I'm trying to understand what you are talking about. What are some of the evils of Waydale to be documented?
Wasn't Waydale critical of TWI? I thought I once actually found the Waydale site pages in a deep web archive search. I didn't book mark it and now can't find it. Maybe I'm misremembering.
Waydale - nothing's ever perfect and we all know that. Waydale had a lot of twists and turns in it's tenure. I would agree in part that as a result of 100's, 1000's of people coming together to discuss their issues, problems, challenges and complaints about the Way and it's activities over many many years in what was unprecedented freedom of discussion there could be negative impacts on some people, in and out. Waydale had no ability to vette or qualify information posted and I myself know of some things that were untrue and heresay and I did have my own debates about things but...the purpose was to give a platform for people to write, to "speak" freely. This did lead to some of the most powerful and meaningful words I've ever read anywhere, about anything.
Waydale was a game changer in the "ex Way" community, for those who had left or been expelled. It wasn't the first online community that dealt specifically with the Way - Trancenet had an ex Way community formed before it and I believe there were other small newsgroup discussions going on, at last I'd seen some, but Waydale was uniquely successful in attracting oldies and newbies alike and become a magnet reconnecting people who hadn't seen or talked to each other for years.
For decades the greater community of those who had left or been kicked out of the Way for whatever reasons had never really been brought together into one place to tell their stories. Enter Paul Allen. He built a professional looking website front end and loaded up the discussion forum using EZ Board. You could register and participate anonymously so there were no fear tactics like the Way had used to smear and destroy reputations of people that disagreed with them. The spark caught and it grew and lit up, literally.
Allen's strategy was very smart - he was legit and had his own life on the table with the lawsuit he had filed. He was also pretty stand up about the whole thing in that he didn't puke all over the internet with rants and raves or the kind of profane blathering that Martindale was known for and proud of. He had a case and he made it and invited others to share their own stories. He wasn't overly complicated either, it was pretty easy to understand where he was coming from.
There were no guarantees that it would grow but it did. And it gave voice to a group of people who were now able to say what they had experienced, good or bad, and discuss and debate all of it with anyone to any extent they wished.
There was a good share of flotsam and jetsam too but - and this was very new to ex Wayfers - it was possible to ask, question, challenge, and do it all in the "open" and each person could draw their own conclusions. It could get nasty, weird, childish, trite, even ignorant.
At first I was a little sketchy about some of the stuff I read, it seemed pretty hateful. Then it sank in - for years the Way had sh it on anyone it wanted to and then told them - "taught" them from the Word - that they were supposed to just accept it and deal with it and "God would still bless them" for "following the Man of God", and did that over and over and over....uh, hell yes, there's going to be some heat coming back off them.
I once had someone message me that "Paul Allen is off the Word! He shouldn't be doing a lawsuit, going outside the Church, he should settle this inside, with the leadership and believers!"
I don't know how long I laughed after reading that but I did respond by asking them "And who do you think he could trust to honestly settle the matter? Craig?"......I never got an answer that I remember but uh, no. And yes, we don't want to be litigious over every hang nail but when it's serious and you're dealing with a group like the Way that makes it's own rules, answers to no external authority and refuses to deal with it unless drug into court, yeah, you use the courts.
I wish you the best Bolshevik and a good life in this one and the next. You deserve it. We all do.
Edited by socks Y eah, th at wo rd. Y es, th at's hit. Th at o n e.
For decades the greater community of those who had left or been kicked out of the Way for whatever reasons had never really been brought together into one place to tell their stories.
And IMO, they had every right to tell their stories.
I was able to visit my grandchildren yesterday. My 9 year old grandson used the expression, "next level technology." I got a kick out of it when he said that. Well, P... A.... used what was, a couple of decades ago, next level technology. A massive amount of good happened as a result of what he did with that technology. I'd be surprised if he had Bolshevik and what happened to him in mind at all when he started Waydale.
Edited by Rocky Important (and hopefully) clarifying edits :)
And IMO, they had every right to tell their stories.
I was able to visit my grandchildren yesterday. My grandson used the expression, "next level technology." Well, P... A.... used what was, a couple of decades ago, next level technology. A massive amount of good happened as a result of what he did with that technology. I'd be surprised if he had you and what happened to you in mind at all when he started Waydale.
Of course they did, I thought I made that clear.
I'm not sure what you're saying happened to me, and being surprised, etc? I pretty much accepted Waydale, per WYSIWYG. Paul Allen never promised anything to anyone, but in doing what he did with Waydale he gave the ex Way universe a grand gift. As I said, IMO it was unprecedented and as you point out, the technology was at a perfect point to use it as he did. It was really a kind of tipping point now that we can look back.
Waydale allowed for "the other" or perhaps arguably "another" side of the story to be told.
Unfortunately that story was filled with a lot of bad things. People do bad things so if that reflected badly on others or closed one door while opening another, in any sense, it's the Way's fault, Martindale's fault for being such a prideful man, ego led and with all the intelligence of a bag of rocks and at his worst a heart of darkness lurking in his twisted machinations. The endless hours of hate filled spew he shoved down the staff and Corps' throats every lunch time and evening meeting created an environment of fear and defeat. They were so internalized as his reign of terror progressed I wouldn't take any negative possibilities off the table. And Allen gave those people and those before them a place for their voice to be heard. Finally. For better or worse, right or wrong, good or bad. The light was on.
I suspect we agree in whole or part, maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part, if so don't worry about it, I won't. I may not be back for a bit but I did feel compelled to chime in on this topic as I know we were part of the Waydale experience.
I suspect we agree in whole or part, maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part,
I was NOT at all disagreeing with any of your points/post. There is only one person on this thread thus far misunderstanding the sociological role of Waydale... and it's certainly not you. I edited the post in question to clarify I was referring to Bolshevik, not you.
This is always true, right? Divorce, war, etc. So, were your parents in a fight with Waydale? You were shot in the crossfire from a fight between Waydale and your parents?
I thought Waydale was an open and free forum in an open and free society. Who is fighting where you are caught in the crossfire? And if Waydale is a forum, how is it a party in a fight? Or did the fight take place on Waydale?
Real questions. I'm not arguing with you. I'm not doubting you. I start with acknowledging that I know next to nothing. I'm just trying to understand what you mean, because what you've said so far is not clear.
I was NOT at all disagreeing with any of your points/post. There is only one person on this thread thus far misunderstanding the sociological role of Waydale... and it's certainly not you. I edited the post in question to clarify I was referring to Bolshevik, not you.
Nevertheless, I and we see you and recognize your concerns. It's just that the multitude of councilors on GSC identify the true source of the cause of your troubles as being not directly caused by Waydale itself.
Perhaps, Bolshevik, if you could explain what happened, and what has so upset you?
As I understand it, in brief: your parents dragged you as a teenager into TWI's clutches, once news of the lawsuit "got out"; you didn't want to have to go and were angry at the forced move; TWI read posts on Waydale that told what had happened to F* Allen and her husband Paul; LCM ranted outrageously about that at HQ, blaming Waydale for "lies," you took those rants personally.
You weren't somehow accused posting those things, were you? Or accused your parents? You said you never posted there.
It might be helpful (if you feel able) to share what happened, what were the circumstances that have so disillusioned you, etc etc.
Bolshevik, you do know that LCM ranted continually, do you? Man, could he rant and rave! Anger management? In spades! Lunchtime "sharings," especially; Corps Nights (2 or 3 hour rant, usually about homosexuals; Sunday morning fellowships. Not so much Sunday night services (too public). Occasionally he'd burst into one of our in-rez training sessions, yell his head off, and threaten to dismiss the entire group and send us all home.
If you were "especially" favored, you could earn your own personal face-melting for some trivial act or omission. Or if he wanted to keep you off balance, he'd look sorrowfully at you and speak very quietly. All so reasonable, y'know. Very manipulative.
I recall one time he hauled me in, was surprisingly restrained, and told me he didn't know why God had so much patience with me when I made so many mistakes and was so disobedient. (I think my sin there was to respond to a male on staff who'd spoken to me - not in my corps group, but someone I'd made casual friends with.)
LCM had serious problems that he blamed everyone else for. His wife was in a lesbian relationship with a woman who continually goaded LCM; Chris Geer was jabbing at him (and the other trustees), wanting LCM's place as Prez; and worst of all, he was bonking Corpswomen, some being other men's wives.
Not surprising that he felt attacked on all sides and very vulnerable.
And not surprising that he took his anger out on those he perceived to be weaker than him, or in any way subservient to him. Like teenagers, and in-rez Corps. Like non-Corps staff members. Like spouse Corps. Like any other human being, actually. That type of behavior is commonly known as "bullying."
And not surprisingly, he also blamed the attacks on him personally, on Waydale.
With his track record, if he didn't attack a person, there was probably something wrong or fishy about that person - or they were the kind of person who was able to bring in a lot of $$ into TWI coffers.
Bolshy one: consider his facemeltings as your badge of honor and personal integrity.
Bolshevik, you do know that LCM ranted continually, do you? Man, could he rant and rave! Anger management? In spades! Lunchtime "sharings," especially; Corps Nights (2 or 3 hour rant, usually about homosexuals; Sunday morning fellowships. Not so much Sunday night services (too public). Occasionally he'd burst into one of our in-rez training sessions, yell his head off, and threaten to dismiss the entire group and send us all home.
If you were "especially" favored, you could earn your own personal face-melting for some trivial act or omission. Or if he wanted to keep you off balance, he'd look sorrowfully at you and speak very quietly. All so reasonable, y'know. Very manipulative.
I recall one time he hauled me in, was surprisingly restrained, and told me he didn't know why God had so much patience with me when I made so many mistakes and was so disobedient. (I think my sin there was to respond to a male on staff who'd spoken to me - not in my corps group, but someone I'd made casual friends with.)
LCM had serious problems that he blamed everyone else for. His wife was in a lesbian relationship with a woman who continually goaded LCM; Chris Geer was jabbing at him (and the other trustees), wanting LCM's place as Prez; and worst of all, he was bonking Corpswomen, some being other men's wives.
Not surprising that he felt attacked on all sides and very vulnerable.
And not surprising that he took his anger out on those he perceived to be weaker than him, or in any way subservient to him. Like teenagers, and in-rez Corps. Like non-Corps staff members. Like spouse Corps. Like any other human being, actually. That type of behavior is commonly known as "bullying."
With his track record, if he didn't attack a person, there was probably something wrong or fishy about that person - or they were the kind of person who was able to bring in a lot of $$ into TWI coffers.
Bolshy one: consider his facemeltings as your badge of honor and personal integrity.
"I recall one time he hauled me in, was surprisingly restrained, and told me he didn't know why God had so much patience with me when I made so many mistakes and was so disobedient. "
VPW used to say things like that and Craig, all the Way bosses who mimicked them like lapdogs would say things like that -
It's such an ungodly false and devilishly untrue statement.
Christ is our intercessor, on the right hand of God and acting continually on our behalf as our intercessor. He's our Redeemer, the captain of our salvation. Grace and mercy are ours through the finished work of Christ. OF COURSE GOD IS PATIENT WITH US, ALL THE TIME. If anything we are thankful that God is patient and with us, every second, every day.
It's so painfully obvious how he valued his own ego and man made religious rules above the Word of God. He could rip and rail on others for breaking a rule but didn't blink an eye on his own adulterous behavior and LYING ABOUT IT EVERY DAY TO THE ENTIRE MINISTRY.
I think it strikes me as so sad because after all these years I'd be thrilled to hear he was doing well, that he'd been able to work with others who helped him.
I had someone send me a link to some online videos of him teaching. He's at it somewhere, wherever, and that dark, gloomy voice of his has gotten even more foreboding. He still can't open his mouth without condemning everyone else and sounding like a prick.
Patience? He's certainly benefitting from it himself.
It's such an ungodly false and devilishly untrue statement.
TRUTH!
Tragically, it was something Vic and Loy and lesser minions/wannabes figured was the will of God. That is how EVIL became a major influence in the unwritten mores of TWI.
I think it strikes me as so sad because after all these years I'd be thrilled to hear he was doing well, that he'd been able to work with others who helped him.
Assuming you mean, those who helped him come to terms with his own behavior and to realise how wicked he'd been, and how badly he had damaged so many lives - yes, I'd agree with you. There's a standing invitation to him to come here and apologize.
Sadly, I don't see that happening any time. Ever. He probably thinks he was "picked on" in some way, is faultless, and "the adversary" is out to get him. His biggest adversary is himself. His ego, and that part of him that should be safely behind a zipper.
But denigrating LCM doesn't help Bolshy. I wonder what we can say, that will help Bolshevik?
Perhaps the work of Professor Susan David might be helpful to you.
From Goodreads:
The path to fulfillment, whether at work or at home, is almost never a straight line. Ask anyone who has achieved their biggest goals or who thrives in their relationships, and you’ll hear stories of many unexpected detours along the way. What separates those who rise to these challenges and those who get derailed? The answer is agility—emotional agility.
Not from Goodreads, on Saturday, I visited my daughter and grandchildren. In what I attribute both to misunderstanding (on both my daughter's part and mine) and apparent mood issue, I endured a minor face melting from her. I took it in stride and didn't lash out, but it still caused me anxiety which is only today beginning to subside. I hope whatever feelings you endure because of your experience w/Waydale can subside sooner rather than later.
Susan David also has a few (at least) videos on YouTube:
And yeah, some folks had plans and tried to be crafty. Some folks just let me have it until I broke down.
Mind you, I hated fellowship. I was hiding from that too.
That sucks. You have had a tough way to go. Ive never quite understood how people who call themselves Christian can target an individual and break them down. Which makes sense, because there is nothing Christ like with this behavior and of course Christianity gets the blame. And it's exmaples like yours that shows that TWI is an abusive cult because the behaviour you call out is common in the ranks of the way corps and a lot of AC grads to garden variety followers of TWI. Not the first time I have seen someone targeted in my time in TWI so know that you aren't the only one and it is a common practice with these yay whos.
Waydale was the instrument that took down the 2nd president. Paul Allen acted with integrity in the face of a situation where a man with power was stealing his wife. He struck back with public opinion and the law in the face of shunning and slander and libel.
But this wasn’t the only husband faced with the issue. Linder was constantly armed and protecting him from the fear he had inside of a husband retaliating for his sexual escapades. He learned this behavior from the first president, well documented in his first publication that is only read by Way Corps. There is a huge bootie kissing journal where he talks about VPW telling him he had to loosen up in these categories or he would never be an effective leader.
This was a Baptist Young Life young athlete. They don’t do sexcapades.
So what happened? The 3rd president stole his wife in a lesbian relationship then ousted him from power.
Then came 2 decades of a schoolteacher hiding lesbian relationships and crushing all perceived paranoid opposition. Even ruining another president then yanking it back with her paranoid succession plan.
Now there is a 4th or 5th president depending on how you count. His first act was to kill opposition in a Machiavellian way by marking and avoiding the RNR folks. Next sending billbo the moral hobbit down to mark and avoid some more people they never met.
Then he got his son established in power though by having a pharmacist now called Dr. reteach the foundational class. smooth move just like your father in the word.
Moral midgets targeting others with slander and libel and planning a power move. Makes me physically sick to my stomach.
Back to Paul Allen. One other guy faced with the same situation as Paul caved in to the pressure and committed suicide. The wife of the guy who committed suicide is remarried and in a leadership position in the Way. See how they clean up messes?
Assuming you mean, those who helped him come to terms with his own behavior and to realise how wicked he'd been, and how badly he had damaged so many lives - yes, I'd agree with you. There's a standing invitation to him to come here and apologize.
Sadly, I don't see that happening any time. Ever. He probably thinks he was "picked on" in some way, is faultless, and "the adversary" is out to get him. His biggest adversary is himself. His ego, and that part of him that should be safely behind a zipper.
But denigrating LCM doesn't help Bolshy. I wonder what we can say, that will help Bolshevik?
I'm not denigrating him. That means to criticize unfairly.
I'm not being unfair. I'm being clear, and for someone with the potential for verbosity that I have, pretty concise.
I'm also being honest, as far as I'm concerned because a person can't understand how and why the Way Inc. went the way it did without understanding how horribly bad he performed as President of the Way Inc. in both his personal and private lives.
I can say something that will help Bolshy - if he'd like help with a specific set of circumstance he has encountered he'll need to say what it is, clearly. Till then I just wish him the best with whatever it is or was that's bugging him because it's largely academic without specificity.
And he could do that here with a degree of anonymity, and it could be discussed openly. Just as Waydale allowed. And if others take exception or use the information for evil it'll be a repeat of what seems to have happened before, if I'm reading right. I guess. Hard to say.
Edited by socks I've done this because, philosophically, I am sympathetic to your aim.
Back to Paul Allen. One other guy faced with the same situation as Paul caved in to the pressure and committed suicide. The wife of the guy who committed suicide is remarried and in a leadership position in the Way. See how they clean up messes?
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engine
I left in 1986 and stumbled onto Waydale around 1999 perhaps. I spoke to Paul Allen one time, too. He was calmly furious at twi and determined to push them as far as he could. IMO, it was becaus
Nathan_Jr
Aha! Yep. That's it. That's what I remember seeing. Nice work, OldSkool!
chockfull
Because it denotes a person in a position of trust relationship like a judge or a therapist. It describes the betrayal of the trust that society normally places in a person with those credentials.
Bolshevik
Big folks have fight.
Little folks shot in crossfire.
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chockfull
The story of 100% of all the purges in the Way over the years. Crossfire hits more people than regular fire.
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socks
Waydale - nothing's ever perfect and we all know that. Waydale had a lot of twists and turns in it's tenure. I would agree in part that as a result of 100's, 1000's of people coming together to discuss their issues, problems, challenges and complaints about the Way and it's activities over many many years in what was unprecedented freedom of discussion there could be negative impacts on some people, in and out. Waydale had no ability to vette or qualify information posted and I myself know of some things that were untrue and heresay and I did have my own debates about things but...the purpose was to give a platform for people to write, to "speak" freely. This did lead to some of the most powerful and meaningful words I've ever read anywhere, about anything.
Waydale was a game changer in the "ex Way" community, for those who had left or been expelled. It wasn't the first online community that dealt specifically with the Way - Trancenet had an ex Way community formed before it and I believe there were other small newsgroup discussions going on, at last I'd seen some, but Waydale was uniquely successful in attracting oldies and newbies alike and become a magnet reconnecting people who hadn't seen or talked to each other for years.
For decades the greater community of those who had left or been kicked out of the Way for whatever reasons had never really been brought together into one place to tell their stories. Enter Paul Allen. He built a professional looking website front end and loaded up the discussion forum using EZ Board. You could register and participate anonymously so there were no fear tactics like the Way had used to smear and destroy reputations of people that disagreed with them. The spark caught and it grew and lit up, literally.
Allen's strategy was very smart - he was legit and had his own life on the table with the lawsuit he had filed. He was also pretty stand up about the whole thing in that he didn't puke all over the internet with rants and raves or the kind of profane blathering that Martindale was known for and proud of. He had a case and he made it and invited others to share their own stories. He wasn't overly complicated either, it was pretty easy to understand where he was coming from.
There were no guarantees that it would grow but it did. And it gave voice to a group of people who were now able to say what they had experienced, good or bad, and discuss and debate all of it with anyone to any extent they wished.
There was a good share of flotsam and jetsam too but - and this was very new to ex Wayfers - it was possible to ask, question, challenge, and do it all in the "open" and each person could draw their own conclusions. It could get nasty, weird, childish, trite, even ignorant.
At first I was a little sketchy about some of the stuff I read, it seemed pretty hateful. Then it sank in - for years the Way had sh it on anyone it wanted to and then told them - "taught" them from the Word - that they were supposed to just accept it and deal with it and "God would still bless them" for "following the Man of God", and did that over and over and over....uh, hell yes, there's going to be some heat coming back off them.
I once had someone message me that "Paul Allen is off the Word! He shouldn't be doing a lawsuit, going outside the Church, he should settle this inside, with the leadership and believers!"
I don't know how long I laughed after reading that but I did respond by asking them "And who do you think he could trust to honestly settle the matter? Craig?"......I never got an answer that I remember but uh, no. And yes, we don't want to be litigious over every hang nail but when it's serious and you're dealing with a group like the Way that makes it's own rules, answers to no external authority and refuses to deal with it unless drug into court, yeah, you use the courts.
I wish you the best Bolshevik and a good life in this one and the next. You deserve it. We all do.
Edited by socksY eah, th at wo rd. Y es, th at's hit. Th at o n e.
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Rocky
You haven't made a case for how Waydale had anything to do with that.
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Rocky
You haven't made an argument that communicates how Waydale intended to block escape routes or prevented you from building a life separate from twi.
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Rocky
IOW, you believe you were collateral damage.
If so, it seems to be a result of something outside the intentions of Waydale.
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Rocky
And IMO, they had every right to tell their stories.
Edited by RockyI was able to visit my grandchildren yesterday. My 9 year old grandson used the expression, "next level technology." I got a kick out of it when he said that. Well, P... A.... used what was, a couple of decades ago, next level technology. A massive amount of good happened as a result of what he did with that technology. I'd be surprised if he had Bolshevik and what happened to him in mind at all when he started Waydale.
Important (and hopefully) clarifying edits :)
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socks
Of course they did, I thought I made that clear.
I'm not sure what you're saying happened to me, and being surprised, etc? I pretty much accepted Waydale, per WYSIWYG. Paul Allen never promised anything to anyone, but in doing what he did with Waydale he gave the ex Way universe a grand gift. As I said, IMO it was unprecedented and as you point out, the technology was at a perfect point to use it as he did. It was really a kind of tipping point now that we can look back.
Waydale allowed for "the other" or perhaps arguably "another" side of the story to be told.
Unfortunately that story was filled with a lot of bad things. People do bad things so if that reflected badly on others or closed one door while opening another, in any sense, it's the Way's fault, Martindale's fault for being such a prideful man, ego led and with all the intelligence of a bag of rocks and at his worst a heart of darkness lurking in his twisted machinations. The endless hours of hate filled spew he shoved down the staff and Corps' throats every lunch time and evening meeting created an environment of fear and defeat. They were so internalized as his reign of terror progressed I wouldn't take any negative possibilities off the table. And Allen gave those people and those before them a place for their voice to be heard. Finally. For better or worse, right or wrong, good or bad. The light was on.
I suspect we agree in whole or part, maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part, if so don't worry about it, I won't. I may not be back for a bit but I did feel compelled to chime in on this topic as I know we were part of the Waydale experience.
PEACE! n LOVE!
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Rocky
I was NOT at all disagreeing with any of your points/post. There is only one person on this thread thus far misunderstanding the sociological role of Waydale... and it's certainly not you. I edited the post in question to clarify I was referring to Bolshevik, not you.
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Nathan_Jr
Thanks.
This is always true, right? Divorce, war, etc. So, were your parents in a fight with Waydale? You were shot in the crossfire from a fight between Waydale and your parents?
I thought Waydale was an open and free forum in an open and free society. Who is fighting where you are caught in the crossfire? And if Waydale is a forum, how is it a party in a fight? Or did the fight take place on Waydale?
Real questions. I'm not arguing with you. I'm not doubting you. I start with acknowledging that I know next to nothing. I'm just trying to understand what you mean, because what you've said so far is not clear.
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socks
Hi There! Thanks, I get it now.
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Rocky
Maybe. Maybe not.
Edited by RockyNevertheless, I and we see you and recognize your concerns. It's just that the multitude of councilors on GSC identify the true source of the cause of your troubles as being not directly caused by Waydale itself.
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Twinky
Perhaps, Bolshevik, if you could explain what happened, and what has so upset you?
As I understand it, in brief: your parents dragged you as a teenager into TWI's clutches, once news of the lawsuit "got out"; you didn't want to have to go and were angry at the forced move; TWI read posts on Waydale that told what had happened to F* Allen and her husband Paul; LCM ranted outrageously about that at HQ, blaming Waydale for "lies," you took those rants personally.
You weren't somehow accused posting those things, were you? Or accused your parents? You said you never posted there.
It might be helpful (if you feel able) to share what happened, what were the circumstances that have so disillusioned you, etc etc.
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Twinky
Bolshevik, you do know that LCM ranted continually, do you? Man, could he rant and rave! Anger management? In spades! Lunchtime "sharings," especially; Corps Nights (2 or 3 hour rant, usually about homosexuals; Sunday morning fellowships.
Not so much Sunday night services (too public). Occasionally he'd burst into one of our in-rez training sessions, yell his head off, and threaten to dismiss the entire group and send us all home.
If you were "especially" favored, you could earn your own personal face-melting for some trivial act or omission.
Or if he wanted to keep you off balance, he'd look sorrowfully at you and speak very quietly. All so reasonable, y'know. Very manipulative.
I recall one time he hauled me in, was surprisingly restrained, and told me he didn't know why God had so much patience with me when I made so many mistakes and was so disobedient. (I think my sin there was to respond to a male on staff who'd spoken to me - not in my corps group, but someone I'd made casual friends with.)
LCM had serious problems that he blamed everyone else for. His wife was in a lesbian relationship with a woman who continually goaded LCM; Chris Geer was jabbing at him (and the other trustees), wanting LCM's place as Prez; and worst of all, he was bonking Corpswomen, some being other men's wives.
Not surprising that he felt attacked on all sides and very vulnerable.
And not surprising that he took his anger out on those he perceived to be weaker than him, or in any way subservient to him. Like teenagers, and in-rez Corps. Like non-Corps staff members. Like spouse Corps. Like any other human being, actually. That type of behavior is commonly known as "bullying."
And not surprisingly, he also blamed the attacks on him personally, on Waydale.
With his track record, if he didn't attack a person, there was probably something wrong or fishy about that person - or they were the kind of person who was able to bring in a lot of $$ into TWI coffers.
Bolshy one: consider his facemeltings as your badge of honor and personal integrity.
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socks
"I recall one time he hauled me in, was surprisingly restrained, and told me he didn't know why God had so much patience with me when I made so many mistakes and was so disobedient. "
VPW used to say things like that and Craig, all the Way bosses who mimicked them like lapdogs would say things like that -
It's such an ungodly false and devilishly untrue statement.
Christ is our intercessor, on the right hand of God and acting continually on our behalf as our intercessor. He's our Redeemer, the captain of our salvation. Grace and mercy are ours through the finished work of Christ. OF COURSE GOD IS PATIENT WITH US, ALL THE TIME. If anything we are thankful that God is patient and with us, every second, every day.
It's so painfully obvious how he valued his own ego and man made religious rules above the Word of God. He could rip and rail on others for breaking a rule but didn't blink an eye on his own adulterous behavior and LYING ABOUT IT EVERY DAY TO THE ENTIRE MINISTRY.
I think it strikes me as so sad because after all these years I'd be thrilled to hear he was doing well, that he'd been able to work with others who helped him.
I had someone send me a link to some online videos of him teaching. He's at it somewhere, wherever, and that dark, gloomy voice of his has gotten even more foreboding. He still can't open his mouth without condemning everyone else and sounding like a prick.
Patience? He's certainly benefitting from it himself.
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Rocky
TRUTH!
Tragically, it was something Vic and Loy and lesser minions/wannabes figured was the will of God. That is how EVIL became a major influence in the unwritten mores of TWI.
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Twinky
Assuming you mean, those who helped him come to terms with his own behavior and to realise how wicked he'd been, and how badly he had damaged so many lives - yes, I'd agree with you. There's a standing invitation to him to come here and apologize.
Sadly, I don't see that happening any time. Ever. He probably thinks he was "picked on" in some way, is faultless, and "the adversary" is out to get him. His biggest adversary is himself. His ego, and that part of him that should be safely behind a zipper.
But denigrating LCM doesn't help Bolshy. I wonder what we can say, that will help Bolshevik?
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Rocky
Perhaps the work of Professor Susan David might be helpful to you.
From Goodreads:
The path to fulfillment, whether at work or at home, is almost never a straight line. Ask anyone who has achieved their biggest goals or who thrives in their relationships, and you’ll hear stories of many unexpected detours along the way. What separates those who rise to these challenges and those who get derailed? The answer is agility—emotional agility.
Not from Goodreads, on Saturday, I visited my daughter and grandchildren. In what I attribute both to misunderstanding (on both my daughter's part and mine) and apparent mood issue, I endured a minor face melting from her. I took it in stride and didn't lash out, but it still caused me anxiety which is only today beginning to subside. I hope whatever feelings you endure because of your experience w/Waydale can subside sooner rather than later.
Susan David also has a few (at least) videos on YouTube:
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OldSkool
That sucks. You have had a tough way to go. Ive never quite understood how people who call themselves Christian can target an individual and break them down. Which makes sense, because there is nothing Christ like with this behavior and of course Christianity gets the blame. And it's exmaples like yours that shows that TWI is an abusive cult because the behaviour you call out is common in the ranks of the way corps and a lot of AC grads to garden variety followers of TWI. Not the first time I have seen someone targeted in my time in TWI so know that you aren't the only one and it is a common practice with these yay whos.
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chockfull
Waydale was the instrument that took down the 2nd president. Paul Allen acted with integrity in the face of a situation where a man with power was stealing his wife. He struck back with public opinion and the law in the face of shunning and slander and libel.
But this wasn’t the only husband faced with the issue. Linder was constantly armed and protecting him from the fear he had inside of a husband retaliating for his sexual escapades. He learned this behavior from the first president, well documented in his first publication that is only read by Way Corps. There is a huge bootie kissing journal where he talks about VPW telling him he had to loosen up in these categories or he would never be an effective leader.
This was a Baptist Young Life young athlete. They don’t do sexcapades.
So what happened? The 3rd president stole his wife in a lesbian relationship then ousted him from power.
Then came 2 decades of a schoolteacher hiding lesbian relationships and crushing all perceived paranoid opposition. Even ruining another president then yanking it back with her paranoid succession plan.
Now there is a 4th or 5th president depending on how you count. His first act was to kill opposition in a Machiavellian way by marking and avoiding the RNR folks. Next sending billbo the moral hobbit down to mark and avoid some more people they never met.
Then he got his son established in power though by having a pharmacist now called Dr. reteach the foundational class. smooth move just like your father in the word.
Moral midgets targeting others with slander and libel and planning a power move. Makes me physically sick to my stomach.
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chockfull
Back to Paul Allen. One other guy faced with the same situation as Paul caved in to the pressure and committed suicide. The wife of the guy who committed suicide is remarried and in a leadership position in the Way. See how they clean up messes?
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socks
I'm not denigrating him. That means to criticize unfairly.
I'm not being unfair. I'm being clear, and for someone with the potential for verbosity that I have, pretty concise.
I'm also being honest, as far as I'm concerned because a person can't understand how and why the Way Inc. went the way it did without understanding how horribly bad he performed as President of the Way Inc. in both his personal and private lives.
I can say something that will help Bolshy - if he'd like help with a specific set of circumstance he has encountered he'll need to say what it is, clearly. Till then I just wish him the best with whatever it is or was that's bugging him because it's largely academic without specificity.
And he could do that here with a degree of anonymity, and it could be discussed openly. Just as Waydale allowed. And if others take exception or use the information for evil it'll be a repeat of what seems to have happened before, if I'm reading right. I guess. Hard to say.
Edited by socksI've done this because, philosophically, I am sympathetic to your aim.
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Rocky
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oldiesman
T** Mit*****?
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