Being so damn sure of knowing what's right about God, or any related spiritual matter
This thread is very, very good. So much nuance and texture and depth. I'm still working my way through it. Lots of excellent insight by all contributing. And excellent books!
So many quotable points by all in this thread, but I'll start with this one. It's one of the deepest roots of the illness, the blindness, the dulled perception and blunted awareness. The one who claims to have the Truth, surely is the one who doesn't.
Jerk is euphemistic.
Getting taught. Always getting taught. Such a fetish for teaching and getting taught, indoctrinated, dulled by repetition.
There is no vitality in imitation.
Again, so much in this thread. Thanks to all contributing here.
Edited by Nathan_Jr My music coordinator can beat up your music coordinator.
Yes, absolutely "jerk" is a euphemism. A fitting one, I believe.
A necessary one... a$$hole is censored here.
Somehow this is connected to "I have no friends when it comes to the word." (Please correct me, if that quote is inaccurate.) That was one of many, many strange or deceptive phrases vic held forth with in "the class" that jerked me out of the trance. At the time, I wondered: What in TAF does THAT mean?
Or when my Corps grad twig leader held forth on his WOW year in Rhode Island (c.1980). He and his wife sold exactly ZERO classes.... because everyone in their town was a jerk.
Only a jerk, an immature a$$hole, would say or think these things.
Edited by Nathan_Jr The music coordinator wears fingerless latex gloves.
Somehow this is connected to "I have no friends when it comes to the word." (Please correct me, if that quote is inaccurate.) That was one of many, many strange or deceptive phrases vic held forth with in "the class" that jerked me out of the trance. At the time, I wondered: What in TAF does THAT mean?
Or when my Corps grad twig leader held forth on his WOW year in Rhode Island (c.1980). He and his wife sold exactly ZERO classes.... because everyone in their town was a jerk.
Only a jerk, an immature a$$hole, would say or think these things.
Well, it's been close to 40 (well, at least 36) years since I last heard Victor's voice (other than on youtube), but that quote sounds accurate.
His intended meaning, I now guess, goes to the concept of leadership. Leading can be a lonely journey because leaders do not always garner followers immediately.
OTOH, it also shows that his empathy deficit and may have been one of the earliest manifestations of his design foundation for a subculture built on "I'm right and f... you if you don't agree." Or, put in terms a bit less stark, perhaps you don't belong in our household/cult.
Then I saw this two minute clip which I found salient, from 1959. That was the year I first started kindergarten. I remember making potholders and having a crush on a classmate named Mary that year... and also that I liked to dress up as Eliot Ness from the Untouchables. But I digress, because my early memories aren't the subject of the clip.
His intended meaning, I now guess, goes to the concept of leadership. Leading can be a lonely journey because leaders do not always garner followers immediately.
Maybe, but Im not convinced of this right now. Is leadership a lonely journey? Does a true leader have FOLLOWERS, aka zombies, sheep? Is this leadership? Or if a leader doesn't have followers yet, is he a leader at all? Who is he leading during this lonely time? Probably deserves it's own thread, if one doesn't yet exist
39 minutes ago, Rocky said:
OTOH, it also shows that his empathy deficit and may have been one of the earliest manifestations of his design foundation for a subculture built on "I'm right and f... you if you don't agree." Or, put in terms a bit less stark, perhaps you don't belong in our household/cult.
I like this phrase. (Keltner's?) A marker of narcissism.
There seems to be a subtle shade of deep insecurity underlying the fetishized ideas of leading and teaching in TWI. An insecure, desperate need to be liked and accepted and validated, but hedged by the cop out of "having no friends when it comes to the word." FU, I'm right, you're wrong, says the pouting, lonely, self-absorbed child.
Yes, Keltner's. Part of his power principles categorized as abuse of power.
There's plenty of literature on leadership, here's just one example.
Quote
Prof. Warren G. Bennis, the founding chairman of the University of Southern California’s Leadership Institute takes upon a monologue in Shakespeare’s play As you like it, to describe the different phases of the leader in his intriguing essay “the seven ages of the leader”. Bennis starts his essay by saying: “Each stage of leadership brings new crisis and challenges. They’re wrenching, but knowing what to expect can help you get through them.”
It's really okay if you don't, agree with the idea at this point. I'm just presenting it, not demanding anyone agree with it.
Then I saw this two minute clip which I found salient, from 1959. That was the year I first started kindergarten. I remember making potholders and having a crush on a classmate named Mary that year... and also that I liked to dress up as Eliot Ness from the Untouchables. But I digress, because my early memories aren't the subject of the clip.
Oh, Bertrand!
And this, from his Free Thought and Official Propaganda:
"What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is its exact opposite."
by whom? My newswriting professor drilled into my head to never use passive voice. In this case, we surmise but Russell doesn't spell out the answer.
It was drilled into me, too, by my professors and Strunk and White. But I think passive voice is tolerated in scientific and philosophical writing.
You've read this little book, or long essay, or pamphlet, right? I thought you recommended it here last year or earlier. It's all about why and how we BELEEEVE and why and how belief can be so dangerous.
Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the “power corrupts” idea…power from internet definitions: the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality; the capacity or ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events; physical strength and force exerted by something or someone.
Relating to this thread – the power of a harmful and controlling cult like TWI was their ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events. It was an abuse of power…In the leadership…in the military style hierarchy power structure…and even in just the culture of TWI there was both overt and covert “channels” of control that facilitated me becoming the "best jerk" I could be…sometimes I was aware of how obvious it was…but not usually…like how the Moon has influence on our tides. I can look up to acknowledge the Moon is there – but whether or not I do – its influence on the tides is not diminished by me being unaware of its power.
it’s been said knowledge is power (see Wikipedia: knowledge is power ) and among other things, that made me think of the internet. And that got me thinking of websites like TransChat, Waydale and Grease Spot Café – having information that empowered people to achieve something many cult-leaders may have thought impossible - – escape the clutches of a harmful and controlling cult.
But
knowledge as power can be a double-edged sword, in that it can be abused – the glut of disinformation – (a subset of propaganda…which is intended to cause harm) and misinformation which falls under the classification of free speech (no harm was intended) on the internet and social media.
Below is something I found on “power corrupts”: What's the meaning of the phrase 'Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely'?
The proverbial saying 'power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely' conveys the opinion that, as a person's power increases, their moral sense diminishes.
Origin - the short version: "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" is the best known quotation of the 19th century British politician Lord Acton. He borrowed the idea from several other writers who had previously expressed the same thought in different words.
Origin – the full story: Absolute monarchies are those in which all power is given to or, as is more often the case, taken by, the monarch. Examples of absolute power having a corrupting influence are Roman emperors (who declared themselves gods) and Napoleon Bonaparte (who declared himself an emperor)…
…"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" arose as part of a quotation by the expansively named and impressively hirsute John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902).
The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
The text is a favourite of collectors of quotations and is always included in anthologies. If you are looking for the exact "power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" wording, then Acton is your man. He coined the phrase but he didn't invent the idea; quotations very like it had been uttered by several authors well before 1887.
Primary amongst them was another English politician with no shortage of names - William Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham and British Prime Minister from 1766 to 1778. Pitt said something similar in a speech to the UK House of Lords in 1770:
"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"
…Acton is likely to have taken his lead from the writings of the French republican poet and politician, again a generously titled individual - Alphonse Marie Louis de Prat de Lamartine. An English translation of Lamartine's essay France and England: a Vision of the Future was published in London in 1848 and included this text.
It is not only the slave or serf who is ameliorated in becoming free. The master himself did not gain less in every point of view, for absolute power corrupts the best natures.
Whether it is Lamartine or his anonymous English translator who can claim to have coined 'absolute power corrupts' we can't be sure. What we can be sure about is that it came before Lord Acton's more famous version. Whether Acton was aware of Lamartine's essay we can't now tell.
Conclusion:
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" is one of the proverbial sayings that seems to be proved correct by experience of people's actual behaviour.
From: Phrases.org.uk: absolute power corrupts absolutely
~ ~ ~ ~
To repeat a key phrase from the above excerpt “The proverbial saying 'power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely' conveys the opinion that, as a person's power increases, their moral sense diminishes” got me thinking - not just about cult-leaders but also cult-followers and the mix of the human condition and the influence of a cult.
Yes, in TWI we were taught to be jerks…but to what degree we each individually became a jerk probably depended on a number of things – one’s individual psychological make up, social needs, ambitions, etc.…as I expressed in an earlier post, I tended to be a real jerk to anyone who wasn’t interested in PFAL or wasn’t keen on TWI’s current agenda – which on the TWI- values scale is small potatoes – even though it violates the two great commandments big time (God's values scale) …but for someone who is very ambitious and really likes to bully and control others, hooking up with TWI was like a marriage made in heaven.
I tended to be a real jerk to anyone who wasn’t interested in PFAL or wasn’t keen on TWI’s current agenda
T-Bone - Excellent treatment on the provenance of the phrase "Power corrupts." (I always appreciate the granularity.)
Your quote above was my experience with the local father in da word when I asked serious questions from a place of genuine, humble yearning to find out. The authentic love and charity I manifested unto all (without exception) in the fellowship was dismissed as counterfeit when I challenged the opinionated claim that victor researched diligently for 18 hours a day so I wouldn't have to. I pointed to Bullinger's as the real work, but not in a gotcha way; rather, surely you meant to give credit where it's due?
This kind of power that passive-aggressively asserts "it's true even if you don't believe it" comes from a place of deep insecurity, embarrassment and phony posturing.
The Jerk is taught up and formed from one mold. Varying sizes, sure, but the same cookie-cutter. Victor machined the mold
You've read this little book, or long essay, or pamphlet, right? I thought you recommended it here last year or earlier. It's all about why and how we BELEEEVE and why and how belief can be so dangerous.
Yes, I believe I did.
7 hours ago, T-Bone said:
Relating to this thread – the power of a harmful and controlling cult like TWI was their ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events. It was an abuse of power…
Yes, it was at the time we experienced it. Who knows (the Shadow probably knows whether it still does?), but even if the cult doesn't abuse its power so egregiously these days, it's still built on false concepts of godliness. IOW, the people in it might try to be nicer and less abusive in particular, but there are limits.
Anyway, abuse of power, as Keltner argues, which is what "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," is about, is based on the 16th century conception of power [Machiavelli] as something that is to be grabbed. But anymore ethical/moral organizations recognize that power is given, not grabbed. Given by the followers, not grabbed or asserted by the rulers.
That would comport more closely with he who would be the greatest among you must be the least/lowest.
Quote
Matt 20:26 ...whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant...
Anyway, I appreciate both of you, Nathan and T-Bone.
Also, if you'd like, I presented a similar theme in my recent (this evening) post on my blog. But I did so in a political context, so I will not put the link here. You may, if interested, either do an internet search or send me a private message and I will be happy to give you the link.
However, without the political context, and more directly related to TWI and any other cult or religious group, the bottom-line is compliance is voluntary, but defiance brings consequences that followers (as I am confident you and most, if not all GSC readers), know already includes harsh penalties such as ostracism, i.e. Mark and Avoid (which might, by now, be a registered trademark of The Way Corporation) and public shaming.
knowledge as power can be a double-edged sword, in that it can be abused – the glut of disinformation – (a subset of propaganda…which is intended to cause harm) and misinformation which falls under the classification of free speech (no harm was intended) on the internet and social media.
Very true. We experienced a glut of disinformation in TWI that we were ill-prepared to cope with by use of critical thinking and analysis. That was the "genius" of Victor's PFLAP class. In said class, more that teaching us how to make God's Word our own, he conned us into making him our guru. A guru we referred to as The Teacher, and more "affectionately" as our Father in the Word. It was all bull$hit. We can grasp that now based on decades of re-evaluating a whole lot of the content and our experiences inside the cult and the corps(e) and since then, having to cope with real life.
Real life that included marriages, families and children, which for me included a LOT of hard knocks. I am thankful to be a survivor, in spite of my lame efforts to incorporate bad biblical teaching and anachronistic social values.
A jerk is a mean, rude, selfish, arrogant, inconsiderate, snooty, pushy, uncaring, narcissistic, manipulative, self-centered, holier-than-thou, egotistical and good-for-nothing individual who treats people with disrespect…The way they behave makes others feel as though they are being belittled…Needless to say, nobody likes a person who is a jerk and/or a bully.
Matthew 7:16
Jerks are among the fruits produced from being taught up by and conforming to the dogmatic doctrines of VPW and TWI.
Those here who are no longer jerks are proof that you can, indeed, go beyond what you were taught.
Edited by Nathan_Jr A music coordinator, an A/V guy, and a charlatan walk into a bar...
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WordWolf
One thing about mathematics is that it is not studied in the real world, it's studied in the imaginary world of numbers. (Don't believe me? Then demonstrate the square root of negative 1.) Physic
Raf
I think they trained us to be jerks by example, but I think it could have been avoided. I did not agree with everything everyone taught, but I respected the hell out of a lot of these Corps trained "j
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Rocky
Oh myy! Not that I had anything to do with blaming you, but sorry.
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Bolshevik
It is my understanding Paul Allen was part of a cult?
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Rocky
Now you seem to be derailing the thread.
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Bolshevik
If information is power, so is the internet. I thought that is a point you made about knowledge being power.
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Bolshevik
And power makes jerks according to this thread.
Waydale is a jerk.
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Nathan_Jr
This thread is very, very good. So much nuance and texture and depth. I'm still working my way through it. Lots of excellent insight by all contributing. And excellent books!
So many quotable points by all in this thread, but I'll start with this one. It's one of the deepest roots of the illness, the blindness, the dulled perception and blunted awareness. The one who claims to have the Truth, surely is the one who doesn't.
Jerk is euphemistic.
Getting taught. Always getting taught. Such a fetish for teaching and getting taught, indoctrinated, dulled by repetition.
There is no vitality in imitation.
Again, so much in this thread. Thanks to all contributing here.
Edited by Nathan_JrMy music coordinator can beat up your music coordinator.
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Rocky
Fine, even though it's not a person. However, Let's not get into insulting (here) a person who had a LOT to do with the genesis of GSC.
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Rocky
Yes, absolutely "jerk" is a euphemism. A fitting one, I believe.
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Nathan_Jr
A necessary one... a$$hole is censored here.
Somehow this is connected to "I have no friends when it comes to the word." (Please correct me, if that quote is inaccurate.) That was one of many, many strange or deceptive phrases vic held forth with in "the class" that jerked me out of the trance. At the time, I wondered: What in TAF does THAT mean?
Or when my Corps grad twig leader held forth on his WOW year in Rhode Island (c.1980). He and his wife sold exactly ZERO classes.... because everyone in their town was a jerk.
Only a jerk, an immature a$$hole, would say or think these things.
Edited by Nathan_JrThe music coordinator wears fingerless latex gloves.
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Rocky
Well, it's been close to 40 (well, at least 36) years since I last heard Victor's voice (other than on youtube), but that quote sounds accurate.
Edited by RockyHis intended meaning, I now guess, goes to the concept of leadership. Leading can be a lonely journey because leaders do not always garner followers immediately.
OTOH, it also shows that his empathy deficit and may have been one of the earliest manifestations of his design foundation for a subculture built on "I'm right and f... you if you don't agree." Or, put in terms a bit less stark, perhaps you don't belong in our household/cult.
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Rocky
This video talks about conformity. Which relates to "I have no friends when it comes to the Word..."
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Rocky
Then I saw this two minute clip which I found salient, from 1959. That was the year I first started kindergarten. I remember making potholders and having a crush on a classmate named Mary that year... and also that I liked to dress up as Eliot Ness from the Untouchables. But I digress, because my early memories aren't the subject of the clip.
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Nathan_Jr
Maybe, but Im not convinced of this right now. Is leadership a lonely journey? Does a true leader have FOLLOWERS, aka zombies, sheep? Is this leadership? Or if a leader doesn't have followers yet, is he a leader at all? Who is he leading during this lonely time? Probably deserves it's own thread, if one doesn't yet exist
I like this phrase. (Keltner's?) A marker of narcissism.
There seems to be a subtle shade of deep insecurity underlying the fetishized ideas of leading and teaching in TWI. An insecure, desperate need to be liked and accepted and validated, but hedged by the cop out of "having no friends when it comes to the word." FU, I'm right, you're wrong, says the pouting, lonely, self-absorbed child.
Edited by Nathan_JrLink to comment
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Rocky
Yes, Keltner's. Part of his power principles categorized as abuse of power.
There's plenty of literature on leadership, here's just one example.
It's really okay if you don't, agree with the idea at this point. I'm just presenting it, not demanding anyone agree with it.
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Nathan_Jr
Oh, Bertrand!
And this, from his Free Thought and Official Propaganda:
"What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is its exact opposite."
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Rocky
by whom? My newswriting professor drilled into my head to never use passive voice. In this case, we surmise but Russell doesn't spell out the answer.
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Nathan_Jr
It was drilled into me, too, by my professors and Strunk and White. But I think passive voice is tolerated in scientific and philosophical writing.
You've read this little book, or long essay, or pamphlet, right? I thought you recommended it here last year or earlier. It's all about why and how we BELEEEVE and why and how belief can be so dangerous.
Edited by Nathan_JrT7TMOG
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T-Bone
Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the “power corrupts” idea…power from internet definitions: the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality; the capacity or ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events; physical strength and force exerted by something or someone.
Relating to this thread – the power of a harmful and controlling cult like TWI was their ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events. It was an abuse of power…In the leadership…in the military style hierarchy power structure…and even in just the culture of TWI there was both overt and covert “channels” of control that facilitated me becoming the "best jerk" I could be…sometimes I was aware of how obvious it was…but not usually…like how the Moon has influence on our tides. I can look up to acknowledge the Moon is there – but whether or not I do – its influence on the tides is not diminished by me being unaware of its power.
it’s been said knowledge is power (see Wikipedia: knowledge is power ) and among other things, that made me think of the internet. And that got me thinking of websites like TransChat, Waydale and Grease Spot Café – having information that empowered people to achieve something many cult-leaders may have thought impossible - – escape the clutches of a harmful and controlling cult.
But
knowledge as power can be a double-edged sword, in that it can be abused – the glut of disinformation – (a subset of propaganda…which is intended to cause harm) and misinformation which falls under the classification of free speech (no harm was intended) on the internet and social media.
Below is something I found on “power corrupts”:
What's the meaning of the phrase 'Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely'?
The proverbial saying 'power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely' conveys the opinion that, as a person's power increases, their moral sense diminishes.
Origin - the short version: "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" is the best known quotation of the 19th century British politician Lord Acton. He borrowed the idea from several other writers who had previously expressed the same thought in different words.
Origin – the full story: Absolute monarchies are those in which all power is given to or, as is more often the case, taken by, the monarch. Examples of absolute power having a corrupting influence are Roman emperors (who declared themselves gods) and Napoleon Bonaparte (who declared himself an emperor)…
…"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" arose as part of a quotation by the expansively named and impressively hirsute John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902).
The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
The text is a favourite of collectors of quotations and is always included in anthologies. If you are looking for the exact "power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" wording, then Acton is your man. He coined the phrase but he didn't invent the idea; quotations very like it had been uttered by several authors well before 1887.
Primary amongst them was another English politician with no shortage of names - William Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham and British Prime Minister from 1766 to 1778. Pitt said something similar in a speech to the UK House of Lords in 1770:
"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"
…Acton is likely to have taken his lead from the writings of the French republican poet and politician, again a generously titled individual - Alphonse Marie Louis de Prat de Lamartine. An English translation of Lamartine's essay France and England: a Vision of the Future was published in London in 1848 and included this text.
It is not only the slave or serf who is ameliorated in becoming free. The master himself did not gain less in every point of view, for absolute power corrupts the best natures.
Whether it is Lamartine or his anonymous English translator who can claim to have coined 'absolute power corrupts' we can't be sure. What we can be sure about is that it came before Lord Acton's more famous version. Whether Acton was aware of Lamartine's essay we can't now tell.
Conclusion:
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" is one of the proverbial sayings that seems to be proved correct by experience of people's actual behaviour.
From: Phrases.org.uk: absolute power corrupts absolutely
~ ~ ~ ~
To repeat a key phrase from the above excerpt “The proverbial saying 'power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely' conveys the opinion that, as a person's power increases, their moral sense diminishes” got me thinking - not just about cult-leaders but also cult-followers and the mix of the human condition and the influence of a cult.
Yes, in TWI we were taught to be jerks…but to what degree we each individually became a jerk probably depended on a number of things – one’s individual psychological make up, social needs, ambitions, etc.…as I expressed in an earlier post, I tended to be a real jerk to anyone who wasn’t interested in PFAL or wasn’t keen on TWI’s current agenda – which on the TWI- values scale is small potatoes – even though it violates the two great commandments big time (God's values scale) …but for someone who is very ambitious and really likes to bully and control others, hooking up with TWI was like a marriage made in heaven.
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Nathan_Jr
T-Bone - Excellent treatment on the provenance of the phrase "Power corrupts." (I always appreciate the granularity.)
Your quote above was my experience with the local father in da word when I asked serious questions from a place of genuine, humble yearning to find out. The authentic love and charity I manifested unto all (without exception) in the fellowship was dismissed as counterfeit when I challenged the opinionated claim that victor researched diligently for 18 hours a day so I wouldn't have to. I pointed to Bullinger's as the real work, but not in a gotcha way; rather, surely you meant to give credit where it's due?
This kind of power that passive-aggressively asserts "it's true even if you don't believe it" comes from a place of deep insecurity, embarrassment and phony posturing.
The Jerk is taught up and formed from one mold. Varying sizes, sure, but the same cookie-cutter. Victor machined the mold
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Rocky
Yes, I believe I did.
Yes, it was at the time we experienced it. Who knows (the Shadow probably knows
whether it still does?), but even if the cult doesn't abuse its power so egregiously these days, it's still built on false concepts of godliness. IOW, the people in it might try to be nicer and less abusive in particular, but there are limits.
Anyway, abuse of power, as Keltner argues, which is what "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," is about, is based on the 16th century conception of power [Machiavelli] as something that is to be grabbed. But anymore ethical/moral organizations recognize that power is given, not grabbed. Given by the followers, not grabbed or asserted by the rulers.
That would comport more closely with he who would be the greatest among you must be the least/lowest.
Anyway, I appreciate both of you, Nathan and T-Bone.
Also, if you'd like, I presented a similar theme in my recent (this evening) post on my blog. But I did so in a political context, so I will not put the link here. You may, if interested, either do an internet search or send me a private message and I will be happy to give you the link.
However, without the political context, and more directly related to TWI and any other cult or religious group, the bottom-line is compliance is voluntary, but defiance brings consequences that followers (as I am confident you and most, if not all GSC readers), know already includes harsh penalties such as ostracism, i.e. Mark and Avoid (which might, by now, be a registered trademark of The Way Corporation) and public shaming.
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Rocky
Very true. We experienced a glut of disinformation in TWI that we were ill-prepared to cope with by use of critical thinking and analysis. That was the "genius" of Victor's PFLAP class. In said class, more that teaching us how to make God's Word our own, he conned us into making him our guru. A guru we referred to as The Teacher, and more "affectionately" as our Father in the Word. It was all bull$hit. We can grasp that now based on decades of re-evaluating a whole lot of the content and our experiences inside the cult and the corps(e) and since then, having to cope with real life.
Edited by RockyReal life that included marriages, families and children, which for me included a LOT of hard knocks. I am thankful to be a survivor, in spite of my lame efforts to incorporate bad biblical teaching and anachronistic social values.
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Nathan_Jr
Matthew 7:16
Jerks are among the fruits produced from being taught up by and conforming to the dogmatic doctrines of VPW and TWI.
Those here who are no longer jerks are proof that you can, indeed, go beyond what you were taught.
Edited by Nathan_JrA music coordinator, an A/V guy, and a charlatan walk into a bar...
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Bolshevik
I'm not sure what you are saying . . . we're talking about followers of The Way.
The guilt and actions of adults and their sexual conduct imposed upon children . .
I have every right to flip the bird to those idiots who chose that life.
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Bolshevik
The internet became a source for strangers to ostracize and point fingers at those who did not choose to be part of The Way.
The dirty laundry of those who should have kept it in the basement thrown upon kids.
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