The philosopherDemocritustrained himself by going into solitude and frequenting tombs.[5]Plato'sPhaedo, where the death ofSocratesis recounted, introduces the idea that the proper practice of philosophy is "about nothing else but dying and being dead".[6]
TheStoicsofclassical antiquitywere particularly prominent in their use of this discipline, andSeneca's letters are full of injunctions to meditate on death.[7]The StoicEpictetustold his students that when kissing their child, brother, or friend, they should remind themselves that they are mortal, curbing their pleasure, as do "those who stand behind men in their triumphs and remind them that they are mortal".[8]The StoicMarcus Aureliusinvited the reader to "consider how ephemeral and mean all mortal things are" in hisMeditations.[9][10]
In some accounts of theRoman triumph, a companion orpublic slavewould stand behind or near thetriumphant generalduring the procession and remind him from time to time of his own mortality or prompt him to "look behind".[11]A version of this warning is often rendered into English as "Remember, Caesar, thou art mortal", for example inFahrenheit 451.
Saw this piece and thought it was interesting. It doesn't explain or interpret the verses on the rapture but is clear on it being fiction according to the writer:
Frankly, it's not worth my time to verify his "biblical research" but I both find -- the notion of the "gathering together" aka the Rapture, AND his claim that it was introduced as an excuse not to have to obey God -- dubious (i.e. magical thinking).
However,
9 hours ago, Bolshevik said:
Awareness of death, ... anxiety, should motivate people to use the time they have.
I agree with this sentiment. It's natural for humans to contemplate the meaning of their lives. Memento Mori is good to keep in mind.
I do think there’s a lot of folks who have a kind of escapist mentality when it comes to the rapture…From my own experience in The Way International I have a lot of anecdotal evidence of TWI-leaders promoting a live-like-there’s-no-tomorrow philosophy. One such incident was in the early 80s, during a big ministry event out-of-town. The branch coordinator and his wife (both way corps) rode there and back in our vehicle – I don’t remember them helping out with gas money. But I do remember our conversation at the restaurant. I happened to mention a concern for the cost of this whole trip and the branch coordinator - with the finesse of a used-car salesman – started talking about living life with the hope of the return of Christ, that it could happen at any time. Once again, I fell into the manipulative trap of put-your-money-where-your-believing-is and so I wound up paying for the restaurant meal.
The Bradlee Dean article does bring up a good point regarding the erroneous escapist mentality…However, I do think his article may be conflating several different ideas concerning the rapture and dispensationalism:
“If there is one reoccurring issue with the heretics in the Church of America today it is that of the rapture. This is the doctrine that is promoted that puts the people’s hope of being raptured from responsibility (Proverbs 13:13). As if the Lord is going to raise up an army only to rapture them from the war that they have been called to wage (Psalm 78:9). Occupy until He comes, the Bible tells us (Psalm 94:16; Luke 19:13). The rapture of which they speak, of course, does not scripturally or historically exist. Enoch, Elijah and, upon His resurrection, Jesus were translated (Hebrew 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11; Acts 1:11). If anyone deserved to be raptured it would have been that of the Christ and the 11 disciples that were martyred. Yet, somehow or another, and in their heretical minds through adding to Scripture, these structuralists attempt to justify that which is unjustifiable. Matthew 24:36 tells us: “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” In John 17:15 tells us: “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”
Friends, the rapture is NOT a Biblical doctrine, period. This is a doctrine that was invented in the 19th century in Ireland by James Darby. James used to indoctrinate, through his Bible studies, his rich and nobles in Powerscourt where the rapture doctrine was developed (Galatians 1:6). It is not a doctrine affirmed historically by any of the great confessions of the Christian faith. It is based upon a misinterpretation of certain passages found within Scripture.”
End of quoting B. Dean’s article
~ ~ ~ ~
I don’t intend to derail this thread with a tangent about the differences in subtopics of the rapture – pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, and other eschatological subjects like the variations of dispensationalism: covenant theology, classic or traditional, revised, progressive etc. Personally, I do believe the events of I Thessalonians 4:15-18 will happen but I’m not sure of when and how... ...And when and how seems to be debatable with a lot of theologians…so I'm remaining flexible - I could go any which way
…I’ve expressed on Grease Spot how much of my belief system is in a state of flux, that I’m not even really sure if I’m saved – perhaps that doubt is what keeps me humble and always reaching for Jesus Christ. I happen to agree with Dean’s sentiment of keeping up the good fight. Sometimes I have this nagging thought in the back of my mind that the reason I’m fascinated with the book of Revelation and Bible prophecy in general is because I’m either already living in it or will be at some point. I like to think I’m spiritually strong – especially after escaping from a harmful and controlling cult like TWI. I pray…study…live to make my Lord proud and hope if the worst is yet to come, I’ll be a good soldier until the end...part of my personal philosophy is that the best way to prepare for future challenges is by developing good habits and moral courage now.
That news with views website looks interesting and like anything else I check out the info with a grain of salt. I read some other articles on the website and looked over the contributors – among several dubious authors I noticed Roger Stone was listed…I’m not a fan of some of that - but hey that’s just me.
I've noticed a sloppiness about this sort of thing that the internet has only multiplied. According to one author who blames the concept of the pre-Tribulation Rapture for ruining both his job and his marriage, the whole thing was invented by John Darby, who got it from Mary MacDonald's prophecy.
The thing is, NEITHER of them pushed a pre-trib Rapture position. MacDonald's prophecy (I've read it) was loaded with her concerns- of which she was quite vocal- that the church WOULD have to live through the Tribulation AND WAS NOT READY FOR IT.
Since there's a lot about the internet that is pro-yelling and against reading books, it doesn't surprise me that this story about them keeps rolling along.
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Looks like these verses are speaking in the present tense to me. Although we were taught by the way that it was some time in the future.
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Looks like these verses are speaking in the present tense to me. Although we were taught by the way that it was some time in the future.
The problem with relying SOLELY on the KJV is that the version is about 500 years old, and its wording is about 500 years old. Unless you read Shakespeare for fun and understand it without footnotes, I don't recommend trying to use it for understanding. "As that" there is the part that's easy to misunderstand, since it's not a phrase in modern usage.
II Thessalonians 2:1-2 NIV
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
II Thessalonians 2:1-2 NASB
2 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the [a]coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,2 that you not be quickly shaken from your [b]composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a [c]message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
===================================
Those verses were addressing some people's concern that "the day of the Lord" had already passed AND THEY MISSED IT.
If you read the passages in a clearer version, you will be less likely to make mistakes common to people trying to decipher the KJV and end up rendering modern Bible- as if there weren't any already commercially available. You can buy some locally, you can read some online, and there's free versions for download.
To be clearer, I don't think anyone will miss out on the day of the Lord. Each person will have that day soon enough. I don't believe that this happens to everyone all at the same time, as those bible versions seem to indicate. And timing is not so important as the fact that it will happen.
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Bolshevik
Makes sense.
Awareness of death, death anxiety, should motivate people to use the time they have. Not rationalize methods of escape.
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Rocky
Memento Mori
The philosopher Democritus trained himself by going into solitude and frequenting tombs.[5] Plato's Phaedo, where the death of Socrates is recounted, introduces the idea that the proper practice of philosophy is "about nothing else but dying and being dead".[6]
The Stoics of classical antiquity were particularly prominent in their use of this discipline, and Seneca's letters are full of injunctions to meditate on death.[7] The Stoic Epictetus told his students that when kissing their child, brother, or friend, they should remind themselves that they are mortal, curbing their pleasure, as do "those who stand behind men in their triumphs and remind them that they are mortal".[8] The Stoic Marcus Aurelius invited the reader to "consider how ephemeral and mean all mortal things are" in his Meditations.[9][10]
In some accounts of the Roman triumph, a companion or public slave would stand behind or near the triumphant general during the procession and remind him from time to time of his own mortality or prompt him to "look behind".[11] A version of this warning is often rendered into English as "Remember, Caesar, thou art mortal", for example in Fahrenheit 451.
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Rocky
In the opinion of the writer.
Frankly, it's not worth my time to verify his "biblical research" but I both find -- the notion of the "gathering together" aka the Rapture, AND his claim that it was introduced as an excuse not to have to obey God -- dubious (i.e. magical thinking).
However,
I agree with this sentiment. It's natural for humans to contemplate the meaning of their lives. Memento Mori is good to keep in mind.
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Nathan_Jr
"This is a doctrine that was invented in the 19th century in Ireland by James Darby.
I wonder if the author meant John Nelson Darby, the inventor of dispensationalism.
"...to indoctrinate through his Bible studies..."
Gross
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oldiesman
You may be correct... nice catch
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oldiesman
Can't argue with that!
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T-Bone
I do think there’s a lot of folks who have a kind of escapist mentality when it comes to the rapture…From my own experience in The Way International I have a lot of anecdotal evidence of TWI-leaders promoting a live-like-there’s-no-tomorrow philosophy. One such incident was in the early 80s, during a big ministry event out-of-town. The branch coordinator and his wife (both way corps) rode there and back in our vehicle – I don’t remember them helping out with gas money. But I do remember our conversation at the restaurant. I happened to mention a concern for the cost of this whole trip and the branch coordinator - with the finesse of a used-car salesman – started talking about living life with the hope of the return of Christ, that it could happen at any time. Once again, I fell into the manipulative trap of put-your-money-where-your-believing-is and so I wound up paying for the restaurant meal.
The Bradlee Dean article does bring up a good point regarding the erroneous escapist mentality…However, I do think his article may be conflating several different ideas concerning the rapture and dispensationalism:
“If there is one reoccurring issue with the heretics in the Church of America today it is that of the rapture. This is the doctrine that is promoted that puts the people’s hope of being raptured from responsibility (Proverbs 13:13). As if the Lord is going to raise up an army only to rapture them from the war that they have been called to wage (Psalm 78:9). Occupy until He comes, the Bible tells us (Psalm 94:16; Luke 19:13). The rapture of which they speak, of course, does not scripturally or historically exist. Enoch, Elijah and, upon His resurrection, Jesus were translated (Hebrew 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11; Acts 1:11). If anyone deserved to be raptured it would have been that of the Christ and the 11 disciples that were martyred. Yet, somehow or another, and in their heretical minds through adding to Scripture, these structuralists attempt to justify that which is unjustifiable. Matthew 24:36 tells us: “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” In John 17:15 tells us: “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”
Friends, the rapture is NOT a Biblical doctrine, period. This is a doctrine that was invented in the 19th century in Ireland by James Darby. James used to indoctrinate, through his Bible studies, his rich and nobles in Powerscourt where the rapture doctrine was developed (Galatians 1:6). It is not a doctrine affirmed historically by any of the great confessions of the Christian faith. It is based upon a misinterpretation of certain passages found within Scripture.”
End of quoting B. Dean’s article
~ ~ ~ ~
I don’t intend to derail this thread with a tangent about the differences in subtopics of the rapture – pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, and other eschatological subjects like the variations of dispensationalism: covenant theology, classic or traditional, revised, progressive etc. Personally, I do believe the events of I Thessalonians 4:15-18 will happen but I’m not sure of when and how... ...And when and how seems to be debatable with a lot of theologians…so I'm remaining flexible - I could go any which way
…I’ve expressed on Grease Spot how much of my belief system is in a state of flux, that I’m not even really sure if I’m saved – perhaps that doubt is what keeps me humble and always reaching for Jesus Christ. I happen to agree with Dean’s sentiment of keeping up the good fight. Sometimes I have this nagging thought in the back of my mind that the reason I’m fascinated with the book of Revelation and Bible prophecy in general is because I’m either already living in it or will be at some point. I like to think I’m spiritually strong – especially after escaping from a harmful and controlling cult like TWI. I pray…study…live to make my Lord proud and hope if the worst is yet to come, I’ll be a good soldier until the end...part of my personal philosophy is that the best way to prepare for future challenges is by developing good habits and moral courage now.
That news with views website looks interesting and like anything else I check out the info with a grain of salt. I read some other articles on the website and looked over the contributors – among several dubious authors I noticed Roger Stone was listed…I’m not a fan of some of that - but hey that’s just me.
Edited by T-Boneadded emoji
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waysider
They do have some rather....uhhm...interesting merchandise for sale.
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WordWolf
I've noticed a sloppiness about this sort of thing that the internet has only multiplied. According to one author who blames the concept of the pre-Tribulation Rapture for ruining both his job and his marriage, the whole thing was invented by John Darby, who got it from Mary MacDonald's prophecy.
The thing is, NEITHER of them pushed a pre-trib Rapture position. MacDonald's prophecy (I've read it) was loaded with her concerns- of which she was quite vocal- that the church WOULD have to live through the Tribulation AND WAS NOT READY FOR IT.
Since there's a lot about the internet that is pro-yelling and against reading books, it doesn't surprise me that this story about them keeps rolling along.
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cman
2 Thessolonians 2: 1 & 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Looks like these verses are speaking in the present tense to me. Although we were taught by the way that it was some time in the future.
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WordWolf
The problem with relying SOLELY on the KJV is that the version is about 500 years old, and its wording is about 500 years old. Unless you read Shakespeare for fun and understand it without footnotes, I don't recommend trying to use it for understanding. "As that" there is the part that's easy to misunderstand, since it's not a phrase in modern usage.
II Thessalonians 2:1-2 NIV
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
II Thessalonians 2:1-2 NASB
2 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the [a]coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your [b]composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a [c]message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
===================================
Those verses were addressing some people's concern that "the day of the Lord" had already passed AND THEY MISSED IT.
If you read the passages in a clearer version, you will be less likely to make mistakes common to people trying to decipher the KJV and end up rendering modern Bible- as if there weren't any already commercially available. You can buy some locally, you can read some online, and there's free versions for download.
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cman
To be clearer, I don't think anyone will miss out on the day of the Lord. Each person will have that day soon enough. I don't believe that this happens to everyone all at the same time, as those bible versions seem to indicate. And timing is not so important as the fact that it will happen.
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cman
I know what that teaching is, I disagree, I don't think that is what these scriptures are saying.
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