I came over here so I wouldnt have to respond to you at all.
Yes I too would prefer a troll free thread so Mike please keep your commentary to the other one as many are not wanting to muck up all the threads on the forum with your viewpoints.
When wierwille traveled to Calgary, Alberta in 1953......to take Rev. B.G. Leonard's class on "The Gifts of the Spirit" wierwille accomplished two things:
He discovered that B.G. was functioning and thriving on a class-based ministry independent from denominational constraints. No church boards, community or public accountability was needed. A class-based ministry was limitless in potential. As founder and ceo, one could bask in the full sunlight of independence, power and control.
The class and biblical material gave the teacher command over an attentive audience. The gifts (manifestations) of the spirit was something not taught in denominational churches. B.G. taught and demonstrated this power in manifestation.
IMO....with everything that I know today about wierwille and his atrocities (his malignant narcissism, plagiarism, sexual predation, drunkenness, charmer, cruel, striker, vindictive, etc.)..... I believe that wierwille chose B.G.'s class-based ministry because it greased the machinery of wierwille's malignant narcissism. Full stop. I repeat: IT WAS NOT THE CLASS MATERIAL......IT WAS THE CLASS-BASED SYSTEM that *thrilled* wierwille.
If true, then that explains a lot.
It explains how wierwille NEVER could fluently speak in tongues.
Nor, could wierwille operate the nine manifestations of holy spirit.
Looking for a shtick and a way to feed his narcissism and pay the bills.
Wierwille talked a good game, but was peddling stolen wares.
Thus, at PFAL '77 wierwille (age 60) could NOT duplicate the plagiarist past.
This would explain why wierwille shied away from public healing services at the Rock of Ages. It explains why after claiming an 8th corps guy was possessed in the BRC, wierwille could NOT cast out a devil spirit(s). It explains why the Trustees were so empty and void of spiritual power......wierwille was a false teacher, a counterfeit. He was a spiritual hitchhiker.....just like he elucidated in pfal (except he was subconsciously pointed the finger back at himself).
Wierwille wanted the class-based system, because it freed him from the Van Wert church. Was his narcissistic personality disorder driving his decisions? Was wierwille looking for an opportunity to be "the big man in town" where he no longer had to report to the church board and community officials? Was the class-based ministry a way of hiding from public view......just like young boy vic hid in the way woods as a child? Or perhaps.....a confluence of opportunity and timing in 1953 where veepee envisioned a class-based structure as a source of steady income for life? Knowing.....that when Old Man Wierwille died, victor would make his way back to the wierwille homestead near New Knoxville, Ohio?
Fast-forward to today.......The Way International is a class-based ministry and on their fifth iteration of the foundational class. From it stolen inception and identity, twi stays in the shadows of its revisionist history.....never able to stand in the pure light of God's grace and glory. All the students who ever sat in pfal, or its variants, were deceived by a hireling who cared not for the flock. He was an opportunist.....as are those who followed his pernicious ways and now are perched in the upper seats at "headquarters" who demand your servitude and abundant sharing.
What a con!!!
Staffers at "hq" will ALWAYS be your spiritual overlords.....if you allow it.
They will ALWAYS be 'the teachers.'
You on the field will ALWAYS be....... their students.
They will ALWAYS have another class in the pipeline for you to take.
Stop the insanity!!!!!
Quote
1.Power for Abundant Living (1967).Wierwille plagiarized wholesale from B.G. Leonard's 1953 class, "The Gifts of the Spirit." Wierwille sat thru this class twice, before rushing back to Van Wert, Ohio and signing people up for "his" October class (no charts, no syllabus).
2. PFAL '77.Wierwille attempted to update this class in 1977 (failed). With added pressure from a live audience, veepee could NOT replicate the discipline, clarity and spontaneity of updating a class that he had long ago stolen from another.
3. Way of Abundance and Power Class (1996).Martindale's attempt.A class filled with sport analogies and jockstrap ego.(crash & burn) In efforts to upstage wierwille's class, craig endeavors to augment how the original sin was a lesbian encounter between Eve and Satan.
4. WAP Class Update (2004 ?).Three Amigos teach sections.Still has the lingering effects and questions of Craig Martindale's presidency and cover-up. Not a good look....when one of the amigos, Steve Longl3y, exits a turbulent twi and is active in the R&R countermovement.
5. Power for Abundant Living Today (2022).Shiny and new.Makes it looks like twi is actually doing something rather than just serving refried teachings over and over again. Notice all the young frumpy staffers in the picture who worked on this class. Remind you of anyone? In their secluded bubble of self-absorption, does twi really think that another new class is what's needed to reach, teach and minister to others?
$#i7 when did that start. When I was cabinet I was paid a low five figures and was poor enough to put my family on medicaid when mdeical mutual's lifetime max of $10,000 capped out.
We don’t have official info on salaries of top figures. We do have a couple incidents where someone saw a spreadsheet of salaries on a cabinet members computer.
The nepotism factor doesn’t only extend to money. How many dozens of people jump to fulfill rfr every desire? People wash their cars clean their houses treat them like emporers. And they grow to expect it acting like removed Pharisees.
I do know that the field staff that work for the way are paid one teachers salary for two full time workers.
And other indicators. Some of the cabinet folks are known purchasing houses for cash for example. Not the ones with inheritance family money either.
But this is one more thing they hide. Honest organizations are transparent. Many many nonprofits open their books including salaries
the Way hides them. One more reason not to trust them until an auditor is involved. When they are involved how much of the Ways standard operating procedure’s have to be changed?
We don’t have official info on salaries of top figures. We do have a couple incidents where someone saw a spreadsheet of salaries on a cabinet members computer.
The nepotism factor doesn’t only extend to money. How many dozens of people jump to fulfill rfr every desire? People wash their cars clean their houses treat them like emporers. And they grow to expect it acting like removed Pharisees.
I do know that the field staff that work for the way are paid one teachers salary for two full time workers.
And other indicators. Some of the cabinet folks are known purchasing houses for cash for example. Not the ones with inheritance family money either.
But this is one more thing they hide. Honest organizations are transparent. Many many nonprofits open their books including salaries
the Way hides them. One more reason not to trust them until an auditor is involved. When they are involved how much of the Ways standard operating procedure’s have to be changed?
Im somehow mostly speechless. My dumba%% neve considered that the ones in the wolf pack club...like Donna Martindale would be making six figures...it makes sense now that you mention it though. HQ is one big insiders club starting with the so called director and trustee household. I don't know what salay Donna M. makes Im just using her as an example here.
In 1985......when I was the Country Coordinator for Canada, Howard Allen phoned me and requested $4,000 Canadian cash for their Annual Trustee Meetings at Lake of the Woods (remote western Ontario). This was when the trustees traveled north to go fishing and whatnot. They pegged it as "a business trip".... but everyone and their dog knew that it was more or less time to fish and drink.
Of course, they took a couple of guys (aides, body guards) to run errands, build the campfires and do the meals/clean-up, etc.
But.....$4,000 spending money for boat rental, booze and fishing???
In 1985......when I was the Country Coordinator for Canada, Howard Allen phoned me and requested $4,000 Canadian cash for their Annual Trustee Meetings at Lake of the Woods (remote western Ontario). This was when the trustees traveled north to go fishing and whatnot. They pegged it as "a business trip".... but everyone and their dog knew that it was more or less time to fish and drink.
Of course, they took a couple of guys (aides, body guards) to run errands, build the campfires and do the meals/clean-up, etc.
But.....$4,000 spending money for boat rental, booze and fishing???
In 1985......when I was the Country Coordinator for Canada, Howard Allen phoned me and requested $4,000 Canadian cash for their Annual Trustee Meetings at Lake of the Woods (remote western Ontario). This was when the trustees traveled north to go fishing and whatnot. They pegged it as "a business trip".... but everyone and their dog knew that it was more or less time to fish and drink...Of course, they took a couple of guys (aides, body guards) to run errands, build the campfires and do the meals/clean-up, etc. ...But.....$4,000 spending money for boat rental, booze and fishing??? .
And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. Matthew 4:19
Finally! An answer to the question “the teacher” asked in PFAL: “What has the Gospel cost you?”
Answer: $4,000
And if you really think about it, these alleged “fishermen” didn’t handle that cost. It was covered by the financial support from Canadian believers...fish like us in the United States who swallowed their BS hook, line and sinker…
...now if you really want to quibble over what PFAL cost me– we’ll have to add up all the money I spent on that and every other TWI class, and then there’s running PFAL classes, gas money for driving new students to and from class, faithfully giving more than 10 to 15 % of my income, sponsoring way corps, going in the Family corps, going to special events, conferences and advances, going to the Rock and Corps week to work for free…and…
…because it would be very complicated to try to estimate the monetary impact of missed career opportunities and advancements for putting TWI first, of being directed where and how to live or getting talked out of the importance of a higher education because of the work of the ministry…let’s just say for a class that was supposed to increase my prosperity – over some 12 years of active involvement, I think I’ve lost way more than $4,000 from being in the PFAL cult.
Edited by T-Bone revised after Skyrider's clarification on the source of the $4,000
In 1985......when I was the Country Coordinator for Canada, Howard Allen phoned me and requested $4,000 Canadian cash for their Annual Trustee Meetings at Lake of the Woods (remote western Ontario). This was when the trustees traveled north to go fishing and whatnot. They pegged it as "a business trip".... but everyone and their dog knew that it was more or less time to fish and drink.
Of course, they took a couple of guys (aides, body guards) to run errands, build the campfires and do the meals/clean-up, etc.
But.....$4,000 spending money for boat rental, booze and fishing???
.
14 hours ago, T-Bone said:
Finally! An answer to the question “the teacher” asked in PFAL: “What has the Gospel cost you?”
Answer: $4,000
And if you really think about it, these alleged “fishermen” didn’t handle that cost. It was covered by the financial support from Canadian believers...fish like us in the United States who swallowed their BS hook, line and sinker…
Now here is the thing that's mind blowing when it comes to VPW and his blantant abuse of donations. It was common knowledge that these guys used to blow through money like it was nothing, yet scripture is clear in condemning this type of abuse. So why in the heck did everyone excuse this behaviour and act like it really didnt matter because Dr WW is...insert BS rationalization here....! God is clearly no respector of persons, we are to be imitators of God (you would have expected Vic to live this way), and yet wierwille demanded his person be greatly respected...the contradiction is glaring. Yet...people still worship this guy. I will say for the record that anyone reading along that thinks all this is some sort of sordid rumor....VPW's own grand daughter told me that the basement of the wierwille home was the hangout for Wierwille, Allen, and others in the club. She told me they used to party down....card games and hard liquor baby. Fitting behaviour for a minister....yeah....NOT! Yet, I'm not rehashing any of this because I wish to condemn Wierwille for his short comings. However, he was supposed to be a leader, the man of God...and whatever other title he gave himself. So the example he left behind still has worshippers...so the truth must be told.
Nowhere. ever does God give license for ministers (or anyone) to sin because of what they teach. or anyother BS reason. Yet people who follow TWI either have to accept the BS white washed image of VPW that TWI has manufactured, or accept the fact that he lived a double life. Ive lived both realities...and now Im living the truth because the man was a fraud.
Yeah I recollect the WAP class being rolled out with the likes of a parade, a Hugh Hefner replica smoking jacket, and a trip to the Bahamas while the staff was on a 10% pay cut from a needs basis. Anything would be an improvement there
Speaking of dead men’s bones - I was reading about the founder on TWI’s website and got to questioning just how much or if at all wierwille “consulted and worked with many outstanding individuals in Christian studies”.
I spent only a few minutes Googling a few of the names I never heard of besides Barth and Tillich (see links below). I breezed through the Wikipedia articles and started wondering how much wierwille actually “consulted and worked with” them.
Was some of that just name-dropping to impress others?
Maybe someone can verify he worked with ALL those named – especially the big names like Barth and Tillich.
Anyway, here’s the article about the founder: "Victor Paul Wierwille spent several decades vigorously and prayerfully searching out the truths of God’s Word. As part of his search he consulted and worked with many outstanding individuals in Christian studies for keys to power-filled, victorious living. Such men as Karl Barth, Joseph Bauer, Glenn Clark, Karl J. Ernst, Josiah Friedli, Louis C. Hessert, Elmer G. Homrighausen, E. Stanley Jones, George M. Lamsa, Richard and Reinhold Niebuhr, K. C. Pillai, Paul Tillich, Ernst Traeger, and many others were a part of Dr. Wierwille’s quest to find the truths of the Word of God.
Dr. Wierwille’s academic career included Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Theology degrees from Mission House (Lakeland) College and Seminary, and graduate studies at the University of Chicago and at Princeton Theological Seminary, where he earned the Master of Theology degree in Practical Theology. Later he completed his work for the Doctor of Theology degree at Pikes Peak Bible Seminary and Burton College in Manitou Springs, Colorado.
For over forty years, Dr. Wierwille devoted his major energies to intensive research and teaching of the accuracy of God’s Word. In 1953 he began teaching his Biblical research in classes on Power for Abundant Living. He was the founder and first president of The Way International, a nonsectarian, nondenominational Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship ministry. He held the presidency of The Way College of Emporia, and he was the founder and first president of several other centers of learning: The Way College of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus; Camp Gunnison; and LEAD Outdoor Academy International.
As Dr. Wierwille persevered in his research of the Bible, he continued to write more research works and to develop further classes in Biblical studies, including The University of Life outreach courses, an international Biblical studies correspondence school. As a dynamic lecturer, he traveled and taught worldwide, holding forth the greatness and the accuracy of God’s Word with great intensity until his death in May of 1985."
In the cases of Lamsa and Pillai, he did consult with them. Independent sources paint both of them as crackpots, with entirely different kinds of cracks. So, not surprising they'd be willing to be seen in public with vpw.
In the cases of Clark and Jones, he did not "consult" with them. They hosted events that he attended. That's it. It's like you attending an ROA before vpw died, and then later saying that vpw "consulted with you." Or vpw came to your town for the weekend, you were asked to be the one to buy his bottleS of bourbon or whatever, and you later saying that you "worked with him."
I'd expect the ones we'd never heard him mention were in much the same category as Clark and Jones, and they would have been unable to pick him out of a police lineup to save their lives.
Or vpw came to your town for the weekend, you were asked to be the one to buy his bottleS of bourbon [Drambuie ] or whatever, and you later saying that you "worked with him."
Thanks. Despite Mike's imaginations to the contrary, I really don't spend a lot of time on vpw and his sins and delusions (except when someone like Mike comes back and tries to pretend they didn't exist and don't matter.) So, I was blanking for a moment about his (vpw's) alcohol of choice.
Speaking of dead men’s bones - I was reading about the founder on TWI’s website and got to questioning just how much or if at all wierwille “consulted and worked with many outstanding individuals in Christian studies”.
I spent only a few minutes Googling a few of the names I never heard of besides Barth and Tillich (see links below). I breezed through the Wikipedia articles and started wondering how much wierwille actually “consulted and worked with” them.
Was some of that just name-dropping to impress others?
Maybe someone can verify he worked with ALL those named – especially the big names like Barth and Tillich.
Anyway, here’s the article about the founder: "Victor Paul Wierwille spent several decades vigorously and prayerfully searching out the truths of God’s Word. As part of his search he consulted and worked with many outstanding individuals in Christian studies for keys to power-filled, victorious living. Such men as Karl Barth, Joseph Bauer, Glenn Clark, Karl J. Ernst, Josiah Friedli, Louis C. Hessert, Elmer G. Homrighausen, E. Stanley Jones, George M. Lamsa, Richard and Reinhold Niebuhr, K. C. Pillai, Paul Tillich, Ernst Traeger, and many others were a part of Dr. Wierwille’s quest to find the truths of the Word of God.
Dr. Wierwille’s academic career included Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Theology degrees from Mission House (Lakeland) College and Seminary, and graduate studies at the University of Chicago and at Princeton Theological Seminary, where he earned the Master of Theology degree in Practical Theology. Later he completed his work for the Doctor of Theology degree at Pikes Peak Bible Seminary and Burton College in Manitou Springs, Colorado.
For over forty years, Dr. Wierwille devoted his major energies to intensive research and teaching of the accuracy of God’s Word. In 1953 he began teaching his Biblical research in classes on Power for Abundant Living. He was the founder and first president of The Way International, a nonsectarian, nondenominational Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship ministry. He held the presidency of The Way College of Emporia, and he was the founder and first president of several other centers of learning: The Way College of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus; Camp Gunnison; and LEAD Outdoor Academy International.
As Dr. Wierwille persevered in his research of the Bible, he continued to write more research works and to develop further classes in Biblical studies, including The University of Life outreach courses, an international Biblical studies correspondence school. As a dynamic lecturer, he traveled and taught worldwide, holding forth the greatness and the accuracy of God’s Word with great intensity until his death in May of 1985."
... he consulted and worked with many outstanding individuals in Christian studies ...
"Consulted" could just be a gloss on "read a few books that they wrote" [and that he subsequently plagiarised].
"Worked with" could mean he laid out the chairs for their meetings . Or chopped wood or washed the dishes. I doubt he "chopped Word" and discussed theological issues with anybody.
Y'know. Like his association with the baseball lot. Giving you to understand that he'd been a hotshot player, when he probably only sat on the bleachers.
He doesn't mention the people he really poached his classes from, nor Bullinger (dead before VPW born) whose works he also plagiarised.
In the cases of Lamsa and Pillai, he did consult with them. Independent sources paint both of them as crackpots, with entirely different kinds of cracks. So, not surprising they'd be willing to be seen in public with vpw.
In the cases of Clark and Jones, he did not "consult" with them. They hosted events that he attended. That's it. It's like you attending an ROA before vpw died, and then later saying that vpw "consulted with you." Or vpw came to your town for the weekend, you were asked to be the one to buy his bottleS of bourbon or whatever, and you later saying that you "worked with him."
I'd expect the ones we'd never heard him mention were in much the same category as Clark and Jones, and they would have been unable to pick him out of a police lineup to save their lives.
Young wierwille, age 27...... attended the E. Stanley Jones Ashram in July 1944. At that time, E. Stanley Jones was age 60. There is NO evidence that young vic had any type of a friendship/relationship with this towering teacher, Jones.
On page 48 in Mrs. Wierwille's book is a picture of that event. Victor is standing in the back row (looks like church elders and prominent church-goers are in the first 5 or 6 rows).....in an event of 220-250 people. Vic is in the back row, like row 9. LOL And, victor drops this little one-liner...."I considered him (Jones) a wonderful friend."
What a load of bull-pookie.
Rufus Moseley was also there standing next to E. Stanley Jones in this picture (at this event). Wierwille did invite Moseley to teach at their church in Van Wert and Moseley did just that. Not friendship. Not camaraderie. A teacher (Moseley) helping a young start-up preacher (vic).
Simply put...... wierwille lied to us. He bloviated. How many other times did wierwille lie? How are we to believe his India trip experiences? Everything was about self-promotion. What a narcissist! Stealing, lying, boastful, arrogance......I see a pattern here. LOL
Simply put...... wierwille lied to us. He bloviated. How many other times did wierwille lie? How are we to believe his India trip experiences? Everything was about self-promotion. What a narcissist! Stealing, lying, boastful, arrogance......I see a pattern here. LOL
It seems there's no reason at all to believe the India trip experiences. It's too conveniently inconvenient to verify. After that segment in PFAL, one of the sycophants at my "class" told a story about the "healed" Hindi's daughter being present at an advanced class or something at headquarters. That same flying monkey rushed to show me a photo of the 18th century French cemetery after the 4 crucified segment, as if that was evidence of anything at all.
You can't believe your way to Truth. Belief is not required to find out what is true. Only a lie requires belief.
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OldSkool
I came over here so I wouldnt have to respond to you at all.
skyrider
No matter how many times TWI attempts to dress-up their image, inwardly they are full of all uncleanness, hypocrisy and iniquity. Matthew 23:27,28 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocri
waysider
"Balls!", cried the Queen. "If I had to, I could be King." And the Jester laughed because he had to.
OldSkool
I came over here so I wouldnt have to respond to you at all.
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Twinky
Living on a "need basis," then.
One wonders what their "needs" could possibly be, when staffers earn less than minimum wage (taking into account the mandatory "voluntary" overtime.
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Rocky
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chockfull
Yes I too would prefer a troll free thread so Mike please keep your commentary to the other one as many are not wanting to muck up all the threads on the forum with your viewpoints.
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skyrider
When wierwille traveled to Calgary, Alberta in 1953......to take Rev. B.G. Leonard's class on "The Gifts of the Spirit" wierwille accomplished two things:
IMO....with everything that I know today about wierwille and his atrocities (his malignant narcissism, plagiarism, sexual predation, drunkenness, charmer, cruel, striker, vindictive, etc.)..... I believe that wierwille chose B.G.'s class-based ministry because it greased the machinery of wierwille's malignant narcissism. Full stop. I repeat: IT WAS NOT THE CLASS MATERIAL......IT WAS THE CLASS-BASED SYSTEM that *thrilled* wierwille.
If true, then that explains a lot.
This would explain why wierwille shied away from public healing services at the Rock of Ages. It explains why after claiming an 8th corps guy was possessed in the BRC, wierwille could NOT cast out a devil spirit(s). It explains why the Trustees were so empty and void of spiritual power......wierwille was a false teacher, a counterfeit. He was a spiritual hitchhiker.....just like he elucidated in pfal (except he was subconsciously pointed the finger back at himself).
Wierwille wanted the class-based system, because it freed him from the Van Wert church. Was his narcissistic personality disorder driving his decisions? Was wierwille looking for an opportunity to be "the big man in town" where he no longer had to report to the church board and community officials? Was the class-based ministry a way of hiding from public view......just like young boy vic hid in the way woods as a child? Or perhaps.....a confluence of opportunity and timing in 1953 where veepee envisioned a class-based structure as a source of steady income for life? Knowing.....that when Old Man Wierwille died, victor would make his way back to the wierwille homestead near New Knoxville, Ohio?
Fast-forward to today.......The Way International is a class-based ministry and on their fifth iteration of the foundational class. From it stolen inception and identity, twi stays in the shadows of its revisionist history.....never able to stand in the pure light of God's grace and glory. All the students who ever sat in pfal, or its variants, were deceived by a hireling who cared not for the flock. He was an opportunist.....as are those who followed his pernicious ways and now are perched in the upper seats at "headquarters" who demand your servitude and abundant sharing.
What a con!!!
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chockfull
We don’t have official info on salaries of top figures. We do have a couple incidents where someone saw a spreadsheet of salaries on a cabinet members computer.
The nepotism factor doesn’t only extend to money. How many dozens of people jump to fulfill rfr every desire? People wash their cars clean their houses treat them like emporers. And they grow to expect it acting like removed Pharisees.
I do know that the field staff that work for the way are paid one teachers salary for two full time workers.
And other indicators. Some of the cabinet folks are known purchasing houses for cash for example. Not the ones with inheritance family money either.
But this is one more thing they hide. Honest organizations are transparent. Many many nonprofits open their books including salaries
the Way hides them. One more reason not to trust them until an auditor is involved. When they are involved how much of the Ways standard operating procedure’s have to be changed?
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OldSkool
Im somehow mostly speechless. My dumba%% neve considered that the ones in the wolf pack club...like Donna Martindale would be making six figures...it makes sense now that you mention it though. HQ is one big insiders club starting with the so called director and trustee household. I don't know what salay Donna M. makes Im just using her as an example here.
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skyrider
In 1985......when I was the Country Coordinator for Canada, Howard Allen phoned me and requested $4,000 Canadian cash for their Annual Trustee Meetings at Lake of the Woods (remote western Ontario). This was when the trustees traveled north to go fishing and whatnot. They pegged it as "a business trip".... but everyone and their dog knew that it was more or less time to fish and drink.
Of course, they took a couple of guys (aides, body guards) to run errands, build the campfires and do the meals/clean-up, etc.
But.....$4,000 spending money for boat rental, booze and fishing???
.
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waysider
That was some serious chump change in 1985.
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T-Bone
And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. Matthew 4:19
Finally! An answer to the question “the teacher” asked in PFAL: “What has the Gospel cost you?”
Answer: $4,000
And if you really think about it, these alleged “fishermen” didn’t handle that cost. It was covered by the financial support from Canadian believers...fish like us in the United States who swallowed their BS hook, line and sinker…
...now if you really want to quibble over what PFAL cost me – we’ll have to add up all the money I spent on that and every other TWI class, and then there’s running PFAL classes, gas money for driving new students to and from class, faithfully giving more than 10 to 15 % of my income, sponsoring way corps, going in the Family corps, going to special events, conferences and advances, going to the Rock and Corps week to work for free…and…
…because it would be very complicated to try to estimate the monetary impact of missed career opportunities and advancements for putting TWI first, of being directed where and how to live or getting talked out of the importance of a higher education because of the work of the ministry…let’s just say for a class that was supposed to increase my prosperity – over some 12 years of active involvement, I think I’ve lost way more than $4,000 from being in the PFAL cult.
Edited by T-Bonerevised after Skyrider's clarification on the source of the $4,000
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skyrider
Yes, it was.
Paid by the Canadian believers' abundant sharing.....so the *Trustless* guys could get away for some drinking and fishing.
Knowing what I know today......it wouldn't surprise me to learn that a couple of young corps girls joined the getaway.
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OldSkool
Now here is the thing that's mind blowing when it comes to VPW and his blantant abuse of donations. It was common knowledge that these guys used to blow through money like it was nothing, yet scripture is clear in condemning this type of abuse. So why in the heck did everyone excuse this behaviour and act like it really didnt matter because Dr WW is...insert BS rationalization here....! God is clearly no respector of persons, we are to be imitators of God (you would have expected Vic to live this way), and yet wierwille demanded his person be greatly respected...the contradiction is glaring. Yet...people still worship this guy. I will say for the record that anyone reading along that thinks all this is some sort of sordid rumor....VPW's own grand daughter told me that the basement of the wierwille home was the hangout for Wierwille, Allen, and others in the club. She told me they used to party down....card games and hard liquor baby. Fitting behaviour for a minister....yeah....NOT! Yet, I'm not rehashing any of this because I wish to condemn Wierwille for his short comings. However, he was supposed to be a leader, the man of God...and whatever other title he gave himself. So the example he left behind still has worshippers...so the truth must be told.
Nowhere. ever does God give license for ministers (or anyone) to sin because of what they teach. or anyother BS reason. Yet people who follow TWI either have to accept the BS white washed image of VPW that TWI has manufactured, or accept the fact that he lived a double life. Ive lived both realities...and now Im living the truth because the man was a fraud.
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chockfull
Yeah I recollect the WAP class being rolled out with the likes of a parade, a Hugh Hefner replica smoking jacket, and a trip to the Bahamas while the staff was on a 10% pay cut from a needs basis. Anything would be an improvement there
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T-Bone
Speaking of dead men’s bones - I was reading about the founder on TWI’s website and got to questioning just how much or if at all wierwille “consulted and worked with many outstanding individuals in Christian studies”.
I spent only a few minutes Googling a few of the names I never heard of besides Barth and Tillich (see links below). I breezed through the Wikipedia articles and started wondering how much wierwille actually “consulted and worked with” them.
Was some of that just name-dropping to impress others?
Maybe someone can verify he worked with ALL those named – especially the big names like Barth and Tillich.
Anyway, here’s the article about the founder:
"Victor Paul Wierwille spent several decades vigorously and prayerfully searching out the truths of God’s Word. As part of his search he consulted and worked with many outstanding individuals in Christian studies for keys to power-filled, victorious living. Such men as Karl Barth, Joseph Bauer, Glenn Clark, Karl J. Ernst, Josiah Friedli, Louis C. Hessert, Elmer G. Homrighausen, E. Stanley Jones, George M. Lamsa, Richard and Reinhold Niebuhr, K. C. Pillai, Paul Tillich, Ernst Traeger, and many others were a part of Dr. Wierwille’s quest to find the truths of the Word of God.
Dr. Wierwille’s academic career included Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Theology degrees from Mission House (Lakeland) College and Seminary, and graduate studies at the University of Chicago and at Princeton Theological Seminary, where he earned the Master of Theology degree in Practical Theology. Later he completed his work for the Doctor of Theology degree at Pikes Peak Bible Seminary and Burton College in Manitou Springs, Colorado.
For over forty years, Dr. Wierwille devoted his major energies to intensive research and teaching of the accuracy of God’s Word. In 1953 he began teaching his Biblical research in classes on Power for Abundant Living. He was the founder and first president of The Way International, a nonsectarian, nondenominational Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship ministry. He held the presidency of The Way College of Emporia, and he was the founder and first president of several other centers of learning: The Way College of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus; Camp Gunnison; and LEAD Outdoor Academy International.
As Dr. Wierwille persevered in his research of the Bible, he continued to write more research works and to develop further classes in Biblical studies, including The University of Life outreach courses, an international Biblical studies correspondence school. As a dynamic lecturer, he traveled and taught worldwide, holding forth the greatness and the accuracy of God’s Word with great intensity until his death in May of 1985."
From: The Way org About the founder
~ ~ ~ ~
Wikipedia – Karl Barth
Wikipedia – Elmer G Homrighausen
Wikipedia – Helmut Richard Niebuhr
Wikipedia - Richard Niebuhr
Wikipedia – Paul Tillich
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WordWolf
In the cases of Lamsa and Pillai, he did consult with them. Independent sources paint both of them as crackpots, with entirely different kinds of cracks. So, not surprising they'd be willing to be seen in public with vpw.
In the cases of Clark and Jones, he did not "consult" with them. They hosted events that he attended. That's it. It's like you attending an ROA before vpw died, and then later saying that vpw "consulted with you." Or vpw came to your town for the weekend, you were asked to be the one to buy his bottleS of bourbon or whatever, and you later saying that you "worked with him."
I'd expect the ones we'd never heard him mention were in much the same category as Clark and Jones, and they would have been unable to pick him out of a police lineup to save their lives.
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Rocky
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WordWolf
Thanks. Despite Mike's imaginations to the contrary, I really don't spend a lot of time on vpw and his sins and delusions (except when someone like Mike comes back and tries to pretend they didn't exist and don't matter.) So, I was blanking for a moment about his (vpw's) alcohol of choice.
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waysider
I should get them to write my resume.
"His vast real estate holdings include a kitchen, a living room , a bathroom, a beautiful white flowering stinkwood tree, ......."
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Nathan_Jr
B. G. Leonard is conspicuously missing from this list.
The ThD. in Homiletics is conspicuously missing.
But (conjunction) I've got to give 'em credit for mentioning Pike Peak. Ballzy move.
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Twinky
"Consulted" could just be a gloss on "read a few books that they wrote" [and that he subsequently plagiarised].
"Worked with" could mean he laid out the chairs for their meetings
. Or chopped wood or washed the dishes. I doubt he "chopped Word" and discussed theological issues with anybody.
Y'know. Like his association with the baseball lot. Giving you to understand that he'd been a hotshot player, when he probably only sat on the bleachers.
He doesn't mention the people he really poached his classes from, nor Bullinger (dead before VPW born) whose works he also plagiarised.
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skyrider
Young wierwille, age 27...... attended the E. Stanley Jones Ashram in July 1944. At that time, E. Stanley Jones was age 60. There is NO evidence that young vic had any type of a friendship/relationship with this towering teacher, Jones.
On page 48 in Mrs. Wierwille's book is a picture of that event. Victor is standing in the back row (looks like church elders and prominent church-goers are in the first 5 or 6 rows).....in an event of 220-250 people. Vic is in the back row, like row 9. LOL And, victor drops this little one-liner...."I considered him (Jones) a wonderful friend."
What a load of bull-pookie.
Rufus Moseley was also there standing next to E. Stanley Jones in this picture (at this event). Wierwille did invite Moseley to teach at their church in Van Wert and Moseley did just that. Not friendship. Not camaraderie. A teacher (Moseley) helping a young start-up preacher (vic).
Simply put...... wierwille lied to us. He bloviated. How many other times did wierwille lie? How are we to believe his India trip experiences? Everything was about self-promotion. What a narcissist! Stealing, lying, boastful, arrogance......I see a pattern here. LOL
.
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Rocky
no big deal.
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Nathan_Jr
It seems there's no reason at all to believe the India trip experiences. It's too conveniently inconvenient to verify. After that segment in PFAL, one of the sycophants at my "class" told a story about the "healed" Hindi's daughter being present at an advanced class or something at headquarters. That same flying monkey rushed to show me a photo of the 18th century French cemetery after the 4 crucified segment, as if that was evidence of anything at all.
You can't believe your way to Truth. Belief is not required to find out what is true. Only a lie requires belief.
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T-Bone
The Old Switcheroo
In PFAL wierwille said: you tell me what you think of Jesus Christ, and I’ll tell you how far you’re going to go spiritually.
How cults work: you tell me what you think of wierwille, and I’ll tell you how far you’re going to go in The Way International.
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