Oh yeah, they will never depart from that crap. The law of believing is intertwined all thoughout.
You mean the law of victim blaming for leadership? Yes that is intertwined. The fear in the heart of that woman killed that boy.
Victim blaming is the 10th manifestation for Way leadership. It replaces miracles and discerning of spirits lol. It’s the only one they operate more than SIT but you can see them occasionally wandering around muttering to themselves.
You mean the law of victim blaming for leadership? Yes that is intertwined. The fear in the heart of that woman killed that boy.
Victim blaming is the 10th manifestation for Way leadership. It replaces miracles and discerning of spirits lol. It’s the only one they operate more than SIT but you can see them occasionally wandering around muttering to themselves.
So true...one of the few pseudo-Christian groups that cast out people instead of spirits...then send cheesy postcards asking them to come home....
I still haven’t heard from anyone who has taken PFAL Today. So, I brought my list forward (fromhere) and added a few more items…To whom is this post written? Anyone who has taken PFAL today.
Please let me know if the following topics are still taught in PFAL Today and if they have added any new details – like wierwille’s sources or phenomena…so…are the following items still covered in the new class:
4 crucified
The Bible interprets itself
To whom the Bible is written
The 7 administrations
The law of believing
The law of giving and receiving
does that little boy still get killed by the fear in the heart of his mother?
Receive, retain, release
“For this purpose, was I spared”
The day Jesus Christ died
Who is The Word in John 1:1
The Bible is mathematically exact and scientifically precise
Humankind were originally body, soul, and spirit
People can get born again of the wrong seed
The way to get back to the original God-breathed Word is by comparing translations and versions
As long as one loves God and neighbor they can do as they full well please
Technically all the women in the kingdom belong to the king
Each believer can operate all 9 manifestations
To receive anything from God you must know the 5 things - know what’s available, know how to receive it , etc.
you can’t go beyond what you’re taught
God can only speak to what He is
God can only give what He is
There’s only one way to rightly divide the Word - all other ways are wrong
Do you still have to hold all questions until the last session?
Do they specifically mention - by name - where wierwille got most of his material from?
Does the new class refer to the 1942 promise made to wierwille?
Does the class mention wierwille’s trip to India and healing a local man’s arm?
Does the class cover the mechanics of speech to teach how to speak in tongues?
Does the class still claim speaking in tongues can’t be counterfeited?
~ ~ ~ ~
If I think of more, I’ll add on later
Thank you in advance for reading this and giving it your honest attention
I still haven’t heard from anyone who has taken PFAL Today. So, I brought my list forward (fromhere) and added a few more items…To whom is this post written? Anyone who has taken PFAL today.
Please let me know if the following topics are still taught in PFAL Today and if they have added any new details – like wierwille’s sources or phenomena…so…are the following items still covered in the new class:
4 crucified
The Bible interprets itself
To whom the Bible is written
The 7 administrations
The law of believing
The law of giving and receiving
does that little boy still get killed by the fear in the heart of his mother?
Receive, retain, release
“For this purpose, was I spared”
The day Jesus Christ died
Who is The Word in John 1:1
The Bible is mathematically exact and scientifically precise
Humankind were originally body, soul, and spirit
People can get born again of the wrong seed
The way to get back to the original God-breathed Word is by comparing translations and versions
As long as one loves God and neighbor they can do as they full well please
Technically all the women in the kingdom belong to the king
Each believer can operate all 9 manifestations
To receive anything from God you must know the 5 things - know what’s available, know how to receive it , etc.
you can’t go beyond what you’re taught
God can only speak to what He is
God can only give what He is
There’s only one way to rightly divide the Word - all other ways are wrong
Do you still have to hold all questions until the last session?
Do they specifically mention - by name - where wierwille got most of his material from?
Does the new class refer to the 1942 promise made to wierwille?
Does the class mention wierwille’s trip to India and healing a local man’s arm?
Does the class cover the mechanics of speech to teach how to speak in tongues?
Does the class still claim speaking in tongues can’t be counterfeited?
~ ~ ~ ~
If I think of more, I’ll add on later
Thank you in advance for reading this and giving it your honest attention
Well done, T-Bone. Fair question, fair points. More than fair.
Please consider adding:
All - with/without exception//distinction
Figgers of Speech - something something the most important something something
Effectual is POW!!!, effective is meh
Misunderstanding the purpose of italics in KJV. Is the preface of the KJV still ignored?
manifestation φανέρωσις(phanerōsis) Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular Strong's Greek 5321:A manifestation, disclosure. From phaneroo; exhibition, i.e. expression, a bestowment.
Cognate: 5321phanérōsis– a manifestation, a "coming tolight."See 5319(phaneroō).
Amplified version:
7But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit [the spiritual illumination and the enabling of the Holy Spirit] for the common good.8To one is given through the [Holy] Spirit [the power to speak] the message of wisdom, and to another [the power to express] the word of knowledgeandunderstanding according to the same Spirit;9to another [wonder-working] faith [is given] by the same [Holy] Spirit, and to another the [extraordinary] gifts of healings by the one Spirit;10and to another the working of[a]miracles, and to another prophecy [foretelling the future, speaking a new message from God to the people], and to another discernment of spirits [the ability to distinguish sound, godly doctrine from the deceptive doctrine of man-made religions and cults], to anothervariouskinds of [unknown] tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues.11All these things [the gifts, the achievements, the abilities, the empowering] are brought about by one and the same [Holy] Spirit, distributing to each one individually just as He chooses.
(I underlined the "familiar" bits.)
Now hang on a bit. What's this about the expressing of words of Wisdom, etc?
Step back a bit further. Verse 7 states these obviousnesses are "for the common good" (same in several versions). That's the common good of your friends, neighbours, colleagues, city; everyone, everywhere. It's not limited to a fellowship or church setting. So why do we suppose these manifestations operate only in private or in a TWI-setting?
Take a look at other people, outside of Wayfer groupthink. You may well find that there are some people who seem extraordinarily wise, whose words offer comfort, guidance, etc - who always seem to know just the right thing to say. It's their background, training, thinking patterns, all of that - and something else. God has seeded, or salted, his people through all walks of life. Let's face it - we all need someone wise to turn to.
Same with every other manifestation. Even "gifts of healings" whether or not they believe in God, Jesus or that the earth is flat. Soothing words of wisdom can operate just as well in conjunction with gifts of healings - see the rise of "talking therapies" these days, where we talk with trained counsellors, psychologists, etc or just mentors, to help us through difficult times.
TWI picked on the noisy stuff because it was an attempt to distinguish themselves.
They forgot what might be more significant - being wise, having vision for the future [prophecy], discernment [getting a handle on the motives of others] etc.
This thread relates to TWI's newest class. Do you think they'll manage to remember that there are other people out there upon whom God's blessings fall, believers and unbelievers alike? D'ya think they'll understand that "common good" relates to everyone - and not "common with distinction" meaning only Wayfers?
I have to say (and I know it will rankle a number of posters here) BUT Craigs latest take and expansion on these scriptures is terrific !
I still haven’t heard from anyone who has taken PFAL Today. So, I brought my list forward (fromhere) and added a few more items…To whom is this post written? Anyone who has taken PFAL today.
Please let me know if the following topics are still taught in PFAL Today and if they have added any new details – like wierwille’s sources or phenomena…so…are the following items still covered in the new class:
4 crucified
The Bible interprets itself
To whom the Bible is written
The 7 administrations
The law of believing
The law of giving and receiving
does that little boy still get killed by the fear in the heart of his mother?
Receive, retain, release
“For this purpose, was I spared”
The day Jesus Christ died
Who is The Word in John 1:1
The Bible is mathematically exact and scientifically precise
Humankind were originally body, soul, and spirit
People can get born again of the wrong seed
The way to get back to the original God-breathed Word is by comparing translations and versions
As long as one loves God and neighbor they can do as they full well please
Technically all the women in the kingdom belong to the king
Each believer can operate all 9 manifestations
To receive anything from God you must know the 5 things - know what’s available, know how to receive it , etc.
you can’t go beyond what you’re taught
God can only speak to what He is
God can only give what He is
There’s only one way to rightly divide the Word - all other ways are wrong
Do you still have to hold all questions until the last session?
Do they specifically mention - by name - where wierwille got most of his material from?
Does the new class refer to the 1942 promise made to wierwille?
Does the class mention wierwille’s trip to India and healing a local man’s arm?
Does the class cover the mechanics of speech to teach how to speak in tongues?
Does the class still claim speaking in tongues can’t be counterfeited?
~ ~ ~ ~
If I think of more, I’ll add on later
Thank you in advance for reading this and giving it your honest attention
Points 1-15 and 18-23 I believe are still very much valid and indeed from a personal point of view and in practical reality are extremely hard to refute.
Points 1-15 and 18-23 I believe are still very much valid and indeed from a personal point of view and in practical reality are extremely hard to refute.
I did not ask if those topics were still valid or how difficult they are to disprove. I asked if they were still included - or still excluded (like not giving attribution to all the sources wierwille got most of the class material from).
My question can ONLY be answered HONESTLY and ACCURATELY by someone who actually took the new PFAL Today class or was involved in the production of the new PFAL Today class.
So to reiterate in a more pointed form my questions to you Allan require only a “yes” or “no” answer:
Did you take the new PFAL Today class?
Were you involved in the production of the new PFAL Today class?
Points 1-15 and 18-23 I believe are still very much valid and indeed from a personal point of view and in practical reality are extremely hard to refute.
Except that most of these are NOT extremely hard to refute - many already have been. Many have been throughly refuted. (Is the new class still teaching throughly?)
The question is are they being regurgitated in the new class? Have you taken it?
Except that most of these are NOT extremely hard to refute - many already have been. Many have been throughly refuted. (Is the new class still teaching throughly?)
The question is are they being regurgitated in the new class? Have you taken it?
There is no 'new class' as far as I know, just teachings put out weekly that when i find time I listen to some (not all)...I even enquired about donating some finance and was turned down (interestingly GS was happy to take mine)
The same reason you feel compelled to have YOUR say on nothing in particular and everything in general.
My reason was upfront and honest about the particulars- my first question to all was to find out what specific topics are still included / excluded from the new PFAL Today class. YOU ignored that and launched a promo for PFAL doctrine and a cult-leader “gone extra rogue” (Craig)
And because of YOUR off-topic advertisements my next questions to YOU were: did you take the new PFAL Today class or were you involved in the production of the new PFAL Today class?
Remarkable how you turned things around by avoiding specific questions and yak about something unrelated. Remarkable just remarkable!
27 minutes ago, Allan said:
There is no 'new class' as far as I know, just teachings put out weekly that when i find time I listen to some (not all)...I even enquired about donating some finance and was turned down (interestingly GS was happy to take mine)
Oh, so you admit you don’t know $hit about the new PFAL Today class. Why didn’t you say so in the first place? That’s weird!
There is no 'new class' as far as I know, just teachings put out weekly that when i find time I listen to some (not all)...I even enquired about donating some finance and was turned down (interestingly GS was happy to take mine)
Except there IS a 'new class.' Even Mike admitted to taking it. It costs $100. The duration is 18 hours - 14 hours too long.
GSC makes it easy to give money, and it will gladly take it, also. It cost money to run the servers that host this site. The owners of GSC are not getting rich and the donors are not going broke - can't say the same for TWI.
There is no 'new class' as far as I know, just teachings put out weekly that when i find time I listen to some (not all)...I even enquired about donating some finance and was turned down (interestingly GS was happy to take mine)
I think I found them and made it about 1:30 in to one of them before the sound of the voice induced an almost vomit like sensation.
after that I really tried to fight it down and listen and almost made it a full other minute before throwing in the towel. and cookies in the bathroom.
but hey, some people like all sorts of strange and different food. Like menudo. And liver. I can’t do it sorry. same for me with da forehead 4 miles. Can’t do it.
101. New and diverse teachers for PLAFT but no new or diverse research. A Biblical research teaching and fellowship ministry without research or a research department.
Giving a new group of teachers the same PFAL outline does not correct any of the problems with the original, nor advance research in a biblical way in any sense.
The components are still lifted from various sources and twisted to make somewhat coherent.
One of the main teachers from the PLAF-T3 class left your dumb ministry over teaching the class with no research department. That act still did not make the leadership any smarter or take any corrective action.
Instead they doubled down with new faces and old wineskin doctrine.
There actually never was a ton of research in TWI. Read penworks book for a description of how it worked at the height of the research in the way functioning.
Daymond: Your new class is based on the late 60s edition, which was taught by a fake doctor who said God told him to plagiarize a bunch of copyrighted material and that it would be just as good as what they had in the first century. I speak for all of the sharks here when I say for those dumb-a$$ reasons we’re out.
Daymond: Your new class is based on the late 60s edition, which was taught by a fake doctor who said God told him to plagiarize a bunch of copyrighted material and that it would be just as good as what they had in the first century. I speak for all of the sharks here when I say for those dumb-a$$ reasons we’re out.
But...but...that copyrighted material hadnt been known since the first century and I was able to hook into the hippies from the Jesus moovement....any interest...going once...
I think some of TWI’s math is screwy – read the above link to The Way Mag
According to the numbers on page 26:
PFAL Today around the world totals to date – new class released June 1st, 2022, and this article is on page 26 of The Way Magazine January-February 2023 edition. In that time span, participants in the class worldwide were:
Classes run: 259
In Countries: 25
New students: 418
Grads: 1,706
The orange down arrow shows it took 6 months – (technically June 1 to December 31st is 6 months and 30 days )
For a total of 2,124
Their forecast appears to be set in 6 months increments on the premise of each one win one.
And they double the figure each time – so 6 months out 2124 x 2 = 4,248…another 6 months out 4,248x 2 = 8,496…and so on.
The goal of each one win one was NOT met in the first 6-month batch – because there were 1,706 gradsand only 418 new students…so, 1,288 gradsdid NOT win someone new to take the class?
Why did they include gradsin the first six months total?
Was it to inflate the exponential growth?
Because doubling the 418 new students only gets 836 – that’s a lot less than the 2124 totals. TWI fudged on the variable to forecast exponential growth.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding something but TWI’s math looks screwy to me…
Maybe I’m misunderstanding something but TWI’s math looks screwy to me…
Im thinking this fluff piece is little more than giving their followers believing images of victory sort of crap...no accurate math needed because they know their followers dont actually verify anything to begin with.
7 hours ago, T-Bone said:
Why did they include gradsin the first six months total?
You hit the nail on the head with inflate numbers. Much the same way they are referencing all these countries where they have had people forever and a day but are using these folks to make it look like the new pflap is spreading around the world as we speak.
I mean and whats the real reason for talking about all those countries to make it look like pflap is spreading like corona? I mean what better way to guilt followers into giving their time off work to go mall witnessing to sell classes....Those international countries sure are moving the word like a housa-fire..or maybe even having some Hossenfeffer....so you guys here in america should be able to do so much better living closer to the root. of the ministry....they actually have what they a buffer zone around headquarters....
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Bolshevik
Scripture, The Bible, is not *a* language. "It interprets itself", though.
T-Bone
Excerpts from the first draft for a totally revised burnt orange book “Power For Materialistic Living Today”, page 3, Introduction: The Materialistic Life …This post literally changed my life. My
Raf
It is almost impossible to overstate how much this reeks of bullcrap. I'll be gentle: If Euclidian geometry were wrong on one point, Euclidian geometry would be perfectly content to remove
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chockfull
You mean the law of victim blaming for leadership? Yes that is intertwined. The fear in the heart of that woman killed that boy.
Victim blaming is the 10th manifestation for Way leadership. It replaces miracles and discerning of spirits lol. It’s the only one they operate more than SIT but you can see them occasionally wandering around muttering to themselves.
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OldSkool
So true...one of the few pseudo-Christian groups that cast out people instead of spirits...then send cheesy postcards asking them to come home....
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So_crates
100. The Way expects PLAF grads to shell out 100 skins to pay for the shorted, supposedly new and improved class.
Hey, PLAF Today, they didn't even change the name--much!
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T-Bone
I still haven’t heard from anyone who has taken PFAL Today. So, I brought my list forward (from here ) and added a few more items…To whom is this post written?
Anyone who has taken PFAL today.
Please let me know if the following topics are still taught in PFAL Today and if they have added any new details – like wierwille’s sources or phenomena…so…are the following items still covered in the new class:
4 crucified
The Bible interprets itself
To whom the Bible is written
The 7 administrations
The law of believing
The law of giving and receiving
does that little boy still get killed by the fear in the heart of his mother?
Receive, retain, release
“For this purpose, was I spared”
The day Jesus Christ died
Who is The Word in John 1:1
The Bible is mathematically exact and scientifically precise
Humankind were originally body, soul, and spirit
People can get born again of the wrong seed
The way to get back to the original God-breathed Word is by comparing translations and versions
As long as one loves God and neighbor they can do as they full well please
Technically all the women in the kingdom belong to the king
Each believer can operate all 9 manifestations
To receive anything from God you must know the 5 things - know what’s available, know how to receive it , etc.
you can’t go beyond what you’re taught
God can only speak to what He is
God can only give what He is
There’s only one way to rightly divide the Word - all other ways are wrong
Do you still have to hold all questions until the last session?
Do they specifically mention - by name - where wierwille got most of his material from?
Does the new class refer to the 1942 promise made to wierwille?
Does the class mention wierwille’s trip to India and healing a local man’s arm?
Does the class cover the mechanics of speech to teach how to speak in tongues?
Does the class still claim speaking in tongues can’t be counterfeited?
~ ~ ~ ~
If I think of more, I’ll add on later
Thank you in advance for reading this and giving it your honest attention
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Nathan_Jr
Well done, T-Bone. Fair question, fair points. More than fair.
Please consider adding:
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Allan
I have to say (and I know it will rankle a number of posters here) BUT Craigs latest take and expansion on these scriptures is terrific !
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Allan
Points 1-15 and 18-23 I believe are still very much valid and indeed from a personal point of view and in practical reality are extremely hard to refute.
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T-Bone
I did not ask if those topics were still valid or how difficult they are to disprove. I asked if they were still included - or still excluded (like not giving attribution to all the sources wierwille got most of the class material from).
My question can ONLY be answered HONESTLY and ACCURATELY by someone who actually took the new PFAL Today class or was involved in the production of the new PFAL Today class.
So to reiterate in a more pointed form my questions to you Allan require only a “yes” or “no” answer:
Did you take the new PFAL Today class?
Were you involved in the production of the new PFAL Today class?
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T-Bone
Why do you HAVE TO SAY anything about Craig’s take and expansion on scriptures ?
I just have to ask – are you one of Craig’s public relations personnel?
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Twinky
Seriously - I'd doubt that, T-Bone. I know how Craig treated Allan. And his family.
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OldSkool
Well...where is that take and expansion you are talking about?....or do I have to register for a class and swear allegiance ...?
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Nathan_Jr
Except that most of these are NOT extremely hard to refute - many already have been. Many have been throughly refuted. (Is the new class still teaching throughly?)
The question is are they being regurgitated in the new class? Have you taken it?
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Allan
The same reason you feel compelled to have YOUR say on nothing in particular and everything in general.
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Allan
There is no 'new class' as far as I know, just teachings put out weekly that when i find time I listen to some (not all)...I even enquired about donating some finance and was turned down (interestingly GS was happy to take mine)
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T-Bone
My reason was upfront and honest about the particulars - my first question to all was to find out what specific topics are still included / excluded from the new PFAL Today class. YOU ignored that and launched a promo for PFAL doctrine and a cult-leader “gone extra rogue” (Craig)
And because of YOUR off-topic advertisements my next questions to YOU were: did you take the new PFAL Today class or were you involved in the production of the new PFAL Today class?
Remarkable how you turned things around by avoiding specific questions and yak about something unrelated.
Remarkable just remarkable! 
Oh, so you admit you don’t know $hit about the new PFAL Today class. Why didn’t you say so in the first place? That’s weird!
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Nathan_Jr
Except there IS a 'new class.' Even Mike admitted to taking it. It costs $100. The duration is 18 hours - 14 hours too long.
https://www.theway.org/blog/power-for-abundant-living-today/
And, in spite of their massive endowment, they will gladly take your money - they've made it very easy.
https://www.theway.org/giving/
GSC makes it easy to give money, and it will gladly take it, also. It cost money to run the servers that host this site. The owners of GSC are not getting rich and the donors are not going broke - can't say the same for TWI.
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OldSkool
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chockfull
I think I found them and made it about 1:30 in to one of them before the sound of the voice induced an almost vomit like sensation.
after that I really tried to fight it down and listen and almost made it a full other minute before throwing in the towel. and cookies in the bathroom.
but hey, some people like all sorts of strange and different food. Like menudo. And liver. I can’t do it sorry. same for me with da forehead 4 miles. Can’t do it.
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chockfull
Did Mikey take the PLAF-T4 or the PLAF-T3?
Is it true if you take them in order
PLAF-T4
PLAF-T3
PLAF-T2
PLAF-T1
that you can achieve liftoff?
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chockfull
101. New and diverse teachers for PLAFT but no new or diverse research. A Biblical research teaching and fellowship ministry without research or a research department.
Giving a new group of teachers the same PFAL outline does not correct any of the problems with the original, nor advance research in a biblical way in any sense.
The components are still lifted from various sources and twisted to make somewhat coherent.
One of the main teachers from the PLAF-T3 class left your dumb ministry over teaching the class with no research department. That act still did not make the leadership any smarter or take any corrective action.
Instead they doubled down with new faces and old wineskin doctrine.
There actually never was a ton of research in TWI. Read penworks book for a description of how it worked at the height of the research in the way functioning.
Edited by chockfullLink to comment
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T-Bone
Shark Tank PFAL Today episode
Daymond: Your new class is based on the late 60s edition, which was taught by a fake doctor who said God told him to plagiarize a bunch of copyrighted material and that it would be just as good as what they had in the first century. I speak for all of the sharks here when I say for those dumb-a$$ reasons we’re out.
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OldSkool
But...but...that copyrighted material hadnt been known since the first century and I was able to hook into the hippies from the Jesus moovement....any interest...going once...
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T-Bone
each one win one forecast
I think some of TWI’s math is screwy – read the above link to The Way Mag
According to the numbers on page 26:
PFAL Today around the world totals to date – new class released June 1st, 2022, and this article is on page 26 of The Way Magazine January-February 2023 edition. In that time span, participants in the class worldwide were:
Classes run: 259
In Countries: 25
New students: 418
Grads: 1,706
The orange down arrow shows it took 6 months – (technically June 1 to December 31st is 6 months and 30 days
)
For a total of 2,124
Their forecast appears to be set in 6 months increments on the premise of each one win one.
And they double the figure each time – so 6 months out 2124 x 2 = 4,248…another 6 months out 4,248 x 2 = 8,496 …and so on.
The goal of each one win one was NOT met in the first 6-month batch – because there were 1,706 grads and only 418 new students…so, 1,288 grads did NOT win someone new to take the class?
Why did they include grads in the first six months total?
Was it to inflate the exponential growth?
Because doubling the 418 new students only gets 836 – that’s a lot less than the 2124 totals. TWI fudged on the variable to forecast exponential growth.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding something but TWI’s math looks screwy to me…
Exponential function - Wikipedia
Exponential Functions - Definition, Formula, Properties, Rules (byjus.com)
Edited by T-Bonerevision
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OldSkool
Im thinking this fluff piece is little more than giving their followers believing images of victory sort of crap...no accurate math needed because they know their followers dont actually verify anything to begin with.
You hit the nail on the head with inflate numbers. Much the same way they are referencing all these countries where they have had people forever and a day but are using these folks to make it look like the new pflap is spreading around the world as we speak.
I mean and whats the real reason for talking about all those countries to make it look like pflap is spreading like corona? I mean what better way to guilt followers into giving their time off work to go mall witnessing to sell classes....Those international countries sure are moving the word like a housa-fire..or maybe even having some Hossenfeffer....so you guys here in america should be able to do so much better living closer to the root. of the ministry....they actually have what they a buffer zone around headquarters....
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