Would we be required to shout "Hallelujah!"? I'm not much of a shouter. Would an announcement on Twitter be Okay?
Technically, I do believe a Twitter announcement would work nowadays. It has been revealed St Peter recently equiped the Pearly Gates with wifi and data, so, we can sin on, but always carry your iphone with you. You just never know when your number will be up.
No, I'm not choosing any religion, but thanks for the offer, although I haven't asked the question.
I don't believe the bible was meant to be a standard of living. It's more like a historical document, with plenty of learning in it.
Your belief viewing the bible as a historical document is one version. I personally do not look at it as a standard of living either, but many do.
The subject of the thread is addressed to those who do feel the bible is a book to live their lives by. I believe it points out the hypocrisy, in my opinion, of the requirements needed to live a bible based life to enter heaven; and in contrast, a person who does not live this lifestyle, being allowed to enter heaven at the last minute, simply by a, “I’m sorry.”
Why should anyone live a life that the bible requires so we can go be with the Lord? There are just too many temptations out there for me to miss out on. We should live life however we choose; drink, sex, dope, whatever makes us feel good, and then a few hours before we die proclaim, “Hallelujah, I found the Lord. Thank you Jesus. I repent of all my sins. Now send me to be with the lord.”
If you deliberately lived a life indulging in everything with the deliberate intention of a deathbed conversion wiping all of that out, when it came time, you might recite the words with a convincing sound like any actor, but you certainly wouldn't mean them. You'd have your deathbed, but no "conversion." There certainly would be no repentance, so there would be no sincerity.
We know vpw was a great big fraud who thought sincerity was something a faker could actually do- but a faker can only FAKE sincerity. Any actor can FAKE an emotion, but that wouldn't be their true feeling and a reflection of their heart. Any fraud or conman like vpw could fake sincerity but could not actually produce it. When it comes down to the difference between what is in the heart- and not what is reflected on the face for any person- vs what someone CLAIMS is in the heart, the difference is dramatic. Jesus even warned us about fakers who claimed to do supernatural things in Jesus' name (they're out there...) He knew that fakers will try to get salvation by faking it, or trying to fast-talk God, or trying to fool Him. That's an awful time for someone to learn that they backed the wrong horse.
Besides, obeying God isn't about trying to EARN SALVATION. It's about a deliberate choice to do the right thing- whether to make God happy, or simply because the right thing IS the right thing to do. There's also additional rewards, but I have trouble picturing most sincere Christians really being motivated solely by racking up rewards points.
Why should anyone live a life that the bible requires so we can go be with the Lord? There are just too many temptations out there for me to miss out on. We should live life however we choose; drink, sex, dope, whatever makes us feel good, and then a few hours before we die proclaim, “Hallelujah, I found the Lord. Thank you Jesus. I repent of all my sins. Now send me to be with the lord.”
Maybe it’s just me but your opening question seems to assume a certain motive. It might be better as a survey question to determine if wanting to be with the Lord is the primary motive for living a life the Bible requires – and then have folks elaborate on their answer.
So speaking just for myself I’ll explain why I chose the Christian life – and for brevity's sake I’ll say that for me the life that the Bible requires a Christian to lead is to love God and love my neighbor as myself, further simplified as the golden rule “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” Matthew 7:12
Without getting too detailed on all the factors in my life on why I have believed in God ever since I was a child and why at some 68 years now I continue to follow the Christian lifestyle – I will say this: I’ve never been hung up on wanting to know if I’m saved nor do I walk around thinking I’m already saved, nor do I feel a desire to be with the Lord is what has kept me on my path…it took several years of being out of TWI to get honest and become self-aware enough to admit I am a recovering a$$-hole with smart-a$$ tendencies. I believe the success of my recovery process depends on my relationship with Jesus Christ...I don’t really have a long-term goal of being with the Lord sometime way in the future of eternity – I’m more concerned about how to deepen a relationship with Him RIGHT NOW.
Many philosophers and psychologists have spent a great deal of time trying to understand the nature of evil and have also observed how evil corrupts people and societies. And looking at all the evil that goes on in the world many of them also try to address how to overcome that evil.
Another word for overcoming that evil is “salvation” – but that word is used almost exclusively in a religious sense. Karl Paul Reinhold Niebuhr(1892–1971) was an American Reformed theologian, ethicist, commentator on politics and public affairs, and professor at Union Theological Seminary for more than 30 years. Niebuhr was one of America's leading public intellectuals for several decades of the 20th century and received the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1964. He once wrote that the original sin is “the only empirically verifiable doctrine of the Christian faith”. In other words, sin...evil has been around for a long, long time and most people will acknowledge that.
To sum it up – I choose to live the Christian life as a means of overcoming the evil in my life and of that around me – that is my salvation in the here and now – I don’t know what that means in eternity – I don’t think that far ahead – If I die and find out there is no God or I simply cease to exist…well big deal - I do find some satisfaction right now in the fact that I do NOT seek to hurt others and that I try to help others overcome these present evils . It just feels good to do good.
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding Philippians 2:12,13 but that is what I think it is talking about (working on your salvation right now) :
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
and by the way - don't try to pin me down on what salvation means...cuz I don't know ...all that stuff about eternity, rewards, who is going where, what am I going to do for work up there ... or down there ...is way over my head
3 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:
Your belief viewing the bible as a historical document is one version. I personally do not look at it as a standard of living either, but many do.
The subject of the thread is addressed to those who do feel the bible is a book to live their lives by.
I believe it points out the hypocrisy, in my opinion, of the requirements needed to live a bible based life to enter heaven; and in contrast, a person who does not live this lifestyle, being allowed to enter heaven at the last minute, simply by a, “I’m sorry.”
Wasn’t sure about this thread until you said who it’s addressed to. Also, I would like some clarification on your second statement: “I believe it points out the hypocrisy, in my opinion, of the requirements needed to live a bible based life to enter heaven; and in contrast, a person who does not live this lifestyle, being allowed to enter heaven at the last minute, simply by a, “I’m sorry.” “
Are you saying the Bible promotes hypocrisy?
Also, in your “last minute scenario” – are you thinking of insincere repentance?
Hypocrisy is the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense. Is it possible that even a hypocrite could genuinely repent on his or her deathbed?
And on the other hand, can someone who lived a criminal life have a GENUINE change of heart just before they die? The title of your thread alludes to the criminals who were crucified along with Jesus in Luke 23
39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence?
41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
It seems apparent the repentant criminal of Luke 23 was described NOT as a religious hypocrite but rather as a repeat offender – a lawbreaker. So, no hypocrisy there…he probably lived his life the way he wanted to – he even admitted as much by saying he got what he deserved. He also must have been somewhat familiar with Jesus’ life and ministry to say he knew he had done nothing wrong, and even believed Jesus would come into his kingdom. I don’t see what the problem is with this passage. To me it reflects some age-old truth "There are no atheists in foxholes" an aphorism used to suggest that times of extreme stress or fear can prompt belief in a higher power. In the context of actual warfare, such a sudden change in belief has been called a foxhole conversion.” From Wikipedia – there are no atheists in foxholes
Is there a problem with someone being prompted to believe in a higher power during a time of great stress or fear? And as far as timing goes - God had something prearranged long before I was born – and yet it covers the entire time I will be on this earth:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
Yeah I AM a sinner – and I’ve read that Jesus hung out with sinners...hello my name is T-Bone and I'm a recovering a$$-hole with smart-a$$ tendencies.
Edited by T-Bone The computer asked the Christian "would you like to save this file?"
Maybe it’s just me but your opening question assumes a certain motive. It might be better as a survey question to determine if wanting to be with the Lord is the primary motive for living a life the Bible requires – and then have folks elaborate on their answer.
Wasn’t sure about this thread until you said who it’s addressed to. Also, I would like some clarification on your second statement: “I believe it points out the hypocrisy, in my opinion, of the requirements needed to live a bible based life to enter heaven; and in contrast, a person who does not live this lifestyle, being allowed to enter heaven at the last minute, simply by a, “I’m sorry.” “
Are you saying the Bible promotes hypocrisy?
Without a doubt I am saying the bible promotes hypocrisy. Plus I doubt believe in the bible or God.
Catholics find salvation through confessing their sins to a man in a black suit.
Mormans have to jump through hoops with Moroni, and wear wierd diapers to bed.
Not sure what the Jewish folks have to do. Guess they are still waiting for Jesus to come the first time.
The Baptists believe once saved always saved.
Muslims pray all hours of the day. And let’s not forget all those virgins for the warriors who die for Alluh.
There are literally thousands of organizations who intrepret the same book (the bible) thousands of different ways. I’m sure at least one believes you can live a life of hell, and slide into heaven at the last minute.
And don’t forget all the other religions who don’t know what the bible is.
Religion is the one thing that allows us to believe anything or anyway we want, to get the same results.
Without a doubt I am saying the bible promotes hypocrisy.
thanks for the clarification.
But I tend to think it's not any religion that promotes hypocrisy - rather people have a tendency to be hypocritical - going on the definition of hypocrisy I gave above "Hypocrisy is the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense". I think religions don't want you to pretend. but that's just my opinion
There are just too many temptations out there for me to miss out on. We should live life however we choose; drink, sex, dope, whatever makes us feel good,
This is your philosophy of life - is it not?
Does your belief system allow for making sacrifices to help someone else?
If you are tempted by an attractive woman to cheat on your wife - but you resist cuz you know it would hurt her - does that make you a hypocrite of your own philosophy?
would you still feel good if you got really drunk and while driving home - you hit and killed a 12- year-old crossing the street? If you answer yes - you would still feel good then you wouldn't be a hypocrite, would you?
just curious - you said you don't believe in God or the Bible - what do you believe about good and evil? If a guy gets an AR-15 and takes out a bunch of people in Las Vegas because it feels good to him - is that okay? That was an event that actually happened. 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting .This is a two-parter question: if your answer is that it's okay - then WHY was it okay for him to kill all those people? If it's not okay for him to do that - they WHY was it not okay for him to kill all those people? I'm not trying to start an argument with you - just wanting to understand your belief system.
Does your belief system allow for making sacrifices to help someone else?
If you are tempted by an attractive woman to cheat on your wife - but you resist cuz you know it would hurt her - does that make you a hypocrite of your own philosophy?
would you still feel good if you got really drunk and while driving home - you hit and killed a 12- year-old crossing the street? If you answer yes - you would still feel good then you wouldn't be a hypocrite, would you?
just curious - you said you don't believe in God or the Bible - what do you believe about good and evil? If a guy gets an AR-15 and takes out a bunch of people in Las Vegas because it feels good to him - is that okay? That was an event that actually happened. 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting .This is a two-parter question: if your answer is that it's okay - then WHY was it okay for him to kill all those people? If it's not okay for him to do that - they WHY was it not okay for him to kill all those people? I'm not trying to start an argument with you - just wanting to understand your belief system.
I used a rather extreme example, Drink, Sex, dope, whatever, to illustrate my point. I do none of those in my life as it would be very detrimental to me and those around me. It was to point out there is seemingly nothing in life too extreme that would cause one not to go to heaven, if at the last moment, they were sorry for doing it. The point being you can prove anything from the bible if you want to. A verse here, a chapter there, this religion, that religion, any will somehow get you whatever you want.
How I believe in good and evil. Medical studies and life experiences show that excess drink and dope use is harmful to your health. I did partake in booze in my younger days, even though my religion at the time, said not to, so religion was no deterrent, but waking up with a hangover was. I saw how drugs screwed up my friends lives so it was natural to avoid them. My friends and I were raised in Catholic schools, which was absolutely no hindrance for some to steal, curse, drink, have premarital sex, yada, yada, yada.
I have no desire to grab a weapon and kill people. I was raised in a religious family after the age of 9, but prior to that age, religion did not play a part in my life. It seems to me by the age of 9 I was aware not to lie, steal, or kill, etc. My parents taught me rules in life.
Why should anyone live a life that the bible requires so we can go be with the Lord? There are just too many temptations out there for me to miss out on. We should live life however we choose; drink, sex, dope, whatever makes us feel good, and then a few hours before we die proclaim, “Hallelujah, I found the Lord. Thank you Jesus. I repent of all my sins. Now send me to be with the lord.”
You certainly can live life as you choose but didn't Lucifer do that and look where that got him? Why take that risk; seek God first, do his will as best you can, and God says eternal rewards will be yours.
I used a rather extreme example, Drink, Sex, dope, whatever, to illustrate my point. I do none of those in my life as it would be very detrimental to me and those around me. It was to point out there is seemingly nothing in life too extreme that would cause one not to go to heaven, if at the last moment, they were sorry for doing it. The point being you can prove anything from the bible if you want to. A verse here, a chapter there, this religion, that religion, any will somehow get you whatever you want.
Mark made a good point – it seems to be misleading, and I find it frustrating when you post something like this in doctrinal exploring the Bible…At first I was hesitant to respond – but then you said “The subject of the thread is addressed to those who do feel the bible is a book to live their lives by”. I guess I took the bait.
And while I do agree with you on the idea “The point being you can prove anything from the bible if you want to. A verse here, a chapter there, this religion, that religion, any will somehow get you whatever you want.” I would also like to express my disappointment and frustration - - I thought this was going to be a discussion on God’s forgiveness, hypocrisy, salvation, morality, or something in that general religious neighborhood.
I could be wrong but the way this has played out it looks to me like you really wanted to talk about something else – maybe it was that you don’t believe in God or the Bible or any religion…or the negative aspects of a belief in God/the Bible/religion - I’m not sure…but anyway maybe next time if that’s what you really want to talk about, choose the appropriate forum – so you don’t waste everyone’s time – and state up front what you really want to talk about. If I knew this was really going to be another discussion/debate on your beliefs that there is no God and that anyone can prove anything from the Bible – I probably would have ignored this thread…anyway – have a nice day.
why do you think religion is the one thing that allows you to believe anything or anyway you want and get the same results ? what results?
that seems too general...I think everyone is free to believe anything they want - but that doesn't make it so.
Let’s take the subject of going to heaven. All religions believe they will get the same results..i.e. going go heaven. However, the way they get someone to heaven varies from group to group. Each group inserts their own beliefs, which can vary wildly, but in the end, all will end up passing through the gates to eternity.
I used this example in a previous post:
“Mormans have to jump through hoops with Moroni, and wear wierd diapers to bed.
Not sure what the Jewish folks have to do. Guess they are still waiting for Jesus to come the first time.
The Baptists believe once saved always saved.
Muslims pray all hours of the day. And let’s not forget all those virgins for the warriors who die for Alluh.”
How can all these differing beliefs accomplush the same thing? Getting their believers to heaven.
Let’s take the subject of going to heaven. All religions believe they will get the same results..i.e. going go heaven. However, the way they get someone to heaven varies from group to group. Each group inserts their own beliefs, which can vary wildly, but in the end, all will end up passing through the gates to eternity...
...How can all these differing beliefs accomplush the same thing? Getting their believers to heaven.
you've already answered that question in your previous post
13 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:
Religion is the one thing that allows us to believe anything or anyway we want, to get the same results.
The subject of the thread is addressed to those who do feel the bible is a book to live their lives by. I believe it points out the hypocrisy, in my opinion, of the requirements needed to live a bible based life to enter heaven; and in contrast, a person who does not live this lifestyle, being allowed to enter heaven at the last minute, simply by a, “I’m sorry.”
We received a report about this thread asking that it be moved to "atheism and questioning belief."
I disagreed. I came here expecting to defend the thread as a question about why people shouldn't put off conversion until the last possible moment, living lives of sin for as long as possible and finally converting in the end and marching through the pearly gates (or waking up at the gathering or whatever it is you believe).
Then I read this, and it became clearer that the report was correct.
Feel free to explore the doctrinal issue that was raised, but I'm moving the thread to where it belongs: Questioning Faith.
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waysider
Would we be required to shout "Hallelujah!"? I'm not much of a shouter. Would an announcement on Twitter be Okay?
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cman
I'm not sure what "live a life that the bible requires" actually is, or that it's a thing to do.
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Stayed Too Long
Technically, I do believe a Twitter announcement would work nowadays. It has been revealed St Peter recently equiped the Pearly Gates with wifi and data, so, we can sin on, but always carry your iphone with you. You just never know when your number will be up.
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Stayed Too Long
There are thousands of religions out there waiting for you to stop in so they can tell you. Choose your poison carefully.
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cman
No, I'm not choosing any religion, but thanks for the offer, although I haven't asked the question.
I don't believe the bible was meant to be a standard of living. It's more like a historical document, with plenty of learning in it.
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Stayed Too Long
Your belief viewing the bible as a historical document is one version. I personally do not look at it as a standard of living either, but many do.
The subject of the thread is addressed to those who do feel the bible is a book to live their lives by. I believe it points out the hypocrisy, in my opinion, of the requirements needed to live a bible based life to enter heaven; and in contrast, a person who does not live this lifestyle, being allowed to enter heaven at the last minute, simply by a, “I’m sorry.”
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waysider
If you're counting on its historical accuracy, you may be setting yourself up for disappointment.
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cman
Yeah, true waysider. I've only just lately beginning to understand what those people were talking about.
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WordWolf
If you deliberately lived a life indulging in everything with the deliberate intention of a deathbed conversion wiping all of that out, when it came time, you might recite the words with a convincing sound like any actor, but you certainly wouldn't mean them. You'd have your deathbed, but no "conversion." There certainly would be no repentance, so there would be no sincerity.
We know vpw was a great big fraud who thought sincerity was something a faker could actually do- but a faker can only FAKE sincerity. Any actor can FAKE an emotion, but that wouldn't be their true feeling and a reflection of their heart. Any fraud or conman like vpw could fake sincerity but could not actually produce it. When it comes down to the difference between what is in the heart- and not what is reflected on the face for any person- vs what someone CLAIMS is in the heart, the difference is dramatic. Jesus even warned us about fakers who claimed to do supernatural things in Jesus' name (they're out there...) He knew that fakers will try to get salvation by faking it, or trying to fast-talk God, or trying to fool Him. That's an awful time for someone to learn that they backed the wrong horse.
Besides, obeying God isn't about trying to EARN SALVATION. It's about a deliberate choice to do the right thing- whether to make God happy, or simply because the right thing IS the right thing to do. There's also additional rewards, but I have trouble picturing most sincere Christians really being motivated solely by racking up rewards points.
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waysider
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T-Bone
Maybe it’s just me but your opening question seems to assume a certain motive. It might be better as a survey question to determine if wanting to be with the Lord is the primary motive for living a life the Bible requires – and then have folks elaborate on their answer.
So speaking just for myself I’ll explain why I chose the Christian life – and for brevity's sake I’ll say that for me the life that the Bible requires a Christian to lead is to love God and love my neighbor as myself, further simplified as the golden rule “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” Matthew 7:12
Without getting too detailed on all the factors in my life on why I have believed in God ever since I was a child and why at some 68 years now I continue to follow the Christian lifestyle – I will say this: I’ve never been hung up on wanting to know if I’m saved nor do I walk around thinking I’m already saved, nor do I feel a desire to be with the Lord is what has kept me on my path…it took several years of being out of TWI to get honest and become self-aware enough to admit I am a recovering a$$-hole with smart-a$$ tendencies. I believe the success of my recovery process depends on my relationship with Jesus Christ...I don’t really have a long-term goal of being with the Lord sometime way in the future of eternity – I’m more concerned about how to deepen a relationship with Him RIGHT NOW.
Many philosophers and psychologists have spent a great deal of time trying to understand the nature of evil and have also observed how evil corrupts people and societies. And looking at all the evil that goes on in the world many of them also try to address how to overcome that evil.
Another word for overcoming that evil is “salvation” – but that word is used almost exclusively in a religious sense. Karl Paul Reinhold Niebuhr (1892–1971) was an American Reformed theologian, ethicist, commentator on politics and public affairs, and professor at Union Theological Seminary for more than 30 years. Niebuhr was one of America's leading public intellectuals for several decades of the 20th century and received the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1964. He once wrote that the original sin is “the only empirically verifiable doctrine of the Christian faith”. In other words, sin...evil has been around for a long, long time and most people will acknowledge that.
To sum it up – I choose to live the Christian life as a means of overcoming the evil in my life and of that around me – that is my salvation in the here and now – I don’t know what that means in eternity – I don’t think that far ahead – If I die and find out there is no God or I simply cease to exist…well big deal - I do find some satisfaction right now in the fact that I do NOT seek to hurt others and that I try to help others overcome these present evils . It just feels good to do good.
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding Philippians 2:12,13 but that is what I think it is talking about (working on your salvation right now) :
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
and by the way - don't try to pin me down on what salvation means...cuz I don't know
...all that stuff about eternity, rewards, who is going where, what am I going to do for work up there 
... or down there 
...is way over my head
Wasn’t sure about this thread until you said who it’s addressed to. Also, I would like some clarification on your second statement: “I believe it points out the hypocrisy, in my opinion, of the requirements needed to live a bible based life to enter heaven; and in contrast, a person who does not live this lifestyle, being allowed to enter heaven at the last minute, simply by a, “I’m sorry.” “
Are you saying the Bible promotes hypocrisy?
Also, in your “last minute scenario” – are you thinking of insincere repentance?
Hypocrisy is the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense. Is it possible that even a hypocrite could genuinely repent on his or her deathbed?
And on the other hand, can someone who lived a criminal life have a GENUINE change of heart just before they die? The title of your thread alludes to the criminals who were crucified along with Jesus in Luke 23
39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence?
41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
It seems apparent the repentant criminal of Luke 23 was described NOT as a religious hypocrite but rather as a repeat offender – a lawbreaker. So, no hypocrisy there…he probably lived his life the way he wanted to – he even admitted as much by saying he got what he deserved. He also must have been somewhat familiar with Jesus’ life and ministry to say he knew he had done nothing wrong, and even believed Jesus would come into his kingdom. I don’t see what the problem is with this passage. To me it reflects some age-old truth "There are no atheists in foxholes" an aphorism used to suggest that times of extreme stress or fear can prompt belief in a higher power. In the context of actual warfare, such a sudden change in belief has been called a foxhole conversion.” From Wikipedia – there are no atheists in foxholes
Is there a problem with someone being prompted to believe in a higher power during a time of great stress or fear? And as far as timing goes - God had something prearranged long before I was born – and yet it covers the entire time I will be on this earth:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
Yeah I AM a sinner – and I’ve read that Jesus hung out with sinners...hello my name is T-Bone and I'm a recovering a$$-hole with smart-a$$ tendencies.
Edited by T-BoneThe computer asked the Christian "would you like to save this file?"
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Stayed Too Long
Without a doubt I am saying the bible promotes hypocrisy. Plus I doubt believe in the bible or God.
Catholics find salvation through confessing their sins to a man in a black suit.
Mormans have to jump through hoops with Moroni, and wear wierd diapers to bed.
Not sure what the Jewish folks have to do. Guess they are still waiting for Jesus to come the first time.
The Baptists believe once saved always saved.
Muslims pray all hours of the day. And let’s not forget all those virgins for the warriors who die for Alluh.
There are literally thousands of organizations who intrepret the same book (the bible) thousands of different ways. I’m sure at least one believes you can live a life of hell, and slide into heaven at the last minute.
And don’t forget all the other religions who don’t know what the bible is.
Religion is the one thing that allows us to believe anything or anyway we want, to get the same results.
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T-Bone
thanks for the clarification.
But I tend to think it's not any religion that promotes hypocrisy - rather people have a tendency to be hypocritical - going on the definition of hypocrisy I gave above "Hypocrisy is the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense". I think religions don't want you to pretend. but that's just my opinion
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T-Bone
need clarification on this too
why do you think religion is the one thing that allows you to believe anything or anyway you want and get the same results ? what results?
that seems too general...I think everyone is free to believe anything they want - but that doesn't make it so.
Edited by T-Boneedited for peace of mind
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T-Bone
This is your philosophy of life - is it not?
Does your belief system allow for making sacrifices to help someone else?
If you are tempted by an attractive woman to cheat on your wife - but you resist cuz you know it would hurt her - does that make you a hypocrite of your own philosophy?
would you still feel good if you got really drunk and while driving home - you hit and killed a 12- year-old crossing the street? If you answer yes - you would still feel good then you wouldn't be a hypocrite, would you?
just curious - you said you don't believe in God or the Bible - what do you believe about good and evil? If a guy gets an AR-15 and takes out a bunch of people in Las Vegas because it feels good to him - is that okay? That was an event that actually happened. 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting .This is a two-parter question: if your answer is that it's okay - then WHY was it okay for him to kill all those people? If it's not okay for him to do that - they WHY was it not okay for him to kill all those people? I'm not trying to start an argument with you - just wanting to understand your belief system.
Edited by T-Bonerevision
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Stayed Too Long
I used a rather extreme example, Drink, Sex, dope, whatever, to illustrate my point. I do none of those in my life as it would be very detrimental to me and those around me. It was to point out there is seemingly nothing in life too extreme that would cause one not to go to heaven, if at the last moment, they were sorry for doing it. The point being you can prove anything from the bible if you want to. A verse here, a chapter there, this religion, that religion, any will somehow get you whatever you want.
How I believe in good and evil. Medical studies and life experiences show that excess drink and dope use is harmful to your health. I did partake in booze in my younger days, even though my religion at the time, said not to, so religion was no deterrent, but waking up with a hangover was. I saw how drugs screwed up my friends lives so it was natural to avoid them. My friends and I were raised in Catholic schools, which was absolutely no hindrance for some to steal, curse, drink, have premarital sex, yada, yada, yada.
I have no desire to grab a weapon and kill people. I was raised in a religious family after the age of 9, but prior to that age, religion did not play a part in my life. It seems to me by the age of 9 I was aware not to lie, steal, or kill, etc. My parents taught me rules in life.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Just to remind Stayed To Long on this web site there is also a forum that is more in harmony with his current mindset.
Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
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oldiesman
You certainly can live life as you choose but didn't Lucifer do that and look where that got him? Why take that risk; seek God first, do his will as best you can, and God says eternal rewards will be yours.
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T-Bone
Mark made a good point – it seems to be misleading, and I find it frustrating when you post something like this in doctrinal exploring the Bible…At first I was hesitant to respond – but then you said “The subject of the thread is addressed to those who do feel the bible is a book to live their lives by”. I guess I took the bait.
And while I do agree with you on the idea “The point being you can prove anything from the bible if you want to. A verse here, a chapter there, this religion, that religion, any will somehow get you whatever you want.” I would also like to express my disappointment and frustration - - I thought this was going to be a discussion on God’s forgiveness, hypocrisy, salvation, morality, or something in that general religious neighborhood.
I could be wrong but the way this has played out it looks to me like you really wanted to talk about something else – maybe it was that you don’t believe in God or the Bible or any religion…or the negative aspects of a belief in God/the Bible/religion - I’m not sure…but anyway maybe next time if that’s what you really want to talk about, choose the appropriate forum – so you don’t waste everyone’s time – and state up front what you really want to talk about. If I knew this was really going to be another discussion/debate on your beliefs that there is no God and that anyone can prove anything from the Bible – I probably would have ignored this thread…anyway – have a nice day.
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Twinky
I thought the original OP was post was the opening of silly season. Intended to be humorous. Perhaps it should be in Just Plain Silly.
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Stayed Too Long
Let’s take the subject of going to heaven. All religions believe they will get the same results..i.e. going go heaven. However, the way they get someone to heaven varies from group to group. Each group inserts their own beliefs, which can vary wildly, but in the end, all will end up passing through the gates to eternity.
I used this example in a previous post:
“Mormans have to jump through hoops with Moroni, and wear wierd diapers to bed.
Not sure what the Jewish folks have to do. Guess they are still waiting for Jesus to come the first time.
The Baptists believe once saved always saved.
Muslims pray all hours of the day. And let’s not forget all those virgins for the warriors who die for Alluh.”
How can all these differing beliefs accomplush the same thing? Getting their believers to heaven.
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Stayed Too Long
Thank you. I wll be more precise in the future where I post.
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T-Bone
you've already answered that question in your previous post
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modcat5
We received a report about this thread asking that it be moved to "atheism and questioning belief."
I disagreed. I came here expecting to defend the thread as a question about why people shouldn't put off conversion until the last possible moment, living lives of sin for as long as possible and finally converting in the end and marching through the pearly gates (or waking up at the gathering or whatever it is you believe).
Then I read this, and it became clearer that the report was correct.
Feel free to explore the doctrinal issue that was raised, but I'm moving the thread to where it belongs: Questioning Faith.
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