I'm really confused. The cars appear to be new but the music seems to be from 40 years ago. It would be more believable if they at least made an effort to smile a bit more.
I'm really confused. The cars appear to be new but the music seems to be from 40 years ago. It would be more believable if they at least made an effort to smile a bit more.
Dude....the main opening riff and subsequent verses are heavily inspired by Rod Stewart.
Hey, that's unfair. There is a bit about Eph 4:32 in the middle, in the "fellowship meeting."
But, oh, the chorus. EG around 3:30 I think they're singing "We can all fellowship" or some such. Sounds more like "We can't all give a sh!t." Or maybe that's the Cafe version.
Hey, that's unfair. There is a bit about Eph 4:32 in the middle, in the "fellowship meeting."
But, oh, the chorus. EG around 3:30 I think they're singing "We can all fellowship" or some such. Sounds more like "We can't all give a sh!t." Or maybe that's the Cafe version.
They do get more and more out of touch with what connects in the world. That was a cringe worthy display.
Contrast it with the Christian group that won a Grammy last night.
Since leaving TWI I have been to quite a few churches from all walks of life. Most predominatly, African American churches that I've been to call their "Way Productions" praise and worship. I've seen some really inspiring performances ranging from interpretive dance to various size bands and styles of music. Im not pointing out way productions to be a jerk and rip on people who otherwise mean well in their efforts. Im putting it on here because instead of singing praises to the Lord they reinforce the cult liffestyle and cult isolation with their music. If you pay attention to way production lyrics the cult lifestyle reinforcement becomes really clear. The song that I posted just happens to be a shining example of what I am talking about. Im reminded of a vocal section from an older way productions song from the late 90s.
Quote
"We focus on the teachings of our leadership, holding them fast instead of letting them slip" - The song I think was called The Present Truth
Now I have heard a limited amount of old way productions from Pressed Down, and some others where I don't remember the group names. At one time they really had some good talent and a decent product so to speak. I think what happened to way productions (in part) is that it was micro-managed for so long by Wierwille, Craig, Rosalie, etc. Micromanaged by NON-MUSICIANS for so long that it's just gotten worse and worse over the years. The directors heavily micromanage anything coming out of the auditorium and that is directly related to the Allen lawsuit and efforts to remain lawsuit proof. They do not want anything said or sung that could be used in court. Anywho, the directors are largely out of touch with whats going on outside of TWI's microcosm and it shows in their music productions and teachings. Again, I'm not trying to be a butthole here either, there's substance to what I am pointing out. Also I am an accomplished musician in my own right. Been playing guitar since I was 12 (Ill be 50 next year), have played professionally when I was much younger, have played multiple styles, been to an accredited music school with a jazz based curriculim. But hey!...what do I know...lol
At one time they really had some good talent and a decent product so to speak.
This is strictly my opinion, but I kinda feel like some of the really early groups came into the ministry with an already established, solid catalog. Then, they adapted it and reconfigured it make it align with the Way agenda. (I used to write a bit of music in my "old man" days. That's basically what I did. Instead of continuing to be creative, I revamped old material to make it "on the word".) When it was time to produce new material, the agenda superceded the music, which is why it sounds artificial. There might be a few of the originators still around to comment on that. I don't Know if any of them post here, other than Socks.
This is strictly my opinion, but I kinda feel like some of the really early groups came into the ministry with an already established, solid catalog. Then, they adapted it and reconfigured it make it align with the Way agenda. (I used to write a bit of music in my "old man" days. That's basically what I did. Instead of continuing to be creative, I revamped old material to make it "on the word".) When it was time to produce new material, the agenda superceded the music, which is why it sounds artificial. There might be a few of the originators still around to comment on that. I don't Know if any of them post here, other than Socks.
Yeah, I can relate to your points, Waysider…musically, I was fairly active with the ministry before I went into the corps. We had a band that played at coffee houses, dances, branch, and limb functions; played original stuff, ministry tunes but also covered some “worldly” popular tunes so believers had something familiar to dance to.
When I went into the corps after a certain amount of time, they let musicians bring in their instruments. I’ve told this story before – and I ought to write a song about it sometime and call it “The Way Corps Killed My Muse” …anyway us 1st year in residence corps put a band together – and a few of us wanted to play some of our own originals.
lyrics-wise, stuff that I wrote was usually regurgitated PFAL drivel – but music-wise I thought my tunes had an interesting mix of funk, psychedelic rock and R&B…My muse was kinda sidetracked to create tunes that had TWI-appeal – and to be honest, I considered the lyrics secondary anyway – I usually aimed to compose something musically interesting. Throwing words together is still a challenge for me.
…anyway… the assistant corps coordinator wanted us to submit copies of the lyrics for any original tunes that we wanted to play…now here comes the “good part”.
He comes back to us during one of our practices. And he okays his, his, and his original tunes – mentioning only one little recommendation here and there. Then he gets to mine and launches a full-blown extended play critique in front of the whole band…he’d read a line and say “why did you put it that way?” I think it would be more right on with The Word if you said… blah, blah, blah” by the time he got through the second verse his voice was just a drone in the background – I mean geesh – I didn’t think you could get anymore PFAL-pungent than my songs…but this guy outdid me by a mile! I was melting with embarrassment. I tuned him out and never wrote another song for TWI.
I should have cranked my bass amp up to 11 and pounded out the bass line to Another One Bites the Dust to rain holy terror on his poor defenseless ears… that’s the day my muse bit the dust.
TWI’s agenda tended to subjugate anyone’s creativity and originality…Every once and awhile I think of the road not taken…but I have no regrets…don’t think I’d like being a traveling musician – even before I joined TWI, I thought about that…I’m a boring homebody – if anything I’d probably would have been happy being a studio bassist. 9 to 5 and get home in time to watch The Muppet Show.
Uhm… getting back to your thoughts…I agree with you on the really early bands having their own solid sound…before the ministry’s great-cheesy-homogenizer became self-aware…ooooooh shades of Skynet…cue The Terminator music.
I should have cranked my bass amp up to 11 and pounded out the bass line to Another One Bites the Dust to rain holy terror on his poor defenseless ears… that’s the day my muse bit the dust.
Wild since supposedly twi has a tiktok and you tube accounts and people are really impressed to the point they are asking where fellowships are. I think they saw a remake of God first.
I got involved in twigs so early that I didn't know what "worship" was until I left. Two songs by my day definitely just reiterated teachings, not leaving twi and declared how I was going to do "such and such" instead of thanking God for what He had done and for who He is.
lyrics-wise, stuff that I wrote was usually regurgitated PFAL drivel – but music-wise I thought my tunes had an interesting mix of funk, psychedelic rock and R&B…My muse was kinda sidetracked to create tunes that had TWI-appeal – and to be honest, I considered the lyrics secondary anyway – I usually aimed to compose something musically interesting. Throwing words together is still a challenge for me.
…anyway… the assistant corps coordinator wanted us to submit copies of the lyrics for any original tunes that we wanted to play…now here comes the “good part”.
He comes back to us during one of our practices. And he okays his, his, and his original tunes – mentioning only one little recommendation here and there. Then he gets to mine and launches a full-blown extended play critique in front of the whole band…he’d read a line and say “why did you put it that way?” I think it would be more right on with The Word if you said… blah, blah, blah” by the time he got through the second verse his voice was just a drone in the background – I mean geesh – I didn’t think you could get anymore PFAL-pungent than my songs…but this guy outdid me by a mile! I was melting with embarrassment. I tuned him out and never wrote another song for TWI.
First off, that really sucks. I had similar experiences when I was in residence with being recruited to play guitar for the in-rez way productions group (I messed up and took a guitar in residence) and being micromanaged but egads.....being ripped in front of a group over something you wrote is awful. It's hard enoug for an artist to share what they make at times, but to be publicly shamed by some @$$hat. Yeah not cool.
I think this comes about by being managed by zealous non-musical types. Music is art, inspiration and creativity. That can really only be encouraged, not micromanaged. As soon as you take the joy of creativity out of the equation, it's a wrap. I fully understand there is a lot of discipline that goes with writing music, practice, patience, etc - not all fun and games - it's work. But if you squash people creativity then at best you get studio muscicians going through a rote performance. I feel that has happened to way productions a loooong time before I came around in the 90s.
Also, one of my biggest pet peeves with these guys is the thinking that the lyrics are the most important part of the song. So when they mix the music, whether live or recording, they ALWAYS overshadow the band with the cheezy foot lyrics. They say that the lyrics are the most important part because they are singing God's word....yeah....ok. T-bone, I think we are similar in how we approach song writing. As a lead guitarist I would come up with an arrangement and then lay a lot of lead type work over the rhythm to add some "color" to the arragngement. Of course leaving room for lyrics. My lead work during verses mostly consists of alternate chord arrangements, triads, and of course a tasty riff here and there to emphasize parts of the lyrics. TWI allows for none of that. I managed to get that off in-residence because I would just start adding intricate guitar work over the rhythm and everyone loved it. However, if you try to explain to them in advance what you want to do then it get's shut down....Im rambling a bit...but I think I make some kind of sense...somewhere...somehow...lol
When I was in a writing partnership, in my pre-twi days, my primary role was mainly to contribute lyrics. I can't tell you how deflating it was to have my creativity denigrated and redefined. I wish I could tell you the spark came back, but it never really did, at least, not in the same manner. But, I found other outlets to express myself.
When I was in a writing partnership, in my pre-twi days, my primary role was mainly to contribute lyrics. I can't tell you how deflating it was to have my creativity denigrated and redefined. I wish I could tell you the spark came back, but it never really did, at least, not in the same manner. But, I found other outlets to express myself.
Im not really the same either. I still play my guitar but lack basic motivation, really, it's not fun to me anylonger like it used to be. Not sure I can blame TWI but I think my past experiences in TWI and playing music for them is a contributing factor for sure.
First off, that really sucks. I had similar experiences when I was in residence with being recruited to play guitar for the in-rez way productions group (I messed up and took a guitar in residence) and being micromanaged but egads.....being ripped in front of a group over something you wrote is awful. It's hard enoug for an artist to share what they make at times, but to be publicly shamed by some @$$hat. Yeah not cool.
I think this comes about by being managed by zealous non-musical types. Music is art, inspiration and creativity. That can really only be encouraged, not micromanaged. As soon as you take the joy of creativity out of the equation, it's a wrap. I fully understand there is a lot of discipline that goes with writing music, practice, patience, etc - not all fun and games - it's work. But if you squash people creativity then at best you get studio muscicians going through a rote performance. I feel that has happened to way productions a loooong time before I came around in the 90s.
Also, one of my biggest pet peeves with these guys is the thinking that the lyrics are the most important part of the song. So when they mix the music, whether live or recording, they ALWAYS overshadow the band with the cheezy foot lyrics. They say that the lyrics are the most important part because they are singing God's word....yeah....ok. T-bone, I think we are similar in how we approach song writing. As a lead guitarist I would come up with an arrangement and then lay a lot of lead type work over the rhythm to add some "color" to the arragngement. Of course leaving room for lyrics. My lead work during verses mostly consists of alternate chord arrangements, triads, and of course a tasty riff here and there to emphasize parts of the lyrics. TWI allows for none of that. I managed to get that off in-residence because I would just start adding intricate guitar work over the rhythm and everyone loved it. However, if you try to explain to them in advance what you want to do then it get's shut down....Im rambling a bit...but I think I make some kind of sense...somewhere...somehow...lol
6 hours ago, waysider said:
When I was in a writing partnership, in my pre-twi days, my primary role was mainly to contribute lyrics. I can't tell you how deflating it was to have my creativity denigrated and redefined. I wish I could tell you the spark came back, but it never really did, at least, not in the same manner. But, I found other outlets to express myself.
OldSkool & Waysider thanks for your thoughtful posts!
OldSkool, I’ve always got into doing arrangements too. Before TWI, besides originals I’d get into adapting a composition with different instruments or time signatures. For instance, I orchestrated Had to Cry Today by Blind Faith into a peppy Jazzy instrumental featuring the flute. It sounded so different from the original - folks would often compliment the band on our creativity - but I'd always fess up and tell them it's my arrangement of Had To Cry Today.
It hits home what you said about it being hard enough for an artist to share what they make. Besides criticism – I think there also can be the temptation to cater to fan’s expectations – instead of trying out something new that is very different from what you did before…instead of being creative one stays repetitive and sticks to proven formulas…
~ ~ ~ ~
hey, to end on a high note I still goof around on the bass and compose too – fun little hobby, that keeps me amused and out of trouble. I have a Behringer 8 channel mixer . I plug my bass into one input and earphone cable my iPhone music into another input – with headphones I can mix the two just right so I can play along with my favorite tunes or figure out the bass line to a song I want to learn. I also have a Korg D3200 32-Track Digital Recording Studio which allows me to record multiple tracks – so I can add keyboards, “drums” and other instruments with my nifty cheapo Casio CTK-431 electronic keyboard…I work those keys just like I do on a typewriter – I hunt-and-peck.
Waysider, maybe you’re the lyricist I never had. Thinking of just a few of the many songwriter collaborations I’ve admired (Burt Bacharach/Hal David, Lennon & McCartney, Elton John/Bernie Taupin, Jack Bruce/Pete Brown) my interest is often irresistibly drawn to deconstructing how the song was made – what came first the chicken or the egg? On really good songs – the mesh of music and lyrics seems seamless to me…I’m happy just making melodies, rhythms, and moods – maybe I’m not so much a frustrated poet but in need of an articulate collaborator. I really appreciate your openness and honesty – when you said you found other outlets to express yourself, I think Grease Spot is one of them – and I really admire your work. You communicate ideas and feelings so succinctly – it gives me a standard to shoot for…someday to the relief of others I might get there ...seriously though I find Grease Spot is great for me to learn how to better express myself too. Not that I want to write the perfect lyrics to a tune – but just get better at what I want to say when exchanging ideas.
On 4/3/2022 at 3:57 PM, OldSkool said:
Dude....the main opening riff and subsequent verses are heavily inspired by Rod Stewart.
Okay – back to the main topic
Holy crap! I listened to Rod Stewart’s tune and then relistened to TWI’s family video – and you’re right VERY SIMILAR in riffs, tempo, phrasing…and now it’s driving me crazy – the tune is starting to remind me of another song – just can’t place it – not a genre I’m familiar with – maybe 80’s British group – I asked Tonto to give a listen and she said it had an 80’s British vibe.
I watched it again on You Tube and noticed the comment section is turned off…don’t know if there’s anything to that – but I’m always leery of movies that are not released for early viewing for movie critics. Do the producers have little confidence in the film?
In an film product placement is important – and I noticed several times you get a clear shot of the PFAL books on a shelf in the background…the only thing missing was a picture of wierwille on the wall…hmmmm…makes me think of a British tune – Daddy Wasn’t There…listen to this tune about the 2:38 mark Austin refers to deadbeat dads – yeah “our father in da verd” might fit that description – deadbeat dad – a father who neglects his parental responsibilities to the extent of evading, even court-ordered child support obligations or custody arrangements…anyway enjoy this video:
OldSkool & Waysider thanks for your thoughtful posts!
OldSkool, I’ve always got into doing arrangements too. Before TWI, besides originals I’d get into adapting a composition with different instruments or time signatures. For instance, I orchestrated Had to Cry Today by Blind Faith into a peppy Jazzy instrumental featuring the flute. It sounded so different from the original - folks would often compliment the band on our creativity - but I'd always fess up and tell them it's my arrangement of Had To Cry Today.
It hits home what you said about it being hard enough for an artist to share what they make. Besides criticism – I think there also can be the temptation to cater to fan’s expectations – instead of trying out something new that is very different from what you did before…instead of being creative one stays repetitive and sticks to proven formulas…
~ ~ ~ ~
hey, to end on a high note I still goof around on the bass and compose too – fun little hobby, that keeps me amused and out of trouble. I have a Behringer 8 channel mixer . I plug my bass into one input and earphone cable my iPhone music into another input – with headphones I can mix the two just right so I can play along with my favorite tunes or figure out the bass line to a song I want to learn. I also have a Korg D3200 32-Track Digital Recording Studio which allows me to record multiple tracks – so I can add keyboards, “drums” and other instruments with my nifty cheapo Casio CTK-431 electronic keyboard…I work those keys just like I do on a typewriter – I hunt-and-peck.
Waysider, maybe you’re the lyricist I never had. Thinking of just a few of the many songwriter collaborations I’ve admired (Burt Bacharach/Hal David, Lennon & McCartney, Elton John/Bernie Taupin, Jack Bruce/Pete Brown) my interest is often irresistibly drawn to deconstructing how the song was made – what came first the chicken or the egg? On really good songs – the mesh of music and lyrics seems seamless to me…I’m happy just making melodies, rhythms, and moods – maybe I’m not so much a frustrated poet but in need of an articulate collaborator. I really appreciate your openness and honesty – when you said you found other outlets to express yourself, I think Grease Spot is one of them – and I really admire your work. You communicate ideas and feelings so succinctly – it gives me a standard to shoot for…someday to the relief of others I might get there ...seriously though I find Grease Spot is great for me to learn how to better express myself too. Not that I want to write the perfect lyrics to a tune – but just get better at what I want to say when exchanging ideas.
Okay – back to the main topic
Holy crap! I listened to Rod Stewart’s tune and then relistened to TWI’s family video – and you’re right VERY SIMILAR in riffs, tempo, phrasing…and now it’s driving me crazy – the tune is starting to remind me of another song – just can’t place it – not a genre I’m familiar with – maybe 80’s British group – I asked Tonto to give a listen and she said it had an 80’s British vibe.
I watched it again on You Tube and noticed the comment section is turned off…don’t know if there’s anything to that – but I’m always leery of movies that are not released for early viewing for movie critics. Do the producers have little confidence in the film?
In an film product placement is important – and I noticed several times you get a clear shot of the PFAL books on a shelf in the background…the only thing missing was a picture of wierwille on the wall…hmmmm…makes me think of a British tune – Daddy Wasn’t There…listen to this tune about the 2:38 mark Austin refers to deadbeat dads – yeah “our father in da verd” might fit that description – deadbeat dad – a father who neglects his parental responsibilities to the extent of evading, even court-ordered child support obligations or custody arrangements…anyway enjoy this video:
I enjoyed reading along, my friend. I bet you have some really cools sounding music.
Catering to fans expectations is really common. I think TWI is pigeon holed in that category. You know what to expect when you take in a STS. It's the same basic format for years now. I do give credit where it is due. Their services are polished to the hilt, complete with ear to ear smiles for all the musical performers. But they don't look at music as praise and worship. To the way, way productions is to prepare the audience to receive the teaching that is to follow. I have to admit I really have no idea what in the heck that means.
Careful on that Rod Stewart/Way Prod. comparison. I caught an earbug off that. When I first pulled up Rod Stewart and compared to the way productions piece I couldn't shake the melody for a few days...ear bug!
Their services are polished to the hilt, complete with ear to ear smiles for all the musical performers. But they don't look at music as praise and worship. To the way, way productions is to prepare the audience to receive the teaching that is to follow. I have to admit I really have no idea what in the heck that means.
Well... one thing it apparently is NOT: about God.
I enjoyed reading along, my friend. I bet you have some really cools sounding music.
Catering to fans expectations is really common. I think TWI is pigeon holed in that category. You know what to expect when you take in a STS. It's the same basic format for years now. I do give credit where it is due. Their services are polished to the hilt, complete with ear to ear smiles for all the musical performers. But they don't look at music as praise and worship. To the way, way productions is to prepare the audience to receive the teaching that is to follow. I have to admit I really have no idea what in the heck that means.
Careful on that Rod Stewart/Way Prod. comparison. I caught an earbug off that. When I first pulled up Rod Stewart and compared to the way productions piece I couldn't shake the melody for a few days...ear bug!
But they don't look at music as praise and worship. To the way, way productions is to prepare the audience to receive the teaching that is to follow. I have to admit I really have no idea what in the heck that means.
According to my ex-TWI-secret decoder ring it means praise and worship are subtly redirected to "The Teacher".
I should have mentioned I was NOT knocking the tunes – Rod’s or TWI’s…and I know what you mean about getting an earbug – I actually liked TWI’s Family Music Video – the tune that is.
Uh oh another off-topic moment coming on
Speaking of earbugs – one day in 1974 my clock radio woke me up to The Lord’s Prayer by Sister Janet Mead (she passed away Jan. 2022 at age 84) – holy psychedelic rock, Guitar Man (aka OldSkool) ! The song stuck with me for days ! I still love this song – got it on my iPhone on an inspirational playlist I made titled Need A Lift? – anyway…here’s a blast from the past:
if you watch this on You Tube - read all the comments under it - she donated all royalties from this song to charities.
I am also wondering if the assistant way corps coordinator would have had a problem with the lyrics of The Lord's Prayer.
Recommended Posts
T-Bone
what's pretty amazing is that the drummer got that one single pillow to sound like an entire drum kit!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I'm really confused. The cars appear to be new but the music seems to be from 40 years ago. It would be more believable if they at least made an effort to smile a bit more.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
The lyrics seem to focus on the highlighting the sense of belonging, rather than about God.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Dude....the main opening riff and subsequent verses are heavily inspired by Rod Stewart.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
YES!! I noticed that too.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Hey, that's unfair. There is a bit about Eph 4:32 in the middle, in the "fellowship meeting."
But, oh, the chorus. EG around 3:30 I think they're singing "We can all fellowship" or some such. Sounds more like "We can't all give a sh!t." Or maybe that's the Cafe version.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Jesus wept.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Isn't that special?!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
They do get more and more out of touch with what connects in the world. That was a cringe worthy display.
Contrast it with the Christian group that won a Grammy last night.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Nice, Chocky.
Our little singing group at our church produces a great sound, made by passionate singers. Puts the Way lot to shame. Hey, come and learn, Wayfers!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Since leaving TWI I have been to quite a few churches from all walks of life. Most predominatly, African American churches that I've been to call their "Way Productions" praise and worship. I've seen some really inspiring performances ranging from interpretive dance to various size bands and styles of music. Im not pointing out way productions to be a jerk and rip on people who otherwise mean well in their efforts. Im putting it on here because instead of singing praises to the Lord they reinforce the cult liffestyle and cult isolation with their music. If you pay attention to way production lyrics the cult lifestyle reinforcement becomes really clear. The song that I posted just happens to be a shining example of what I am talking about. Im reminded of a vocal section from an older way productions song from the late 90s.
Now I have heard a limited amount of old way productions from Pressed Down, and some others where I don't remember the group names. At one time they really had some good talent and a decent product so to speak. I think what happened to way productions (in part) is that it was micro-managed for so long by Wierwille, Craig, Rosalie, etc. Micromanaged by NON-MUSICIANS for so long that it's just gotten worse and worse over the years. The directors heavily micromanage anything coming out of the auditorium and that is directly related to the Allen lawsuit and efforts to remain lawsuit proof. They do not want anything said or sung that could be used in court. Anywho, the directors are largely out of touch with whats going on outside of TWI's microcosm and it shows in their music productions and teachings. Again, I'm not trying to be a butthole here either, there's substance to what I am pointing out. Also I am an accomplished musician in my own right. Been playing guitar since I was 12 (Ill be 50 next year), have played professionally when I was much younger, have played multiple styles, been to an accredited music school with a jazz based curriculim. But hey!...what do I know...lol
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
This is strictly my opinion, but I kinda feel like some of the really early groups came into the ministry with an already established, solid catalog. Then, they adapted it and reconfigured it make it align with the Way agenda. (I used to write a bit of music in my "old man" days. That's basically what I did. Instead of continuing to be creative, I revamped old material to make it "on the word".) When it was time to produce new material, the agenda superceded the music, which is why it sounds artificial. There might be a few of the originators still around to comment on that. I don't Know if any of them post here, other than Socks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Yeah, I can relate to your points, Waysider…musically, I was fairly active with the ministry before I went into the corps. We had a band that played at coffee houses, dances, branch, and limb functions; played original stuff, ministry tunes but also covered some “worldly” popular tunes so believers had something familiar to dance to.
When I went into the corps after a certain amount of time, they let musicians bring in their instruments. I’ve told this story before – and I ought to write a song about it sometime and call it “The Way Corps Killed My Muse” …anyway us 1st year in residence corps put a band together – and a few of us wanted to play some of our own originals.
lyrics-wise, stuff that I wrote was usually regurgitated PFAL drivel – but music-wise I thought my tunes had an interesting mix of funk, psychedelic rock and R&B…My muse was kinda sidetracked to create tunes that had TWI-appeal – and to be honest, I considered the lyrics secondary anyway – I usually aimed to compose something musically interesting. Throwing words together is still a challenge for me.
…anyway… the assistant corps coordinator wanted us to submit copies of the lyrics for any original tunes that we wanted to play…now here comes the “good part”.
He comes back to us during one of our practices. And he okays his, his, and his original tunes – mentioning only one little recommendation here and there. Then he gets to mine and launches a full-blown extended play critique in front of the whole band…he’d read a line and say “why did you put it that way?” I think it would be more right on with The Word if you said… blah, blah, blah” by the time he got through the second verse his voice was just a drone in the background – I mean geesh – I didn’t think you could get anymore PFAL-pungent than my songs…but this guy outdid me by a mile! I was melting with embarrassment. I tuned him out and never wrote another song for TWI.
I should have cranked my bass amp up to 11 and pounded out the bass line to Another One Bites the Dust to rain holy terror on his poor defenseless ears… that’s the day my muse bit the dust.
TWI’s agenda tended to subjugate anyone’s creativity and originality…Every once and awhile I think of the road not taken…but I have no regrets…don’t think I’d like being a traveling musician – even before I joined TWI, I thought about that…I’m a boring homebody – if anything I’d probably would have been happy being a studio bassist. 9 to 5 and get home in time to watch The Muppet Show.
Uhm… getting back to your thoughts…I agree with you on the really early bands having their own solid sound…before the ministry’s great-cheesy-homogenizer became self-aware…ooooooh shades of Skynet…cue The Terminator music.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
thanks Rocky
eat my decibels, assistant way corps coordinator !!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
penguin2
Wild since supposedly twi has a tiktok and you tube accounts and people are really impressed to the point they are asking where fellowships are. I think they saw a remake of God first.
I got involved in twigs so early that I didn't know what "worship" was until I left. Two songs by my day definitely just reiterated teachings, not leaving twi and declared how I was going to do "such and such" instead of thanking God for what He had done and for who He is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
First off, that really sucks. I had similar experiences when I was in residence with being recruited to play guitar for the in-rez way productions group (I messed up and took a guitar in residence) and being micromanaged but egads.....being ripped in front of a group over something you wrote is awful. It's hard enoug for an artist to share what they make at times, but to be publicly shamed by some @$$hat. Yeah not cool.
I think this comes about by being managed by zealous non-musical types. Music is art, inspiration and creativity. That can really only be encouraged, not micromanaged. As soon as you take the joy of creativity out of the equation, it's a wrap. I fully understand there is a lot of discipline that goes with writing music, practice, patience, etc - not all fun and games - it's work. But if you squash people creativity then at best you get studio muscicians going through a rote performance. I feel that has happened to way productions a loooong time before I came around in the 90s.
Also, one of my biggest pet peeves with these guys is the thinking that the lyrics are the most important part of the song. So when they mix the music, whether live or recording, they ALWAYS overshadow the band with the cheezy foot lyrics. They say that the lyrics are the most important part because they are singing God's word....yeah....ok. T-bone, I think we are similar in how we approach song writing. As a lead guitarist I would come up with an arrangement and then lay a lot of lead type work over the rhythm to add some "color" to the arragngement. Of course leaving room for lyrics. My lead work during verses mostly consists of alternate chord arrangements, triads, and of course a tasty riff here and there to emphasize parts of the lyrics. TWI allows for none of that. I managed to get that off in-residence because I would just start adding intricate guitar work over the rhythm and everyone loved it. However, if you try to explain to them in advance what you want to do then it get's shut down....Im rambling a bit...but I think I make some kind of sense...somewhere...somehow...lol
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
When I was in a writing partnership, in my pre-twi days, my primary role was mainly to contribute lyrics. I can't tell you how deflating it was to have my creativity denigrated and redefined. I wish I could tell you the spark came back, but it never really did, at least, not in the same manner. But, I found other outlets to express myself.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Im not really the same either. I still play my guitar but lack basic motivation, really, it's not fun to me anylonger like it used to be. Not sure I can blame TWI but I think my past experiences in TWI and playing music for them is a contributing factor for sure.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
OldSkool & Waysider thanks for your thoughtful posts!
OldSkool, I’ve always got into doing arrangements too. Before TWI, besides originals I’d get into adapting a composition with different instruments or time signatures. For instance, I orchestrated Had to Cry Today by Blind Faith into a peppy Jazzy instrumental featuring the flute. It sounded so different from the original - folks would often compliment the band on our creativity - but I'd always fess up and tell them it's my arrangement of Had To Cry Today.
It hits home what you said about it being hard enough for an artist to share what they make. Besides criticism – I think there also can be the temptation to cater to fan’s expectations – instead of trying out something new that is very different from what you did before…instead of being creative one stays repetitive and sticks to proven formulas…
~ ~ ~ ~
hey, to end on a high note I still goof around on the bass and compose too – fun little hobby, that keeps me amused and out of trouble. I have a Behringer 8 channel mixer . I plug my bass into one input and earphone cable my iPhone music into another input – with headphones I can mix the two just right so I can play along with my favorite tunes or figure out the bass line to a song I want to learn. I also have a Korg D3200 32-Track Digital Recording Studio which allows me to record multiple tracks – so I can add keyboards, “drums” and other instruments with my nifty cheapo Casio CTK-431 electronic keyboard…I work those keys just like I do on a typewriter – I hunt-and-peck.
Waysider, maybe you’re the lyricist I never had. Thinking of just a few of the many songwriter collaborations I’ve admired (Burt Bacharach/Hal David, Lennon & McCartney, Elton John/Bernie Taupin, Jack Bruce/Pete Brown) my interest is often irresistibly drawn to deconstructing how the song was made – what came first the chicken or the egg? On really good songs – the mesh of music and lyrics seems seamless to me…I’m happy just making melodies, rhythms, and moods – maybe I’m not so much a frustrated poet but in need of an articulate collaborator. I really appreciate your openness and honesty – when you said you found other outlets to express yourself, I think Grease Spot is one of them – and I really admire your work. You communicate ideas and feelings so succinctly – it gives me a standard to shoot for…someday to the relief of others I might get there
Okay – back to the main topic
Holy crap! I listened to Rod Stewart’s tune and then relistened to TWI’s family video – and you’re right VERY SIMILAR in riffs, tempo, phrasing…and now it’s driving me crazy – the tune is starting to remind me of another song – just can’t place it – not a genre I’m familiar with – maybe 80’s British group – I asked Tonto to give a listen and she said it had an 80’s British vibe.
I watched it again on You Tube and noticed the comment section is turned off…don’t know if there’s anything to that – but I’m always leery of movies that are not released for early viewing for movie critics. Do the producers have little confidence in the film?
In an film product placement is important – and I noticed several times you get a clear shot of the PFAL books on a shelf in the background…the only thing missing was a picture of wierwille on the wall…hmmmm…makes me think of a British tune – Daddy Wasn’t There…listen to this tune about the 2:38 mark Austin refers to deadbeat dads – yeah “our father in da verd” might fit that description – deadbeat dad – a father who neglects his parental responsibilities to the extent of evading, even court-ordered child support obligations or custody arrangements…anyway enjoy this video:
Edited by T-BoneEditor wasn't there
Link to comment
Share on other sites
frank123lol
The Brady Brunch gone wrong
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
I enjoyed reading along, my friend. I bet you have some really cools sounding music.
Catering to fans expectations is really common. I think TWI is pigeon holed in that category. You know what to expect when you take in a STS. It's the same basic format for years now. I do give credit where it is due. Their services are polished to the hilt, complete with ear to ear smiles for all the musical performers. But they don't look at music as praise and worship. To the way, way productions is to prepare the audience to receive the teaching that is to follow. I have to admit I really have no idea what in the heck that means.
Careful on that Rod Stewart/Way Prod. comparison. I caught an earbug off that. When I first pulled up Rod Stewart and compared to the way productions piece I couldn't shake the melody for a few days...ear bug!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Well... one thing it apparently is NOT: about God.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
But they don't look at music as praise and worship. To the way, way productions is to prepare the audience to receive the teaching that is to follow. I have to admit I really have no idea what in the heck that means.
According to my ex-TWI-secret decoder ring it means praise and worship are subtly redirected to "The Teacher".
I should have mentioned I was NOT knocking the tunes – Rod’s or TWI’s…and I know what you mean about getting an earbug – I actually liked TWI’s Family Music Video – the tune that is.
Uh oh another off-topic moment coming on
Speaking of earbugs – one day in 1974 my clock radio woke me up to The Lord’s Prayer by Sister Janet Mead (she passed away Jan. 2022 at age 84) – holy psychedelic rock, Guitar Man (aka OldSkool) ! The song stuck with me for days ! I still love this song – got it on my iPhone on an inspirational playlist I made titled Need A Lift? – anyway…here’s a blast from the past:
if you watch this on You Tube - read all the comments under it - she donated all royalties from this song to charities.
I am also wondering if the assistant way corps coordinator would have had a problem with the lyrics of The Lord's Prayer.
Edited by T-Bonerevision
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.