Further, from a rationality standpoint, how much review of your book has been subject to review by biblical scholars? I ask because one of Prof Pinker's main points is that none of us on our own necessarily gets close enough to being rational. We rely on a collaborative relationship with other people to identify and help correct our fallacies. That's why academics and scientists must submit their work for peer review before publication in credible journals.
I do not have a special title of religious authority like the Pharisees and Sadducees had in the first century. Instead, I use a VERY GOOD biblical study software program to help me with my research, with biblical references from many people with a number of different bible versions. My reference sources include the definitions of original Greek words from people who obviously knew the Koine Greek language that most of the New Testament was translated from. Below is a link to a person named Jonathan Mitchell who is in the state of Arizona. I think you know where that state is without having to massage your head like all of humanity may sometimes need to do. Jonathan has done a New Testament translation from the original Koine Greek language. I communicated with him at a Zoom meeting last year and then sent him a draft copy of my first chapter titled, “How the Bible Can Be Studied with Sources of Reference”. This is perhaps the chapter of the subject that I know the least amount because this includes the Koine Greek language. His response by email was the following.
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Hello Mark, good to hear from you.I enjoyed meeting you on Zoom, yesterday.
Thank you for sharing your first chapter with me, I enjoyed reading it last night.This book should really help folks who are desiring truth.You have made a good presentation.
I wonder, should Jonathan Mitchell apologize to people today that have religious authority like I do NOT have that includes the title “Reverend”, for giving me a compliment regarding my biblical teaching book? Do you know how many times the word “Reverend” is used in the New Testament from the following versions? King James Version, New King James Version, New International Version, American Standard Version, Douay-Rheims Bible and Young’s Literal Translation. ZERO times! In the chapter titled “Lordship of Jesus Christ Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man”, I explain how the word “Reverend” is used even in the Old Testament.
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Paul, Peter, John, Timothy, Titus, or any of the other followers and laborers of Christ are ever called lord in the New Testament. They were never given the title Reverend, thus separating them from other believers. In fact, the word reverend is never used in the New Testament in any versions of the bible that are quoted from in this book. The only usage of the word reverend is in Psalms 111:9 from the (KJV) and (ASV). This usage exalts the Lord God. However, this Hebrew word with 328 usages in the Old Testament as represented by Strong’s OT:3372 is mostly used in a negative way and is often translated as fear, feared, afraid or terrible. I wonder, should we fear a person with the title Reverend? Perhaps only if they have a security guard who is big and strong. I could simply tell them to please be peaceful and follow the example of Jesus Christ. I might even tell them to wag more, bark less, while really liking dogs. When I meet dogs, I often want to pet them, as long as they wag their tales and don’t bark.
I wonder since like other denominations, the Way International uses the title Reverend for their leaders. Should we glorify people that have that title? I do NOT think so. I would rather base my Christian views from the bible.
WOW, it looks like we even know where our head's are and I even see your head now. Rocky, you just inspired me to email Jonathan Mitchell and this could be primarily marketing. Regarding learning from people I perhaps have learned from hundreds or even thousands of people through a very good biblical study software program that I have on my computers that has many sources of reference. http://www.biblesoft.com/
WOW, it looks like we even know where our head's are and I even see your head now. Rocky, you just inspired me to email Jonathan Mitchell and this could be primarily marketing. Regarding learning from people I perhaps have learned from hundreds or even thousands of people through a very good biblical study software program that I have on my computers that has many sources of reference. http://www.biblesoft.com/
Keep learning... and keep expanding your imagination. God is bigger than the Bible.
I have to be honest - I’ve been struggling with this synchronicity topic – after reviewing Bolen’s book and a couple of other books on Taoism I have on Kindle – and a deep -study of the Greek word Logos – I just wanted to add my 2 cents on some things.
Now don’t get me wrong – I really really really enjoy checking this stuff out – but some of these ideas are so tantalizing in that I get the concepts – and I do like the concepts - but to actually know I’m experiencing it seems unobtainable sometimes – not sure if I’m expressing myself clearly enough…I think since I left TWI I’ve been kinda “gun-shy” on stuff that I consider spiritual… metaphysical…gun-shy…I mean just being hesitant or wary of stuff like that after being disappointed so often in TWI…I feel like a spiritual dullard most of the time…not that sensitive…not as observant or aware of intangibles as I should be…so I tend to make up for it by being super-analytical of what’s right in front of me – like a book - stuff I can see.
In TWI I had the Gnostic-tendency to strive for being book-smart (trying to master “The Word” and PFAL books) which was mostly a theoretical understanding of select Scriptures, some facts, half-truths, half-baked lies, distorted facts, legends of a cult-leader, fabrications, myths, speculative ideas and spiritual-sounding-nonsense…you know, spinning-your-wheels-type-of- stuff…
I think “mastering” synchronicity - if there is such a thing - might be somewhat like street-smart - referring to EXPERIENTIAL knowledge on things…PRACTICAL knowledge! Something useful!
Some key points I got from Bolen’s book, Taoism and deep-study of Logos: Tao in Chinese philosophy is the absolute principle underlying the universe, combining within itself the principles of yin and yang and signifying the way, or code of behavior, that is in harmony with the natural order. The interpretation of Tao in the Tao-te-Ching developed into the philosophical religion of Taoism…That makes me think of the Logos in John 1:1 which combined powerful concepts of the ancient world.
The Jews were entirely familiar with the all-powerful word of God…” And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.” Genesis 1:3
The Greeks were familiar with the thought of reason. They looked at this world; They saw a magnificent and dependable order. Night and day came with unfailing regularity; the year kept its seasons in unvarying order; the stars and planets moved in their unaltering path; nature had unvarying laws. What produced this order? The Greeks answered unhesitatingly, the Logos, the mind of God, is responsible for the majestic order of the world…what fascinates me about Tao and the Greek concept of Logos is that it sounds to me like they both might be referencing something similar though they are cultures and worlds apart.
Bolen’s book says of synchronicity and Tao: the simultaneous occurrence of events which appear significantly related but have no discernible causal connection. Synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine. Synchronistic experiences leave us with a curious sense that we should pay attention…
What is known intuitively, through experience of the Tao, is that we are not lonely, isolated, insignificant, and meaningless creatures, accidentally evolved from organic rubbish on a miniscule dot in the vast cosmos. Instead, the Tao experience gives us the direct knowledge that we are linked to all others and to the universe, through that which underlies everything and which some call God.
Synchronistic events are glimpses into this underlying oneness, which is the meaning conveyed through an uncanny coincidence. The unseen linkage moves us; the synchronistic event tells us we are not alone……An uncanny, meaningful coincidence seems to lead to an awareness of an underlying connecting principle, as synchronistic events evoke an intuitively felt spiritual reality. Conversely, becoming spiritually centered, in touch with the Tao, is associated with the occurrence of positive synchronistic events. Being in touch with the Tao seems to prompt an easy flow of outer events through synchronicity. This is the message of religious teachings in both East and West: Seek spiritual values first; whatever is tangibly needed will follow after.
~ ~ ~ ~
Jumping around on ideas…
Another thing that is humbling to think about: the subtle difference between Tao/The Logos/synchronicity, and the TWI-mindset regarding magical-thinking. With the former YOU are NOT in control – but in the latter (the TWI-mindset) you ASSUME YOU ARE in control…For me the TWI-mindset was usually self-centered but as Bolen put it: Synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine.
…In TWI I had this weird idea that life was governed by MY believing and I strived to be very specific with pinpoint accuracy in my prayers and goal-setting – I probably missed a lot of golden opportunities and alternate solutions to my problems…In general I could not see the forest for the trees - meaning I was usually more focused on the individual trees/obstacles/challenges right in front of me rather than an overview of the whole forest…where I might catch a glimpse of other options in play or alternate avenues to pursue what I wanted.
Is there such a thing as the Tao of Prayer?
In TWI, I used to have this vague notion that speaking in tongues would take care of everything. But things never worked out that way – leaving me frustrated and disappointed…even after leaving TWI and being more occupied with MINDFUL PRAYERS (prayer in my understanding) – I still needed to lighten up on my concern of EXACTLY HOW God SHOULD help – and instead just be thankful He said we should ask for His help…it was probably the cumulative effect of reading/hearing lots of non-TWI teachings on prayer that one idea finally sunk in…When we pray, God DOES HEAR our prayers – and He ANSWERS our prayers in a time and manner as He sees fit and maybe not always in a way or time we expect…maybe there’s a synchronicity in prayer that I should be more aware of.
Now here’s the TWI-egotistical-spin on things. If synchronicity is the simultaneous occurrence of events which appear significantly related but have no discernible causal connection, then you can bet there’s probably some gung-ho TWI-follower saying “yeah that happened because of MY believing” or “that didn’t happen because of YOUR lack of believing.” That kind of thinking basically upended the prospect of God working things out in accordance with His sovereign will and kept us locked in to a feedback loop – where our self-centered outlook was used as input to determine a self-serving agenda…Self-serving bias is a way of thinking that tends to make a person see themselves in an overly favorable manner in order to maintain a high self-esteem. I saw a tendency in TWI-followers – and perhaps we all did it to some degree – inflate the ego - we might not have achieved much by way of principles of PFAL – but in order to promote PFAL or to just be accepted in TWI-culture, we’d magnify…enhance…embellish any accomplishments feeling an increased sense of confidence, superiority, and general arrogance in how we are successful PFAL grads.
One common definition of magical thinking is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them…
...Magical thinking has also been referred to as the omnipotence of thoughts:
“The omnipotence of thoughts, a mechanism particularly favored by obsessive-compulsives…is the unconscious presupposition that the wish is equivalent to the deed and therefore that wishing alone can effect changes in one’s environment independently of any realistic or practical action. Freud believed that in the animistic-magical stage of cultural history, human beings ascribed omnipotence to themselves, while in the religious stage they transferred it to a deity and yet retained the idea that they could influence the god, through prayer and ritual, according to their wishes”
From Dictionary of Pastoral Care and Counseling
Is magical thinking a form of plagiarizing synchronicity? Representing the outworking of synchronicity as one’s own achievement...just goofing around here...wanted to see if you're still with me. ....who's that in the back? I can hear you snoring zzzzZZZZ ZZZzzz
To reiterate what I said earlier – I think it takes humility…patience…courage to admit there is so much that’s beyond our control…and to raise what we value to a higher level – and translate that into action – values like hope, harmony, truth, love, etc.
The elitism…the snobbery of the TWI-mindset was another isolating thing. Typically, we were expected to check with upper leadership before we made any major decisions. To consult with anyone outside of TWI was a no-no. It didn’t matter if it was a friend, family member, professional, someone with expertise who might be able to address your problem – if they were not involved in TWI then their help was considered second-best…not necessary…this goes counter to the experience of the Tao…we are not lonely, isolated, insignificant, and meaningless creatures, accidentally evolved from organic rubbish on a miniscule dot in the vast cosmos. Instead, the Tao experience gives us the direct knowledge that we are linked to all others and to the universe.
I’ve probably learned more about the important things of life from folks outside of TWI and that includes folks who’ve left TWI and escaped the TWI-mental-straightjacket – which includes Grease Spotters, regardless of their current belief system…matter of fact – it’s a great thing that we all don’t think alike.
There’s something about Tao that is selfless…philanthropic! Ya know, I don’t think there was ever an altruistic bone in any upper TWI-leadership…but it feels so good to helps others…my wife and I have made several donations to charities helping the people/children of Ukraine and everyday I remember to say prays for them, Zelensky and his family as well as the US and every other country pitching in to help them. Right before the Russian invasion, our daughter’s best friend who attends the same day-hab went to Poland with her mother – they went to see her grandfather in the hospital – and they’re still there. Of course, we pray for them too.
~ ~ ~ ~
…tuning into the Tao frequency…being more flexible to go with the flow, or perhaps WORK WITH the flow…
…which reminds me of something I heard at a Down syndrome conference (and I know this from personal experience as a parent) – people with Down syndrome usually exhibit obsessive/compulsive tendencies and often the best way to help them overcome – or work through those tendencies is by redirection rather than forcing them to make a complete stop. The conference speaker likened the difference between trying to dam up a mighty flowing river versus changing the course of the river. Yes, it would take some work to redirect it but not a herculean effort like trying to stop a mighty river.
That’s the way I understand Tao - working with the flow…is to try and be more relaxed and accept a situation, rather than trying to take a heavy-handed approach to drastically alter or control it... Our daughter likes to be active most of the time. If we’re watching a movie and she’s not interested in it, she might get up and start vacuuming. So, we’ll redirect her to do something quieter – “why don’t you get your Kindle and do word-search over here by us.” Btw, she’s an ace on word-search – I can tell by how often I hear the little ding when she finds a word…sorry if I’m straying off topic here – but I thought this stuff might relate to Tao and synchronicity…anyway…
As Bolen said: Synchronistic experiences leave us with a curious sense that we should pay attention… the Tao experience gives us the direct knowledge that we are linked to all others and to the universe, through that which underlies everything and which some call God… An uncanny, meaningful coincidence seems to lead to an awareness of an underlying connecting principle, as synchronistic events evoke an intuitively felt spiritual reality…you know what? since I left TWI - I do feel more connected to others...so there’s hope for spiritual dullards like me!
~ ~ ~ ~
Maybe this is synchronicity/Tao-like stuff in the Bible:
I think of Joseph’s comment to his brothers who sold him into slavery Genesis 50:20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.
And Romans 8:28 seems to echo the same idea where it speaks of God’s providence – that He orchestrates events in life to accomplish temporal and/or eternal benefits And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
See also Deuteronomy 8: 15 - 18 - I see a twofold operation here – a pairing of God’s benevolence with our humble acceptance of His goodwill:
15“He led you through the great and terrible wilderness, with its fiery serpents and scorpions and thirsty ground where there was no water; He brought water for you out of the rock of flint. 16“In the wilderness He fed you manna which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and that He might test you, to do good for you in the end. 17“Otherwise, you may say in your heart, ‘My power and the strength of my hand made me this wealth.’ 18“But you shall remember the LORD your God, for it is He who is giving you power to make wealth…
I think that Deuteronomy passage relates to what I referenced of Bolen’s earlier “Synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine.”
Edited by T-Bone Synchronicity is the fifth and final studio album by English rock band the Police, released on 17 June 1983 by A&M Records
I think “mastering” synchronicity - if there is such a thing - might be somewhat like street-smart - referring to EXPERIENTIAL knowledge on things…PRACTICAL knowledge! Something useful!
Mastering synchronicity? I'm not sure that's a useful approach. In TWI, everything seemed to be about the believer mastering believing to make things happen the way s/he wanted (hoped) for them to happen. Synchronicity, as I understand it, is not at all about believing for things to happen.
Letting go (i.e. letting go and letting God) is more the way I understand synchronicity.
Otherwise, I viewed your comment as TL;DR. If you'd like more thoughtful feedback, I would hope you could practice brevity and figure out how to more concisely make your points so that readers would find it less tedious to read.
Mastering synchronicity? I'm not sure that's a useful approach. In TWI, everything seemed to be about the believer mastering believing to make things happen the way s/he wanted (hoped) for them to happen. Synchronicity, as I understand it, is not at all about believing for things to happen.
Letting go (i.e. letting go and letting God) is more the way I understand synchronicity.
Otherwise, I viewed your comment as TL;DR. If you'd like more thoughtful feedback, I would hope you could practice brevity and figure out how to more concisely make your points so that readers would find it less tedious to read.
Rocky, that makes more sense - I think you're right - although in my defense my idea of mastering was to know about something inside and out - emphasizing more of an awareness of synchronicity and if you reread my post you’ll find that is so - cuz I stressed the sovereignty of God and how there is much that is beyond our control-
but
thanks for the feedback...one of these days I'll get the idea
Rocky, that makes more sense - I think you're right - although in my defense my idea of mastering was to know about something inside and out - emphasizing more of an awareness of synchronicity and if you reread my post you’ll find that is so - cuz I stressed the sovereignty of God and how there is much that is beyond our control-
but
thanks for the feedback...one of these days I'll get the idea
My favorite source on synchronicity is a little book of 111 pages:
The Tao of Psychology: Synchronicity and the Self by Jean Shinoda Bolen, M.D.
Pg. 6 - "[C. G.] Jung described synchronicity as an acausal connecting principle that manifests itself through meaningful coincidences. There are no rational explanations for these situations in which a person has a thought, dream, or inner psychological state that coincides with an event."
I think most people try to make meaning out of what happens in life. That, among a few other things, motivates me to write.
I’ve probably overstepped some standards in this forum with my silly musings. I don’t mean to sound like I’ve figured anything out …but discussions about trying to find meaning always fascinates me – I’m always tempted to chime in.
my criteria for finding meaning is more in a state of flux than when I had a TWI-mindset…and I’m the super-cautious type now – so I lean more on hindsight, and use different criteria to reflect on things of the past…
for me, synchronicity in real time - the meaningful coincidence that leads to an awareness of an underlying connecting principle still seems somewhat elusive…
I sometimes think this could be just a big waste of time if there is no higher power…I think I’m always in search of the metaphysical underpinnings of the cosmos - guess I think big ...anyway, in my belief system – at its most basic level – and I could be wrong on this – but I assume we live in a moral universe. The following def. approximates it:
“ A moral universe implies that we live in a basically spiritual universe that is somehow ordered by a higher power, by invisible feelings of good and bad, a 'cosmic order' reminiscent of the early Greeks that underpins and motivates our actions. Or a 'moral force' that means our actions must have definite effects which we carry with us. In this respect its meaning comes close to the Hindu concept of Karma.”
From: Wikipedia - moral universe
Bolen said synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine. What exactly is the divine game plan? That’s what I want to know. I would like to be a team player – for the good guys!
One instance that exemplifies how challenging this topic is for me – and it’s kind of a complicated-twofold-hindsight-versus-synchronicity thing – it’s the Jonestown massacre of 1978. At that time, I was really involved with TWI – and I accepted wierwille’s spin on it – his Sunday Night Teaching tape “The current psychological hoax – inducing men to fear”. If I correctly remember wierwille’s conspiracy theory - it was something along the lines of a military or political black ops that staged the mass murder/suicide to make it look like Jim Jones led the people astray…yeah and in 1978 I bought into wierwille’s switcheroo – his message was beware of the government INSTEAD OF cult-leaders like Jim Jones and BY WAY OF EXTENSION ALL religious leaders who are not mainstream religions – LIKE wierwille…in other words, you must trust wierwille…must trust wierwille…trust wierwille (said as if in a deep hypnotic state ).
Recalling that time in my CURRENT frame of mind changes the significance of the Jonestown massacre…This is one of those if-I knew-then-what-I-know-now-things…what is worthy of attention…what is so revealing in the Jonestown massacre and TWI’s spin on it, is how cult-leaders like wierwille usually try to obscure the underlying connecting principle of really tragic and devastating consequences that can happen in cults. Fundamentally it all goes back to the harmful and controlling cult-leaders…so reevaluating my old mindset of the Jonestown massacre brings forth new significance…new meaning…a new way to evaluate religions – rather than holding to a certain wooden…dogmatic ideology, theories and speculations as a litmus test for orthodoxy – I think I should look more into what morally underpins and motivates a person’s actions.
Feel free to correct me on anything…I’m still trying to figure stuff out…I don’t take it personal – this is just more of my silly musings.
Have a good night all
Edited by T-Bone who has the foresight to predict they’ll need hindsight?
that got me thinking uh oh of one of the first mass exoduses sometime after Chris G read the passing of the patriarch…
Probably off-topic but I thought this might be synchronicity in the rearview mirror…reevaluating simultaneous events of the past...they say hindsight is 20/20. I feel as I continue to reflect on my experiences and observations from 12 years in TWI, that I’m getting a clearer understanding of it all.
for me, I think there was some kind of a delayed reaction – instead of it being an immediate awareness of a significant connection with the patriarch doc and the mass exodus. This time period upended my belief system…and maybe the significant connection was simply the patriarch doc was the tipping point for a lot of other things that had been building up in the minds of a lot of folks...maybe there was something that irked our collective unconsciousness - mentioned in Rocky's first post on this thread.
It is interesting to think about – that some folks for whatever reason were more responsive to the collective unconsciousness…instinctive idealism? Or something…feelings of betrayal…betrayed by an organization that we thought we could trust? instead of solidarity in TWI – a schism develops…TWI tightened up the ranks by the us-versus-them mentality…TWI-followers versus the outside world…now there’s division within. Can the collective unconsciousness ever be at war with the collective consciousness (like group-think) ? ...just thinking out loud.
For me, stuff that the ministry considered low priority or not worthy of my attention I had put into this crock of $hit – this time frame seemed to turn up the heat on a stewpot I had left on the back burner of my mind.
…stuff like all those red flags issued from my logic, common sense, emotions, moral compass, bad experiences, questioning policies, and disappointments that I had accumulated in 12 years of involvement …stuff I had repressed…stuff I was told to “renew my mind to” …stuff I had forgot about…now was becoming a cauldron of pent-up anger, sadness, doubt, frustration, old wounds… and open wounds.
1986 to ’87 was roughly about a year of learning to recognize my belief system was much more than just warm and fuzzy select Scriptures, parroting the ministry’s pious platitudes and regurgitating PFAL principles.
At some point in my slow exit from TWI, I started to realize all that bad stuff was part of my belief system too. In other words, wrong ideas, bad attitudes, misconceptions, bad experiences, etc. are also part of the basis for my outlook on life. And I felt that unless I properly addressed that stuff, that crock of $hit would continue to simmer indefinitely – and who knows what the consequences would be down the road.
Okay maybe this was more of my nonsense…I thought it might have something to do with synchronicity in the rearview mirror – if there is such a thing …reevaluating certain events surrounding something of the past...with a different frame of mind than when I was actually experiencing them at the time.
The deeper significance of synchronicity lies in its demonstration of certain aspects of the collective unconscious, which behaves as if it were one and were not split up into many individuals, animals, and the environment.
Not the same as everybody being unconscious...
I view it more as being responsive to a collective SUBconscious. But what do I know?
I thought it might have something to do with synchronicity in the rearview mirror – if there is such a thing …reevaluating certain events surrounding something of the past...with a different frame of mind than when I was actually experiencing them at the time.
Well... synchronistic events are, as Bolen wrote, subjective. As far as synchronicity in the rearview mirror, I do believe we can and do reevaluate our experiences and memories. Whether that's synchronicity, I couldn't tell.
In the late 1980s, I shared a house with a former wayfer shortly after we both left TWI. He had spent time on staff at HQ and at that time recently divorced. He participated in Re-evaluation counseling, (not with me). As best I could tell, he benefitted from the one-on-one counseling process.
So, T-Bone, it's quite likely your post was off topic to some extent. But in this case, no big deal.
I view it more as being responsive to a collective SUBconscious. But what do I know?
Hope you have a good night's sleep tonight.
Ha – thanks for the correction, Rocky – can’t believe I flubbed those words by adding “ness”…now I feel really subconscious.
11 hours ago, Rocky said:
Well... synchronistic events are, as Bolen wrote, subjective. As far as synchronicity in the rearview mirror, I do believe we can and do reevaluate our experiences and memories. Whether that's synchronicity, I couldn't tell.
In the late 1980s, I shared a house with a former wayfer shortly after we both left TWI. He had spent time on staff at HQ and at that time recently divorced. He participated in Re-evaluation counseling, (not with me). As best I could tell, he benefitted from the one-on-one counseling process.
So, T-Bone, it's quite likely your post was off topic to some extent. But in this case, no big deal.
Thanks for that too. Great reminder on interpreting synchronistic events being subjective…and that’s always a challenge for me…maybe that comes from my self-confidence being whittled away – both before and during my TWI experience…and the more I think about it – in TWI I developed a false sense of confidence – but that’s a whole other topic…this may sound odd – but one of the reasons I come to Grease Spot is not really to validate my own opinions or beliefs – but to affirm it’s normal to feel uncertainty about a lot of things...the longer I live, the more confident I become that there's a lot I don't know.
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Rocky
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Mark Sanguinetti
I do not have a special title of religious authority like the Pharisees and Sadducees had in the first century. Instead, I use a VERY GOOD biblical study software program to help me with my research, with biblical references from many people with a number of different bible versions. My reference sources include the definitions of original Greek words from people who obviously knew the Koine Greek language that most of the New Testament was translated from. Below is a link to a person named Jonathan Mitchell who is in the state of Arizona. I think you know where that state is without having to massage your head like all of humanity may sometimes need to do. Jonathan has done a New Testament translation from the original Koine Greek language. I communicated with him at a Zoom meeting last year and then sent him a draft copy of my first chapter titled, “How the Bible Can Be Studied with Sources of Reference”. This is perhaps the chapter of the subject that I know the least amount because this includes the Koine Greek language. His response by email was the following.
The following is a link to his web site: https://www.jonathanmitchellnewtestament.com/
I wonder, should Jonathan Mitchell apologize to people today that have religious authority like I do NOT have that includes the title “Reverend”, for giving me a compliment regarding my biblical teaching book? Do you know how many times the word “Reverend” is used in the New Testament from the following versions? King James Version, New King James Version, New International Version, American Standard Version, Douay-Rheims Bible and Young’s Literal Translation. ZERO times! In the chapter titled “Lordship of Jesus Christ Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man”, I explain how the word “Reverend” is used even in the Old Testament.
I wonder since like other denominations, the Way International uses the title Reverend for their leaders. Should we glorify people that have that title? I do NOT think so. I would rather base my Christian views from the bible.
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Rocky
I've heard of Arizona.
I don't know Mr Mitchell, but I'm glad you have someone with some academic background to at least bounce ideas off of.
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Mark Sanguinetti
WOW, it looks like we even know where our head's are and I even see your head now. Rocky, you just inspired me to email Jonathan Mitchell and this could be primarily marketing. Regarding learning from people I perhaps have learned from hundreds or even thousands of people through a very good biblical study software program that I have on my computers that has many sources of reference. http://www.biblesoft.com/
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Rocky
Keep learning... and keep expanding your imagination. God is bigger than the Bible.
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T-Bone
I have to be honest - I’ve been struggling with this synchronicity topic – after reviewing Bolen’s book and a couple of other books on Taoism I have on Kindle – and a deep -study of the Greek word Logos – I just wanted to add my 2 cents on some things.
Now don’t get me wrong – I really really really enjoy checking this stuff out – but some of these ideas are so tantalizing in that I get the concepts – and I do like the concepts - but to actually know I’m experiencing it seems unobtainable sometimes – not sure if I’m expressing myself clearly enough…I think since I left TWI I’ve been kinda “gun-shy” on stuff that I consider spiritual… metaphysical…gun-shy…I mean just being hesitant or wary of stuff like that after being disappointed so often in TWI…I feel like a spiritual dullard most of the time…not that sensitive…not as observant or aware of intangibles as I should be…so I tend to make up for it by being super-analytical of what’s right in front of me – like a book - stuff I can see.
In TWI I had the Gnostic-tendency to strive for being book-smart (trying to master “The Word” and PFAL books) which was mostly a theoretical understanding of select Scriptures, some facts, half-truths, half-baked lies, distorted facts, legends of a cult-leader, fabrications, myths, speculative ideas and spiritual-sounding-nonsense…you know, spinning-your-wheels-type-of- stuff…
I think “mastering” synchronicity - if there is such a thing - might be somewhat like street-smart - referring to EXPERIENTIAL knowledge on things…PRACTICAL knowledge! Something useful!
Some key points I got from Bolen’s book, Taoism and deep-study of Logos:
Tao in Chinese philosophy is the absolute principle underlying the universe, combining within itself the principles of yin and yang and signifying the way, or code of behavior, that is in harmony with the natural order. The interpretation of Tao in the Tao-te-Ching developed into the philosophical religion of Taoism…That makes me think of the Logos in John 1:1 which combined powerful concepts of the ancient world.
The Jews were entirely familiar with the all-powerful word of God…” And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.” Genesis 1:3
The Greeks were familiar with the thought of reason. They looked at this world; They saw a magnificent and dependable order. Night and day came with unfailing regularity; the year kept its seasons in unvarying order; the stars and planets moved in their unaltering path; nature had unvarying laws. What produced this order? The Greeks answered unhesitatingly, the Logos, the mind of God, is responsible for the majestic order of the world…what fascinates me about Tao and the Greek concept of Logos is that it sounds to me like they both might be referencing something similar though they are cultures and worlds apart.
Bolen’s book says of synchronicity and Tao: the simultaneous occurrence of events which appear significantly related but have no discernible causal connection. Synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine. Synchronistic experiences leave us with a curious sense that we should pay attention…
What is known intuitively, through experience of the Tao, is that we are not lonely, isolated, insignificant, and meaningless creatures, accidentally evolved from organic rubbish on a miniscule dot in the vast cosmos. Instead, the Tao experience gives us the direct knowledge that we are linked to all others and to the universe, through that which underlies everything and which some call God.
Synchronistic events are glimpses into this underlying oneness, which is the meaning conveyed through an uncanny coincidence. The unseen linkage moves us; the synchronistic event tells us we are not alone……An uncanny, meaningful coincidence seems to lead to an awareness of an underlying connecting principle, as synchronistic events evoke an intuitively felt spiritual reality. Conversely, becoming spiritually centered, in touch with the Tao, is associated with the occurrence of positive synchronistic events. Being in touch with the Tao seems to prompt an easy flow of outer events through synchronicity. This is the message of religious teachings in both East and West: Seek spiritual values first; whatever is tangibly needed will follow after.
~ ~ ~ ~
Jumping around on ideas…
Another thing that is humbling to think about: the subtle difference between Tao/The Logos/synchronicity, and the TWI-mindset regarding magical-thinking. With the former YOU are NOT in control – but in the latter (the TWI-mindset) you ASSUME YOU ARE in control…For me the TWI-mindset was usually self-centered but as Bolen put it: Synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine.
…In TWI I had this weird idea that life was governed by MY believing and I strived to be very specific with pinpoint accuracy in my prayers and goal-setting – I probably missed a lot of golden opportunities and alternate solutions to my problems…In general I could not see the forest for the trees - meaning I was usually more focused on the individual trees/obstacles/challenges right in front of me rather than an overview of the whole forest…where I might catch a glimpse of other options in play or alternate avenues to pursue what I wanted.
Is there such a thing as the Tao of Prayer?
In TWI, I used to have this vague notion that speaking in tongues would take care of everything. But things never worked out that way – leaving me frustrated and disappointed…even after leaving TWI and being more occupied with MINDFUL PRAYERS (prayer in my understanding) – I still needed to lighten up on my concern of EXACTLY HOW God SHOULD help – and instead just be thankful He said we should ask for His help…it was probably the cumulative effect of reading/hearing lots of non-TWI teachings on prayer that one idea finally sunk in…When we pray, God DOES HEAR our prayers – and He ANSWERS our prayers in a time and manner as He sees fit and maybe not always in a way or time we expect…maybe there’s a synchronicity in prayer that I should be more aware of.
Now here’s the TWI-egotistical-spin on things. If synchronicity is the simultaneous occurrence of events which appear significantly related but have no discernible causal connection, then you can bet there’s probably some gung-ho TWI-follower saying “yeah that happened because of MY believing” or “that didn’t happen because of YOUR lack of believing.” That kind of thinking basically upended the prospect of God working things out in accordance with His sovereign will and kept us locked in to a feedback loop – where our self-centered outlook was used as input to determine a self-serving agenda…Self-serving bias is a way of thinking that tends to make a person see themselves in an overly favorable manner in order to maintain a high self-esteem. I saw a tendency in TWI-followers – and perhaps we all did it to some degree – inflate the ego - we might not have achieved much by way of principles of PFAL – but in order to promote PFAL or to just be accepted in TWI-culture, we’d magnify…enhance…embellish any accomplishments feeling an increased sense of confidence, superiority, and general arrogance in how we are successful PFAL grads.
One common definition of magical thinking is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them…
...Magical thinking has also been referred to as the omnipotence of thoughts:
“The omnipotence of thoughts, a mechanism particularly favored by obsessive-compulsives…is the unconscious presupposition that the wish is equivalent to the deed and therefore that wishing alone can effect changes in one’s environment independently of any realistic or practical action. Freud believed that in the animistic-magical stage of cultural history, human beings ascribed omnipotence to themselves, while in the religious stage they transferred it to a deity and yet retained the idea that they could influence the god, through prayer and ritual, according to their wishes”
From Dictionary of Pastoral Care and Counseling
Is magical thinking a form of plagiarizing synchronicity? Representing the outworking of synchronicity as one’s own achievement...just goofing around here...wanted to see if you're still with me.
....who's that in the back? I can hear you snoring zzzzZZZZ 
ZZZzzz
To reiterate what I said earlier – I think it takes humility…patience…courage to admit there is so much that’s beyond our control…and to raise what we value to a higher level – and translate that into action – values like hope, harmony, truth, love, etc.
The elitism…the snobbery of the TWI-mindset was another isolating thing. Typically, we were expected to check with upper leadership before we made any major decisions. To consult with anyone outside of TWI was a no-no. It didn’t matter if it was a friend, family member, professional, someone with expertise who might be able to address your problem – if they were not involved in TWI then their help was considered second-best…not necessary…this goes counter to the experience of the Tao…we are not lonely, isolated, insignificant, and meaningless creatures, accidentally evolved from organic rubbish on a miniscule dot in the vast cosmos. Instead, the Tao experience gives us the direct knowledge that we are linked to all others and to the universe.
I’ve probably learned more about the important things of life from folks outside of TWI and that includes folks who’ve left TWI and escaped the TWI-mental-straightjacket – which includes Grease Spotters, regardless of their current belief system…matter of fact – it’s a great thing that we all don’t think alike.
There’s something about Tao that is selfless…philanthropic! Ya know, I don’t think there was ever an altruistic bone in any upper TWI-leadership…but it feels so good to helps others…my wife and I have made several donations to charities helping the people/children of Ukraine and everyday I remember to say prays for them, Zelensky and his family as well as the US and every other country pitching in to help them. Right before the Russian invasion, our daughter’s best friend who attends the same day-hab went to Poland with her mother – they went to see her grandfather in the hospital – and they’re still there. Of course, we pray for them too.
~ ~ ~ ~
…tuning into the Tao frequency…being more flexible to go with the flow, or perhaps WORK WITH the flow…
…which reminds me of something I heard at a Down syndrome conference (and I know this from personal experience as a parent) – people with Down syndrome usually exhibit obsessive/compulsive tendencies and often the best way to help them overcome – or work through those tendencies is by redirection rather than forcing them to make a complete stop. The conference speaker likened the difference between trying to dam up a mighty flowing river versus changing the course of the river. Yes, it would take some work to redirect it but not a herculean effort like trying to stop a mighty river.
That’s the way I understand Tao - working with the flow…is to try and be more relaxed and accept a situation, rather than trying to take a heavy-handed approach to drastically alter or control it... Our daughter likes to be active most of the time. If we’re watching a movie and she’s not interested in it, she might get up and start vacuuming. So, we’ll redirect her to do something quieter – “why don’t you get your Kindle and do word-search over here by us.” Btw, she’s an ace on word-search – I can tell by how often I hear the little ding when she finds a word…sorry if I’m straying off topic here – but I thought this stuff might relate to Tao and synchronicity…anyway…
As Bolen said: Synchronistic experiences leave us with a curious sense that we should pay attention… the Tao experience gives us the direct knowledge that we are linked to all others and to the universe, through that which underlies everything and which some call God… An uncanny, meaningful coincidence seems to lead to an awareness of an underlying connecting principle, as synchronistic events evoke an intuitively felt spiritual reality…you know what? since I left TWI - I do feel more connected to others...so there’s hope for spiritual dullards like me!
~ ~ ~ ~
Maybe this is synchronicity/Tao-like stuff in the Bible:
I think of Joseph’s comment to his brothers who sold him into slavery Genesis 50:20
You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.
And Romans 8:28 seems to echo the same idea where it speaks of God’s providence – that He orchestrates events in life to accomplish temporal and/or eternal benefits
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
See also Deuteronomy 8: 15 - 18 - I see a twofold operation here – a pairing of God’s benevolence with our humble acceptance of His goodwill:
15“He led you through the great and terrible wilderness, with its fiery serpents and scorpions and thirsty ground where there was no water; He brought water for you out of the rock of flint. 16“In the wilderness He fed you manna which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and that He might test you, to do good for you in the end. 17“Otherwise, you may say in your heart, ‘My power and the strength of my hand made me this wealth.’ 18“But you shall remember the LORD your God, for it is He who is giving you power to make wealth…
I think that Deuteronomy passage relates to what I referenced of Bolen’s earlier “Synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine.”
Edited by T-BoneSynchronicity is the fifth and final studio album by English rock band the Police, released on 17 June 1983 by A&M Records
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Rocky
Mastering synchronicity? I'm not sure that's a useful approach. In TWI, everything seemed to be about the believer mastering believing to make things happen the way s/he wanted (hoped) for them to happen. Synchronicity, as I understand it, is not at all about believing for things to happen.
Letting go (i.e. letting go and letting God) is more the way I understand synchronicity.
Otherwise, I viewed your comment as TL;DR. If you'd like more thoughtful feedback, I would hope you could practice brevity and figure out how to more concisely make your points so that readers would find it less tedious to read.
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T-Bone
Rocky, that makes more sense - I think you're right - although in my defense my idea of mastering was to know about something inside and out - emphasizing more of an awareness of synchronicity and if you reread my post you’ll find that is so - cuz I stressed the sovereignty of God and how there is much that is beyond our control-
but
thanks for the feedback...one of these days I'll get the idea
Edited by T-BoneRevision
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Rocky
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penworks
My favorite source on synchronicity is a little book of 111 pages:
The Tao of Psychology: Synchronicity and the Self by Jean Shinoda Bolen, M.D.
Pg. 6 - "[C. G.] Jung described synchronicity as an acausal connecting principle that manifests itself through meaningful coincidences. There are no rational explanations for these situations in which a person has a thought, dream, or inner psychological state that coincides with an event."
I think most people try to make meaning out of what happens in life. That, among a few other things, motivates me to write.
Cheers,
Charlene
https://charleneedge.com
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waysider
Or the failure to coincide with an event .
"If those believers hadn't witnessed to me at that bus stop I'd be dead because ____________."
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T-Bone
I’ve probably overstepped some standards in this forum with my silly musings. I don’t mean to sound like I’ve figured anything out …but discussions about trying to find meaning always fascinates me – I’m always tempted to chime in.
my criteria for finding meaning is more in a state of flux than when I had a TWI-mindset…and I’m the super-cautious type now – so I lean more on hindsight, and use different criteria to reflect on things of the past…
for me, synchronicity in real time - the meaningful coincidence that leads to an awareness of an underlying connecting principle still seems somewhat elusive…
I sometimes think this could be just a big waste of time if there is no higher power…I think I’m always in search of the metaphysical underpinnings of the cosmos - guess I think big
...anyway, in my belief system – at its most basic level – and I could be wrong on this – but I assume we live in a moral universe. The following def. approximates it:
“ A moral universe implies that we live in a basically spiritual universe that is somehow ordered by a higher power, by invisible feelings of good and bad, a 'cosmic order' reminiscent of the early Greeks that underpins and motivates our actions. Or a 'moral force' that means our actions must have definite effects which we carry with us. In this respect its meaning comes close to the Hindu concept of Karma.”
From: Wikipedia - moral universe
Bolen said synchronicities are incidents of spiritual significance that ask us to momentarily dampen our self-obsession and consider the possibility of the divine. What exactly is the divine game plan? That’s what I want to know. I would like to be a team player – for the good guys!
One instance that exemplifies how challenging this topic is for me – and it’s kind of a complicated-twofold-hindsight-versus-synchronicity thing – it’s the Jonestown massacre of 1978. At that time, I was really involved with TWI – and I accepted wierwille’s spin on it – his Sunday Night Teaching tape “The current psychological hoax – inducing men to fear”. If I correctly remember wierwille’s conspiracy theory - it was something along the lines of a military or political black ops that staged the mass murder/suicide to make it look like Jim Jones led the people astray…yeah and in 1978 I bought into wierwille’s switcheroo – his message was beware of the government INSTEAD OF cult-leaders like Jim Jones and BY WAY OF EXTENSION ALL religious leaders who are not mainstream religions – LIKE wierwille…in other words, you must trust wierwille…must trust wierwille…trust wierwille (said as if in a deep hypnotic state
).
Recalling that time in my CURRENT frame of mind changes the significance of the Jonestown massacre…This is one of those if-I knew-then-what-I-know-now-things…what is worthy of attention…what is so revealing in the Jonestown massacre and TWI’s spin on it, is how cult-leaders like wierwille usually try to obscure the underlying connecting principle of really tragic and devastating consequences that can happen in cults. Fundamentally it all goes back to the harmful and controlling cult-leaders…so reevaluating my old mindset of the Jonestown massacre brings forth new significance…new meaning…a new way to evaluate religions – rather than holding to a certain wooden…dogmatic ideology, theories and speculations as a litmus test for orthodoxy – I think I should look more into what morally underpins and motivates a person’s actions.
Feel free to correct me on anything…I’m still trying to figure stuff out…I don’t take it personal – this is just more of my silly musings.
Edited by T-BoneHave a good night all
who has the foresight to predict they’ll need hindsight?
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waysider
"Maybe", he said.
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T-Bone
Cool story, Waysider!
that got me thinking uh oh
Probably off-topic but I thought this might be synchronicity in the rearview mirror…reevaluating simultaneous events of the past...they say hindsight is 20/20. I feel as I continue to reflect on my experiences and observations from 12 years in TWI, that I’m getting a clearer understanding of it all.
for me, I think there was some kind of a delayed reaction – instead of it being an immediate awareness of a significant connection with the patriarch doc and the mass exodus. This time period upended my belief system…and maybe the significant connection was simply the patriarch doc was the tipping point for a lot of other things that had been building up in the minds of a lot of folks...maybe there was something that irked our collective unconsciousness - mentioned in Rocky's first post on this thread.
It is interesting to think about – that some folks for whatever reason were more responsive to the collective unconsciousness…instinctive idealism? Or something…feelings of betrayal…betrayed by an organization that we thought we could trust? instead of solidarity in TWI – a schism develops…TWI tightened up the ranks by the us-versus-them mentality…TWI-followers versus the outside world…now there’s division within. Can the collective unconsciousness ever be at war with the collective consciousness (like group-think) ? ...just thinking out loud.
For me, stuff that the ministry considered low priority or not worthy of my attention I had put into this crock of $hit
– this time frame seemed to turn up the heat on a stewpot I had left on the back burner of my mind.
…stuff like all those red flags issued from my logic, common sense, emotions, moral compass, bad experiences, questioning policies, and disappointments that I had accumulated in 12 years of involvement …stuff I had repressed…stuff I was told to “renew my mind to”
…stuff I had forgot about…now was becoming a cauldron of pent-up anger, sadness, doubt, frustration, old wounds… and open wounds.
1986 to ’87 was roughly about a year of learning to recognize my belief system was much more than just warm and fuzzy select Scriptures, parroting the ministry’s pious platitudes and regurgitating PFAL principles.
At some point in my slow exit from TWI, I started to realize all that bad stuff was part of my belief system too. In other words, wrong ideas, bad attitudes, misconceptions, bad experiences, etc. are also part of the basis for my outlook on life. And I felt that unless I properly addressed that stuff, that crock of $hit would continue to simmer indefinitely – and who knows what the consequences would be down the road.
Okay maybe this was more of my nonsense…I thought it might have something to do with synchronicity in the rearview mirror – if there is such a thing
…reevaluating certain events surrounding something of the past...with a different frame of mind than when I was actually experiencing them at the time.
Edited by T-BoneNight all !
Synchronized editing
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Rocky
Not the same as everybody being unconscious...
I view it more as being responsive to a collective SUBconscious. But what do I know?
Hope you have a good night's sleep tonight.
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Rocky
Well... synchronistic events are, as Bolen wrote, subjective. As far as synchronicity in the rearview mirror, I do believe we can and do reevaluate our experiences and memories. Whether that's synchronicity, I couldn't tell.
In the late 1980s, I shared a house with a former wayfer shortly after we both left TWI. He had spent time on staff at HQ and at that time recently divorced. He participated in Re-evaluation counseling, (not with me). As best I could tell, he benefitted from the one-on-one counseling process.
So, T-Bone, it's quite likely your post was off topic to some extent. But in this case, no big deal.
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T-Bone
Ha – thanks for the correction, Rocky – can’t believe I flubbed those words by adding “ness”…now I feel really subconscious.
Thanks for that too. Great reminder on interpreting synchronistic events being subjective…and that’s always a challenge for me…maybe that comes from my self-confidence being whittled away – both before and during my TWI experience…and the more I think about it – in TWI I developed a false sense of confidence – but that’s a whole other topic…this may sound odd – but one of the reasons I come to Grease Spot is not really to validate my own opinions or beliefs – but to affirm it’s normal to feel uncertainty about a lot of things...the longer I live, the more confident I become that there's a lot I don't know.
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