Whenever I read of posts such as yours, I am so thankful GSC is still here. I seriously do not know what my life would be like if GSC had not been around 20 some years ago. My life was at such a low point, opening my eyes each morning was terrible. All the love I received from other greasers pulled me through it though.
Likewise.
My life had been dedicated to TWI. M&A was terrible. At one point I was near suicidal - what stopped me was that I thought I was so incompetent (an idea instilled by TWI) that I thought I'd only succeed in injuring myself, making myself tetraplegic or something, and that then I'd never be able to do anything about ending it all.
Happily, God led me to a great church that had patience with my weirdness. And now, life is soooo good. Ransmed, healed, restored, forgiven - who like me his praise should sing?
Enjoy this lovely hymn, with great views over countryside in the north of England with its lush green fields and heather moors.
It's good that you can still talk to your mom, though they may be strained conversations at times. (She gets her own share of beating here.) Are you welcome on grounds in Ohio, or do you not want to visit there ever again? I'm truly sorry that you have this family rupture to deal with along with all the other Wayfer problems, but you're wise to keep out of your dad's orbit.
Thanks for the kind words, Twinky.
To answer your questions above -- yes, I still visit mom there, and it's surreal to go there. I'm pretty much fine if we keep to ourselves. A few years ago, I went briefly into the OSC when people were there picking up meals. Familiar faces....people started saying hi and bless you and love you...and I had a panic attack and had to get out of there asap.
I think the hardest part with my dad is that he's my dad -- what I mean by that is that I have some father-daughter memories that are pretty sweet; I have the father-daughter biological attachment and emotional attachment. I haven't yet been able to leave him completely behind because, in spite of everything, I love him. He's my dad.
Anyway, thanks for your understanding and kindness. I value them quite a lot. <3
BecomingMe I can only imagine the trauma you have gone through, and continue to deal with in your life. And the fortitude and strength it had to take to finally break from the Way, and especially from your dad. I can only look back at myself after bring M&A and the trauma it dealt to me. However, in retrospect, it does not compare to what you have, and are probably, still experiencing.
I hope you still enjoy a loving relationship with your siblings.
Whenever I read of posts such as yours, I am so thankful GSC is still here. I seriously do not know what my life would be like if GSC had not been around 20 some years ago. My life was at such a low point, opening my eyes each morning was terrible. All the love I received from other greasers pulled me through it though. (Although some of the political arguments were quite intense, LOL).
Stayed Too Long, thank you for writing this. I can only imagine the trauma of M&A. It had to be intense.
As for me, my mental health has improved immensely over the last year or two. I have some tough stuff going on in my life at the moment, and tonight a friend asked me, "But is your mental health OK?" And I could honestly say, "Yes." That felt really good. I'm so grateful to be OK.
Hi, friends! Sorry I'm late to the party. I step in and out of cult world, because it's just too heavy sometimes. I'm Craig's oldest kid and wanted to jump on this thread to help out if I can...
Annio, I think the website you're writing about is at biblebookprofiler.com. That's not him, though. So the things written about depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts -- which I can't imagine him ever admitting to -- and the personality tests are not him. It's some other guy that happens to have posted dad's stuff on his site.
Dad is actually doing these "teachings" currently, and most (if not all?) of his followers are ex-Way people. This frustrates me to no end. How many people will he hurt and mislead in his lifetime?
As to the question of his mental health and where he went astray -- out of respect and love for my grandmother, who is still living, I won't give details here. But parts of his childhood were intensely traumatic. This might sound odd, but, as far as I can have compassion for him, I believe he was born a gentle soul and is rather fragile. Hence all the bluster and anger and defensiveness (and face meltings). I don't write this to excuse his behavior, but I find that understanding him helps me, at least. He was primed to need a daddy figure, and he got one in Wierwille.
He has seen a counselor. Briefly, in 2000, maybe for about a year. I also saw this counselor, and he helped me immensely in a time of deep depression. I think he was hardly able to scratch the surface with dad. Dad attended out of obligation at the time.
What else...? If you have questions, I'll answer them if I can <3
Hey B good to see you I think the last time I did prob was in Founders Hall with you looking like you wanted to escape.
I have thrown up some prayers over the years glad to see you doing well and recovering like I am too. I can relate to being in and out on this site I have done that a number of times here in the past 10 years for my own mental health. Glad you have your own family and are good.
I don’t have a lot of questions about dad. I heard one of his tapes on Timothy and he is pretty much stuck in the past on an endless loop. Not surprising that counseling sessions didn’t take.
Moms in the heart of the beast running the machine. That’s not changing either.
Dads mind wasn’t fully formed in teenage years and early twenties. Like ours. So the machine changed all of us. We still deal with effects.
I have a weird question. What was the dynamic towards pets in your household growing up? Curious lol.
Be well and best to your family. I have a hound dog now I love a lot fyi.
Hey B good to see you I think the last time I did prob was in Founders Hall with you looking like you wanted to escape.
...
I have a weird question. What was the dynamic towards pets in your household growing up? Curious lol.
chockfull, hi! Thanks for the reply :D If we saw each other in Founder's Hall and it was about 2002, I was definitely wanting to escape and had no idea how!
I love your weird question! It's very insightful...I have some horrible memories about pets...we had outdoor cats that we'd feed that lived in the Way Woods. And, as cats do when they roam free, they'd get into sticky situations and not come back. One got stepped on by a clergy guy staying in one of the guest rooms attached to the house, and she died. I was little...so why do I know this detail about how she died!? Another time, one of the cats had kittens, and the maintenance guy set up a box where we fed them (I'm sure he was directed to) and shot them when they went into the box...I happened upon the box and freaked out (understandably). I must have been about 5. :(
We also had a dog for several years that Chris Geer gave us. Chocolate brown German Shorthair named Zula. She was the sweetest thing. She was super anxious - she'd chew the logs on the wall at night. Dad hated her. He never was much of a pet person, but after the whole Passing of the Patriarch thing...he just kind of stayed away from her. Eventually she lived out her days in a kennel. I remember her just disappearing one day and that was that. So, not really a "normal" relationship to pets in my house.
It's pretty hard to step on a cat such that it will die. Can't imagine how that would happen innocently.
Shot the kittens. Hmph. Real love of God's creation there.
Kept the dog in a kennel. An anxious dog, at that. Perhaps that animal got shot too.
If you really can't stand having an animal in the household, give it away to someone who will love and care for it. Don't abuse it. Grr!
BecomingMe, if you can, get your own cat(s) and dog(s). They give so much unconditional love. And they ask so little of their owners. Having small animal pets is often where kids first learn to love.
I began listening to Craig's talk on 9-3-22 Discerning of Spirits. It's long-- haven't finished yet. He talks about Jesus learning about the spiritual realm and how devil spirits operate from the wild beasts in the desert during his 40 days/nights of temptations. I don't remember ever hearing anything about this--- does anyone remember this from twi?
chockfull, hi! Thanks for the reply :D If we saw each other in Founder's Hall and it was about 2002, I was definitely wanting to escape and had no idea how!
I love your weird question! It's very insightful...I have some horrible memories about pets...we had outdoor cats that we'd feed that lived in the Way Woods. And, as cats do when they roam free, they'd get into sticky situations and not come back. One got stepped on by a clergy guy staying in one of the guest rooms attached to the house, and she died. I was little...so why do I know this detail about how she died!? Another time, one of the cats had kittens, and the maintenance guy set up a box where we fed them (I'm sure he was directed to) and shot them when they went into the box...I happened upon the box and freaked out (understandably). I must have been about 5. :(
We also had a dog for several years that Chris Geer gave us. Chocolate brown German Shorthair named Zula. She was the sweetest thing. She was super anxious - she'd chew the logs on the wall at night. Dad hated her. He never was much of a pet person, but after the whole Passing of the Patriarch thing...he just kind of stayed away from her. Eventually she lived out her days in a kennel. I remember her just disappearing one day and that was that. So, not really a "normal" relationship to pets in my house.
Hey B thx for answering. Yes we couldn’t have pets as corps. If that changed later we didn’t rush out and get any. After we were free from those restrictions we started getting a dog and a rabbit. Then the kids enjoyed them and cats. I have a friend who is a cowboy so we have enjoyed horses too but didn’t own any. I’m glad we all added that aspect of life in and have enjoyed it. Pets have been therapy for me through many things in life.
Some of your experience sounds like farm living. Out in the country pets and cats have a shorter life expectancy and people control their breeding. Of course that is cruel. Vets and humane society handle that for us. I’m just not for people disposing of pets or re homing them. That’s another life depending on you for survival. I’m also for being with them for their last breath since we live longer.
Our kids really have loved our pets over years and glad we changed our course to involve them. The physical touch helps heal imo.
I began listening to Craig's talk on 9-3-22 Discerning of Spirits. It's long-- haven't finished yet. He talks about Jesus learning about the spiritual realm and how devil spirits operate from the wild beasts in the desert during his 40 days/nights of temptations. I don't remember ever hearing anything about this--- does anyone remember this from twi?
Maybe he got it from a movie. This scene from The Last Temptation of Christ depicts devil spirits manifested as beasts - a cobra and a lion.
This is an awesome scene. A scene from a film. That's all it is, a movie. It doesn't pretend to be anything else. It's NOT a sermon. It's NOT a "class." IMO, it's an underrated cinematic masterpiece from Scorsese with a brilliant performance by Willem Dafoe and a sublimely beautiful soundtrack by Peter Gabriel.
It makes sense if he got it from a movie. vpw plagiarized every Christian writer he came across, but lcm plagiarized "Staying Alive", the sequel to "Saturday Night Fever."
It makes sense if he got it from a movie. vpw plagiarized every Christian writer he came across, but lcm plagiarized "Staying Alive", the sequel to "Saturday Night Fever."
johniam, in a post on the trinity asset/liability thread that he started, cited the movie The Omen as some kind of evidence for his theological proposition. He had to learn that tactic somewhere. Some people really can't go beyond what they are taught.
Exactly. And how narcissistic is it that he calls his group the "remnant?" Geez Louise!
When Craig recovered from POP, he referred to those remaining with TWI as the remnant. Since he was kicked out of TWI, I wonder if he believes TWI is still part of the remnant?
I have not heard of him criticizing TWI, but not much had been said by him, or about him, regarding his present day endeavors, since he departed. Way back he supposedly worked at a gym or health club.
When Craig recovered from POP, he referred to those remaining with TWI as the remnant. Since he was kicked out of TWI, I wonder if he believes TWI is still part of the remnant?
I have not heard of him criticizing TWI, but not much had been said by him, or about him, regarding his present day endeavors, since he departed. Way back he supposedly worked at a gym or health club.
I believe his "new" group has "remnant" in the name. It's one of his justifications for his actions...he's really really really good at rationalizing.
He was a trainer at Bally's for a little while a couple years after he left. He worked at UPS slinging boxes for about 10 years, and was a cart boy at Home Depot for a couple years too.
I looked up this group basic google search gets to a list of 11 audio teaching series. One old from 1995, Remnant Regeneration in 2016, red thread versus rotten thread 2018, then it seems like a lot more activity the past couple years over a scattering of topics.
The church in ruin and the remnant seem to be focused topics.
Any of the links I looked at had very few views - like 30 to 150 views. He has an enabler who lists an email that has THE TEACHER in it.
I listened to a bit of one but that voice is triggering to me, speaking with the same kind of authority and control he had over me when I was young and more vulnerable.
I guess if the guy wants to have delusional therapy sessions with himself and a Bible more power to him. Maybe there's a niche like the VP worshippers have lol.
To me it comes off like the Iraqi minister of defense denying his army was losing as the capital is being taken. But maybe the guy has truly nothing else in his life and that is his best way to make sense of it.
I mean one more life absorbed in during youth, used up, and spit out in midlife crisis with no support. Because that is what cults do.... Is he culpable? Yes.
I am more glad every day my kids escaped this reality.
I looked up this group basic google search gets to a list of 11 audio teaching series. One old from 1995, Remnant Regeneration in 2016, red thread versus rotten thread 2018, then it seems like a lot more activity the past couple years over a scattering of topics.
The church in ruin and the remnant seem to be focused topics...
...I guess if the guy wants to have delusional therapy sessions with himself and a Bible more power to him. Maybe there's a niche like the VP worshippers have lol.
Thinking about my own experience - leaving a harmful and controlling cult – I went through some short-term denial- maybe that helped me to dull the pain and stress of recalibrating what I used for “reference points” and reprioritizing what to do to “fix me.” But I don’t think long-term denial is a good thing. I don’t know what’s going on in his head – but I think grandiose delusions of leading the remnant ain’t healthy...
~ ~ ~ ~
…a few excerpts with hyperlinks on denial below:
The concept arose from the work of Sigmund Freud, whose daughter, Anna Freud, developed the idea of defense mechanisms, unconscious strategies whereby people protect themselves from anxious thoughts or feelings. Anna believed that denial unconsciously protected the ego from discomfort and distress by rejecting aspects of reality itself. Denial was primarily used in childhood and adolescence, she believed, and could be damaging when employed regularly in adulthood.
Although many of Freud's ideas have been disproven, psychologists today still believe that defense mechanisms like denial are a valid concept.
The notion that one is “in denial” seems to have taken on a life of its own as an agent of many ills and as a catchphrase for people who dismiss the implications of their behavior. Although denial is considered to be a defense often used by people with addictive tendencies, its attributions reach beyond those struggling with substances. Denial is also attributed to people who do not want to acknowledge that bad stuff is occurring in their lives, such as those who are attempting to cope with a tumultuous relationship, a life-threatening illness, obesity, a loss, or anything else that one may attempt to disavow. We can deny a fact, deny responsibility, deny the impact of our actions, or deny what is really going on by hiding from our feelings. In any case, when we use denial to defend ourselves or cope with what we feel, we contradict the reality of a situation or attempt to adjust to a circumstance by neglecting its impact.
In psychoanalytic theory, denial is a defense mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence. The concept of denial is important in twelve-step programs where the abandonment or reversal of denial that substance dependence is problematic forms the basis of the first, fourth, fifth, eighth and tenth steps.
People who are exhibiting symptoms of a serious medical condition sometimes deny or ignore those symptoms because the idea of having a serious health problem is uncomfortable or disturbing. The American Heart Association cites denial as a principal reason that treatment of a heart attack is delayed. Because the symptoms are so varied, and often have other potential explanations, the opportunity exists for the patient to deny the emergency, often with fatal consequences. It is common for patients to delay recommended mammograms or other tests because of a fear of cancer, even though on average this worsens the long-term medical outcome.
Psychology:
Initial short-term denial can be a good thing, giving time to adjust to a painful or stressful issue. It might also be a precursor to making some sort of change in one's life. But denial can also be harmful; if denial persists and prevents a person from taking appropriate action, it's a harmful response.From Wikipedia: denial
The church in ruin and the remnant seem to be focused topics.
The Church in ruin is problematic from a scriptural standpoint (meaning wierwille probably made it up)
Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Have the gates of hell prevailed against Christs's Church? I think not. Now, I understand where wierwille pulled his stuff from where Paul stated in 2 Timothy 1:15 that all Asia Minor had turned against him, and in context it was likely because he was incarcerated. While, this indicates Paul's difficulties at the time due to his arrest and corresponding fallout, it in no way indicates the Church was in ruin as victor paul wierwille and Craiggers like to say it was/is. IMO - this psychologically manipulative song and dance just gives a fake buy in point where people can get pumped up thinking they are of "the faithful remnant"...my 2 cents anyways.
"The church in ruin"? If he ever said that during my time in rez, or before or after, it went right past me. I have no such recollection.
He did "teach" on the faithful remnant a time or two, not that often as I recall.
His big things were the sin of homosexuality (and the need to "smoke out" homos), and that was closely linked with "spiritual suspicion" - which was a catch-all for anything he didn't like but particularly for accusing random males of the act he most abhorred.
Whatever he "taught" in those years, though, he's had plenty of time to reflect on since his banishment. He could be teaching any kind of drivel now. Things too bizarre to be imagined by more normal minds.
So for context I think the church in reign is referring to the book of 1 Timothy as a whole. The church in ruin refers to 2 Timothy as a whole.
These topical classifications probably are beyond the Way inventing them. If it refers to an exegetical teaching on 2 Timothy that may be all that it is.
I have no stomach to listen to the entire teaching to give an opinion on that though.
The guy will never be in the position to hurt people like he has in the past. That authority was taken by RR and resides in the BOD.
He may have a small twig of people that like his radio voice.
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T-Bone
Oh yeah – you nailed it Bolshevik! An alarming aspect of TWI-follower’s/big PFAL-fans’ fascination with demonology is the amount of control it affords cult-leaders. They elevate consequen
Twinky
Good lord, is that Craig? His vaunted golden hair has slipped down to his chin, and gone grey? Still got the scowl, though.
BecomingMe
Hi, friends! Sorry I'm late to the party. I step in and out of cult world, because it's just too heavy sometimes. I'm Craig's oldest kid and wanted to jump on this thread to help out if I can...
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Twinky
Likewise.
My life had been dedicated to TWI. M&A was terrible. At one point I was near suicidal - what stopped me was that I thought I was so incompetent (an idea instilled by TWI) that I thought I'd only succeed in injuring myself, making myself tetraplegic or something, and that then I'd never be able to do anything about ending it all.
Happily, God led me to a great church that had patience with my weirdness. And now, life is soooo good. Ransmed, healed, restored, forgiven - who like me his praise should sing?
Enjoy this lovely hymn, with great views over countryside in the north of England with its lush green fields and heather moors.
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BecomingMe
Thanks for the kind words, Twinky.
To answer your questions above -- yes, I still visit mom there, and it's surreal to go there. I'm pretty much fine if we keep to ourselves. A few years ago, I went briefly into the OSC when people were there picking up meals. Familiar faces....people started saying hi and bless you and love you...and I had a panic attack and had to get out of there asap.
I think the hardest part with my dad is that he's my dad -- what I mean by that is that I have some father-daughter memories that are pretty sweet; I have the father-daughter biological attachment and emotional attachment. I haven't yet been able to leave him completely behind because, in spite of everything, I love him. He's my dad.
Anyway, thanks for your understanding and kindness. I value them quite a lot. <3
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BecomingMe
Stayed Too Long, thank you for writing this. I can only imagine the trauma of M&A. It had to be intense.
As for me, my mental health has improved immensely over the last year or two. I have some tough stuff going on in my life at the moment, and tonight a friend asked me, "But is your mental health OK?" And I could honestly say, "Yes." That felt really good. I'm so grateful to be OK.
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chockfull
Hey B good to see you I think the last time I did prob was in Founders Hall with you looking like you wanted to escape.
I have thrown up some prayers over the years glad to see you doing well and recovering like I am too. I can relate to being in and out on this site I have done that a number of times here in the past 10 years for my own mental health. Glad you have your own family and are good.
I don’t have a lot of questions about dad. I heard one of his tapes on Timothy and he is pretty much stuck in the past on an endless loop. Not surprising that counseling sessions didn’t take.
Moms in the heart of the beast running the machine. That’s not changing either.
Dads mind wasn’t fully formed in teenage years and early twenties. Like ours. So the machine changed all of us. We still deal with effects.
I have a weird question. What was the dynamic towards pets in your household growing up? Curious lol.
Be well and best to your family. I have a hound dog now I love a lot fyi.
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BecomingMe
chockfull, hi! Thanks for the reply :D If we saw each other in Founder's Hall and it was about 2002, I was definitely wanting to escape and had no idea how!
I love your weird question! It's very insightful...I have some horrible memories about pets...we had outdoor cats that we'd feed that lived in the Way Woods. And, as cats do when they roam free, they'd get into sticky situations and not come back. One got stepped on by a clergy guy staying in one of the guest rooms attached to the house, and she died. I was little...so why do I know this detail about how she died!? Another time, one of the cats had kittens, and the maintenance guy set up a box where we fed them (I'm sure he was directed to) and shot them when they went into the box...I happened upon the box and freaked out (understandably). I must have been about 5. :(
We also had a dog for several years that Chris Geer gave us. Chocolate brown German Shorthair named Zula. She was the sweetest thing. She was super anxious - she'd chew the logs on the wall at night. Dad hated her. He never was much of a pet person, but after the whole Passing of the Patriarch thing...he just kind of stayed away from her. Eventually she lived out her days in a kennel. I remember her just disappearing one day and that was that. So, not really a "normal" relationship to pets in my house.
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Twinky
It's pretty hard to step on a cat such that it will die. Can't imagine how that would happen innocently.
Shot the kittens. Hmph. Real love of God's creation there.
Kept the dog in a kennel. An anxious dog, at that. Perhaps that animal got shot too.
If you really can't stand having an animal in the household, give it away to someone who will love and care for it. Don't abuse it. Grr!
BecomingMe, if you can, get your own cat(s) and dog(s). They give so much unconditional love. And they ask so little of their owners. Having small animal pets is often where kids first learn to love.
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oldiesman
I began listening to Craig's talk on 9-3-22 Discerning of Spirits. It's long-- haven't finished yet. He talks about Jesus learning about the spiritual realm and how devil spirits operate from the wild beasts in the desert during his 40 days/nights of temptations. I don't remember ever hearing anything about this--- does anyone remember this from twi?
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chockfull
Hey B thx for answering. Yes we couldn’t have pets as corps. If that changed later we didn’t rush out and get any. After we were free from those restrictions we started getting a dog and a rabbit. Then the kids enjoyed them and cats. I have a friend who is a cowboy so we have enjoyed horses too but didn’t own any. I’m glad we all added that aspect of life in and have enjoyed it. Pets have been therapy for me through many things in life.
Some of your experience sounds like farm living. Out in the country pets and cats have a shorter life expectancy and people control their breeding. Of course that is cruel. Vets and humane society handle that for us. I’m just not for people disposing of pets or re homing them. That’s another life depending on you for survival. I’m also for being with them for their last breath since we live longer.
Our kids really have loved our pets over years and glad we changed our course to involve them. The physical touch helps heal imo.
Good to see you - best to you and fam.
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Nathan_Jr
Maybe he got it from a movie. This scene from The Last Temptation of Christ depicts devil spirits manifested as beasts - a cobra and a lion.
This is an awesome scene. A scene from a film. That's all it is, a movie. It doesn't pretend to be anything else. It's NOT a sermon. It's NOT a "class." IMO, it's an underrated cinematic masterpiece from Scorsese with a brilliant performance by Willem Dafoe and a sublimely beautiful soundtrack by Peter Gabriel.
This film is so misunderstood.
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WordWolf
It makes sense if he got it from a movie. vpw plagiarized every Christian writer he came across, but lcm plagiarized "Staying Alive", the sequel to "Saturday Night Fever."
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Nathan_Jr
johniam, in a post on the trinity asset/liability thread that he started, cited the movie The Omen as some kind of evidence for his theological proposition. He had to learn that tactic somewhere. Some people really can't go beyond what they are taught.
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waysider
Some people lack the desire to try.
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OldSkool
Do not say that name three times...
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Stayed Too Long
When Craig recovered from POP, he referred to those remaining with TWI as the remnant. Since he was kicked out of TWI, I wonder if he believes TWI is still part of the remnant?
I have not heard of him criticizing TWI, but not much had been said by him, or about him, regarding his present day endeavors, since he departed. Way back he supposedly worked at a gym or health club.
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T-Bone
Having a preference for stuff that goes nowhere - he keeps trading one treadmill for another.
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Nathan_Jr
Well done.
Mmmmmmph
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BecomingMe
I believe his "new" group has "remnant" in the name. It's one of his justifications for his actions...he's really really really good at rationalizing.
He was a trainer at Bally's for a little while a couple years after he left. He worked at UPS slinging boxes for about 10 years, and was a cart boy at Home Depot for a couple years too.
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chockfull
I looked up this group basic google search gets to a list of 11 audio teaching series. One old from 1995, Remnant Regeneration in 2016, red thread versus rotten thread 2018, then it seems like a lot more activity the past couple years over a scattering of topics.
The church in ruin and the remnant seem to be focused topics.
Any of the links I looked at had very few views - like 30 to 150 views. He has an enabler who lists an email that has THE TEACHER in it.
I listened to a bit of one but that voice is triggering to me, speaking with the same kind of authority and control he had over me when I was young and more vulnerable.
I guess if the guy wants to have delusional therapy sessions with himself and a Bible more power to him. Maybe there's a niche like the VP worshippers have lol.
To me it comes off like the Iraqi minister of defense denying his army was losing as the capital is being taken. But maybe the guy has truly nothing else in his life and that is his best way to make sense of it.
I mean one more life absorbed in during youth, used up, and spit out in midlife crisis with no support. Because that is what cults do.... Is he culpable? Yes.
I am more glad every day my kids escaped this reality.
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T-Bone
Thinking about my own experience - leaving a harmful and controlling cult – I went through some short-term denial - maybe that helped me to dull the pain and stress of recalibrating what I used for “reference points” and reprioritizing what to do to “fix me.” But I don’t think long-term denial is a good thing. I don’t know what’s going on in his head – but I think grandiose delusions of leading the remnant ain’t healthy...
~ ~ ~ ~
…a few excerpts with hyperlinks on denial below:
The concept arose from the work of Sigmund Freud, whose daughter, Anna Freud, developed the idea of defense mechanisms, unconscious strategies whereby people protect themselves from anxious thoughts or feelings. Anna believed that denial unconsciously protected the ego from discomfort and distress by rejecting aspects of reality itself. Denial was primarily used in childhood and adolescence, she believed, and could be damaging when employed regularly in adulthood.
Although many of Freud's ideas have been disproven, psychologists today still believe that defense mechanisms like denial are a valid concept.
from: Psychology Today: basics of denial
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The notion that one is “in denial” seems to have taken on a life of its own as an agent of many ills and as a catchphrase for people who dismiss the implications of their behavior. Although denial is considered to be a defense often used by people with addictive tendencies, its attributions reach beyond those struggling with substances. Denial is also attributed to people who do not want to acknowledge that bad stuff is occurring in their lives, such as those who are attempting to cope with a tumultuous relationship, a life-threatening illness, obesity, a loss, or anything else that one may attempt to disavow. We can deny a fact, deny responsibility, deny the impact of our actions, or deny what is really going on by hiding from our feelings. In any case, when we use denial to defend ourselves or cope with what we feel, we contradict the reality of a situation or attempt to adjust to a circumstance by neglecting its impact.
from: Psychology Today: emotions / feelings /being in denial
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In psychoanalytic theory, denial is a defense mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence. The concept of denial is important in twelve-step programs where the abandonment or reversal of denial that substance dependence is problematic forms the basis of the first, fourth, fifth, eighth and tenth steps.
People who are exhibiting symptoms of a serious medical condition sometimes deny or ignore those symptoms because the idea of having a serious health problem is uncomfortable or disturbing. The American Heart Association cites denial as a principal reason that treatment of a heart attack is delayed. Because the symptoms are so varied, and often have other potential explanations, the opportunity exists for the patient to deny the emergency, often with fatal consequences. It is common for patients to delay recommended mammograms or other tests because of a fear of cancer, even though on average this worsens the long-term medical outcome.
Psychology:
Initial short-term denial can be a good thing, giving time to adjust to a painful or stressful issue. It might also be a precursor to making some sort of change in one's life. But denial can also be harmful; if denial persists and prevents a person from taking appropriate action, it's a harmful response. From Wikipedia: denial
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Nathan_Jr
Edited by Nathan_JrFacts: heliocentrism or two crucified or the Holocaust or OJ, the murderer....
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T-Bone
And in a related tidbit of info:
The number one rule for cult-leaders, loyal followers, and the fine upstanding citizens of la-la land:
Don’t ever let anyone burst your bubble!
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OldSkool
The Church in ruin is problematic from a scriptural standpoint (meaning wierwille probably made it up)
Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Have the gates of hell prevailed against Christs's Church? I think not. Now, I understand where wierwille pulled his stuff from where Paul stated in 2 Timothy 1:15 that all Asia Minor had turned against him, and in context it was likely because he was incarcerated. While, this indicates Paul's difficulties at the time due to his arrest and corresponding fallout, it in no way indicates the Church was in ruin as victor paul wierwille and Craiggers like to say it was/is. IMO - this psychologically manipulative song and dance just gives a fake buy in point where people can get pumped up thinking they are of "the faithful remnant"...my 2 cents anyways.
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Twinky
"The church in ruin"? If he ever said that during my time in rez, or before or after, it went right past me. I have no such recollection.
He did "teach" on the faithful remnant a time or two, not that often as I recall.
His big things were the sin of homosexuality (and the need to "smoke out" homos), and that was closely linked with "spiritual suspicion" - which was a catch-all for anything he didn't like but particularly for accusing random males of the act he most abhorred.
Whatever he "taught" in those years, though, he's had plenty of time to reflect on since his banishment. He could be teaching any kind of drivel now. Things too bizarre to be imagined by more normal minds.
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chockfull
So for context I think the church in reign is referring to the book of 1 Timothy as a whole. The church in ruin refers to 2 Timothy as a whole.
These topical classifications probably are beyond the Way inventing them. If it refers to an exegetical teaching on 2 Timothy that may be all that it is.
I have no stomach to listen to the entire teaching to give an opinion on that though.
The guy will never be in the position to hurt people like he has in the past. That authority was taken by RR and resides in the BOD.
He may have a small twig of people that like his radio voice.
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