There's often a logic behind the illogic. I wonder if someone could deduce what juvenile stage of development he is stuck in.
That is concerning – perhaps a mental health professional is in order…I found a webpage that may give some direction:
Problems in Adolescents
By Sharon Levy , MD, MPH, Harvard Medical School
Last full review/revision Sep 2020| Content last modified Sep 2020
Psychologic and social problems, particularly involving behavior and school issues, are more common during adolescence than at any other time during childhood. Adolescents are much more independent and mobile and are often out of the direct control of adults. When misbehavior becomes severe and frequent, adolescents should be evaluated for a psychosocial disorder by a mental health professional. In particular, depression, anxiety, and eating disorders are common during adolescence. Adolescents who have anxiety or mood disorders may have physical symptoms such as fatigue or chronic fatigue, dizziness, headache, and abdominal or chest pain.
Depression is common among adolescents, and doctors actively screen for it during examinations.
Suicide is rare, but thoughts about suicide (called suicidal ideation) are more common. Suicidal ideation requires an immediate mental health evaluation; parents should not be expected to determine how "serious" the problem is on their own.
Anxiety often manifests during adolescence, as do mood disorders and disruptive behavioral disorders such as oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder.
Thought disorders, in which a person has difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality (also called psychosis), most commonly begin during adolescence or early adulthood. The first episode of psychosis is called a psychotic break. Schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder are examples of thought disorders. Periods of psychosis may be related to drug use. In these cases, psychosis may resolve after a period of time. Psychotic episodes may occur with marijuana, particularly edible products. Some adolescents who have a psychotic episode caused by marijuana use go on to develop a chronic psychotic disorder.
Eating disorders, especially in girls, are common and can be life threatening. Some adolescents go to extraordinary lengths to hide symptoms of an eating disorder, which may include substantial reductions in food intake, purging after eating, use of laxatives, or extensive, vigorous exercise.
Doctors can often identify these problems. They can offer adolescents practical advice and, when appropriate, encourage adolescents to accept treatment provided by specialists.
That is concerning – perhaps a mental health professional is in order…I found a webpage that may give some direction:
Problems in Adolescents
By Sharon Levy , MD, MPH, Harvard Medical School
Last full review/revision Sep 2020| Content last modified Sep 2020
Psychologic and social problems, particularly involving behavior and school issues, are more common during adolescence than at any other time during childhood. Adolescents are much more independent and mobile and are often out of the direct control of adults. When misbehavior becomes severe and frequent, adolescents should be evaluated for a psychosocial disorder by a mental health professional. In particular, depression, anxiety, and eating disorders are common during adolescence. Adolescents who have anxiety or mood disorders may have physical symptoms such as fatigue or chronic fatigue, dizziness, headache, and abdominal or chest pain.
Depression is common among adolescents, and doctors actively screen for it during examinations.
Suicide is rare, but thoughts about suicide (called suicidal ideation) are more common. Suicidal ideation requires an immediate mental health evaluation; parents should not be expected to determine how "serious" the problem is on their own.
Anxiety often manifests during adolescence, as do mood disorders and disruptive behavioral disorders such as oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder.
Thought disorders, in which a person has difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality (also called psychosis), most commonly begin during adolescence or early adulthood. The first episode of psychosis is called a psychotic break. Schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder are examples of thought disorders. Periods of psychosis may be related to drug use. In these cases, psychosis may resolve after a period of time. Psychotic episodes may occur with marijuana, particularly edible products. Some adolescents who have a psychotic episode caused by marijuana use go on to develop a chronic psychotic disorder.
Eating disorders, especially in girls, are common and can be life threatening. Some adolescents go to extraordinary lengths to hide symptoms of an eating disorder, which may include substantial reductions in food intake, purging after eating, use of laxatives, or extensive, vigorous exercise.
Doctors can often identify these problems. They can offer adolescents practical advice and, when appropriate, encourage adolescents to accept treatment provided by specialists.
Well I don't think it's pot. I don't know of any professionals studying Way-Speak specifically. If LCM was more heavily conditioned by the Malignant Narcissist himself than most, his thinking process would show the signs of narcissistic abuse?
T-Bone, what a lot of pseudo-scientific gobbledegook. Some kids are just bloody naughty teenagers. Because they're just bloody naughty. Bored and won't find anything to do. (You can tell I'm heavy on the compassion this evening!)
We here are all victims of TWI. And Craig is, too, grown man that he is. Some of us have had it hard with years of WC training and indoctrination. He's had all that, same as us, and in addition has been personally groomed by VPW himself. Whatever psychological problems some of us here have had, Craig has probably had in spades. He was groomed by VPW from quite an early age, early 20s or such like. And later, the other trustees, and CG in particular, beat up on him.
Having said that, nobody here has 'fessed up to assaulting (raping) other people' spouses, and I don't know that any of us has delivered such excoriating face-meltings, physical and mental abuse, or widespread slander. But then, nobody else has been Prez either.
I'm not excusing him, not in the slightest. He stuffed up my head and my life and I feel like I wasted a good 20 years post-TWI because of him. My life has never got back to what it might have been, and never will.
I wonder if he has ever sought any help from professional therapists to deal with his mental health issues. He'd probably deny any MH issues, but it'd be astonishing if he didn't have some. I could almost feel sorry for him. But I absolutely don't want ever to see him or hear him: no, not never ever again.
Well. Exception. A heartfelt apology. I might be willing to hear that.
Severe narcissism is an arrested development at a young age, is my understanding. Which is why I mentioned juvenile stage.
I believe VPW'S cult was his way of using people to worship his inner world, to acquire narcissistic supply. Religious language is used to describe that battle of appeasing the inner critic, the metaphorical tyrannical parent of that underdeveloped baby. I think it's there in the Wayspeak.
LCM is imitating his twisted relationship with VPW in his "teachings". IMO.
T-Bone, what a lot of pseudo-scientific gobbledegook. Some kids are just bloody naughty teenagers. Because they're just bloody naughty. Bored and won't find anything to do. (You can tell I'm heavy on the compassion this evening!)
We here are all victims of TWI. And Craig is, too, grown man that he is. Some of us have had it hard with years of WC training and indoctrination. He's had all that, same as us, and in addition has been personally groomed by VPW himself. Whatever psychological problems some of us here have had, Craig has probably had in spades. He was groomed by VPW from quite an early age, early 20s or such like. And later, the other trustees, and CG in particular, beat up on him.
Having said that, nobody here has 'fessed up to assaulting (raping) other people' spouses, and I don't know that any of us has delivered such excoriating face-meltings, physical and mental abuse, or widespread slander. But then, nobody else has been Prez either.
I'm not excusing him, not in the slightest. He stuffed up my head and my life and I feel like I wasted a good 20 years post-TWI because of him. My life has never got back to what it might have been, and never will.
I wonder if he has ever sought any help from professional therapists to deal with his mental health issues. He'd probably deny any MH issues, but it'd be astonishing if he didn't have some. I could almost feel sorry for him. But I absolutely don't want ever to see him or hear him: no, not never ever again.
Well. Exception. A heartfelt apology. I might be willing to hear that.
Reminds me of when I left TWI and was in the process of what I call my self-deprogramming, I would hear Craig's voice in my head. When I would think an anti-way thought, there was Craig in my head yelling the opposite. Eventually the yelling went away.
Yeah, Outie. Me too. Thank God, that doesn't happen now, except one or two words and expressions are triggers. Usually, ones that he used aimed at me personally in face-meltings. However, they no longer fire me off into the lala land of self-condemnation; they fire me up to defend myself with vigour. Because Craig's opinion of me, masquerading as God's opinion of me, is irrelevant. I know what God's opinion of me is. And I'm very content with that.
Reminds me of when I left TWI and was in the process of what I call my self-deprogramming, I would hear Craig's voice in my head. When I would think an anti-way thought, there was Craig in my head yelling the opposite. Eventually the yelling went away.
I still have family in TWI. Occasionally get a taste of the noise. But i have actively put up boundaries over the years. It is like smoking cigarettes. As long as you stay away the effect becomes unnoticeable and out of mind. But get too close and it's like you never left.
So catching up here... In the About Me section of his website (which I can't find again right now) he only talks about his adolescent mental health issues of anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts; no football or Baptist church leadership... Hence his vulnerability to vpw/cult culture, eh?
That website writing sure is careless, or lacks maturity, or indicates real mental health problems IMHO... And the gobbledygook in one of the "teachings" re: the ocean being poisonous since the flood and ya better stay away b/c a tsunami might hit at any time???????? Oh boy, paranoia for one...
To share personally- don't know why I am crying right now... All of the tragedy around his life, mine and my family's, and so many others... I think I truly did love many and was honorably loved by friends... while staying very f'ed up from childhood-and-beyond trauma, etc. Oh well, for me some good did come, but/and it sure is painful to keep sifting thru the heart issues, separate the wheat from the chaff, and have the wounds exposed for healing. Nevertheless, ONWARD into lots of Awaiting Good. Best to you all!!
Teenage struggles? Any worse than the usual teenage angst? Don't all teenagers "struggle" as they develop into young adults with the ability to think and make decisions for themselves, rather than being told what to do by parents?
Hi, friends! Sorry I'm late to the party. I step in and out of cult world, because it's just too heavy sometimes. I'm Craig's oldest kid and wanted to jump on this thread to help out if I can...
Annio, I think the website you're writing about is at biblebookprofiler.com. That's not him, though. So the things written about depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts -- which I can't imagine him ever admitting to -- and the personality tests are not him. It's some other guy that happens to have posted dad's stuff on his site.
Dad is actually doing these "teachings" currently, and most (if not all?) of his followers are ex-Way people. This frustrates me to no end. How many people will he hurt and mislead in his lifetime?
As to the question of his mental health and where he went astray -- out of respect and love for my grandmother, who is still living, I won't give details here. But parts of his childhood were intensely traumatic. This might sound odd, but, as far as I can have compassion for him, I believe he was born a gentle soul and is rather fragile. Hence all the bluster and anger and defensiveness (and face meltings). I don't write this to excuse his behavior, but I find that understanding him helps me, at least. He was primed to need a daddy figure, and he got one in Wierwille.
He has seen a counselor. Briefly, in 2000, maybe for about a year. I also saw this counselor, and he helped me immensely in a time of deep depression. I think he was hardly able to scratch the surface with dad. Dad attended out of obligation at the time.
What else...? If you have questions, I'll answer them if I can <3
I listen to Craigs teachings off and on and I have to say there are from time to time (imo) fantastically great things in them and even after a considerable amount of time in twi even some 'new light' (for my brain cells anyhoo) I was never at the receiving end of any 'face meltings' only a couple of humorous convos with the guy. Being in Australia I feel distantly safe enough to not get 'drawn into' any 'allegiance' or 'blind following' mentality.
Hi, friends! Sorry I'm late to the party. I step in and out of cult world, because it's just too heavy sometimes. I'm Craig's oldest kid and wanted to jump on this thread to help out if I can...
Annio, I think the website you're writing about is at biblebookprofiler.com. That's not him, though. So the things written about depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts -- which I can't imagine him ever admitting to -- and the personality tests are not him. It's some other guy that happens to have posted dad's stuff on his site.
Dad is actually doing these "teachings" currently, and most (if not all?) of his followers are ex-Way people. This frustrates me to no end. How many people will he hurt and mislead in his lifetime?
As to the question of his mental health and where he went astray -- out of respect and love for my grandmother, who is still living, I won't give details here. But parts of his childhood were intensely traumatic. This might sound odd, but, as far as I can have compassion for him, I believe he was born a gentle soul and is rather fragile. Hence all the bluster and anger and defensiveness (and face meltings). I don't write this to excuse his behavior, but I find that understanding him helps me, at least. He was primed to need a daddy figure, and he got one in Wierwille.
He has seen a counselor. Briefly, in 2000, maybe for about a year. I also saw this counselor, and he helped me immensely in a time of deep depression. I think he was hardly able to scratch the surface with dad. Dad attended out of obligation at the time.
What else...? If you have questions, I'll answer them if I can <3
BecomingMe, thanks for being so open and honest !
Something I rarely think about is how complicated and painfully tedious it can be to unpack the baggage we travel with as we continue on in our journey forward…occasionally I feel compelled to circle back to the past - review - reinterpret - and maybe sometimes regurgitate (maybe that’s a Kool-Aid hangover) …but I am always encouraged by what other Grease Spotters share on their journey onward.
This may be an odd thing to say but I don’t harbor any hatred, resentment or ill will toward LCM…in some ways I think of him as being a victim of a cult too…What I mean is that I relate it to my own extreme adoration for wierwille …part of why I went into the corps was I wanted to become the ideal believer like I thought wierwille was…it was that misplaced trust and inappropriate admiration I had toward him that was probably a big factor in me being willing to sacrifice my true self by allowing the way corps program to pulverize that and hoped it would reconstitute me into wierwille’s idea of a true believer…I think LCM was one of his best students.
I can’t even begin to imagine the unique and complicated issues you have had or may still have because of your family ties…I wish you the best.
Hi, friends! Sorry I'm late to the party. I step in and out of cult world, because it's just too heavy sometimes. I'm Craig's oldest kid and wanted to jump on this thread to help out if I can...
Annio, I think the website you're writing about is at biblebookprofiler.com. That's not him, though. So the things written about depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts -- which I can't imagine him ever admitting to -- and the personality tests are not him. It's some other guy that happens to have posted dad's stuff on his site.[/quote]
[One of the problems of the internet is that people can pretend to be someone else that already exists. Some time ago, some anonymous person posted in his name on a twitter account or something and posted general apologies for previous action. I'm not sure why they did this. My opinion- which is a guess- is that, given the situation- someone decided to do that in the hopes someone would feel better after they read that. It was done on an April 1, so there might have been some element of prank in there. However, it seems too serious to be a standard prank. Possibly them or someone else has written a different website, apparently, and that's the site you mentioned. Again, my opinion...this strikes me more as less of an attempt to heal others or some mild prank, and less harmless for that matter. I'd probably just let it go, since any attempts to get the site down will probably be a lot of work and probably will just advertise it a lot. So, let it blow over.]
Dad is actually doing these "teachings" currently, and most (if not all?) of his followers are ex-Way people. This frustrates me to no end. How many people will he hurt and mislead in his lifetime?
[Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I think his current "teachings" aren't as harmful as you do. I'd be surprised if never-been-way are following his stuff, so that only leaves ex-way. Ex-twi numbers dwindle with the passing of the years, as twi becomes even less relevant than before. Any ex-twi knows what to expect from lcm. Any of them who actually choose to read/listen to his current stuff is not being "mislead." They are choosing to listen to him. These are the kinds of people who spend the rest of their lives shuffling between one ex-twi teacher and another, never interacting with all sorts of other Christians out there. This is a bit sad, but it's their choice. By the time someone's in their 50s or later, they should have figured all of this out. If they haven't, this is probably a deliberate decision. In the long run, this problem is self-correcting. They are aging out of the population (as will lcm himself.) So, every year, this "twi only or ex-twi only" subculture(s) gets smaller and smaller. Either people figure it out and explore the rest of the world (among other Christians or among other people) or they age out and are NOT replaced by people falling for the same snappy patter.
None of this erases your hurts, but I hope some perspective might help a little.]
As to the question of his mental health and where he went astray -- out of respect and love for my grandmother, who is still living, I won't give details here. But parts of his childhood were intensely traumatic. This might sound odd, but, as far as I can have compassion for him, I believe he was born a gentle soul and is rather fragile. Hence all the bluster and anger and defensiveness (and face meltings). I don't write this to excuse his behavior, but I find that understanding him helps me, at least. He was primed to need a daddy figure, and he got one in Wierwille.
[Amazingly, some of us worked out that last sentence in the thread discussing the book "VP and Me." lcm wrote it, and the tone suggested that. I'm not sure who or what he was from childhood. We know he was a Christian in high school and university, and was looking for SOMETHING by the time he was in college. The general bluster sounds picked up from coaches and the like (father-figures for team members in high school and college.) lcm went straight from college to twi, with no time for actual life experience- which seemed to have been a persistent deficiency for him. He was unable to empathize with all the normal folk, but mainly he was an excellent target to "soak up the king's countenance" when he met vpw. He copied vpw's yelling, anger and face-meltings over time- sometimes only because vpw INSISTED. lcm wanted answers, and got vpw. lcm really believed vpw's press, and believed that the twi President's passing thoughts were Divine Revelation- which was how some awful decisions were made. On the other hand, vpw KNEW he himself was a fraud, so he covered his tracks. So, for all the hurt lcm passed along, vpw was a far worse person, partly because he made lcm into the kind of person who did that. lcm sincerely thought he was doing the right thing, even when he was doing wrong. vpw knew he was doing wrong. I really do think lcm could have posted here under a screen-name and interacted with people, and been accepted. (Provided he didn't break the board rules and attack other posters, say.) I posted a thread once, asking for personal recollections of lcm. A number of people said he'd been a decent fellow when he first arrived at twi, and long-term contact with vpw/twi was really what changed that.]
He has seen a counselor. Briefly, in 2000, maybe for about a year. I also saw this counselor, and he helped me immensely in a time of deep depression. I think he was hardly able to scratch the surface with dad. Dad attended out of obligation at the time.
What else...? If you have questions, I'll answer them if I can <3
[Too bad he left before getting help. He might have bought into the jock-athlete mentality that a need for counseling makes a person less for needing it.
I don't think there's any need of questions about lcm, and you're entitled to your own life and were never a twi figure, so I don't see the point in asking you any questions. (Of course, I don't speak for everyone.) ]
I am skeptical of BecomingMe being Craig’s oldest kid. Why has she waited this long to present herself to contribute to this site? Do not know if it is possible to vetify her idemtity? In the past GSC was able to verify that The Way actually posted here in response to a post from JP Wierwille.
I am skeptical of BecomingMe being Craig’s oldest kid. Why has she waited this long to present herself to contribute to this site? Do not know if it is possible to verify her identity? In the past GSC was able to verify that The Way actually posted here in response to a post from JP Wierwille.
I've met her in person. She's real and her posts are authentic.
BecomingMe said most, if not all of Craig’s followers, are ex-Way folks. That seems so crazy to me, as Craig probably M&A’ed many of them. Why would he want to associate with anyone who would be a grease spot by midnight? And why would the ex-Way people want to be associated with a disgraced preditor?
But, since Craig is now included in the grease spot crowd, is it possible he realized he was spewing nothing but BS, and only wanted to instill fear in people if they were contemplating leaving?
He must have to wrestle in his mind with all the lies he has told and the lives he has ruined.
BecomingMe said most, if not all of Craig’s followers, are ex-Way folks. That seems so crazy to me, as Craig probably M&A’ed many of them. Why would he want to associate with anyone who would be a grease spot by midnight? And why would the ex-Way people want to be associated with a disgraced preditor?
But, since Craig is now included in the grease spot crowd, is it possible he realized he was spewing nothing but BS, and only wanted to instill fear in people if they were contemplating leaving?
He must have to wrestle in his mind with all the lies he has told and the lives he has ruined.
Or he remains in denial. She said he attended counseling sessions only because they were mandated or obligatory but never embraced the exercise.
Therapy can lead to real awakening and liberation, but it requires acceptance and a willingness to look honestly at oneself. Until then, he has no new light to shine. No light at all. None. It's his free will choice to remain in darkness.
Edited by Nathan_Jr Go MOW! Ministry Over the World
Why would he want to associate with anyone who would be a grease spot by midnight? And why would the ex-Way people want to be associated with a disgraced preditor?
1) He wants people to follow him, believe in him. The people following him, my guess would be, left twi when he did, or some time there after becoming disillusioned with a twi without him. Just a guess.
2) Those who follow him likely do not view him as a predator, disgraced or otherwise.
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T-Bone
Oh yeah – you nailed it Bolshevik! An alarming aspect of TWI-follower’s/big PFAL-fans’ fascination with demonology is the amount of control it affords cult-leaders. They elevate consequen
Twinky
Good lord, is that Craig? His vaunted golden hair has slipped down to his chin, and gone grey? Still got the scowl, though.
BecomingMe
Hi, friends! Sorry I'm late to the party. I step in and out of cult world, because it's just too heavy sometimes. I'm Craig's oldest kid and wanted to jump on this thread to help out if I can...
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OldSkool
Cause its pure BS.
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Bolshevik
Certainly.
There's often a logic behind the illogic. I wonder if someone could deduce what juvenile stage of development he is stuck in.
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T-Bone
That is concerning – perhaps a mental health professional is in order…I found a webpage that may give some direction:
Problems in Adolescents
By Sharon Levy , MD, MPH, Harvard Medical School
Last full review/revision Sep 2020| Content last modified Sep 2020
Psychologic and social problems, particularly involving behavior and school issues, are more common during adolescence than at any other time during childhood. Adolescents are much more independent and mobile and are often out of the direct control of adults. When misbehavior becomes severe and frequent, adolescents should be evaluated for a psychosocial disorder by a mental health professional. In particular, depression, anxiety, and eating disorders are common during adolescence. Adolescents who have anxiety or mood disorders may have physical symptoms such as fatigue or chronic fatigue, dizziness, headache, and abdominal or chest pain.
Depression is common among adolescents, and doctors actively screen for it during examinations.
Suicide is rare, but thoughts about suicide (called suicidal ideation) are more common. Suicidal ideation requires an immediate mental health evaluation; parents should not be expected to determine how "serious" the problem is on their own.
Anxiety often manifests during adolescence, as do mood disorders and disruptive behavioral disorders such as oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder.
Thought disorders, in which a person has difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality (also called psychosis), most commonly begin during adolescence or early adulthood. The first episode of psychosis is called a psychotic break. Schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder are examples of thought disorders. Periods of psychosis may be related to drug use. In these cases, psychosis may resolve after a period of time. Psychotic episodes may occur with marijuana, particularly edible products. Some adolescents who have a psychotic episode caused by marijuana use go on to develop a chronic psychotic disorder.
Eating disorders, especially in girls, are common and can be life threatening. Some adolescents go to extraordinary lengths to hide symptoms of an eating disorder, which may include substantial reductions in food intake, purging after eating, use of laxatives, or extensive, vigorous exercise.
Doctors can often identify these problems. They can offer adolescents practical advice and, when appropriate, encourage adolescents to accept treatment provided by specialists.
end of excerpts
from: MSD Manual
Edited by T-Bonerevision
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Bolshevik
Well I don't think it's pot. I don't know of any professionals studying Way-Speak specifically. If LCM was more heavily conditioned by the Malignant Narcissist himself than most, his thinking process would show the signs of narcissistic abuse?
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Twinky
T-Bone, what a lot of pseudo-scientific gobbledegook. Some kids are just bloody naughty teenagers. Because they're just bloody naughty. Bored and won't find anything to do. (You can tell I'm heavy on the compassion this evening!)
We here are all victims of TWI. And Craig is, too, grown man that he is. Some of us have had it hard with years of WC training and indoctrination. He's had all that, same as us, and in addition has been personally groomed by VPW himself. Whatever psychological problems some of us here have had, Craig has probably had in spades. He was groomed by VPW from quite an early age, early 20s or such like. And later, the other trustees, and CG in particular, beat up on him.
Having said that, nobody here has 'fessed up to assaulting (raping) other people' spouses, and I don't know that any of us has delivered such excoriating face-meltings, physical and mental abuse, or widespread slander. But then, nobody else has been Prez either.
I'm not excusing him, not in the slightest. He stuffed up my head and my life and I feel like I wasted a good 20 years post-TWI because of him. My life has never got back to what it might have been, and never will.
I wonder if he has ever sought any help from professional therapists to deal with his mental health issues. He'd probably deny any MH issues, but it'd be astonishing if he didn't have some. I could almost feel sorry for him. But I absolutely don't want ever to see him or hear him: no, not never ever again.
Well. Exception. A heartfelt apology. I might be willing to hear that.
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Rocky
There's only two possibilities of that happening: Slim and none. And Slim is out of town.
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Bolshevik
Severe narcissism is an arrested development at a young age, is my understanding. Which is why I mentioned juvenile stage.
I believe VPW'S cult was his way of using people to worship his inner world, to acquire narcissistic supply. Religious language is used to describe that battle of appeasing the inner critic, the metaphorical tyrannical parent of that underdeveloped baby. I think it's there in the Wayspeak.
LCM is imitating his twisted relationship with VPW in his "teachings". IMO.
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outandabout
Reminds me of when I left TWI and was in the process of what I call my self-deprogramming, I would hear Craig's voice in my head. When I would think an anti-way thought, there was Craig in my head yelling the opposite. Eventually the yelling went away.
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waysider
Like taking out your hearing aids at the end of a particularly noisy day.
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Twinky
Yeah, Outie. Me too. Thank God, that doesn't happen now, except one or two words and expressions are triggers. Usually, ones that he used aimed at me personally in face-meltings. However, they no longer fire me off into the lala land of self-condemnation; they fire me up to defend myself with vigour. Because Craig's opinion of me, masquerading as God's opinion of me, is irrelevant. I know what God's opinion of me is. And I'm very content with that.
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Bolshevik
I still have family in TWI. Occasionally get a taste of the noise. But i have actively put up boundaries over the years. It is like smoking cigarettes. As long as you stay away the effect becomes unnoticeable and out of mind. But get too close and it's like you never left.
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annio
So catching up here... In the About Me section of his website (which I can't find again right now) he only talks about his adolescent mental health issues of anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts; no football or Baptist church leadership... Hence his vulnerability to vpw/cult culture, eh?
That website writing sure is careless, or lacks maturity, or indicates real mental health problems IMHO... And the gobbledygook in one of the "teachings" re: the ocean being poisonous since the flood and ya better stay away b/c a tsunami might hit at any time???????? Oh boy, paranoia for one...
To share personally- don't know why I am crying right now... All of the tragedy around his life, mine and my family's, and so many others... I think I truly did love many and was honorably loved by friends... while staying very f'ed up from childhood-and-beyond trauma, etc. Oh well, for me some good did come, but/and it sure is painful to keep sifting thru the heart issues, separate the wheat from the chaff, and have the wounds exposed for healing. Nevertheless, ONWARD into lots of Awaiting Good. Best to you all!!
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annio
Won't go into possible reasons for his choice to divulge those teen-age struggles, or his sharing about taking personality evals and the results...
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Twinky
Teenage struggles? Any worse than the usual teenage angst? Don't all teenagers "struggle" as they develop into young adults with the ability to think and make decisions for themselves, rather than being told what to do by parents?
FWIW, I found this article that gives a glimmer into his early years. It's his dad's obituary from 2014, so old news.
Obituary | Rod Martindale | Roberts and Son Funeral Home, Inc. (robertsandsonfh.com)
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BecomingMe
Hi, friends! Sorry I'm late to the party. I step in and out of cult world, because it's just too heavy sometimes. I'm Craig's oldest kid and wanted to jump on this thread to help out if I can...
Annio, I think the website you're writing about is at biblebookprofiler.com. That's not him, though. So the things written about depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts -- which I can't imagine him ever admitting to -- and the personality tests are not him. It's some other guy that happens to have posted dad's stuff on his site.
Dad is actually doing these "teachings" currently, and most (if not all?) of his followers are ex-Way people. This frustrates me to no end. How many people will he hurt and mislead in his lifetime?
As to the question of his mental health and where he went astray -- out of respect and love for my grandmother, who is still living, I won't give details here. But parts of his childhood were intensely traumatic. This might sound odd, but, as far as I can have compassion for him, I believe he was born a gentle soul and is rather fragile. Hence all the bluster and anger and defensiveness (and face meltings). I don't write this to excuse his behavior, but I find that understanding him helps me, at least. He was primed to need a daddy figure, and he got one in Wierwille.
He has seen a counselor. Briefly, in 2000, maybe for about a year. I also saw this counselor, and he helped me immensely in a time of deep depression. I think he was hardly able to scratch the surface with dad. Dad attended out of obligation at the time.
What else...? If you have questions, I'll answer them if I can <3
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Allan
I listen to Craigs teachings off and on and I have to say there are from time to time (imo) fantastically great things in them and even after a considerable amount of time in twi even some 'new light' (for my brain cells anyhoo) I was never at the receiving end of any 'face meltings' only a couple of humorous convos with the guy. Being in Australia I feel distantly safe enough to not get 'drawn into' any 'allegiance' or 'blind following' mentality.
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T-Bone
BecomingMe, thanks for being so open and honest !
Something I rarely think about is how complicated and painfully tedious it can be to unpack the baggage we travel with as we continue on in our journey forward…occasionally I feel compelled to circle back to the past - review - reinterpret - and maybe sometimes regurgitate (maybe that’s a Kool-Aid hangover) …but I am always encouraged by what other Grease Spotters share on their journey onward.
This may be an odd thing to say but I don’t harbor any hatred, resentment or ill will toward LCM…in some ways I think of him as being a victim of a cult too…What I mean is that I relate it to my own extreme adoration for wierwille …part of why I went into the corps was I wanted to become the ideal believer like I thought wierwille was…it was that misplaced trust and inappropriate admiration I had toward him that was probably a big factor in me being willing to sacrifice my true self by allowing the way corps program to pulverize that and hoped it would reconstitute me into wierwille’s idea of a true believer…I think LCM was one of his best students.
I can’t even begin to imagine the unique and complicated issues you have had or may still have because of your family ties…I wish you the best.
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WordWolf
[One of the problems of the internet is that people can pretend to be someone else that already exists. Some time ago, some anonymous person posted in his name on a twitter account or something and posted general apologies for previous action. I'm not sure why they did this. My opinion- which is a guess- is that, given the situation- someone decided to do that in the hopes someone would feel better after they read that. It was done on an April 1, so there might have been some element of prank in there. However, it seems too serious to be a standard prank. Possibly them or someone else has written a different website, apparently, and that's the site you mentioned. Again, my opinion...this strikes me more as less of an attempt to heal others or some mild prank, and less harmless for that matter. I'd probably just let it go, since any attempts to get the site down will probably be a lot of work and probably will just advertise it a lot. So, let it blow over.]
[Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I think his current "teachings" aren't as harmful as you do. I'd be surprised if never-been-way are following his stuff, so that only leaves ex-way. Ex-twi numbers dwindle with the passing of the years, as twi becomes even less relevant than before. Any ex-twi knows what to expect from lcm. Any of them who actually choose to read/listen to his current stuff is not being "mislead." They are choosing to listen to him. These are the kinds of people who spend the rest of their lives shuffling between one ex-twi teacher and another, never interacting with all sorts of other Christians out there. This is a bit sad, but it's their choice. By the time someone's in their 50s or later, they should have figured all of this out. If they haven't, this is probably a deliberate decision. In the long run, this problem is self-correcting. They are aging out of the population (as will lcm himself.) So, every year, this "twi only or ex-twi only" subculture(s) gets smaller and smaller. Either people figure it out and explore the rest of the world (among other Christians or among other people) or they age out and are NOT replaced by people falling for the same snappy patter.
None of this erases your hurts, but I hope some perspective might help a little.]
[Amazingly, some of us worked out that last sentence in the thread discussing the book "VP and Me." lcm wrote it, and the tone suggested that. I'm not sure who or what he was from childhood. We know he was a Christian in high school and university, and was looking for SOMETHING by the time he was in college. The general bluster sounds picked up from coaches and the like (father-figures for team members in high school and college.) lcm went straight from college to twi, with no time for actual life experience- which seemed to have been a persistent deficiency for him. He was unable to empathize with all the normal folk, but mainly he was an excellent target to "soak up the king's countenance" when he met vpw. He copied vpw's yelling, anger and face-meltings over time- sometimes only because vpw INSISTED. lcm wanted answers, and got vpw. lcm really believed vpw's press, and believed that the twi President's passing thoughts were Divine Revelation- which was how some awful decisions were made. On the other hand, vpw KNEW he himself was a fraud, so he covered his tracks. So, for all the hurt lcm passed along, vpw was a far worse person, partly because he made lcm into the kind of person who did that. lcm sincerely thought he was doing the right thing, even when he was doing wrong. vpw knew he was doing wrong. I really do think lcm could have posted here under a screen-name and interacted with people, and been accepted. (Provided he didn't break the board rules and attack other posters, say.) I posted a thread once, asking for personal recollections of lcm. A number of people said he'd been a decent fellow when he first arrived at twi, and long-term contact with vpw/twi was really what changed that.]
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Stayed Too Long
I am skeptical of BecomingMe being Craig’s oldest kid. Why has she waited this long to present herself to contribute to this site? Do not know if it is possible to vetify her idemtity? In the past GSC was able to verify that The Way actually posted here in response to a post from JP Wierwille.
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Rocky
I've met her in person. She's real and her posts are authentic.
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Stayed Too Long
Good to know. Authenication complete.
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Stayed Too Long
BecomingMe said most, if not all of Craig’s followers, are ex-Way folks. That seems so crazy to me, as Craig probably M&A’ed many of them. Why would he want to associate with anyone who would be a grease spot by midnight? And why would the ex-Way people want to be associated with a disgraced preditor?
But, since Craig is now included in the grease spot crowd, is it possible he realized he was spewing nothing but BS, and only wanted to instill fear in people if they were contemplating leaving?
He must have to wrestle in his mind with all the lies he has told and the lives he has ruined.
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Nathan_Jr
Or he remains in denial. She said he attended counseling sessions only because they were mandated or obligatory but never embraced the exercise.
Therapy can lead to real awakening and liberation, but it requires acceptance and a willingness to look honestly at oneself. Until then, he has no new light to shine. No light at all. None. It's his free will choice to remain in darkness.
Edited by Nathan_JrGo MOW! Ministry Over the World
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Rocky
1) He wants people to follow him, believe in him. The people following him, my guess would be, left twi when he did, or some time there after becoming disillusioned with a twi without him. Just a guess.
2) Those who follow him likely do not view him as a predator, disgraced or otherwise.
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