Interesting video. For me, at least, it reinforces the futility of trying to come to a complete understanding of what the authors of scripture meant to convey. Using interlinears and word studies to attempt this is like trying to explain quantum physics to a 5 year old. Yeah, I know, there will be people who will say if you pray about it or speak in tongues more, the eyes of your understanding will be enlightened. I guess you can convince yourself of almost anything if you're driven to do so.
On a side note, I used to work with someone who was born and raised in an Asian country and for whom English is a second language. I am a casual student of that particular language and culture, so I used her knowledge as a sounding board to try to increase my linguistic ability. It was often frustrating for her to explain my errors to me because she said that to switch between languages, required her to think in two radically different ways. One of the big differences she cited was that, in English, we tend to think in terms of "I' and me". Whereas, in her language, even though it's quite possible to express yourself like that, it would be considered egotistical and rude if done more often than necessary to establish the context.
So, I think the point I'm trying to make is that this concept goes beyond the way specific words mold our perceptions.
Interesting video. For me, at least, it reinforces the futility of trying to come to a complete understanding of what the authors of scripture meant to convey. Using interlinears and word studies to attempt this is like trying to explain quantum physics to a 5 year old. Yeah, I know, there will be people who will say if you pray about it or speak in tongues more, the eyes of your understanding will be enlightened. I guess you can convince yourself of almost anything if you're driven to do so.
. . .
I agree. "How you read it is how you understand it" - a teacher in an elective course once said to me.
One trick is nobody is "going to The Word". They are not allowing the literature to speak for itself. Using Word studies is just a method of generating confirmation biases for preconceived perceptions, probably planted from some class. When your thoughts align with "The Teacher's" thoughts, it certainly feels easier in that context, since you found your validation. That is not sunesis, that is the slow progression of rivers of toxic sewage.
On a side note, I used to work with someone who was born and raised in an Asian country and for whom English is a second language. I am a casual student of that particular language and culture, so I used her knowledge as a sounding board to try to increase my linguistic ability. It was often frustrating for her to explain my errors to me because she said that to switch between languages, required her to think in two radically different ways. One of the big differences she cited was that, in English, we tend to think in terms of "I' and me". Whereas, in her language, even though it's quite possible to express yourself like that, it would be considered egotistical and rude if done more often than necessary to establish the context.
So, I think the point I'm trying to make is that this concept goes beyond the way specific words mold our perceptions.
This is fascinating.
I assume most of us here come from cultures that stress the individual. Whereas others stress the family, the community, the clan, the state or some other group. The language reflects and reinforces that. A bit of a chicken and egg question in there I suppose.
Not sure VPW had some cultspeak template in mind from the get go, but it sure as heck developed. A language that always drew attention back to him.
Word studies, I now think, were a form of "busy-work" and encouraged so that we could show off to other people. "We know Greek and the original meaning of this word is ..." In reality, we never knew any Greek, just a smattering of a few words and if lucky a few points of grammar.
It's often said that children who learn another language in school learn other ways of thinking, and thus the exercise is not so much learning the language as developing the brain to think in different ways. That might be true for those of us blessed with really good teachers who could convey those language subtleties.
Children in bilingual households pick up both (or sometimes more than two) languages very easily. They quickly sort out the words and the grammar from each language, different though they may be. It's said that this really helps them develop wider thinking patterns. Would be interesting if someone has input on that. I've also heard it said that people who have known more than one language sometimes need to switch to "the other one" to be able to express themselves clearly.
To a great extent language reflects the culture of whatever country it is. I have lived in several countries, and travelled in others, and at a critical phase when life was in a bad place for me, the way I got myself out of it was: if I were in XYZ country now, how would I handle this? Choosing to think in a different culture freed me to do something different. How true it is, that travel broadens the mind!
It's telling that as Wayfers we "learned" a new language. Unfortunately that wasn't a language that broadened our minds, but one that restricted them. We've had a few threads here about "Way jargon and phraseology ("Would you be blessed to..." springs to mind - instead of, "would you be able to...," "please could you..." and so on). Not to mention some of the unusual uses of some words - the jargon.
Sometimes I wonder if those who drop by here and other ex-Way sites have forgotten their "native language" and instead taken on board "Wayspeak" so thoroughly that they can no longer think outside those confines. Not only do they not have the skills, they don't have the vocabulary.
It's telling that as Wayfers we "learned" a new language. Unfortunately that wasn't a language that broadened our minds, but one that restricted them. We've had a few threads here about "Way jargon and phraseology ("Would you be blessed to..." springs to mind - instead of, "would you be able to...," "please could you..." and so on). Not to mention some of the unusual uses of some words - the jargon.
Sometimes I wonder if those who drop by here and other ex-Way sites have forgotten their "native language" and instead taken on board "Wayspeak" so thoroughly that they can no longer think outside those confines. Not only do they not have the skills, they don't have the vocabulary.
It's probably time I re-read 1984,
I remember complaining not understanding what believing was. Because "believing" was used ubiquitously, it had many meanings. "Spiritual" was also overused.
Definitely a removal in nuance of thought. Expression was reduced to to a limited set options.
If our thoughts are limited to a certain set of possibilities . . . it certainly increases the chances that we're all like minded and of one accord . . . Right?
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waysider
Interesting video. For me, at least, it reinforces the futility of trying to come to a complete understanding of what the authors of scripture meant to convey. Using interlinears and word studies to attempt this is like trying to explain quantum physics to a 5 year old. Yeah, I know, there will be people who will say if you pray about it or speak in tongues more, the eyes of your understanding will be enlightened. I guess you can convince yourself of almost anything if you're driven to do so.
On a side note, I used to work with someone who was born and raised in an Asian country and for whom English is a second language. I am a casual student of that particular language and culture, so I used her knowledge as a sounding board to try to increase my linguistic ability. It was often frustrating for her to explain my errors to me because she said that to switch between languages, required her to think in two radically different ways. One of the big differences she cited was that, in English, we tend to think in terms of "I' and me". Whereas, in her language, even though it's quite possible to express yourself like that, it would be considered egotistical and rude if done more often than necessary to establish the context.
So, I think the point I'm trying to make is that this concept goes beyond the way specific words mold our perceptions.
Edited by waysiderwrong word
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Bolshevik
I agree. "How you read it is how you understand it" - a teacher in an elective course once said to me.
One trick is nobody is "going to The Word". They are not allowing the literature to speak for itself. Using Word studies is just a method of generating confirmation biases for preconceived perceptions, probably planted from some class. When your thoughts align with "The Teacher's" thoughts, it certainly feels easier in that context, since you found your validation. That is not sunesis, that is the slow progression of rivers of toxic sewage.
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Bolshevik
This is fascinating.
I assume most of us here come from cultures that stress the individual. Whereas others stress the family, the community, the clan, the state or some other group. The language reflects and reinforces that. A bit of a chicken and egg question in there I suppose.
Not sure VPW had some cultspeak template in mind from the get go, but it sure as heck developed. A language that always drew attention back to him.
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Twinky
Word studies, I now think, were a form of "busy-work" and encouraged so that we could show off to other people. "We know Greek and the original meaning of this word is ..." In reality, we never knew any Greek, just a smattering of a few words and if lucky a few points of grammar.
It's often said that children who learn another language in school learn other ways of thinking, and thus the exercise is not so much learning the language as developing the brain to think in different ways. That might be true for those of us blessed with really good teachers who could convey those language subtleties.
Children in bilingual households pick up both (or sometimes more than two) languages very easily. They quickly sort out the words and the grammar from each language, different though they may be. It's said that this really helps them develop wider thinking patterns. Would be interesting if someone has input on that. I've also heard it said that people who have known more than one language sometimes need to switch to "the other one" to be able to express themselves clearly.
To a great extent language reflects the culture of whatever country it is. I have lived in several countries, and travelled in others, and at a critical phase when life was in a bad place for me, the way I got myself out of it was: if I were in XYZ country now, how would I handle this? Choosing to think in a different culture freed me to do something different. How true it is, that travel broadens the mind!
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Twinky
It's telling that as Wayfers we "learned" a new language. Unfortunately that wasn't a language that broadened our minds, but one that restricted them. We've had a few threads here about "Way jargon and phraseology ("Would you be blessed to..." springs to mind - instead of, "would you be able to...," "please could you..." and so on). Not to mention some of the unusual uses of some words - the jargon.
Sometimes I wonder if those who drop by here and other ex-Way sites have forgotten their "native language" and instead taken on board "Wayspeak" so thoroughly that they can no longer think outside those confines. Not only do they not have the skills, they don't have the vocabulary.
It's probably time I re-read 1984,
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Bolshevik
I remember complaining not understanding what believing was. Because "believing" was used ubiquitously, it had many meanings. "Spiritual" was also overused.
Definitely a removal in nuance of thought. Expression was reduced to to a limited set options.
If our thoughts are limited to a certain set of possibilities . . . it certainly increases the chances that we're all like minded and of one accord . . . Right?
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