It was worse than that. We worked secular jobs that we couldn't focus on to earn money to pay for rent for a large enough home to hold church meetings in. Then on top of that we sent in tithes and offerings from those earnings. All so we could have the privilege to work a fulltime non paid job doing all the leg work so jackasses in high towers can act important and make policy.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why 95% of their leadership training graduates have fled for more rational endeavors.
It was worse than that. We worked secular jobs that we couldn't focus on to earn money to pay for rent for a large enough home to hold church meetings in. Then on top of that we sent in tithes and offerings from those earnings. All so we could have the privilege to work a fulltime non paid job doing all the leg work so jackasses in high towers can act important and make policy.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why 95% of their leadership training graduates have fled for more rational endeavors.
And....it was worse than THAT. Many of us corps were assigned every 3 or 4 years to move to another state. From our meager bank accounts, we paid for the U-hauls, the upfront deposits, moving expenses and any incurred storage fees. Upon arrival, we found grads who were hurt and withdrawn as a result of bullying by the departing corps "leader." So, we rolled up our sleeves and toiled to regain their trust, respect and commitment to standards of moral and spiritual integrity. These gains were achieved by perseverance.
Acquiring suitable secular employment was no easy task in a new state. Oftentimes, we didn't have references or recommendations to ease the transition. Needing to "hit the ground running," we had little time to find good secular employment so we'd settle for less....with the prospect of more. Is there any wonder why many corps moved in the circles of self-employment.....painting, landscaping, roofing, window cleaning, commissioned salesperson, etc..... when wierwille demanded ALL CORPS attend Corps Week and ROA each year? These directives exponentially burdened the corps.
With each passing year, the central mandates and burdens from hq mounted. Add babies, toddlers and bills to pay....Oh, My! It was not just the secular job, but all the responsibilities that we were expected to juggle in the circus act. Witnessing. Teaching. Running Classes. Paperwork. How could the trunk office staff be SO OBTUSE to this groundswell of abuse leveled at the field corps? No Region, Trunk or Corps Coordinator had the gonads to tell wierwille (or martindale) that field corps could not keep pace with his narcissistic demands.
Yeah....those jackasses that strut the halls of the OSC Building are the administrative pencil-pushers and looters of the productive. While many of us went into worn-torn states, toiled 70-80 hour weeks and saw God's grace and power in action......the directors, with their greedy-beady eyes, stashed more cash into twi-coffers. Robbing the areas of their strength and ability to grow and prosper....rather than keeping 85% in the state to use for operating expenses, room, building, etc. [agreement that Jimmy Doop outlined with wierwille]. This centralized funneling of abundant sharing to headquarters has been plundering states and areas since its devious inception.
If you ever want to grasp the magnitude of how destructive these cult mandates were to the corps, just look at the massive exodus of field branch, area and limb coordinators. THOSE are the men and women who toiled in the trenches to help others until they could no longer withstand the financial burdens, the plundering from hq in God's name, the bullying and spiritual abuse. Not the staffers at hq. Not the advanced class grads ensconced in good-paying secular employment. The field corps. That's why ruthless directors at HQ are clamoring to have these seasoned field leaders return
Traveling salesman shifting assignments upon a whim, the agreement of a couple in a back room somewhere far away from any rational scrutiny or common knowledge or voting system like the RnR folks who were marked and avoided suggested.
Most of the areas I was in had common characteristics. There were good hearted Christian souls. But pretty much it seemed like about half of the people 50% or so to me were those who had previously been through the Way Corps training, were now Inactive and unhappy. They would target active ones and look for any opportunity to complain or not work with them. Not much possible to do in those situations.
That is all fallout due to shifting standards for what they called Way Corps, irrational acts by megalomaniac leaders - I mean the damn most ridiculously stupid thing was reason for many of these people to be dropped from Corps with all of the stigma and bad feelings attached. So a largely unhappy group even of the ones that still are there. And many hanging on to nostalgia for good old days.
I just have to say reflecting my choice led me into the Way and God knew my heart and led me out of the Way in His time.
And He sees my heart and commitment to Him not some fake damn cult.
"Sky it’s funny I was thinking about this and our training. We were trained product salesmen, no different than traveling around hucking vacuum cleaners or encyclopedias.
The parts of our training that helped instill any kind of discipline in me I am thankful for. Of course the overall arching idea of being groomed as a pawn for a selfish hedonists pleasures is the part that is the most difficult to acknowledge for many, some would prefer a seared conscience and false narrative. That part makes me sick."
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chockfull.......I, too, have given lots of thought about our corps training.From what I remember, the corps application form was two or three generic paragraphs detailing the need to be a better leader to equip the corps for "a lifetime of Christian service."Standard verses were included, italicized and emphasized, to add Christian veneer to the program.But in reality, we were signing over our rights and privileges as individuals and to bow allegiance to the collective assortment of "teachers" and strangers.....er, fellow corps peers in deference to their "spiritual acumen."
What did I know, or research, about wierwille's ability to administer and oversee a training program of young adults?Nothing.Having left college to go WOW Ambassador, I simply took the hype and encouragement of a 6th corps grad as a basis of my decision.In this idealistic frame of mind, I had surrendered my reasoning and logic to my "spiritual betters"........to enter an indoctrination program that led to years of cult-subordination, subjugation and self-denial.
For me, glimpses of twi's untoward secrecy appeared when wierwille castigated corps grads during corps meetings in 1978 for abandoning him/twi.These were NOT the in-residence corps in "training," but corps grads on the field who, after years of involvement, were refusing ongoing leadership assignments to adapt to their new goals, decisions and career paths.Why the vehement anger from wierwille?My mind still held aspects of my college courses in Business Administration, management and marketing.....asking myself, "What right does wierwille have to demand ANYTHING from these corps grads?They were no longer in the training program, right?They were "out on their own" with a future stretching out before them.I held these thoughts to myself.....but, my thoughts and reasoning were still grounded in the reality that each person has the right to determine his'/her goals and destiny.
Holding to these thoughts, I spent time searching the Scriptures to see if my reasoning was sound.I found dozens of accounts in the Gospels and Epistles that supported personal prayer, meditation and individual accountability.No one in twi would dispute that, right?This collective effort to "move the Word" has boundaries and limits that doesn't (or shouldn't) interfere with one's heart and personal relationship with God the Father, right?I came into the corps program as an individual......why would I not be an individual, with individualistic goals when I graduated?Further, it was clear that there was one mediator between God and man..... and it wasn't wierwille or the way ministry.
Perhaps, this battle of personal boundaries and goals versus the altruistic, collective demand is not just in the fabric of cults, but in religion itself.Perhaps, it is ever-present in a larger world.But for me.....I found that wierwille's programs, and The Way International itself, treated me like property, like an indentured servant.Did this corps "contract" bind me to work, serve and sacrifice to them for the rest of my life?No.Hell no!But THAT is what they expected and demanded.Year after year, I was expected to be assigned to "go forth in areas of concern, interest and need."Who's concern?Theirs.Who's interest?Theirs.Who's need?Theirs.
This was a manipulation of one's consent.Wierwille had devised a program that intimidated our youthful desires and indoctrinated our love for God to vows of a life of twi-servitude.Some saw the red flags early on and exited.Others took years to dismantle this indoctrination and define the proper personal boundaries for themselves against this cult's encroachment or holdings.Some have gone to their grave self-sacrificing never to unravel the mysticism of their overlords.
After the "fog years"..... there was a freshness, a surge of simplicity and respect.Could it be that we had been measuring worth and commitment under the auspices of wierwillism?Perhaps, now..... Craig, Don and Howard will reflect on the systematizing of errors, the ludicrous loyalty oath, and hoist a new flag of "member in particular in the One Body of Christ?"Could we possibly in 1989/1990 be on the threshold of revival and restoration in God's Name?
·For by one spirit we are baptized into one body [ I Cor. 12: 13 ]
·Now God has set the members, every one, as it has pleased Him.
Just when I'd accepted a new assignment as Oklahoma Limb Coordinator in August 1992 ..........I began to see the entrenchment of the old ways of wierwille's system resurface again.Each year to follow, the mass formation collectivism in twi grew in direct proportion to martindale's ego, a jockstrap mentality of "us versus them."Thankfully, I was 900 miles away and this distance provided a barrier, for awhile, of this centralized encroachment (again).
But for all of us who know twi's failings, each year from 1992 onward escalated its cultish approach across every boundary line......personal, marriage, family, career. Anything that detracted from twi's agenda of control was targeted. Twi was indeed anti-family, anti-career, anti-Christian. One of the most effective weapons in their arsenal was *The Purge.*If you didn't attend the "new" advanced class, then you would be PURGED from the roster of advanced class grads.Unproductive people were purged.Even spiritual suspicion was relegated to a manifestation of the spirit. Homo purge.If you were known to be listening to old wineskin tapes and music from the "cop-outs"..... then you would be effectively be put on probation with the threat of being purged from the twi-household. The overlords spoke it into being.......and thus, obedience to the collective was mandated and mandatory, or else.
The mission of "Word over the World" was updated to "The Prevailing Word."Mission creep.Every standard was upgraded.History of errors that got us to this point were negated.New themes were pronounced from central headquarters and needed to be followed without critical thought or dissent.Incremental steps of compliance.Incremental steps of control.What the twi-bureaucracy took away, they never gave back.Enough compliance was never enough.
Then, in 1995.....the Granddaddy Purge of all, "All Corps Mandated to Full-Time Service."Twi needs you as a full-time minister in this prevailing decade of service.Rev. Martindale received revelation from God, doncha know? If you do not commit, then you are no longer a corps graduate. That signed diploma doesn't mean squat.....get it? Now, jump! All committed corps need to sign on the line.No, no..... you don't need to ask a thousand questions, we've got it covered.We'll put you on payroll and take care of your needs.Promise.Expect great things.God is behind this.We are going to see this prevailing word move like never before.
Yes, I've written all this in my story "Insanity on Steroids."
And yet, I see the same incremental and encroachment steps from wierwille's past (1957-1982) and rivenbark's encroachment (2000-2017)..... and incremental encroachment in the world at large.These truisms are found everywhere there are lords, tyrants, dictators and narcissists.Individual responsibility and personal boundaries are fundamental to freedom from cults and splinter groups.How many times does one need to be re-taught fundamental truths while sending tithes and offerings to church/cult leaders who pontificate mandates from on high when ascertaining scriptures is readily available?
If it's vague, opaque, incremental, encroaching, accusing, purging....it's probably bad.
........ the same incremental and encroachment steps from wierwille's past (1957-1982) and rivenbark's encroachment (2000-2017)..... and incremental encroachment in the world at large.These truisms are found everywhere there are lords, tyrants, dictators and narcissists.Individual responsibility and personal boundaries are fundamental to freedom from cults and splinter groups.How many times does one need to be re-taught fundamental truths while sending tithes and offerings to church/cult leaders who pontificate mandates from on high when ascertaining scriptures is readily available?
If it's vague, opaque, incremental, encroaching, accusing, purging....it's probably bad.
Some of us, here at GSC......have been proactively searching, analyzing and unraveling the twi-deception for over 20 years. Through the years, posters (mostly corps) have brought forth significant information of past situations and events that have been silenced in cover-up tactics. Thus, it is understandable how later corps and advanced class grads who became involved after 1978 were unaware of the depth and depravity of wierwille and his enablers.
The top-down power structure in twi quickly amassed more power and control after 1972.
Vague --- the corps program was an allegiance to wierwille. Under the guise of vague terms and commitments, the corps program was billed as training those with natural leadership abilities for "a lifetime of Christian service." There was a mystique of a "secret society" training for the spiritual elite.....few corps grads would divulge the ins-and-outs of their corps training. Vows of silence. Lock box secrets.
Opaque --- many came to understand glimpses of *the way international* from reading Elena Whiteside's book The Way: Living in Love. Highly sanitized and sophomoric in content, very little transparency (opaque) was gained by a sycophant reading of this book. Classes, programs, history, finances, etc.... were deliberately opaque. If one probed to ask more questions, then he was soon confronted and targeted for being untrusting, a dissident.
Incremental --- perhaps, one could dismiss wierwille's ministry as a rumbling, bumbling, back-woods organization that was overwhelmed with rapid growth. But when incremental patterns form consistently to advance power and growth......one sees that this "power highway" ONLY GOES IN ONE DIRECTION..... centralizing authoritarian control. Individual independence recedes and dependency on twi for direction and guidance in life ascends. Note: "Christ in you" teachings were rarely taught or emphasized (by 1978).....twi had become the *mediator* between you and God to pacify one's guilt and condemnation of sin. Just stay faithful to going to twig and you, indeed, are in "good standing with God." Sleight-of-hand.....in plain sight.
Encroaching ---without the corps program, wierwille would have been unable to implement his narcissistic agenda of lusts and power. And further, when the 6th Corps sign-ups had crossed beyond 300....the trustees scrambled to find a campus. No way could headquarters house, feed and train this surge of growth. The college of Emporia was empty and on the market for sale. Thus, the 6th corps went in-rez at Emporia. Parents and families, too, wanted to be "trained".....so Family Corps were in training at Rome City, Indiana.
Nothing amplified wierwille's power and control throughout twi more than the corps program. It contained all the elements of a cult subculture: 1) isolation, 2) levels of allegiance, 3) pecking order, 4) allegiance to the "man of God," 5) secret teachings and status, 6) two-tier system of spirituality, 7) and wierwille relished in adding fuel to this burning fire. Encroachment flourished.
Accusing --- the pyramid structure in twi was absolute. No one held wierwille to account. He ruled by manipulation, intimidation and fear. His judgments were never over-ruled. Whether it was his failure over the first corps program (of which, he deflected blame and labeled it "the zero corps).... or his failure to produce an updated pfal class (PFAL '77). His enablers and inner circle would obfuscate the failures/details and keep the wierwille-mystique alive. The corps were to blame, at times, for some of his failings or "prophecies." All those Camp Gunnison prophecies of a unique western-style restaurant on the hillside, retirement cabins and center for elder corps, a dynamic summer-fun family camps, etc. .... fell to the wayside because the corps didn't believe. When more corps began exiting by 1977 and 1978, wierwille started sending out his personal corps letters to the corps household. He opined that corps were leaving him....... accusing corps of forsaking him.
Purging --- looking back, I see that purging the ranks has ALWAYS been one of wierwille's hallmark traits. Narcissists, like petty tyrants...... cannot allow dissent to build. From 1957-1972, vpw struggled to pay the bills and build a following. So, when Perez, Heefner, Doop, and others were having great success, it threatened his (vpw's) backwater teachings at the brc. The youth movements DID NOT NEED WIERWILLE.... life and the power of God were moving mightily without him. Thus, the little narcissist did the thing that authoritarians do. He purged the "rogue leaders" and set the channels of leadership into the hands of establishment control: his corps leaders. Then, the vows of silence (cover-up) were issued. Move on. No talking about this power-grab and purge.
Same thing happened with the three 8th corps who did "rogue research" in 1978. Wierwille had them purged from the corps. Wierwille fumed about this for months. Those who were on the research team like Charlene witnessed the core deception that twi didn't really do biblical research. In fact, there were several others who were purged thru the years from the research department. See the pattern? It is easily documented that wierwille/twi has been purging leaders since 1969 or so. Also, in the isolated confines of corps campuses and motor coaches, wierwille could PURGE ANY CORPS GIRL who refused his sexual predation and label her "possessed." Cult leaders hold absolute power of purging the ranks whenever they cross his agenda.
Long-standing staffers were systematically purged from headquarters ..... and faithful twig coordinators on the field were purged from their positions and replaced with corps-trained sycophants. These purges significantly changed the *old ways* with an aggressive, lockstep agenda. The gentle, God-loving staffers were strategically replaced with the young, brown shirt-loyalists. Many saw the signs and headed for the exit doors (1977-1980).
Harry Wierwille died in October 1977. No longer did wierwille have his older brother around to look over his shoulder. Some have indicated on GSC that this, too, allowed wierwille to be unleashed. His narcissism, mixed with sexual predation, was racing against the clock. Wierwille was 60 years old and all those years of heavy drinking were taking its toll.
Martindale, too, implemented a series of purges from 1992-2000..... each and every purge added to the fear and frenzied atmosphere at the time. And, many splinter groups went thru iterations of purging others. In fact, CES/STFI was notably altered during their "Momentus" push to cycle people thru that extreme guilt/confession/isolation that targeted and destroyed lives.
If it's vague, opaque, incremental, encroaching, accusing, purging....it's probably bad.
Some of us, here at GSC......have been proactively searching, analyzing and unraveling the twi-deception for over 20 years. Through the years, posters (mostly corps) have brought forth significant information of past situations and events that have been silenced in cover-up tactics. Thus, it is understandable how later corps and advanced class grads who became involved after 1978 were unaware of the depth and depravity of wierwille and his enablers.
Unraveling the TWI-deception is a big deal, Skyrider !!!!
That’s why I think the value of Grease Spot Café is too great to be calculated. Your statement made me think of that proverb "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it." – and I believe the original saying was by George Santayana and is actually: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."…
…anyway for post-purges-and-cover-ups way corps and Advanced Class grads, it would be wise for them to delve into Grease Spot Café – especially perusing threads like this one – and do some SERIOUS REFLECTION …if they’re HONEST they might even sense some disillusionment they’ve ignored - over the failure of the Advanced Class / the way corps program to fulfill its declared goals AND maybe - if their cognitive skills aren’t totally sedated by now – they might even catch a glimpse of the inconsistencies between the actions of certain TWI-leaders and the ideals they supposedly represent.
Yes sky we withdrew our consent to manipulation when we exited the organization.
I connect with so much of what you are describing. That cult is very dependent upon a silent group of people to carry out orders unquestioning.
Pawns in the game of chess. This is why upon scrutiny I use the word cult. Because despite the fundamentalist home Christian label on the outside, what is on the inside the activity or how the organization interacts with it's leaders ranks more resembles Scientology than it does a Lutheran synod.
Speaking of Heefner and Doop, I came across this bit of history of the early, INDEPENDENT days of the late 1960's hippy Jesus movement. VPW stole their work and followers.
"Communal ‘hippie house’ in S.F. Bay Area was ground zero for Jesus Movement
By Mark Ellis –
They called it the Big House, a large ranch house in Novato, California, situated on a former egg farm, where four hippie couples set their careers aside to live together with their children at the height of the Sixties.
Evangelist Lonnie Frisbee crashed on their living room floor during the formative months of his early Christian life and grew under their influence, before he joined Pastor Chuck Smith and rode the wave of the Spirit in Southern California.
Steve and Sandi Heefner were influential in getting the four couples together. Steve, a disc jockey, landed in the Bay Area with his wife in 1965. “We moved a lot, every year, because of radio, to get to a bigger market,” he notes.
They settled in Sausalito and began reaching out to make friends. Sandi went to a Newcomer’s Club put on by the city and met Liz Wise, who appeared “exotic.”
Sandi, a nominal Roman Catholic, planned a dinner party with Liz and her husband Ted, a former agnostic who had recently become a Christian. Sandy also invited Jim and Judy Doop, grade school friends from the East Bay. The three couples hit it off in a spectacular fashion.
Once they got to know each other, Ted and Liz invited friends from Berkeley, Danny and Sandy Sands, into their group.
“This was not an accumulation of Christians wanting something to happen, we were just friends trying to get to know each other,” Sandy notes.
Ted Wise had recently been tripping on LSD, trying to figure out what to do with his life, when he met Jesus Christ and was born again. Some credit Ted as being the first convert of the Jesus People Movement.
“Ted began to talk about putting something together that would further Jesus Christ into ordinary lives,” Sandi recalls. “We started discussing this thing and decided we would have potlucks together.” Then the idea progressed to finding a house where they could live together – including the seven young children between them.
Sandi was initially wary about communal living, but Ted and the others were swept up in the enthusiasm of “what was happening at the time.”
“I was not for it,” Sandi admits. But then she had an unusual experience that changed her thinking and renewed her faith.
“Steve and I were having a lot of marital problems and were not getting along,” she recalls. “Our arguments and differences were becoming public.”
A sign in the night sky
One weekend Steve and Sandi decided they would go camping together along the coast. They couldn’t seem to find the right campsite and stopped at a hamburger stand, where the couple began arguing in public.
“That night I was so ....ed I didn’t even put my sleeping bag near him. I was crying to the Lord. I knew my marriage was dissolving.”
As Sandi looked up at the night sky, she saw an unusual formation of stars she had never seen before. “I saw a huge figure-eight made out of stars.”
She recognized it as a sign from God, that “He is contacting me and I’m supposed to be the eighth member of this community. I knew that was his signal to me personally and I understood I was called. But I was way out of my element as a Roman Catholic,” she says.
As far as they knew, they were the first Christian hippie community in northern California. “We were the first one I had heard of, of real families with small children and careers, dropping everything to become an evangelical arm.”
“They gave up everything, sold everything and moved in together,” Connie Frisbee recalls. “Many people think this is where the explosion happened. I find this story about these four couples as big as the story about Lonnie, because these people were in their twenties and had jobs. They had lives that were already moving in a direction.
“It would be like coming to me after I worked at UPS for 10 years and had kids and saying quit your job, take your kids and move in with these other four couples, sell everything you have and just keep what you need to function as one unit. That was an enormous sacrifice.”
“They decided to live like the Book of Acts,” she adds. Some referred to their commune as the House of Acts.
People in the neighborhood began to notice. “The word got out in Novato that there was a hippie community so we attracted all the teenagers from Novato,” Sandi says. “So every day after school there would be a bunch of kids sitting in our living room wanting to know what was happening. There was magic in the air. We witnessed to them about Jesus. On Friday nights the house was jammed with teens, the Lord brought the crowd. Many souls were harvested.”
As the four couples and their children settled into the Big House in 1967, an unusual social phenomenon was taking place that summer in San Francisco. Thousands of young people in hippie attire were converging on the city’s Haight Ashbury district.
“We started taking donuts on a Friday night into San Francisco because so many kids were coming into town,” Steve recounts. It turned into street conversations, with the couples witnessing for Christ.
The need was so great, they decided to set up a mission in the city that became known as The Living Room. “The Living Room was a little storefront,” Connie Frisbee recalls. “It was one block down off Haight on Page in what is called the Panhandle.” Several churches in the area provided support to help them get started.
The four women in the Big House made a huge batch of soup using a baby bottle sterilizer and the men carried it into the city in the morning and it was given away for free. “People would come in and chat and have soup. One day Charles Manson came through and that was rattling. He was just a weird kid that came to lunch.”
“You never knew when you woke up that morning where God was going to send you to minister that day,” Sandi says. Sometimes they would go to Market Street or Golden Gate Park to spread the Gospel. They would go out wherever God was leading them for the day, in twos or threes.
When the men returned to the house from their daily outreach in the city they always had extra guests with them. The guests could stay for several days. “Every night there was a meal laid out of homemade breads and chicken enchiladas and vegetables. We brought as many people to the house as we could and witness to them,” Connie Frisbee recounts. Much of the food was donated by local stores.
“We would sit around in the evening and read the Bible, play conga drums, beat on books or maracas and worship the Lord that way. We would talk about our day with the Holy Spirit. Had God given anybody any insights? Did they read something in the Bible they didn’t understand? We would discuss and come to a better understanding of it.
“There wasn’t a set pattern. It wasn’t like every Sunday we do this. It wasn’t like that. It was really moving in the Spirit. We saw so many miracles and so many coincidences. We just knew God was doing stuff in our lives all the time.”
The kids they invited to stay were rough around the edges. “Some had not bathed, but covered it with patchouli oil. I can’t stand the smell of it. Every sleeping bag and towel reeked of that oil,” Sandi recounts.
With four couples, seven children, plus additional guests, there were usually 20 mouths to feed every night. “We had these extra kids coming and had no income at the time. We were living on the graciousness of our Father.”
“Some of the men would get painting jobs,” Connie Frisbee recalls. “One was a cigarette salesman. Ted Wise was a sail maker. Steve Heefner was a disc jockey but lost his job because he told people he accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior.”
Steve and another one of the men made $20 a week sweeping a church. “We could count on $20 a week for food,” Sandi notes. “We had a communal moneybox on the wall in the kitchen. If you got any money you put it in, and if you needed any you took it out. All four families lived on that little box. For a year and a half we never knew how we were going to be fed that day and God never missed a meal.”
The couples had surprisingly little conflict. “We were so busy evangelizing there was no time for minor skirmishes,” Sandi says.
The largest bedroom in the House of Acts was given to the children. “All seven children were in one bedroom. My son was out of his gourd he was so excited. The room was trashed almost every day. We asked who did this? They would all point to someone else, so you would have six different versions of who did it. The kids loved it. But we were working all the time.”
Lonnie Frisbee arrives
Steve met Lonnie Frisbee in Haight Ashbury walking down the street. At the time, Lonnie was attending the San Francisco School of Art. “Lonnie was a spectacular character. He was an out front, open witness at that time, known on the street,” Steve says.
Lonnie was also a new believer that needed some help sorting out his theology. “They saw him telling people about Jesus on the streets, but he had flying saucers mixed in with the presentation of Jesus,” Connie Frisbee recalls. “They ministered to Lonnie and he saw the ability to be in service all the time so he moved in with them.
Lonnie began sleeping in a sleeping bag on the living room floor of the Big House. “Lonnie was very L.A. and a showbiz kid,” Sandi says. “He was out there even for us. He did spectacular things — miracles.
“Lonnie would be driving down the road and tell somebody, ‘turn at this corner, stop at the next stop.’ There would be somebody standing on the corner that he knew when he was a child. Lonnie would jump out, and the person would get saved right there on the corner.
“It happened over and over and over again. He had long hair like Jesus and wore robes. When it came to spiritual matters, Lonnie could produce. He was an extension of our community.”
Lonnie brought Connie into the Big House and she eventually became his wife. When Connie noticed all the work the women were doing she immediately started helping with the children, the laundry, and the cooking. “She was fabulous,” Sandi recalls. “I’ve never seen hunger for the word like Connie.”
Steve and Sandi went away one summer for an intensive Bible study on a farm in Ohio under the direction of Victor Paul Wierwille, the originator of The Way International.
When they returned from Ohio and Connie learned about their study of the Word, she began to follow Sandi around. “Every morning before I got out of bed she was dressed and sitting at the door of my bedroom with a paper and pencil ready for me to teach her. She followed me all day long, day after day. This went on day after day. She was waiting for me to get up and teach her. I never saw anybody with that kind of hunger for the Word.”
“As Connie and Lonnie hung around they ended up courting and marrying,” Steve adds.
When the living room of the House of Acts filled up with young people, shoulder-to-shoulder, they asked a Lutheran church nearby if they could use one of their large meeting rooms. “They allowed us access to their church every Friday night. So we had hundreds of kids come in and many got saved there,” Sandi says.
After Steve and Sandi returned from their summer away, they thought their community was slipping into legalism. One of the women living with them had a heavy cigarette problem. “The community decided that since she had a problem nobody could come in who had any cigarettes on them. We knew it was wrong, not based on the Word.”
After living in the Big House for 18 months, Steve and Sandi began to seek God about leaving. They were the first couple to depart. “I know some people think we broke it up by being the first to leave, but in reality it was legalism that broke it up,” she says.
Looking back, they recognize they were at the forefront of the Jesus movement – the first to catch the wave. “We had to be among the first. I didn’t realize as a Catholic there was such a thing as revivals. I wasn’t looking for it. I didn’t recognize it when we were in living it. But years later I looked back and realized we were at the cusp of a revolution and revival.”
The other couples stayed in the house for a while, then went back to their own lives again. “We continued to minister and cooperate with each other,” Sandi says.
“We never stopped ministering and continued Bible Studies in our home. I think the country is ready for another revival. I’m hoping I get to see it. I would love to see it come back to the United States.
“We had no idea what we were doing. All we know is that we loved the Lord. Every time we got up in the morning we had no idea what he had in store for us that day.”
Ted Wise (left) and Danny Sands in The Living Room.
Speaking of Heefner and Doop, I came across this bit of history of the early, INDEPENDENT days of the late 1960's hippy Jesus movement. VPW stole their work and followers.
Rejoice, thanks for the link and WordWolf, thanks for the “link expansion”
…and jumping back to another point - revisiting something Skyrider said earlier:
“Incremental --- perhaps, one could dismiss wierwille's ministry as a rumbling, bumbling, back-woods organization that was overwhelmed with rapid growth. But when incremental patterns form consistently to advance power and growth......one sees that this "power highway" ONLY GOES IN ONE DIRECTION..... centralizing authoritarian control. Individual independence recedes and dependency on twi for direction and guidance in life ascends. Note: "Christ in you" teachings were rarely taught or emphasized (by 1978).....twi had become the *mediator* between you and God to pacify one's guilt and condemnation of sin. Just stay faithful to going to twig and you, indeed, are in "good standing with God." Sleight-of-hand.....in plain sight.”
~ ~ ~
“incremental” - denoting a small positive or negative change in a variable quantity or function; relating to an increase or addition, especially one of a series on a fixed scale…this is the modus operandi of a harmful and controlling cult-leader…whether it was unintentional or by design…wierwille did NOT come into my life like a wrecking ball immediately destroying my cognitive skills…feelings…intuition…my personhood, my time and resources, finances, family and social connections…it was a slow and sometimes barely perceptible…INCREMENTAL change from WITHIN MYSELF… I would liken it more like wierwille was a crooked developer – who came into town and got me to invest in his promises of accelerated self-development, self-improvement, self-actualization…I should have read the fine print…he wasn’t concerned about MYSELF – but HIMSELF.
…I think a “great” harmful and controlling cult-leader must first become the ultimate saboteur. It is by his deliberate actions…teachings…influence that he takes aim at weakening the cognitive skills, intuition, and the social ties of family and friends of new recruits. And again I say – whether it was unintentional or by design is NOT the issue. Trying to figure this catastrophe out by speculating on wierwille’s motives is an exercise in futility. I am NOT God. So, my default judgement on this issue is to give wierwille the benefit of a doubt – I honestly think he really believed he truly served God and God's people. But as the old proverb goes “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” - wrong or evil actions are often undertaken with good intentions...and the variable of that - good intentions when acted upon may have unintended consequences.
What are intentions? They are merely guiding principles for our thoughts, attitudes, choices, and actions. Usually our intentions make us feel good about the beliefs we have. But intentions become irrelevant if they are not aligned with actions…so I try to keep my focus on actions, things that were said and done, observations, experiences, events, situations. And in doing so I have looked at how well the publicly stated intentions of wierwille/ the TWI-gatekeepers aligned with Christian ideology.
I believe Jesus Christ set forth the two highest priorities for his followers in Matthew 22: 37 – 40 - to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. ..from that passage it seems obvious to me that HOW we TREAT people matters to God...so it makes sense that we should judge ourselves on how we actually deal with people rather than judging ourselves on why we think we serve God's people...
...I think it’s important to frequently evaluate our actions to see if they are in tune with our ideology…for me, that’s pretty much one of the big takeaways of this thread – the acid test for wierwille and all the TWI-gatekeepers – is to see how well do their actions/words/ideology line up with the basic tenets of Christianity.
The concept of being incremental is important to understand how one gets sucked into a harmful and controlling cult…and perhaps is mirrored in how one slowly extricates from a cult once they’ve reached a tipping point of experiences, red flags and realizations.
How I was sucked in: I responded favorably to malignant ideas run up the flagpole – in PFAL, Twig fellowships, big rally events, etc., then many other soft-sell tactics come into play which subtly persuaded me to buy more and more into TWI’s ideology…And realistically there’s no one cut-and-dried method for ensnaring folks in a harmful and controlling cult. There are so many variables to consider like one’s personality, social needs…usually
new recruits are young and naïve so critical thinking skills are not really developed…
thus the road to indoctrination is NOT shock therapy but rather a GRADUAL immersion…
it’s like a PROLONGED SEDUCTIVE INTOXICATNG “romance”…a cult luring neophytes to take bigger and bigger sips of the Kool-Aid…using manipulative tactics like love-bombing, the subtle influence of peer pressure and groupthink......claiming to provide solid answers about life, having a purpose, God, marriage, finances, whatever…
wierwille was the original gatekeeper – the attendant at the gate of pseudo-Christianity, he controlled who went through it…this intellectual/emotional gate functioned like a one-way turnstile – like I remember from using the subway system in New York – it only allows pedestrian access in one direction…and brings to mind another fatal scenario - the widely known tagline of the Roach Motel - "Roaches check in, but they don't check out!"…
let’s morph it to a tagline for The Way International – “suckers check in, but they don’t check out”.
Edited by T-Bone editor has become the Typos-keeper
The basic aims of a slogan or tagline are summarized below:
1. ) Creates positive imagery about your product
2.) Promotes a campaign for not only a single product but a range of products
3.) Compels the audience to ‘stop-and-think’
4.) Makes your brand stand out from the clutter
5.) Increases demand for your product
= = = = = =
Now I will elaborate on why I think it was an effective or cognitive-skills-honoring notice I said “I think” – so I could be wrong …but anyway – here’s the above summary in an expanded literal translation according to T-Bone’s usage (note this involves pros and cons – and maybe secrets the Pros use to pull off their cons ):
1.) Creates negative imagery about The Way International’s products and service – might even be enough to make some TWI-followers wake up and see the Kool-Aid brewing.
2.) Promotes a campaign for not only a single product but a range of products to keep people involved for a lifetime – this might get some TWI-followers to realize the captivating and entangling aspects of a harmful and controlling cult.
3.) Compels the audience to ‘stop-and-think’ – which is always a good thing to do. Unfortunately most people who got involved with TWI did not do that; now realistically TWI would never use such a tagline – but in my goofy world of cult-humor imagine if they did – then it would be along the lines of truth in advertising.
It’s been my experience as well as that of many others – after a length of time and experiences – and it’s different for everyone – there comes a tipping point – you’ve disregarded enough red flags, cognitive dissonances…shrugged off enough bad experiences that you stop and think…that’s taking the first step…I realize it's a bitter pill to swallow - but in order to escape - one has to first realize they've been a "sucker" - that they've been conned... for others, who came to a Twig only a few times or maybe just took PFAL – there was enough clues, evidence of a scam …inconsistencies / incoherent logic and doctrine…or just a bad feeling (intuition) to make them think and reevaluate TWI and so they stop going to Twig.
4.) Makes your brand stand out from the clutter of other harmful and controlling cults. To bastardize another tagline - "an uniformed consumer is our best customer"
5.) Increases demand for your product – for those who can’t get enough of a bad thing…like maybe they have a death wish for their authentic-self.
sorry for my feeble attempt at humor…a joke isn’t funny if it needs to be explained…which brings me to my own tagline “no joke is too sucky for me to tell.”
Rocky - that’s the second time you got on me about that…
…and I think you’re right !
Thank you
I do tend to be caustic
Maybe there was some synchronicity going on in between your first and second “reproof” post. …
After I read your first post I happened to review some old threads - one was on civility in posting by Waysider…and yes I will review Carnegie’s book - How to Win Friends / Influence - good idea!
I will have to take issue with you on your other point though - “People don't make major life decisions based on any kind of logic. They ONLY do so based on emotion”. - I don’t think that is uniformly true of all people.
Reflecting on one of the most heartrending major life decisions I had to make - to leave TWI in 1986…internally it was a perfect storm of logic…observations…a growing sense of disillusionment with an organization that failed to produce or live up to its claims and promises…and the tension of all that against my emotional attachment to the people and something I heavily invested in…
it was not an easy decision and if I would have let some emotions (like fear of losing friends, fear of abandoning “God’s ministry “ and even positive emotions like the love and admiration I had for certain leaders ) take priority over the preponderance of evidence, logic, the re-evaluating of certain TWI doctrine that I had already started to do since that fateful night in Rome City chapel where I heard the passing of the patriarch - it was indeed a long and drawn out decision making process - just like my writing style
…it was a tough internal battle - but for me anyway - I would have to say the logical arguments, correlations with what the Scriptures said about power-grabs, factions, allegiance to the Lord Jesus rather than to earthly leaders trying to lord it over me, and even certain feelings - intuition - something I could not pin down but my gut was telling me there was something wrong…something really really wrong with this organization… my point is all that went counter to some of my emotions urging me to stay and help the organization get back on its feet.
To end my post on a positive - friendly note to you Rocky - and to make amends for hurting our cause - I agree with you totally…being caustic, sarcastic and combative is no way to win friends and influence people. Emotions do play a part in the decision making process - no sense in generating more unpleasant emotions then what’s already brewing inside a troubled soul.
I will have to take issue with you on your other point though - “People don't make major life decisions based on any kind of logic. They ONLY do so based on emotion”. - I don’t think that is uniformly true of all people.
You're probably right on that. I was probably off by saying it was ONLY.
I will have to take issue with you on your other point though - “People don't make major life decisions based on any kind of logic. They ONLY do so based on emotion”. - I don’t think that is uniformly true of all people.
To your point, on which I agree with you:
The speaker (Tali Sharot) in this vid poses that "Most of us think information is the best way to convince people of our truth. And, in fact, it doesn't work that well..." Skip to the end and she says (at 5:20) "The lesson here is that we need to find the common motives.
Thanks for the videos, Rocky – stuff like that is always fascinating.
I think we’re getting off topic – so I’ll make it brief…
Sharot mentioned two things that I think are essential to a change of mind: motives and common ground…thought about this and how it relates to Grease Spot discussions.
Motive - I think this is a key variable – motive is the reason I’m involved in a particular discussion. Is it to expand my horizon? Am I trying to find some answers? Do I just want to argue? Am I trying to expose a logical fallacy? A motive is what causes a person to act. If my motive is to gain a new perspective or to find some answers, I’m probably more likely to change my mind on something.
Common ground – something you or I propose is more likely to be accepted by another if we can tie it to a shared value, common interest…I believe this goes hand in hand with motive. In a discussion – if everyone’s motive is in sync – for example – in a discussion everyone is into exploring all aspects of TWI-gatekeepers. At its best the Socratic method - as a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals that is the common ground - based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presuppositions.
Sky it’s funny I was thinking about this and our training. We were trained product salesmen, no different than traveling around hucking vacuum cleaners or encyclopedias.
The parts of our training that helped instill any kind of discipline in me I am thankful for. Of course the overall arching idea of being groomed as a pawn for a selfish hedonists pleasures is the part that is the most difficult to acknowledge for many, some would prefer a seared conscience and false narrative. That part makes me sick.
I can actually look at most genuine acts I had during that period as a minister to be outside that framework and pattern rather than perpetuating it.
Chockfull.....I absolutely agree with your last point. The most GENUINE acts that I experienced during my twi-tenure were outside the pfal and corps framework and patterns of twi's multi-level-marketing of pawning off hocking classes and material.
Rarily, do I ever talk about the many "God-moments" that I experienced before, during or after twi.... but those high points in life sustained my Christian faith. With humility of heart, trusting in the Lord with all my heart and knowing that He will direct my heart....THAT was true Christianity. Putting Jesus Christ as savior, lord and mediator FRONT AND CENTER......in daily practice and doctrine far surpassed twi's false teachings and counseling.
IMO.....that's why many of us stayed too long in twi. We attributed "the good" to twi.....when, in actuality, it was the Lord's workings of long-suffering, grace and mercy. Peace.
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chockfull
It was worse than that. We worked secular jobs that we couldn't focus on to earn money to pay for rent for a large enough home to hold church meetings in. Then on top of that we sent in tithes and o
WordWolf
From the above link.... "Communal ‘hippie house’ in S.F. Bay Area was ground zero for Jesus Movement By Mark Ellis – They called it the Big House, a large ranch house in Novato, Califor
Rejoice
Speaking of Heefner and Doop, I came across this bit of history of the early, INDEPENDENT days of the late 1960's hippy Jesus movement. VPW stole their work and followers. https://www.godreports
chockfull
It was worse than that. We worked secular jobs that we couldn't focus on to earn money to pay for rent for a large enough home to hold church meetings in. Then on top of that we sent in tithes and offerings from those earnings. All so we could have the privilege to work a fulltime non paid job doing all the leg work so jackasses in high towers can act important and make policy.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why 95% of their leadership training graduates have fled for more rational endeavors.
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skyrider
And....it was worse than THAT. Many of us corps were assigned every 3 or 4 years to move to another state. From our meager bank accounts, we paid for the U-hauls, the upfront deposits, moving expenses and any incurred storage fees. Upon arrival, we found grads who were hurt and withdrawn as a result of bullying by the departing corps "leader." So, we rolled up our sleeves and toiled to regain their trust, respect and commitment to standards of moral and spiritual integrity. These gains were achieved by perseverance.
Acquiring suitable secular employment was no easy task in a new state. Oftentimes, we didn't have references or recommendations to ease the transition. Needing to "hit the ground running," we had little time to find good secular employment so we'd settle for less....with the prospect of more. Is there any wonder why many corps moved in the circles of self-employment.....painting, landscaping, roofing, window cleaning, commissioned salesperson, etc..... when wierwille demanded ALL CORPS attend Corps Week and ROA each year? These directives exponentially burdened the corps.
With each passing year, the central mandates and burdens from hq mounted. Add babies, toddlers and bills to pay....Oh, My! It was not just the secular job, but all the responsibilities that we were expected to juggle in the circus act. Witnessing. Teaching. Running Classes. Paperwork. How could the trunk office staff be SO OBTUSE to this groundswell of abuse leveled at the field corps? No Region, Trunk or Corps Coordinator had the gonads to tell wierwille (or martindale) that field corps could not keep pace with his narcissistic demands.
Yeah....those jackasses that strut the halls of the OSC Building are the administrative pencil-pushers and looters of the productive. While many of us went into worn-torn states, toiled 70-80 hour weeks and saw God's grace and power in action......the directors, with their greedy-beady eyes, stashed more cash into twi-coffers. Robbing the areas of their strength and ability to grow and prosper....rather than keeping 85% in the state to use for operating expenses, room, building, etc. [agreement that Jimmy Doop outlined with wierwille]. This centralized funneling of abundant sharing to headquarters has been plundering states and areas since its devious inception.
If you ever want to grasp the magnitude of how destructive these cult mandates were to the corps, just look at the massive exodus of field branch, area and limb coordinators. THOSE are the men and women who toiled in the trenches to help others until they could no longer withstand the financial burdens, the plundering from hq in God's name, the bullying and spiritual abuse. Not the staffers at hq. Not the advanced class grads ensconced in good-paying secular employment. The field corps. That's why ruthless directors at HQ are clamoring to have these seasoned field leaders return
.
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chockfull
Traveling salesman shifting assignments upon a whim, the agreement of a couple in a back room somewhere far away from any rational scrutiny or common knowledge or voting system like the RnR folks who were marked and avoided suggested.
Most of the areas I was in had common characteristics. There were good hearted Christian souls. But pretty much it seemed like about half of the people 50% or so to me were those who had previously been through the Way Corps training, were now Inactive and unhappy. They would target active ones and look for any opportunity to complain or not work with them. Not much possible to do in those situations.
That is all fallout due to shifting standards for what they called Way Corps, irrational acts by megalomaniac leaders - I mean the damn most ridiculously stupid thing was reason for many of these people to be dropped from Corps with all of the stigma and bad feelings attached. So a largely unhappy group even of the ones that still are there. And many hanging on to nostalgia for good old days.
I just have to say reflecting my choice led me into the Way and God knew my heart and led me out of the Way in His time.
And He sees my heart and commitment to Him not some fake damn cult.
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engine
I'm a little behind on this but I left in '86 and recall hearing it before then, too.
I wonder now why we were so afraid because, after all, we were loaded for bear with Spirit power. Hmmmmm. I guess I was in really bad shape. sigh...
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skyrider
"Sky it’s funny I was thinking about this and our training. We were trained product salesmen, no different than traveling around hucking vacuum cleaners or encyclopedias.
The parts of our training that helped instill any kind of discipline in me I am thankful for. Of course the overall arching idea of being groomed as a pawn for a selfish hedonists pleasures is the part that is the most difficult to acknowledge for many, some would prefer a seared conscience and false narrative. That part makes me sick."
*********************************
chockfull.......I, too, have given lots of thought about our corps training. From what I remember, the corps application form was two or three generic paragraphs detailing the need to be a better leader to equip the corps for "a lifetime of Christian service." Standard verses were included, italicized and emphasized, to add Christian veneer to the program. But in reality, we were signing over our rights and privileges as individuals and to bow allegiance to the collective assortment of "teachers" and
strangers.....er, fellow corps peers in deference to their "spiritual acumen."What did I know, or research, about wierwille's ability to administer and oversee a training program of young adults? Nothing. Having left college to go WOW Ambassador, I simply took the hype and encouragement of a 6th corps grad as a basis of my decision. In this idealistic frame of mind, I had surrendered my reasoning and logic to my "spiritual betters"........to enter an indoctrination program that led to years of cult-subordination, subjugation and self-denial.
For me, glimpses of twi's untoward secrecy appeared when wierwille castigated corps grads during corps meetings in 1978 for abandoning him/twi. These were NOT the in-residence corps in "training," but corps grads on the field who, after years of involvement, were refusing ongoing leadership assignments to adapt to their new goals, decisions and career paths. Why the vehement anger from wierwille? My mind still held aspects of my college courses in Business Administration, management and marketing.....asking myself, "What right does wierwille have to demand ANYTHING from these corps grads? They were no longer in the training program, right? They were "out on their own" with a future stretching out before them. I held these thoughts to myself.....but, my thoughts and reasoning were still grounded in the reality that each person has the right to determine his'/her goals and destiny.
Holding to these thoughts, I spent time searching the Scriptures to see if my reasoning was sound. I found dozens of accounts in the Gospels and Epistles that supported personal prayer, meditation and individual accountability. No one in twi would dispute that, right? This collective effort to "move the Word" has boundaries and limits that doesn't (or shouldn't) interfere with one's heart and personal relationship with God the Father, right? I came into the corps program as an individual......why would I not be an individual, with individualistic goals when I graduated? Further, it was clear that there was one mediator between God and man..... and it wasn't wierwille or the way ministry.
Perhaps, this battle of personal boundaries and goals versus the altruistic, collective demand is not just in the fabric of cults, but in religion itself. Perhaps, it is ever-present in a larger world. But for me.....I found that wierwille's programs, and The Way International itself, treated me like property, like an indentured servant. Did this corps "contract" bind me to work, serve and sacrifice to them for the rest of my life? No. Hell no! But THAT is what they expected and demanded. Year after year, I was expected to be assigned to "go forth in areas of concern, interest and need." Who's concern? Theirs. Who's interest? Theirs. Who's need? Theirs.
This was a manipulation of one's consent. Wierwille had devised a program that intimidated our youthful desires and indoctrinated our love for God to vows of a life of twi-servitude. Some saw the red flags early on and exited. Others took years to dismantle this indoctrination and define the proper personal boundaries for themselves against this cult's encroachment or holdings. Some have gone to their grave self-sacrificing never to unravel the mysticism of their overlords.
After the "fog years"..... there was a freshness, a surge of simplicity and respect. Could it be that we had been measuring worth and commitment under the auspices of wierwillism? Perhaps, now..... Craig, Don and Howard will reflect on the systematizing of errors, the ludicrous loyalty oath, and hoist a new flag of "member in particular in the One Body of Christ?" Could we possibly in 1989/1990 be on the threshold of revival and restoration in God's Name?
· For by one spirit we are baptized into one body [ I Cor. 12: 13 ]
· Now God has set the members, every one, as it has pleased Him.
Just when I'd accepted a new assignment as Oklahoma Limb Coordinator in August 1992 .......... I began to see the entrenchment of the old ways of wierwille's system resurface again. Each year to follow, the mass formation collectivism in twi grew in direct proportion to martindale's ego, a jockstrap mentality of "us versus them." Thankfully, I was 900 miles away and this distance provided a barrier, for awhile, of this centralized encroachment (again).
But for all of us who know twi's failings, each year from 1992 onward escalated its cultish approach across every boundary line......personal, marriage, family, career. Anything that detracted from twi's agenda of control was targeted. Twi was indeed anti-family, anti-career, anti-Christian. One of the most effective weapons in their arsenal was *The Purge.* If you didn't attend the "new" advanced class, then you would be PURGED from the roster of advanced class grads. Unproductive people were purged. Even spiritual suspicion was relegated to a manifestation of the spirit. Homo purge. If you were known to be listening to old wineskin tapes and music from the "cop-outs"..... then you would be effectively be put on probation with the threat of being purged from the twi-household. The overlords spoke it into being.......and thus, obedience to the collective was mandated and mandatory, or else.
The mission of "Word over the World" was updated to "The Prevailing Word." Mission creep. Every standard was upgraded. History of errors that got us to this point were negated. New themes were pronounced from central headquarters and needed to be followed without critical thought or dissent. Incremental steps of compliance. Incremental steps of control. What the twi-bureaucracy took away, they never gave back. Enough compliance was never enough.
Then, in 1995.....the Granddaddy Purge of all, "All Corps Mandated to Full-Time Service." Twi needs you as a full-time minister in this prevailing decade of service. Rev. Martindale received revelation from God, doncha know? If you do not commit, then you are no longer a corps graduate. That signed diploma doesn't mean squat.....get it? Now, jump! All committed corps need to sign on the line. No, no..... you don't need to ask a thousand questions, we've got it covered. We'll put you on payroll and take care of your needs. Promise. Expect great things. God is behind this. We are going to see this prevailing word move like never before.
Yes, I've written all this in my story "Insanity on Steroids."
And yet, I see the same incremental and encroachment steps from wierwille's past (1957-1982) and rivenbark's encroachment (2000-2017)..... and incremental encroachment in the world at large. These truisms are found everywhere there are lords, tyrants, dictators and narcissists. Individual responsibility and personal boundaries are fundamental to freedom from cults and splinter groups. How many times does one need to be re-taught fundamental truths while sending tithes and offerings to church/cult leaders who pontificate mandates from on high when ascertaining scriptures is readily available?
If it's vague, opaque, incremental, encroaching, accusing, purging....it's probably bad.
Thanks for reading.
.
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Rocky
Truth!
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skyrider
Some of us, here at GSC......have been proactively searching, analyzing and unraveling the twi-deception for over 20 years. Through the years, posters (mostly corps) have brought forth significant information of past situations and events that have been silenced in cover-up tactics. Thus, it is understandable how later corps and advanced class grads who became involved after 1978 were unaware of the depth and depravity of wierwille and his enablers.
The top-down power structure in twi quickly amassed more power and control after 1972.
WE WITHDREW OUR CONSENT.
WE EXITED TWI.
.
Edited by skyridertypos
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T-Bone
Unraveling the TWI-deception is a big deal, Skyrider !!!!
That’s why I think the value of Grease Spot Café is too great to be calculated. Your statement made me think of that proverb "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it." – and I believe the original saying was by George Santayana and is actually: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."…
…anyway for post-purges-and-cover-ups way corps and Advanced Class grads, it would be wise for them to delve into Grease Spot Café – especially perusing threads like this one – and do some SERIOUS REFLECTION …if they’re HONEST they might even sense some disillusionment they’ve ignored - over the failure of the Advanced Class / the way corps program to fulfill its declared goals AND maybe - if their cognitive skills aren’t totally sedated by now – they might even catch a glimpse of the inconsistencies between the actions of certain TWI-leaders and the ideals they supposedly represent.
Edited by T-Bonepost-posting edit tee hee
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chockfull
Yes sky we withdrew our consent to manipulation when we exited the organization.
I connect with so much of what you are describing. That cult is very dependent upon a silent group of people to carry out orders unquestioning.
Pawns in the game of chess. This is why upon scrutiny I use the word cult. Because despite the fundamentalist home Christian label on the outside, what is on the inside the activity or how the organization interacts with it's leaders ranks more resembles Scientology than it does a Lutheran synod.
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skyrider
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Rejoice
Speaking of Heefner and Doop, I came across this bit of history of the early, INDEPENDENT days of the late 1960's hippy Jesus movement. VPW stole their work and followers.
https://www.godreports.com/2018/08/communal-hippie-house-in-s-f-bay-area-was-ground-zero-for-jesus-movement/?fbclid=IwAR0Db2IWzotC4dgk3EtA6Hhs6s9ZFzhuIt4muxadCf2CUSWydK9XzJlWe0Y
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WordWolf
From the above link....
"Communal ‘hippie house’ in S.F. Bay Area was ground zero for Jesus Movement
By Mark Ellis –
They called it the Big House, a large ranch house in Novato, California, situated on a former egg farm, where four hippie couples set their careers aside to live together with their children at the height of the Sixties.
Evangelist Lonnie Frisbee crashed on their living room floor during the formative months of his early Christian life and grew under their influence, before he joined Pastor Chuck Smith and rode the wave of the Spirit in Southern California.
Steve and Sandi Heefner were influential in getting the four couples together. Steve, a disc jockey, landed in the Bay Area with his wife in 1965. “We moved a lot, every year, because of radio, to get to a bigger market,” he notes.
They settled in Sausalito and began reaching out to make friends. Sandi went to a Newcomer’s Club put on by the city and met Liz Wise, who appeared “exotic.”
Sandi, a nominal Roman Catholic, planned a dinner party with Liz and her husband Ted, a former agnostic who had recently become a Christian. Sandy also invited Jim and Judy Doop, grade school friends from the East Bay. The three couples hit it off in a spectacular fashion.
Once they got to know each other, Ted and Liz invited friends from Berkeley, Danny and Sandy Sands, into their group.
“This was not an accumulation of Christians wanting something to happen, we were just friends trying to get to know each other,” Sandy notes.
Ted Wise had recently been tripping on LSD, trying to figure out what to do with his life, when he met Jesus Christ and was born again. Some credit Ted as being the first convert of the Jesus People Movement.
“Ted began to talk about putting something together that would further Jesus Christ into ordinary lives,” Sandi recalls. “We started discussing this thing and decided we would have potlucks together.” Then the idea progressed to finding a house where they could live together – including the seven young children between them.
Sandi was initially wary about communal living, but Ted and the others were swept up in the enthusiasm of “what was happening at the time.”
“I was not for it,” Sandi admits. But then she had an unusual experience that changed her thinking and renewed her faith.
“Steve and I were having a lot of marital problems and were not getting along,” she recalls. “Our arguments and differences were becoming public.”
A sign in the night sky
One weekend Steve and Sandi decided they would go camping together along the coast. They couldn’t seem to find the right campsite and stopped at a hamburger stand, where the couple began arguing in public.
“That night I was so ....ed I didn’t even put my sleeping bag near him. I was crying to the Lord. I knew my marriage was dissolving.”
As Sandi looked up at the night sky, she saw an unusual formation of stars she had never seen before. “I saw a huge figure-eight made out of stars.”
She recognized it as a sign from God, that “He is contacting me and I’m supposed to be the eighth member of this community. I knew that was his signal to me personally and I understood I was called. But I was way out of my element as a Roman Catholic,” she says.
As far as they knew, they were the first Christian hippie community in northern California. “We were the first one I had heard of, of real families with small children and careers, dropping everything to become an evangelical arm.”
“They gave up everything, sold everything and moved in together,” Connie Frisbee recalls. “Many people think this is where the explosion happened. I find this story about these four couples as big as the story about Lonnie, because these people were in their twenties and had jobs. They had lives that were already moving in a direction.
“It would be like coming to me after I worked at UPS for 10 years and had kids and saying quit your job, take your kids and move in with these other four couples, sell everything you have and just keep what you need to function as one unit. That was an enormous sacrifice.”
“They decided to live like the Book of Acts,” she adds. Some referred to their commune as the House of Acts.
People in the neighborhood began to notice. “The word got out in Novato that there was a hippie community so we attracted all the teenagers from Novato,” Sandi says. “So every day after school there would be a bunch of kids sitting in our living room wanting to know what was happening. There was magic in the air. We witnessed to them about Jesus. On Friday nights the house was jammed with teens, the Lord brought the crowd. Many souls were harvested.”
As the four couples and their children settled into the Big House in 1967, an unusual social phenomenon was taking place that summer in San Francisco. Thousands of young people in hippie attire were converging on the city’s Haight Ashbury district.
“We started taking donuts on a Friday night into San Francisco because so many kids were coming into town,” Steve recounts. It turned into street conversations, with the couples witnessing for Christ.
The need was so great, they decided to set up a mission in the city that became known as The Living Room. “The Living Room was a little storefront,” Connie Frisbee recalls. “It was one block down off Haight on Page in what is called the Panhandle.” Several churches in the area provided support to help them get started.
The four women in the Big House made a huge batch of soup using a baby bottle sterilizer and the men carried it into the city in the morning and it was given away for free. “People would come in and chat and have soup. One day Charles Manson came through and that was rattling. He was just a weird kid that came to lunch.”
“You never knew when you woke up that morning where God was going to send you to minister that day,” Sandi says. Sometimes they would go to Market Street or Golden Gate Park to spread the Gospel. They would go out wherever God was leading them for the day, in twos or threes.
When the men returned to the house from their daily outreach in the city they always had extra guests with them. The guests could stay for several days. “Every night there was a meal laid out of homemade breads and chicken enchiladas and vegetables. We brought as many people to the house as we could and witness to them,” Connie Frisbee recounts. Much of the food was donated by local stores.
“We would sit around in the evening and read the Bible, play conga drums, beat on books or maracas and worship the Lord that way. We would talk about our day with the Holy Spirit. Had God given anybody any insights? Did they read something in the Bible they didn’t understand? We would discuss and come to a better understanding of it.
“There wasn’t a set pattern. It wasn’t like every Sunday we do this. It wasn’t like that. It was really moving in the Spirit. We saw so many miracles and so many coincidences. We just knew God was doing stuff in our lives all the time.”
The kids they invited to stay were rough around the edges. “Some had not bathed, but covered it with patchouli oil. I can’t stand the smell of it. Every sleeping bag and towel reeked of that oil,” Sandi recounts.
With four couples, seven children, plus additional guests, there were usually 20 mouths to feed every night. “We had these extra kids coming and had no income at the time. We were living on the graciousness of our Father.”
“Some of the men would get painting jobs,” Connie Frisbee recalls. “One was a cigarette salesman. Ted Wise was a sail maker. Steve Heefner was a disc jockey but lost his job because he told people he accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior.”
Steve and another one of the men made $20 a week sweeping a church. “We could count on $20 a week for food,” Sandi notes. “We had a communal moneybox on the wall in the kitchen. If you got any money you put it in, and if you needed any you took it out. All four families lived on that little box. For a year and a half we never knew how we were going to be fed that day and God never missed a meal.”
The couples had surprisingly little conflict. “We were so busy evangelizing there was no time for minor skirmishes,” Sandi says.
The largest bedroom in the House of Acts was given to the children. “All seven children were in one bedroom. My son was out of his gourd he was so excited. The room was trashed almost every day. We asked who did this? They would all point to someone else, so you would have six different versions of who did it. The kids loved it. But we were working all the time.”
Lonnie Frisbee arrives
Steve met Lonnie Frisbee in Haight Ashbury walking down the street. At the time, Lonnie was attending the San Francisco School of Art. “Lonnie was a spectacular character. He was an out front, open witness at that time, known on the street,” Steve says.
Lonnie was also a new believer that needed some help sorting out his theology. “They saw him telling people about Jesus on the streets, but he had flying saucers mixed in with the presentation of Jesus,” Connie Frisbee recalls. “They ministered to Lonnie and he saw the ability to be in service all the time so he moved in with them.
Lonnie began sleeping in a sleeping bag on the living room floor of the Big House. “Lonnie was very L.A. and a showbiz kid,” Sandi says. “He was out there even for us. He did spectacular things — miracles.
“Lonnie would be driving down the road and tell somebody, ‘turn at this corner, stop at the next stop.’ There would be somebody standing on the corner that he knew when he was a child. Lonnie would jump out, and the person would get saved right there on the corner.
“It happened over and over and over again. He had long hair like Jesus and wore robes. When it came to spiritual matters, Lonnie could produce. He was an extension of our community.”
Lonnie brought Connie into the Big House and she eventually became his wife. When Connie noticed all the work the women were doing she immediately started helping with the children, the laundry, and the cooking. “She was fabulous,” Sandi recalls. “I’ve never seen hunger for the word like Connie.”
Steve and Sandi went away one summer for an intensive Bible study on a farm in Ohio under the direction of Victor Paul Wierwille, the originator of The Way International.
When they returned from Ohio and Connie learned about their study of the Word, she began to follow Sandi around. “Every morning before I got out of bed she was dressed and sitting at the door of my bedroom with a paper and pencil ready for me to teach her. She followed me all day long, day after day. This went on day after day. She was waiting for me to get up and teach her. I never saw anybody with that kind of hunger for the Word.”
“As Connie and Lonnie hung around they ended up courting and marrying,” Steve adds.
When the living room of the House of Acts filled up with young people, shoulder-to-shoulder, they asked a Lutheran church nearby if they could use one of their large meeting rooms. “They allowed us access to their church every Friday night. So we had hundreds of kids come in and many got saved there,” Sandi says.
After Steve and Sandi returned from their summer away, they thought their community was slipping into legalism. One of the women living with them had a heavy cigarette problem. “The community decided that since she had a problem nobody could come in who had any cigarettes on them. We knew it was wrong, not based on the Word.”
After living in the Big House for 18 months, Steve and Sandi began to seek God about leaving. They were the first couple to depart. “I know some people think we broke it up by being the first to leave, but in reality it was legalism that broke it up,” she says.
Looking back, they recognize they were at the forefront of the Jesus movement – the first to catch the wave. “We had to be among the first. I didn’t realize as a Catholic there was such a thing as revivals. I wasn’t looking for it. I didn’t recognize it when we were in living it. But years later I looked back and realized we were at the cusp of a revolution and revival.”
The other couples stayed in the house for a while, then went back to their own lives again. “We continued to minister and cooperate with each other,” Sandi says.
“We never stopped ministering and continued Bible Studies in our home. I think the country is ready for another revival. I’m hoping I get to see it. I would love to see it come back to the United States.
“We had no idea what we were doing. All we know is that we loved the Lord. Every time we got up in the morning we had no idea what he had in store for us that day.”
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Twinky
Very interesting link, Rejoice. Thanks.
I see WW has copied it entirely, for ease of reference, perhaps, for some people.
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T-Bone
Rejoice, thanks for the link and WordWolf, thanks for the “link expansion”
…and jumping back to another point - revisiting something Skyrider said earlier:
“Incremental --- perhaps, one could dismiss wierwille's ministry as a rumbling, bumbling, back-woods organization that was overwhelmed with rapid growth. But when incremental patterns form consistently to advance power and growth......one sees that this "power highway" ONLY GOES IN ONE DIRECTION..... centralizing authoritarian control. Individual independence recedes and dependency on twi for direction and guidance in life ascends. Note: "Christ in you" teachings were rarely taught or emphasized (by 1978).....twi had become the *mediator* between you and God to pacify one's guilt and condemnation of sin. Just stay faithful to going to twig and you, indeed, are in "good standing with God." Sleight-of-hand.....in plain sight.”
~ ~ ~
“incremental” - denoting a small positive or negative change in a variable quantity or function; relating to an increase or addition, especially one of a series on a fixed scale…this is the modus operandi of a harmful and controlling cult-leader…whether it was unintentional or by design…wierwille did NOT come into my life like a wrecking ball immediately destroying my cognitive skills…feelings…intuition…my personhood, my time and resources, finances, family and social connections…it was a slow and sometimes barely perceptible…INCREMENTAL change from WITHIN MYSELF… I would liken it more like wierwille was a crooked developer – who came into town and got me to invest in his promises of accelerated self-development, self-improvement, self-actualization…I should have read the fine print…he wasn’t concerned about MYSELF – but HIMSELF.
…I think a “great” harmful and controlling cult-leader must first become the ultimate saboteur. It is by his deliberate actions…teachings…influence that he takes aim at weakening the cognitive skills, intuition, and the social ties of family and friends of new recruits. And again I say – whether it was unintentional or by design is NOT the issue. Trying to figure this catastrophe out by speculating on wierwille’s motives is an exercise in futility. I am NOT God. So, my default judgement on this issue is to give wierwille the benefit of a doubt – I honestly think he really believed he truly served God and God's people. But as the old proverb goes “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” - wrong or evil actions are often undertaken with good intentions...and the variable of that - good intentions when acted upon may have unintended consequences.
What are intentions? They are merely guiding principles for our thoughts, attitudes, choices, and actions. Usually our intentions make us feel good about the beliefs we have. But intentions become irrelevant if they are not aligned with actions…so I try to keep my focus on actions, things that were said and done, observations, experiences, events, situations. And in doing so I have looked at how well the publicly stated intentions of wierwille/ the TWI-gatekeepers aligned with Christian ideology.
I believe Jesus Christ set forth the two highest priorities for his followers in Matthew 22: 37 – 40 - to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. ..from that passage it seems obvious to me that HOW we TREAT people matters to God...so it makes sense that we should judge ourselves on how we actually deal with people rather than judging ourselves on why we think we serve God's people...
...I think it’s important to frequently evaluate our actions to see if they are in tune with our ideology…for me, that’s pretty much one of the big takeaways of this thread – the acid test for wierwille and all the TWI-gatekeepers – is to see how well do their actions/words/ideology line up with the basic tenets of Christianity.
The concept of being incremental is important to understand how one gets sucked into a harmful and controlling cult…and perhaps is mirrored in how one slowly extricates from a cult once they’ve reached a tipping point of experiences, red flags and realizations.
How I was sucked in: I responded favorably to malignant ideas run up the flagpole – in PFAL, Twig fellowships, big rally events, etc., then many other soft-sell tactics come into play which subtly persuaded me to buy more and more into TWI’s ideology…And realistically there’s no one cut-and-dried method for ensnaring folks in a harmful and controlling cult. There are so many variables to consider like one’s personality, social needs…usually
new recruits are young and naïve so critical thinking skills are not really developed…
thus the road to indoctrination is NOT shock therapy but rather a GRADUAL immersion…
it’s like a PROLONGED SEDUCTIVE INTOXICATNG “romance”…a cult luring neophytes to take bigger and bigger sips of the Kool-Aid…using manipulative tactics like love-bombing, the subtle influence of peer pressure and groupthink......claiming to provide solid answers about life, having a purpose, God, marriage, finances, whatever…
wierwille was the original gatekeeper – the attendant at the gate of pseudo-Christianity, he controlled who went through it…this intellectual/emotional gate functioned like a one-way turnstile – like I remember from using the subway system in New York – it only allows pedestrian access in one direction…and brings to mind another fatal scenario - the widely known tagline of the Roach Motel - "Roaches check in, but they don't check out!"…
let’s morph it to a tagline for The Way International – “suckers check in, but they don’t check out”.
Edited by T-Boneeditor has become the Typos-keeper
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Rocky
I'm not sure that's an effective or honorable way to label those we'd like to help find their way out of the cult.
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T-Bone
I beg to differ.
What is the purpose of a tagline?
From: FEEDOUGH – The Entrepreneurs’ Guide
The basic aims of a slogan or tagline are summarized below:
1. ) Creates positive imagery about your product
2.) Promotes a campaign for not only a single product but a range of products
3.) Compels the audience to ‘stop-and-think’
4.) Makes your brand stand out from the clutter
5.) Increases demand for your product
= = = = = =
…but anyway – here’s the above summary in an expanded literal translation according to T-Bone’s usage (note this involves pros and cons – and maybe secrets the Pros use to pull off their cons 
):
Now I will elaborate on why I think it was an effective or cognitive-skills-honoring notice I said “I think” – so I could be wrong
1.) Creates negative imagery about The Way International’s products and service – might even be enough to make some TWI-followers wake up and see the Kool-Aid brewing.
2.) Promotes a campaign for not only a single product but a range of products to keep people involved for a lifetime – this might get some TWI-followers to realize the captivating and entangling aspects of a harmful and controlling cult.
3.) Compels the audience to ‘stop-and-think’ – which is always a good thing to do. Unfortunately most people who got involved with TWI did not do that; now realistically TWI would never use such a tagline – but in my goofy world of cult-humor imagine if they did – then it would be along the lines of truth in advertising.
It’s been my experience as well as that of many others – after a length of time and experiences – and it’s different for everyone – there comes a tipping point – you’ve disregarded enough red flags, cognitive dissonances…shrugged off enough bad experiences that you stop and think…that’s taking the first step…I realize it's a bitter pill to swallow - but in order to escape - one has to first realize they've been a "sucker" - that they've been conned... for others, who came to a Twig only a few times or maybe just took PFAL – there was enough clues, evidence of a scam …inconsistencies / incoherent logic and doctrine…or just a bad feeling (intuition) to make them think and reevaluate TWI and so they stop going to Twig.
4.) Makes your brand stand out from the clutter of other harmful and controlling cults. To bastardize another tagline - "an uniformed consumer is our best customer"
5.) Increases demand for your product – for those who can’t get enough of a bad thing…like maybe they have a death wish for their authentic-self.
sorry for my feeble attempt at humor…a joke isn’t funny if it needs to be explained…which brings me to my own tagline “no joke is too sucky for me to tell.”
unfortunately I’m here all week , Rocky
Edited by T-Bonerevision is the editor's tagline
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Rocky
I'm not averse to the concept of a pithy slogan. I don't believe that slogan is at all beneficial to the cause.
Edited by RockyIOW, calling people who are considering leaving the cult "suckers" is likely to backfire.
People don't make major life decisions based on any kind of logic. They ONLY do so based on emotion.
Perhaps you would want to review your copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People (Dale Carnegie). A couple of his keys are salient here.
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T-Bone
Rocky - that’s the second time you got on me about that…
…and I think you’re right !
Thank you
I do tend to be caustic
Maybe there was some synchronicity going on in between your first and second “reproof” post. …
After I read your first post I happened to review some old threads - one was on civility in posting by Waysider…and yes I will review Carnegie’s book - How to Win Friends / Influence - good idea!
I will have to take issue with you on your other point though - “People don't make major life decisions based on any kind of logic. They ONLY do so based on emotion”. - I don’t think that is uniformly true of all people.
Reflecting on one of the most heartrending major life decisions I had to make - to leave TWI in 1986…internally it was a perfect storm of logic…observations…a growing sense of disillusionment with an organization that failed to produce or live up to its claims and promises…and the tension of all that against my emotional attachment to the people and something I heavily invested in…
it was not an easy decision and if I would have let some emotions (like fear of losing friends, fear of abandoning “God’s ministry “ and even positive emotions like the love and admiration I had for certain leaders ) take priority over the preponderance of evidence, logic, the re-evaluating of certain TWI doctrine that I had already started to do since that fateful night in Rome City chapel where I heard the passing of the patriarch - it was indeed a long and drawn out decision making process - just like my writing style
…it was a tough internal battle - but for me anyway - I would have to say the logical arguments, correlations with what the Scriptures said about power-grabs, factions, allegiance to the Lord Jesus rather than to earthly leaders trying to lord it over me, and even certain feelings - intuition - something I could not pin down but my gut was telling me there was something wrong…something really really wrong with this organization… my point is all that went counter to some of my emotions urging me to stay and help the organization get back on its feet.
To end my post on a positive - friendly note to you Rocky - and to make amends for hurting our cause - I agree with you totally…being caustic, sarcastic and combative is no way to win friends and influence people. Emotions do play a part in the decision making process - no sense in generating more unpleasant emotions then what’s already brewing inside a troubled soul.
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Rocky
You're probably right on that. I was probably off by saying it was ONLY.
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Rocky
To your point, on which I agree with you:
The speaker (Tali Sharot) in this vid poses that "Most of us think information is the best way to convince people of our truth. And, in fact, it doesn't work that well..." Skip to the end and she says (at 5:20) "The lesson here is that we need to find the common motives.
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Rocky
Two and a half minutes...
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T-Bone
Thanks for the videos, Rocky – stuff like that is always fascinating.
I think we’re getting off topic – so I’ll make it brief…
Sharot mentioned two things that I think are essential to a change of mind: motives and common ground…thought about this and how it relates to Grease Spot discussions.
Motive - I think this is a key variable – motive is the reason I’m involved in a particular discussion. Is it to expand my horizon? Am I trying to find some answers? Do I just want to argue? Am I trying to expose a logical fallacy? A motive is what causes a person to act. If my motive is to gain a new perspective or to find some answers, I’m probably more likely to change my mind on something.
Common ground – something you or I propose is more likely to be accepted by another if we can tie it to a shared value, common interest…I believe this goes hand in hand with motive. In a discussion – if everyone’s motive is in sync – for example – in a discussion everyone is into exploring all aspects of TWI-gatekeepers. At its best the Socratic method - as a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals that is the common ground - based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presuppositions.
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skyrider
Chockfull.....I absolutely agree with your last point. The most GENUINE acts that I experienced during my twi-tenure were outside the pfal and corps framework and patterns of twi's multi-level-marketing of pawning off hocking classes and material.
Rarily, do I ever talk about the many "God-moments" that I experienced before, during or after twi.... but those high points in life sustained my Christian faith. With humility of heart, trusting in the Lord with all my heart and knowing that He will direct my heart....THAT was true Christianity. Putting Jesus Christ as savior, lord and mediator FRONT AND CENTER......in daily practice and doctrine far surpassed twi's false teachings and counseling.
IMO.....that's why many of us stayed too long in twi. We attributed "the good" to twi.....when, in actuality, it was the Lord's workings of long-suffering, grace and mercy. Peace.
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