44 languages, the official language is French. 28% Roman Catholic, 9% Protestant, 5% unaffiliated/other Christians. (20% Sunni Muslims, 5% no affiliations.) However, besides the 38% traditional animists, many of the "official" Muslims, Catholics, Protestant continue to perform indigenous practices/animism. With a total population of about 8 million, I think having all of that is quite an accomplishment.
Once upon a time, vpw supposedly made a huge deal and said mission work to countries with results like that were a SHAM- he referred to the "converts" as "RICE CHRISTIANS" and said they were only Christians in name, and only for the food.
As for "the Congo", was that "the Republic of the Congo", or is twi supposedly back in "the Democratic Republic of the Congo?" BTW, Mrs Wolf is fond of saying that if you have to put "Democratic Republic" in your country's name, it is neither a democracy nor a republic. (As a dual citizen of a republic and a democracy, she should know.)
they claim to have active way corps in both congos. Much of africa is the Christian wild west, with lots of cults, heresies and extremity in churches. Lots of converts in deep need of discipling. (I taught there for two months several years ago). it wouldn't surprise me if twi has more people in west africa than the usa and is patting themselves on the back for things they had almost nothing to do with. women hardly ever teach at sunday services at the root.
So, as far as Africa is concerned, they have some numbers- as does everyone else. They can't use Africa as a financial profit center- they will take a financial loss the bigger they get there. The locals are probably of the "sprang up fast in shallow ground" category, and will just go to the cult down the block as soon as twi falters, wherever the rice is being served. In the US, numbers are in the HUNDREDS, NOT the thousands, so lots of advertising about either big numbers in a Congo, or how numbers don't matter. Right after 4/5 of twi left, lcm pushed how numbers didn't matter with God, so I expect more of the same now.
there's a video of a corps introducing the ambassador program in the auditorium. The audience responds to something he says, but it sounds like a group of people in a living room rather than a crowd in an auditorium.
there's a video of a corps introducing the ambassador program in the auditorium. The audience responds to something he says, but it sounds like a group of people in a living room rather than a crowd in an auditorium.
They havent been able to fill the auditorium in a very long time. When there is a big event (anniversary, pentecost, etc.) they plan well in advance for out of state people to attend and even goto the extent of busing people in if enough people want to make the trek. When I was on staff they really had trouble filling more than the forst three rows and many of them were staffers happen to not be working for the STS. They have ran off so many people over the years that they are really hurting for attendance. Not to mention the most recent (2016?) purge of the way corps's ranks. They are so hard up for leadership that they are calling people who were dropped from the corps and inviting them back...not sure how many suckers they have found just yet. So this is my verbose way of saying that you are very likely correct in saying that the crowd is about the size of a packed liviing room.
Wow the Way has quite a presence in the Christian cultural appropriation movement going on in Africa. I wonder if the Way ever got around to designing a better international design than VP criticized in his paper on foreign Christian missions which was said publicly to be the reason for his pending disciplinary action by the Evangelical and Reformed denomination and leaving starting his own deal. The private reason was an affair with his secretary.
Actually now that I think about it the reform paper on missions is probably why all way int money stays in the countries. Which is quite a score for international megalomaniacs. Those leaders have their own cults within the cults and are living larger than their USA counterparts
there's a video of a corps introducing the ambassador program in the auditorium. The audience responds to something he says, but it sounds like a group of people in a living room rather than a crowd in an auditorium.
But Way Productions is really humming along superbly! First rate entertainement (soooo painful to watch them onstage) with the women's midwestern hair salon hairdo's.....50 years with the same hairdos!! You can't add more starch to their acts. Gawd....
Currently the way subscriptions to their music on YouTube is 4.7k. I don’t see anyone other than followers subscribing to that particular brand of vanilla High Country type productions with women in demure costume and men with the clean look.
so each director represents influence over a thousand.
They havent been able to fill the auditorium in a very long time. When there is a big event (anniversary, pentecost, etc.) they plan well in advance for out of state people to attend and even goto the extent of busing people in if enough people want to make the trek. When I was on staff they really had trouble filling more than the forst three rows and many of them were staffers happen to not be working for the STS. They have ran off so many people over the years that they are really hurting for attendance. Not to mention the most recent (2016?) purge of the way corps's ranks. They are so hard up for leadership that they are calling people who were dropped from the corps and inviting them back...not sure how many suckers they have found just yet. So this is my verbose way of saying that you are very likely correct in saying that the crowd is about the size of a packed liviing room.
Another purge? OldSkool, what was it this time? This feels like Groundhog Day. Or the religious version of The Death of Stalin.
Another purge? OldSkool, what was it this time? This feels like Groundhog Day. Or the religious version of The Death of Stalin.
Well, there was a mass another mass exodus around 2016 - Lookup Revival and Restoration on the forums here if you aren't familiar with what happened. I left in 2008, and even back then their attendance numbers were dismal across the board. Rosalie bored everyone to death with her tight control of the STS/way mag, assigned (irrelevant) topics, and sript reading based presentations. There was a lot of quiet dissent when I was there. Many of the (then) younger generation had the attitude that Rosalie would die off eventually and the younger generation would correct it all. Ha!! So really, since wierwill passed, TWI has done everything it could to push most people out of TWI. So, I would lean towards the religious version of the death of stalin in this case. Judging from their current STS presentations they are still script reading with a new set and the teacher actually walks away from the lectern on occasion.
As for Revival and Restoration - What took them so long?
Well, the dissent had been building for years. Most of the way corps who left would not have had the guts to bail on their own. I did that in 2008 and was happy with obscurity! Most way corps still crave a lectern and some people to admire them and that they can boss around. The exodus actually started with an advanced class grad who mailed an anon. letter to Rosie the RIveter enumerating many typical grievances. Same ole same ole: STS sucks, way mag sucks, everyone is micromanaged, etc. However, Rosie's goofy a$$ thought the letter came from one of her very loyal cabinet men that I won't name. She put him through holy heck for no reason at all. Raked this man over the coals really bad. Other letters followed from a group of way corps and I guess the damn of dissent broke from there. So as time went Rosie, Rupp, and the gang started calling in corps who had signed the subsequent letter(s) of dissent, of course seperated married couples from one another, and interrogated them. They marked and avoided a bunch of corps during this time, which again, was extremely stupid for them since they don't have that many corps to go around any more. A lot of your average followers of course followed their favorite way corps over to revival and restoration. I went to a couple fellowships over in Indy at the urging of a former friend. They were typical twig fellowship formats from the days of old with more room for people to express themselves and such, but same doctrinal package that wierwille pieced together. Same errors, etc. I never went back and that was at least four years ago.
As to what took them so long? Most didn't have the guts to push the envelope on their own but when others started doing it the whole gang jumped in when they felt safe that they could remain relevant to somebody. That's my opinion, but Im pretty sure it's fact based on a broad scale.
Most of the way corps who left would not have had the guts to bail on their own.
1 hour ago, OldSkool said:
As to what took them so long? Most didn't have the guts to push the envelope on their own but when others started doing it the whole gang jumped in when they felt safethat they could remain relevant to somebody.
While you may be right on the mark in your assessment, I'm not sure the qualifiers are necessary. Accurate truth isn't nearly as relevant as the fact that belongingis a fundamental human need. I'm not suggesting you are inherently wrong, as factors relating to position in a group to which they belong are certainly relevant to varying degrees, but the bottom line regardless is belonging to a tribe.
The people who formed "Revival and Restoration" sent a letter to twi's board, and claimed they were interested in healing up and fixing twi from within. Before they sent the letter, they had already registered the "Revival and Restoration" website. In short, the more cautious observer would wonder how sincere they were about actually trying to fix twi, when they'd already started setting up the new group BEFORE approaching the board. I mean, I would have already made plans to leave, but I would NOT have been sincerely trying to fix twi since it was obviously broken fundamentally. So, I would not have come across as sounding like I was trying to fix them.
Reminds me of an old joke. (The names can vary, but the joke is the same.)
Vladimir Putin woke up one morning after a late party. He found his residence completely devoid of people. He looked out the window, and didn't see people standing, walking, or driving. His telephone rang. It was an advisor of his. "Don't you remember? You got drunk and said that anyone who didn't like living in Russia should just get out. So, they did." "Are you saying that it's only you and me in the entire country?" "No, just you-I'm calling from Poland."
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Rocky
Shazzam! I'm impressed.
Not!
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Rocky
Those posts seem to not have anyone's names. It all reads like propaganda, as far as I can tell.
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WordWolf
Togo? *looks up Togo*
44 languages, the official language is French. 28% Roman Catholic, 9% Protestant, 5% unaffiliated/other Christians. (20% Sunni Muslims, 5% no affiliations.) However, besides the 38% traditional animists, many of the "official" Muslims, Catholics, Protestant continue to perform indigenous practices/animism. With a total population of about 8 million, I think having all of that is quite an accomplishment.
Once upon a time, vpw supposedly made a huge deal and said mission work to countries with results like that were a SHAM- he referred to the "converts" as "RICE CHRISTIANS" and said they were only Christians in name, and only for the food.
As for "the Congo", was that "the Republic of the Congo", or is twi supposedly back in "the Democratic Republic of the Congo?" BTW, Mrs Wolf is fond of saying that if you have to put "Democratic Republic" in your country's name, it is neither a democracy nor a republic. (As a dual citizen of a republic and a democracy, she should know.)
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johnj
they claim to have active way corps in both congos. Much of africa is the Christian wild west, with lots of cults, heresies and extremity in churches. Lots of converts in deep need of discipling. (I taught there for two months several years ago). it wouldn't surprise me if twi has more people in west africa than the usa and is patting themselves on the back for things they had almost nothing to do with. women hardly ever teach at sunday services at the root.
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WordWolf
So, as far as Africa is concerned, they have some numbers- as does everyone else. They can't use Africa as a financial profit center- they will take a financial loss the bigger they get there. The locals are probably of the "sprang up fast in shallow ground" category, and will just go to the cult down the block as soon as twi falters, wherever the rice is being served. In the US, numbers are in the HUNDREDS, NOT the thousands, so lots of advertising about either big numbers in a Congo, or how numbers don't matter. Right after 4/5 of twi left, lcm pushed how numbers didn't matter with God, so I expect more of the same now.
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johnj
there's a video of a corps introducing the ambassador program in the auditorium. The audience responds to something he says, but it sounds like a group of people in a living room rather than a crowd in an auditorium.
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OldSkool
They havent been able to fill the auditorium in a very long time. When there is a big event (anniversary, pentecost, etc.) they plan well in advance for out of state people to attend and even goto the extent of busing people in if enough people want to make the trek. When I was on staff they really had trouble filling more than the forst three rows and many of them were staffers happen to not be working for the STS. They have ran off so many people over the years that they are really hurting for attendance. Not to mention the most recent (2016?) purge of the way corps's ranks. They are so hard up for leadership that they are calling people who were dropped from the corps and inviting them back...not sure how many suckers they have found just yet. So this is my verbose way of saying that you are very likely correct in saying that the crowd is about the size of a packed liviing room.
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chockfull
Wow the Way has quite a presence in the Christian cultural appropriation movement going on in Africa. I wonder if the Way ever got around to designing a better international design than VP criticized in his paper on foreign Christian missions which was said publicly to be the reason for his pending disciplinary action by the Evangelical and Reformed denomination and leaving starting his own deal. The private reason was an affair with his secretary.
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chockfull
Actually now that I think about it the reform paper on missions is probably why all way int money stays in the countries. Which is quite a score for international megalomaniacs. Those leaders have their own cults within the cults and are living larger than their USA counterparts
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chockfull
But but but but it's a worldwide ministry......
Lol
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engine
But Way Productions is really humming along superbly! First rate entertainement (soooo painful to watch them onstage) with the women's midwestern hair salon hairdo's.....50 years with the same hairdos!! You can't add more starch to their acts. Gawd....
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Twinky
How big is TWI now? How many attend?
Too big. Even if there were only the four directors - too big.
Go find somewhere real, people. Leave this sham organisation.
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T-Bone
great answer, Twinky !!!!!
Edited by T-BoneHow much do you edit? Too much
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chockfull
I agree Twinky.
Currently the way subscriptions to their music on YouTube is 4.7k. I don’t see anyone other than followers subscribing to that particular brand of vanilla High Country type productions with women in demure costume and men with the clean look.
so each director represents influence over a thousand.
too many.
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Twinky
4.7K???? Maybe some of those are bots or some such.
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waysider
Maybe some of those subscribers are just curious onlookers. You know, like rubberneckers at a bad freeway wreck.
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chockfull
Yes probably. At an rate why do I care how many followers the Way has? I don’t hopefully God has a warning sign for them.
I think those numbers would not be even in the top 1000 churches in the USA little less worldwide which they claim to be.
Carry on tiny dancers.
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JustThinking
Another purge? OldSkool, what was it this time? This feels like Groundhog Day. Or the religious version of The Death of Stalin.
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OldSkool
Well, there was a mass another mass exodus around 2016 - Lookup Revival and Restoration on the forums here if you aren't familiar with what happened. I left in 2008, and even back then their attendance numbers were dismal across the board. Rosalie bored everyone to death with her tight control of the STS/way mag, assigned (irrelevant) topics, and sript reading based presentations. There was a lot of quiet dissent when I was there. Many of the (then) younger generation had the attitude that Rosalie would die off eventually and the younger generation would correct it all. Ha!! So really, since wierwill passed, TWI has done everything it could to push most people out of TWI. So, I would lean towards the religious version of the death of stalin in this case. Judging from their current STS presentations they are still script reading with a new set and the teacher actually walks away from the lectern on occasion.
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outandabout
As for Revival and Restoration - What took them so long?
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OldSkool
Well, the dissent had been building for years. Most of the way corps who left would not have had the guts to bail on their own. I did that in 2008 and was happy with obscurity! Most way corps still crave a lectern and some people to admire them and that they can boss around. The exodus actually started with an advanced class grad who mailed an anon. letter to Rosie the RIveter enumerating many typical grievances. Same ole same ole: STS sucks, way mag sucks, everyone is micromanaged, etc. However, Rosie's goofy a$$ thought the letter came from one of her very loyal cabinet men that I won't name. She put him through holy heck for no reason at all. Raked this man over the coals really bad. Other letters followed from a group of way corps and I guess the damn of dissent broke from there. So as time went Rosie, Rupp, and the gang started calling in corps who had signed the subsequent letter(s) of dissent, of course seperated married couples from one another, and interrogated them. They marked and avoided a bunch of corps during this time, which again, was extremely stupid for them since they don't have that many corps to go around any more. A lot of your average followers of course followed their favorite way corps over to revival and restoration. I went to a couple fellowships over in Indy at the urging of a former friend. They were typical twig fellowship formats from the days of old with more room for people to express themselves and such, but same doctrinal package that wierwille pieced together. Same errors, etc. I never went back and that was at least four years ago.
As to what took them so long? Most didn't have the guts to push the envelope on their own but when others started doing it the whole gang jumped in when they felt safe that they could remain relevant to somebody. That's my opinion, but Im pretty sure it's fact based on a broad scale.
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Rocky
While you may be right on the mark in your assessment, I'm not sure the qualifiers are necessary. Accurate truth isn't nearly as relevant as the fact that belonging is a fundamental human need. I'm not suggesting you are inherently wrong, as factors relating to position in a group to which they belong are certainly relevant to varying degrees, but the bottom line regardless is belonging to a tribe.
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WordWolf
One little factlet you left out.....
The people who formed "Revival and Restoration" sent a letter to twi's board, and claimed they were interested in healing up and fixing twi from within. Before they sent the letter, they had already registered the "Revival and Restoration" website. In short, the more cautious observer would wonder how sincere they were about actually trying to fix twi, when they'd already started setting up the new group BEFORE approaching the board. I mean, I would have already made plans to leave, but I would NOT have been sincerely trying to fix twi since it was obviously broken fundamentally. So, I would not have come across as sounding like I was trying to fix them.
Reminds me of an old joke. (The names can vary, but the joke is the same.)
Vladimir Putin woke up one morning after a late party. He found his residence completely devoid of people. He looked out the window, and didn't see people standing, walking, or driving. His telephone rang. It was an advisor of his. "Don't you remember? You got drunk and said that anyone who didn't like living in Russia should just get out. So, they did." "Are you saying that it's only you and me in the entire country?" "No, just you-I'm calling from Poland."
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Twinky
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