Do not mistake people's recounting of what happened to them, as bitterness.
I suppose we could ask you what your definition is (in this context) of "bitterness." But that would simply invite you to drag the topic even more off topic and away from a serious look at TWI.
Thanks T-Bone for repeating my challenges
in my response to Twinky,
AND for showing everyone reading with a brain
that you have NO IDEA how to address
the points I made.
Mike, you didn't "make" any "points." You made a few CLAIMS. Anyone can make any CLAIM. It doesn't become a point until it's actually SUPPORTED BY SOMETHING. Especially ridiculous-sounding complaints should be supported by something substantial, otherwise they just sound like nonsense- and probably are.
I've supported silly claims in the Harry Potter fandom better than you support your claims here- and I was doing so in jest.
If you honestly think that "You think that a Christian has to be someone real special or something if they want to do significant work with and for God" applies to ANYONE here- let alone "many others here" as you said, you're really not experiencing the same posts and threads everyone else is- which is old news, really. You keep objecting to things that nobody ever posted.
"Why should I waste my time on detailed, exhaustive debate with people who are unthankful for being taught that God is good?"
You're fond of claiming you can get into discussions and address points, but have always had extensive excuses as to why you never delivered.
BTW, it's hard to get people to agree that you have no problem with discussion and debate when they know that you've freely acknowledged that you choose to "dodge, distract, but never admit an error is an error" - and only doubled-down on that and claimed it's what you're supposed to do.
As for people being "unthankful for being taught that God is good", there's probably a messageboard where people object to that, but this was never that board.
"AND for showing everyone reading with a brain
that you have NO IDEA how to address
the points I made. "
Mike,
you of all posters really are ill-equipped to claim to speak for "everyone reading with a brain." pfal said right in pfal that it consists of KEYS, and it does NOT contain "Genesis to Revelation," but you claimed that it's Scripture now, and has REPLACED Genesis to Revelation rather than being keys to understanding them. Where pfal outlined HOW to "get back to the original so we can say 'thus saith the LORD'", you've claimed that doing so is impossible- while claiming that pfal was inerrant. So, trying to get converts from people who know your reading comprehension is seriously compromised by your doctrine is foredoomed to failure. Naturally, that doesn't matter much, because periodically you go away, announce in your own mind that you successfully refuted everything we had to say and that we were unable to refute you, and that your system is still unassailable. That may give you comfort (it wouldn't give me comfort), but it doesn't change how completely you've been refuted year after year, only to return and claim that never happened. Since the old threads are still here, "everyone reading with a brain" can go read through them themselves and see what happened.
In addition to various defense mechanisms, some people don't experience time constancy. Intermittent pieces of experience are simply not registered. There are then gaps in the sequence of events in memory. The mind must then confabulate, or make up events to maintain a consistent internal dialogue for the sake of sanity . . . At least for that individual.
Remember William Huang, the guy who is noted for his American Idol audition that featured him covering Ricky Martin's "She Bangs"? He was seemingly oblivious to his own lack of talent. Was it all a spoof or did he succumb to the Dunning-Kruger Effect?
Thanks T-Bone for repeating my challenges
in my response to Twinky,
AND for showing everyone reading with a brain
that you have NO IDEA how to address
the points I made.
Remember William Huang, the guy who is noted for his American Idol audition that featured him covering Ricky Martin's "She Bangs"? He was seemingly oblivious to his own lack of talent. Was it all a spoof or did he succumb to the Dunning-Kruger Effect?
I'm just sayin'.
*quotes James 1:22-25 . . . worry doubt and fear from some class . . . and the gingerbread man*
You folks seem to be crawling the walls for something to talk about. You got a dead topic, but can't move on, it seems.
If any of you are better qualified to bless God's people then DO IT!
We are. By telling the truth.
But by all means continue to derail that truth by calling me desperate and stupid. And turning the attention of all that could be delivered by reading this thread onto you and your dumbass antics.
And to all those reading who really really like nostalgia to the point they would trade anything in their life for that good old feeling, you can probably get old PFAL books on eBay, read them over and over and beg HQ to take you back unsuccessfully.
you, know, like mike is doing, our fearless self appointed leader.
I’m hoping they are ready to learn some things, and that I learn what they are thinking and what their needs are, instead of guessing.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Johnj “which limb? how small? how long ago?”
California, Pentecost 2018, 60 people. But I had THIS YEAR had dinner with one long standing CA leader and lots of e-mail with him, and then some small e-mailing with a staff member I had an inside tip would be receptive to an e-mail from a stranger like me.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Bolshevik “A key to narcissistic abuse recovery is going no contact. Going no contact means no contact, Mike.”
I wasn’t abuse, and I approach them to minister to them, just like I minister to you here. Minister means serve. I am trying to help, because I was helped.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Hi Twinky. How’s it going? I’ve been enjoying the Book of Romans. Do I remember right, that you are a lawyer. How do you feel about the legal aspect of Romans.
So,
he advertised with them there just like he advertises with us here- since he hasn't been kicked out of either. His sole audience HAS TO consist of twi and ex-twi because nobody else will buy into "vpw was akin to Superman, had a special connection to God, and God Almighty told him to plagiarize a bunch of other Christian writers, for which we should be thankful. The results have replaced the Bible."
Not that he's getting much successful results, but even dismal returns are better than stony silence and/or laughter, so he sticks to the twi/ex-twi crowds.
Even fools are thought wise if they keep silent, and discerning if they hold their tongues. Proverbs 17:28
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
— ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
Being a self-described verbose person with aspirations of comedic surrealism and hopes of someday receiving the gift ministry of a class clown - I obviously have an affinity for those proverbs.
But on a less silly note, I often wonder what is the ACTUAL REASON when someone exhibits such a rigid mindset as to firmly embrace what is wrong - even defying reason and what is morally upright.
I believe that secret may only reside in a higher power. Since that does not satisfy my desire to know, the default reason I tend to gravitate toward is one of the most powerful motivators - love. Love will make…or enable you to do some amazing…even death-defying acts…or compassionate acts…but on the flip side of love - if it has a dark underbelly - there are those “amazing” logic-defying callous acts that are driven by a strong attraction or attachment to a perverse ideology.
I often wonder what is the ACTUAL REASON when someone exhibits such a rigid mindset as to firmly embrace what is wrong - even defying reason and what is morally upright
It diminishes their sense of self-worth to consider they might be wrong.
Revisiting an idea idea I had expressed earlier on this thread , I thought I’d elaborate on my own struggles to overcome the mental baggage of a lingering TWI-mindset…also known as
how to break free from a rigid mindset when you realize you are wrong.
There was resentment- not only the bitter indignation at having been treated unfairly by TWI-leadership and fellow-way corps when I resigned in 1986 - but at times even being irritated (though unjustly) at work associates who either did not know or did not understand what it’s like to survive a harmful and controlling cult. However - just so you know there were some coworkers I became good friends with - and I did talk with them about my involvement with a harmful and controlling cult. And I also would like to add that once I started posting on Grease Spot I found it got easier and easier to relate my experience to these good friends - something about speaking my mind here helped me to articulate my story to non-TWI folks and overcome the stigma of a former cult-follower. Thanks Paw and all Grease Spotters !!!!
There was this time - several years AFTER I had left TWI. There was a quartermaster over our company’s security equipment inventory. He was a Christian and let everyone know about it. It was common knowledge this married man was a womanizer and a cheat.
You could usually find him down at the commissary in this big office building during a lunch break eyeballing and making lewd remarks about the women that walked by. Sometimes he’d take extremely long lunch breaks to go home and mow his yard -at least that’s what he told us he did - while all of us techs were WAITING OUTSIDE the quartermaster’s dungeon to get parts for our next install or service call.
I’ve witnessed several times when the company’s chief operating officer would get on him after receiving complaints from women who worked in other offices or after us techs would explain why we were late to an install or service call.
The quartermaster knew I was a Christian and so I guess he figured he’d have a sympathetic audience to vent his feelings of embarrassment and frustration after a visit from the COO. He’d go on about how he is praying for God’s justice to fall on the COO…what the fvck ?!?!?!
Side note here: On Grease Spot I may appear to be a person that’s not afraid to be confrontational - but in person - especially back at that time - I would just keep my opinions to myself. So I just held my peace and would not react to his temper tantrums.
A few years later I was promoted to installation and service coordinator. If you know me you’d know I have a strong desire to be knowledgeable, a commitment to technical standards, and love to be organized to within an inch of perfection. Now I was given the opportunity of training techs and to master the logistics of installs and service calls. I had a huge calendar for a desk pad, a computer terminal (we’re gonna party like it’s 1990) so I could access the customer data base and see type of system they had and their Mapsco # - and of course I had several Mapsco Maps for all the areas we covered.
Sometimes due to a heavy workload I felt it was necessary to call a new customer and see if there was some flexibility on the salesperson’s promised arrival time of the tech. Usually most were flexible. There were some who weren’t. And wouldn’t you know it, over-scheduled techs driving in a metroplex’s heavy traffic would be late - sometimes the new customer would call…complain…reschedule…or cancel…then the salespersons would complain to the COO about me screwing things up. One day the COO yells at me in front of everyone “you’ve got to stop pi$$ing people off” (his exact words) - the people I pi$$ed off were some of the sales reps that didn’t make a sales commission from a cancelled new install.
Inside I was fuming mad. How dare he blame me for the over-scheduling frenzy of some aggressive sales reps! I was eaten up with anger and resentment for days. I kept thinking of the quartermaster’s vengeful attitude after the COO’s confronting him. My situation was different - I felt I knew what I was doing and did the best I could in an over-scheduling nightmare - but I also knew it didn’t warrant wishing ill on my boss. And I could not think of anything helpful from what I was taught about prayer in TWI.
Anyway…about a week later our family went on a much-needed getaway to Lake Murray. Relaxing with just the family is always a good thing (never took vacations when I was in TWI…going to the Rock and corps week don’t count) and sometimes whenever I settle down and want real inspiration and more specific directions than the pseudo-intellectualism and superfluous pontificating abstractions of TWI-dogma - I usually read the Gospels.
doing that on this getaway - I came across 3 chapters which mark a watershed moment in surviving…recovering from a harmful and controlling cult’s mindset. They’re Matthew 5, 6 and 7 and in all Jesus talks about how I will truly start understanding and appreciating God’s forgiveness to me when I forgive other sinners…debtors…trespassers (depending on the translation ) and to live out a MATURE SINCERE love - to folks who are pleasant or difficult…which is a reflection of our Father who "makes the sun rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."
And once I remove the log in my own eye so I can see clearly to remove the speck in my brother’s eye.
This went counter to what wierwille taught me on that “mindless prayer “ (that’s code for you-know-what…I’ll just let that sit for a moment) that leaves the understanding “unfruitful “ and is impotent to produce a God-pleasing transformation in the life of the one praying.
I think a good healthy Christian attitude is a genuine desire to please God - and not inflate your ego over all the great things you supposedly did to “move The Word” . ..And it also went counter to the blame-shifting, ignoring, avoiding and the ever-popular-role-reversal-switcheroo tactic that TWI-leadership would use when anyone dared to confront THEIR inappropriate behavior - this classic Harry-Potter-ish spell is invoked by them saying the following “the love of god thinketh no evil.” And to give the incantation an authentic wizardry flavor to the charming King’s English charm it should be followed immediately with something that ends with a Latin twist - for example “Lo Shonta Mecca Lekka High etcetera etcetera etcetera.” ...and hocus pocus now YOU'RE in the wrong for confronting them !
Yo, check it out Grease Spotters - and any TWI-followers trying to relive the glory days. In Matthew 5 Jesus said:
“But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you…”
Jesus goes on to say
“…that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust…”
Alright now hold on…leave you finger in the dike just a little longer - you just might prevent a overwhelming deluge of TWI-isms flowing through your consciousness- at least for a few minutes …as you think about Matthew 6: 9 - 13 NLT. Where we find the Lord’s Prayer …ah yes I still sort of remember wierwille in PFAL telling me why I shouldn’t pray that prayer …but it really doesn’t matter what wierwille said anyway. What’s important is what Jesus Christ said - he is The Logos - The Word…”and remember, class The Word means what it says and says what it means…dats riiiiiiight “ …anyway…here ‘tis :
Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.
Give us today the food we need,
and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
And don’t let us yield to temptation,
but rescue us from the evil one.
So I started slowly doing a serious makeover of my prayer-life…for those in TWI that means prayer in my understanding…Even before this “epiphany “ I had quit doing that mindless-prayer-thing having realized I faked it in session 12…but self-reflection and honesty can be a good thing - yes I had stopped spinning my wheels but now I could make the rubber meet the road and experience the transforming…character shaping power of mindful prayer…I did NOT pray for God’s justice to fall on my boss - instead I prayed for the health and well-being of him and his family. I was thankful for his honesty, integrity and expertise in management and would pray for any personal or professional concerns that he might mention to me.
The relationship with my boss continued to improve…and a few years later our company was sold and the COO, myself and a few other techs accepted a lateral transfer that was offered by the parent company. The former COO was AGAIN my boss as manager over our tech staff.
My boss once gave me a pretty cool compliment in front of all the techs when he was trying to deflate the egos of some new hot-dog techs and stressed being a team-player instead of going for super-stardom… he pointed to me and said “ take a tip from that guy. Yeah he knows his stuff and could probably out-tech most of us here but what’s really great about him is that he can work well with others.” ...redeemed how I love to proclaim it, redeemed by the words of my boss ...just kidding "I often say this stuff to keep my young people awake."
Hello !
Is anyone still reading this post?
Good for you…I wish I could give you a special award. You deserve it
If you fell asleep during the intermission (wait - there was an intermission?) don’t fret - I forgive you… i can relate …I slept through most of my way corps training...here's my yearbook picture from the way corps >
here's a bunch of us at a night owl >
no wait…that was at corps night…
...oh here's a picture of the one guy who dropped out of our corps >
for obvious reasons...if memory serves...he was the guy always complaining about headaches and bruises on his forehead...if you ask me, I think it was his believing...or rather his lack of believing the bull$hit.
…but anyway - here we are at the moral of this gosh-awful-long-post…or rather just a few points I want to make pertinent to this thread and its twists and turns…don’t touch that dial!
I do NOT think of anyone in TWI, offshoots, or on Grease Spot as my enemy. I often have MINDFUL prayer for all those I’ve just mentioned. When I pray for them I do NOT wish for ill will on anyone - nor do I pray for anyone to see things my way - as if I’m always right on everything - after all we’re all bozos on this planet…or any other planet we plan on colonizing…and now my points:
1. What DO I pray for?
Good question.
In light of Jesus’ directives in Matthew 5 & 6:
I pray the person is having chances to self-reflect and the strength to be honest. I don’t ever expect to see evidence of that - I mean…that would be nice but it’s more important their reflection inspires a God-pleasing change (whatever that might be) than me getting a chance to say “see, I told you so!” After all I might not have the right idea on what they should be doing anyway…but God does. I don’t always do this - but I try to remember to pray in the sentiment of redemption and reconciliation of Romans 12:17 - 21:
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay, "says the Lord.
20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
2. Forgiveness:
- Yes that’s a toughie. Not always easy and not something I always do. But I probably practice forgiveness a lot more than you may think I do. You’re probably thinking “yeah, right - as much as you rag on wierwille, and big-wierwille / PFAL-fans.” This is probably too cerebral for some folks to understand but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with speaking angrily about manipulative, deceptive, controlling, exploitative tactics. The Bible DOES say speak the truth in love.
And as I mentioned in point 1, the goal is reconciliation. According to Jesus in Matthew 5 - reconciliation even has a higher priority than WORSHIP:
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
3. the redemptive / reconciliation dynamic:
One thing that is frustrating about wierwille passing away - is that he lost a chance to come clean…to right his wrongs…not that he didn’t repent before God on his deathbed - but he lost his chance to reconcile with those he offended and hurt. That would also give those he’s hurt an opportunity to forgive - and then both parties could be released from bondage.
forgiveness is the decision to write off and set someone FREE from the debt they owe you - an apology, affirmation, time, a relationship, money, etc.
As the forgiving person you are released from the captivity of bitterness…resentment…holding a grudge.
And just so you know, it’s possible to pick up the pieces and move on even if the perpetrator has died and the offense is left unresolved. People have been doing that since the beginning of us humans being on this little planet…it’s the way of life…you make mistakes…people hurt you…you hurt others…sometimes things go unsettled or remain in perpetual limbo…we do what we can to manage anyway…we learn how to live with the scar tissue…anyway...
Check out what Jesus said in Matthew 7: 1 - 6 and 12:
Judge not, that you be not judged.
2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?
5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Now SOME of you reading this - don’t get up in arms and try to pull the the ever-popular-role-reversal-switcheroo tactic on me…or any other defense mechanism of hypocrites garnered from the deep “research and teaching” of....
the adventures of super-DUPER-wierwille.:
Faster than a speeding bullet whenever he is double-talking.
More powerful than a locomotive when he’s got you tied up physically, emotionally, socially or financially on his one-track mind.
Able to leap over copyright laws with a single bound copy of the PFAL book.
Look! Up on the stage! It's The Word. It's the “plain” reinterpretation of The Word. It’s the old idle idol himself, super-DUPER-wierwille!
Yes it’s It's super-DuPER-wierwille! strange visitor from an alternate reality who came to the real-world with powers and abilities far beyond those run-of-the-mill-shysters.
Super-DUPER-wierwille ! who can change any course of the mighty curriculum in the way corps training program
bend the meaning of any verse with his bare intellect
and who disguised as “Doctor” Wierwille , the bedside ill-mannered predator for a supposedly “great biblical, research, teaching and fellowship ministry” fights a never-ending battle against truth, justice and wierwille’s way or it’s the highway.
4. Grease Spot Cafe is a multipurpose platform:
Among other things - besides revealing the dark underbelly of “the beast” it also can facilitate the forgiveness / redemption / reconciliation dynamics (see points 1, 2 & 3).
On another thread about TWI having a new member on the board of directors - some Grease Spotters had some nice things to say about the person. I think that’s cool. Hey, I’m all for TWI falling apart - BUT - in the meantime any good people still in TWI ( and I applaud your dream and efforts to make things better) I’m all for you “sabotaging “ any of the harmful and controlling tactics of TWI.
…and I’ll see you at The Rock - uhm I mean the Spot (breaks into song) "celebration time, come on !"
Edited by T-Bone Let he who has excellent proofing skills make the first edit
Great post, T-Bone. One worthy of being split off and reposted in part or whole as a separate thread on the power of prayer, or of redeemed life, or some such, rather than letting it get lost on this thread.
It’s probably best to leave the stuff of my ridiculously long post right where it is…it’s just another one of those annoying and extremely long infomercials* (though it’s UNPAID programming ) on a life-changing experience of surviving a harmful and controlling cult. Since being in a cult can have such a strong effect that it changes one's life – I thought it best to endorse a…product?...service?...process?...yes, process, that is absolutely free and already in one’s reach – self-determination!...I’m also assuming we’re allowed to have more than one life-changing experience.
As the first post on this thread hinted at – those “glory years” of wierwille/TWI, in retrospect by many are now thought of as the gory years because of the cruelty…the psychological torture…the exploiting…the molesting…the manipulation by a harmful and controlling cult.
*Infomercial disclaimer: Though most viewers have come to regard infomercials with skepticism as sometimes the exaggerated claims do not live up to expectations, my ad campaigns are designed to shoot down the exaggerated claims made by TWI. The target audience is anyone in TWI who has a strong sense of disillusionment derived from the failure of TWI to fulfill its declared claims/goals.
Edited by T-Bone promo for Editing in a Can...not satisfied with your post? Just throw it in the trash can.
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WordWolf
I hate to be the one to break it to you, Mike, but..... you overrate your significance on this board. Things don't revolve around you, nor do we wish you'd suddenly start posting again when
Rocky
It won't work. Society has changed drastically since the 1970s. TWI is trying to come up with "new" ideas but said ideas are putting old wine in hopefully new wineskins... or new wine in old wineskins
Twinky
It was you who changed the topic, Mike. If you stayed on topic, you wouldn't drag everyone off into jumping on you. You have no idea what people are doing, but rest assured, offering "God's Wo
Twinky
Or is it rather, that YOU have no idea how to address the points people here have been presenting to you for well over a decade?
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Twinky
Do not mistake honesty for bitterness.
Do not mistake people's recounting of what happened to them, as bitterness.
I suppose we could ask you what your definition is (in this context) of "bitterness." But that would simply invite you to drag the topic even more off topic and away from a serious look at TWI.
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WordWolf
Mike, you didn't "make" any "points." You made a few CLAIMS. Anyone can make any CLAIM. It doesn't become a point until it's actually SUPPORTED BY SOMETHING. Especially ridiculous-sounding complaints should be supported by something substantial, otherwise they just sound like nonsense- and probably are.
I've supported silly claims in the Harry Potter fandom better than you support your claims here- and I was doing so in jest.
If you honestly think that "You think that a Christian has to be someone real special or something if they want to do significant work with and for God" applies to ANYONE here- let alone "many others here" as you said, you're really not experiencing the same posts and threads everyone else is- which is old news, really. You keep objecting to things that nobody ever posted.
"Why should I waste my time on detailed, exhaustive debate with people who are unthankful for being taught that God is good?"
You're fond of claiming you can get into discussions and address points, but have always had extensive excuses as to why you never delivered.
BTW, it's hard to get people to agree that you have no problem with discussion and debate when they know that you've freely acknowledged that you choose to "dodge, distract, but never admit an error is an error" - and only doubled-down on that and claimed it's what you're supposed to do.
As for people being "unthankful for being taught that God is good", there's probably a messageboard where people object to that, but this was never that board.
"AND for showing everyone reading with a brain
that you have NO IDEA how to address
the points I made. "
Mike,
you of all posters really are ill-equipped to claim to speak for "everyone reading with a brain." pfal said right in pfal that it consists of KEYS, and it does NOT contain "Genesis to Revelation," but you claimed that it's Scripture now, and has REPLACED Genesis to Revelation rather than being keys to understanding them. Where pfal outlined HOW to "get back to the original so we can say 'thus saith the LORD'", you've claimed that doing so is impossible- while claiming that pfal was inerrant. So, trying to get converts from people who know your reading comprehension is seriously compromised by your doctrine is foredoomed to failure. Naturally, that doesn't matter much, because periodically you go away, announce in your own mind that you successfully refuted everything we had to say and that we were unable to refute you, and that your system is still unassailable. That may give you comfort (it wouldn't give me comfort), but it doesn't change how completely you've been refuted year after year, only to return and claim that never happened. Since the old threads are still here, "everyone reading with a brain" can go read through them themselves and see what happened.
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Bolshevik
In addition to various defense mechanisms, some people don't experience time constancy. Intermittent pieces of experience are simply not registered. There are then gaps in the sequence of events in memory. The mind must then confabulate, or make up events to maintain a consistent internal dialogue for the sake of sanity . . . At least for that individual.
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waysider
Remember William Huang, the guy who is noted for his American Idol audition that featured him covering Ricky Martin's "She Bangs"? He was seemingly oblivious to his own lack of talent. Was it all a spoof or did he succumb to the Dunning-Kruger Effect?
I'm just sayin'.
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T-Bone
You’re welcome!
Edited by T-BoneAgain I say you’re welcome!
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Bolshevik
*quotes James 1:22-25 . . . worry doubt and fear from some class . . . and the gingerbread man*
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chockfull
We are. By telling the truth.
But by all means continue to derail that truth by calling me desperate and stupid. And turning the attention of all that could be delivered by reading this thread onto you and your dumbass antics.
Jackass.
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chockfull
And to all those reading who really really like nostalgia to the point they would trade anything in their life for that good old feeling, you can probably get old PFAL books on eBay, read them over and over and beg HQ to take you back unsuccessfully.
you, know, like mike is doing, our fearless self appointed leader.
reminds me of the definition of insanity.
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WordWolf
So,
he advertised with them there just like he advertises with us here- since he hasn't been kicked out of either. His sole audience HAS TO consist of twi and ex-twi because nobody else will buy into "vpw was akin to Superman, had a special connection to God, and God Almighty told him to plagiarize a bunch of other Christian writers, for which we should be thankful. The results have replaced the Bible."
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WordWolf
Not that he's getting much successful results, but even dismal returns are better than stony silence and/or laughter, so he sticks to the twi/ex-twi crowds.
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T-Bone
Even fools are thought wise if they keep silent, and discerning if they hold their tongues.
Proverbs 17:28
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
— ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
Being a self-described verbose person with aspirations of comedic surrealism and hopes of someday receiving the gift ministry of a class clown - I obviously have an affinity for those proverbs.
But on a less silly note, I often wonder what is the ACTUAL REASON when someone exhibits such a rigid mindset as to firmly embrace what is wrong - even defying reason and what is morally upright.
I believe that secret may only reside in a higher power. Since that does not satisfy my desire to know, the default reason I tend to gravitate toward is one of the most powerful motivators - love. Love will make…or enable you to do some amazing…even death-defying acts…or compassionate acts…but on the flip side of love - if it has a dark underbelly - there are those “amazing” logic-defying callous acts that are driven by a strong attraction or attachment to a perverse ideology.
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waysider
It diminishes their sense of self-worth to consider they might be wrong.
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T-Bone
Revisiting an idea idea I had expressed earlier on this thread , I thought I’d elaborate on my own struggles to overcome the mental baggage of a lingering TWI-mindset…also known as
how to break free from a rigid mindset when you realize you are wrong.
There was resentment- not only the bitter indignation at having been treated unfairly by TWI-leadership and fellow-way corps when I resigned in 1986 - but at times even being irritated (though unjustly) at work associates who either did not know or did not understand what it’s like to survive a harmful and controlling cult. However - just so you know there were some coworkers I became good friends with - and I did talk with them about my involvement with a harmful and controlling cult. And I also would like to add that once I started posting on Grease Spot I found it got easier and easier to relate my experience to these good friends - something about speaking my mind here helped me to articulate my story to non-TWI folks and overcome the stigma of a former cult-follower. Thanks Paw and all Grease Spotters !!!!
There was this time - several years AFTER I had left TWI. There was a quartermaster over our company’s security equipment inventory. He was a Christian and let everyone know about it. It was common knowledge this married man was a womanizer and a cheat.
You could usually find him down at the commissary in this big office building during a lunch break eyeballing and making lewd remarks about the women that walked by. Sometimes he’d take extremely long lunch breaks to go home and mow his yard -at least that’s what he told us he did - while all of us techs were WAITING OUTSIDE the quartermaster’s dungeon to get parts for our next install or service call.
I’ve witnessed several times when the company’s chief operating officer would get on him after receiving complaints from women who worked in other offices or after us techs would explain why we were late to an install or service call.
The quartermaster knew I was a Christian and so I guess he figured he’d have a sympathetic audience to vent his feelings of embarrassment and frustration after a visit from the COO. He’d go on about how he is praying for God’s justice to fall on the COO…what the fvck ?!?!?!
Side note here: On Grease Spot I may appear to be a person that’s not afraid to be confrontational - but in person - especially back at that time - I would just keep my opinions to myself. So I just held my peace and would not react to his temper tantrums.
A few years later I was promoted to installation and service coordinator. If you know me you’d know I have a strong desire to be knowledgeable, a commitment to technical standards, and love to be organized to within an inch of perfection. Now I was given the opportunity of training techs and to master the logistics of installs and service calls. I had a huge calendar for a desk pad, a computer terminal (we’re gonna party like it’s 1990) so I could access the customer data base and see type of system they had and their Mapsco # - and of course I had several Mapsco Maps for all the areas we covered.
Sometimes due to a heavy workload I felt it was necessary to call a new customer and see if there was some flexibility on the salesperson’s promised arrival time of the tech. Usually most were flexible. There were some who weren’t. And wouldn’t you know it, over-scheduled techs driving in a metroplex’s heavy traffic would be late - sometimes the new customer would call…complain…reschedule…or cancel…then the salespersons would complain to the COO about me screwing things up. One day the COO yells at me in front of everyone “you’ve got to stop pi$$ing people off” (his exact words) - the people I pi$$ed off were some of the sales reps that didn’t make a sales commission from a cancelled new install.
Inside I was fuming mad. How dare he blame me for the over-scheduling frenzy of some aggressive sales reps! I was eaten up with anger and resentment for days. I kept thinking of the quartermaster’s vengeful attitude after the COO’s confronting him. My situation was different - I felt I knew what I was doing and did the best I could in an over-scheduling nightmare - but I also knew it didn’t warrant wishing ill on my boss. And I could not think of anything helpful from what I was taught about prayer in TWI.
Anyway…about a week later our family went on a much-needed getaway to Lake Murray. Relaxing with just the family is always a good thing (never took vacations when I was in TWI…going to the Rock and corps week don’t count) and sometimes whenever I settle down and want real inspiration and more specific directions than the pseudo-intellectualism and superfluous pontificating abstractions of TWI-dogma - I usually read the Gospels.
doing that on this getaway - I came across 3 chapters which mark a watershed moment in surviving…recovering from a harmful and controlling cult’s mindset. They’re Matthew 5, 6 and 7 and in all Jesus talks about how I will truly start understanding and appreciating God’s forgiveness to me when I forgive other sinners…debtors…trespassers (depending on the translation ) and to live out a MATURE SINCERE love - to folks who are pleasant or difficult…which is a reflection of our Father who "makes the sun rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."
And once I remove the log in my own eye so I can see clearly to remove the speck in my brother’s eye.
This went counter to what wierwille taught me on that “mindless prayer “ (that’s code for you-know-what…I’ll just let that sit for a moment) that leaves the understanding “unfruitful “ and is impotent to produce a God-pleasing transformation in the life of the one praying.
I think a good healthy Christian attitude is a genuine desire to please God - and not inflate your ego over all the great things you supposedly did to “move The Word” . ..And it also went counter to the blame-shifting, ignoring, avoiding and the ever-popular-role-reversal-switcheroo tactic that TWI-leadership would use when anyone dared to confront THEIR inappropriate behavior - this classic Harry-Potter-ish spell is invoked by them saying the following “the love of god thinketh no evil.” And to give the incantation an authentic wizardry flavor to the charming King’s English charm it should be followed immediately with something that ends with a Latin twist - for example “Lo Shonta Mecca Lekka High etcetera etcetera etcetera.” ...and hocus pocus now YOU'RE in the wrong for confronting them !
Yo, check it out Grease Spotters - and any TWI-followers trying to relive the glory days. In Matthew 5 Jesus said:
“But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you…”
Jesus goes on to say
“…that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust…”
Alright now hold on…leave you finger in the dike just a little longer - you just might prevent a overwhelming deluge of TWI-isms flowing through your consciousness- at least for a few minutes …as you think about Matthew 6: 9 - 13 NLT. Where we find the Lord’s Prayer …ah yes I still sort of remember wierwille in PFAL telling me why I shouldn’t pray that prayer …but it really doesn’t matter what wierwille said anyway. What’s important is what Jesus Christ said - he is The Logos - The Word…”and remember, class The Word means what it says and says what it means…dats riiiiiiight “ …anyway…here ‘tis :
Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.
Give us today the food we need,
and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
And don’t let us yield to temptation,
but rescue us from the evil one.
So I started slowly doing a serious makeover of my prayer-life…for those in TWI that means prayer in my understanding…Even before this “epiphany “ I had quit doing that mindless-prayer-thing having realized I faked it in session 12…but self-reflection and honesty can be a good thing - yes I had stopped spinning my wheels but now I could make the rubber meet the road and experience the transforming…character shaping power of mindful prayer…I did NOT pray for God’s justice to fall on my boss - instead I prayed for the health and well-being of him and his family. I was thankful for his honesty, integrity and expertise in management and would pray for any personal or professional concerns that he might mention to me.
The relationship with my boss continued to improve…and a few years later our company was sold and the COO, myself and a few other techs accepted a lateral transfer that was offered by the parent company. The former COO was AGAIN my boss as manager over our tech staff.
My boss once gave me a pretty cool compliment in front of all the techs when he was trying to deflate the egos of some new hot-dog techs and stressed being a team-player instead of going for super-stardom… he pointed to me and said “ take a tip from that guy. Yeah he knows his stuff and could probably out-tech most of us here but what’s really great about him is that he can work well with others.” ...redeemed how I love to proclaim it, redeemed by the words of my boss ...just kidding
"I often say this stuff to keep my young people awake."
Hello !
Is anyone still reading this post?
Good for you…I wish I could give you a special award. You deserve it
If you fell asleep during the intermission (wait - there was an intermission?) don’t fret - I forgive you… i can relate …I slept through most of my way corps training...here's my yearbook picture from the way corps >
here's a bunch of us at a night owl >
no wait…that was at corps night…
...oh here's a picture of the one guy who dropped out of our corps >
for obvious reasons...if memory serves...he was the guy always complaining about headaches and bruises on his forehead...if you ask me, I think it was his believing...or rather his lack of believing the bull$hit.
…but anyway - here we are at the moral of this gosh-awful-long-post…or rather just a few points I want to make pertinent to this thread and its twists and turns…don’t touch that dial!
I do NOT think of anyone in TWI, offshoots, or on Grease Spot as my enemy. I often have MINDFUL prayer for all those I’ve just mentioned. When I pray for them I do NOT wish for ill will on anyone - nor do I pray for anyone to see things my way - as if I’m always right on everything - after all we’re all bozos on this planet…or any other planet we plan on colonizing…and now my points:
1. What DO I pray for?
Good question.
In light of Jesus’ directives in Matthew 5 & 6:
I pray the person is having chances to self-reflect and the strength to be honest. I don’t ever expect to see evidence of that - I mean…that would be nice but it’s more important their reflection inspires a God-pleasing change (whatever that might be) than me getting a chance to say “see, I told you so!” After all I might not have the right idea on what they should be doing anyway…but God does. I don’t always do this - but I try to remember to pray in the sentiment of redemption and reconciliation of Romans 12:17 - 21:
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay, "says the Lord.
20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
2. Forgiveness:
- Yes that’s a toughie. Not always easy and not something I always do. But I probably practice forgiveness a lot more than you may think I do. You’re probably thinking “yeah, right - as much as you rag on wierwille, and big-wierwille / PFAL-fans.” This is probably too cerebral for some folks to understand but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with speaking angrily about manipulative, deceptive, controlling, exploitative tactics. The Bible DOES say speak the truth in love.
And as I mentioned in point 1, the goal is reconciliation. According to Jesus in Matthew 5 - reconciliation even has a higher priority than WORSHIP:
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
3. the redemptive / reconciliation dynamic:
One thing that is frustrating about wierwille passing away - is that he lost a chance to come clean…to right his wrongs…not that he didn’t repent before God on his deathbed - but he lost his chance to reconcile with those he offended and hurt. That would also give those he’s hurt an opportunity to forgive - and then both parties could be released from bondage.
forgiveness is the decision to write off and set someone FREE from the debt they owe you - an apology, affirmation, time, a relationship, money, etc.
As the forgiving person you are released from the captivity of bitterness…resentment…holding a grudge.
And just so you know, it’s possible to pick up the pieces and move on even if the perpetrator has died and the offense is left unresolved. People have been doing that since the beginning of us humans being on this little planet…it’s the way of life…you make mistakes…people hurt you…you hurt others…sometimes things go unsettled or remain in perpetual limbo…we do what we can to manage anyway…we learn how to live with the scar tissue…anyway...
Check out what Jesus said in Matthew 7: 1 - 6 and 12:
Judge not, that you be not judged.
2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?
5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Now SOME of you reading this - don’t get up in arms and try to pull the the ever-popular-role-reversal-switcheroo tactic on me…or any other defense mechanism of hypocrites garnered from the deep “research and teaching” of....
the adventures of super-DUPER-wierwille.:
Faster than a speeding bullet whenever he is double-talking.
More powerful than a locomotive when he’s got you tied up physically, emotionally, socially or financially on his one-track mind.
Able to leap over copyright laws with a single bound copy of the PFAL book.
Look! Up on the stage! It's The Word. It's the “plain” reinterpretation of The Word. It’s the old idle idol himself, super-DUPER-wierwille!
Yes it’s It's super-DuPER-wierwille! strange visitor from an alternate reality who came to the real-world with powers and abilities far beyond those run-of-the-mill-shysters.
Super-DUPER-wierwille ! who can change any course of the mighty curriculum in the way corps training program
bend the meaning of any verse with his bare intellect
and who disguised as “Doctor” Wierwille , the bedside ill-mannered predator for a supposedly “great biblical, research, teaching and fellowship ministry” fights a never-ending battle against truth, justice and wierwille’s way or it’s the highway.
4. Grease Spot Cafe is a multipurpose platform:
Among other things - besides revealing the dark underbelly of “the beast” it also can facilitate the forgiveness / redemption / reconciliation dynamics (see points 1, 2 & 3).
On another thread about TWI having a new member on the board of directors - some Grease Spotters had some nice things to say about the person. I think that’s cool. Hey, I’m all for TWI falling apart - BUT - in the meantime any good people still in TWI ( and I applaud your dream and efforts to make things better) I’m all for you “sabotaging “ any of the harmful and controlling tactics of TWI.
…and I’ll see you at The Rock - uhm I mean the Spot (breaks into song) "celebration time, come on !"
Edited by T-BoneLet he who has excellent proofing skills make the first edit
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Twinky
Great post, T-Bone. One worthy of being split off and reposted in part or whole as a separate thread on the power of prayer, or of redeemed life, or some such, rather than letting it get lost on this thread.
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T-Bone
Thanks Twinky,
It’s probably best to leave the stuff of my ridiculously long post right where it is…it’s just another one of those annoying and extremely long infomercials* (though it’s UNPAID programming
) on a life-changing experience of surviving a harmful and controlling cult. Since being in a cult can have such a strong effect that it changes one's life – I thought it best to endorse a…product?...service?...process?...yes, process, that is absolutely free and already in one’s reach – self-determination!...I’m also assuming we’re allowed to have more than one life-changing experience. 
As the first post on this thread hinted at – those “glory years” of wierwille/TWI, in retrospect by many are now thought of as the gory years because of the cruelty…the psychological torture…the exploiting…the molesting…the manipulation by a harmful and controlling cult.
Speaking of prayer – think I’ll reread E M Bounds the Classic Collection on Prayer it’s been a few years since I read it last.
Edited by T-Bone*Infomercial disclaimer: Though most viewers have come to regard infomercials with skepticism as sometimes the exaggerated claims do not live up to expectations, my ad campaigns are designed to shoot down the exaggerated claims made by TWI. The target audience is anyone in TWI who has a strong sense of disillusionment derived from the failure of TWI to fulfill its declared claims/goals.
promo for Editing in a Can...not satisfied with your post? Just throw it in the trash can.
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