It seems TWI is trying to revive the “gory glory years.” It plans to revive “the Rock” as “Young Adult Rock” Aug 12-14, 2022. They call it a “Christian music festival” for Foundational class grads ages 18-35.
It won't work. Society has changed drastically since the 1970s. TWI is trying to come up with "new" ideas but said ideas are putting old wine in hopefully new wineskins... or new wine in old wineskins. Either way, it just will fizzle out without much fanfare before too long.
I’m hoping they are ready to learn some things, and that I learn what they are thinking and what their needs are, instead of guessing.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Johnj “which limb? how small? how long ago?”
California, Pentecost 2018, 60 people. But I had THIS YEAR had dinner with one long standing CA leader and lots of e-mail with him, and then some small e-mailing with a staff member I had an inside tip would be receptive to an e-mail from a stranger like me.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Bolshevik “A key to narcissistic abuse recovery is going no contact. Going no contact means no contact, Mike.”
I wasn’t abuse, and I approach them to minister to them, just like I minister to you here. Minister means serve. I am trying to help, because I was helped.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Hi Twinky. How’s it going? I’ve been enjoying the Book of Romans. Do I remember right, that you are a lawyer. How do you feel about the legal aspect of Romans.
Thx for your service over the years. So Christian music would mean a return to some of the 70s and 80s Way bands as opposed to the more canned approach by rfr
so USA numbers to extrapolate would be well below 3000 active members. Smaller than most membership in community churches in a single city. 2500 is probably a scale number that might be reasonable.
Age restriction of 18-35 basically is a strategic elimination of anyone of our era with knowledge showing up. They want the young fresh moldable minds that don’t know their history and are isolated so they can control them.
The ambassador program and way corps program were initiated by wierwille and will continue despite ongoing anemic turnout for a decade plus.
the ole shyster said if we lose wow we lose the ministry so generation 4 of the way has their own specific new wineskin going of that initiative.
that, capital investment strategies for the $$$$ they have, and trying to get value out of the Colorado property are about what they have going on now.
Pass on calling HQ not necessary or helpful in knowing what is going on.
Members are still highly controlled through the endless succession of hookups and running classes much more controlled from hq than a denomination for example.
Thx for your service over the years. So Christian music would mean a return to some of the 70s and 80s Way bands as opposed to the more canned approach by rfr
so USA numbers to extrapolate would be well below 3000 active members. Smaller than most membership in community churches in a single city. 2500 is probably a scale number that might be reasonable.
Age restriction of 18-35 basically is a strategic elimination of anyone of our era with knowledge showing up. They want the young fresh moldable minds that don’t know their history and are isolated so they can control them.
The ambassador program and way corps program were initiated by wierwille and will continue despite ongoing anemic turnout for a decade plus.
the ole shyster said if we lose wow we lose the ministry so generation 4 of the way has their own specific new wineskin going of that initiative.
that, capital investment strategies for the $$$$ they have, and trying to get value out of the Colorado property are about what they have going on now.
Pass on calling HQ not necessary or helpful in knowing what is going on.
Members are still highly controlled through the endless succession of hookups and running classes much more controlled from hq than a denomination for example.
Members are still highly controlled through the endless succession of hookups and running classes much more controlled from hq than a denomination for example.
Do any of you know people who have recently departed from twi?
It seems TWI is trying to revive the “gory glory years.” It plans to revive “the Rock” as “Young Adult Rock” Aug 12-14, 2022. They call it a “Christian music festival” for Foundational class grads ages 18-35. A few days after it, TWI plans to send out Way “Ambassadors.” The “Ambassadors of The Way Outreach Program” will replace both the original WOW and the Way Disciples outreach program, which sends an anemic 4 teams (approx.) per term/ year. They will serve Aug 21 to June 4, 2023.That’s a 9.5 month term vs. the 6 month disciple and 12 month WOW terms. They hope to have Ambassadors in 12 countries in which there are active Way Corps. How many people will they actually get? What do they mean by "Christian music"?
No idea, far as answers. It's been pete and repeat there since Day One, with some occasional bright lights surfacing.
A lot of what the Way did with VPW's direction was to adopt and re label and re design existing programs and systems. He'd been exposed to the liberal Protestant meta physical teachings and efforts by Glen Clark, Mosley, Daily and others, the "Ashrams", all of that. He talked a lot about that in the 60's and early 70's that I heard from him. He didn't really connect the "Jesus People" movement on the West Coast to that, in a practical way though, he never spoke of the doctrinal or theological underpinnings, at least that I heard. Despite wanting to be a Big Thinker he lacked a methodology to synthesize ideas, he was a tad clumsy in that regard and more inclined to assemble, copy and rename.
So where there were Glenn Clark and his "Camp Farthest Out" and retreats, VPW called his getaways "Advances" which I think was a name already getting used, I forget who else might have been using it - "renewal" was a favored term too, nothing wrong with any of them I guess but my point is that VPW tended to do pretty much what others had or were doing and he just renamed them and made them out to be his own ideas.
The sense of ownership that comes with things we come up with and work to accomplish that may not be actually "new" aside, it seemed he knew exactly what he was doing in that regard.
So - what the Way is doing by building loosely on their own past and using that is probably a combination of a sense of pursuing a thread of godliness in their past and doing what they know how to do. Even at my kindest I'd have to say the Way was never led by the brightest bulbs. Anyone with education, talent and motivation was expected to put on the nametag and move the program he wanted to put in place. Anyone with education, talent and motivation either didn't stay or was booted out at some point, leaving the Most Average of the Average to mind the store. Others had the mindset of survival so they kept on for the 3 hots and the cot.
I hear news of what they're doing and as kindly as I can put it - it sounds about right. I just don't expect much from them, and can't see why I would.
So, they're trying what worked in the 1960s and 1970s in the US to increase numbers. That, more than anything, shows how utterly out of touch they are. Then again, the people at the top may just want to keep the lights on until they can squirrel away a nest egg and extract all the financial value they can out of twi, then split and not care if the doors shut or not.
Even at my kindest I'd have to say the Way was never led by the brightest bulbs. Anyone with education, talent and motivation was expected to put on the nametag and move the program he wanted to put in place. Anyone with education, talent and motivation either didn't stay or was booted out at some point, leaving the Most Average of the Average to mind the store. Others had the mindset of survival so they kept on for the 3 hots and the cot.
As Emiril Lagassi would say, "BAM!" ... but don't expect TWI to "Kick it up a notch."
No idea, far as answers. It's been pete and repeat there since Day One, with some occasional bright lights surfacing.
A lot of what the Way did with VPW's direction was to adopt and re label and re design existing programs and systems. He'd been exposed to the liberal Protestant meta physical teachings and efforts by Glen Clark, Mosley, Daily and others, the "Ashrams", all of that. He talked a lot about that in the 60's and early 70's that I heard from him. He didn't really connect the "Jesus People" movement on the West Coast to that, in a practical way though, he never spoke of the doctrinal or theological underpinnings, at least that I heard. Despite wanting to be a Big Thinker he lacked a methodology to synthesize ideas, he was a tad clumsy in that regard and more inclined to assemble, copy and rename.
So where there were Glenn Clark and his "Camp Farthest Out" and retreats, VPW called his getaways "Advances" which I think was a name already getting used, I forget who else might have been using it - "renewal" was a favored term too, nothing wrong with any of them I guess but my point is that VPW tended to do pretty much what others had or were doing and he just renamed them and made them out to be his own ideas.
The sense of ownership that comes with things we come up with and work to accomplish that may not be actually "new" aside, it seemed he knew exactly what he was doing in that regard.
So - what the Way is doing by building loosely on their own past and using that is probably a combination of a sense of pursuing a thread of godliness in their past and doing what they know how to do. Even at my kindest I'd have to say the Way was never led by the brightest bulbs. Anyone with education, talent and motivation was expected to put on the nametag and move the program he wanted to put in place. Anyone with education, talent and motivation either didn't stay or was booted out at some point, leaving the Most Average of the Average to mind the store. Others had the mindset of survival so they kept on for the 3 hots and the cot.
I hear news of what they're doing and as kindly as I can put it - it sounds about right. I just don't expect much from them, and can't see why I would.
Yep......that is a *kind* assessment.
After 23 years of post-twi acknowledging how abusive, exploitive, dysfunctional and pathetic The Way International was and is ...... there is no way that I can use euphemisms regarding Wierwille's narcissism and pathologies to deceive others. The Way International was/is a cult, because wierwille was a lazy, plagiarist, predator and profiteer. The whole marketing scheme was "get butts in chairs for classes and big events and fleece their money thru guilt." Since PFAL '77..... big event after big event as the cult leader, wierwille, pontificates and rehashes B.G. Leonard's (and Bullinger's) material.
Wierwille was a fraudster. He talked big, but behinds the scenes the con was in full gear. Enablers stocked his motor coach with Drambuie and his aides, bodyguards, became procurers inviting select young corps girls to wierwille's lair, motor coach. Sick, twisted, destructive evil.
So, no.....I have NO euphemisms for wierwille's "leadership and ministry."
At this stage of the game......I assert that twi's directors and splinter group leaders RIDE THE COATTAILS OF WIERWILLE, because it's the *only game* that gives them access to gullible pfal-followers. In a galaxy far, far away......a generation of youth became mesmerized with a cult of personality. Like a fish caught on a line, the "believer" was reeled into the net. There was subliminal messaging throughout pfal...... once you hear "the Word" (wierwille's 33-hrs of pfal rehashing), DO NOT ALLOW anyone to ever talk you out of it. No matter that wierwille couldn't walk the spiritual walk..... but instead smoked like a chimney, a drunkard, a striker, a bully, kept pornography, a serial plagiarist and sexual predator.
Some people succumb to spiritual abuse and are institutionalized.
Some people see the ruse and break those chains to gain freedom.
After 23 years of post-twi acknowledging how abusive, exploitive, dysfunctional and pathetic The Way International was and is ...... there is no way that I can use euphemisms regarding Wierwille's narcissism and pathologies to deceive others. The Way International was/is a cult, because wierwille was a lazy, plagiarist, predator and profiteer. The whole marketing scheme was "get butts in chairs for classes and big events and fleece their money thru guilt." Since PFAL '77..... big event after big event as the cult leader, wierwille, pontificates and rehashes B.G. Leonard's (and Bullinger's) material.
Wierwille was a fraudster. He talked big, but behinds the scenes the con was in full gear. Enablers stocked his motor coach with Drambuie and his aides, bodyguards, became procurers inviting select young corps girls to wierwille's lair, motor coach. Sick, twisted, destructive evil.
So, no.....I have NO euphemisms for wierwille's "leadership and ministry."
At this stage of the game......I assert that twi's directors and splinter group leaders RIDE THE COATTAILS OF WIERWILLE, because it's the *only game* that gives them access to gullible pfal-followers. In a galaxy far, far away......a generation of youth became mesmerized with a cult of personality. Like a fish caught on a line, the "believer" was reeled into the net. There was subliminal messaging throughout pfal...... once you hear "the Word" (wierwille's 33-hrs of pfal rehashing), DO NOT ALLOW anyone to ever talk you out of it. No matter that wierwille couldn't walk the spiritual walk..... but instead smoked like a chimney, a drunkard, a striker, a bully, kept pornography, a serial plagiarist and sexual predator.
Some people succumb to spiritual abuse and are institutionalized.
Some people see the ruse and break those chains to gain freedom.
.
Excellent post with insightful links , Skyrider!
I can easily see your post as a segment on 60 Minutes
I tend to think there is a vast difference of experiences between your average TWI-follower and the way corps…like the difference between a satisfied customer who prefers a certain brand of processed food and the supply chain / factory workers who get that “food” out to the public - they are the ones who really know what goes into the product and what it takes to get people hooked on it.
Bolshevik “A key to narcissistic abuse recovery is going no contact. Going no contact means no contact, Mike.”
I wasn’t abuse, and I approach them to minister to them, just like I minister to you here. Minister means serve. I am trying to help, because I was helped.
Narcissists create "toxic amnesia" . . . kinda goes along with nostalgia and gaslighting?
Remember the phrase " a double minded man is unstable in all his ways" ? I bet that helped in the selective memories process in creating that false narrative.
You were not helped. You were told you were helped, after confusion with the difference with giving versus taking set in.
I tend to think there is a vast difference of experiences between your average TWI-follower and the way corps…like the difference between a satisfied customer who prefers a certain brand of processed food and the supply chain / factory workers who get that “food” out to the public - they are the ones who really know what goes into the product and what it takes to get people hooked on it.
I think I saw that phenomenon some. But I'm talking about the point #1 which focused on the "...difference between...."
What I saw were grads who did not make the Word their own, meaning flash on the messages Paul as in the Scriptures. They did well with slogans and memes and some verbal memorizing, but they did not really get down to being familiar with all the material in the Scriptures.
T-Bone, you made other points with your simile, which I think is a no-no. At least it is in parables, where only one point is being made.
I disagree with your other point that characterizes the Word I was taught as processed food being dished out by mindless workers. Yes, there sere some of those types also, but I learned how to avoid them.
In my experience, I did not really trust what VPW taught until I could see it in my KJV. That went fast and easy with some topics, and slow and painful for some others. In the end I was a satisfied customers because God was glorified in my life, and I knew Jesus Christ as a big brother, and I was free from condemnation.
I understand that some missed out on these treasures.
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WordWolf
I hate to be the one to break it to you, Mike, but..... you overrate your significance on this board. Things don't revolve around you, nor do we wish you'd suddenly start posting again when
Rocky
It won't work. Society has changed drastically since the 1970s. TWI is trying to come up with "new" ideas but said ideas are putting old wine in hopefully new wineskins... or new wine in old wineskins
Twinky
It was you who changed the topic, Mike. If you stayed on topic, you wouldn't drag everyone off into jumping on you. You have no idea what people are doing, but rest assured, offering "God's Wo
frank123lol
Heck i was taught seek out the older people they know the score.So this is just another Mind game
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Rocky
It won't work. Society has changed drastically since the 1970s. TWI is trying to come up with "new" ideas but said ideas are putting old wine in hopefully new wineskins... or new wine in old wineskins. Either way, it just will fizzle out without much fanfare before too long.
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Mike
Do any of you folks ever talk to current TWI members?
I seek them out, mostly older grads of the real Foundational Class from 1968, and ev en attended a very small Limb meeting.
It is good to remind them of what was good about the good old days.
I make it a point t call HQ ever so often.
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Rocky
What do you learn when you do that?
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Twinky
Hello, Mike. Long time no see.
JohnJ: LOL, the "gory days."
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waysider
Why?
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johnj
which limb? how small? how long ago?
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Rocky
To clarify the record, what "Rocky said..." is really Rocky quoted Mike as saying.
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Bolshevik
Stalking in God's Word. Think that was in the sixth collateral.
A key to narcissistic abuse recovery is going no contact. Going no contact means no contact, Mike.
If you call and they say "we don't want to talk" . . Don't say "but you just did". . . Doesn't help
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Mike
Howdy all.
Rocky “What do you learn when you do that?”
I’m hoping they are ready to learn some things, and that I learn what they are thinking and what their needs are, instead of guessing.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Johnj “which limb? how small? how long ago?”
California, Pentecost 2018, 60 people. But I had THIS YEAR had dinner with one long standing CA leader and lots of e-mail with him, and then some small e-mailing with a staff member I had an inside tip would be receptive to an e-mail from a stranger like me.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Bolshevik “A key to narcissistic abuse recovery is going no contact. Going no contact means no contact, Mike.”
I wasn’t abuse, and I approach them to minister to them, just like I minister to you here. Minister means serve. I am trying to help, because I was helped.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Hi Twinky. How’s it going? I’ve been enjoying the Book of Romans. Do I remember right, that you are a lawyer. How do you feel about the legal aspect of Romans.
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chockfull
Hi John,
Thx for your service over the years. So Christian music would mean a return to some of the 70s and 80s Way bands as opposed to the more canned approach by rfr
so USA numbers to extrapolate would be well below 3000 active members. Smaller than most membership in community churches in a single city. 2500 is probably a scale number that might be reasonable.
Age restriction of 18-35 basically is a strategic elimination of anyone of our era with knowledge showing up. They want the young fresh moldable minds that don’t know their history and are isolated so they can control them.
The ambassador program and way corps program were initiated by wierwille and will continue despite ongoing anemic turnout for a decade plus.
the ole shyster said if we lose wow we lose the ministry so generation 4 of the way has their own specific new wineskin going of that initiative.
that, capital investment strategies for the $$$$ they have, and trying to get value out of the Colorado property are about what they have going on now.
Pass on calling HQ not necessary or helpful in knowing what is going on.
Members are still highly controlled through the endless succession of hookups and running classes much more controlled from hq than a denomination for example.
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T-Bone
that’s a thoughtful analysis, Chockfull
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Rocky
Do any of you know people who have recently departed from twi?
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socks
No idea, far as answers. It's been pete and repeat there since Day One, with some occasional bright lights surfacing.
A lot of what the Way did with VPW's direction was to adopt and re label and re design existing programs and systems. He'd been exposed to the liberal Protestant meta physical teachings and efforts by Glen Clark, Mosley, Daily and others, the "Ashrams", all of that. He talked a lot about that in the 60's and early 70's that I heard from him. He didn't really connect the "Jesus People" movement on the West Coast to that, in a practical way though, he never spoke of the doctrinal or theological underpinnings, at least that I heard. Despite wanting to be a Big Thinker he lacked a methodology to synthesize ideas, he was a tad clumsy in that regard and more inclined to assemble, copy and rename.
So where there were Glenn Clark and his "Camp Farthest Out" and retreats, VPW called his getaways "Advances" which I think was a name already getting used, I forget who else might have been using it - "renewal" was a favored term too, nothing wrong with any of them I guess but my point is that VPW tended to do pretty much what others had or were doing and he just renamed them and made them out to be his own ideas.
The sense of ownership that comes with things we come up with and work to accomplish that may not be actually "new" aside, it seemed he knew exactly what he was doing in that regard.
So - what the Way is doing by building loosely on their own past and using that is probably a combination of a sense of pursuing a thread of godliness in their past and doing what they know how to do. Even at my kindest I'd have to say the Way was never led by the brightest bulbs. Anyone with education, talent and motivation was expected to put on the nametag and move the program he wanted to put in place. Anyone with education, talent and motivation either didn't stay or was booted out at some point, leaving the Most Average of the Average to mind the store. Others had the mindset of survival so they kept on for the 3 hots and the cot.
I hear news of what they're doing and as kindly as I can put it - it sounds about right. I just don't expect much from them, and can't see why I would.
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WordWolf
So, they're trying what worked in the 1960s and 1970s in the US to increase numbers. That, more than anything, shows how utterly out of touch they are. Then again, the people at the top may just want to keep the lights on until they can squirrel away a nest egg and extract all the financial value they can out of twi, then split and not care if the doors shut or not.
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Rocky
As Emiril Lagassi would say, "BAM!" ... but don't expect TWI to "Kick it up a notch."
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skyrider
Yep......that is a *kind* assessment.
After 23 years of post-twi acknowledging how abusive, exploitive, dysfunctional and pathetic The Way International was and is ...... there is no way that I can use euphemisms regarding Wierwille's narcissism and pathologies to deceive others. The Way International was/is a cult, because wierwille was a lazy, plagiarist, predator and profiteer. The whole marketing scheme was "get butts in chairs for classes and big events and fleece their money thru guilt." Since PFAL '77..... big event after big event as the cult leader, wierwille, pontificates and rehashes B.G. Leonard's (and Bullinger's) material.
Wierwille was a fraudster. He talked big, but behinds the scenes the con was in full gear. Enablers stocked his motor coach with Drambuie and his aides, bodyguards, became procurers inviting select young corps girls to wierwille's lair, motor coach. Sick, twisted, destructive evil.
So, no.....I have NO euphemisms for wierwille's "leadership and ministry."
````
````
At this stage of the game......I assert that twi's directors and splinter group leaders RIDE THE COATTAILS OF WIERWILLE, because it's the *only game* that gives them access to gullible pfal-followers. In a galaxy far, far away......a generation of youth became mesmerized with a cult of personality. Like a fish caught on a line, the "believer" was reeled into the net. There was subliminal messaging throughout pfal...... once you hear "the Word" (wierwille's 33-hrs of pfal rehashing), DO NOT ALLOW anyone to ever talk you out of it. No matter that wierwille couldn't walk the spiritual walk..... but instead smoked like a chimney, a drunkard, a striker, a bully, kept pornography, a serial plagiarist and sexual predator.
Some people succumb to spiritual abuse and are institutionalized.
Some people see the ruse and break those chains to gain freedom.
.
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T-Bone
Excellent post with insightful links , Skyrider!
I can easily see your post as a segment on 60 Minutes
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Mike
Yikes! That was just the opposite of my experience.
My life was loaded with guilt and the Word I learned in the class helped me a lot.
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T-Bone
I tend to think there is a vast difference of experiences between your average TWI-follower and the way corps…like the difference between a satisfied customer who prefers a certain brand of processed food and the supply chain / factory workers who get that “food” out to the public - they are the ones who really know what goes into the product and what it takes to get people hooked on it.
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waysider
What was it about your life that made you feel guilty and how did the Word help you a lot?
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Bolshevik
Narcissists create "toxic amnesia" . . . kinda goes along with nostalgia and gaslighting?
Remember the phrase " a double minded man is unstable in all his ways" ? I bet that helped in the selective memories process in creating that false narrative.
You were not helped. You were told you were helped, after confusion with the difference with giving versus taking set in.
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Mike
I think I saw that phenomenon some. But I'm talking about the point #1 which focused on the "...difference between...."
What I saw were grads who did not make the Word their own, meaning flash on the messages Paul as in the Scriptures. They did well with slogans and memes and some verbal memorizing, but they did not really get down to being familiar with all the material in the Scriptures.
T-Bone, you made other points with your simile, which I think is a no-no. At least it is in parables, where only one point is being made.
I disagree with your other point that characterizes the Word I was taught as processed food being dished out by mindless workers. Yes, there sere some of those types also, but I learned how to avoid them.
In my experience, I did not really trust what VPW taught until I could see it in my KJV. That went fast and easy with some topics, and slow and painful for some others. In the end I was a satisfied customers because God was glorified in my life, and I knew Jesus Christ as a big brother, and I was free from condemnation.
I understand that some missed out on these treasures.
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Mike
I reported in great detail on this a year or three ago here. I'll look for it to paste.
Bottom line: I was a devout Catholic with 8 years of Nun training by the time I was 14.
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