There is a big difference between opinion pieces and either peer reviewed papers, empirical studies, or review articles…
Everyone has an opinion. The other types have much more legitimate research backing them.
Depends on who is doing the peer reviewing....The Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine says it is overly flawed and the Lancet says for the most part it's a joke...read it for yourself...
As I've said before......we are IN THE EARLY STAGES OF LEARNING about Covid-19 and upcoming variants. To that end, there will be new methods, new pills, and new therapeutic treatments being introduced to the FDA, CDC, and general public. Medical doctors and institutions from around the world are engaged to find better solutions.
Pfizer is advancing in its experimental phase of a new antiviral pill for Covid-19.
Pfizer Inc. said Friday that its experimental antiviral pill for COVID-19 cut rates of hospitalization and death by nearly 90% in high-risk adults, as the drug maker joined the race for an easy-to-use medication to treat the coronavirus.
Currently most COVID-19 treatments require an IV or injection. Competitor Merck's COVID-19 pill is already under review at the Food and Drug Administration after showing strong initial results, and on Thursday the United Kingdom became the first country to OK it.
Pfizer said it will ask the FDA and international regulators to authorize its pill as soon as possible, after independent experts recommended halting the company's study based on the strength of its results. Once Pfizer applies, the FDA could make a decision within weeks or months.
Since the beginning of the pandemic last year, researchers worldwide have been racing to find a pill to treat COVID-19 that can be taken at home to ease symptoms, speed recovery and keep people out of the hospital.
Having pills to treat early COVID-19 "would be a very important advance," said Dr. John Mellors, chief of infectious diseases at the University of Pittsburgh, who was not involved in the Pfizer study.
Fascinating. An opinion piece critiquing peer review.
Having children does not change whether something is true or not. It may, however, change how you perceive that truth. In other words, it may change your opinion .
Yes, Einstein had a controversial opinion. It was based on lots of hard work, calculation and data.
Pfizer Inc. said Friday that its experimental antiviral pill for COVID-19 cut rates of hospitalization and death by nearly 90% in high-risk adults, as the drug maker joined the race for an easy-to-use medication to treat the coronavirus.
This is great news if everything plays out. There are still parts of the world that don't have access to the vaccine for various reasons, such as logistical difficulties and lack of funds. This could be a real life saver if all goes to plan. In the meantime, our best tool available is the vaccine. We need to be getting as many people vaccinated as possible so there will be no need to treat the disease after it's already taken hold.
The UK has indeed approved a covid-19 pill just this week. And yes, at this stage IT IS EXPERIMENTAL. But it is expected to help in the recovery of people who already have the early signs of the illness - whether vaxed or not. It is not instead of the vaccine; it's not a preventive; it's to help those who have already got the illness.
As it's in its early stages and is still somewhat experimental, can we expect vax naysayers to refuse this new treatment? Because it's so new, hasn't been around long enough to be tested, etc? Just because it's not injected direct into the body doesn't mean that it won't have effects on the body (indeed, having effects is the very purpose!) or that it can't hurt the body. (Anti-Polio drugs, for example, aren't injected now; but taken orally but are just as effective.)
If the non-vaxed with the illness are offered this pill, it would be very hypocritical of them to accept it based, on the very arguments that they've used to avoid being jabbed.
This is great news if everything plays out. There are still parts of the world that don't have access to the vaccine for various reasons, such as logistical difficulties and lack of funds. This could be a real life saver if all goes to plan. In the meantime, our best tool available is the vaccine. We need to be getting as many people vaccinated as possible so there will be no need to treat the disease after it's already taken hold.
Great news alright ! Able to skip the vaccine and just have the pill if the bodies defences get overwhelmed.
Fascinating. An opinion piece critiquing peer review.
Having children does not change whether something is true or not. It may, however, change how you perceive that truth. In other words, it may change your opinion .
Yes, Einstein had a controversial opinion. It was based on lots of hard work, calculation and data.
So was that professor of virology...the guy with children :)
The UK has indeed approved a covid-19 pill just this week. And yes, at this stage IT IS EXPERIMENTAL. But it is expected to help in the recovery of people who already have the early signs of the illness - whether vaxed or not. It is not instead of the vaccine; it's not a preventive; it's to help those who have already got the illness.
As it's in its early stages and is still somewhat experimental, can we expect vax naysayers to refuse this new treatment? Because it's so new, hasn't been around long enough to be tested, etc? Just because it's not injected direct into the body doesn't mean that it won't have effects on the body (indeed, having effects is the very purpose!) or that it can't hurt the body. (Anti-Polio drugs, for example, aren't injected now; but taken orally but are just as effective.)
If the non-vaxed with the illness are offered this pill, it would be very hypocritical of them to accept it based, on the very arguments that they've used to avoid being jabbed.
You appear to have very much developed the 'us' and 'them' mindset Twinks !! Why, may I ask, is that ? Is that perhaps because those who are against either the 'jab' or the 'mandate' to get it are opposed to your beliefs ? This is division, divisive tactics and many on here have escaped that type of attitude in a previous cult. Perhaps not 'everything' has been let go of ?The citizens are being divided into two camps...gee, almost like it was planned.
You appear to have very much developed the 'us' and 'them' mindset Twinks !! Why, may I ask, is that ? Is that perhaps because those who are against either the 'jab' or the 'mandate' to get it are opposed to your beliefs ? This is division, divisive tactics and many on here have escaped that type of attitude in a previous cult. Perhaps not 'everything' has been let go of ?The citizens are being divided into two camps...gee, almost like it was planned.
Us and them, Allan? I simply do not understand why people refuse to do something that's pretty safe, costs nothing, and helps many. Most of those refusing have quite silly arguments, which do not stand up to close scrutiny or logical reasoning. I have heard caution, uncertainty, and can understand those people. I have also outright lies spouted as if they were absolute truth; those people I can't understand at all.
On 11/7/2021 at 12:18 PM, Allan said:
Great news alright ! Able to skip the vaccine and just have the pill if the bodies defences get overwhelmed.
Is that a serious comment, or tongue in cheek? If serious, I really challenge you on this particular experimental technology, when you refuse other technology that is now proven to reduce risks.
Us and them, Allan? I simply do not understand why people refuse to do something that's pretty safe, costs nothing, and helps many. Most of those refusing have quite silly arguments, which do not stand up to close scrutiny or logical reasoning. I have heard caution, uncertainty, and can understand those people. I have also outright lies spouted as if they were absolute truth; those people I can't understand at all.
Is that a serious comment, or tongue in cheek? If serious, I really challenge you on this particular experimental technology, when you refuse other technology that is now proven to reduce risks.
CNN gives some decent news. It tries to be somewhat balanced, but of course it has an edge. One could choose Fox (Faux) News, which has known double standards - for example, it spouts stuff against vaccination, but most of the news staff have in fact been vaccinated. There are other really weird US news sources. No thanks, to them.
I don't know where Stuff's balance is, but it seems okay to me. It's a gathering of news from all around NZ.
BBC has a legal requirement to produce fair and balanced commentary on subjects, unlike US news outlets. But much the same stuff will be found on competitors ITV and Channel 4.
Twinky said " I simply do not understand why people refuse to do something that's pretty safe, costs nothing, and helps many. Most of those refusing have quite silly arguments, which do not stand up to close scrutiny or logical reasoning. I have heard caution, uncertainty, and can understand those people. I have also outright lies spouted as if they were absolute truth; those people I can't understand at all."
Your response is interesting. Perhaps it's the self and same reason whilst in twi we couldn't understand by people did not want the 'greatness of God's Word'- interested on your take on WHY we thought that and was it a valid mindset at the time ?
Those vehemently FOR covid vaccination, masks, mandates, isolation vs those AGAINST same...which one displays 'cultish' behavior ? According to John Juedes it's the former.
Twinky said " I simply do not understand why people refuse to do something that's pretty safe, costs nothing, and helps many. Most of those refusing have quite silly arguments, which do not stand up to close scrutiny or logical reasoning. I have heard caution, uncertainty, and can understand those people. I have also outright lies spouted as if they were absolute truth; those people I can't understand at all."
Your response is interesting. Perhaps it's the self and same reason whilst in twi we couldn't understand by people did not want the 'greatness of God's Word'- interested on your take on WHY we thought that and was it a valid mindset at the time ?
Those vehemently FOR covid vaccination, masks, mandates, isolation vs those AGAINST same...which one displays 'cultish' behavior ? According to John Juedes it's the former.
Are you saying getting the vaccine is equivalent or analogous to joining a cult?
Awhile ago you were bragging about your God-given immunity abilities. As predestination was involved.
Your response is interesting. Perhaps it's the self and same reason whilst in twi we couldn't understand by people did not want the 'greatness of God's Word'- interested on your take on WHY we thought that and was it a valid mindset at the time ?
Those vehemently FOR covid vaccination, masks, mandates, isolation vs those AGAINST same...which one displays 'cultish' behavior ? According to John Juedes it's the former.
Interesting??
Allan, you are pushing your PoV and pushing aside others' PoV. If you want people to understand your PoV, please express yourself in your own words as to why you have a different view.
As I perceive your reasoning, your "God-given immune system" is sufficient to protect you. (And, therefore, it presumably protects you from passing anything at all onto all those you come into contact with.) I am wondering if you have ever had a common cold (virus), sore throat (various causes), infection of any kind, fever, gyppy tummy, rubella, shingles (you're still a bit young for that), or any other thing wrong with you - or any of the people around you.
If you cut yourself, do you wash the injury with soap and water? Put a plaster on it? Or just leave it to your immune system to deal with the open wound?
Do you wash your hands before food preparation? Especially cold foods - salads? Or does, say, E.coli take one look at you and flee in terror, because of your immune system? (Somehow, I don't think so!)
It seems to me that the corollary of "I have a great immune system and therefore I won't get this disease badly" (you said you've already had it twice) is, for anyone who gets seriously ill (including your own loved ones): "You don't have a great immune system, and therefore you ..." - what? don't believe God? - which comes perilously close to victim-blaming. (LCM style: pointing finger, screaming at top of voice: "XYZ stepped out of God's hedge of protection!!!")
There are plenty of scientists, worldwide, who think something more than a God-given immune system is required. Some of those scientists are probably Christians, too.
And some of those who have died are Christians. Please don't blame them for having fallible human bodies. Heck, your own brother-in-law died of covid complications.
So. In your own words, why do you have a different view from the body of international scientists, clinicians, hospital workers, statisticians and suchlike? What can you say to convince me that these people are all wrong?
What can you say to convince my friend Rebecca, a nurse in ICU, a devout Christian, that what she sees with her own eyes - isn't true?
Allan, you are pushing your PoV and pushing aside others' PoV. If you want people to understand your PoV, please express yourself in your own words as to why you have a different view.
As I perceive your reasoning, your "God-given immune system" is sufficient to protect you. (And, therefore, it presumably protects you from passing anything at all onto all those you come into contact with.) I am wondering if you have ever had a common cold (virus), sore throat (various causes), infection of any kind, fever, gyppy tummy, rubella, shingles (you're still a bit young for that), or any other thing wrong with you - or any of the people around you.
If you cut yourself, do you wash the injury with soap and water? Put a plaster on it? Or just leave it to your immune system to deal with the open wound?
Do you wash your hands before food preparation? Especially cold foods - salads? Or does, say, E.coli take one look at you and flee in terror, because of your immune system? (Somehow, I don't think so!)
It seems to me that the corollary of "I have a great immune system and therefore I won't get this disease badly" (you said you've already had it twice) is, for anyone who gets seriously ill (including your own loved ones): "You don't have a great immune system, and therefore you ..." - what? don't believe God? - which comes perilously close to victim-blaming. (LCM style: pointing finger, screaming at top of voice: "XYZ stepped out of God's hedge of protection!!!")
There are plenty of scientists, worldwide, who think something more than a God-given immune system is required. Some of those scientists are probably Christians, too.
And some of those who have died are Christians. Please don't blame them for having fallible human bodies. Heck, your own brother-in-law died of covid complications.
So. In your own words, why do you have a different view from the body of international scientists, clinicians, hospital workers, statisticians and suchlike? What can you say to convince me that these people are all wrong?
What can you say to convince my friend Rebecca, a nurse in ICU, a devout Christian, that what she sees with her own eyes - isn't true?
1/Your 'perceiving' of my reasoning is incorrect actually. I don't believe I said "my God-given immune system is sufficient to protect me" My POV is that I'll 'run with what I've got' and not put made up suff into my body...at this stage anyways. 2/ I also did not 'infer' as is your 'assumption' that my God-given immune system would not stop me passing on the virus (neither does the covid jab btw)
3/ I am also not 'pushing my POV', you guys are, I'm not pushing anything except my thoughts/beliefs on what I am doing. Have I told ANYONE to NOT get the jab ? vs you and others telling me I should !
I'm thinking (not saying) that the hysteria and rhetoric around it and the 'group think' is resoundingly close to cultism.
You might think so, but you haven't made a cogent (or sound or rational or logical) argument to that effect.
You have led me to question what, ultimately, your objective might be for your bickering on this thread.
As to your dismissive retort "Einstein" when I pointed out the awkwardness of your cherry picking, I would suggest that Professor Einstein's theories and rumination were most definitely not putting ANYbody in danger of death by pandemic. Therefore, your retort is even more awkward and out of place than otherwise apparent.
1/Your 'perceiving' of my reasoning is incorrect actually. I don't believe I said "my God-given immune system is sufficient to protect me" My POV is that I'll 'run with what I've got' and not put made up suff into my body...at this stage anyways. 2/ I also did not 'infer' as is your 'assumption' that my God-given immune system would not stop me passing on the virus (neither does the covid jab btw)
3/ I am also not 'pushing my POV', you guys are, I'm not pushing anything except my thoughts/beliefs on what I am doing. Have I told ANYONE to NOT get the jab ? vs you and others telling me I should ! Just as bad as the bloody 'vegans' and 'climate change cultists'.
Thanks Allan......for stating your position.
THiS is what a *discussion forum* is all about. Something that twi NEVER allowed.
... “most children and adolescents with Covid-19 have no, or only mild, symptoms”.
“Typical symptoms include fever, cough, a sore throat, blocked or runny nose, sneezing, muscle aches, and fatigue,”the research read.
“Changes in smell or taste, diarrhoea and vomiting are less common. Severe disease typically manifests as pneumonia with respiratory distress, and may require admission to hospital or intensive care.
“Severe Covid-19 disease in children and adolescents is very uncommon, and only very rarely causes death.”
You're still missing the point, Allan.
1.) Children with the virus are vectors. They spread the disease to others who can suffer severe disease and death. Remember Typhoid Mary? She unknowingly infected 53 people. Three of them died. She, herself, was asymptomatic.
2.) Children can appear to be unaffected, only to develop MIS-C weeks later. If left untreated, it can be life threatening. No one wants to knowingly subject their kids to that possibility.
3.) The risks you can face from getting the disease are greater than the risks from the vaccine. Pericarditis is a good example. Your chance of developing pericarditis from the disease, itself, is several times higher than from the vaccine.
All the vaccine does is teach the body's immune system what the virus looks like so when it sees it, it can launch an immune response. Your immune system does the heavy lifting, not the vaccine. You are correct when you say we don't know how long your immune system will fight off infection. Not enough time has passed to really know yet.
Immunity is multifaceted. When your body senses a foreign substance (virus), it begins to produce antibodies. Our bodies encounter foreign invaders all the time so they are constantly producing some form or other of antibodies. They are too numerous for your body to retain on a long term basis. That's why efficacy wanes. There is good news, though. Once your immune system knows what a particular virus looks like, it starts producing special cells (T-Cells and B-Cells) that are specifically tasked with sensing the presence of invaders and subsequently making a new batch of antibodies. People who were infected with SARS-1 in 2003 have long since lost any antibodies they developed. Recent tests, however, have revealed they still have at least some T and B cells, 18 years after the fact. SARS-1 is similar to the current SARS-2 that is causing Covid. With that in mind, it's reasonable to assume that some T and B cells for SARS-2 may last for years, as well. We don't know that for a fact, though, because not enough time has passed. In the meantime we can use the vaccine to tell the body to make T and B cells and keep the arsenal full just in case .
It is my understanding people used to not get on elevators that didn't have an operator. They were uncomfortable with the idea technology would work at the push of a button and keep them safe. They chose the stairs. But elevator operators are rare now, and I don't know anyone with such a fear.
It is also going to be hard to convince folks cars drive safer without a person behind the wheel. New technology will dominate the roads someday. That may not feel right. But it is logical.
The idea that vaccines and other medical technology will increasingly be created at faster rates may feel weird too.
1/Your 'perceiving' of my reasoning is incorrect actually. I don't believe I said "my God-given immune system is sufficient to protect me" My POV is that I'll 'run with what I've got' and not put made up suff into my body...at this stage anyways. 2/ I also did not 'infer' as is your 'assumption' that my God-given immune system would not stop me passing on the virus (neither does the covid jab btw)
3/ I am also not 'pushing my POV', you guys are, I'm not pushing anything except my thoughts/beliefs on what I am doing. Have I told ANYONE to NOT get the jab ? vs you and others telling me I should ! Just as bad as the bloody 'vegans' and 'climate change cultists'.
1.) Children with the virus are vectors. They spread the disease to others who can suffer severe disease and death. Remember Typhoid Mary? She unknowingly infected 53 people. Three of them died. She, herself, was asymptomatic.
2.) Children can appear to be unaffected, only to develop MIS-C weeks later. If left untreated, it can be life threatening. No one wants to knowingly subject their kids to that possibility.
3.) The risks you can face from getting the disease are greater than the risks from the vaccine. Pericarditis is a good example. Your chance of developing pericarditis from the disease, itself, is several times higher than from the vaccine.
All the vaccine does is teach the body's immune system what the virus looks like so when it sees it, it can launch an immune response. Your immune system does the heavy lifting, not the vaccine. You are correct when you say we don't know how long your immune system will fight off infection. Not enough time has passed to really know yet.
Immunity is multifaceted. When your body senses a foreign substance (virus), it begins to produce antibodies. Our bodies encounter foreign invaders all the time so they are constantly producing some form or other of antibodies. They are too numerous for your body to retain on a long term basis. That's why efficacy wanes. There is good news, though. Once your immune system knows what a particular virus looks like, it starts producing special cells (T-Cells and B-Cells) that are specifically tasked with sensing the presence of invaders and subsequently making a new batch of antibodies. People who were infected with SARS-1 in 2003 have long since lost any antibodies they developed. Recent tests, however, have revealed they still have at least some T and B cells, 18 years after the fact. SARS-1 is similar to the current SARS-2 that is causing Covid. With that in mind, it's reasonable to assume that some T and B cells for SARS-2 may last for years, as well. We don't know that for a fact, though, because not enough time has passed. In the meantime we can use the vaccine to tell the body to make T and B cells and keep the arsenal full just in case .
Unless you realise vaccinated people ALSO shed virus, you've missed the point, so that excuse for vaccinating kids is moot.
I'm thinking (not saying) that the hysteria and rhetoric around it and the 'group think' (similar to veganism and climate change fear porn stars) is resoundingly close to cultism.
I would agree a time a fear is a great opportunity for implementing social controls.
You know what's dangerously close to cultism? Denying what the experts in a given field say because you read an old piece of literature that convinces you that you know better.
Contrarianism, the belief that an iconoclastic view must be the correct view. THAT'S cultism.
The rejection of expertise in favor of "special knowledge."
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Bolshevik
This mRNA technology sounds like it's going to open the door to many new solutions, so that's fascinating. However, joining a cult like The Way is like a type of addiction. There is no vaccine e
Bolshevik
Nearly 7 out of 10 Americans have at least one dose. Nearly 6 out of 10 are fully vaccinated. Boosters are available for certain groups but not everyone at this time. Children 5 - 11 can be
Twinky
Going for my booster jab tomorrow. Yes, I believe God to keep me safe - and to keep others safe. I believe I have a great natural immune system, to which loads of fresh fruit and veg, exercise,
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Allan
Depends on who is doing the peer reviewing....The Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine says it is overly flawed and the Lancet says for the most part it's a joke...read it for yourself...
Peer review: a flawed process at the heart of science and journals (nih.gov)
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skyrider
As I've said before......we are IN THE EARLY STAGES OF LEARNING about Covid-19 and upcoming variants. To that end, there will be new methods, new pills, and new therapeutic treatments being introduced to the FDA, CDC, and general public. Medical doctors and institutions from around the world are engaged to find better solutions.
Pfizer is advancing in its experimental phase of a new antiviral pill for Covid-19.
Pfizer says COVID-19 pill cut hospital, death risks by 90%
***********
Pfizer Inc. said Friday that its experimental antiviral pill for COVID-19 cut rates of hospitalization and death by nearly 90% in high-risk adults, as the drug maker joined the race for an easy-to-use medication to treat the coronavirus.
Pfizer said it will ask the FDA and international regulators to authorize its pill as soon as possible, after independent experts recommended halting the company's study based on the strength of its results. Once Pfizer applies, the FDA could make a decision within weeks or months.
Since the beginning of the pandemic last year, researchers worldwide have been racing to find a pill to treat COVID-19 that can be taken at home to ease symptoms, speed recovery and keep people out of the hospital.
Having pills to treat early COVID-19 "would be a very important advance," said Dr. John Mellors, chief of infectious diseases at the University of Pittsburgh, who was not involved in the Pfizer study.
.......[snip]
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waysider
Fascinating. An opinion piece critiquing peer review.
Having children does not change whether something is true or not. It may, however, change how you perceive that truth. In other words, it may change your opinion .
Yes, Einstein had a controversial opinion. It was based on lots of hard work, calculation and data.
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waysider
This is great news if everything plays out. There are still parts of the world that don't have access to the vaccine for various reasons, such as logistical difficulties and lack of funds. This could be a real life saver if all goes to plan. In the meantime, our best tool available is the vaccine. We need to be getting as many people vaccinated as possible so there will be no need to treat the disease after it's already taken hold.
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Twinky
The UK has indeed approved a covid-19 pill just this week. And yes, at this stage IT IS EXPERIMENTAL. But it is expected to help in the recovery of people who already have the early signs of the illness - whether vaxed or not. It is not instead of the vaccine; it's not a preventive; it's to help those who have already got the illness.
Molnupiravir: First pill to treat Covid gets approval in UK - BBC News
As it's in its early stages and is still somewhat experimental, can we expect vax naysayers to refuse this new treatment? Because it's so new, hasn't been around long enough to be tested, etc? Just because it's not injected direct into the body doesn't mean that it won't have effects on the body (indeed, having effects is the very purpose!) or that it can't hurt the body. (Anti-Polio drugs, for example, aren't injected now; but taken orally but are just as effective.)
If the non-vaxed with the illness are offered this pill, it would be very hypocritical of them to accept it based, on the very arguments that they've used to avoid being jabbed.
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Twinky
Specially for you, Allan.
Covid-19 Australia: In the ICU where only Maria is vaccinated, others die in disbelief | Stuff.co.nz
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Allan
Great news alright ! Able to skip the vaccine and just have the pill if the bodies defences get overwhelmed.
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Allan
So was that professor of virology...the guy with children :)
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Allan
You appear to have very much developed the 'us' and 'them' mindset Twinks !! Why, may I ask, is that ? Is that perhaps because those who are against either the 'jab' or the 'mandate' to get it are opposed to your beliefs ? This is division, divisive tactics and many on here have escaped that type of attitude in a previous cult. Perhaps not 'everything' has been let go of ?The citizens are being divided into two camps...gee, almost like it was planned.
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waysider
Current numbers for Australia:
https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en
https://www.google.com/search?q=vaccination+australia&rlz=1C1CHWL_enUS850US850&oq=vaccination+australia&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i512l9.8255j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/australia/
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Twinky
Us and them, Allan? I simply do not understand why people refuse to do something that's pretty safe, costs nothing, and helps many. Most of those refusing have quite silly arguments, which do not stand up to close scrutiny or logical reasoning. I have heard caution, uncertainty, and can understand those people. I have also outright lies spouted as if they were absolute truth; those people I can't understand at all.
Is that a serious comment, or tongue in cheek? If serious, I really challenge you on this particular experimental technology, when you refuse other technology that is now proven to reduce risks.
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Allan
Twinky said " I simply do not understand why people refuse to do something that's pretty safe, costs nothing, and helps many. Most of those refusing have quite silly arguments, which do not stand up to close scrutiny or logical reasoning. I have heard caution, uncertainty, and can understand those people. I have also outright lies spouted as if they were absolute truth; those people I can't understand at all."
Your response is interesting. Perhaps it's the self and same reason whilst in twi we couldn't understand by people did not want the 'greatness of God's Word'- interested on your take on WHY we thought that and was it a valid mindset at the time ?
Those vehemently FOR covid vaccination, masks, mandates, isolation vs those AGAINST same...which one displays 'cultish' behavior ? According to John Juedes it's the former.
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Bolshevik
Are you saying getting the vaccine is equivalent or analogous to joining a cult?
Awhile ago you were bragging about your God-given immunity abilities. As predestination was involved.
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Twinky
Interesting??
Allan, you are pushing your PoV and pushing aside others' PoV. If you want people to understand your PoV, please express yourself in your own words as to why you have a different view.
As I perceive your reasoning, your "God-given immune system" is sufficient to protect you. (And, therefore, it presumably protects you from passing anything at all onto all those you come into contact with.) I am wondering if you have ever had a common cold (virus), sore throat (various causes), infection of any kind, fever, gyppy tummy, rubella, shingles (you're still a bit young for that), or any other thing wrong with you - or any of the people around you.
If you cut yourself, do you wash the injury with soap and water? Put a plaster on it? Or just leave it to your immune system to deal with the open wound?
Do you wash your hands before food preparation? Especially cold foods - salads? Or does, say, E.coli take one look at you and flee in terror, because of your immune system? (Somehow, I don't think so!)
It seems to me that the corollary of "I have a great immune system and therefore I won't get this disease badly" (you said you've already had it twice) is, for anyone who gets seriously ill (including your own loved ones): "You don't have a great immune system, and therefore you ..." - what? don't believe God? - which comes perilously close to victim-blaming. (LCM style: pointing finger, screaming at top of voice: "XYZ stepped out of God's hedge of protection!!!")
There are plenty of scientists, worldwide, who think something more than a God-given immune system is required. Some of those scientists are probably Christians, too.
And some of those who have died are Christians. Please don't blame them for having fallible human bodies. Heck, your own brother-in-law died of covid complications.
So. In your own words, why do you have a different view from the body of international scientists, clinicians, hospital workers, statisticians and suchlike? What can you say to convince me that these people are all wrong?
What can you say to convince my friend Rebecca, a nurse in ICU, a devout Christian, that what she sees with her own eyes - isn't true?
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Allan
1/Your 'perceiving' of my reasoning is incorrect actually. I don't believe I said "my God-given immune system is sufficient to protect me" My POV is that I'll 'run with what I've got' and not put made up suff into my body...at this stage anyways. 2/ I also did not 'infer' as is your 'assumption' that my God-given immune system would not stop me passing on the virus (neither does the covid jab btw)
3/ I am also not 'pushing my POV', you guys are, I'm not pushing anything except my thoughts/beliefs on what I am doing. Have I told ANYONE to NOT get the jab ? vs you and others telling me I should !
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Allan
I'm thinking (not saying) that the hysteria and rhetoric around it and the 'group think' is resoundingly close to cultism.
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Rocky
You might think so, but you haven't made a cogent (or sound or rational or logical) argument to that effect.
You have led me to question what, ultimately, your objective might be for your bickering on this thread.
As to your dismissive retort "Einstein" when I pointed out the awkwardness of your cherry picking, I would suggest that Professor Einstein's theories and rumination were most definitely not putting ANYbody in danger of death by pandemic. Therefore, your retort is even more awkward and out of place than otherwise apparent.
Cheers dude.
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skyrider
Thanks Allan......for stating your position.
THiS is what a *discussion forum* is all about. Something that twi NEVER allowed.
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waysider
You're still missing the point, Allan.
1.) Children with the virus are vectors. They spread the disease to others who can suffer severe disease and death. Remember Typhoid Mary? She unknowingly infected 53 people. Three of them died. She, herself, was asymptomatic.
2.) Children can appear to be unaffected, only to develop MIS-C weeks later. If left untreated, it can be life threatening. No one wants to knowingly subject their kids to that possibility.
3.) The risks you can face from getting the disease are greater than the risks from the vaccine. Pericarditis is a good example. Your chance of developing pericarditis from the disease, itself, is several times higher than from the vaccine.
All the vaccine does is teach the body's immune system what the virus looks like so when it sees it, it can launch an immune response. Your immune system does the heavy lifting, not the vaccine. You are correct when you say we don't know how long your immune system will fight off infection. Not enough time has passed to really know yet.
Immunity is multifaceted. When your body senses a foreign substance (virus), it begins to produce antibodies. Our bodies encounter foreign invaders all the time so they are constantly producing some form or other of antibodies. They are too numerous for your body to retain on a long term basis. That's why efficacy wanes. There is good news, though. Once your immune system knows what a particular virus looks like, it starts producing special cells (T-Cells and B-Cells) that are specifically tasked with sensing the presence of invaders and subsequently making a new batch of antibodies. People who were infected with SARS-1 in 2003 have long since lost any antibodies they developed. Recent tests, however, have revealed they still have at least some T and B cells, 18 years after the fact. SARS-1 is similar to the current SARS-2 that is causing Covid. With that in mind, it's reasonable to assume that some T and B cells for SARS-2 may last for years, as well. We don't know that for a fact, though, because not enough time has passed. In the meantime we can use the vaccine to tell the body to make T and B cells and keep the arsenal full just in case .
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Bolshevik
It is my understanding people used to not get on elevators that didn't have an operator. They were uncomfortable with the idea technology would work at the push of a button and keep them safe. They chose the stairs. But elevator operators are rare now, and I don't know anyone with such a fear.
It is also going to be hard to convince folks cars drive safer without a person behind the wheel. New technology will dominate the roads someday. That may not feel right. But it is logical.
The idea that vaccines and other medical technology will increasingly be created at faster rates may feel weird too.
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Twinky
What Skyrider said. Hope that calms things down a bit, all round.
I don't agree with your decision, but I respect it if that is your basis. Your choice.
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Allan
Unless you realise vaccinated people ALSO shed virus, you've missed the point, so that excuse for vaccinating kids is moot.
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Bolshevik
I would agree a time a fear is a great opportunity for implementing social controls.
Edited by BolshevikDeleted video
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Raf
Of all the...
You know what's dangerously close to cultism? Denying what the experts in a given field say because you read an old piece of literature that convinces you that you know better.
Contrarianism, the belief that an iconoclastic view must be the correct view. THAT'S cultism.
The rejection of expertise in favor of "special knowledge."
That's cultism.
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