This is an opinion piece. Professor Curtis produces no hard data whatsoever to support his opinion. Reread the article. It even presents data that refutes his position.
I don't understand why "not dying" has suddenly become the gold standard for safety. Plenty of other things can happen besides dying, such as organ damage, long lasting symptoms, and transmission to others who may have their lives put in jeopardy by exposure to this disease, as well as opportunities for the virus to mutate to forms that may be more transmissible and/or dangerous. It even says that "Dozens of scientists and children's doctors disagree with Professor Curtis and say vaccinating children is urgent.".
Additionally, journalists typically do not write their own headlines. That's an editor's job. Headlines are a marketing tool, designed to entice the reader to further investigate. Sometimes the headline is a valid representation of what the journalist is saying and sometimes it is not. It's a real problem in our information saturated culture. People tend to read the headline and skip the article. That's never a safe approach. Editors can intentionally manipulate a headline to persuade the reader to reach a false conclusion.
The jury is not "out" on this, as Professor Curtis would have us believe.. The vaccine is safe and effective for kids. Lots and lots of data supports that stance. The sooner we all get on board, the sooner we can return to at least some level of normalcy.
Haven't read thru all 6 pages of this thread........but has this been discussed? Is this information true? Is this happening in other countries around the world?
I think some people use the term "God Given" to mean you were born with an immune system to fight off pathogens. The problem with SARS-2, though, is that if you have never had previous exposure to the virus, your immune system has no idea what it is. (That's why it's call "novel".) It can't instantly launch a counter attack because it doesn't have a memory of having seen it before. That's where the vaccine comes in. It teaches the immune system what to look for without making you vulnerable to serious disease or death like a natural infection would.
I think some people use the term "God Given" to mean you were born with an immune system to fight off pathogens. The problem with SARS-2, though, is that if you have never had previous exposure to the virus, your immune system has no idea what it is. (That's why it's call "novel".) It can't instantly launch a counter attack because it doesn't have a memory of having seen it before. That's where the vaccine comes in. It teaches the immune system what to look for without making you vulnerable to serious disease or death like a natural infection would.
"God-given" word associates with "rights" in my mind. Maybe there is more to it.
Immunity can be used as a biological weapon as has been done, intentionally and unintentiolly, in the past. Such as with Native Americans.
I'm assuming most modern individuals have a basic understanding of how the immune system and vaccines work. If we understand something we understand that it can be turned into a weapon.
Anytime there is a threat to life of any sort - freedoms are often sacrificed to deal with it. This can be reasonable or unreasonable.
I tend to think some see a greater threat than the virus. But can't say what it is.
Like when I mentioned helmets earlier because we have skulls?
I think this is a safety/comfort vs freedom argument. What the hell does god-given mean?
Yes the vaccine will save lives.
Your statements brought to mind a couple of things.
From the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
And something I read in an article that redefines the “safety/comfort vs freedom argument” as more like a working relationship or well-balanced formula:
“People who say that freedom and safety have no correlations, and that safety is more important than freedom or freedom is more important that safety, have not considered it’s daily applications. In society today, people demand both freedom and safety. While more and more Americans demand freedom to do things as they please, they want the feeling of protection and safety.
Safety is needed when more freedom is given. An example of this lies in our homes. As children have later curfews as they grow older, their parents demand for more of their own protection for their children. Ultimately, curfews are reasonable guidelines and should be followed. It is important to maintain respect for your parents and the rules they set throughout your adolescent years. “While it may seem unfair or unreasonable at the time, you will eventually realize how beneficial such rules were and will thank your parents for looking out for your well-being. ” (Why Curfews Should Be Enforced).
This correlation is evidence that with more freedom, people need more safety to keep them in check and to keep people in line. Freedom in this case cannot exist without the need for safety and safety is not necessary if there is no freedom. Freedom and safety are desired by everyone. However, unlike popular belief, they cannot be separated. Like a well-balanced formula, freedom and safety intertwine in a well-defined system. In this contemporary society, freedom is important for the liberties of the people; however, safety is important for the security of the people. Both freedom and safety are important factors for people today.”
I'm assuming most modern individuals have a basic understanding of how the immune system and vaccines work
Are you sure about that? It seems to me that an awful lot of people still can't comprehend the concept that your immune system, no matter how strong it might be, does not automatically launch an antibody response to a novel virus the first time it's encountered.
50 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:
I tend to think some see a greater threat than the virus. But can't say what it is.
People see that there is a risk of pericarditis from the vaccine and neglect to recognize that the virus, itself, presents a risk of pericarditis that is several times greater.
Bolshe, when I use the term 'God-given' to me it impies "God has worked in a situation to bring a good, godly result" as in, when the first pilgrims arrived in America and were starving, the American Indians came and helped them by showing what grew, when and where etc...hence the term 'Thanksgiving'....I'm surprised an 'Aussie' knows more about a national holiday than an American !! Thanksgiving Day | Meaning, History, & Facts | Britannica
Bolshe, when I use the term 'God-given' to me it impies "God has worked in a situation to bring a good, godly result" as in, when the first pilgrims arrived in America and were starving, the American Indians came and helped them by showing what grew, when and where etc...hence the term 'Thanksgiving'....I'm surprised an 'Aussie' knows more about a national holiday than an American !! Thanksgiving Day | Meaning, History, & Facts | Britannica
This is a teleological viewpoint.
Did you know the pilgrims didn't invite the Natives to share in the harvest? The Natives heard gunfire and came running and were like, oh, you're having a party without us? BYOB, we get it.
Are you sure about that? It seems to me that an awful lot of people still can't comprehend the concept that your immune system, no matter how strong it might be, does not automatically launch an antibody response to a novel virus the first time it's encountered.
People see that there is a risk of pericarditis from the vaccine and neglect to recognize that the virus, itself, presents a risk of pericarditis that is several times greater.
This is an opinion piece. Professor Curtis produces no hard data whatsoever to support his opinion. Reread the article. It even presents data that refutes his position.
I don't understand why "not dying" has suddenly become the gold standard for safety. Plenty of other things can happen besides dying, such as organ damage, long lasting symptoms, and transmission to others who may have their lives put in jeopardy by exposure to this disease, as well as opportunities for the virus to mutate to forms that may be more transmissible and/or dangerous. It even says that "Dozens of scientists and children's doctors disagree with Professor Curtis and say vaccinating children is urgent.".
Additionally, journalists typically do not write their own headlines. That's an editor's job. Headlines are a marketing tool, designed to entice the reader to further investigate. Sometimes the headline is a valid representation of what the journalist is saying and sometimes it is not. It's a real problem in our information saturated culture. People tend to read the headline and skip the article. That's never a safe approach. Editors can intentionally manipulate a headline to persuade the reader to reach a false conclusion.
The jury is not "out" on this, as Professor Curtis would have us believe.. The vaccine is safe and effective for kids. Lots and lots of data supports that stance. The sooner we all get on board, the sooner we can return to at least some level of normalcy.
"the sooner we all get on board we can......" perhaps it IS true, many pro covid vaxxers really motivated more by $$...back to work and other 'selfish' motivations ??
This is an opinion piece. Professor Curtis produces no hard data whatsoever to support his opinion. Reread the article. It even presents data that refutes his position.
I don't understand why "not dying" has suddenly become the gold standard for safety. Plenty of other things can happen besides dying, such as organ damage, long lasting symptoms, and transmission to others who may have their lives put in jeopardy by exposure to this disease, as well as opportunities for the virus to mutate to forms that may be more transmissible and/or dangerous. It even says that "Dozens of scientists and children's doctors disagree with Professor Curtis and say vaccinating children is urgent.".
Additionally, journalists typically do not write their own headlines. That's an editor's job. Headlines are a marketing tool, designed to entice the reader to further investigate. Sometimes the headline is a valid representation of what the journalist is saying and sometimes it is not. It's a real problem in our information saturated culture. People tend to read the headline and skip the article. That's never a safe approach. Editors can intentionally manipulate a headline to persuade the reader to reach a false conclusion.
The jury is not "out" on this, as Professor Curtis would have us believe.. The vaccine is safe and effective for kids. Lots and lots of data supports that stance. The sooner we all get on board, the sooner we can return to at least some level of normalcy.
aaahhh...an opinion piece...by a more than qualified expert in THE field....but doesn't fit YOUR opinion, YOUR narrative...o.k. good one lol
you appear to frequently use the phrase 'just an opinion piece'....when (as I said earlier post) it does not fit YOUR opinion, YOUR narrative....and you know MORE than these professionals and journalists ? shame on YOU !!
you appear to frequently use the phrase 'just an opinion piece'....when (as I said earlier post) it does not fit YOUR opinion, YOUR narrative....and you know MORE than these professionals and journalists ? shame on YOU !!
Allan, do you understand what an opinion piece is? I'm beginning to wonder.
Yes, it's an ...opinion piece, often based on observation of reports, publications, first hand experience etc...the question for me is "would I be prepared to consider the opinion of an EXPERT in the VERY FIELD we are dicussing ? My answer would be YES (and especially as this medical expert does indeed have...children) I really wonder how many 'experts' in the field of virus immunology actually have children !
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Bolshevik
This mRNA technology sounds like it's going to open the door to many new solutions, so that's fascinating. However, joining a cult like The Way is like a type of addiction. There is no vaccine e
Bolshevik
Nearly 7 out of 10 Americans have at least one dose. Nearly 6 out of 10 are fully vaccinated. Boosters are available for certain groups but not everyone at this time. Children 5 - 11 can be
Twinky
Going for my booster jab tomorrow. Yes, I believe God to keep me safe - and to keep others safe. I believe I have a great natural immune system, to which loads of fresh fruit and veg, exercise,
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Allan
And just to keep everything fair minded, transparent, debatable and honest heres another article.
Professor reveals he wouldn't give his children the Covid vaccine yet (msn.com)
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waysider
This is an opinion piece. Professor Curtis produces no hard data whatsoever to support his opinion. Reread the article. It even presents data that refutes his position.
I don't understand why "not dying" has suddenly become the gold standard for safety. Plenty of other things can happen besides dying, such as organ damage, long lasting symptoms, and transmission to others who may have their lives put in jeopardy by exposure to this disease, as well as opportunities for the virus to mutate to forms that may be more transmissible and/or dangerous. It even says that "Dozens of scientists and children's doctors disagree with Professor Curtis and say vaccinating children is urgent.".
Additionally, journalists typically do not write their own headlines. That's an editor's job. Headlines are a marketing tool, designed to entice the reader to further investigate. Sometimes the headline is a valid representation of what the journalist is saying and sometimes it is not. It's a real problem in our information saturated culture. People tend to read the headline and skip the article. That's never a safe approach. Editors can intentionally manipulate a headline to persuade the reader to reach a false conclusion.
The jury is not "out" on this, as Professor Curtis would have us believe.. The vaccine is safe and effective for kids. Lots and lots of data supports that stance. The sooner we all get on board, the sooner we can return to at least some level of normalcy.
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skyrider
Haven't read thru all 6 pages of this thread........but has this been discussed? Is this information true? Is this happening in other countries around the world?
Italian Institute of Health Drastically Reduces Its Official Covid Death Toll Number
The following was added by Modgellan-
Skyrider asked if the information in his link was true. The answer is NO.
https://factcheck.afp.com/http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.afp.com%2F9QZ8JW-1
Edited by ModgellanPasted content from the original link was removed since fact check sites have determined it to be false
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waysider
That's just crazy.
Q. How do patients with serious Covid die?
A. The infection advances to pneumonia and they drown in their own fluid.
You might as well say they didn't die from Covid, they just died from drowning.
edit: "...this is really just an opinion piece where the author is poking fun at the NIH while trying to make a point about the risks of Covid."
So it's poking fun at this NIH report.
Talk about up being down and down being up.
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Bolshevik
There's a covid pill now.
No need for the vaccine.
(Still wondering about God-given meaning)
Edited by BolshevikI hate pills
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waysider
We have orthopedic surgeons now. There's no longer a need to look both ways when crossing the street.
Hey, fun fact!
Know what other disease is largely asymptomatic (90-95%)?
Polio
Yeah, that's right. Why bother getting the Polio vaccine? Take a chance on herd immunity. What could go wrong?
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Bolshevik
Like when I mentioned helmets earlier because we have skulls?
I think this is a safety/comfort vs freedom argument. What the hell does god-given mean?
Yes the vaccine will save lives.
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waysider
I think some people use the term "God Given" to mean you were born with an immune system to fight off pathogens. The problem with SARS-2, though, is that if you have never had previous exposure to the virus, your immune system has no idea what it is. (That's why it's call "novel".) It can't instantly launch a counter attack because it doesn't have a memory of having seen it before. That's where the vaccine comes in. It teaches the immune system what to look for without making you vulnerable to serious disease or death like a natural infection would.
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Bolshevik
"God-given" word associates with "rights" in my mind. Maybe there is more to it.
Immunity can be used as a biological weapon as has been done, intentionally and unintentiolly, in the past. Such as with Native Americans.
I'm assuming most modern individuals have a basic understanding of how the immune system and vaccines work. If we understand something we understand that it can be turned into a weapon.
Anytime there is a threat to life of any sort - freedoms are often sacrificed to deal with it. This can be reasonable or unreasonable.
I tend to think some see a greater threat than the virus. But can't say what it is.
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T-Bone
Your statements brought to mind a couple of things.
From the Declaration of Independence:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
And something I read in an article that redefines the “safety/comfort vs freedom argument” as more like a working relationship or well-balanced formula:
“People who say that freedom and safety have no correlations, and that safety is more important than freedom or freedom is more important that safety, have not considered it’s daily applications. In society today, people demand both freedom and safety. While more and more Americans demand freedom to do things as they please, they want the feeling of protection and safety.
Safety is needed when more freedom is given. An example of this lies in our homes. As children have later curfews as they grow older, their parents demand for more of their own protection for their children. Ultimately, curfews are reasonable guidelines and should be followed. It is important to maintain respect for your parents and the rules they set throughout your adolescent years. “While it may seem unfair or unreasonable at the time, you will eventually realize how beneficial such rules were and will thank your parents for looking out for your well-being. ” (Why Curfews Should Be Enforced).
This correlation is evidence that with more freedom, people need more safety to keep them in check and to keep people in line. Freedom in this case cannot exist without the need for safety and safety is not necessary if there is no freedom. Freedom and safety are desired by everyone. However, unlike popular belief, they cannot be separated. Like a well-balanced formula, freedom and safety intertwine in a well-defined system. In this contemporary society, freedom is important for the liberties of the people; however, safety is important for the security of the people. Both freedom and safety are important factors for people today.”
excerpts from PHD Essay safety versus freedom
Edited by T-Bonetypos and formatting
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waysider
Are you sure about that? It seems to me that an awful lot of people still can't comprehend the concept that your immune system, no matter how strong it might be, does not automatically launch an antibody response to a novel virus the first time it's encountered.
People see that there is a risk of pericarditis from the vaccine and neglect to recognize that the virus, itself, presents a risk of pericarditis that is several times greater.
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Allan
Bolshe, when I use the term 'God-given' to me it impies "God has worked in a situation to bring a good, godly result" as in, when the first pilgrims arrived in America and were starving, the American Indians came and helped them by showing what grew, when and where etc...hence the term 'Thanksgiving'....I'm surprised an 'Aussie' knows more about a national holiday than an American !!
Thanksgiving Day | Meaning, History, & Facts | Britannica
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Bolshevik
This is a teleological viewpoint.
Did you know the pilgrims didn't invite the Natives to share in the harvest? The Natives heard gunfire and came running and were like, oh, you're having a party without us? BYOB, we get it.
Edited by BolshevikHit reply 86,346 times
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Bolshevik
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/11/30/salary/
I think a lot of folks simply play dumb.
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waysider
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Twinky
You mean, like scientists working their God-given mental abilities devising effective vaccines?
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Allan
some...and others maybe influenced by other ...shall we say...'entities'....
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Allan
"the sooner we all get on board we can......" perhaps it IS true, many pro covid vaxxers really motivated more by $$...back to work and other 'selfish' motivations ??
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Allan
aaahhh...an opinion piece...by a more than qualified expert in THE field....but doesn't fit YOUR opinion, YOUR narrative...o.k. good one lol
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Allan
you appear to frequently use the phrase 'just an opinion piece'....when (as I said earlier post) it does not fit YOUR opinion, YOUR narrative....and you know MORE than these professionals and journalists ? shame on YOU !!
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waysider
Allan, do you understand what an opinion piece is? I'm beginning to wonder.
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Rocky
Do you grasp the concept of "cherry picking?"
Edited by RockyYOUR professional's opinion is diametrically opposed to the overwhelming majority of experts in the specific field in question...
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Allan
Yes, it's an ...opinion piece, often based on observation of reports, publications, first hand experience etc...the question for me is "would I be prepared to consider the opinion of an EXPERT in the VERY FIELD we are dicussing ? My answer would be YES (and especially as this medical expert does indeed have...children) I really wonder how many 'experts' in the field of virus immunology actually have children !
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Allan
So was Einstein :)
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