In retrospect: speculation about share prices is meaningless.
Bottom line: the covid-19 vaccines save lives.
Yes ! I Googled “do statistics show that the covid vaccine save lives?” and got quite a few hits – the first one quantifies the lives saved and even gives an economic value to it:
According to National Institutes of Health study mentioned in an October 2021 of Psychiatric Times:
“Covid-19 vaccines have so far reduced the number of fatalities that would have occurred due to the disease by about 140,000. The study researchers examined data from between December 21, 2020, and May 9, 2021, to assess the impact of state-level vaccination campaigns. The investigators compared the amount of time each state took to reach a series of milestones, beginning with 5 doses per 100 adults and escalating to 120 doses per 100 adults. They also calculated the number of vaccine doses per 100 adults at the end of each week.
The researchers found that COVID-19 vaccines prevented more than 139,000 deaths during the first 5 months they were available. Although 570,000 Americans died due to COVID-19 through the study period, the researchers’ model projected that there would have been 709,000 deaths without the vaccine.
“The researchers found that COVID-19 vaccines prevented more than 139,000 deaths during the first 5 months they were available.”
In addition, the investigators estimated that the economic value of saving these lives was between $625 billion and $1.4 trillion.
Another question I Googled was “did people question or doubt the smallpox vaccine like they do the covid-19 vaccine?” and found this stuff:
"History Does Repeat: Pandemic Vaccine Uproar Is Nothing New…
Oct. 14, 2021 -- Even as the fourth wave of COVID-19 cases trends downward, one aspect of the pandemic remains strong: differing opinions on the value of COVID-19 immunization and vaccine mandates across the U.S.
Strong feelings around vaccination are nothing new. Claims that link the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine to autism and opposition to measles vaccination that triggered outbreaks in California are recent examples.
People who were against smallpox immunizations, for example, ran advertisements, wrote to newspapers, and formed anti-vaccine organizations, as seen in news clippings from the 1860s to the 1950s.
In other words, although the furor over vaccines feels like a modern experience, disagreements throughout history reveal many similarities.
"There are a lot of parallels -- many of the same exact arguments," says Anna Kirkland, PhD, director of the Institute for Research on Women and Gender at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor.
In this etching from 1808, vaccine pioneer Edward Jenner, at right in blue, tries to convince vaccination opponents to get the smallpox shot.
"Some of the differences now are the stark political alignments by party that we see under COVID, which were there in some ways before but became very prominently organized by party," she says. "Those are only differences of degree, though, because there has long been an anti-government backing of anti-vaccine sentiments."
For example, the Anti-Vaccination Society of America was founded in 1879. Its public campaign against mandatory smallpox vaccination used wording about personal freedoms that might sound familiar today: "Liberty cannot be given, it must be taken."
The society was part of a larger movement that also questioned the motives behind promotion of the smallpox vaccine.
"The anti-vaccination movement questioned the data released by health authorities, and accused politicians, doctors and pharmaceutical companies of conspiring to act on their economic interests rather than health considerations," notes MyHeritage, which maintains an archive of pro- and anti-vaccine news clippings.
"For this reason -- and because MyHeritage has access to billions of historical records, including newspaper clippings -- it was natural for us to check the newspaper archives, to try and make sense of today's significant vaccination debate," says Roi Mandel, lead researcher at MyHeritage.
Other historians point out that the anti-vaccination movement in the U.S. got its start in the 1850s with the announcement of smallpox vaccine mandates.
"Much of that movement was predicated on widespread concern about the safety of smallpox vaccine, as well as a belief that vaccination laws were 'a tyrannical violation of individual liberty,' wrote Joseph B. Domachowske and Manika Suryadevara, both MDs, in a 2013 report in Human Vaccines & Immunotherapeutics.
"Unfortunately, the anti-vaccination activism helped bring about a significant decline in immunization rates, resulting in the re-emergence of smallpox just a couple of decades later," they said.”
from: WEB MD vaccine opposition not new
T-Bone's disclaimer: I firmly believe Blockbuster's friendly reminder to be kind and rewind is still applicable in this age of digital media and streaming services.
Look in particular at the sidebar at left. You will see "Vaccinations" and "Death." Although they do not correlate exactly, you can see that Deaths have declined markedly, as the number of people vaccinated has risen.
FYI "Deaths" is deaths for any reason within 28 days of a +ve coronavirus test. So a death would be included even if a person had been run over by a bus, charged by a cow, stabbed by a burglar, or fell off a ladder, and died - if they'd tested positive within 28 days. Bit nuts really, but you can see the trend.
Got it done! Pfizer (first two were AstraZeneca). All well - my arm isn't even sore where stabbed!
wife, daughter and I got our Moderna booster shot late afternoon ...no soreness...then we went to Hopdoddy for the most delicious mushroom, bacon, cheese burger and parmesan fries !
My wif' and I both have gotten the Moderna Vax, both doses. No real side effects, kind of a hit of floozy feelings for a few hours after the second one, but that was it. We both got the Booster for it, same thing, no biggie.
I get flu shots every year for years now, I've always been pretty susceptible to colds and flu and those vaccinations helped a lot since I started. I had a serious round of Pneumonia in the 90's, I got within 48 hours of making hand puppets with Jim Hanson, I waited so long to drag my ass into Emergency. I've been careful since.
All of those things aren't the same kinds of things but in my lifestyle they're related and connected, so I treat them seriously as part of the same health concerns. For years I've used a disinfectant when I go in and out of public shopping stores, the big box ones, "Wal Mart", all those. I'm careful about sneezing into a kleenex and avoiding people when they're snorting and sneezing all over the place in public, using doors, handles, knobs, picking thing up in public places, etc. It's all gross, seeing how many people treat personal hygiene. So I was in this whole clean thing long before this virus stuff started and frankly I don't mind the world being a little cleaner out there.
People that want to tell me I don' need to do that, don't get vaxed, I shouldn't do that, am wrong for doing that, can - how does it go in the original greek...? they can get fukked. Seriously, if I had a buck for every self proclaimed expert telling me what to do I'd have a barrel of bucks. I have no lack of expert sure fire opinion either way I want to go.
I've read up on what's going on as much as I feel the need to, I see the different sides to the issues, blah blah blah. I prefer to treat all of this as an individual's choice. That's how I treat it. I don't have all the answers and I don't expect others to either. I'm not going to hate someone because they don't want to get a vaccine or because they get one or because they're not sure. If I can help with my own incredibly insightful expert opinion I'd suggest - see a doctor, make sure of any exceptional conditions you might have that would make a difference and then go with the best you know and sure, get vaccinated. But if you don't, that's fine too, in my world.
I know that's not how the government is handling it across the country and it sucks and is difficult for everyone whether we're for this or against that or whatever. But I try to take the high road as much as possible and do what I can to help others with what they need and this is the best I know to do now.
All good, I just wanted to see if I could get Rocky to cuss bahahaha...on a serious note though...I'm still VERY sceptical...for a plethora of reasons ! Firstly the NIH has flip flopped on a number of statements, i.e. mask wearing not helpful, then next minute it is. Then it isn't. Is this the same NIH btw that has finally admitted they WERE funding 'gain of function' at Wuhan ?? Also, virtually NO cases of healthy kids under 16 dying or even getting seriously ill from Covid....now after much urging from the drug companies they are going to 'immunize' (closed colons intended) 5 year olds and over....hello, now they're pushing for babies...I smell $$$$...as Dan Bongino says "follow the money trail" !!
Covid deaths, as Twinky mentioned, are way over inflated. At least the authorities have been honest enough to admit that if someone has Covid antibodies when they are killed in a car crash or falling off a ladder or (more likely) shot by someone in New York whilst eating a Big Mac IT IS LISTED AS A COVID DEATH.
I really am surprised how many GS'ers have such healthy scepticism for anything called church/fellowship yet sprint towards something the Government is saying is good and right for you ??!! Wasn't it Ronald Reagan that famously said " There are nine words coming out of a bureaucrats mouth that ought to send chills up your spine.... I'm from the government and I'm here to help"
All good, I just wanted to see if I could get Rocky to cuss bahahaha...on a serious note though...I'm still VERY sceptical...for a plethora of reasons ! Firstly the NIH has flip flopped on a number of statements, i.e. mask wearing not helpful, then next minute it is. Then it isn't. Is this the same NIH btw that has finally admitted they WERE funding 'gain of function' at Wuhan ?? Also, virtually NO cases of healthy kids under 16 dying or even getting seriously ill from Covid....now after much urging from the drug companies they are going to 'immunize' (closed colons intended) 5 year olds and over....hello, now they're pushing for babies...I smell $$$$...as Dan Bongino says "follow the money trail" !!
Covid deaths, as Twinky mentioned, are way over inflated. At least the authorities have been honest enough to admit that if someone has Covid antibodies when they are killed in a car crash or falling off a ladder or (more likely) shot by someone in New York whilst eating a Big Mac IT IS LISTED AS A COVID DEATH.
I really am surprised how many GS'ers have such healthy scepticism for anything called church/fellowship yet sprint towards something the Government is saying is good and right for you ??!! Wasn't it Ronald Reagan that famously said " There are nine words coming out of a bureaucrats mouth that ought to send chills up your spine.... I'm from the government and I'm here to help"
My wif' and I both have gotten the Moderna Vax, both doses. No real side effects, kind of a hit of floozy feelings for a few hours after the second one, but that was it. We both got the Booster for it, same thing, no biggie.
I get flu shots every year for years now, I've always been pretty susceptible to colds and flu and those vaccinations helped a lot since I started. I had a serious round of Pneumonia in the 90's, I got within 48 hours of making hand puppets with Jim Hanson, I waited so long to drag my foot into Emergency. I've been careful since.
All of those things aren't the same kinds of things but in my lifestyle they're related and connected, so I treat them seriously as part of the same health concerns. For years I've used a disinfectant when I go in and out of public shopping stores, the big box ones, "Wal Mart", all those. I'm careful about sneezing into a kleenex and avoiding people when they're snorting and sneezing all over the place in public, using doors, handles, knobs, picking thing up in public places, etc. It's all gross, seeing how many people treat personal hygiene. So I was in this whole clean thing long before this virus stuff started and frankly I don't mind the world being a little cleaner out there.
People that want to tell me I don' need to do that, don't get vaxed, I shouldn't do that, am wrong for doing that, can - how does it go in the original greek...? they can get fukked. Seriously, if I had a buck for every self proclaimed expert telling me what to do I'd have a barrel of bucks. I have no lack of expert sure fire opinion either way I want to go.
I've read up on what's going on as much as I feel the need to, I see the different sides to the issues, blah blah blah. I prefer to treat all of this as an individual's choice. That's how I treat it. I don't have all the answers and I don't expect others to either. I'm not going to hate someone because they don't want to get a vaccine or because they get one or because they're not sure. If I can help with my own incredibly insightful expert opinion I'd suggest - see a doctor, make sure of any exceptional conditions you might have that would make a difference and then go with the best you know and sure, get vaccinated. But if you don't, that's fine too, in my world.
I know that's not how the government is handling it across the country and it sucks and is difficult for everyone whether we're for this or against that or whatever. But I try to take the high road as much as possible and do what I can to help others with what they need and this is the best I know to do now.
PEACE!
I agree, no-one should be telling you to NOT get vaxxed...just wish people would reciprocate and NOT tell others they SHOULD get vaxxed !! I think that's pretty reasonable doncha thunk ??...and don't hit me with that "it's your moral duty so you don't give it to others" FFS if they've been vaccinated they're PROTECTED right ??!! And vaccinated still shed virus too don't they.....and let's not split hairs over how many micromils of virus vaccinated vs non-vaccinated shed :)
Wasn't it Ronald Reagan that famously said " There are nine words coming out of a bureaucrats mouth that ought to send chills up your spine.... I'm from the government and I'm here to help"
My daughter has made arrangements for my school age grandkiddos to get their first covid vax within the next two weeks and jab #2 three weeks later. She's thrilled and so am I.
just wish people would reciprocate and NOT tell others they SHOULD get vaxxed !! I think that's pretty reasonable doncha thunk ??...and don't hit me with that "it's your moral duty so you don't give it to others"
From a public health perspective, we ALL have the right and duty to encourage friends and family to get the covid 19 vax.
History makes it very clear it's the right thing to do.
I agree, no-one should be telling you to NOT get vaxxed...just wish people would reciprocate and NOT tell others they SHOULD get vaxxed !! I think that's pretty reasonable doncha thunk ??...and don't hit me with that "it's your moral duty so you don't give it to others" FFS if they've been vaccinated they're PROTECTED right ??!! And vaccinated still shed virus too don't they.....and let's not split hairs over how many micromils of virus vaccinated vs non-vaccinated shed :)
I dont care what you do, on a certain level. On another I care a lot. Either way I’d prefer to make my own decisions. If I get to, so do you. So when I’m King Dog of the Universe and running things we’ll get along great.
Ive managed to live as I see fit without having any issues. The week California closed down last year I drove an RV for 10 hours on a major freeway, got gas, food, used rest rooms, and visited family for a week in another city in another county. No problems at all. I slipped the stupid little mask on when I was in public places gassing up, and sanitized as I went. Easy. 99% of the trip I didn’t wear a mask but in those few situations where I knew someone would have a shit fit if I didn’t I did. The whole thing is such a minor concern to me, either way, I refuse to get in a twist, I just try to do the sensible thing snd get on with what I’m really trying to do.
Covid deaths, as Twinky mentioned, are way over inflated.
I did not say that, Allan. I said, deaths for any reason within 28 days of a positive covid test.
There are other deaths outside 28 days that can be attributed to covid, where someone has been hospitalised / in ICU for a while.
And I invited you to look at the correlation between vaccination (rising fast) and deaths (falling fast). It's plain for anyone to see that there's a huge reduction in the number of deaths, hospitalisations etc, in the vaccinated cohort.
All medical staff will tell you that the hospitalised ones in the most serious condition are UNvaccinated. ICU is stuffed with naysayers. It's accepted that some vaxed people, those with particular susceptibilities, may get covid but not as severely.
I did not say that, Allan. I said, deaths for any reason within 28 days of a positive covid test.
There are other deaths outside 28 days that can be attributed to covid, where someone has been hospitalised / in ICU for a while.
And I invited you to look at the correlation between vaccination (rising fast) and deaths (falling fast). It's plain for anyone to see that there's a huge reduction in the number of deaths, hospitalisations etc, in the vaccinated cohort.
All medical staff will tell you that the hospitalised ones in the most serious condition are UNvaccinated. ICU is stuffed with naysayers. It's accepted that some vaxed people, those with particular susceptibilities, may get covid but not as severely.
Here in Australia, the state of Victoria had 25 deaths from covid in one day. The state Premier was hard pressed by a journalist to divulge of the 25, how many were vaccinated...He refused to answer. He is the type of person that if none of them had been vaccinated he would have been shouting it from the roof tops....as someone said "I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm a things aren't adding up the way they should theorist" :)
I agree, no-one should be telling you to NOT get vaxxed...just wish people would reciprocate and NOT tell others they SHOULD get vaxxed !! I think that's pretty reasonable doncha thunk ??...and don't hit me with that "it's your moral duty so you don't give it to others" FFS if they've been vaccinated they're PROTECTED right ??!! And vaccinated still shed virus too don't they.....and let's not split hairs over how many micromils of virus vaccinated vs non-vaccinated shed :)
I remember when this all started and toilet paper suddenly became a scare commodity. I waited outside the grocery store for half an hour to get diapers or something and then this line starts to form. Everyone has to get six feet a apart and all. I get in line and these this lady starts yelling loud how I've cut her in line and then this other lady shows up out of nowhere and starts yelling I need to social distance more and then the other tells her thank you and they both give verbal high fives cause they are saving lives by screaming at strangers for no reason. I never said a word and just moved further back in line even though I was there way before the screamers. Not like anyone died for their freedom to screem.
Allan, you are not skeptical for a plethora of reasons. You are skeptical for a plethora of excuses, the overwhelming majority of them stupid.
Your reasoning is unintelligent. I'm not saying YOU are. Your REASONING is faulty beyond repair. "If the vaccine works, why the mandates?" Jesus, man, because dozens of vaccines are mandated for all sorts of reasons, and it has been so since George Washington MANDATED the smallpox vaccine during the Revolutionary War. Commie socialist unAmerican freedom hater that he was.
"Now, I'm not saying people should be forced to play in traffic. But I just wish people would reciprocate and not tell me I can't play in traffic."
Dude, they're not equivalent positions! I hope they "force" this vaccine on everyone the same way they did smallpox and chicken pox and measles and mumps and rhubella and polio and all sorts of other diseases we stopped hearing about until uneducated anti-vaxxers decided to give then new life by manufacturing fake links to unrelated conditions.
Vaccines work. They save lives. They allowed us to move back toward normalcy. And the only reason they were not as effective in the US as they could have been is too many people refused to take them because they followed the politically driven advice of demagogues who either took the vaccine or didn't AND DIED OF COVID.
These people wanted herd immunity, but you don't get herd immunity by thinning the herd. You get it through vaccinations, but even then only if most people participate.
So if you don't want to be criticized for refusing to take the vaccine, TOO BAD. You're following stupid advice and if you were an isolated case that would be one thing, but then you're using platforms to spread the misinformation on which you've acted, which is providing other people with the stupid advice you're following and making it harder to bring this pandemic under control.
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Bolshevik
This mRNA technology sounds like it's going to open the door to many new solutions, so that's fascinating. However, joining a cult like The Way is like a type of addiction. There is no vaccine e
Bolshevik
Nearly 7 out of 10 Americans have at least one dose. Nearly 6 out of 10 are fully vaccinated. Boosters are available for certain groups but not everyone at this time. Children 5 - 11 can be
Twinky
Going for my booster jab tomorrow. Yes, I believe God to keep me safe - and to keep others safe. I believe I have a great natural immune system, to which loads of fresh fruit and veg, exercise,
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Modgellan
The link worked for me, thanks
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Allan
Do you have any articles supporting that claim ?
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T-Bone
Yes ! I Googled “do statistics show that the covid vaccine save lives?” and got quite a few hits – the first one quantifies the lives saved and even gives an economic value to it:
According to National Institutes of Health study mentioned in an October 2021 of Psychiatric Times:
“Covid-19 vaccines have so far reduced the number of fatalities that would have occurred due to the disease by about 140,000. The study researchers examined data from between December 21, 2020, and May 9, 2021, to assess the impact of state-level vaccination campaigns. The investigators compared the amount of time each state took to reach a series of milestones, beginning with 5 doses per 100 adults and escalating to 120 doses per 100 adults. They also calculated the number of vaccine doses per 100 adults at the end of each week.
The researchers found that COVID-19 vaccines prevented more than 139,000 deaths during the first 5 months they were available. Although 570,000 Americans died due to COVID-19 through the study period, the researchers’ model projected that there would have been 709,000 deaths without the vaccine.
“The researchers found that COVID-19 vaccines prevented more than 139,000 deaths during the first 5 months they were available.”
In addition, the investigators estimated that the economic value of saving these lives was between $625 billion and $1.4 trillion.
from: Psychiatric Times - how many lives have been saved by Covid-19 vaccinations
these links provide other aspects of the vaccines:
Myths and Facts about Covid-19 facts
USA Today article - American lives saved by Covid-19 vac
flawed paper on supposedly covid-19 vaccine deaths
* * * *
DVD bonus feature:
Another question I Googled was “did people question or doubt the smallpox vaccine like they do the covid-19 vaccine?” and found this stuff:
"History Does Repeat: Pandemic Vaccine Uproar Is Nothing New…
Oct. 14, 2021 -- Even as the fourth wave of COVID-19 cases trends downward, one aspect of the pandemic remains strong: differing opinions on the value of COVID-19 immunization and vaccine mandates across the U.S.
Strong feelings around vaccination are nothing new. Claims that link the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine to autism and opposition to measles vaccination that triggered outbreaks in California are recent examples.
People who were against smallpox immunizations, for example, ran advertisements, wrote to newspapers, and formed anti-vaccine organizations, as seen in news clippings from the 1860s to the 1950s.
In other words, although the furor over vaccines feels like a modern experience, disagreements throughout history reveal many similarities.
"There are a lot of parallels -- many of the same exact arguments," says Anna Kirkland, PhD, director of the Institute for Research on Women and Gender at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor.
In this etching from 1808, vaccine pioneer Edward Jenner, at right in blue, tries to convince vaccination opponents to get the smallpox shot.
"Some of the differences now are the stark political alignments by party that we see under COVID, which were there in some ways before but became very prominently organized by party," she says. "Those are only differences of degree, though, because there has long been an anti-government backing of anti-vaccine sentiments."
For example, the Anti-Vaccination Society of America was founded in 1879. Its public campaign against mandatory smallpox vaccination used wording about personal freedoms that might sound familiar today: "Liberty cannot be given, it must be taken."
The society was part of a larger movement that also questioned the motives behind promotion of the smallpox vaccine.
"The anti-vaccination movement questioned the data released by health authorities, and accused politicians, doctors and pharmaceutical companies of conspiring to act on their economic interests rather than health considerations," notes MyHeritage, which maintains an archive of pro- and anti-vaccine news clippings.
"For this reason -- and because MyHeritage has access to billions of historical records, including newspaper clippings -- it was natural for us to check the newspaper archives, to try and make sense of today's significant vaccination debate," says Roi Mandel, lead researcher at MyHeritage.
Other historians point out that the anti-vaccination movement in the U.S. got its start in the 1850s with the announcement of smallpox vaccine mandates.
"Much of that movement was predicated on widespread concern about the safety of smallpox vaccine, as well as a belief that vaccination laws were 'a tyrannical violation of individual liberty,' wrote Joseph B. Domachowske and Manika Suryadevara, both MDs, in a 2013 report in Human Vaccines & Immunotherapeutics.
"Unfortunately, the anti-vaccination activism helped bring about a significant decline in immunization rates, resulting in the re-emergence of smallpox just a couple of decades later," they said.”
from: WEB MD vaccine opposition not new
and don't forget
CUNY EDU News - a tale of two pandemics
Forbes tales from the vaccine vault
T-Bone's disclaimer: I firmly believe Blockbuster's friendly reminder to be kind and rewind is still applicable in this age of digital media and streaming services.
Edited by T-Bonetypos and formatting
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Rocky
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Raf
Oh FFS, seriously?
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/effectiveness-research/protocols.html
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/is-the-covid19-vaccine-safe
The vaccine saves lives.
Vaccine cynicism costs lives.
"I got god-given natural immunity" costs lives.
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Twinky
Allan, feel free to explore this page:
UK Summary | Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK (data.gov.uk)
Look in particular at the sidebar at left. You will see "Vaccinations" and "Death." Although they do not correlate exactly, you can see that Deaths have declined markedly, as the number of people vaccinated has risen.
FYI "Deaths" is deaths for any reason within 28 days of a +ve coronavirus test. So a death would be included even if a person had been run over by a bus, charged by a cow, stabbed by a burglar, or fell off a ladder, and died - if they'd tested positive within 28 days. Bit nuts really, but you can see the trend.
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Twinky
Oh, and Allan: do have a listen to the Beeb programme I noted above. I think you'll find it interesting.
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T-Bone
wife, daughter and I got our Moderna booster shot late afternoon ...no soreness...then we went to Hopdoddy for the most delicious mushroom, bacon, cheese burger and parmesan fries !
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socks
My wif' and I both have gotten the Moderna Vax, both doses. No real side effects, kind of a hit of floozy feelings for a few hours after the second one, but that was it. We both got the Booster for it, same thing, no biggie.
I get flu shots every year for years now, I've always been pretty susceptible to colds and flu and those vaccinations helped a lot since I started. I had a serious round of Pneumonia in the 90's, I got within 48 hours of making hand puppets with Jim Hanson, I waited so long to drag my ass into Emergency. I've been careful since.
All of those things aren't the same kinds of things but in my lifestyle they're related and connected, so I treat them seriously as part of the same health concerns. For years I've used a disinfectant when I go in and out of public shopping stores, the big box ones, "Wal Mart", all those. I'm careful about sneezing into a kleenex and avoiding people when they're snorting and sneezing all over the place in public, using doors, handles, knobs, picking thing up in public places, etc. It's all gross, seeing how many people treat personal hygiene. So I was in this whole clean thing long before this virus stuff started and frankly I don't mind the world being a little cleaner out there.
People that want to tell me I don' need to do that, don't get vaxed, I shouldn't do that, am wrong for doing that, can - how does it go in the original greek...? they can get fukked. Seriously, if I had a buck for every self proclaimed expert telling me what to do I'd have a barrel of bucks. I have no lack of expert sure fire opinion either way I want to go.
I've read up on what's going on as much as I feel the need to, I see the different sides to the issues, blah blah blah. I prefer to treat all of this as an individual's choice. That's how I treat it. I don't have all the answers and I don't expect others to either. I'm not going to hate someone because they don't want to get a vaccine or because they get one or because they're not sure. If I can help with my own incredibly insightful expert opinion I'd suggest - see a doctor, make sure of any exceptional conditions you might have that would make a difference and then go with the best you know and sure, get vaccinated. But if you don't, that's fine too, in my world.
I know that's not how the government is handling it across the country and it sucks and is difficult for everyone whether we're for this or against that or whatever. But I try to take the high road as much as possible and do what I can to help others with what they need and this is the best I know to do now.
PEACE!
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Allan
All good, I just wanted to see if I could get Rocky to cuss bahahaha...on a serious note though...I'm still VERY sceptical...for a plethora of reasons ! Firstly the NIH has flip flopped on a number of statements, i.e. mask wearing not helpful, then next minute it is. Then it isn't. Is this the same NIH btw that has finally admitted they WERE funding 'gain of function' at Wuhan ?? Also, virtually NO cases of healthy kids under 16 dying or even getting seriously ill from Covid....now after much urging from the drug companies they are going to 'immunize' (closed colons intended) 5 year olds and over....hello, now they're pushing for babies...I smell $$$$...as Dan Bongino says "follow the money trail" !!
Covid deaths, as Twinky mentioned, are way over inflated. At least the authorities have been honest enough to admit that if someone has Covid antibodies when they are killed in a car crash or falling off a ladder or (more likely) shot by someone in New York whilst eating a Big Mac IT IS LISTED AS A COVID DEATH.
I really am surprised how many GS'ers have such healthy scepticism for anything called church/fellowship yet sprint towards something the Government is saying is good and right for you ??!! Wasn't it Ronald Reagan that famously said " There are nine words coming out of a bureaucrats mouth that ought to send chills up your spine.... I'm from the government and I'm here to help"
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Allan
Sorry, I meant Raf !!
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Allan
I agree, no-one should be telling you to NOT get vaxxed...just wish people would reciprocate and NOT tell others they SHOULD get vaxxed !! I think that's pretty reasonable doncha thunk ??...and don't hit me with that "it's your moral duty so you don't give it to others" FFS if they've been vaccinated they're PROTECTED right ??!! And vaccinated still shed virus too don't they.....and let's not split hairs over how many micromils of virus vaccinated vs non-vaccinated shed :)
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Rocky
Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."
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Rocky
My daughter has made arrangements for my school age grandkiddos to get their first covid vax within the next two weeks and jab #2 three weeks later. She's thrilled and so am I.
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Rocky
From a public health perspective, we ALL have the right and duty to encourage friends and family to get the covid 19 vax.
History makes it very clear it's the right thing to do.
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socks
I dont care what you do, on a certain level. On another I care a lot. Either way I’d prefer to make my own decisions. If I get to, so do you. So when I’m King Dog of the Universe and running things we’ll get along great.
Ive managed to live as I see fit without having any issues. The week California closed down last year I drove an RV for 10 hours on a major freeway, got gas, food, used rest rooms, and visited family for a week in another city in another county. No problems at all. I slipped the stupid little mask on when I was in public places gassing up, and sanitized as I went. Easy. 99% of the trip I didn’t wear a mask but in those few situations where I knew someone would have a shit fit if I didn’t I did. The whole thing is such a minor concern to me, either way, I refuse to get in a twist, I just try to do the sensible thing snd get on with what I’m really trying to do.
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Allan
Key word being 'encourage'....not 'mandate' right ?
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Allan
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Allan
Are you sure ?? Facebook
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Twinky
I did not say that, Allan. I said, deaths for any reason within 28 days of a positive covid test.
There are other deaths outside 28 days that can be attributed to covid, where someone has been hospitalised / in ICU for a while.
And I invited you to look at the correlation between vaccination (rising fast) and deaths (falling fast). It's plain for anyone to see that there's a huge reduction in the number of deaths, hospitalisations etc, in the vaccinated cohort.
All medical staff will tell you that the hospitalised ones in the most serious condition are UNvaccinated. ICU is stuffed with naysayers. It's accepted that some vaxed people, those with particular susceptibilities, may get covid but not as severely.
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Allan
Here in Australia, the state of Victoria had 25 deaths from covid in one day. The state Premier was hard pressed by a journalist to divulge of the 25, how many were vaccinated...He refused to answer. He is the type of person that if none of them had been vaccinated he would have been shouting it from the roof tops....as someone said "I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm a things aren't adding up the way they should theorist" :)
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Bolshevik
I remember when this all started and toilet paper suddenly became a scare commodity. I waited outside the grocery store for half an hour to get diapers or something and then this line starts to form. Everyone has to get six feet a apart and all. I get in line and these this lady starts yelling loud how I've cut her in line and then this other lady shows up out of nowhere and starts yelling I need to social distance more and then the other tells her thank you and they both give verbal high fives cause they are saving lives by screaming at strangers for no reason. I never said a word and just moved further back in line even though I was there way before the screamers. Not like anyone died for their freedom to screem.
At least now I can say I'm vaxxed so go STFU.
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Twinky
Please don't be one of them, Allan.
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Raf
Allan, you are not skeptical for a plethora of reasons. You are skeptical for a plethora of excuses, the overwhelming majority of them stupid.
Your reasoning is unintelligent. I'm not saying YOU are. Your REASONING is faulty beyond repair. "If the vaccine works, why the mandates?" Jesus, man, because dozens of vaccines are mandated for all sorts of reasons, and it has been so since George Washington MANDATED the smallpox vaccine during the Revolutionary War. Commie socialist unAmerican freedom hater that he was.
"Now, I'm not saying people should be forced to play in traffic. But I just wish people would reciprocate and not tell me I can't play in traffic."
Dude, they're not equivalent positions! I hope they "force" this vaccine on everyone the same way they did smallpox and chicken pox and measles and mumps and rhubella and polio and all sorts of other diseases we stopped hearing about until uneducated anti-vaxxers decided to give then new life by manufacturing fake links to unrelated conditions.
Vaccines work. They save lives. They allowed us to move back toward normalcy. And the only reason they were not as effective in the US as they could have been is too many people refused to take them because they followed the politically driven advice of demagogues who either took the vaccine or didn't AND DIED OF COVID.
These people wanted herd immunity, but you don't get herd immunity by thinning the herd. You get it through vaccinations, but even then only if most people participate.
So if you don't want to be criticized for refusing to take the vaccine, TOO BAD. You're following stupid advice and if you were an isolated case that would be one thing, but then you're using platforms to spread the misinformation on which you've acted, which is providing other people with the stupid advice you're following and making it harder to bring this pandemic under control.
Get the F8ing shot already.
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