As I said earlier, do you have any examples of this from the article ??
Your article is by Justus R Hope MD. There are books on Covid and ivermectin by this author. As well as books about cancer and another about a coffee diet.
And in fact, the whole 'climate change' agenda has very much to do with the covid 'plandemic'...it's all about pushing fear which makes it easier to be manipulated and controlled..come on man...most here came out of that scenarion...you think twi had exclusive rights to that ideology ??...Its all about 'wealth transfer, communism/marxism in drag...join the dots, not hard....the masks are the manifested presence of the f.e.a.r. they are promoting, fear porn and the gullible are addicted to it....
On 11/14/2020, the 7 day average number of daily cases was 147,000. On 11/14/2021 the 7 day average number of daily cases was 79,000.
Your post is completely false.
(Buck Sexton is a conservative, political commentator, by the way, not a medical authority, which makes this post an attempt to inject political discourse into this discussion. That is against GSC rules.)
His attempts to inject politics into this discussion appears to be a recurring problem. Earlier on this thread he posted a video of Dr. Seheult talking about vitamin D – and then he challenged a specific group of people “Please, all you "In big pharma we trust" followers, please, pick this apart and show me where this guy is wrong AND I will go get my jab tomorrow !!!!!” see here:
On 11/10/2021 at 1:31 PM, Allan said:
Please, all you "In big pharma we trust" followers, please, pick this apart and show me where this guy is wrong AND I will go get my jab tomorrow !!!!!
Being familiar with Dr. Seheult’s other informative videos on vaccines, viruses and therapeutics I decided to watch this one because the way he phrased his challenge to pick it apart gave me the impression that Dr. Seheult has now changed his position on vaccines. But after watching the ENTIRE video, I was puzzled as to where he got the idea that Dr. Seheult was dismissive of vaccines and/or advocated vitamin D as an alternative to the vaccine.
So, I responded to him with three questions:
1. why did you address your challenge of picking apart the video to "In big pharma we trust" followers? (Now if this was a dare to concoct the most outlandish counterargument to getting the vaccine, I would have to say congratulations on your powers of irrelevant thinking and confirmation bias! You win the challenge of that dare! Seriously though – this argument is based on a relevance fallacy.)
2. Did you watch the video all the way through yourself?
And 3. What do you think was the point of his video?
In my response I also included links to a couple of other Dr. Seheult’s interviews where he was very clear on the effectiveness of 4 vaccines, the use of other therapeutics in tandem with vaccines a even a snapshot of the protracted historical timeline of how long it takes to develop vaccines (which gave me a better perspective and appreciation of how the current vaccines were fast-tracked but certainly not the final or definitive pronouncement of the war on covid-19 is over) and I ended my comments by relating my story of being subjected to a conspiratorial-political-science-denying-soliloquy by another patient in the doctor’s office waiting room – since my policy is usually never to discuss politics and religion with strangers – especially if they bring it up – I kept my cool and let this guy ramble and rant about his conspiratorial-political-nonsense – I just sat there and looked at my phone - giving him no indication that I was upset, bothered or agreed with him - and figured if he decides to get violent at least we’re in the doctor’s office so emergency medical response should be fairly quick …I was done with cult-talk and a cult-mindset a long time ago - - in my post here:
On 11/11/2021 at 12:57 PM, T-Bone said:
Thanks for posting that video !
Even though your challenge wasn’t addressed to me, I decided to listen to it anyway because I am familiar with Professor Seheult and his impressive career…the video is very informative…and NOWHERE in the video does he dismiss getting the vaccine and NOWHERE in the video does he suggest or recommend a vitamin-D regimen as an alternative to getting the vaccine…So after watching it I reread this challenge/post of yours and was really puzzled:
Why did you address your challenge of picking apart the video to "In big pharma we trust" followers ?
Did you watch the video all the way through yourself?
What do you think was the point of his video?
I am curious as to your intention with posting the video – and - I’m willing to give you the benefit of a doubt if you could reasonably explain why your summons to pick apart the video is based on anything other than a display of a lack of good listening skills and no logical correlation.
For anyone else who follows Seheult’s work there are a couple of other links you might enjoy:
click here this is a lengthy podcast but well worth a listen – in an interview Seheult discusses Covid-19, vaccines and various therapies.
and here in a July 2021 video Seheult discusses the effectiveness of 4 major vaccines against the Delta variant.
This thread reminded me of an encounter at my doc’s office building early this year. Going into the doctor’s office was like entering another world: signs outside saying to wear a mask, if you have any flu-like symptoms to call this number and you will go around to another entrance and it further explains the hi-tech CDC hazmat suit and protocols that are followed, inside there’s a no-contact temp reading station and you get issued a sticker with your temp on it, Plexiglas shields at the receptionist counter, social-distance label markers on the floor, part of an adjacent hallway sectioned off with clear plastic and duct tape, hand-sanitizer stations in the hallways and waiting room.
Another patient and I were the only ones in the spacious waiting area – we were about 15 feet apart sitting perpendicular (me on back row of chairs and him on the right-side row) – both of us wearing masks. Since I was second to enter the waiting room, I thought I’d make a casual comment about all the new protocols at the office – I just said “wow this sure is different.” (I figured my brief comment might start a friendly conversation…boy, was I wrong).
The guy gives a big snort of derision and then pulls his mask off and starts talking about all this nonsense is just making some people richer and we’re paying for it and this new administration is just letting them have at it, and blah blah blah politics blah blah blah politics blah blah blah…To say this “conversation” was one-sided is not a figure of speech – I literally did not say one thing the whole time this guy was holding a one-person political rally in the doctor’s waiting room.
Fortunately for me I’ve already developed heard-immunity to cult-talk – it doesn’t even go through one ear and out the other – since I listened to crap like that for 12 years in TWI and realized that stuff doesn’t just go through you – it lays eggs and problems develop – cult-mindset – emotional and intellectual baggage…once I got rid of the flotsam and jetsam of heard-stink…which is like group-think…heard-stink is the unpleasant, scandalous, pontificating, conspiratorial sounds of cult-indoctrination that assault the airwaves of those adamantly convinced they are the enlightened ones…yeah there was a time in my life when I followed a cult-leader - so I heard it all and believed it all ... …fyi: heard-immunity is based upon the proper functioning of the complex operations (cognitive skills) inside the cranial fortress. I’m no social butterfly but I am really put off by people who lack the sensitivity and courtesy …or social barometer – to gauge where I’m at on some issue – especially if we’ve just crossed paths at some neutral territory – the doc’s waiting room was NOT a political rally.
Since I kept my mask on, he couldn’t see the expression on my face – which by the way, was a scrunched-up mouth as if I had got a taste of some rancid Kool-Aid – my mouth was that way during his entire conspiratorial-political-science-denying-soliloquy. He seemed undeterred by my lack of response – a few times I even looked down and shook my head in disgust.
To which I received very odd replies:
On 11/11/2021 at 1:32 PM, Allan said:
Interesting....Bolshvik, Waysider and yourself seem to have swapped one cult for another !! The cult of covid !! Bolshevik and Waysider both posted "they check the covid cases daily" (swap 'daily' for 'religiously') There seems to be an obsession with it, hence the zealousness to 'get everyone vaccinated' (swap 'vaccinated' for 'signed up')...I'm seriously concerned for you people !! TWI used fear tactics, love bombing, intellectual arguments, bagging and repudiating of alternative groups to present themselves as the only savior for mankind....blind obedience to the 'man of God for our day and time' has been swapped for 'blind obedience to big Pharma and the Government.
I know leaving TWI left a big spiritual vacuum in some of your lives, I'm just very surprised at WHAT you have filled that vacuum with !!!
On 11/11/2021 at 1:53 PM, Allan said:
The Doctor is also VERY smart. He knows that IF he came out and dismissed the covid vaccine and/or stated vitamin D as an alternative to the covid vax, he would be struck off the medical register and very likely be charged with an offence, not to mention the leftie media and other nut job covid cultists on him like blowflies on a fresh cow patty. How about it (said in an exxagerated VPW tone LMAO)
in case the 2nd quote is not expanded - here it is in full: “The Doctor is also VERY smart. He knows that IF he came out and dismissed the covid vaccine and/or stated vitamin D as an alternative to the covid vax, he would be struck off the medical register and very likely be charged with an offence, not to mention the leftie media and other nut job covid cultists on him like blowflies on a fresh cow patty. How about it (said in an exxagerated VPW tone LMAO)”
These are some of the most fascinating posts for understanding conspiracy theorists and a harmful and controlling cult-like mindset:
Conspiracy theory: “A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable. The term has a negative connotation, implying that the appeal to a conspiracy is based on prejudice or insufficient evidence. A conspiracy theory is not the same as a conspiracy; instead, it refers to a hypothesized conspiracy with specific characteristics, such as an opposition to the mainstream consensus among those people (such as scientists or historians) who are qualified to evaluate its accuracy.”
Mindset: “In decision theory and general systems theory, a mindset is a set of assumptions, methods, or notions held by one or more people or groups of people. A mindset can also be seen as arising out of a person's world view or philosophy of life.
A mindset may be so firmly established that it creates a powerful incentive within these people or groups to continue to adopt or accept prior behaviors, choices, or tools. The latter phenomenon is also sometimes described as mental inertia, "groupthink", and it is often difficult to counteract its effects upon analysis and decision making processes.
In cognitive psychology, a mindset represents the cognitive processes activated in response to a given task (French, 2016).”
“A mindset is a belief that orients the way we handle situations—the way we sort out what is going on and what we should do. Our mindsets help us spot opportunities, but they can also trap us in self-defeating cycles.
This essay isn’t about all the beliefs we might hold. It is about the beliefs that make a difference in our lives—the beliefs that distinguish people who are successful at what they do versus those who continually struggle.
The Stanford University psychologist Carol Dweck (2006) popularized the idea of mindsets by contrasting different beliefs about where our abilities come from. If we have a fixed mindset and think that our ability is innate, then a failure can be unsettling because it makes us doubt how good we are. In contrast, if we have a growth mindset, then we expect that we can improve our ability—and a failure, therefore, shows us what we need to work on.
People with a fixed mindset are out to prove themselves, and may get very defensive when someone suggests they made a mistake—in other words, they measure themselves by their failures. People with a growth mindset, on the other hand, often show perseverance and resilience when they’ve committed errors—they become more motivated to work harder. You can imagine how much having a fixed or growth mindset can affect our lives.”
I am inclined to think that conspiracy theories and a harmful and controlling cult-like mindset are often intertwined – I say this as I call to mind wierwille’s Advanced Class – he was a master at knitting together conspiratorial-spiritual- political-machinations-nonsense and those of us who esteemed him as the truly-enlightened-one-of-god-and-the-New-Knoxville-Gnostic-and-the-only-one-having-the-inside-scoop-for-this-day-and-time-and-hour bought into it all !
So in return I asked HOW did he know that in this post:
On 11/11/2021 at 3:43 PM, T-Bone said:
I’m not gonna even bother playing some tit-for-tat game with some pot calling the kettle black – but since you let the Kool-Aid out of the bag with these posts I’ve quoted here – maybe it’s time to address the cult-mentality in the room.
your post that suggests Dr. Seheult is duplicitous is not just slanderous to him – but is absolutely preposterous and goes against everything he has ever stated or done publicly in written works, online videos, interviews and in the hospitals he serves…interesting you should reference wierwille as the divine seer who sees all and knows all especially when it’s out of his area of expertise (which is just about everything except con games and Drambuie).
So…do you know for a fact that Dr. Seheult would like to publicly dismiss the covid vaccine and/or stated vitamin D as an alternative to the covid vax but won’t for fear of being “struck off the medical register and very likely be charged with an offence” ?
How do you know that?
What information has led you to think that?
Your suggestion is absurd and seems desperate. For Dr. Seheult to reject the covid vaccine and/or state that vitamin D is an alternative to the covid vax is the antithesis of everything he is known for publicly – it’s flat out hypocritical. Shame on you for fabricating malicious lies about a well-respected doctor to forward your conspiratorial-political-science-denying-agenda…in case you forgot – I was in the same cult as you…but back then, who knew about the sneaky manipulative tactics of cults?
Only nowadays – it seems the manipulative tactics of cults are mainstream in social media and with certain politicians – trying to overwhelm others with misinformation, conspiracy theories and fearmongering to frighten folks to buy into their “knowledge of what’s really going on”. It’s like a weird Terminator movie twist of Skynet the artificial neural network-based conscious group mind / artificial super-pseudo-intelligence system of wierwille’s Advanced Class legacy has become self-aware and is now playing on broadcast TV.
…I am so fvcking familiar with cultic-mind-games it’s not even funny – though I have to admit, I laughed out loud when I read your post revealing Dr. Seheult’s evil plan to subvert the power and authority of the science and medical communities – it’s sheer genius ! Inform others of the benefits of Vitamin D and the effectiveness of vaccines – and then when they least expect it – boom – tell them vaccines don’t really work that good…genius !!!! I use to fall for bull$hit like that in TWI.
As some other Grease Spotters have already pointed out – you push links and cite material that actually weakens your case - or goes counter to what you want to prove – so it doesn’t look like you’re driven by any solid information and you certainlydon’t come across as someone who has actually read the very articles and links you refer to - which makes me wonder what is your motivation, since your mission appears to be making faulty attempts to refute evidence, stats and facts.
Once again thanks for letting the Kool-Aid out of the bag.
In response to my post, he resorts to vulgar-high-school-style-insults saying he recognized TWI was a cult while I was still licking LCM’s jockstrap – which I thought was odd but interesting for several reasons – besides being a fallacious personal attack against me (ad hominem fallacy) instead of attacking the actual issue– he also attempts to promote another lie - which I underlined in this quote - he says "I recognized TWI as a cult whilst you were still licking LCM's jockstrap, so that's a pretty weak argument lol. You and others have not yet made the 'connection' ...have you ?! What were TWI's three tenets of belief, their driving motive ?? MONEY, POWER, CONTROL = CULT....Big Pharma/Government ? MONEY, POWER, CONTROL...you're IN the covid cult and you do not even realise it !! Oh, and as for Dr. Seheult....look at the TIMELINE of his videos and what he is saying two years ago compared to things he has changed his stance on (sorry Twinks, you arse umed wrong) ...again.” …you can see his post here:
On 11/11/2021 at 5:27 PM, Allan said:
Hey, hey, I recognized TWI as a cult whilst you were still licking LCM's jockstrap, so that's a pretty weak argument lol.
You and others have not yet made the 'connection' ...have you ?! What were TWI's three tenets of belief, their driving motive ?? MONEY, POWER, CONTROL = CULT....Big Pharma/Government ? MONEY, POWER, CONTROL...you're IN the covid cult and you do not even realise it !!
Oh, and as for Dr. Seheult....look at the TIMELINE of his videos and what he is saying two years ago compared to things he has changed his stance on (sorry Twinks, you arse umed wrong) ...again.
again, you’ll notice the conspiratorial-theory-effort to push politics and to accuse me of being in a covid cult…and to add doubt and confusion he says to check the timeline on Dr. Seheult’s position…well – no need for me to do that – I’m very familiar with what he said when, and do not find anything contrary to what he has said in the links I’ve posted earlier – matter of fact, here’s a few more to indicate his stance on the vaccine – here are some excerpts of an interview and associated links below them:
“The decision to get vaccinated in a pandemic is not a decision out of nothing. The situation is calling for it. It’s either you get vaccinated or get the infection.” – Dr. Roger Seheult
“The fact that we don’t have polio or smallpox today is a direct consequence of ancestors in this country and around the world. They decided on taking a vaccine to eliminate those diseases. We’ve effectively done that when we started to say that a vaccine is a choice for me.” – Dr. Roger Seheult
“We don’t know the long-term effects of vaccines because these effects would usually appear within the first two to three months. But having the virus has long-term effects, too. A study shows that some athletes still had signs of myocarditis after a mild or asymptomatic bout of COVID-19. … In vaccines’ case, it works because it allows our bodies to develop immunity against COVID-19. What most do not know is that anti-COVID vaccines contain attenuated protein from the virus itself. This prepares our immune system for what’s coming and [to] be ready for it with antibodies.” – Dr. Roger Seheult
“Do we know the long-term side effects of the vaccine? No, we don’t until … a long time, but we don’t know the virus’s long-term side effects either. But that may be different if somebody has horrible allergic reactions and anaphylaxis. I would not advise getting the vaccine because you’re at high risk for getting another allergic reaction. That’s a medical risk-benefit ratio” – Dr. Roger Seheult
On herd immunity the interviewer said this about Dr. Roger’s stance on vaccines: “Dr. Roger believes that at this time, the best weapon that we have against COVID-19 is herd immunity. However, he explained that our hospitals and health system’s current situation is not enough for the needs of the infected people. In order to achieve herd immunity, we need the support of the vaccine to get there.”
Personally, I do not take issue with this poster saying he realized TWI was a cult before I did. That may very well be true – but a matter that could be settled pretty quickly if he would reply to what I asked him in my next post; in it I asked a few simple questions:
What programs did you participate in and what responsibilities did you have up until the time you left TWI?
How long were you in TWI ?
What was your age when you left?
Why did you leave?
Did you join an offshoot?
On 11/11/2021 at 5:38 PM, T-Bone said:
Quoting this post for posterity…as far as your vulgar-adolescent-insult goes - does that reflect your current "superior" state of mind?
seems reminiscent of vulgar and mean-spirited cult-leaders like wierwille & LCM.
…and it does make me wonder about our differences in age and cognitive development. I left TWI in 1986 – I was 33 years old. I’ve expressed on Grease Spot many times the specific reasons I left and the long and arduous task of unpacking and tossing the intellectual / emotional baggage and cult-mindset. So, for you to vaunt about your superiority of overcoming cult-mentality – I seriously doubt that based on your some 88 posts so far on this thread mostly filled with conspiratorial-disparaging-science-stats-and-facts-pontification reminiscent of the Advanced Class …but maybe your track record or methodology might reveal a more intelligent side of your posts...so
Did you receive revelation from God about cult-followers who licked the jockstraps of cult-leaders?
Did you see it in a vision – or did you taste it? Since you mentioned the use of the tongue.
LCM was homophobic…I am a happily married heterosexual and have a clear conscience before God and others that I have never fooled around on my wife nor desired - nor pursued any sexual activity with man, woman, child, cult-leader or beast…and I have never owned a blow-up doll of a football player dressed in a too-too with an authentic tasting jockstrap. In other words, your revelation is faulty – it doesn’t jibe with the facts, the “truth behind the facts” ... reality.
What programs did you participate in and what responsibilities did you have up until the time you left TWI?
You may have already shared some of the things I ask here – but if you don’t mind sharing them again so I can better understand the difference between you and me…and if you have really changed that much since you left TWI...
oh, if we’re tag teaming with Allan AND ghostwriters – feel free to combine everyone’s experiences – but don’t lump it altogether - rather break it down individually – for example listing you were WOW 12 times during your 2 years in TWI sounds kind of squirrely.
How long were you in TWI ?
What was your age when you left?
Why did you leave?
Did you join an offshoot?
How is your current mindset – evidenced so clearly on this thread – any different than the mindset you had while in TWI?
I’m looking forward to his response to my questions - and I’m assuming he will be honest and accurate since Twinky said she already knows the answers but is letting him tell his story.
On 11/11/2021 at 7:15 PM, Twinky said:
No, no, Rocky. Allan is a real person, he has a wife and kids (not so much "kids" now), they do live in Oz, and I've known him - jeepers, since 1989. I know when he got involved in TWI and why he left, and a lot more beside. But that's his story to tell - not mine.
And he's right in that "if the USA 'sneezes', the Western world 'catches a cold' " - because a lot of faddy stuff emanates from the US, where it gets far too much air time. Not just covid, but many other fads, misinformation, bizarre ideas, conspiracy theories, tin hats, etc. (And right-wingishness, but let's not go there, too political.) Even BLM, especially in context of police brutality, has spread across the globe, in places where previously there didn't seem to be issues, certainly not to the extent they now are. Everybody's so "woke" that we forget to be aware.
So some of the crazy ideas that spread across the US, and the head-in-sand mentality, or conspiracy theories, do spread also across the rest of the "western world." It's quite right to keep an eye on what's going on in the US - if only to be able to take evasive action (hehheh).
Don't mind me. Probably time I went to bed. Cinderella's coach has long since departed. It's 1.15am.
Just for the record – I am not disputing he may have realized TWI was a cult long before I did. What I am suggesting is the possibility that even though he may have left a cult before me, many of his posts on this thread seem to indicate a cult-like mindset has never left him. Someone remarked how different Grease Spot is from TWI. True that! These are open discussions – anyone can air their viewpoint and opinions. I don’t care what folks bring to the table – hopefully it’s something useful…but it does get old when someone brings table scraps and leftovers from wierwille’s Advanced Class and conspiracy theorists.
an old proverb comes to mind - people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones – meaning people who are vulnerable to criticism should not criticize others, especially not for the faults that they themselves have since such criticism will likely be returned. From: The Free Dictionary on idiom of people who live in glass houses
Edited by T-Bone typos and formatting and adding links
Well, that's twenty minutes of my life I won't get back !!
And yet, you've "wasted" days and days arguing into the abyss onto this thread where nearly everyone is able to recognize there is ZERO substance to your arguments. Will you ever get that time back?
over what period of time ? This graph tells me there were a total of 15 unvaccinated people in Cheyenne that were either a/ over 80 years old or b/ obese or 3/ had underlying health issues or...possibly all 3 !!...what I'm really saying is the 'stats' are not giving us all the 'facts'
Well, that's twenty minutes of my life I won't get back !! I bet you wrote like that when you were in twi to justify not leaving ?? Same deal here, it's just that the questions really should be...who has the 'cult' mindset ?? who sees a 'conspiracy' and who doesn't ?? Was twi a 'conspiracy' ?? At the end of the day, it's all debate about whether the vax is more beneficial or harmful in the mid to long term and the odds are not looking good on the 'beneficial' side at this point.
“ I bet you wrote like that when you were in twi to justify not leaving ??”
Honestly – this statement makes no sense and serves no purpose other than being another personal attack rather than addressing the points I brought up…and oddly enough you speak to some imaginary opponent – I can’t say for sure until you answer some of the questions I posed - twice now:
What programs did you participate in and what responsibilities did you have up until the time you left TWI?
How long were you in TWI ?
What was your age when you left?
Why did you leave?
Did you join an offshoot?
Please try to be honest and accurate – remember Twinky is reading this thread too
And for the record I will say that the way I think and write here on Grease Sport is diametrically opposed to how I was trained to think and write in the way corps – I’ve recalled here on many threads about my time in-residence being extremely laser-focused on knowing The Power For Abundant Living class material backwards and forwards. No exaggeration !!!!!!!
During the three meals we had each day in the dining room, we were randomly called upon to give a five minute teaching - right there on the spot – and immediately critiqued right after that. Even back then I was disturbed by one fact - that people who quoted PFAL material verbatim or with very little deviation from that, received the highest praise with little or no criticism... In preparation for doing our research papers, one day LCM was pounding on the podium and bellowing out “Don’t try to reinvent the wheel – base your research paper on something from PFAL” …if that’s how you imagine I think and write NOW on Grease Spot – you are grossly mistaken !!!! Your powers of discernment are zilch !
I guess you’ve never been in the way corps program to say something really stupid like that. Of course, I don’t know that for sure – until you answer those questions I asked earlier. So, for now I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume you haven’t been through the way corps program. And just to give you an idea for comparison of how I thought and wrote when I was in TWI – just open any one of wierwille’s books – when I was in TWI I was very disciplined and prided myself on reigning in any what TWI might label five-senses-worldly-logic-unbeliever-type rogue thoughts, essay concepts, teaching ideas which were contrary to what is in PFAL…so for all practical purposes I was a carbon copy of wierwille.
anyone who is even vaguely familiar with PFAL would see the stark difference between the PFAL material/TWI’s belief system/wierwille’s prognosticating and pontificating bull$hit and what I say here on Grease Spot.
I don’t know anything about you really…so maybe you’re just not familiar with PFAL, wierwille, LCM or the TWI-mindset…but that seems silly to me because you come across as having that same cult-like mindset I had while I was in TWI and it was heavily reenforced in the way corps program – with a predilection for conspiracy theories, logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and anything that makes one feel they have superior knowledge compared to the masses.
Now if you are familiar with the way corps program – because you went through it – well then that makes me think there’s a deeper issue that needs to be addressed…and let me say this – there’s no pressure here – currently I’m not really expecting to have an open and honest dialog with you at this discussion table – so don’t feel like you have to actually answer my questions or help clarify or correct my current take on you. The reason I’ve been putting my half-a-cent on this thread is for any disenchanted way corps out there who read Grease Spot.
Matter of fact, my primary target audience on Grease Spot is disenchanted way corps - whether or not they’re still active in TWI – and more specifically they all have a strong sense of disillusionment derived from the failure of TWI / the way corps program to fulfill its declared goals - and the perception of inconsistencies between the actions of certain TWI-leaders and the ideals they supposedly represent. These folks are my primary target audience because I understand and share similar feelings. The only big unresolved problem they may still have, is that they have not yet fully come to terms with the toxic legacy of wierwille…
From my own experience and in talking with other disenchanted way corps I’ve noticed in leaving an abusive, deceitful and exploitative organization like The Way International we have to deal with grief and loss.
I’ve found there are two well-known models for dealing with grief and loss. One is from Elisabeth Kübler-Ross a Swiss-American psychiatrist and a pioneer in near-death studies. She theorized there were 5 stages of grief but her studies were with people who were dying (terminally ill), not people who were grieving over the loss of a loved one. In her 1969 book “On Death and Dying” she proposed the 5 stages of grief and loss: 1. Denial and isolation, 2. Anger, 3. Bargaining, 4. Depression, and 5. Acceptance…I think there is some merit to her work although there’s a strong consensus among psychologists that people who are grieving over any kind of loss do not necessarily go through the stages in the same order or experience all of them.
Another model is from George Bonanno. His research is noted for contradicting Kübler-Ross’ 5 stages of grief. As a professor of clinical psychology at Columbia University, he conducted more than two decades of scientific studies on grief and trauma, which have been published in several papers of peer-reviewed journals in the field of psychology.
His studies came out of several thousand subjects and included people who have suffered losses in the U.S. and cross-cultural studies in various countries around the world. His subjects suffered losses through war, terrorism, deaths of children, premature deaths of spouses, sexual abuse, childhood diagnoses of AIDS, and other potentially devastating loss events or potential trauma events – such as losing a job, or one of the parents losing custody of a child through divorce, loss of a romantic relationship, loss of a pet, losing faith in one’s religion.
Bonanno’s findings indicate that natural resilience is a part of the human psyche, and that there are four possible paths one could take in dealing with grief and loss. Folks can get a little better idea of these two models as well as some other theories of dealing with grief and loss at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grief
sorry for the 20 minutes of your life that my post forced you to waste…maybe you could work on your speed-reading and comprehension skills …or just simply ignore my posts…
don’t you just love the freedom we have here? Unlike the contrived and stifling conversations, we had in TWI? Everyone parroting what wierwille established as truth. Those crippling-mind-numbing-habits I adopted while in TWI were never about exploring my faith, the Bible nor was it about expanding spiritual awareness…most folks like me never dared to challenge wierwille’s ideology...if wierwille was still alive today I wonder what he'd have to say about the pandemic and vaccines...yeah, I remember him saying cancer was a devil spirit. ...oh yeah I bought into all his bull$hit...I was a self-described flunky through and through …the way corps mindset was mostly about clinging to closed-minded ideas, keeping an eye out for devil spirits lurking behind every tree and those damn commies …illuminati…wrong-seed boys…lions, and tigers and bears oh my …I imagined wierwille had his spiritual finger on the pulse of what’s really going on politically in our country and around the world…yup - and loyalists like me conforming to his values and ethics, I was always preoccupied with busywork as a distraction to real thinking and awareness...I was stuck in a stifling subculture where people related to each other only superficially through contrived interpersonal skills...we all were an odd conglomerate of mostly well-meaning but misguided idealists cobbled together to loosely form a single self-serving entity – The Way International…
Does any of this sound familiar? I don’t mean as a former follower of TWI. I ask that of anyone who subscribes to conspiracies theories. The mindsets bear an uncanny resemblance. I mean the a priori assumptions seem to be almost identical: reasoning and knowledge based on theoretical nonsense - disregarding facts and disparaging observation and experience, logic, science and experts in specific fields.
but hey, enough about me…this has been another public service message to disenchanted way corps and probably doesn’t concern you…anyway…see you around – or not – it doesn’t matter – it’s just a discussion – as you said: “ At the end of the day, it's all debate about whether the vax is more beneficial or harmful in the mid to long term…” yup – keep calm and carry on.
Edited by T-Bone typos and formatting and the emoji factor !!!
over what period of time ? This graph tells me there were a total of 15 unvaccinated people in Cheyenne that were either a/ over 80 years old or b/ obese or 3/ had underlying health issues or...possibly all 3 !!...what I'm really saying is the 'stats' are not giving us all the 'facts'
I address this to whoever reads this.
Obviously, the graphIC shows ONE point in time. The things the Aussie claims the graphIC tells him are NOT facts. They are his false assumptions. IF he had even one iota of intellectual honesty or curiosity, he WOULD articulate his assumptions rather as questions and then seek out the answers to those questions.
The graph presents FACTS. The Aussie claims things that are neither specified, articulated, nor implied by the FACTS presented in the graphIC.
If anyone wants to find more facts or information to answer questions the reader may reasonably formulate based on the FACTS presented in the graphIC, I provided links to the healthcare facility so that any such questions can be directed to those at said facility who may provide additional insight.
Obviously, the graphIC shows ONE point in time. The things the Aussie claims the graphIC tells him are NOT facts. They are his false assumptions. IF he had even one iota of intellectual honesty or curiosity, he WOULD articulate his assumptions rather as questions and then seek out the answers to those questions.
The graph presents FACTS. The arrogant, socially handicapped Aussie claims things that are neither specified, articulated, nor implied by the FACTS presented in the graphIC.
If anyone wants to find more facts or information to answer questions the reader may reasonably formulate based on the FACTS presented in the graphIC, I provided links to the healthcare facility so that any such questions can be directed to those at said facility who may provide additional insight.
I'm simply saying that graph tells only a tiny fraction of the whole picture concerning deaths in Cheyenne...nothing about age, comorbidities, etc...it is pointless.
I'm simply saying that graph tells only a tiny fraction of the whole picture concerning deaths in Cheyenne...nothing about age, comorbidities, etc...it is pointless.
And I simply redirected your pointless ramblings such that if you have QUESTIONS about the facts presented, IF you have even one iota of intellectual honesty or curiosity, you would/could pursue answers to said questions. Nothing more, nothing less.
The graphIC presents DATA. DATA = FACT. If more FACTS are necessary to address your questions, I showed you where to direct those questions.
And I simply redirected your pointless ramblings such that if you have QUESTIONS about the facts presented, IF you have even one iota of intellectual honesty or curiosity, you would/could pursue answers to said questions. Nothing more, nothing less.
The graphIC presents DATA. DATA = FACT. If more FACTS are necessary to address your questions, I showed you where to direct those questions.
I'm not interested in digging into that graph any further because I'm pretty sure I know what the answer is i.e. the 'status' of the patients..if it floats your boat, you present the full facts, thanks in advance.
over what period of time ? This graph tells me there were a total of 15 unvaccinated people in Cheyenne that were either a/ over 80 years old or b/ obese or 3/ had underlying health issues or...possibly all 3 !!...what I'm really saying is the 'stats' are not giving us all the 'facts
The graph is clearly dated at the bottom. These are the numbers for Monday, 11/15/2021. The link shows other days that offer some perspective. There is no (zero) information to indicate patient age or general health status. You have assumed these details in an effort to create a fictitious patient profile. This is dishonest and dangerous. If anything, there is a good chance these are a younger demographic than we saw in the early pandemic because a high percentage of the elderly have already been vaccinated. But, we don't know that for certain. I think it's a fair assumption, though.
The graph is clearly dated at the bottom. These are the numbers for Monday, 11/15/2021. The link shows other days that offer some perspective. There is no (zero) information to indicate patient age or general health status. You have assumed these details in an effort to create a fictitious patient profile. This is dishonest and dangerous. If anything, there is a good chance these are a younger demographic than we saw in the early pandemic because a high percentage of the elderly have already been vaccinated. But, we don't know that for certain. I think it's a fair assumption, though.
anything can be assumed, without the full facts...going by past statistics, I'd say they would be older, and/or health compromised people :)
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Bolshevik
This mRNA technology sounds like it's going to open the door to many new solutions, so that's fascinating. However, joining a cult like The Way is like a type of addiction. There is no vaccine e
Bolshevik
Nearly 7 out of 10 Americans have at least one dose. Nearly 6 out of 10 are fully vaccinated. Boosters are available for certain groups but not everyone at this time. Children 5 - 11 can be
Twinky
Going for my booster jab tomorrow. Yes, I believe God to keep me safe - and to keep others safe. I believe I have a great natural immune system, to which loads of fresh fruit and veg, exercise,
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Bolshevik
Your article is by Justus R Hope MD. There are books on Covid and ivermectin by this author. As well as books about cancer and another about a coffee diet.
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Bolshevik
I don't know of a place it is a good thing. The story isn't true as pointed out.
This where where I accuse you of the obvious insinuation of your statement . . . and we go on some sort of other tangent.
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Bolshevik
Edited by Bolshevikdot dot dash dot dot dot dash
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Rocky
Then again, Allan discounts data as non-factual and biased.
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Rocky
By what authority do you demand anyone respond to your inane, misleading questions?
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Allan
"authority" ?? "Demand" ?? you're sounding more and more Marxist everyday
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Twinky
Oh, my. Childrens Hours on the radio on Saturday morning. All sing together now...!
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T-Bone
His attempts to inject politics into this discussion appears to be a recurring problem. Earlier on this thread he posted a video of Dr. Seheult talking about vitamin D – and then he challenged a specific group of people “Please, all you "In big pharma we trust" followers, please, pick this apart and show me where this guy is wrong AND I will go get my jab tomorrow !!!!!” see here:
Being familiar with Dr. Seheult’s other informative videos on vaccines, viruses and therapeutics I decided to watch this one because the way he phrased his challenge to pick it apart gave me the impression that Dr. Seheult has now changed his position on vaccines. But after watching the ENTIRE video, I was puzzled as to where he got the idea that Dr. Seheult was dismissive of vaccines and/or advocated vitamin D as an alternative to the vaccine.
So, I responded to him with three questions:
1. why did you address your challenge of picking apart the video to "In big pharma we trust" followers? (Now if this was a dare to concoct the most outlandish counterargument to getting the vaccine, I would have to say congratulations on your powers of irrelevant thinking and confirmation bias! You win the challenge of that dare! Seriously though – this argument is based on a relevance fallacy.)
2. Did you watch the video all the way through yourself?
And 3. What do you think was the point of his video?
In my response I also included links to a couple of other Dr. Seheult’s interviews where he was very clear on the effectiveness of 4 vaccines, the use of other therapeutics in tandem with vaccines a even a snapshot of the protracted historical timeline of how long it takes to develop vaccines (which gave me a better perspective and appreciation of how the current vaccines were fast-tracked but certainly not the final or definitive pronouncement of the war on covid-19 is over) and I ended my comments by relating my story of being subjected to a conspiratorial-political-science-denying-soliloquy by another patient in the doctor’s office waiting room – since my policy is usually never to discuss politics and religion with strangers – especially if they bring it up – I kept my cool and let this guy ramble and rant about his conspiratorial-political-nonsense – I just sat there and looked at my phone - giving him no indication that I was upset, bothered or agreed with him - and figured if he decides to get violent at least we’re in the doctor’s office so emergency medical response should be fairly quick
To which I received very odd replies:
in case the 2nd quote is not expanded - here it is in full: “The Doctor is also VERY smart. He knows that IF he came out and dismissed the covid vaccine and/or stated vitamin D as an alternative to the covid vax, he would be struck off the medical register and very likely be charged with an offence, not to mention the leftie media and other nut job covid cultists on him like blowflies on a fresh cow patty. How about it (said in an exxagerated VPW tone LMAO)”
These are some of the most fascinating posts for understanding conspiracy theorists and a harmful and controlling cult-like mindset:
Conspiracy theory:
“A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable. The term has a negative connotation, implying that the appeal to a conspiracy is based on prejudice or insufficient evidence. A conspiracy theory is not the same as a conspiracy; instead, it refers to a hypothesized conspiracy with specific characteristics, such as an opposition to the mainstream consensus among those people (such as scientists or historians) who are qualified to evaluate its accuracy.”
from: Wiki - conspiracy theory
Mindset:
“In decision theory and general systems theory, a mindset is a set of assumptions, methods, or notions held by one or more people or groups of people. A mindset can also be seen as arising out of a person's world view or philosophy of life.
A mindset may be so firmly established that it creates a powerful incentive within these people or groups to continue to adopt or accept prior behaviors, choices, or tools. The latter phenomenon is also sometimes described as mental inertia, "groupthink", and it is often difficult to counteract its effects upon analysis and decision making processes.
In cognitive psychology, a mindset represents the cognitive processes activated in response to a given task (French, 2016).”
from: Wiki - mindset
“A mindset is a belief that orients the way we handle situations—the way we sort out what is going on and what we should do. Our mindsets help us spot opportunities, but they can also trap us in self-defeating cycles.
This essay isn’t about all the beliefs we might hold. It is about the beliefs that make a difference in our lives—the beliefs that distinguish people who are successful at what they do versus those who continually struggle.
The Stanford University psychologist Carol Dweck (2006) popularized the idea of mindsets by contrasting different beliefs about where our abilities come from. If we have a fixed mindset and think that our ability is innate, then a failure can be unsettling because it makes us doubt how good we are. In contrast, if we have a growth mindset, then we expect that we can improve our ability—and a failure, therefore, shows us what we need to work on.
People with a fixed mindset are out to prove themselves, and may get very defensive when someone suggests they made a mistake—in other words, they measure themselves by their failures. People with a growth mindset, on the other hand, often show perseverance and resilience when they’ve committed errors—they become more motivated to work harder. You can imagine how much having a fixed or growth mindset can affect our lives.”
from: Psychology Today: seeing what others don't
I am inclined to think that conspiracy theories and a harmful and controlling cult-like mindset are often intertwined – I say this as I call to mind wierwille’s Advanced Class – he was a master at knitting together conspiratorial-spiritual- political-machinations-nonsense and those of us who esteemed him as the truly-enlightened-one-of-god-and-the-New-Knoxville-Gnostic-and-the-only-one-having-the-inside-scoop-for-this-day-and-time-and-hour bought into it all !
So in return I asked HOW did he know that in this post:
In response to my post, he resorts to vulgar-high-school-style-insults saying he recognized TWI was a cult while I was still licking LCM’s jockstrap – which I thought was odd but interesting for several reasons – besides being a fallacious personal attack against me (ad hominem fallacy) instead of attacking the actual issue– he also attempts to promote another lie - which I underlined in this quote - he says "I recognized TWI as a cult whilst you were still licking LCM's jockstrap, so that's a pretty weak argument lol. You and others have not yet made the 'connection' ...have you ?! What were TWI's three tenets of belief, their driving motive ?? MONEY, POWER, CONTROL = CULT....Big Pharma/Government ? MONEY, POWER, CONTROL...you're IN the covid cult and you do not even realise it !! Oh, and as for Dr. Seheult....look at the TIMELINE of his videos and what he is saying two years ago compared to things he has changed his stance on (sorry Twinks, you arse umed wrong) ...again.” …you can see his post here:
again, you’ll notice the conspiratorial-theory-effort to push politics and to accuse me of being in a covid cult…and to add doubt and confusion he says to check the timeline on Dr. Seheult’s position…well – no need for me to do that – I’m very familiar with what he said when, and do not find anything contrary to what he has said in the links I’ve posted earlier – matter of fact, here’s a few more to indicate his stance on the vaccine – here are some excerpts of an interview and associated links below them:
“The decision to get vaccinated in a pandemic is not a decision out of nothing. The situation is calling for it. It’s either you get vaccinated or get the infection.” – Dr. Roger Seheult
“The fact that we don’t have polio or smallpox today is a direct consequence of ancestors in this country and around the world. They decided on taking a vaccine to eliminate those diseases. We’ve effectively done that when we started to say that a vaccine is a choice for me.” – Dr. Roger Seheult
“We don’t know the long-term effects of vaccines because these effects would usually appear within the first two to three months. But having the virus has long-term effects, too. A study shows that some athletes still had signs of myocarditis after a mild or asymptomatic bout of COVID-19. … In vaccines’ case, it works because it allows our bodies to develop immunity against COVID-19. What most do not know is that anti-COVID vaccines contain attenuated protein from the virus itself. This prepares our immune system for what’s coming and [to] be ready for it with antibodies.” – Dr. Roger Seheult
“Do we know the long-term side effects of the vaccine? No, we don’t until … a long time, but we don’t know the virus’s long-term side effects either. But that may be different if somebody has horrible allergic reactions and anaphylaxis. I would not advise getting the vaccine because you’re at high risk for getting another allergic reaction. That’s a medical risk-benefit ratio” – Dr. Roger Seheult
On herd immunity the interviewer said this about Dr. Roger’s stance on vaccines:
“Dr. Roger believes that at this time, the best weapon that we have against COVID-19 is herd immunity. However, he explained that our hospitals and health system’s current situation is not enough for the needs of the infected people. In order to achieve herd immunity, we need the support of the vaccine to get there.”
from: podcast: facts about vaccines and improving immunity
podcast: use this science to boost immune system
podcast: facts about improving immunity
Personally, I do not take issue with this poster saying he realized TWI was a cult before I did. That may very well be true – but a matter that could be settled pretty quickly if he would reply to what I asked him in my next post; in it I asked a few simple questions:
What programs did you participate in and what responsibilities did you have up until the time you left TWI?
How long were you in TWI ?
What was your age when you left?
Why did you leave?
Did you join an offshoot?
I’m looking forward to his response to my questions - and I’m assuming he will be honest and accurate since Twinky said she already knows the answers but is letting him tell his story.
Just for the record – I am not disputing he may have realized TWI was a cult long before I did. What I am suggesting is the possibility that even though he may have left a cult before me, many of his posts on this thread seem to indicate a cult-like mindset has never left him. Someone remarked how different Grease Spot is from TWI. True that! These are open discussions – anyone can air their viewpoint and opinions. I don’t care what folks bring to the table – hopefully it’s something useful…but it does get old when someone brings table scraps and leftovers from wierwille’s Advanced Class and conspiracy theorists.
an old proverb comes to mind - people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones – meaning people who are vulnerable to criticism should not criticize others, especially not for the faults that they themselves have since such criticism will likely be returned. From: The Free Dictionary on idiom of people who live in glass houses
Edited by T-Bonetypos and formatting and adding links
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Rocky
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Rocky
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Edited by RockyDATA = FACTS
Recent Public health DATA from Cheyenne in the graphic in my post above.
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Rocky
And yet, you've "wasted" days and days arguing into the abyss onto this thread where nearly everyone is able to recognize there is ZERO substance to your arguments. Will you ever get that time back?
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Allan
over what period of time ? This graph tells me there were a total of 15 unvaccinated people in Cheyenne that were either a/ over 80 years old or b/ obese or 3/ had underlying health issues or...possibly all 3 !!...what I'm really saying is the 'stats' are not giving us all the 'facts'
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T-Bone
“ I bet you wrote like that when you were in twi to justify not leaving ??”
Honestly – this statement makes no sense and serves no purpose other than being another personal attack rather than addressing the points I brought up…and oddly enough you speak to some imaginary opponent – I can’t say for sure until you answer some of the questions I posed - twice now:
What programs did you participate in and what responsibilities did you have up until the time you left TWI?
How long were you in TWI ?
What was your age when you left?
Why did you leave?
Did you join an offshoot?
Please try to be honest and accurate – remember Twinky is reading this thread too
And for the record I will say that the way I think and write here on Grease Sport is diametrically opposed to how I was trained to think and write in the way corps – I’ve recalled here on many threads about my time in-residence being extremely laser-focused on knowing The Power For Abundant Living class material backwards and forwards. No exaggeration !!!!!!!
During the three meals we had each day in the dining room, we were randomly called upon to give a five minute teaching - right there on the spot – and immediately critiqued right after that. Even back then I was disturbed by one fact - that people who quoted PFAL material verbatim or with very little deviation from that, received the highest praise with little or no criticism... In preparation for doing our research papers, one day LCM was pounding on the podium and bellowing out “Don’t try to reinvent the wheel – base your research paper on something from PFAL” …if that’s how you imagine I think and write NOW on Grease Spot – you are grossly mistaken !!!! Your powers of discernment are zilch !
I guess you’ve never been in the way corps program to say something really stupid like that. Of course, I don’t know that for sure – until you answer those questions I asked earlier. So, for now I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume you haven’t been through the way corps program. And just to give you an idea for comparison of how I thought and wrote when I was in TWI – just open any one of wierwille’s books – when I was in TWI I was very disciplined and prided myself on reigning in any what TWI might label five-senses-worldly-logic-unbeliever-type rogue thoughts, essay concepts, teaching ideas which were contrary to what is in PFAL…so for all practical purposes I was a carbon copy of wierwille.
anyone who is even vaguely familiar with PFAL would see the stark difference between the PFAL material/TWI’s belief system/wierwille’s prognosticating and pontificating bull$hit and what I say here on Grease Spot.
I don’t know anything about you really…so maybe you’re just not familiar with PFAL, wierwille, LCM or the TWI-mindset…but that seems silly to me because you come across as having that same cult-like mindset I had while I was in TWI and it was heavily reenforced in the way corps program – with a predilection for conspiracy theories, logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and anything that makes one feel they have superior knowledge compared to the masses.
Now if you are familiar with the way corps program – because you went through it – well then that makes me think there’s a deeper issue that needs to be addressed…and let me say this – there’s no pressure here – currently I’m not really expecting to have an open and honest dialog with you at this discussion table – so don’t feel like you have to actually answer my questions or help clarify or correct my current take on you. The reason I’ve been putting my half-a-cent on this thread is for any disenchanted way corps out there who read Grease Spot.
Matter of fact, my primary target audience on Grease Spot is disenchanted way corps - whether or not they’re still active in TWI – and more specifically they all have a strong sense of disillusionment derived from the failure of TWI / the way corps program to fulfill its declared goals - and the perception of inconsistencies between the actions of certain TWI-leaders and the ideals they supposedly represent. These folks are my primary target audience because I understand and share similar feelings. The only big unresolved problem they may still have, is that they have not yet fully come to terms with the toxic legacy of wierwille…
From my own experience and in talking with other disenchanted way corps I’ve noticed in leaving an abusive, deceitful and exploitative organization like The Way International we have to deal with grief and loss.
I’ve found there are two well-known models for dealing with grief and loss. One is from Elisabeth Kübler-Ross a Swiss-American psychiatrist and a pioneer in near-death studies. She theorized there were 5 stages of grief but her studies were with people who were dying (terminally ill), not people who were grieving over the loss of a loved one. In her 1969 book “On Death and Dying” she proposed the 5 stages of grief and loss: 1. Denial and isolation, 2. Anger, 3. Bargaining, 4. Depression, and 5. Acceptance…I think there is some merit to her work although there’s a strong consensus among psychologists that people who are grieving over any kind of loss do not necessarily go through the stages in the same order or experience all of them.
Another model is from George Bonanno. His research is noted for contradicting Kübler-Ross’ 5 stages of grief. As a professor of clinical psychology at Columbia University, he conducted more than two decades of scientific studies on grief and trauma, which have been published in several papers of peer-reviewed journals in the field of psychology.
His studies came out of several thousand subjects and included people who have suffered losses in the U.S. and cross-cultural studies in various countries around the world. His subjects suffered losses through war, terrorism, deaths of children, premature deaths of spouses, sexual abuse, childhood diagnoses of AIDS, and other potentially devastating loss events or potential trauma events – such as losing a job, or one of the parents losing custody of a child through divorce, loss of a romantic relationship, loss of a pet, losing faith in one’s religion.
Bonanno’s findings indicate that natural resilience is a part of the human psyche, and that there are four possible paths one could take in dealing with grief and loss. Folks can get a little better idea of these two models as well as some other theories of dealing with grief and loss at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grief
sorry for the 20 minutes of your life that my post forced you to waste…maybe you could work on your speed-reading and comprehension skills …or just simply ignore my posts…
don’t you just love the freedom we have here? Unlike the contrived and stifling conversations, we had in TWI? Everyone parroting what wierwille established as truth. Those crippling-mind-numbing-habits I adopted while in TWI were never about exploring my faith, the Bible nor was it about expanding spiritual awareness…most folks like me never dared to challenge wierwille’s ideology...if wierwille was still alive today I wonder what he'd have to say about the pandemic and vaccines...yeah, I remember him saying cancer was a devil spirit.
Does any of this sound familiar? I don’t mean as a former follower of TWI. I ask that of anyone who subscribes to conspiracies theories. The mindsets bear an uncanny resemblance. I mean the a priori assumptions seem to be almost identical: reasoning and knowledge based on theoretical nonsense - disregarding facts and disparaging observation and experience, logic, science and experts in specific fields.
Edited by T-Bonebut hey, enough about me…this has been another public service message to disenchanted way corps and probably doesn’t concern you…anyway…see you around – or not – it doesn’t matter – it’s just a discussion – as you said: “ At the end of the day, it's all debate about whether the vax is more beneficial or harmful in the mid to long term…” yup – keep calm and carry on.
typos and formatting and the emoji factor !!!
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Rocky
I address this to whoever reads this.
Edited by ModgellanObviously, the graphIC shows ONE point in time. The things the Aussie claims the graphIC tells him are NOT facts. They are his false assumptions. IF he had even one iota of intellectual honesty or curiosity, he WOULD articulate his assumptions rather as questions and then seek out the answers to those questions.
The graph presents FACTS. The Aussie claims things that are neither specified, articulated, nor implied by the FACTS presented in the graphIC.
If anyone wants to find more facts or information to answer questions the reader may reasonably formulate based on the FACTS presented in the graphIC, I provided links to the healthcare facility so that any such questions can be directed to those at said facility who may provide additional insight.
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Modgellan
No politics
no disinformation
no apology from me.
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Allan
I'm simply saying that graph tells only a tiny fraction of the whole picture concerning deaths in Cheyenne...nothing about age, comorbidities, etc...it is pointless.
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Rocky
And I simply redirected your pointless ramblings such that if you have QUESTIONS about the facts presented, IF you have even one iota of intellectual honesty or curiosity, you would/could pursue answers to said questions. Nothing more, nothing less.
Edited by RockyThe graphIC presents DATA. DATA = FACT. If more FACTS are necessary to address your questions, I showed you where to direct those questions.
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Allan
I'm not interested in digging into that graph any further because I'm pretty sure I know what the answer is i.e. the 'status' of the patients..if it floats your boat, you present the full facts, thanks in advance.
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waysider
The graph is clearly dated at the bottom. These are the numbers for Monday, 11/15/2021. The link shows other days that offer some perspective. There is no (zero) information to indicate patient age or general health status. You have assumed these details in an effort to create a fictitious patient profile. This is dishonest and dangerous. If anything, there is a good chance these are a younger demographic than we saw in the early pandemic because a high percentage of the elderly have already been vaccinated. But, we don't know that for certain. I think it's a fair assumption, though.
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Allan
anything can be assumed, without the full facts...going by past statistics, I'd say they would be older, and/or health compromised people :)
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Rocky
Do you know anyone with ODD? Oppositional defiant disorder?
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waysider
Covid by age 11/10/2021:
HERE
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waysider
You're still trying to build a patient profile without any statistical evidence to justify your conclusion.
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Allan
Not trying to build anything at all, simply stating that the graph Rocky posted was missing major details.
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