The mRNA itself is a great idea but targeting what cells? The mRNA is encapsulated so they've got to have the right proteins to match the cell membrane for transport across, right?
I took it too mean mRNA versus pieces of the virus . . . sometimes I hear an argument about if it is really a vaccine . . . as far as I know it's still a vaccine . . . just not what most people are used to
It is really a vaccine. It was really a vaccine when one politician tried to take credit for it. It's still a vaccine regardless of anyone's political or religious views. It is more effective than the annual flu vaccine and as effective as the vaccines against chicken pox and measles. The difference is, you don't see people depriving themselves of THOSE vaccines because God gave them natural antibodies or the surgeon general at the time they were developed was a member of the All Night Party. The more people got it, the harder it was for the disease to spread. The disease jumped from one vaccinated person to the next until it just lost because so many people were vaccinated.
It is really a vaccine. It was really a vaccine when one politician tried to take credit for it. It's still a vaccine regardless of anyone's political or religious views. It is more effective than the annual flu vaccine and as effective as the vaccines against chicken pox and measles. The difference is, you don't see people depriving themselves of THOSE vaccines because God gave them natural antibodies or the surgeon general at the time they were developed was a member of the All Night Party. The more people got it, the harder it was for the disease to spread. The disease jumped from one vaccinated person to the next until it just lost because so many people were vaccinated.
Yes but how does it cross the cell membrane? Cells have boundaries. Without those boundaries the cell is pointless.
Is that where the $$$ really is?
You know what else ignores boundaries? Narcissists . .
You've got to deliver the mRNA without it being destroyed. Everytime we eat we are devouring mRNA . . . but we aren't worried about an mRNA messing up our cells.
The only thing that passes me off is that the word "vaccine" is in quotes in the thread title.
It works. It's the reason we were able to return to some normalcy.
You have a better chance of fighting off the disease after the vaccine than you do if you catch the disease and survive it.
You can argue faith v. science all you want, but putting "vaccine" in quotes is an act of utter ignorance.
Thanks for pointing that out, Raf ! It got me thinking about TWI’s magical-thinking-mindset… “Magical thinking, or superstitious thinking, is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them, particularly as a result of supernatural effects.” From: Wikipedia - magical thinking I fail to understand how one person’s natural recovery from Covid-19 translates into wondering if the vaccine is safe and then determining they don’t need it right now…what about all the people who have died from Covid-19? – see Our World in data: covid deaths
Sometimes ignorance likes to play with fire…recently I had my yearly physical with my doc and we usually get in some conversation about health issues in the news. Of course, we got into the pandemic and vaccines. He got very passionate about risks that anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers are taking and maybe just as dangerous is how that lack of safety measures allows the viruses to not just spread but also mutate – some variants becoming more deadly than previous virus strains. He made a big deal about the benefits of getting the majority of a population on board with measures to limit the spread of viruses which will reduce the possibilities of them evolving into something even harder to deal with.
Also see a July 19th article: “ Is it possible to prevent a virus from mutating? Well, you can't prevent the virus from mutating, but what you can do is limit the virus's spread, and in that way you reduce the chances that a mutation can emerge that is going to help the virus infect humans better.
Say, for example, it's a one in a million chance that a mutation will be advantageous to the virus. If you let the virus replicate itself 900,000 times, odds are that the advantageous mutation will occur. But if you limit the overall replication of the virus to 1,000 times, then it's much less likely that the random advantageous mutation is going to occur. And that's where public health interventions really help us a lot during this pandemic—by reducing the total amount of virus replication and therefore reducing the chances that the virus can improve or adapt.”
And here’s an article about another virus that spread in a similar way to Covid-19 and how it was eradicated:
“Smallpox – the only infectious disease we've ever eradicated…It was eradicated by a collaborative global vaccination programme led by the World Health Organization…The virus spreads in droplets, much like coronaviruses, and can be expelled into the air via coughing and sneezing. But it can also be passed on via the fluid from smallpox blisters. Typically, someone would need to have been in close proximity to an infected person before catching it themselves…The last known natural case was in Somalia in 1977…The following year, an accident in a research laboratory led to the death of one person from the disease, and in 1979 smallpox was officially declared eradicated.
Here’s an article that addresses those who are immunocompromised – and the threshold for herd immunity: “Effective herd immunity depends on vaccination. Because immunity varies with age and not everyone can get vaccinated — such as those who are immunocompromised, have specific allergies or pregnant women with certain types of vaccines — herd immunity is a crucial protective phenomenon.
To establish it, one important factor is the number of immunized people within a population has to be at a certain percentage or threshold. According to the WHO, this figure was eight out of every 10 people for smallpox, based on its early eradication effort.”
"Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or mass immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that can occur with some diseases when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination, thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity. Immune individuals are unlikely to contribute to disease transmission, disrupting chains of infection, which stops or slows the spread of disease. The greater the proportion of immune individuals in a community, the smaller the probability that non-immune individuals will come into contact with an infectious individual.
Individuals can become immune by recovering from an earlier infection or through vaccination. Some individuals cannot become immune because of medical conditions, such as an immunodeficiency or immunosuppression, and for this group herd immunity is a crucial method of protection. Once the herd immunity threshold has been reached, disease gradually disappears from a population. This elimination, if achieved worldwide, may result in the permanent reduction in the number of infections to zero, called eradication. Herd immunity created via vaccination contributed to the eventual eradication of smallpox in 1977 and has contributed to the reduction of other diseases. Herd immunity applies only to contagious disease, meaning that it is transmitted from one individual to another. Tetanus, for example, is infectious but not contagious, so herd immunity does not apply."
I think 5000 for the average person is good... I take 10,000 because I've had gastric bypass surgery and they say that procedure can cause vitamin deficiencies so I take more across the board. Also have a prescription of 50,000 Vitamin D that is to be taken once a week. Also, I have my vitamin levels checked 3 times a year thru blood test to make sure the levels all are correct. I must do this as part of my medical regimen. Thx.
Again, what is information and/or disinformation ?? Is it in the eye of the beholder ? Does it take more than merely reading the headlines ? Latest medical advice is that the covid shots immunity only lasts 3-6 months....that's why they're rolling out the 'booster' shots....how long do they last ? Again, medical advice is their effectiveness wanes after around 4-6 months. Has anyone wondered aloud how long are people going to keep lining up for booster shots ? A year ? 2 ? 10 ? the rest of your natural life ? Will they introduce billing for it at some point ? I think big pharma shares would be the way to go at this rate, yeah ? lol...
For perspective: FLU shots.
In retrospect: speculation about share prices is meaningless.
Never wear a helmet . . . cause God gave you a skull.
"God-given" doesn't immediately mean supernatural cause. It can just be an expression for something else.
Maybe someone will clarify.
if I say something was God-given doesn’t that assume God is a supernatural being? But that's beside the point - If you were asking because of my post mentioning magical thinking – then let me elaborate on what I said…– referring again to the Wikipedia definition – it says:
“Magical thinking, or superstitious thinking, is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them, particularly as a result of supernatural effects.” The last part indicates a variable “particularly as a result of supernatural effects” in other words “particularly” means “to a higher degree than is usual or average” . Magical thinking doesn’t ALWAYS have to incorporate belief in something supernatural being involved in the event…the essence of magical thinking is the disconnect from the real world of cause and effect – which is exactly opposite what the scientific method is all about – a lot of experimentation and observation…which is why we have warning labels on tobacco products:
"In 1981 the FTC issued a report to Congress that concluded health warning labels had little effect on public knowledge and attitudes about smoking. As a result of this report, Congress enacted the Comprehensive Smoking Education Act of 1984 (Public Law 98–474), which required four specific health warnings on all cigarette packages and advertisements:
SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Smoking Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, and May Complicate Pregnancy.
SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Quitting Smoking Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks to Your Health.
SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Smoking by Pregnant Women May Result in Fetal Injury, Premature Birth, and Low Birth Weight.
By the mid-1980s scientific evidence revealed that smokeless tobacco use causes oral cancer, nicotine addiction, and other health problems. The Comprehensive Smokeless Tobacco Health Education Act of 1986 (Public Law 99–252) required three rotating warning labels on smokeless tobacco packaging and advertisements:
WARNING: This product may cause mouth cancer.
WARNING: This product may cause gum disease and tooth loss.
WARNING: This product is not a safe alternative to cigarettes."
I remember wierwille claiming his believing allowed him to smoke cigarettes without getting cancer. If you recall wierwille taught in PFAL the law of believing worked for saint and sinner alike. It actually took God out of the picture – he likened the law of believing to the laws of physics – it didn’t matter if you believed in God or not – you combine 2 parts of Hydrogen with 1 part of Oxygen you get water every time. wierwille taught that the causal link to his immunity to cancer - even though he smoked like a fiend - was his believing.
Going for my booster jab tomorrow. Yes, I believe God to keep me safe - and to keep others safe.
I believe I have a great natural immune system, to which loads of fresh fruit and veg, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle contribute. I also believe God gave me the common sense to take reasonable precautions. I continue to wear a mask in shops, etc, and gel my hands wherever possible (even though these actions are no longer legally required) - and (though I'm needle-phobic), I get necessary inoculations.
No way am I giving this virus to any of the many very elderly people that I know. (Don't want it myself, either.)
if I say something was God-given doesn’t that assume God is a supernatural being? But that's beside the point - If you were asking because of my post mentioning magical thinking – then let me elaborate on what I said…– referring again to the Wikipedia definition – it says:
“Magical thinking, or superstitious thinking, is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them, particularly as a result of supernatural effects.” The last part indicates a variable “particularly as a result of supernatural effects” in other words “particularly” means “to a higher degree than is usual or average” . Magical thinking doesn’t ALWAYS have to incorporate belief in something supernatural being involved in the event…the essence of magical thinking is the disconnect from the real world of cause and effect – which is exactly opposite what the scientific method is all about – a lot of experimentation and observation…which is why we have warning labels on tobacco products:
. . . .
I remember wierwille claiming his believing allowed him to smoke cigarettes without getting cancer. If you recall wierwille taught in PFAL the law of believing worked for saint and sinner alike. It actually took God out of the picture – he likened the law of believing to the laws of physics – it didn’t matter if you believed in God or not – you combine 2 parts of Hydrogen with 1 part of Oxygen you get water every time. wierwille taught that the causal link to his immunity to cancer - even though he smoked like a fiend - was his believing.
WOW, this is allowed... so far so good. I had Covid-19 around the end of July... was sick for about a week with all the symptoms (very tired, fever, coughing, loss of taste and smell) stayed home and recovered naturally. Couple of wks later went to the Dr. who suggested that I get a Covid-19 antibody blood test, which I did, and it came back positive. I had antibodies but was told sometime later that there is a "quantatative" antibody test that shows a numeral value.. which is something I'd like to get soon. Right now I've got natural God-given antibodies, so whether or not the vaccine is safe, I don't need to get one. I do continue to take high doses of Vitamin D (10,000 a day) plus Vitamin C, zinc and Ivermectin once a wk for maintenance. This regimen works for me and would be interested to know how folks here are doing.
I'm not specifically seeing superstitious thinking. Maybe there is.
If vaccines are seen as about the GROUP . . . and I think what Oldies is getting at is the INDIVIDUAL . . . which is a lot of the argument I think
This gets into types of rights . . . because some rights - like medical care - are about telling others what to do
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Bolshevik
This mRNA technology sounds like it's going to open the door to many new solutions, so that's fascinating. However, joining a cult like The Way is like a type of addiction. There is no vaccine e
Bolshevik
Nearly 7 out of 10 Americans have at least one dose. Nearly 6 out of 10 are fully vaccinated. Boosters are available for certain groups but not everyone at this time. Children 5 - 11 can be
Twinky
Going for my booster jab tomorrow. Yes, I believe God to keep me safe - and to keep others safe. I believe I have a great natural immune system, to which loads of fresh fruit and veg, exercise,
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Bolshevik
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Bolshevik
The mRNA itself is a great idea but targeting what cells? The mRNA is encapsulated so they've got to have the right proteins to match the cell membrane for transport across, right?
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Bolshevik
At about 2:12 into the video it just magically crosses . . .
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Raf
It is really a vaccine. It was really a vaccine when one politician tried to take credit for it. It's still a vaccine regardless of anyone's political or religious views. It is more effective than the annual flu vaccine and as effective as the vaccines against chicken pox and measles. The difference is, you don't see people depriving themselves of THOSE vaccines because God gave them natural antibodies or the surgeon general at the time they were developed was a member of the All Night Party. The more people got it, the harder it was for the disease to spread. The disease jumped from one vaccinated person to the next until it just lost because so many people were vaccinated.
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Oakspear
Thank you
I was just about ask why it was in quotes
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Bolshevik
Yes but how does it cross the cell membrane? Cells have boundaries. Without those boundaries the cell is pointless.
Is that where the $$$ really is?
You know what else ignores boundaries? Narcissists . .
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Bolshevik
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Bolshevik
You've got to deliver the mRNA without it being destroyed. Everytime we eat we are devouring mRNA . . . but we aren't worried about an mRNA messing up our cells.
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Bolshevik
Look at all the options
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7744276/
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Bolshevik
. . . . I wasn't informative. I asked a question.
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T-Bone
Thanks for pointing that out, Raf ! It got me thinking about TWI’s magical-thinking-mindset… “Magical thinking, or superstitious thinking, is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them, particularly as a result of supernatural effects.” From: Wikipedia - magical thinking I fail to understand how one person’s natural recovery from Covid-19 translates into wondering if the vaccine is safe and then determining they don’t need it right now…what about all the people who have died from Covid-19? – see Our World in data: covid deaths
Sometimes ignorance likes to play with fire…recently I had my yearly physical with my doc and we usually get in some conversation about health issues in the news. Of course, we got into the pandemic and vaccines. He got very passionate about risks that anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers are taking and maybe just as dangerous is how that lack of safety measures allows the viruses to not just spread but also mutate – some variants becoming more deadly than previous virus strains. He made a big deal about the benefits of getting the majority of a population on board with measures to limit the spread of viruses which will reduce the possibilities of them evolving into something even harder to deal with.
Also see a July 19th article:
“ Is it possible to prevent a virus from mutating? Well, you can't prevent the virus from mutating, but what you can do is limit the virus's spread, and in that way you reduce the chances that a mutation can emerge that is going to help the virus infect humans better.
Say, for example, it's a one in a million chance that a mutation will be advantageous to the virus. If you let the virus replicate itself 900,000 times, odds are that the advantageous mutation will occur. But if you limit the overall replication of the virus to 1,000 times, then it's much less likely that the random advantageous mutation is going to occur. And that's where public health interventions really help us a lot during this pandemic—by reducing the total amount of virus replication and therefore reducing the chances that the virus can improve or adapt.”
from: delta variants
And here’s an article about another virus that spread in a similar way to Covid-19 and how it was eradicated:
“Smallpox – the only infectious disease we've ever eradicated…It was eradicated by a collaborative global vaccination programme led by the World Health Organization…The virus spreads in droplets, much like coronaviruses, and can be expelled into the air via coughing and sneezing. But it can also be passed on via the fluid from smallpox blisters. Typically, someone would need to have been in close proximity to an infected person before catching it themselves…The last known natural case was in Somalia in 1977…The following year, an accident in a research laboratory led to the death of one person from the disease, and in 1979 smallpox was officially declared eradicated.
from: how smallpox was successfully eradicated
Here’s an article that addresses those who are immunocompromised – and the threshold for herd immunity:
“Effective herd immunity depends on vaccination. Because immunity varies with age and not everyone can get vaccinated — such as those who are immunocompromised, have specific allergies or pregnant women with certain types of vaccines — herd immunity is a crucial protective phenomenon.
To establish it, one important factor is the number of immunized people within a population has to be at a certain percentage or threshold. According to the WHO, this figure was eight out of every 10 people for smallpox, based on its early eradication effort.”
from: fact check on vaccination helping to eliminate smallpox
and last - some info on herd immunity:
"Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or mass immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that can occur with some diseases when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination, thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity. Immune individuals are unlikely to contribute to disease transmission, disrupting chains of infection, which stops or slows the spread of disease. The greater the proportion of immune individuals in a community, the smaller the probability that non-immune individuals will come into contact with an infectious individual.
Individuals can become immune by recovering from an earlier infection or through vaccination. Some individuals cannot become immune because of medical conditions, such as an immunodeficiency or immunosuppression, and for this group herd immunity is a crucial method of protection. Once the herd immunity threshold has been reached, disease gradually disappears from a population. This elimination, if achieved worldwide, may result in the permanent reduction in the number of infections to zero, called eradication. Herd immunity created via vaccination contributed to the eventual eradication of smallpox in 1977 and has contributed to the reduction of other diseases. Herd immunity applies only to contagious disease, meaning that it is transmitted from one individual to another. Tetanus, for example, is infectious but not contagious, so herd immunity does not apply."
from: Wikipedia - herd immunity
Edited by T-Bonetypos and formatting
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Bolshevik
Never wear a helmet . . . cause God gave you a skull.
"God-given" doesn't immediately mean supernatural cause. It can just be an expression for something else.
Maybe someone will clarify.
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Rocky
I understand.
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modcat5
No politics.
No warnings.
No apologies.
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Rocky
For perspective: FLU shots.
In retrospect: speculation about share prices is meaningless.
Bottom line: the covid-19 vaccines save lives.
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T-Bone
if I say something was God-given doesn’t that assume God is a supernatural being? But that's beside the point - If you were asking because of my post mentioning magical thinking – then let me elaborate on what I said…– referring again to the Wikipedia definition – it says:
“Magical thinking, or superstitious thinking, is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them, particularly as a result of supernatural effects.” The last part indicates a variable “particularly as a result of supernatural effects” in other words “particularly” means “to a higher degree than is usual or average” . Magical thinking doesn’t ALWAYS have to incorporate belief in something supernatural being involved in the event…the essence of magical thinking is the disconnect from the real world of cause and effect – which is exactly opposite what the scientific method is all about – a lot of experimentation and observation…which is why we have warning labels on tobacco products:
"In 1981 the FTC issued a report to Congress that concluded health warning labels had little effect on public knowledge and attitudes about smoking. As a result of this report, Congress enacted the Comprehensive Smoking Education Act of 1984 (Public Law 98–474), which required four specific health warnings on all cigarette packages and advertisements:
SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Smoking Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, and May Complicate Pregnancy.
SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Quitting Smoking Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks to Your Health.
SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Smoking by Pregnant Women May Result in Fetal Injury, Premature Birth, and Low Birth Weight.
SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Cigarette Smoke Contains Carbon Monoxide.
By the mid-1980s scientific evidence revealed that smokeless tobacco use causes oral cancer, nicotine addiction, and other health problems. The Comprehensive Smokeless Tobacco Health Education Act of 1986 (Public Law 99–252) required three rotating warning labels on smokeless tobacco packaging and advertisements:
WARNING: This product may cause mouth cancer.
WARNING: This product may cause gum disease and tooth loss.
WARNING: This product is not a safe alternative to cigarettes."
from: gov warning
I remember wierwille claiming his believing allowed him to smoke cigarettes without getting cancer. If you recall wierwille taught in PFAL the law of believing worked for saint and sinner alike. It actually took God out of the picture – he likened the law of believing to the laws of physics – it didn’t matter if you believed in God or not – you combine 2 parts of Hydrogen with 1 part of Oxygen you get water every time. wierwille taught that the causal link to his immunity to cancer - even though he smoked like a fiend - was his believing.
Edited by T-Bonetypos and formatting
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Twinky
Going for my booster jab tomorrow. Yes, I believe God to keep me safe - and to keep others safe.
I believe I have a great natural immune system, to which loads of fresh fruit and veg, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle contribute. I also believe God gave me the common sense to take reasonable precautions. I continue to wear a mask in shops, etc, and gel my hands wherever possible (even though these actions are no longer legally required) - and (though I'm needle-phobic), I get necessary inoculations.
No way am I giving this virus to any of the many very elderly people that I know. (Don't want it myself, either.)
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Bolshevik
http://www.ithinkwell.org/autism-correlation-does-not-equal-correlation/
Probably related . . .
Edited by Bolshevikcause for edit unrelated to the reason
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modcat5
WTF?
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Bolshevik
I believe Oldies brought up "God-given" and that appears to be taken multiple ways.
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modcat5
Ok
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Bolshevik
I'm not specifically seeing superstitious thinking. Maybe there is.
If vaccines are seen as about the GROUP . . . and I think what Oldies is getting at is the INDIVIDUAL . . . which is a lot of the argument I think
This gets into types of rights . . . because some rights - like medical care - are about telling others what to do
Edited by Bolshevikspelling
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T-Bone
Yes -I think so
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Twinky
Got it done! Pfizer (first two were AstraZeneca). All well - my arm isn't even sore where stabbed!
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