One of the things I see Wierwille doing time after time is basing some aspect of his teaching on someone like Bullinger, but completely misunderstanding the point. Here's an example that I found that I posted on the "Snow Job" thread some years ago:
Quote
Wierwille taught in The Word's Way (not sure if it made it into PFAL itself) chapter "The Lord's Brethren" that the brothers of Jesus specifically named in the gospels could not have been Joseph's sons from a previous marriage. His reasoning was that an older brother would have invalidated Jesus' claim to the throne of David. The only problem with that was that in another collateral chapter "The Geneology of Jesus" Wierwille teaches that the geneology in Matthew, the "royal" geneology is Mary's, while the geneology in Luke is Joseph's. Therefore, the existance of any of Joseph's older sons would be irrelevant to any claim to the throne of David.
If one looks through Bullinger's appendixes and come to the one regarding the Lord's Brethren, one would see that Bullinger states the same thing that Wierwille did, dismissing the possibility that James, Joses, Simon and Judas were Jesus' older half-brothers by Joseph's first wife, since their existance would invalidate Jesus' claim to the Davidic throne. However, Bullinger wrote in his appendixes that he believed that the geneology in Matthew was Joseph's, and the one in Luke was Mary's, making his position consistant at least.
To me it looks like Wierwille simply parrotted what Bullinger said about the brethren, without fully understanding Bullinger's reasoning behind it, and subsequently making no sense. Just one of several examples where Wierwille apparently didn't understand what Bullinger was saying, but liked his conclusions.
One of the things I see Wierwille doing time after time is basing some aspect of his teaching on someone like Bullinger, but completely misunderstanding the point. Here's an example that I found that I posted on the "Snow Job" thread some years ago:
I think it's what's called "narcissist mirroring". He's copying like a child copies an adult, but lacking the ability to develop his own identity he just looks like a copy-cat. Completely unable to "make it his own" as is said in TWI and ever really understand. No sunesis going on.
The WAP class I believe made fun of those out there who "parrot" their teachers . . . but that's exactly what TWI teaches it's followers to do.
I take no pleasure in exposing TWIs iniquity. Mostly distance from it helps me personally. But without it exposed history repeats and a new generation of lives end up just like the last one with 98% of graduated leadership in the org not associating themselves any longer due to cult like operations and control and false doctrine eroding basic family values.
They continue to lie and whitewash because their standard of living and income and power and influence would not be what it is without that.
As I read through I noticed one more discrepancy. VP in one work speaks of his first receiving into manifestation Holy Spirit (autocorrect caps that) in his office in Payne Ohio where God told him the teach him Word 1st century line. But in another area it is the JE Stiles story at Oral Robert’s Tulsa Oklahoma convention. Which was the first RHST practiced by VP?
Something that transformational for him and all subsequent cult followers should be even more clear than 4 crucified or the day Jesus died, no?
Also, I at one time owned a copy of JE Stiles book on the Holy Spirit, and can personally say that my assessment was over 70% of the RHST book was directly copied from Stiles book. VPs account of writing the RHST book involve checking into a motel and existing on a diet of grapes for 10 days.
I wonder if the diet was a subconscious attempt to cleanse himself from the plagiarism lol.
As I read through I noticed one more discrepancy. VP in one work speaks of his first receiving into manifestation Holy Spirit (autocorrect caps that) in his office in Payne Ohio where God told him the teach him Word 1st century line. But in another area it is the JE Stiles story at Oral Robert’s Tulsa Oklahoma convention. Which was the first RHST practiced by VP?
Something that transformational for him and all subsequent cult followers should be even more clear than 4 crucified or the day Jesus died, no?
I don't recall him saying he SIT'd first in his Payne office; do you recall where he said that? I would not at all be surprised if he contradicted himself on this though.
Also, I at one time owned a copy of JE Stiles book on the Holy Spirit, and can personally say that my assessment was over 70% of the RHST book was directly copied from Stiles book. VPs account of writing the RHST book involve checking into a motel and existing on a diet of grapes for 10 days.
I wonder if the diet was a subconscious attempt to cleanse himself from the plagiarism lol.
This has the makings of a movie – Grapes of Wrath 2: Lie Harder. (alright so I plagiarized from the Die Hard film series... ... guess I should try harder )…in case you slept through some of your high school classes The Grapes of Wrath is a John Steinbeck novel published in 1939. The story is set during the Great Depression and focuses on the Joads a poor family of tenant farmers driven from their Oklahoma home by drought, economic hardship, agriculture industry changes and bank foreclosures. Due to their nearly hopeless situation and being trapped in the Dust Bowl, the Joads set out for California along with thousands of other “Okies” seeking jobs, land, dignity and a future.
In Grapes of Wrath 2: Lie Harder the story is set some 18 or 28 years or days and times and hours later and focuses on wierwille a pathological liar and a poor excuse for a pastor who had resigned (or was fired) from the Van Wert Church and driven from a clear conscience by an exceeding abundantly above normal desire for fame, fortune, power and pleasure set out to build his own cult - which wound up being in his own backyard - the family farm (how convenient) along with thousands of followers including one Okie who for a short time took over this Mickey Mouse operation. In the film adaptation, there are no credits at the end of the movie because wierwille always takes all the credit...the moral of the story? wierwille came into his own by what other people own. Plagiarism is the key to success...If at first you don't succeed, lie, lie, and lie again.
Edited by T-Bone Typos and Formatting 2: Edit Harder
I take no pleasure in exposing TWIs iniquity. Mostly distance from it helps me personally. But without it exposed history repeats and a new generation of lives end up just like the last one with 98% of graduated leadership in the org not associating themselves any longer due to cult like operations and control and false doctrine eroding basic family values.
They continue to lie and whitewash because their standard of living and income and power and influence would not be what it is without that.
in this sense they are the true children of VP
Why it's almost like knowing that the love of money is the root of all evil!
The Payne quote was from the Elena Whiteside thread maybe her book but a couple others referenced there...
I know, they could fix everything with the word faux. Faux is popular, faux is in style, faux is the sizzle! Faux is the plagiarists key whitewash word to keep the truth in things.
The Way of Faux Abundance and Faux Power
Faux Power for Faux Abundant Living
Wait I see the problem. The truth in advertising causes it to lose it's appeal...
Why it's almost like knowing that the love of money is the root of all evil!
Vankin pointed out NPDs want to extract money from people for Narcissistic Supply. Once they have the money taken from others, that money has already served its purpose.
As I read through I noticed one more discrepancy. VP in one work speaks of his first receiving into manifestation Holy Spirit (autocorrect caps that) in his office in Payne Ohio where God told him the teach him Word 1st century line. But in another area it is the JE Stiles story at Oral Robert’s Tulsa Oklahoma convention. Which was the first RHST practiced by VP?
Something that transformational for him and all subsequent cult followers should be even more clear than 4 crucified or the day Jesus died, no?
Also, I at one time owned a copy of JE Stiles book on the Holy Spirit, and can personally say that my assessment was over 70% of the RHST book was directly copied from Stiles book. VPs account of writing the RHST book involve checking into a motel and existing on a diet of grapes for 10 days.
I wonder if the diet was a subconscious attempt to cleanse himself from the plagiarism lol.
The office in Payne, Ohio is supposedly where he kept considering whether to quit as a minister in his first 2 years of that career. It's supposedly where he told God that he'd quit if he didn't have some definite answers he could rely on. Supposedly, that's when he got the 1942 promise (which, obviously, was a lie because it failed on many levels.) Either the next day or the next instant (his accounts varied) he asked God to confirm this with the snow. Supposedly, the view out the window was completely blocked by snow, either completely black or completely white (his accounts varied.)
As for SIT, all of his accounts trace that to the convention where he claimed the other snow job, and JE Stiles working with him for hours (like one does with a remedial student as opposed to someone exceptional who may need a few minutes.)
Supposedly, that's when he got the 1942 promise (which, obviously, was a lie because it failed on many levels.)
According to Dr. Peter A Olsson, a psychiatrist and the author of Malignant Pied Pipers of Our Time, the origin (false) myth is typical of malignant narcissists who start cults. Olsson suggests these myths arise out of what he calls "dark epiphanies" in the lives of the cult leader.
The office in Payne, Ohio is supposedly where he kept considering whether to quit as a minister in his first 2 years of that career. It's supposedly where he told God that he'd quit if he didn't have some definite answers he could rely on. Supposedly, that's when he got the 1942 promise (which, obviously, was a lie because it failed on many levels.) Either the next day or the next instant (his accounts varied) he asked God to confirm this with the snow. Supposedly, the view out the window was completely blocked by snow, either completely black or completely white (his accounts varied.)
As for SIT, all of his accounts trace that to the convention where he claimed the other snow job, and JE Stiles working with him for hours (like one does with a remedial student as opposed to someone exceptional who may need a few minutes.)
It's almost like you need to use scripture buildup principles from PFAL to really understand the full scope of all the snow jobs.
All cults need an Origen story. This is one where there is an explanation of how traditional paths failed the cult originator and now the true path and true believers and true leaders and true household are in the new cult.
. . .
Accepting a major premise leads to accepting the conclusion.
I heard the term "idealized past" today. Similar to nostalgia.
VPW used the phrase "teaching The Word like it hasn't been known since the first century". Hearkening back to a more ideal time. Accepting the phrase means you are immediately taking "The Word" and putting it on a pedestal. That fast.
The phrase, I think, diverts one's mind away from asking "what does he mean by TheWord?" . . . Because The Word has already been accepted as the ideal to aim at. It was done before and we're gonna do it again . . . So no need to consider what that means.
Recommended Posts
Oakspear
One of the things I see Wierwille doing time after time is basing some aspect of his teaching on someone like Bullinger, but completely misunderstanding the point. Here's an example that I found that I posted on the "Snow Job" thread some years ago:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
I think it's what's called "narcissist mirroring". He's copying like a child copies an adult, but lacking the ability to develop his own identity he just looks like a copy-cat. Completely unable to "make it his own" as is said in TWI and ever really understand. No sunesis going on.
The WAP class I believe made fun of those out there who "parrot" their teachers . . . but that's exactly what TWI teaches it's followers to do.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Re reading this thread. It is so fricken good and paints a complete factual picture with all your content added.
GS fam rocks
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
I take no pleasure in exposing TWIs iniquity. Mostly distance from it helps me personally. But without it exposed history repeats and a new generation of lives end up just like the last one with 98% of graduated leadership in the org not associating themselves any longer due to cult like operations and control and false doctrine eroding basic family values.
They continue to lie and whitewash because their standard of living and income and power and influence would not be what it is without that.
in this sense they are the true children of VP
Edited by chockfullLink to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
As I read through I noticed one more discrepancy. VP in one work speaks of his first receiving into manifestation Holy Spirit (autocorrect caps that) in his office in Payne Ohio where God told him the teach him Word 1st century line. But in another area it is the JE Stiles story at Oral Robert’s Tulsa Oklahoma convention. Which was the first RHST practiced by VP?
Something that transformational for him and all subsequent cult followers should be even more clear than 4 crucified or the day Jesus died, no?
Also, I at one time owned a copy of JE Stiles book on the Holy Spirit, and can personally say that my assessment was over 70% of the RHST book was directly copied from Stiles book. VPs account of writing the RHST book involve checking into a motel and existing on a diet of grapes for 10 days.
I wonder if the diet was a subconscious attempt to cleanse himself from the plagiarism lol.
Edited by chockfullLink to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
I don't recall him saying he SIT'd first in his Payne office; do you recall where he said that? I would not at all be surprised if he contradicted himself on this though.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
This has the makings of a movie – Grapes of Wrath 2: Lie Harder. (alright so I plagiarized from the Die Hard film series... ... guess I should try harder
)…in case you slept through some of your high school classes The Grapes of Wrath is a John Steinbeck novel published in 1939. The story is set during the Great Depression and focuses on the Joads a poor family of tenant farmers driven from their Oklahoma home by drought, economic hardship, agriculture industry changes and bank foreclosures. Due to their nearly hopeless situation and being trapped in the Dust Bowl, the Joads set out for California along with thousands of other “Okies” seeking jobs, land, dignity and a future.
Edited by T-BoneIn Grapes of Wrath 2: Lie Harder the story is set some 18 or 28 years or days and times and hours later and focuses on wierwille a pathological liar and a poor excuse for a pastor who had resigned (or was fired) from the Van Wert Church and driven from a clear conscience by an exceeding abundantly above normal desire for fame, fortune, power and pleasure set out to build his own cult - which wound up being in his own backyard - the family farm (how convenient) along with thousands of followers including one Okie who for a short time took over this Mickey Mouse operation. In the film adaptation, there are no credits at the end of the movie because wierwille always takes all the credit...the moral of the story? wierwille came into his own by what other people own. Plagiarism is the key to success...If at first you don't succeed, lie, lie, and lie again.
Typos and Formatting 2: Edit Harder
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Why it's almost like knowing that the love of money is the root of all evil!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Lmao TBone.
The Payne quote was from the Elena Whiteside thread maybe her book but a couple others referenced there...
I know, they could fix everything with the word faux. Faux is popular, faux is in style, faux is the sizzle! Faux is the plagiarists key whitewash word to keep the truth in things.
The Way of Faux Abundance and Faux Power
Faux Power for Faux Abundant Living
Wait I see the problem. The truth in advertising causes it to lose it's appeal...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Vankin pointed out NPDs want to extract money from people for Narcissistic Supply. Once they have the money taken from others, that money has already served its purpose.
Just . . . Interesting
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
The office in Payne, Ohio is supposedly where he kept considering whether to quit as a minister in his first 2 years of that career. It's supposedly where he told God that he'd quit if he didn't have some definite answers he could rely on. Supposedly, that's when he got the 1942 promise (which, obviously, was a lie because it failed on many levels.) Either the next day or the next instant (his accounts varied) he asked God to confirm this with the snow. Supposedly, the view out the window was completely blocked by snow, either completely black or completely white (his accounts varied.)
As for SIT, all of his accounts trace that to the convention where he claimed the other snow job, and JE Stiles working with him for hours (like one does with a remedial student as opposed to someone exceptional who may need a few minutes.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
According to Dr. Peter A Olsson, a psychiatrist and the author of Malignant Pied Pipers of Our Time, the origin (false) myth is typical of malignant narcissists who start cults. Olsson suggests these myths arise out of what he calls "dark epiphanies" in the lives of the cult leader.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
It's almost like you need to use scripture buildup principles from PFAL to really understand the full scope of all the snow jobs.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
I heard the term "idealized past" today. Similar to nostalgia.
VPW used the phrase "teaching The Word like it hasn't been known since the first century". Hearkening back to a more ideal time. Accepting the phrase means you are immediately taking "The Word" and putting it on a pedestal. That fast.
The phrase, I think, diverts one's mind away from asking "what does he mean by The Word?" . . . Because The Word has already been accepted as the ideal to aim at. It was done before and we're gonna do it again . . . So no need to consider what that means.
Let's make The Word Known Again.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.