I have been reading some articles on the forum, and I have seen that they have talked about VP manipulating or distorting the bible, I would like to know what these main distortions were? (please put a source). Thank you.
PS: Sorry if the text is a bit strange, it is that English is not my main language and I have to use a translator!
Hi Amazing T and welcome to Grease Spot. That's a great question! If you are a graduate of the Power For Abundant Living Class - (or PFAL ) then I will direct you back to that as being the source you requested. What you will find here on Grease Spot is some good collective analysis of PFAL as well as other classes, teachings and written material by wierwille on a number of threads.
I'm sure others will chime in to answer your question...but let me give you a link to a great thread that might be what you're looking for:
I have been reading some articles on the forum, and I have seen that they have talked about VP manipulating or distorting the bible, I would like to know what these main distortions were? (please put a source). Thank you.
PS: Sorry if the text is a bit strange, it is that English is not my main language and I have to use a translator!
It is also important to recognize that what's on the thread that T-Bone linked to is not necessarily a complete or exhaustive list.
That thread is a good starting point. That thread is not all the verses wierwille used wrongly. My usual rule is that any doctrine vpw stated that had only one verse justifying it, or even less than one verse, was almost certainly error and needed to be studied carefully.
By the way, what's your main language? If one of us knows it, you might find it easier to communicate with us in that, at least sometimes. If it's Spanish (for example), we do have a few posters who know some Spanish.
Unfortunately there are so many scriptures that are given a slant, or twisted, that it's almost impossible to say what isn't twisted. Because once indoctrinated through PFAL (or its equivalent in your language), that colours what you see, read, hear and understand later. Mostly, the Old Testament is okay to just read and accept at face value. And the book of Revelation, which wasn't well understood in TWI.
It is true to say that TWI isn't the only "religious" organisation that puts a twist or a slant on different Bible verses and passages, and uses the Bible to promote a point of view that isn't Godly (ie, passages are carefully chosen to support their own PoV). But TWI did this in a comprehensively deceptive and divisive manner. Perhaps not everything they taught or teach is wrong. But everything needs to be viewed with some suspicion and checked against more reliable resources - there are plenty of online Bible search tools and commentaries. It's time to exercise those dulled critical thinking skills!
Wierwille was the king of making mountains out of molehills. How many were crucified with Christ? 2 or 4? See mainstream Christianity can't even get it right with details of Christs death and resurrection. So trust us instead of them because we are more accurate.
If you read about the Pharisees in the Bible you get a good picture of how Way leadership operates. But they hide this with good words and fair speeches.
Don't buy their major premise. Insignificant details in scripture are just that. Insignificant details. Not a reason to follow a cult.
Apart from "It really doesn't matter," it could have been any number. Roman hierarchy once crucified about 6,000 people at once. Frequently there were mass crucifixions in the tens or even hundreds. The gruesome process wasn't a "one or two at a time" task. It must have taken a special kind of soldier mentality to do a lot of these executions.
Jesus could have been in the middle of a long row, one of several rows. There could have been people at the right, the left, before and behind him. We have no idea how close together the crosses were. Maybe a couple of feet, rather than a couple of metres (or yards). I would think, fairly close together, but only because such weakened men would have found it hard to conduct any kind of conversation after even just 10 minutes, and there does appear to have been some gasping chat between themselves.
Splitting hairs about it is actually a way of obscuring what Christ willingly did: surrendered his life for those he wanted to save. Surrendered his will to that of the God who he claimed sent him.
Whether you regard Jesus as a hero or a madman, nothing (and especially not VPW's hair-splitting) negates the willing self-sacrifice of this horrendous death.
And that splitting of hairs is a big thing with what TWI did to distort and twist scriptures. Focus on minutiae, and overlook the detail. By all means, point out the minutiae in passing, yes: but focus on it to the exclusion of the significance of the event being reported - NO!
100% Twinky. It is a shell game. Focus on the minutiae and miss the message. They can't see the forest for the trees. It's the same story with the manifestations...
And that splitting of hairs is a big thing with what TWI did to distort and twist scriptures. Focus on minutiae, and overlook the detail. By all means, point out the minutiae in passing, yes: but focus on it to the exclusion of the significance of the event being reported - NO!
Good point about splitting hairs. From my perch 20 years after leaving TWI and over 40 years after first getting involved, the purpose of Wierwille's novel interpretations was mainly to establish himself as the expert by undermining the reliability of virtually every other denomination, not about establishing "the truth". The middle portion of PFAL, while ostensibly about the keys to The Word interpreting itself, is example after example of "things everybody got wrong". After a few sessions he's not even backing crap up with actual verses, but shaky translations based on wishful thinking and "if you could only see it in the original" as well as suspect "Orientalisms".
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T-Bone
Hi Amazing T and welcome to Grease Spot. That's a great question! If you are a graduate of the Power For Abundant Living Class - (or PFAL ) then I will direct you back to that as being the source you requested. What you will find here on Grease Spot is some good collective analysis of PFAL as well as other classes, teachings and written material by wierwille on a number of threads.
I'm sure others will chime in to answer your question...but let me give you a link to a great thread that might be what you're looking for:
Actual Errors in PFAL
fyi - it's a long thread - some 38 pages - but it's jammed packed with info - might take you a while to go through it all
Edited by T-Bonetypos
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Rocky
It is also important to recognize that what's on the thread that T-Bone linked to is not necessarily a complete or exhaustive list.
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WordWolf
That thread is a good starting point. That thread is not all the verses wierwille used wrongly. My usual rule is that any doctrine vpw stated that had only one verse justifying it, or even less than one verse, was almost certainly error and needed to be studied carefully.
By the way, what's your main language? If one of us knows it, you might find it easier to communicate with us in that, at least sometimes. If it's Spanish (for example), we do have a few posters who know some Spanish.
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WordWolf
There's a number of other threads that have similar content. Here's a few.
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/19172-more-blatant-pfal-errors/
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24071-when-is-it-a-person-when-is-it-alive/
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Twinky
Unfortunately there are so many scriptures that are given a slant, or twisted, that it's almost impossible to say what isn't twisted. Because once indoctrinated through PFAL (or its equivalent in your language), that colours what you see, read, hear and understand later. Mostly, the Old Testament is okay to just read and accept at face value. And the book of Revelation, which wasn't well understood in TWI.
It is true to say that TWI isn't the only "religious" organisation that puts a twist or a slant on different Bible verses and passages, and uses the Bible to promote a point of view that isn't Godly (ie, passages are carefully chosen to support their own PoV). But TWI did this in a comprehensively deceptive and divisive manner. Perhaps not everything they taught or teach is wrong. But everything needs to be viewed with some suspicion and checked against more reliable resources - there are plenty of online Bible search tools and commentaries. It's time to exercise those dulled critical thinking skills!
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Bolshevik
Lessons on how to translate twisted language are available. For a small initial price.
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waysider
Anything that supposedly "proves" the law of believing.
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chockfull
Wierwille was the king of making mountains out of molehills. How many were crucified with Christ? 2 or 4? See mainstream Christianity can't even get it right with details of Christs death and resurrection. So trust us instead of them because we are more accurate.
If you read about the Pharisees in the Bible you get a good picture of how Way leadership operates. But they hide this with good words and fair speeches.
Don't buy their major premise. Insignificant details in scripture are just that. Insignificant details. Not a reason to follow a cult.
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Twinky
Apart from "It really doesn't matter," it could have been any number. Roman hierarchy once crucified about 6,000 people at once. Frequently there were mass crucifixions in the tens or even hundreds. The gruesome process wasn't a "one or two at a time" task. It must have taken a special kind of soldier mentality to do a lot of these executions.
Jesus could have been in the middle of a long row, one of several rows. There could have been people at the right, the left, before and behind him. We have no idea how close together the crosses were. Maybe a couple of feet, rather than a couple of metres (or yards). I would think, fairly close together, but only because such weakened men would have found it hard to conduct any kind of conversation after even just 10 minutes, and there does appear to have been some gasping chat between themselves.
Splitting hairs about it is actually a way of obscuring what Christ willingly did: surrendered his life for those he wanted to save. Surrendered his will to that of the God who he claimed sent him.
Whether you regard Jesus as a hero or a madman, nothing (and especially not VPW's hair-splitting) negates the willing self-sacrifice of this horrendous death.
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Twinky
And that splitting of hairs is a big thing with what TWI did to distort and twist scriptures. Focus on minutiae, and overlook the detail. By all means, point out the minutiae in passing, yes: but focus on it to the exclusion of the significance of the event being reported - NO!
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chockfull
100% Twinky. It is a shell game. Focus on the minutiae and miss the message. They can't see the forest for the trees. It's the same story with the manifestations...
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Oakspear
Good point about splitting hairs. From my perch 20 years after leaving TWI and over 40 years after first getting involved, the purpose of Wierwille's novel interpretations was mainly to establish himself as the expert by undermining the reliability of virtually every other denomination, not about establishing "the truth". The middle portion of PFAL, while ostensibly about the keys to The Word interpreting itself, is example after example of "things everybody got wrong". After a few sessions he's not even backing crap up with actual verses, but shaky translations based on wishful thinking and "if you could only see it in the original" as well as suspect "Orientalisms".
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