Whether it was classes, Sunday Night Teachings, or the main stage of the ROA, vpw always sought to be the biggest deal around. When people got to talking about how this one expert on hunting and stuff was excellent at hunting, vpw couldn't stand someone getting more credit than him, even if it was something about which he was incompetent. When he overheard that people were saying the guy could stalk and catch anything without it hearing him, vpw went on the microphone (at lunch) and asked, with a skeptical voice, if people really thought the guy could sneak up on him. When asked later, he clarified that he meant that God Almighty would tell him if someone was sneaking up on him. But vpw couldn't stand the guy getting a compliment, even if it was about what he was supposed to be teaching them.
Envy . . . Narcissistic Injury . . . Cain and Abel . . . he has to imagine a dream-world scenario in which he always wins . . . which I think there is a word for . . . pathetic
WOW always ended in The Rock of Ages. Obviously that's a marketing strategy . . . but did success really matter? It really served to feed the leader, did it not?
In retrospect, it didn't matter. What mattered to top tier of TWI was that they could control every aspect of your life and blame yourself for the lack of success that was preordained from the beginning. In my case, was it at all realistic to send four outsiders (3 of us city kids) to a small rural town and expect anything but lack of growth? As messed up as my WOW year was, I still drank the Kool-Aid and was involved in a Way Home the next year - even attempted to enter the Way Corps (was saved from that by being unable to scrape together sponsorship $)
In my case, was it at all realistic to send four outsiders (3 of us city kids) to a small rural town and expect anything but lack of growth? As messed up as my WOW year was, I still drank the Kool-Aid and was involved in a Way Home the next year - even attempted to enter the Way Corps (was saved from that by being unable to scrape together sponsorship $)
TWI is good at putting unqualified people out to the wolves and calling it letting you walk out on your believing, or growth or some such non-sense. My way disciple "training" was a joke. They sent me to Baton Rouge when I was from the east coast and have lived in NYC/LA - I could have easily gone into any big, gritty city and succeeded. But instead I went to Baton Rouge where we had lousy success except for the group that was LSU campus. This pattern continued throughout my life in TWI. Oh...your a chef? Then we need to assign you to the grounds department so you can grow....make that make sense.
Well you will be thrilled to know the Way Disciple program is no more.
Announcing registration for the Way Ambassador program. The best of both programs. New and dynamic. First wave in 2022. Oh. Yeah. The goal is Word Over the World because a new generation has to take the Word to their generation.
Well you will be thrilled to know the Way Disciple program is no more.
Announcing registration for the Way Ambassador program. The best of both programs. New and dynamic. First wave in 2022. Oh. Yeah. The goal is Word Over the World because a new generation has to take the Word to their generation.
Well you will be thrilled to know the Way Disciple program is no more.
Announcing registration for the Way Ambassador program. The best of both programs. New and dynamic. First wave in 2022. Oh. Yeah. The goal is Word Over the World because a new generation has to take the Word to their generation.
Ok - something like Gremlins 2: The New Batch but it’s Suckers for Cults 2: The New Batch…so much for the prevailing word
I watched their promo video (well: listened to it, while I did more worthwhile things). It runs from Aug 2022 to June 2023 and they are sending these "Ambassadors" to areas where there is already an established branch into which they can be "integrated." So there's a couple of changes.
Now: why to where there is an established branch? Is it because (1) after all these years, they realise that sending a bunch of strangers (to each other) to a strange new city (to all of them) isn't actually very helpful; or (2) they can be prodded and spied upon on a daily basis by local leadership.
I'd like to think that it meant that failure was less likely (from the participants' PoV) and that real guidance was on hand locally. In actuality, I suspect it will mean that participants will be "overseen" and brought under the thumbs of meanie leaders.
Good luck to 'em all. Unlikely anyone at the Cafe will be signing up.
Well you will be thrilled to know the Way Disciple program is no more.
Announcing registration for the Way Ambassador program. The best of both programs. New and dynamic. First wave in 2022. Oh. Yeah. The goal is Word Over the World because a new generation has to take the Word to their generation.
I watched their promo video (well: listened to it, while I did more worthwhile things). It runs from Aug 2022 to June 2023 and they are sending these "Ambassadors" to areas where there is already an established branch into which they can be "integrated." So there's a couple of changes.
Now: why to where there is an established branch? Is it because (1) after all these years, they realise that sending a bunch of strangers (to each other) to a strange new city (to all of them) isn't actually very helpful; or (2) they can be prodded and spied upon on a daily basis by local leadership.
I'd like to think that it meant that failure was less likely (from the participants' PoV) and that real guidance was on hand locally. In actuality, I suspect it will mean that participants will be "overseen" and brought under the thumbs of meanie leaders.
Good luck to 'em all. Unlikely anyone at the Cafe will be signing up.
Even without the (likely true) aspect of being "overseen", it makes more sense to have them somewhere where they can possibly have an impact. But TWI leaders will never admit that the old way was wrong when they change to something new.
What is an “established branch” nowadays? A city with one home fellowship with people out of debt and 2 “Bible Studies” with people in debt leading them?
Or now that it's Way 4 are we delivered from that particular category of bondage? And they are so much more enlightened now? And we're not going to talk about that anymore? But you have to be out of debt to go?
It hit me like a ton of bricks not long ago. I think I was in a form of denial for decades. I was a WOW in California in '76. My Grandmother in CT passed away that year and I didn't go to her funeral because I was 'committed' to not leave the area.
How could I have possibly done that ? Just thinking of it fills me with shame and remorse.
It hit me like a ton of bricks not long ago. I think I was in a form of denial for decades. I was a WOW in California in '76. My Grandmother in CT passed away that year and I didn't go to her funeral because I was 'committed' to not leave the area.
How could I have possibly done that ? Just thinking of it fills me with shame and remorse.
It hit me like a ton of bricks not long ago. I think I was in a form of denial for decades. I was a WOW in California in '76. My Grandmother in CT passed away that year and I didn't go to her funeral because I was 'committed' to not leave the area.
How could I have possibly done that ? Just thinking of it fills me with shame and remorse.
Hiway29, I have a similar problem - but when it comes to all the dumb decisions I made while in TWI besides the ball-and-chain mindset i had back then - I try to remind myself I was in a faulty frame of mind back then. not making excuses- just giving reasons for what I did or didn’t do.
Years ago i went to a professional counselor - and my first session was mostly me crying like a baby relating all the screwy decisions and weird experiences while I was in TWI…his words of wisdom were simple - quit beating yourself up over the past. Sometimes I’m my own worst enemy.
* * * * * * * *
Revision with some afterthoughts:
I also wanted to add something – just so I don’t leave anyone in the dark about what my “screwy decisions” were – most of the time it was the bizarre notion that I should have "doing the work of the ministry" as my top priority – even above self, wife and kids. After my WOW year, I had thought about going back to college maybe get a degree in electrical engineering – my wife thought it was a good idea too – but no – I got sidetracked - I kept thinking I should really devote a lot of my time and energy to "getting The Word moving in our city".
Other regrets I covered with the counselor: spending most of my time and energy running Twigs, witnessing, under-shepherding, running PFAL classes, taking other ministry cases; I had very little quality time and energy left for my wife and kids. Another regret – distancing myself from any family or old friends who weren’t interested in hearing me share “the greatness of God’s word”. Another regret – dropping newcomers like they were a hot potato if they never expressed any real interest in taking the PFAL class. Another regret – thinking I was so much better than "any unbeliever who never took the PFAL class".
Going forward – I am thankful I left TWI and reprioritized what is most important to me now. My new priorities are simple. I try to be a good husband and a good Dad…I try to be kind and helpful to all who cross my path…I try to appreciate people for their diversity and unique perspective regardless of their belief system…funny isn’t it – I used to belong to a supposedly Christian ministry – but all my new priorities were grievously underrated in The Way International...as what's-his-face-poser "admitted" in the PFAL class "there's something wrong with our scale of values" - boy ain't that the truth!
Edited by T-Bone wanted to add some afterthoughts...the only time editing is a top priority is when I post
Lots of us were like that, T-Bone. Nothing like a high-demand cult to make you drop all your "normal" commitments - like to wife and family, other relatives, and to your community at large.
I didn't go to her funeral because I was 'committed' to not leave the area
Was that your choice, or was it the choice of your coordinator?
I know when I was in rez, a couple of people were allowed to go to family funerals - if they took another way believer with them (gotta withstand those DS, and move two by two), and didn't stay overnight unless absolutely unavoidable. Last chance to show respects, etc (even if "under guard" from the other believer).
On the other hand, others weren't allowed to go to weddings, not even close family members. Because there would be the opportunity to see them later, after WC training was finished. (As if they'd be missing anything worthwhile from WC training (snark)!).
It hit me like a ton of bricks not long ago. I think I was in a form of denial for decades. I was a WOW in California in '76. My Grandmother in CT passed away that year and I didn't go to her funeral because I was 'committed' to not leave the area.
How could I have possibly done that ? Just thinking of it fills me with shame and remorse.
I'm so sorry.
It's a feeling many of us have had to face. That doesn't make it any less painful, I know. But, maybe it helps a little bit to know that others have walked in your shoes and are willing to help, even if it's just to listen.
Time doesn't heal all wounds. It can make them less noticeable, though.
Lots of us were like that, T-Bone. Nothing like a high-demand cult to make you drop all your "normal" commitments - like to wife and family, other relatives, and to your community at large.
4 hours ago, Twinky said:
Was that your choice, or was it the choice of your coordinator?
Twinky, just to clarify my point – I was the one who made those bad choices; technically no one forced me to make those bad decisions to choose TWI’s agenda over any personal preferences or priorities.
However, I think it might be arguable – maybe even in a court of law – that often it was decision-making under duress, taking into account the dynamics of groupthink, peer pressure, and a harmful and controlling cult’s other manipulative and coercive tactics…but for me that still doesn’t relieve the regret or some sense of responsibility…I’ve realized that beating myself up over bad decisions in the past is a futile attempt to change the way I thought in the past…At least now when I struggle over some bad decisions I made while in TWI, it’s more of a fight between my actual self (free of the ball-and-chain-mindset) versus my former adaptive self (what I did to endure life in a harmful and controlling cult while being shackled to a ball-and-chain mindset) – now my actual self usually wins the fight …and honestly it doesn’t get rid of the regret – but the upside of surviving a harmful and controlling cult is that some old wounds develop into scar tissue that’s super-tough…impervious to the scams of a cult.
Edited by T-Bone the toughest part of editing is making good choices in how we say things
Absolutely your decision, T-Bone. And absolutely made under duress. If you chose to do something different, likely you'd have been castigated nastily, your supposed sins used as an example, and woe betide you if anything went awry - you'd've been accused of dabbling with DSs, and lucky not to be M&A'd.
I don't know if you will be familiar with the expression "coercive control." Used in the UK to define the mental abuse that one partner in a relationship exerts over another. Often, the pattern of behaviour (physical or mind-games, or other) that a male partner will use to belittle and disenfranchise his female partner. You might find this interesting: Coercive control - Womens Aid. Do any of the examples at the beginning of the article sound familiar?
I regret many, not all, of my actions on my WoW year. I would really like to apologise for my actions to some of my WoW family. Those actions weren't the real "me" - they were a conditioned and bullied "me." I doubt my WoW family would really understand, but you would, T-Bone, and others who had been in rez. Thank God I am no longer that person - that pretend person.
In answer to the question of whether it was my choice to not leave the WOW field for my Grandmother's funeral. In retrospect, they would have probably (maybe ?, I dunno) allowed me to go ...but the commitment had been so drummed into my head, on a daily basis, that I did not press the matter.I'm sure it would not have been simple or with any kind of caring. I certainly told the corps dude I was living with about it, and wrestled with it. That's why I feel shame and remorse..... I should have just gone, and it is a reflection of not only the power the way had over me, but clearly a dysfunctional mind that was confused and needed healing....which is why I got involved in the thing in the first place. Whatever dysfunctional tendencies I may be forever stuck with now....I can hardly imagine how far gone I was to allow that situation to play out like it did.
The ways ambassador program I went through worked out ok. 4 people from different parts thrown together in a different culture. For a youngster it was a support system of an abusive sort but it was there. We went out and had fun and met people. The ways leadership would always be introducing some kind of guilt trip. Like what does witnessing actually mean? No it's not going to happy hours and meeting people it's door to door. Or some bondage .... that we quickly ignored. Or some hard core corps nazi would be trying to sign up homeless people for a class while they were out visiting for a short period of time.
The biggest problem I saw for me with the program is that it started a pattern of nomad living. Making dumb choices. Moving all over for no reason at the behest of abusive people. Instead of building a quality life where I had an existing support system.
The ways leadership would always be introducing some kind of guilt trip. Like what does witnessing actually mean? No it's not going to happy hours and meeting people it's door to door.
And they were oblivious to the fact that meeting people in social situations was probably more successful in recruitment than door-to-door, where most people are defensive to start with
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Twinky
I can only say that I led a WOW team, we set goals at the beginning (I had to scale back on what some of my team wanted, they were so enthusiastic) we worked really hard and in fact I drove the team h
Oakspear
Did anybody do what was was expected of them on the WOW field? If I remember correctly there was a requirement that you witness 48 hours a week (average 8 hours/day since we were supposed to take one
Rocky
Amen to that!
Bolshevik
Envy . . . Narcissistic Injury . . . Cain and Abel . . . he has to imagine a dream-world scenario in which he always wins . . . which I think there is a word for . . . pathetic
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WordWolf
The guys name was T0m Br0wn. There´s been some posts about him, so I´ve previously found them and linked them, in the thread with his name on it.
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/15967-tom-brown/?tab=comments#comment-383937
About half the thread is reposts of vpw and Tom incidents.
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Bolshevik
Thanks WW, this is fascinating.
It has personality disorder written all over it.
Countless folks did not know what they were aspiring to be.
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Oakspear
In retrospect, it didn't matter. What mattered to top tier of TWI was that they could control every aspect of your life and blame yourself for the lack of success that was preordained from the beginning. In my case, was it at all realistic to send four outsiders (3 of us city kids) to a small rural town and expect anything but lack of growth? As messed up as my WOW year was, I still drank the Kool-Aid and was involved in a Way Home the next year - even attempted to enter the Way Corps (was saved from that by being unable to scrape together sponsorship $)
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OldSkool
TWI is good at putting unqualified people out to the wolves and calling it letting you walk out on your believing, or growth or some such non-sense. My way disciple "training" was a joke. They sent me to Baton Rouge when I was from the east coast and have lived in NYC/LA - I could have easily gone into any big, gritty city and succeeded. But instead I went to Baton Rouge where we had lousy success except for the group that was LSU campus. This pattern continued throughout my life in TWI. Oh...your a chef? Then we need to assign you to the grounds department so you can grow....make that make sense.
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Bolshevik
"Make your weakness a strength"
Or some BS
I called it
"waste time until your strengths become weak"
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penguin2
Well you will be thrilled to know the Way Disciple program is no more.
Announcing registration for the Way Ambassador program. The best of both programs. New and dynamic. First wave in 2022. Oh. Yeah. The goal is Word Over the World because a new generation has to take the Word to their generation.
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Rocky
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T-Bone
Ok - something like Gremlins 2: The New Batch but it’s Suckers for Cults 2: The New Batch…so much for the prevailing word
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Twinky
I watched their promo video (well: listened to it, while I did more worthwhile things). It runs from Aug 2022 to June 2023 and they are sending these "Ambassadors" to areas where there is already an established branch into which they can be "integrated." So there's a couple of changes.
Now: why to where there is an established branch? Is it because (1) after all these years, they realise that sending a bunch of strangers (to each other) to a strange new city (to all of them) isn't actually very helpful; or (2) they can be prodded and spied upon on a daily basis by local leadership.
I'd like to think that it meant that failure was less likely (from the participants' PoV) and that real guidance was on hand locally. In actuality, I suspect it will mean that participants will be "overseen" and brought under the thumbs of meanie leaders.
Good luck to 'em all. Unlikely anyone at the Cafe will be signing up.
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Oakspear
What? I thought the "word" was over the world?
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Oakspear
Even without the (likely true) aspect of being "overseen", it makes more sense to have them somewhere where they can possibly have an impact. But TWI leaders will never admit that the old way was wrong when they change to something new.
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chockfull
What is an “established branch” nowadays? A city with one home fellowship with people out of debt and 2 “Bible Studies” with people in debt leading them?
Or now that it's Way 4 are we delivered from that particular category of bondage? And they are so much more enlightened now? And we're not going to talk about that anymore? But you have to be out of debt to go?
I see the new skins. I see the old wine....
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hiway29
It hit me like a ton of bricks not long ago. I think I was in a form of denial for decades. I was a WOW in California in '76. My Grandmother in CT passed away that year and I didn't go to her funeral because I was 'committed' to not leave the area.
How could I have possibly done that ? Just thinking of it fills me with shame and remorse.
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Rocky
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T-Bone
Hiway29, I have a similar problem - but when it comes to all the dumb decisions I made while in TWI besides the ball-and-chain mindset i had back then - I try to remind myself I was in a faulty frame of mind back then. not making excuses- just giving reasons for what I did or didn’t do.
Years ago i went to a professional counselor - and my first session was mostly me crying like a baby relating all the screwy decisions and weird experiences while I was in TWI…his words of wisdom were simple - quit beating yourself up over the past. Sometimes I’m my own worst enemy.
* * * * * * * *
Revision with some afterthoughts:
I also wanted to add something – just so I don’t leave anyone in the dark about what my “screwy decisions” were – most of the time it was the bizarre notion that I should have "doing the work of the ministry" as my top priority – even above self, wife and kids. After my WOW year, I had thought about going back to college maybe get a degree in electrical engineering – my wife thought it was a good idea too – but no – I got sidetracked - I kept thinking I should really devote a lot of my time and energy to "getting The Word moving in our city".
Other regrets I covered with the counselor: spending most of my time and energy running Twigs, witnessing, under-shepherding, running PFAL classes, taking other ministry cases; I had very little quality time and energy left for my wife and kids. Another regret – distancing myself from any family or old friends who weren’t interested in hearing me share “the greatness of God’s word”. Another regret – dropping newcomers like they were a hot potato if they never expressed any real interest in taking the PFAL class. Another regret – thinking I was so much better than "any unbeliever who never took the PFAL class".
Edited by T-BoneGoing forward – I am thankful I left TWI and reprioritized what is most important to me now. My new priorities are simple. I try to be a good husband and a good Dad…I try to be kind and helpful to all who cross my path…I try to appreciate people for their diversity and unique perspective regardless of their belief system…funny isn’t it – I used to belong to a supposedly Christian ministry – but all my new priorities were grievously underrated in The Way International...as what's-his-face-poser "admitted" in the PFAL class "there's something wrong with our scale of values" - boy ain't that the truth!
wanted to add some afterthoughts...the only time editing is a top priority is when I post
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Twinky
Lots of us were like that, T-Bone. Nothing like a high-demand cult to make you drop all your "normal" commitments - like to wife and family, other relatives, and to your community at large.
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Twinky
Was that your choice, or was it the choice of your coordinator?
I know when I was in rez, a couple of people were allowed to go to family funerals - if they took another way believer with them (gotta withstand those DS, and move two by two), and didn't stay overnight unless absolutely unavoidable. Last chance to show respects, etc (even if "under guard" from the other believer).
On the other hand, others weren't allowed to go to weddings, not even close family members. Because there would be the opportunity to see them later, after WC training was finished. (As if they'd be missing anything worthwhile from WC training (snark)!).
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waysider
I'm so sorry.
It's a feeling many of us have had to face. That doesn't make it any less painful, I know. But, maybe it helps a little bit to know that others have walked in your shoes and are willing to help, even if it's just to listen.
Time doesn't heal all wounds. It can make them less noticeable, though.
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T-Bone
Twinky, just to clarify my point – I was the one who made those bad choices; technically no one forced me to make those bad decisions to choose TWI’s agenda over any personal preferences or priorities.
However, I think it might be arguable – maybe even in a court of law – that often it was decision-making under duress, taking into account the dynamics of groupthink, peer pressure, and a harmful and controlling cult’s other manipulative and coercive tactics…but for me that still doesn’t relieve the regret or some sense of responsibility…I’ve realized that beating myself up over bad decisions in the past is a futile attempt to change the way I thought in the past…At least now when I struggle over some bad decisions I made while in TWI, it’s more of a fight between my actual self (free of the ball-and-chain-mindset) versus my former adaptive self (what I did to endure life in a harmful and controlling cult while being shackled to a ball-and-chain mindset) – now my actual self usually wins the fight
…and honestly it doesn’t get rid of the regret – but the upside of surviving a harmful and controlling cult is that some old wounds develop into scar tissue that’s super-tough…impervious to the scams of a cult.
Edited by T-Bonethe toughest part of editing is making good choices in how we say things
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Twinky
Absolutely your decision, T-Bone. And absolutely made under duress. If you chose to do something different, likely you'd have been castigated nastily, your supposed sins used as an example, and woe betide you if anything went awry - you'd've been accused of dabbling with DSs, and lucky not to be M&A'd.
I don't know if you will be familiar with the expression "coercive control." Used in the UK to define the mental abuse that one partner in a relationship exerts over another. Often, the pattern of behaviour (physical or mind-games, or other) that a male partner will use to belittle and disenfranchise his female partner. You might find this interesting: Coercive control - Womens Aid. Do any of the examples at the beginning of the article sound familiar?
I regret many, not all, of my actions on my WoW year. I would really like to apologise for my actions to some of my WoW family. Those actions weren't the real "me" - they were a conditioned and bullied "me." I doubt my WoW family would really understand, but you would, T-Bone, and others who had been in rez. Thank God I am no longer that person - that pretend person.
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hiway29
In answer to the question of whether it was my choice to not leave the WOW field for my Grandmother's funeral. In retrospect, they would have probably (maybe ?, I dunno) allowed me to go ...but the commitment had been so drummed into my head, on a daily basis, that I did not press the matter.I'm sure it would not have been simple or with any kind of caring. I certainly told the corps dude I was living with about it, and wrestled with it. That's why I feel shame and remorse..... I should have just gone, and it is a reflection of not only the power the way had over me, but clearly a dysfunctional mind that was confused and needed healing....which is why I got involved in the thing in the first place. Whatever dysfunctional tendencies I may be forever stuck with now....I can hardly imagine how far gone I was to allow that situation to play out like it did.
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chockfull
The ways ambassador program I went through worked out ok. 4 people from different parts thrown together in a different culture. For a youngster it was a support system of an abusive sort but it was there. We went out and had fun and met people. The ways leadership would always be introducing some kind of guilt trip. Like what does witnessing actually mean? No it's not going to happy hours and meeting people it's door to door. Or some bondage .... that we quickly ignored. Or some hard core corps nazi would be trying to sign up homeless people for a class while they were out visiting for a short period of time.
The biggest problem I saw for me with the program is that it started a pattern of nomad living. Making dumb choices. Moving all over for no reason at the behest of abusive people. Instead of building a quality life where I had an existing support system.
One more old wine skin. Sorry.
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Oakspear
And they were oblivious to the fact that meeting people in social situations was probably more successful in recruitment than door-to-door, where most people are defensive to start with
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