I think it is well known starvation is not necessary in this world and typically caused by bad governments.
Or drought, heavy rain/floods at the wrong time of year, fire, pestilence (locust or insect attack), blight, and many other things. War, too. And climate change.
Government policies can certainly exacerbate a bad situation and make a famine out of a bad situation.
It is also well known that greed is not necessary in this world, either.
Greed. Hoarding food to oneself, to one's nation or cultural group, whatever.
Perhaps some fatties could be considered as "food hoarders" in the same way that people hoard all sorts of stuff, useful and not, in their homes. Physical hoarding is considered a sort of mental illness. Maybe we should think of food hoarders in the same way.
To me it is amazing all the studies that have been done finding out what parts of the brain supposedly cause us to overeat, or abuse drugs or alcohol. We can pinpoint everything, but it has not curbed the abuse! Alcoholism has been around forever but we cannot arrest it.
One would expect an improvement when studies seem to identify why booze is abused, for example. But, things are only getting worse. We allocate money to fix the problem, but thing get worse. Does that make sense? Apparently it does to those who make such decisions. If you were having trouble in your home with rat infestation, say, and you hired an expert to fix the problem, you would expect results. If the rats continued you would fire the expert, and look at different solutions. Makes sense, doesn’t it? https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/alcohol-related-deaths-increasing-united-states
To me it is amazing all the studies that have been done finding out what parts of the brain supposedly cause us to overeat, or abuse drugs or alcohol. We can pinpoint everything, but it has not curbed the abuse! Alcoholism has been around forever but we cannot arrest it.
One would expect an improvement when studies seem to identify why booze is abused, for example. But, things are only getting worse. We allocate money to fix the problem, but thing get worse. Does that make sense? Apparently it does to those who make such decisions. If you were having trouble in your home with rat infestation, say, and you hired an expert to fix the problem, you would expect results. If the rats continued you would fire the expert, and look at different solutions. Makes sense, doesn’t it? https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/alcohol-related-deaths-increasing-united-states
Who is we? To what is money allocated? How do "we" (those who make such decisions) know that funding is being directed to actually address the root causes of the problem(s)?
I work with street-homeless people (well, I did until the pandemic; about to resume work). I've never seen a fat homeless person. There is plenty of free food available, especially in this city: often carb-loaded, like sandwiches; their fresh veg content is probably lacking; and many drink quite a lot of alcohol. Some, but by no means all, do drugs; many smoke, rolies usually. They have a lot of illnesses and their life expectancy is significantly shorter than people who are not homeless. But they are not fat, never mind obese.
Interesting, perhaps to ponder the differences.
Becoming homeless, however, is perhaps not the best way to lose weight. I'm not recommending it.
I believe it would be a beneficial study to look at the homeless and discover why they are not fat. To date, the current and past studies done, have not decreased the occurances of overeating in society. But my skepticism says it is just to obvious, and the powers that be will ignore it.
Most of the production and distribution of these items are out of our hands, individually speaking.
I think it is well known starvation is not necessary in this world and typically caused by bad governments. We usually don't point at individuals for starving and say "try harder".
Since 1964 the U.S. has spent over $22 trillion to fight poverty with minimal results. Over 50 years of taking tax payers hard earned money, has been unable to get rid of poverty. Yet we keep throwing more money at it. I believe the definition of insanity applies in spades to this crazy situation.
The reason I bring this up, is the belief that world hunger, and a host of other problems, can be solved if the proper governments were in place. I cannot think,of a better government than the United States Federal Government to administer the war on poverty. But obviously, it has failed drastically. https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/the-war-poverty-after-50-years
I believe this study shows the world would be throwing good money after bad attemping to fix world hunger. It makes us feel good throwing our hard earned money at the problem, but it will not be fixed.
If the world is going to collapse because everyone is fat that sounds like a job for government policies.
I believe it would be a beneficial study to look at the homeless and discover why they are not fat. To date, the current and past studies done, have not decreased the occurances of overeating in society. But my skepticism says it is just to obvious, and the powers that be will ignore it.
StayedTooLong, I was referring to hunger, not poverty. Though they can be related. I meant the government policies running how the food industry operates.
Remember Upton Sinclair's The Jungle? This is nothing new.
Edited by Bolshevik misspelling do to not eating this morning
. . . .obesity is a sign or symptom that the systems around us are broken. Obesity is not an individual problem.It is a systems problem. Think about all of the complex systems around you and in you that affect your weight.
. . .If it weren’t so complex then all of us would be able to control ourselves and our habits all of the time. (If you are already able to do this, congratulations and stop lying about it.) . . .
This is pretty much the response to all of the ills in society; the individual is never responsible, but collectively everyone else is responsible. What a cop out.
This is pretty much the response to all of the ills in society; the individual is never responsible, but collectively everyone else is responsible. What a cop out.
How many individuals are there in the United States?
How are individuals responsible for public health crises that they have no individual power to mitigate?
Cop out?
Did you cop out and not answer the salient questions I posted for you earlier in this thread that, if you had addressed them, might have given you some insight on what is or is not a societal cop out?
Who is we? To what is money allocated? How do "we" (those who make such decisions) know that funding is being directed to actually address the root causes of the problem(s)?
How many individuals are there in the United States?
How are individuals responsible for public health crises that they have no individual power to mitigate?
Cop out?
Did you cop out and not answer the salient questions I posted for you earlier in this thread that, if you had addressed them, might have given you some insight on what is or is not a societal cop out?
I just read a sentence in a book by Jon Ronson (among his writings is a book titled The Psychopath Test):
"The snowflake never needs to feel responsible for the avalanche."
Rocky, there are somethings so obvious, they do not have to be explained to anyone who does not have an axe to grind with the subject at hand. Your post here is a perfect example of ignoring the obvious and going down some rabbit hole, just to argue your point.
Who is we?
WE would be anyone who maybe familar with the study, someone who may have observed the study matter, the country at large.
To what is money allocated?
The promlem at hand we are concerned with.
How do "we" (those who make such decisions) know that funding is being directed to actually address the root causes of the problem(s)?
Have you verified that the funding has been directed to actually address the root causes of all the studies you have referenced in this thread?
How many individuals are there in the United States?
How are individuals responsible for public health crises that they have no individual power to mitigate?
Cop out?
Did you cop out and not answer the salient questions I posted for you earlier in this thread that, if you had addressed them, might have given you some insight on what is or is not a societal cop out?
"The snowflake never needs to feel responsible for the avalanche."
This link at least suggests homeless don't get fat . . . In Britain.
Interesting articles you post, Bolshy one. So US homeless people are fat/obese, and Brit ones aren't (in general). (I'm sure there are lots of each, in both countries.) In my city, there are lots of places homeless people can get free or very cheap food, including proper hot meals. Some are places run by shelter/refuges, some by churches, there's the "soup run" (soup and sandwiches), there's giveaways by some retailers of use-before sandwiches and fruit, some food is distributed by goody-goodies (for a while). Some is purchased specifically, by random passers-by with kind hearts. Lots of carb-heavy stuff.
In my 10+ years working with street homeless, in a city where free food is abundant, I can honesty say there are no obese people among them here; and there are few merely fat people. Can't speak for the rest of the UK, but I suspect it's similar.
I found this article, which you might find of interest: HOMELESSNESS IS A HEALTH ISSUE, which looks at the national picture. An extract: "Our audit data highlighted the poor diets many homeless people have. Almost a third of clients regularly eat less than two meals a day. In addition, only 1 in 4 homeless people said they usually eat 3 or more pieces of fruit or veg per day. Only 7% usually consume the recommended 5 per day, compared to 27% of the general population6 – a third do not eat any at all."
Homelessness is another broad topic with many views to be had.
If we're saying not eating is a great diet (cause Homeless who don't eat get thinner) there's various types of fasting one could try.
You mention having a certain number of meals per day . . . Which again hints at fasting as a solution . .when we eat . . How much to eat . . What to eat . . What not to eat.
It's a lot of worries . . . Especially for those who can only think about getting through today.
Interesting articles you post, Bolshy one. So US homeless people are fat/obese, and Brit ones aren't (in general). (I'm sure there are lots of each, in both countries.) In my city, there are lots of places homeless people can get free or very cheap food, including proper hot meals. Some are places run by shelter/refuges, some by churches, there's the "soup run" (soup and sandwiches), there's giveaways by some retailers of use-before sandwiches and fruit, some food is distributed by goody-goodies (for a while). Some is purchased specifically, by random passers-by with kind hearts. Lots of carb-heavy stuff.
In my 10+ years working with street homeless, in a city where free food is abundant, I can honesty say there are no obese people among them here; and there are few merely fat people. Can't speak for the rest of the UK, but I suspect it's similar.
I found this article, which you might find of interest: HOMELESSNESS IS A HEALTH ISSUE, which looks at the national picture. An extract: "Our audit data highlighted the poor diets many homeless people have. Almost a third of clients regularly eat less than two meals a day. In addition, only 1 in 4 homeless people said they usually eat 3 or more pieces of fruit or veg per day. Only 7% usually consume the recommended 5 per day, compared to 27% of the general population6 – a third do not eat any at all."
That last part is how there are fat people with malnutrition- they are eating plenty of CALORIES per day, but are not eating enough NUTRITIOUS FOOD per day. Not enough veggies, not enough fruit, and you can have all sorts of health problems. Granted, tiny amounts of fruit or vegetable in a day can prevent something like rickets, but that amount is far short of what we need in a day to avoid malnutrition.
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Bolshevik
Your links are clear obesity/overweight is a growing trend and is a problem for everyone. There's no studies on the cause. You've cited a correlation on a small sample size and compared it
T-Bone
The older I get the more frequently I return to this topic. In my 40s and 50s I had no problem controlling my weight through a variety of means: Atkins diet, sheer-willpower-starving-myself-down-to-a-
Bolshevik
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/12/13/whats-on-your-table-how-americas-diet-has-changed-over-the-decades/ https://www.precisionnutrition.com/eating-too-much-blame-your-brain https
Bolshevik
Didn't mean to go politics. Sorry.
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Twinky
Or drought, heavy rain/floods at the wrong time of year, fire, pestilence (locust or insect attack), blight, and many other things. War, too. And climate change.
Government policies can certainly exacerbate a bad situation and make a famine out of a bad situation.
It is also well known that greed is not necessary in this world, either.
Greed. Hoarding food to oneself, to one's nation or cultural group, whatever.
Perhaps some fatties could be considered as "food hoarders" in the same way that people hoard all sorts of stuff, useful and not, in their homes. Physical hoarding is considered a sort of mental illness. Maybe we should think of food hoarders in the same way.
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Bolshevik
https://www.routledge.com/World-Hunger/Collins/p/book/9781853834936?gclid=CjwKCAjwoZWHBhBgEiwAiMN66ftDfvzAnmtDEnVc3hVZKt2xDFxTsJyCzEy6BBnEpAUUKxkvFTruExoCGmMQAvD_BwE
Written in 98 but that's where I got the idea
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Stayed Too Long
To me it is amazing all the studies that have been done finding out what parts of the brain supposedly cause us to overeat, or abuse drugs or alcohol. We can pinpoint everything, but it has not curbed the abuse! Alcoholism has been around forever but we cannot arrest it.
One would expect an improvement when studies seem to identify why booze is abused, for example. But, things are only getting worse. We allocate money to fix the problem, but thing get worse. Does that make sense? Apparently it does to those who make such decisions. If you were having trouble in your home with rat infestation, say, and you hired an expert to fix the problem, you would expect results. If the rats continued you would fire the expert, and look at different solutions. Makes sense, doesn’t it?
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/alcohol-related-deaths-increasing-united-states
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Rocky
Who is we? To what is money allocated? How do "we" (those who make such decisions) know that funding is being directed to actually address the root causes of the problem(s)?
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Stayed Too Long
I believe it would be a beneficial study to look at the homeless and discover why they are not fat. To date, the current and past studies done, have not decreased the occurances of overeating in society. But my skepticism says it is just to obvious, and the powers that be will ignore it.
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Stayed Too Long
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Rocky
Too obvious to YOU perhaps.
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Bolshevik
Maybe the homeless didn't read this thread. Some of them don't know they aren't supposed to be fat. Unless . . . google is lying to me.
https://www.wired.com/2012/06/homeless-obesity/
https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=158381
http://homelessadvice.com/why-are-homeless-people-fat-html/
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Bolshevik
http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2010/12/06/fashion-industry-goes-crazy-for-new-diet-book-homeless-people-dont-get-fat’/
This link at least suggests homeless don't get fat . . . In Britain.
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Bolshevik
StayedTooLong, I was referring to hunger, not poverty. Though they can be related. I meant the government policies running how the food industry operates.
Remember Upton Sinclair's The Jungle? This is nothing new.
Edited by Bolshevikmisspelling do to not eating this morning
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Bolshevik
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2016/10/12/the-one-thing-to-do-to-stop-the-obesity-epidemic/?sh=62c466666046
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Stayed Too Long
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Bolshevik
False dichotomy.
We are interdependent.
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Rocky
How many individuals are there in the United States?
How are individuals responsible for public health crises that they have no individual power to mitigate?
Cop out?
Did you cop out and not answer the salient questions I posted for you earlier in this thread that, if you had addressed them, might have given you some insight on what is or is not a societal cop out?
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Rocky
Such as these questions...
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Rocky
I just read a sentence in a book by Jon Ronson (among his writings is a book titled The Psychopath Test):
"The snowflake never needs to feel responsible for the avalanche."
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Stayed Too Long
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Rocky
What that sounds like to me is that you don't necessarily have any specific insight but you seem to expect me to read your mind.
As you wish, but I pose questions seeking clarification, no other reason.
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Rocky
Btw, since you seem to believe I have an ax to grind, what might that be, exactly?
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Rocky
"The snowflake never needs to feel responsible for the avalanche."
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Twinky
Interesting articles you post, Bolshy one. So US homeless people are fat/obese, and Brit ones aren't (in general). (I'm sure there are lots of each, in both countries.) In my city, there are lots of places homeless people can get free or very cheap food, including proper hot meals. Some are places run by shelter/refuges, some by churches, there's the "soup run" (soup and sandwiches), there's giveaways by some retailers of use-before sandwiches and fruit, some food is distributed by goody-goodies (for a while). Some is purchased specifically, by random passers-by with kind hearts. Lots of carb-heavy stuff.
In my 10+ years working with street homeless, in a city where free food is abundant, I can honesty say there are no obese people among them here; and there are few merely fat people. Can't speak for the rest of the UK, but I suspect it's similar.
I found this article, which you might find of interest: HOMELESSNESS IS A HEALTH ISSUE, which looks at the national picture. An extract: "Our audit data highlighted the poor diets many homeless people have. Almost a third of clients regularly eat less than two meals a day. In addition, only 1 in 4 homeless people said they usually eat 3 or more pieces of fruit or veg per day. Only 7% usually consume the recommended 5 per day, compared to 27% of the general population6 – a third do not eat any at all."
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Bolshevik
I commend the work you do, Twinky!
Homelessness is another broad topic with many views to be had.
If we're saying not eating is a great diet (cause Homeless who don't eat get thinner) there's various types of fasting one could try.
You mention having a certain number of meals per day . . . Which again hints at fasting as a solution . .when we eat . . How much to eat . . What to eat . . What not to eat.
It's a lot of worries . . . Especially for those who can only think about getting through today.
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WordWolf
That last part is how there are fat people with malnutrition- they are eating plenty of CALORIES per day, but are not eating enough NUTRITIOUS FOOD per day. Not enough veggies, not enough fruit, and you can have all sorts of health problems. Granted, tiny amounts of fruit or vegetable in a day can prevent something like rickets, but that amount is far short of what we need in a day to avoid malnutrition.
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