At Corps Week, it began raining nearly every day (1983). On about the third night, Martindale or Dean Don came to microphone and blasted the corps for their unbelieving-believing for NOT STOPPING THE RAIN. Huh??? I sat there pondering that confrontation.....why does it take *collective believing* from the corps household to stop the rain? I didn't undertand. Weren't there countless records in the Scripture of one person's walk of faith to change events....even if surrounded by unbelief? If these spiritual big-wigs were so high and mighty, why couldn't THEY stop the rain?
This expectation to stop rain by believing crap continued for quite a while. I was at the last-ever ROA (1995?) with my whole family (me, wife and six kids). We had bought a big tent for the adults and the youngest four kids and a small dome tent for the teenagers. A couple of nights in there was a thunderstorm that lasted for hours. Torrents of rain that never seemed to stop. Of course it was no surprise that the low-lying tent city was going to be soon under water. I don't care how good your tent is, you're going to get flooded out. We ended up decamping to the Corps tents for the night. We were then "allowed" to use dryers in the on-site residences to dry out our sleeping bags. The part we were in wasn't even the worst. After I got my wife and kids safely in the Corps tents I, along with a group of guys waded into other parts of tent city to rescue help people whose tents were awash in calf-deep water.
And if that wasn't the worst of it, not only were we expected to be fresh and ready for the morning teaching and children's fellowship, but Martindale ripped into us all for not being prepared.
I, along with a group of guys waded into other parts of tent city to rescue help people whose tents were awash in calf-deep water.
I have to ask, but I think I know the answer: did you see Martindale among that "group of guys"?
Oh, and a second question: did he open that very spacious log cabin that he lived in, so that some of those flooded out could be dry overnight? Even if only for just the mums with kids under 10? (Think I may know the answer to that, too.)
This expectation to stop rain by believing crap continued for quite a while. I was at the last-ever ROA (1995?) with my whole family (me, wife and six kids). We had bought a big tent for the adults and the youngest four kids and a small dome tent for the teenagers. A couple of nights in there was a thunderstorm that lasted for hours. Torrents of rain that never seemed to stop. Of course it was no surprise that the low-lying tent city was going to be soon under water. I don't care how good your tent is, you're going to get flooded out. We ended up decamping to the Corps tents for the night. We were then "allowed" to use dryers in the on-site residences to dry out our sleeping bags. The part we were in wasn't even the worst. After I got my wife and kids safely in the Corps tents I, along with a group of guys waded into other parts of tent city to rescue help people whose tents were awash in calf-deep water.
And if that wasn't the worst of it, not only were we expected to be fresh and ready for the morning teaching and children's fellowship, but Martindale ripped into us all for not being prepared.
If the trustees couldn't stop the rain (by their believing) where the boiling heat and humidity collide into somewhat-expected torrential thunderstorms EACH YEAR...... how's about just using common sense? Wouldn't it have been smart and feasible to install drainage pipeline in the camping area? I know that Way Builders installed miles of electrical wiring for hookups and such.
For seventeen (17) years (1978-1995), twi made a boatload of money by using free labor from corps to put on the rock of ages. How about installing drainage pipeline so that campers experience far less discomfort after those Ohio thunderstorms? The male/female corps tents were set up to give the worker bees six hours of sleep before their next shift. Looking back at all this....... the coerced/exploited labor was off the charts. Work. Work. Work. Where was the thanks? Where was the love?
Oftentimes, the people (corps) who gave the most..... were the MOST EXPLOITED. Wierwille had NO empathy in realizing all the hardships and burdens that he was placing on this pilgrimage each year.
I know that I repeat myself.... but the only thing that explains all this, to me, is that wierwille was a blatant narcissist. He had NO empathy for others who went thru trauma and hardships. Wierwille had tunnel vision for only that which he deemed fitting or necessary. No holy spirit within was working in wierwille. He was governed by his narcissist pathological disorders. Full stop!
If the trustees couldn't stop the rain (by their believing) where the boiling heat and humidity collide into somewhat-expected torrential thunderstorms EACH YEAR...... how's about just using common sense? Wouldn't it have been smart and feasible to install drainage pipeline in the camping area? I know that Way Builders installed miles of electrical wiring for hookups and such.
For seventeen (17) years (1978-1995), twi made a boatload of money by using free labor from corps to put on the rock of ages. How about installing drainage pipeline so that campers experience far less discomfort after those Ohio thunderstorms? The male/female corps tents were set up to give the worker bees six hours of sleep before their next shift. Looking back at all this....... the coerced/exploited labor was off the charts. Work. Work. Work. Where was the thanks? Where was the love?
Oftentimes, the people (corps) who gave the most..... were the MOST EXPLOITED. Wierwille had NO empathy in realizing all the hardships and burdens that he was placing on this pilgrimage each year.
I know that I repeat myself.... but the only thing that explains all this, to me, is that wierwille was a blatant narcissist. He had NO empathy for others who went thru trauma and hardships. Wierwille had tunnel vision for only that which he deemed fitting or necessary. No holy spirit within was working in wierwille. He was governed by his narcissist pathological disorders. Full stop!
Good points.
A) vpw was put forth- by himself and others- as some sort of super-believer. lcm was convinced he was some sort of super-believer once he was twi president. It would be obvious who needs to set the good example and super-believe to blow the rain out of the area for the next few days. Done from the main stage, it would have allowed them to be fully theatrical AND settle the issue of just HOW bad@$$ they were- as much as they claimed to be, if they could alter weather patterns on command and in a minute. Yet, they never tried. That vpw CLAIMED he could do such things but he never TRIED to do something like that from the main stage just shows that vpw was secretly well aware just how POWERLESS he was in comparison to his claims.
I once walked some kids home in Summer, Once I got them to their block (a partially-protected block), I agreed they were safe enough to walk the last few steps by themselves (they were young teenagers walking less than a block.) I asked them to promise that- as soon as they got home- they would stop and pray for the coming rain to hold off until I got home. They agreed. I saw them off, and marched home with all reasonable speed, hoping to get home before the rain because I didn't pack an umbrella. As it turned out, they did exactly as requested, calling their family to the door so they could pray together immediately. Me, I prayed, marched, and just focused on making the best time. There was occasional thunder, and once a few drops began to fall, then stopped. I might say that the charged air even felt a bit frustrated- but that could easily be argued to be an active imagination. When I got home, I got as far as the elevator before the thunderstorm dropped, so I missed the sound of it starting. I did, however, get inside my building seconds before the storm hit. Naturally, one might consider this a fascinating coincidence, or think I'm exaggerating, or that I'm outright lying. (I insist I'm neither exaggerating nor lying.) Nobody made a big deal out of this at the time, but I respected those teens BEFORE this, and if anything, respected them more AFTER this.
So, a couple of teenagers were cool with praying to delay some weather for 20 minutes. For one super-believer, it should have been a piece of cake to MOVE some weather with a single prayer.
B) Yes, there's mundane solutions- which were NEVER put into actions. They knew where the tents were going to be. They knew where the rain runoffs happened. They knew where the relief was going to be needed (same spots as the last several years...) Why not make preparations during Corps Week- either something temporary for the next few weeks, or install something useful that could be maintained lightly each year? It would have been good for the people who showed up, and made for happier attendees. They had the people, they had the resources. The remaining reason they didn't do it was that they didn't CARE that anyone's tent was at risk of flooding every single year. If they were seen as PEOPLE and not as RESOURCES, this would have been very different. From the main stage, vpw would often talk about how much he loved the people who attended. But his love ended there- because after that, he elected never to TAKE ACTION to DEMONSTRATE that love- which means, of course, it was ALL TALK.
He had NO empathy for others who went thru trauma and hardships. Wierwille had tunnel vision for only that which he deemed fitting or necessary.
And no COMPASSION for "his people." No empathy for ANY others.
WordWolf said:
I once walked some kids home in Summer, Once I got them to their block (a partially-protected block), I agreed they were safe enough to walk the last few steps by themselves (they were young teenagers walking less than a block.) I asked them to promise that- as soon as they got home- they would stop and pray for the coming rain to hold off until I got home. They agreed. I saw them off, and marched home with all reasonable speed, hoping to get home before the rain because I didn't pack an umbrella. As it turned out, they did exactly as requested, calling their family to the door so they could pray together immediately. Me, I prayed, marched, and just focused on making the best time. There was occasional thunder, and once a few drops began to fall, then stopped. I might say that the charged air even felt a bit frustrated- but that could easily be argued to be an active imagination. When I got home, I got as far as the elevator before the thunderstorm dropped, so I missed the sound of it starting. I did, however, get inside my building seconds before the storm hit. Naturally, one might consider this a fascinating coincidence, or think I'm exaggerating, or that I'm outright lying. (I insist I'm neither exaggerating nor lying.) Nobody made a big deal out of this at the time, but I respected those teens BEFORE this, and if anything, respected them more AFTER this.
I view your story, WW, as neither exaggeration nor deception. It's clear to me that your story (and humans are ALL about stories) wasn't about you. It didn't revolve around you. I don't recall you EVER bragging about yourself. You shared a story to make a legitimate, valid point. And IMO, you communicated it very well.
And back to Skyrider's point about veepee, the whiny narcissistic creep probably could have made a lot happen for the people who sojourned every August if he only had a heart.
And back to Skyrider's point about veepee, the whiny narcissistic creep probably could have made a lot happen for the people who sojourned every August if he only had a heart.
I really think that if old empty head had stayed outside in a flooded tent he would have understood. I get the distinct impression that he always lead from the rear and really didn't experience very much of what he talked about. Im wasnt around when he was alive and came into TWI during the martindale years and honestly, I probably would have been ostrascized because theres no way Im travelling to a crap bag farm and sleeping in a tent in a field for two weeks...lol
I really think that if old empty head had stayed outside in a flooded tent he would have understood. I get the distinct impression that he always lead from the rear and really didn't experience very much of what he talked about. Im wasnt around when he was alive and came into TWI during the martindale years and honestly, I probably would have been ostrascized because theres no way Im travelling to a crap bag farm and sleeping in a tent in a field for two weeks...lol
Behold – we've once again accidentally stumbled upon the way to get ahead in TWI...it's not by merit or any natural leadership ability...having charisma might be okay but better not outshine wierwille...no, the key to a successful career in TWI is to be the best brown-noser you can be...just like his mentor, craig lacked empathy and compassion and was just as mean-spirited if not more so...they say imitation is the highest form of flattery...you go, Brown-noser ! !!!
Edited by T-Bone that brown-nosing editor - geeesh
I have to ask, but I think I know the answer: did you see Martindale among that "group of guys"?
Oh, and a second question: did he open that very spacious log cabin that he lived in, so that some of those flooded out could be dry overnight? Even if only for just the mums with kids under 10? (Think I may know the answer to that, too.)
Go on. Surprise me!
It's like you're a prophet or something!
No, it's much easier to yell at people for not stopping the rain.
"When some post about those warm, fuzzy feelings from the rock of ages.........I've got to admit, I had some of those experiences too. But after about my 4th roa....and being corps....those 6 hr - 12 hr work shifts, coupled with mandatory meetings and teachings in 98 degree weather for the next18 yearswas enough to douse any fire of excitement.
What is the backside of roa?
I suppose it could be called by many names.....but, to me, its the out-of-sight areas that any state fair or rodeo or event tries to hide from view. You know.......the smelly trash compactors, the honey wagon (sewer wastage) detail for rv areas, the port-a-pottie cleanup, etc. Also, the food warehousing area..... the staging and prep areas..... are massive undertakings for 18,000 people eating day after day.
Like most people.......I never minded working 4 to 6 hour shifts. That was no big deal......but when the shift was under-staffed or the workload kept growing......the corps were first in line to do the extra work. Not just one shift or one day, but throughout the TWO WEEKS (corps week & roa). And, the intense heat added to the challenge.....along with drenching downpours at night to soak everything in your tent."
"When some post about those warm, fuzzy feelings from the rock of ages.........I've got to admit, I had some of those experiences too. But after about my 4th roa....and being corps....those 6 hr - 12 hr work shifts, coupled with mandatory meetings and teachings in 98 degree weather for the next18 yearswas enough to douse any fire of excitement.
What is the backside of roa?
I suppose it could be called by many names.....but, to me, its the out-of-sight areas that any state fair or rodeo or event tries to hide from view. You know.......the smelly trash compactors, the honey wagon (sewer wastage) detail for rv areas, the port-a-pottie cleanup, etc. Also, the food warehousing area..... the staging and prep areas..... are massive undertakings for 18,000 people eating day after day.
Like most people.......I never minded working 4 to 6 hour shifts. That was no big deal......but when the shift was under-staffed or the workload kept growing......the corps were first in line to do the extra work. Not just one shift or one day, but throughout the TWO WEEKS (corps week & roa). And, the intense heat added to the challenge.....along with drenching downpours at night to soak everything in your tent."
........snip
Skyrider, your posts always give a POV that many of us non-Corps didn't see. Frankly, most of my negative TWI experiences involved Way Corps who were enforcing dictates from above and making my life miserable. And I'm sure some of them enjoyed the power trips that they engaged in. But we don't often consider that Way Corps were the leading wave of those who were abused.
Regarding the ROA, it didn't take long for it to change for me from a cool place to see old friends, kick back and enjoy the fellowship, to a burden. When the ROA was cancelled after 1995 I breathed a sigh of relief that I would never again be pressured to attend it ever again. Not only was that last ROA a horror show of flooding and heat, but Martindale billed it as a "class" where you were pushed to attend various scheduled teachings with little or no free time. Trying to get our kids fed, showered, and dressed each morning in time to rush them to children's fellowship so we could rush to the morning teaching. Then get yelled at after the morning of the flood because I missed a teaching so I could get our wet, muddy, tent and sleeping bags cleaned & dried and because my wife was a minute late for twig fellowship after stopping to get snacks for the kids. Apparently we weren't putting God first. Then rushing around on the morning that we were leaving so we could leave at the same time as our Corps Branch leader who insisted on "caravanning" with us, but then later decided to separate from us because we weren't moving fast enough or making too many bathroom stops.
Skyrider, your posts always give a POV that many of us non-Corps didn't see. Frankly, most of my negative TWI experiences involved Way Corps who were enforcing dictates from above and making my life miserable. And I'm sure some of them enjoyed the power trips that they engaged in. But we don't often consider that Way Corps were the leading wave of those who were abused.
.....snip
Twi taught us......."A believer is a follower and a faithful believer is a faithful follower."
The corps indoctrination taught....... "A corps leader is one who obeys corps leadership and confronts his local believers with truth...ie ministry mandates and standards to keep them 'sanctified as the faithful remnant in twi's household.'"
Confrontation is love....
Elitists/narcissists always think they are right....
My very first RoA (and first time at HQ) was spent as apprentice corps skivvying in the dishroom and in the meal tent. I had looked forward to a RoA and all the things it supposedly brought, and saw little to none of it. I also saw very, very few of my home twig, which was just a bit unkind since they'd flown from the other side of the world (as had I).
And so proceeded all future RoAs that I was at. I often got lumbered with cleaning the portaloos, which I was glad to do because everyone likes a clean toilet; but it would have been nice to have enjoyed some of what was on offer.
Funny story: one year I was scrubbing out toilets and a "roving minstrel" came to find me and sing me a song. The people who had asked this person to do so was a lovely family that I'd met at Family Camp a little earlier in the year, and they'd sought me out with great diligence because their little boy had really taken a shine to me. I was seriously surprised at this minstrel's visit, came out to see the family, we had a brief chat and I returned to duties. Soon after, that set of toilets blocked up. I'd been so surprised that I'd dropped the toilet brush down the portaloo...!
A less funny story: my home twig were at my last RoA (diligent lot; very big airfares involved) and wanted to spend a little time with me. I was kept too busy and on the very last day was begrudgingly given 1/2hr to spend with them. It was a very cold day and one of them gave me a winter sweater (!) and I gave them a load of materials to take back to the home country, all my Corps notes etc, because I would be leaving myself in a couple of weeks after cleanup.
How mean-spirited, though. Here I am, away from my twig, in the US; my twig from another country come to visit, and I'm not allowed (kept too busy) to see them... three years running. You'd think, half an hour or even an hour, over a week, wouldn't have been too much - but it was, apparently.
How mean-spirited, though. Here I am, away from my twig, in the US; my twig from another country come to visit, and I'm not allowed (kept too busy) to see them... three years running. You'd think, half an hour or even an hour, over a week, wouldn't have been too much - but it was, apparently.
Oh my! That's what cults do......
You were too kind, too obedient. I didn't know that the pottie brown shirts patrolled your work that tightly!! You had every right to show a little bit of rebel-spirit and spend time with friends from YOUR country.
Conditioning people to love their servitude is more efficient than strait coercion.
Applying psychological stress . . . Then the solution . . . Over and over and over . .
Typically in religious context it's threat of hell then promise of heaven that's the combo.
Thinking of PFAL . . . The thief cometh not . . . Followed by having the abundant life. . . .
VPW wasn't straight out saying you're going to hell if you don't serve him. (There is no hell . . Oh but there is)
Seems a bit more subtle way to go about things. And it's right there in the beginning.
vpw never actually said you'd go to hell if you didn't serve him.
HOWEVER,
he DID say that you'd have to comply with every single commitment you'd EVER made to him- or lose all your eternal rewards.
He didn't phrase it in that simple sentence, but he claimed that refusing to live up to all covenants - thus all promises to him and all agreements made with him- would mean losing one's rewards. He started by claiming that ministers who stopped being ministers (i.e. stopped sucking up entirely to him) would lose ALL their rewards. Then, it was all corps grads, and so on.
vpw spaced out his nooses. When you took the Foundational Class, everything was sweetness and light. But you were pushed to take the Intermediate. When you took the Intermediate, you were pushed to retake both and prepare for the Advanced Class. Then it was the push for the Advanced Class. As an Advanced Class Grad, the nooses began to drop, In between pushes to go WOW, to go Corps, and so on were claims about how faithfulness to God meant you HAD to be faithful to twi and vpw- "The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word" and so on. Eventually- or faster, when lcm was tying the nooses and more upfront about it- to be less than enthusiastic about twi was to betray God Almighty, for only twi was actually serving him and all other Christians walked in darkness and ignorance and unwittingly served the adversary. So, to leave twi was to completely abandon God Almighty.
The nooses descended very, very slowly. They were much more effective that way. People didn't see the nets drop over them. "In vain is the net spread in sight of any bird."
The nooses descended very, very slowly. They were much more effective that way. People didn't see the nets drop over them. "In vain is the net spread in sight of any bird."
I'm guessing the behavior was innate with VPW. He did not read a handbook "Cultleaders 101: Roping your first follower via Operant Conditioning".
They (cult leaders) act out behavior based on an internal environment different from most people's (they lack a stable identity). The follower projects meaning onto the leader based on how they think most people think. Example would be seeing strength in Hitler during time of crisis, "Wow, he is not fazed, what strength" . . . in reality he doesn't feel the same emotions because he cares about obtaining supply, not the situation.
wierwille pulled off a slow and remarkable transition …
from “teacher” to taskmaster
from teaching the truth will make you free, to the truth is you really work for me.
This has been said MANY times...... but we often give wierwille TOO MUCH CREDIT.
By 1960...... followers of wierwille (after 3 years) confronted vpw and harry about keeping ministry finances separate from the wierwille family farm. They DID NOT WANT wierwille to move his offices and "headquarters" to the ancestral wierwille farm near New Knoxville, Ohio. As a result, thirty (30) people deemed "board of directors" (giving a field perspective to twi's directors) exited twi, never to return.
The First Corps Program FAILED. To deflect from this failure, wierwille mocked it and labeled it as "the zero corps"...... because these young disciples would not jump thru all the hoops.
Wierwille had to power-grab Hefner's and Doop's 501c3 organizations to gain access to their thriving ministries and finances. Jimmy Doop spoke openly here at GSC in 2008 that wierwille was not trustworthy and abandoned his commitment to Doop.
Only six years (1971-1977) ...... before corps grads started exiting twi/wierwille. One of the ways wierwille tried to slow the hemorrhaging were his *corps letters.* He opined that "his" corps were abandoning him and that they were not salted to their commitment.
If wierwille would have lived another 10 years....... PERHAPS, his plagiarism and sexual predation would have caught up to him and landed his a$$ in prison.
If wierwille would have lived another 10 years....... PERHAPS, his plagiarism and sexual predation would have caught up to him and landed his a$$ in prison.
Given the timing of the advent of the internet and trancechat/waydale, my guess would be at least 15 more years. But the f**ker's dead now, thankfully.
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skyrider
How often does twi promote "Come, work on staff at hq" to advanced class students? How many newly-corps graduates are *assigned* to work staff-servitude at headquarters each year? Time and a
Watered Garden
During our brief tenure in FWC we spent a lot of time harvesting produce grown there. I distinctly remember apples, potatoes, tomatoes and perhaps onions. We were involved in making salsa; I've writte
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OldSkool
I suspect he alway did.
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Rejoice
My EXACT reaction!!
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Oakspear
This expectation to stop rain by believing crap continued for quite a while. I was at the last-ever ROA (1995?) with my whole family (me, wife and six kids). We had bought a big tent for the adults and the youngest four kids and a small dome tent for the teenagers. A couple of nights in there was a thunderstorm that lasted for hours. Torrents of rain that never seemed to stop. Of course it was no surprise that the low-lying tent city was going to be soon under water. I don't care how good your tent is, you're going to get flooded out. We ended up decamping to the Corps tents for the night. We were then "allowed" to use dryers in the on-site residences to dry out our sleeping bags. The part we were in wasn't even the worst. After I got my wife and kids safely in the Corps tents I, along with a group of guys waded into other parts of tent city to rescue help people whose tents were awash in calf-deep water.
And if that wasn't the worst of it, not only were we expected to be fresh and ready for the morning teaching and children's fellowship, but Martindale ripped into us all for not being prepared.
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Twinky
I have to ask, but I think I know the answer: did you see Martindale among that "group of guys"?
Oh, and a second question: did he open that very spacious log cabin that he lived in, so that some of those flooded out could be dry overnight? Even if only for just the mums with kids under 10? (Think I may know the answer to that, too.)
Go on. Surprise me!
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skyrider
If the trustees couldn't stop the rain (by their believing) where the boiling heat and humidity collide into somewhat-expected torrential thunderstorms EACH YEAR...... how's about just using common sense? Wouldn't it have been smart and feasible to install drainage pipeline in the camping area? I know that Way Builders installed miles of electrical wiring for hookups and such.
For seventeen (17) years (1978-1995), twi made a boatload of money by using free labor from corps to put on the rock of ages. How about installing drainage pipeline so that campers experience far less discomfort after those Ohio thunderstorms? The male/female corps tents were set up to give the worker bees six hours of sleep before their next shift. Looking back at all this....... the coerced/exploited labor was off the charts. Work. Work. Work. Where was the thanks? Where was the love?
Oftentimes, the people (corps) who gave the most..... were the MOST EXPLOITED. Wierwille had NO empathy in realizing all the hardships and burdens that he was placing on this pilgrimage each year.
I know that I repeat myself.... but the only thing that explains all this, to me, is that wierwille was a blatant narcissist. He had NO empathy for others who went thru trauma and hardships. Wierwille had tunnel vision for only that which he deemed fitting or necessary. No holy spirit within was working in wierwille. He was governed by his narcissist pathological disorders. Full stop!
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skyrider
Who'll Stop The Rain
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WordWolf
Good points.
A) vpw was put forth- by himself and others- as some sort of super-believer. lcm was convinced he was some sort of super-believer once he was twi president. It would be obvious who needs to set the good example and super-believe to blow the rain out of the area for the next few days. Done from the main stage, it would have allowed them to be fully theatrical AND settle the issue of just HOW bad@$$ they were- as much as they claimed to be, if they could alter weather patterns on command and in a minute. Yet, they never tried. That vpw CLAIMED he could do such things but he never TRIED to do something like that from the main stage just shows that vpw was secretly well aware just how POWERLESS he was in comparison to his claims.
I once walked some kids home in Summer, Once I got them to their block (a partially-protected block), I agreed they were safe enough to walk the last few steps by themselves (they were young teenagers walking less than a block.) I asked them to promise that- as soon as they got home- they would stop and pray for the coming rain to hold off until I got home. They agreed. I saw them off, and marched home with all reasonable speed, hoping to get home before the rain because I didn't pack an umbrella. As it turned out, they did exactly as requested, calling their family to the door so they could pray together immediately. Me, I prayed, marched, and just focused on making the best time. There was occasional thunder, and once a few drops began to fall, then stopped. I might say that the charged air even felt a bit frustrated- but that could easily be argued to be an active imagination. When I got home, I got as far as the elevator before the thunderstorm dropped, so I missed the sound of it starting. I did, however, get inside my building seconds before the storm hit. Naturally, one might consider this a fascinating coincidence, or think I'm exaggerating, or that I'm outright lying. (I insist I'm neither exaggerating nor lying.) Nobody made a big deal out of this at the time, but I respected those teens BEFORE this, and if anything, respected them more AFTER this.
So, a couple of teenagers were cool with praying to delay some weather for 20 minutes. For one super-believer, it should have been a piece of cake to MOVE some weather with a single prayer.
B) Yes, there's mundane solutions- which were NEVER put into actions. They knew where the tents were going to be. They knew where the rain runoffs happened. They knew where the relief was going to be needed (same spots as the last several years...) Why not make preparations during Corps Week- either something temporary for the next few weeks, or install something useful that could be maintained lightly each year? It would have been good for the people who showed up, and made for happier attendees. They had the people, they had the resources. The remaining reason they didn't do it was that they didn't CARE that anyone's tent was at risk of flooding every single year. If they were seen as PEOPLE and not as RESOURCES, this would have been very different. From the main stage, vpw would often talk about how much he loved the people who attended. But his love ended there- because after that, he elected never to TAKE ACTION to DEMONSTRATE that love- which means, of course, it was ALL TALK.
Little of this should surprise anyone, any more.
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Rocky
And no COMPASSION for "his people." No empathy for ANY others.
WordWolf said:
I once walked some kids home in Summer, Once I got them to their block (a partially-protected block), I agreed they were safe enough to walk the last few steps by themselves (they were young teenagers walking less than a block.) I asked them to promise that- as soon as they got home- they would stop and pray for the coming rain to hold off until I got home. They agreed. I saw them off, and marched home with all reasonable speed, hoping to get home before the rain because I didn't pack an umbrella. As it turned out, they did exactly as requested, calling their family to the door so they could pray together immediately. Me, I prayed, marched, and just focused on making the best time. There was occasional thunder, and once a few drops began to fall, then stopped. I might say that the charged air even felt a bit frustrated- but that could easily be argued to be an active imagination. When I got home, I got as far as the elevator before the thunderstorm dropped, so I missed the sound of it starting. I did, however, get inside my building seconds before the storm hit. Naturally, one might consider this a fascinating coincidence, or think I'm exaggerating, or that I'm outright lying. (I insist I'm neither exaggerating nor lying.) Nobody made a big deal out of this at the time, but I respected those teens BEFORE this, and if anything, respected them more AFTER this.
I view your story, WW, as neither exaggeration nor deception. It's clear to me that your story (and humans are ALL about stories) wasn't about you. It didn't revolve around you. I don't recall you EVER bragging about yourself. You shared a story to make a legitimate, valid point. And IMO, you communicated it very well.
And back to Skyrider's point about veepee, the whiny narcissistic creep probably could have made a lot happen for the people who sojourned every August if he only had a heart.
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OldSkool
I really think that if old empty head had stayed outside in a flooded tent he would have understood. I get the distinct impression that he always lead from the rear and really didn't experience very much of what he talked about. Im wasnt around when he was alive and came into TWI during the martindale years and honestly, I probably would have been ostrascized because theres no way Im travelling to a crap bag farm and sleeping in a tent in a field for two weeks...lol
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T-Bone
Behold – we've once again accidentally stumbled upon the way to get ahead in TWI...it's not by merit or any natural leadership ability...having charisma might be okay but better not outshine wierwille...no, the key to a successful career in TWI is to be the best brown-noser you can be...just like his mentor, craig lacked empathy and compassion and was just as mean-spirited if not more so...they say imitation is the highest form of flattery...you go, Brown-noser ! !!!
Edited by T-Bonethat brown-nosing editor - geeesh
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Oakspear
It's like you're a prophet or something!
No, it's much easier to yell at people for not stopping the rain.
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skyrider
Yelling, intense heat, thunderstorms, flooded tents.....
Reminds me of a thread from 15 years ago
The Backside of ROA
"When some post about those warm, fuzzy feelings from the rock of ages.........I've got to admit, I had some of those experiences too. But after about my 4th roa....and being corps....those 6 hr - 12 hr work shifts, coupled with mandatory meetings and teachings in 98 degree weather for the next 18 years was enough to douse any fire of excitement.
What is the backside of roa?
I suppose it could be called by many names.....but, to me, its the out-of-sight areas that any state fair or rodeo or event tries to hide from view. You know.......the smelly trash compactors, the honey wagon (sewer wastage) detail for rv areas, the port-a-pottie cleanup, etc. Also, the food warehousing area..... the staging and prep areas..... are massive undertakings for 18,000 people eating day after day.
Like most people.......I never minded working 4 to 6 hour shifts. That was no big deal......but when the shift was under-staffed or the workload kept growing......the corps were first in line to do the extra work. Not just one shift or one day, but throughout the TWO WEEKS (corps week & roa). And, the intense heat added to the challenge.....along with drenching downpours at night to soak everything in your tent."
........snip
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Oakspear
Skyrider, your posts always give a POV that many of us non-Corps didn't see. Frankly, most of my negative TWI experiences involved Way Corps who were enforcing dictates from above and making my life miserable. And I'm sure some of them enjoyed the power trips that they engaged in. But we don't often consider that Way Corps were the leading wave of those who were abused.
Regarding the ROA, it didn't take long for it to change for me from a cool place to see old friends, kick back and enjoy the fellowship, to a burden. When the ROA was cancelled after 1995 I breathed a sigh of relief that I would never again be pressured to attend it ever again. Not only was that last ROA a horror show of flooding and heat, but Martindale billed it as a "class" where you were pushed to attend various scheduled teachings with little or no free time. Trying to get our kids fed, showered, and dressed each morning in time to rush them to children's fellowship so we could rush to the morning teaching. Then get yelled at after the morning of the flood because I missed a teaching so I could get our wet, muddy, tent and sleeping bags cleaned & dried and because my wife was a minute late for twig fellowship after stopping to get snacks for the kids. Apparently we weren't putting God first. Then rushing around on the morning that we were leaving so we could leave at the same time as our Corps Branch leader who insisted on "caravanning" with us, but then later decided to separate from us because we weren't moving fast enough or making too many bathroom stops.
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skyrider
Twi taught us......."A believer is a follower and a faithful believer is a faithful follower."
The corps indoctrination taught....... "A corps leader is one who obeys corps leadership and confronts his local believers with truth...ie ministry mandates and standards to keep them 'sanctified as the faithful remnant in twi's household.'"
Confrontation is love....
Elitists/narcissists always think they are right....
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Twinky
My very first RoA (and first time at HQ) was spent as apprentice corps skivvying in the dishroom and in the meal tent. I had looked forward to a RoA and all the things it supposedly brought, and saw little to none of it. I also saw very, very few of my home twig, which was just a bit unkind since they'd flown from the other side of the world (as had I).
And so proceeded all future RoAs that I was at. I often got lumbered with cleaning the portaloos, which I was glad to do because everyone likes a clean toilet; but it would have been nice to have enjoyed some of what was on offer.
Funny story: one year I was scrubbing out toilets and a "roving minstrel" came to find me and sing me a song. The people who had asked this person to do so was a lovely family that I'd met at Family Camp a little earlier in the year, and they'd sought me out with great diligence because their little boy had really taken a shine to me. I was seriously surprised at this minstrel's visit, came out to see the family, we had a brief chat and I returned to duties. Soon after, that set of toilets blocked up. I'd been so surprised that I'd dropped the toilet brush down the portaloo...!
A less funny story: my home twig were at my last RoA (diligent lot; very big airfares involved) and wanted to spend a little time with me. I was kept too busy and on the very last day was begrudgingly given 1/2hr to spend with them. It was a very cold day and one of them gave me a winter sweater (!) and I gave them a load of materials to take back to the home country, all my Corps notes etc, because I would be leaving myself in a couple of weeks after cleanup.
How mean-spirited, though. Here I am, away from my twig, in the US; my twig from another country come to visit, and I'm not allowed (kept too busy) to see them... three years running. You'd think, half an hour or even an hour, over a week, wouldn't have been too much - but it was, apparently.
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skyrider
Oh my! That's what cults do......
You were too kind, too obedient. I didn't know that the pottie brown shirts patrolled your work that tightly!! You had every right to show a little bit of rebel-spirit and spend time with friends from YOUR country.
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skyrider
Twinky..... your work schedule at twi's annual rock of ages "festival," as a corps-slave, highlights the essence of this thread --- Twi-Servitude.
With work schedules like this....... GOOD RIDDANCE to the rock of ages.
With abuse like this....... GOOD RIDDANCE to the way international.
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skyrider
Servitude ..... Ultimate Servitude ..... reminds me of the final scene in the movie "Gosford Park."
The conclusion of Gosford Park
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Bolshevik
Conditioning people to love their servitude is more efficient than strait coercion.
Applying psychological stress . . . Then the solution . . . Over and over and over . .
Typically in religious context it's threat of hell then promise of heaven that's the combo.
Thinking of PFAL . . . The thief cometh not . . . Followed by having the abundant life. . . .
VPW wasn't straight out saying you're going to hell if you don't serve him. (There is no hell . . Oh but there is)
Seems a bit more subtle way to go about things. And it's right there in the beginning.
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WordWolf
vpw never actually said you'd go to hell if you didn't serve him.
HOWEVER,
he DID say that you'd have to comply with every single commitment you'd EVER made to him- or lose all your eternal rewards.
He didn't phrase it in that simple sentence, but he claimed that refusing to live up to all covenants - thus all promises to him and all agreements made with him- would mean losing one's rewards. He started by claiming that ministers who stopped being ministers (i.e. stopped sucking up entirely to him) would lose ALL their rewards. Then, it was all corps grads, and so on.
vpw spaced out his nooses. When you took the Foundational Class, everything was sweetness and light. But you were pushed to take the Intermediate. When you took the Intermediate, you were pushed to retake both and prepare for the Advanced Class. Then it was the push for the Advanced Class. As an Advanced Class Grad, the nooses began to drop, In between pushes to go WOW, to go Corps, and so on were claims about how faithfulness to God meant you HAD to be faithful to twi and vpw- "The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word" and so on. Eventually- or faster, when lcm was tying the nooses and more upfront about it- to be less than enthusiastic about twi was to betray God Almighty, for only twi was actually serving him and all other Christians walked in darkness and ignorance and unwittingly served the adversary. So, to leave twi was to completely abandon God Almighty.
The nooses descended very, very slowly. They were much more effective that way. People didn't see the nets drop over them. "In vain is the net spread in sight of any bird."
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T-Bone
wierwille pulled off a slow and remarkable transition …
from “teacher” to taskmaster
from teaching the truth will make you free, to the truth is you really work for me.
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Bolshevik
I'm guessing the behavior was innate with VPW. He did not read a handbook "Cultleaders 101: Roping your first follower via Operant Conditioning".
They (cult leaders) act out behavior based on an internal environment different from most people's (they lack a stable identity). The follower projects meaning onto the leader based on how they think most people think. Example would be seeing strength in Hitler during time of crisis, "Wow, he is not fazed, what strength" . . . in reality he doesn't feel the same emotions because he cares about obtaining supply, not the situation.
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skyrider
This has been said MANY times...... but we often give wierwille TOO MUCH CREDIT.
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Rocky
Given the timing of the advent of the internet and trancechat/waydale, my guess would be at least 15 more years. But the f**ker's dead now, thankfully.
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