Words, ideas, doctrines, passed down (or up) through generations. Personally, I stopped all the way lies in my house and hopefully my kids futures. It will only get worse for some that continue with the way doctrines that has roots from many generations before it. And I'm sure there are more and worse doctrines, more targeted doctrines, that have gone through more generations than I care to count.
Since you mentioned it, the way international and victor paul wierwille sure seem to put a lot of limitations on God Almighty! The entilre idea that God can only communicate with what he is --- spirit --- sure seems like some serious stupidity on the outside looking in. And they like coming up with wierdness....for example....the spirit of God is the light of God in concretion --- wtf is that exactly? And I bet you a dollar to a dime that all this non-sense is still taught at the advanced class.
perhaps TWI / weirwille didn't see it as putting limitations on God Almighty...maybe it all started out they simply wanted to funnel an infinite being down to our finite brains...after much brainstorming and several design revisions they figured out wierwille was the appropriate conduit and then it was simply a matter of what to put in the wide opening at the top of the funnel and guided through the small opening at the bottom...after plagiarizing a bunch of authors to pour in the wide opening at the top they soon discovered what came out of the bottom end - - money...lots and lots of money...see illustration below:
This is probably off topic but what you just said reminded me of something I've wondered about a couple of times – and maybe there is no definitive answer – but it seems like martindale went to great lengths to distinguish himself from wierwille...and there's been talk here of martindale saying you could get possessed by taking the old PFAL class...I don't have a point here other than thinking out loud along the lines of what you said earlier about sowing the seeds of your own demise – only in this case I'm thinking martindale cutting his own throat – or I don't know - tarnishing the image of wierwille – or challenging wierwille's status – there's a new cult leader in town...did martindale actually think he could fill the clodhopper shoes of a plagiaristic, predatory, narcissistic, megalomaniac? I mean it's sort of like getting rid of Mickey Mouse who is the mascot of Walt Disney and substituting Goofy...and just thinking this through a little further - The Way International is a Mickey Mouse operation in it's own right...so I guess we'd have to change the saying to TWI is a Goofy operation in it's own right.
I don't remember Martindale ever saying that you could get possessed by taking the PFAL class, but I have been away from that nonsense for 20 years, so maybe. But he did push the whole concept of "old wineskins" when it came to a lot of Wierwille-produced material, almost like it was a 20th century version of dispensationalism. Advanced Class grads weren't Advanced Class grads any more if you didn't take hisclass, you got reproved if you wore your old WOW pin to a Way function. I think there was more Wierwille-focused loyalty than he anticipated.
Well, yes, "children of" and other such phrases would imply relations or relatives of.....like the "father of lies" is obviously a relationship. I tend to think it (whatever it is) has been passed down through generations.
Sure it could be a familial relationship, or it could just be a figurative usage. I just saw a reference to Galileo as the father of modern astronomy. No implication that he was literally a father or ancestor of astronomers
I don't remember Martindale ever saying that you could get possessed by taking the PFAL class, but I have been away from that nonsense for 20 years, so maybe. But he did push the whole concept of "old wineskins" when it came to a lot of Wierwille-produced material, almost like it was a 20th century version of dispensationalism. Advanced Class grads weren't Advanced Class grads any more if you didn't take hisclass, you got reproved if you wore your old WOW pin to a Way function. I think there was more Wierwille-focused loyalty than he anticipated.
I never heard that either - must have been after I left in 86 so you can imagine my surprise when I heard it - see below are posts from PFAL wonder camp thread:
On 6/26/2021 at 5:28 PM, OldSkool said:
Didnt martindale used to say people were getting posessed from old pfal classes?
On 6/26/2021 at 6:05 PM, skyrider said:
Yep.
And, if you listened to music tapes from cop-outs,,,,,, that would get you possessed too.
On 6/26/2021 at 6:18 PM, T-Bone said:
holy crap !!!
he really said that ?!!!!!!
that's so bizarre !
the cult mentality of TWI doesn't even make sense to me anymore...and the dwindling number of folks still in TWI are a lot worse off than I thought.
On 6/27/2021 at 5:35 PM, Twinky said:
Yes he did.
Had you left by the time the order came through to destroy all those old tapes from STPDRO and many others, etc? If you didn't destroy them, you'd get pozzest.
Nonetheless, some tapes were bootlegged and still circulated. Come to think of it, maybe that's why I got possezt many years later...
Sure it could be a familial relationship, or it could just be a figurative usage. I just saw a reference to Galileo as the father of modern astronomy. No implication that he was literally a father or ancestor of astronomers
Yes, figurative for thoughts, words, ideas, doctrines - related, their relationships to each other. Just think of how twi progressed into their doctrines. And the results of that doctrine.
I think the Advanced Class just might be wierwille's opus on PFAL.
Both PFAL and The Advanced Class are resplendent with wierwille's fourfold whammy of obfuscating just about anything in the Bible – it's sort of a signature-intuition-fundamentalism-spiritualism-Gnosticism kind of a thing:
1.signature intuition – refers to what wierwille felt was true regardless of what a passage might really mean; though incompetent with the biblical languages and having a penchant for plagiarism and logical fallacies he was able to cobble together something he was proud of; Signature intuition is wierwille's unique sixth sense of nonsense to divine Scripture so it always suited his lifestyle - and the devil be damned! It seemed to me wierwille was usually flying by the seat of his pants – using his own initiative and “perceptions” and during live teachings he frequently strayed from the very interpretative keys he taught in PFAL. I think he lacked the discipline, wisdom, experience and honesty of a seasoned researcher and so relied more on intuition to pull off his act. He would often play his trump card “Father revealed it to me”
Real Bible scholars focus on trying to properly understand the Scriptures through the context, biblical languages, cultural context , historical context, the systematic study of the texts, and plain logic – it really is a discipline, a science and an art – if any intuition is involved it's in gaining a feel for the significance to ascribe to certain data and where more attention would prove to be most beneficial.
2.fundamentalism – a strict, literal interpretation of the Bible – wierwille uses passages like in Mark 11 where Jesus talked of moving mountains (a common metaphor of that day about solving seemingly difficult or impossible problems) as a proof text for the law of believing. ..There was very little consistency in his literal-ism - I never heard wierwille advocating we should cut off a sinful hand, foot or eye per the directive given in Mark 9:43-47 ...wierwille made such a big deal in PFAL about how “The Word” means what it says and says what it means – and yet how many folks who sat under his teaching ministry ever confronted “the teacher” of PFAL about his plagiarism, lies, stealing, cheating, vindictiveness, fits of uncontrollable rage, unkindness, lack of compassion, sexual-predatory behavior per the clear directives of Ephesians 4: 20 - 32 ...well, there's actually been a few who have done that and have lived to tell about it on Grease Spot....“The Word” means what it says and says what it means – what a joke! It meant nothing to a consummate hypocrite...the joke is on all of us who believed this charlatan.
3. spiritualism – wierwille speculated on how the spiritual realm works – but talked about it like it was absolutely true. anything you wanted to know about – like what God can or cannot do – just ask him; he promoted himself as an expert on the relationship between spirit and matter; whatever he said goes even if there's no way to verify it; and whatever he said was regurgitated and parroted down through the ranks of TWI – thus wierwille's nonsense spiritualism was perpetuated; can people be born again of the wrong seed? Sure, why not – who's going to prove there's no such thing? Are you possessed? Not sure? Ask him...but don't challenge him or ask him to prove any of his malarkey. This isn't real science you know. Real science is pursued through the scientific method which is principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.
4.Gnosticism – the core of Gnosticism rests on secret knowledge - which is the big hype of the Advanced Class; matter...flesh is evil...sinful...imperfect and the Spirit is good...pure... perfect and there is a clear separation between the material world and the spiritual world; let's find out about all the categories of devil spirits...the fully initiated are the elite who deserve to have influence and authority over others...part of the big hype of the Advanced Class is the mystique of conspiracies – the Illuminati, One World Government, the wrong-seed boys running everything,..part of the attraction to conspiracies may have something to do with what Ello Martino Ph.D. said:
"humans have a need for control and order when distressed. Fear, uncertainty, and feelings of being out of control can lead people to search for patterns and meaning in people's behavior as a way to make sense of the chaos and attempt to navigate the fear of the unknown. This is an evolutionary adaptive mechanism designed to keep us alive"
the real conspiracy is TWI's secret plan to exploit followers who believe all their bull$hit.
TWI blows smoke up your a$$ so you feel like you're the real movers and shakers of this crazy-town nonsense! oh yeah - fully initiated - "spiritually mature" (spiritually mature...i.e. you've not only taken all the classes but you've put wierwille up on the little adoration pedestal in your heart) The spiritually mature “get “ wierwille's skewed interpretation of Scripture...if you do - then it means you've guzzled down the Kool-Aid ! Congrats !!!!
the Advanced Class was always wierwille’s fourfold whammy of obfuscation at its best !
Sure it could be a familial relationship, or it could just be a figurative usage. I just saw a reference to Galileo as the father of modern astronomy. No implication that he was literally a father or ancestor of astronomers
"I got into an argument with my father the other day. I argued that Plato was the Father of Philosophy. My father took the contrary position that I should wax the kitchen floor. I said, 'Well, the kitchen floor doesn't exist- at least not in the permanent sense like the CONCEPT "floor" does.' He replied, ' Does the concept "your skull" exist?' Then he surprised me by juxtaposing the two concepts." - Emo Phillips.
In early Genesis, we see Jubal and Tubal-cain referred to in that sense of being the father of musicians, and blacksmiths and blacksmithing, respectively. Didn't suggest all musicians were genetic descendants of Jubal or all blacksmiths were genetic descendants of Tubal-cain. (Moreso than anyone else at that point, at least.)
"Real Bible scholars focus on trying to properly understand the Scriptures through the context, biblical languages, cultural context , historical context, the systematic study of the texts, and plain logic – it really is a discipline, a science and an art – if any intuition is involved it's in gaining a feel for the significance to ascribe to certain data and where more attention would prove to be most beneficial. "
It's been said- by Psychologists studying such things- that real "intuition" is the subconscious ability to correctly recognize patterns before they're evident to the conscious. So, actual study in a subject works WITH "intuition", not against it. The more you know and understand a subject's patterns, the more intuition can help bridge the gaps and point out where there are CONNECTIONS that may not have been evident.
That actually goes hand-in-hand with "genius"- which has been described (at least some of the time) as an ability to see actual connections between objects that are not related.
There is obviously a difference between "I can see a connection between the bus being late this morning and the secret messages in the commercials while I ate my breakfast" (not ACTUAL connections) and genius because genius sees connections that ARE and dismisses those that are not, or at least is skeptical of them. Humans normally try to find patterns in their everyday existence, but that doesn't MEAN that, say, the clouds actually have the shape of the thing you see in them. Similarly, just imagining what you saw was an actual pattern isn't the same as seeing a legitimate correlation between things. Yes, it's next-to-impossible to find a taxi on Halloween or New Years Eve. However, that's not because The Revolution Has Arrived, it means those evenings ALWAYS strain the taxi delivery system all over the USA. Within 12 hours, the wait times return to normal. Anybody who doesn't understand Occam's Razor has no business trying to figure out what's a coincidence and what's significant.
...signature intuition – refers to what wierwille felt was true regardless of what a passage might really mean; though incompetent with the biblical languages and having a penchant for plagiarism and logical fallacies he was able to cobble together something he was proud of; Signature intuition is wierwille's unique sixth sense of nonsense to divine Scripture so it always suited his lifestyle - and the devil be damned! It seemed to me wierwille was usually flying by the seat of his pants – using his own initiative and “perceptions” and during live teachings he frequently strayed from the very interpretative keys he taught in PFAL. I think he lacked the discipline, wisdom, experience and honesty of a seasoned researcher and so relied more on intuition to pull off his act. He would often play his trump card “Father revealed it to me”
Your post is a perfect distillation of TWI "doctrine"
Let's not forget his common assertion that the original had to be such-and-such (because otherwise it would contradict his predetermined interpretation)
Save yourself some money and time by getting one of these babies:
The Magic 8 Ball
...oddly enough, displayed in this picture is the same answer I used to get when I asked any questions during or after the PFAL class and the Advanced Class ...coincidence or did wierwille plagiarize some answers from The Magic 8 Ball ?
Edited by T-Bone my new editor is The Magic 8 Ball...try editing again later
I don't remember Martindale ever saying that you could get possessed by taking the PFAL class, but I have been away from that nonsense for 20 years, so maybe. . .
I seem to remember everything and anything gets one possessed. Everything gives off something. Everything is spiritual. Even the grass.
Being possessed or in-line-ment (Sp??) and harmony was always based on what someone else thought. Or felt. Or ate that morning.
I forgot about the Advanced Class Specials....where we rehashed all the useless stuff we were fed in the Advanced Class
So, let's see.....
lcm declared there was a new Advanced Class, and now your previous Advanced Class was voided, so now you had to pay AGAIN to take the NEW Advanced Class and find out how deficient lcm was when he made it. Then you had to pay for "Advanced Class Specials", which covered the SAME material but charged you AGAIN for them? twi is indeed a shameless money machine, with all the students as cash cows.
lcm declared there was a new Advanced Class, and now your previous Advanced Class was voided, so now you had to pay AGAIN to take the NEW Advanced Class and find out how deficient lcm was when he made it. Then you had to pay for "Advanced Class Specials", which covered the SAME material but charged you AGAIN for them? twi is indeed a shameless money machine, with all the students as cash cows.
I bet they did remove that rule. This Man Curry Blake is the definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Most of what he says doesn't even make sense. His wife used to freak out and start cursing at him and trying to kill herself and they would say they had to get that demon out of her. And lay hands and shed shake on the floor and be exercised. Dawn Blake was her name. Their kids didn't go to school and I never saw them do any homeschooling like they sd. So I'm sure any degrees they have that are through christain colleges are all completely bogus. Probably went to their own school. And did the work just like when they were kids. They didn't. When could they have. We were always skating or hanging out or going to some church. Many many churches. They never stayed at one cause he wasn't setup yet. Im not even sure this John g lake guy is real. Or if he is Curry is just his apprentice. John g lake was accused of being a con and stole a bunch of people's money.
4.Gnosticism – the core of Gnosticism rests on secret knowledge - which is the big hype of the Advanced Class; matter...flesh is evil...sinful...imperfect and the Spirit is good...pure... perfect and there is a clear separation between the material world and the spiritual world; let's find out about all the categories of devil spirits...the fully initiated are the elite who deserve to have influence and authority over others...part of the big hype of the Advanced Class is the mystique of conspiracies – the Illuminati, One World Government, the wrong-seed boys running everything,..part of the attraction to conspiracies may have something to do with what Ello Martino Ph.D. said:
"humans have a need for control and order when distressed. Fear, uncertainty, and feelings of being out of control can lead people to search for patterns and meaning in people's behavior as a way to make sense of the chaos and attempt to navigate the fear of the unknown. This is an evolutionary adaptive mechanism designed to keep us alive"
the real conspiracy is TWI's secret plan to exploit followers who believe all their bull$hit.
TWI blows smoke up your a$$ so you feel like you're the real movers and shakers of this crazy-town nonsense! oh yeah - fully initiated - "spiritually mature" (spiritually mature...i.e. you've not only taken all the classes but you've put wierwille up on the little adoration pedestal in your heart) The spiritually mature “get “ wierwille's skewed interpretation of Scripture...if you do - then it means you've guzzled down the Kool-Aid ! Congrats !!!!
This is a follow-up piece on Gnosticism… by way of my philosophical amateurism wierwille’s Gnostic-ishness is somewhat related to intellectualism . – which is synonymous with rationalism - knowledge derived from reason. In the context of social interactions, intellectualism may carry a negative connotation about someone who focuses more on thinking than practicality. A unique distinction of wierwille ideology is that the a priori assumption is “The Word” - or rather wierwille’s theories based on his own interpretation of the Bible. If you consider fundamentalism as open-pit mining of ideas close to the surface of the Scriptures, then perhaps wierwille’s Gnostic-ish intellectualism is underground mining to produce convoluted, bizarre, and grandiose notions from an unorthodox vein of thought – and more often than not a nonexistent vein of thought.
If you recall a key phrase from PFAL you might see the correlation with Gnosticism – the exaltation of knowledge…especially the superiority of a certain kind of knowledge…a secret knowledge revealed to wierwille (remember his claim of God teaching him “The Word” like it hasn’t been known since the 1st century): The greatest secret in the world today is that the Bible is the revealed word and will of God…and further along in the class wierwille presents one of his many tantalizing concepts of absolute cognizance as a byproduct of his teaching on the holy spirit – after which he says you will know, that you know, that you know…In my opinion his repetitiveness of “know” as a means to cinch the absolute certainty of his beliefs rings hollow because it’s based on his shoddy methods by which he came to those beliefs (I believe a big chunk of wierwille’sModus operandiwas a lot of plagiarism…after all he was an unabashed glory hound with delusions of grandeur). Take note of what Wikipedia says about Gnosticism : Gnostics considered the principal element of salvation to be direct knowledge of the supreme divinity in the form of mystical or esoteric insight. Many Gnostic texts deal not in concepts of sin and repentance, but with illusion and enlightenment.
When I think of intelligent debates, I think there’s usually some standards of logic, ways of identifying and calling out biases that may obscure the issues and, in that regard, most honest folks strive for some sort of clarity and accuracy to get their point across. But when I think of myTWI-mindset that revolved around wierwille, it’s not so much about arguing from a certain perspective as it is imposingwierwille’s point of view on some unsuspecting soul.
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Oakspear
That whole "Great Principle" thing made no sense. God can't communicate except to what he is, i.e. spirit? But somehow that spirit that he "created in you" can communicate to your mind?
skyrider
EXACTLY...... And further, when you sit back and think about it.....wierwille, in all his narcissistic glory, attempted to become mediator between God and man. Step aside Jesus Christ and holy s
WordWolf
Anyone notice that "The Great Principle" was based on something that CHANGED? "God is Spirit, and God can only give what He is- which is Spirit." "God is Spirit, and God can only communicat
cman
Words, ideas, doctrines, passed down (or up) through generations. Personally, I stopped all the way lies in my house and hopefully my kids futures. It will only get worse for some that continue with the way doctrines that has roots from many generations before it. And I'm sure there are more and worse doctrines, more targeted doctrines, that have gone through more generations than I care to count.
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T-Bone
perhaps TWI / weirwille didn't see it as putting limitations on God Almighty...maybe it all started out they simply wanted to funnel an infinite being down to our finite brains...after much brainstorming and several design revisions they figured out wierwille was the appropriate conduit and then it was simply a matter of what to put in the wide opening at the top of the funnel and guided through the small opening at the bottom...after plagiarizing a bunch of authors to pour in the wide opening at the top they soon discovered what came out of the bottom end - - money...lots and lots of money...see illustration below:
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Oakspear
I don't remember Martindale ever saying that you could get possessed by taking the PFAL class, but I have been away from that nonsense for 20 years, so maybe. But he did push the whole concept of "old wineskins" when it came to a lot of Wierwille-produced material, almost like it was a 20th century version of dispensationalism. Advanced Class grads weren't Advanced Class grads any more if you didn't take his class, you got reproved if you wore your old WOW pin to a Way function. I think there was more Wierwille-focused loyalty than he anticipated.
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Oakspear
Sure it could be a familial relationship, or it could just be a figurative usage. I just saw a reference to Galileo as the father of modern astronomy. No implication that he was literally a father or ancestor of astronomers
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T-Bone
I never heard that either - must have been after I left in 86 so you can imagine my surprise when I heard it - see below are posts from PFAL wonder camp thread:
Edited by T-Bonetypos and formatting
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cman
Yes, figurative for thoughts, words, ideas, doctrines - related, their relationships to each other. Just think of how twi progressed into their doctrines. And the results of that doctrine.
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T-Bone
I think the Advanced Class just might be wierwille's opus on PFAL.
Both PFAL and The Advanced Class are resplendent with wierwille's fourfold whammy of obfuscating just about anything in the Bible – it's sort of a signature-intuition-fundamentalism-spiritualism-Gnosticism kind of a thing:
1. signature intuition – refers to what wierwille felt was true regardless of what a passage might really mean; though incompetent with the biblical languages and having a penchant for plagiarism and logical fallacies he was able to cobble together something he was proud of; Signature intuition is wierwille's unique sixth sense of nonsense to divine Scripture so it always suited his lifestyle - and the devil be damned! It seemed to me wierwille was usually flying by the seat of his pants – using his own initiative and “perceptions” and during live teachings he frequently strayed from the very interpretative keys he taught in PFAL. I think he lacked the discipline, wisdom, experience and honesty of a seasoned researcher and so relied more on intuition to pull off his act. He would often play his trump card “Father revealed it to me”
Real Bible scholars focus on trying to properly understand the Scriptures through the context, biblical languages, cultural context , historical context, the systematic study of the texts, and plain logic – it really is a discipline, a science and an art – if any intuition is involved it's in gaining a feel for the significance to ascribe to certain data and where more attention would prove to be most beneficial.
2. fundamentalism – a strict, literal interpretation of the Bible – wierwille uses passages like in Mark 11 where Jesus talked of moving mountains (a common metaphor of that day about solving seemingly difficult or impossible problems) as a proof text for the law of believing. ..There was very little consistency in his literal-ism - I never heard wierwille advocating we should cut off a sinful hand, foot or eye per the directive given in Mark 9:43-47 ...wierwille made such a big deal in PFAL about how “The Word” means what it says and says what it means – and yet how many folks who sat under his teaching ministry ever confronted “the teacher” of PFAL about his plagiarism, lies, stealing, cheating, vindictiveness, fits of uncontrollable rage, unkindness, lack of compassion, sexual-predatory behavior per the clear directives of Ephesians 4: 20 - 32 ...well, there's actually been a few who have done that and have lived to tell about it on Grease Spot....“The Word” means what it says and says what it means – what a joke! It meant nothing to a consummate hypocrite...the joke is on all of us who believed this charlatan.
3. spiritualism – wierwille speculated on how the spiritual realm works – but talked about it like it was absolutely true. anything you wanted to know about – like what God can or cannot do – just ask him; he promoted himself as an expert on the relationship between spirit and matter; whatever he said goes even if there's no way to verify it; and whatever he said was regurgitated and parroted down through the ranks of TWI – thus wierwille's nonsense spiritualism was perpetuated; can people be born again of the wrong seed? Sure, why not – who's going to prove there's no such thing? Are you possessed? Not sure? Ask him...but don't challenge him or ask him to prove any of his malarkey. This isn't real science you know. Real science is pursued through the scientific method which is principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.
4. Gnosticism – the core of Gnosticism rests on secret knowledge - which is the big hype of the Advanced Class; matter...flesh is evil...sinful...imperfect and the Spirit is good...pure... perfect and there is a clear separation between the material world and the spiritual world; let's find out about all the categories of devil spirits...the fully initiated are the elite who deserve to have influence and authority over others...part of the big hype of the Advanced Class is the mystique of conspiracies – the Illuminati, One World Government, the wrong-seed boys running everything,..part of the attraction to conspiracies may have something to do with what Ello Martino Ph.D. said:
"humans have a need for control and order when distressed. Fear, uncertainty, and feelings of being out of control can lead people to search for patterns and meaning in people's behavior as a way to make sense of the chaos and attempt to navigate the fear of the unknown. This is an evolutionary adaptive mechanism designed to keep us alive"
from: Psychology Today: Why You Are Attracted to Conspiracy Theories
the real conspiracy is TWI's secret plan to exploit followers who believe all their bull$hit.
TWI blows smoke up your a$$ so you feel like you're the real movers and shakers of this crazy-town nonsense! oh yeah - fully initiated - "spiritually mature" (spiritually mature...i.e. you've not only taken all the classes but you've put wierwille up on the little adoration pedestal in your heart) The spiritually mature “get “ wierwille's skewed interpretation of Scripture...if you do - then it means you've guzzled down the Kool-Aid !
Congrats !!!! 
the Advanced Class was always wierwille’s fourfold whammy of obfuscation at its best !
Edited by T-Bonetypos and formatting
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WordWolf
"I got into an argument with my father the other day. I argued that Plato was the Father of Philosophy. My father took the contrary position that I should wax the kitchen floor. I said, 'Well, the kitchen floor doesn't exist- at least not in the permanent sense like the CONCEPT "floor" does.' He replied, ' Does the concept "your skull" exist?' Then he surprised me by juxtaposing the two concepts." - Emo Phillips.
In early Genesis, we see Jubal and Tubal-cain referred to in that sense of being the father of musicians, and blacksmiths and blacksmithing, respectively. Didn't suggest all musicians were genetic descendants of Jubal or all blacksmiths were genetic descendants of Tubal-cain. (Moreso than anyone else at that point, at least.)
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WordWolf
"Real Bible scholars focus on trying to properly understand the Scriptures through the context, biblical languages, cultural context , historical context, the systematic study of the texts, and plain logic – it really is a discipline, a science and an art – if any intuition is involved it's in gaining a feel for the significance to ascribe to certain data and where more attention would prove to be most beneficial. "
It's been said- by Psychologists studying such things- that real "intuition" is the subconscious ability to correctly recognize patterns before they're evident to the conscious. So, actual study in a subject works WITH "intuition", not against it. The more you know and understand a subject's patterns, the more intuition can help bridge the gaps and point out where there are CONNECTIONS that may not have been evident.
That actually goes hand-in-hand with "genius"- which has been described (at least some of the time) as an ability to see actual connections between objects that are not related.
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
There is obviously a difference between "I can see a connection between the bus being late this morning and the secret messages in the commercials while I ate my breakfast" (not ACTUAL connections) and genius because genius sees connections that ARE and dismisses those that are not, or at least is skeptical of them. Humans normally try to find patterns in their everyday existence, but that doesn't MEAN that, say, the clouds actually have the shape of the thing you see in them. Similarly, just imagining what you saw was an actual pattern isn't the same as seeing a legitimate correlation between things. Yes, it's next-to-impossible to find a taxi on Halloween or New Years Eve. However, that's not because The Revolution Has Arrived, it means those evenings ALWAYS strain the taxi delivery system all over the USA. Within 12 hours, the wait times return to normal. Anybody who doesn't understand Occam's Razor has no business trying to figure out what's a coincidence and what's significant.
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Oakspear
Quote of the day!
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Oakspear
Your post is a perfect distillation of TWI "doctrine"
Let's not forget his common assertion that the original had to be such-and-such (because otherwise it would contradict his predetermined interpretation)
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T-Bone
Thinking about taking the Advanced Class?
Save yourself some money and time by getting one of these babies:
The Magic 8 Ball
...oddly enough, displayed in this picture is the same answer I used to get when I asked any questions during or after the PFAL class and the Advanced Class ...coincidence or did wierwille plagiarize some answers from The Magic 8 Ball ?
Edited by T-Bonemy new editor is The Magic 8 Ball...try editing again later
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Bolshevik
I seem to remember everything and anything gets one possessed. Everything gives off something. Everything is spiritual. Even the grass.
Being possessed or in-line-ment (Sp??) and harmony was always based on what someone else thought. Or felt. Or ate that morning.
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Bolshevik
LCM could have a bad day and teenagers a thousand miles away get targeted.
Hope Okie and the devil are sitting on a tack. Sitting on a tack. Sitting on a tack, forever.
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Bolshevik
Oh yep.
Advanced Class Specials
Cause everyone needed to gather and listen to the lists of what did get you possessed and a list of precautions to avoid getting possessed.
Broad is the gate . . . Narrow is The Way.
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Bolshevik
I mean if the manifestations were supposed to help you discern and know and be wise and believe . . .
What's with all the meetings????
Knowbody seems to know how to work anything . . . All Nine All the Nonsense
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Oakspear
I forgot about the Advanced Class Specials....where we rehashed all the useless stuff we were fed in the Advanced Class
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Bolshevik
Shoulda called 'em Special Ed.
Retreats were Advances. Gonna catch that red dot, dangit.
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WordWolf
So, let's see.....
lcm declared there was a new Advanced Class, and now your previous Advanced Class was voided, so now you had to pay AGAIN to take the NEW Advanced Class and find out how deficient lcm was when he made it. Then you had to pay for "Advanced Class Specials", which covered the SAME material but charged you AGAIN for them? twi is indeed a shameless money machine, with all the students as cash cows.
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T-Bone
More like fleeced sheep
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frank123lol
Last AC was 96 Spiritual suspicion was taught! yeah paranoids on the loose everyone was suspect
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BHolmes
I bet they did remove that rule. This Man Curry Blake is the definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Most of what he says doesn't even make sense. His wife used to freak out and start cursing at him and trying to kill herself and they would say they had to get that demon out of her. And lay hands and shed shake on the floor and be exercised. Dawn Blake was her name. Their kids didn't go to school and I never saw them do any homeschooling like they sd. So I'm sure any degrees they have that are through christain colleges are all completely bogus. Probably went to their own school. And did the work just like when they were kids. They didn't. When could they have. We were always skating or hanging out or going to some church. Many many churches. They never stayed at one cause he wasn't setup yet. Im not even sure this John g lake guy is real. Or if he is Curry is just his apprentice. John g lake was accused of being a con and stole a bunch of people's money.
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T-Bone
This is a follow-up piece on Gnosticism… by way of my philosophical amateurism
wierwille’s Gnostic-ishness is somewhat related to intellectualism . – which is synonymous with rationalism - knowledge derived from reason. In the context of social interactions, intellectualism may carry a negative connotation about someone who focuses more on thinking than practicality. A unique distinction of wierwille ideology is that the a priori assumption is “The Word” - or rather wierwille’s theories based on his own interpretation of the Bible. If you consider fundamentalism as open-pit mining of ideas close to the surface of the Scriptures, then perhaps wierwille’s Gnostic-ish intellectualism is underground mining to produce convoluted, bizarre, and grandiose notions from an unorthodox vein of thought – and more often than not a nonexistent vein of thought.
If you recall a key phrase from PFAL you might see the correlation with Gnosticism – the exaltation of knowledge…especially the superiority of a certain kind of knowledge…a secret knowledge revealed to wierwille (remember his claim of God teaching him “The Word” like it hasn’t been known since the 1st century): The greatest secret in the world today is that the Bible is the revealed word and will of God…and further along in the class wierwille presents one of his many tantalizing concepts of absolute cognizance as a byproduct of his teaching on the holy spirit – after which he says you will know, that you know, that you know…In my opinion his repetitiveness of “know” as a means to cinch the absolute certainty of his beliefs rings hollow because it’s based on his shoddy methods by which he came to those beliefs (I believe a big chunk of wierwille’s Modus operandi was a lot of plagiarism…after all he was an unabashed glory hound with delusions of grandeur). Take note of what Wikipedia says about Gnosticism : Gnostics considered the principal element of salvation to be direct knowledge of the supreme divinity in the form of mystical or esoteric insight. Many Gnostic texts deal not in concepts of sin and repentance, but with illusion and enlightenment.
When I think of intelligent debates, I think there’s usually some standards of logic, ways of identifying and calling out biases that may obscure the issues and, in that regard, most honest folks strive for some sort of clarity and accuracy to get their point across. But when I think of my TWI-mindset that revolved around wierwille, it’s not so much about arguing from a certain perspective as it is imposing wierwille’s point of view on some unsuspecting soul.
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