Advanced class

[Bolshevik]

Took the Advanced Class same year as LCM Jr.  . . . The Rock was no longer a thing and I forget the month that was . . . I think the Advance Class sort of was an attempt to replace the function of The Rock as far as "coming home".  . . they started those bus tours.

Overall this isn't very fair to fireflies to associate them with the seasons in New Knoxville.  

[T-Bone]

wierwille disparaged intuition and feelings in PFAL but not in the Advanced Class...In PFAL wierwille would go on about how feelings come and go. But in the Advanced Class I remember him relating an incident of knowing what to minister to a lady for because his “ovaries hurt”. Now how does that not imply it was a feeling? ...and he would say other warm and fuzzy things like revelation can be first thought...

...Now think about the definition of intuition: the ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning; a thing that one knows or considers likely from instinctive feeling rather than conscious reasoning...I don't doubt that God can reveal anything to anyone by any means. But in my 12 years of involvement with TWI I have never witnessed anyone actually demonstrating the revelation or power manifestations...there was a lot of talk about them...there was the “I know a believer who knows a believer who said some phenomenal blah blah happened.”  ....and here's something scary to think about: how many times did you blow off a bad feeling about something wierwille said or did, or any other TWI-leadership? Maybe you just dismissed it as going by your five senses, worldly logic or it's your old man nature rearing it's ugly head. could that have been intuition? could that have been the Spirit of truth trying to warn you about something? Imagine making a habit of that. I tend to think if we ignore our feelings, intuition, common sense we will become numb to a lot of things - and probably impair our critical and creative thinking skills too.

...there's so many inconsistencies when you look at all of wierwille's teachings as a whole like in systematic theology....so many folks who really got into Advanced Class material hit me as know-it-alls and they probably assumed what wierwille taught was unassailable. 

If memory serves me right, John L. said reading The Word is written revelation and helps grease the pipeline for direct revelation...not sure if there's anything to that but it does make me wonder if there's  adverse effects if one misinterpreted or misapplied Scripture – would it clog the pipeline? And maybe a pipeline is a bad analogy – because that's a long pipe for conveying oil, gas, etc. (or figuratively like information or revelation) over long distances...in  John 14       Jesus talked about a much more immediate “connection” :

15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, (Advocate or Counselor) to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. .. ...25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.  

No pipeline needed. The Holy Spirit.. the Helper... the Advocate... the Counselor is not far away - and not just in close proximity -  Jesus said the Holy Spirit is in you.

 

For me another red flag of error is the great principle – which exemplifies wierwille's dogmatic approach to understanding how God works. wierwille's great principle – if I remember it correctly - stated God who is spirit teaches his creation in you which is now your spirit and your spirit teaches your mind...yada yada yada...the basic assumption of wierwille's great principle is that God is spirit and can only speak to what he is – which is spirit.

Yet I can think of instances in the Old & New Testament that shoots holes in wierwille's dogmatism as far as how God can communicate to anyone – be it phenomena, dreams or whatever...For instance in   Numbers 22        stubborn Balaam is beating up on his poor donkey which refuses to move ahead because it sees the angel with a drawn sword standing in the middle of the road – but dumba$$ Balaam doesn't see the angel:

28 Then the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?” 29 And Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you have made a fool of me. I wish I had a sword in my hand, for then I would kill you.” 30 And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?” And he said, “No.” 31 Then the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, with his drawn sword in his hand. 

...Did God have to create spirit in the donkey? What did God do to open the mouth of the donkey? I don't know. What does it matter? Why do we have to fixate on explaining how God works?

Think about Daniel interpreting Nebuchadnezzar's   dreams in   Daniel 2      and      Daniel 4    . What I remember from the Advanced Class was how wierwille focused on Daniel's supernatural ability to interpret the dreams. What fascinates me more now is that God communicated the original messages to  Nebuchadnezzar in dreams. Did God have to create spirit in  Nebuchadnezzar in order to influence his dreams? I don't think so...

...Psychologists , neurologists and all kinds of experts continue to explore how the human mind works – there's still so much they don't know...and yet wierwille came across as so definitive in teaching how God and things of the spirit work. 

 

is it my imagination or did wierwille try his best to make God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures inaccessible – and that the only approach to them was through wierwille.

Edited July 22, 2021 by T-Bone
wish I knew the keys to editing by the spirit

[Bolshevik]

Overthinking is a quick way to get depressed.   . . . so constantly be internally looking for ways God may or  may not be talking to you . . . and constantly remind yourself there's no condemnation it's not working . . . you meathead.

VPW (as an NPD) needed others to reflect back his image.  His reality was a projection of a projection.  Love-bombing sprinkled with threats is a tactic to get compliant mirrors.  He can only project that which he isn't.  

It sounds, T-bone, like you're describing wiping a canvas clean to paint a new picture, in going from PFAL to the Advanced Class.

The verses you quote mention eyes and seeing.  I suspect VPW dissociated a lot . . . from stories I have heard.  It can sometimes be "seen" in their eyes.  The blank out of body stare . . . as if possessed.  I wonder if possession might not mean something has taken over.  It might mean something simply isn't there.

[Oakspear]

That whole "Great Principle" thing made no sense. God can't communicate except to what he is, i.e. spirit? But somehow that spirit that he "created in you" can communicate to your mind?

 

[T-Bone]

1 hour ago, Oakspear said:

That whole "Great Principle" thing made no sense. God can't communicate except to what he is, i.e. spirit? But somehow that spirit that he "created in you" can communicate to your mind?

 

Wow – you made an even finer point showing how wierwille's great principle is self-contradictory! 

I remember wierwille making a big deal about it being Christ in you so that it's Christ behind every cell of your being. “it's Christ's eyes behind your eyes, Christ's brain cells behind your brain cells...” But what you pointed out exposes a big issue. If God who is spirit and inhabits eternity and is omnipresent – permeating everything and everybody – then why wouldn't he be able to communicate directly to us? What is so different about Christ behind every cell of my being and God being behind, in front , sideways, thoroughly and throughly   every cell of my being. I guess being infinite has its limitations    - which makes me think of the Groundhog Day scene where Bill Murray's character declares  I am a god  

Edited July 21, 2021 by T-Bone
It's Clark Kent's editing behind my editing

[Bolshevik]

Did it come from Leonard's Class?  Or Stiles?

Was VPW's purpose for it just copy and paste?

 

 

[Bolshevik]

he changed "gifts" to "gift" if I remember right . . . he had some direction it sounds like I think

Edited July 21, 2021 by Bolshevik
edited post about edited plagiarism

[Bolshevik]

2 hours ago, T-Bone said:

 . . .

is it my imagination or did wierwille try his best to make God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures inaccessible – and that the only approach to them was through wierwille.

I agree with this.  Attention needed to be directed to him, VPW.  He needed narcissistic supply.   

There will be inconsistencies and lies which VPW couldn't acknowledge because he confabulates.  These are often amusing when not destructive, but countless folks went along with it for their own motives, be they benign or selfish.

[skyrider]

EXACTLY......

And further, when you sit back and think about it.....wierwille, in all his narcissistic glory, attempted to become mediator between God and man.  Step aside Jesus Christ and holy spirit......wierwille's got this.  sarc/

[Bolshevik]

4 hours ago, skyrider said:

EXACTLY......

And further, when you sit back and think about it.....wierwille, in all his narcissistic glory, attempted to become mediator between God and man.  Step aside Jesus Christ and holy spirit......wierwille's got this.  sarc/

Well he saw snow on the gas pumps.  Nobody has ever seen anything like that before.  Except everyone.  But HE saw it, so he MUST be the messiah. . . . confirmation biases happen in shared fantasies, too, right?

 

8 hours ago, T-Bone said:

wierwille disparaged intuition and feelings in PFAL but not in the Advanced Class...In PFAL wierwille would go on about how feelings come and go. But in the Advanced Class I remember him relating an incident of knowing what to minister to lady for because his “ovaries hurt”. Now how does that not imply it was a feeling? ...and he would say other warm and fuzzy things like revelation can be first thought...

. . . .
...there's so many inconsistencies when you look at all of wierwille's teachings as a whole like in systematic theology....so many folks who really got into Advanced Class material hit me as know-it-alls and they probably assumed what wierwille taught was unassailable. 

 . . .

 

May I borrow $1000 from you and loan it back to you later and charge interest?  You're welcome.

 

Someone here was pointing this out long ago about Eve and the serpent, (they both had spirit so they could talk to each other), . . . she doubted her own thinking and a new idea was inserted . . . with consequences.

 

That's crazy one class sets up for a later class.  Remove thoughts in one class . . . Sell them back in another class with a new meaning.

 

Seeing the contradictions on paper is humorous . . . but I don't think this medium captures the intensity and persistence.  Logical consistency is unnecessary when pushing a lie.  In fact it's probably the inconsistencies that serve as red herrings while the real agenda is pushed.

Folks with personality disorders don't necessarily plan this, or construct this ahead of time.  They are persistent, have practiced this since they were toddlers, and simply act on impulse.  The rest of us just project how we think everyone else thinks onto them . . . and get disoriented when the results are unexpected.  

[skyrider]

Lest we forget how profound advanced class teachings were......."Cancer is a devil spirit."  Wierwille taught this in his advanced classes.  Wierwille dies of cancer.  Need I say more?

The contradictions, the insanity......of groupthink.

“Insanity in individuals is something rare — but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule.”   Fredrich Nietzsche

[Bolshevik]

2 hours ago, skyrider said:

Lest we forget how profound advanced class teachings were......."Cancer is a devil spirit."  Wierwille taught this in his advanced classes.  Wierwille dies of cancer.  Need I say more?

The contradictions, the insanity......of groupthink.

“Insanity in individuals is something rare — but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule.”   Fredrich Nietzsche

HA!!!

A full blown NPD had no ego, has no self, no identity, does not experience real life . . . they are the true zombies, they are vampires, they are the undead, they are devil spirits, . . . feeding and occupying without contributing . . . like cancer.

To be infected, be bitten, to be smitten, to be moved by an NPD is to join the ranks of the white walkers in the army of the dead.

 

[Oakspear]

Wierwille, after spending the first four sessions of PFAL repeating in various iterations that the Bible is without error, then spends a few sessions pointing out contradictions (or "apparent" contradictions if you will) and then shows you how they're not really contradictions...here's what it really says, what it really means, building up his own street cred as someone who can uncover the truth when every denomination in history got it wrong. That was the real purpose of PFAL, beneath the veneer of Biblical research that any Joe Schmoe could do was the idea that it was Wierwille who's conclusions should be trusted without question. If anyone questioned Wierwille's conclusions they were strongly encouraged to "hold it in abeyance", since obviously you were missing something if your conclusions were different than Wierwille's. Which was why things that made no sense, even within the context of "research" that Wierwille pushed, were accepted, at least provisionally. Things like "The Great Principle", or the idea that the original sin of Adam & Eve was masturbation, or the thundering herd of grammatical errors and leaps of illogic that filled so much of his "teaching"

[Bolshevik]

28 minutes ago, Oakspear said:

 . . . That was the real purpose of PFAL, beneath the veneer of Biblical research that any Joe Schmoe could do was the idea that it was Wierwille who's conclusions should be trusted without question. . . . 

 

Quote

“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

 

The NPD needs people to enter the shared fantasy.  There the NPD can extract his parasitic needs and desires . . . get supply. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Bolshevik
fantasy spilled into reality . . . or the other way around . . unsure

[Bolshevik]

PFAL, the Advanced Class, the total TWI "belief system" is chaos.  It's complete chaos.

 

The orderly homes for TWIGS and the perfectly cut grass and the feigned smiles gives the illusion that something or someone is in control.

 

1 Corinthians 14:40 my foot.

 

The value system should have been in order first, not the façade.  

[T-Bone]

2 hours ago, Oakspear said:

Wierwille, after spending the first four sessions of PFAL repeating in various iterations that the Bible is without error, then spends a few sessions pointing out contradictions (or "apparent" contradictions if you will) and then shows you how they're not really contradictions...here's what it really says, what it really means, building up his own street cred as someone who can uncover the truth when every denomination in history got it wrong. That was the real purpose of PFAL, beneath the veneer of Biblical research that any Joe Schmoe could do was the idea that it was Wierwille who's conclusions should be trusted without question. If anyone questioned Wierwille's conclusions they were strongly encouraged to "hold it in abeyance", since obviously you were missing something if your conclusions were different than Wierwille's. Which was why things that made no sense, even within the context of "research" that Wierwille pushed, were accepted, at least provisionally. Things like "The Great Principle", or the idea that the original sin of Adam & Eve was masturbation, or the thundering herd of grammatical errors and leaps of illogic that filled so much of his "teaching"

 

If there's one thing wierwille was consistent about it was being contradictory...I think this was at the live  Advanced Class 79  - but it could have been the live PFAL 77 class – can't remember which one – but I do remember wierwille talking about “working The Word” and after mentioning Bullinger in passing he says something like “you can squeeze The Word so hard you'll have error running out your fingers”...even back then it struck me as such an odd thing to say that I never forgot it..and now I find it even more amusing – here's wierwille who plagiarized Bullinger's work like crazy is attempting to cut him down to size when actually wierwille's ego needed to be deflated since he was full of hot air.   

but seriously here's another instance of wierwille saying only he can be trusted to work the word correctly.

[Bolshevik]

Wierwille's ego couldn't be deflated because he had no ego.  The grandiousity is a salve to the pain of that reality.

[Bolshevik]

That would lead to The Law Believing.

For VPW as an NPD it was his magical thinking . . . he did it to survive

For the "neurotypical" it was ego inflation . . . to get through perceived or real hard times.

All training to be more like him, his image, what he want to be seen as.  NEEDS to be . . . just to get it parrellel. 

[waysider]

10 hours ago, skyrider said:

Lest we forget how profound advanced class teachings were......."Cancer is a devil spirit."  Wierwille taught this in his advanced classes.  Wierwille dies of cancer.  Need I say more?

Lots of others did, as well, such as Uncle( He wasn't MY uncle.) Harry, Don, Les G. and others. But, the real problem, as I see it, was this:

A.) We were following a man who was possessed.

OR

B.) He was wrong about this and, therefore, could have been wrong about anything and everything else.

 

I personally think the second choice is more damning than the first.

 

[Bolshevik]

Your first option conveys the idea he did not love himself and thought even less of you.  

 

I think it was in the WAP class LCM drove home that being right comes before loving the person.  

[Rocky]

43 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

I think it was in the WAP class LCM drove home that being right comes before loving the person.  

I never took the WAP class (even though as a child in upstate NY, of Italian descent, I was called a WAP numerous times)...

But he didn't need to drive that concept home. It was ingrained in the DNA of the cult from before I joined up in 1974.

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, waysider said:

B.) He was wrong about this and, therefore, could have been wrong about anything and everything else.

Clearly this was the case, IMO.

[Bolshevik]

19 minutes ago, Rocky said:

. . .

But he didn't need to drive that concept home. It was ingrained in the DNA of the cult from before I joined up in 1974.

Of course it was.  LCM chose what to highlight it as many others did.

"Save the person then love the person"  I think was one way to say it.

Love-bombing was diminished and the threats were increased.  Obviously misapplying older tactics.  

When joining a cult a person is choosing to be hated.

[WordWolf]

Anyone notice that "The Great Principle"  was based on something that CHANGED?

"God is Spirit, and God can only give what He is- which is Spirit."

"God is Spirit, and God can only communicate with Spirit."

 

Wherever he plagiarized those from, it's obvious he didn't UNDERSTAND them since they contradict so obviously when he phrases them.    "God gave manna. God is NOT manna."     So, the first statement is BLATANTLY wrong.

If the second is supposedly true because spirit only communicates with spirit, then eventually there is a disconnect. 

"God, who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit, and your spirit teaches your mind. Then it becomes manifested in the senses world as you act."   

Well, how did my spirit teach my mind?  Spirit communicated with not-spirit there. Is my spirit more capable than God Almighty, who IS Spirit?

[T-Bone]

1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

Anyone notice that "The Great Principle"  was based on something that CHANGED?

"God is Spirit, and God can only give what He is- which is Spirit."

"God is Spirit, and God can only communicate with Spirit."

 

Wherever he plagiarized those from, it's obvious he didn't UNDERSTAND them since they contradict so obviously when he phrases them.    "God gave manna. God is NOT manna."     So, the first statement is BLATANTLY wrong.

If the second is supposedly true because spirit only communicates with spirit, then eventually there is a disconnect. 

"God, who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit, and your spirit teaches your mind. Then it becomes manifested in the senses world as you act."   

Well, how did my spirit teach my mind?  Spirit communicated with not-spirit there. Is my spirit more capable than God Almighty, who IS Spirit?

         great job,  WordWolf  !!!!

 

What a difference reviewing the material from PFAL and  the Advanced Class on Grease Spot compared to how TWI-followers    reviewed    regurgitated class material...here Grease Spotters actually analyze stuff instead of mindlessly absorbing and parroting class material.

Edited July 23, 2021 by T-Bone
typos and formatting