I have been thinking a lot about how we learn how to show love to others. In TWI we learned a specific brand of love. First, through love-bombing (constant attention, super close friends, praise, etc.), and then through the withholding of that attention and praise to straight-up condemnation, ostracization, and public shaming. And all that negative side of this was also branded as "LOVE" ...
They made God into VPW's own image - an abusive Father. And if God is Love... then in order to be godly, we must be the same way.
I hurt a lot of people because I "loved" them. I cut my own family out of my life BECAUSE I LOVED THEM. I told LGBTQ friends that they were possessed by devil spirits BECAUSE I LOVED THEM. I helped tear good men and women down in confrontation sessions over a leader's "spiritual suspicion" BECAUSE I LOVED THEM. I saw children beaten with wooden spoons BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS LOVED THEM. I saw my brother thrown out on the street at 16 years old BECAUSE MY PARENTS LOVED HIM.
So many abuses in the name of God and love.
TWI's version of love is twisted to only serve them. It bears no resemblance to I Corinthians 13:1 (PATIENT, KIND, DOES NOT ENVY, DOES NOT BOAST, IS NOT PROUD, NOT RUDE, NOT SELF SEEKING, NOT EASILY ANGERED, KEEPS NO RECORD OF WRONGS. DOES NOT DELIGHT IT EVIL, BUT REJOICES WITH THE TRUTH.)
I think I could find an opposite of each of these characteristics of love within TWI's definition.
on a side note - wierwille had a multipurpose use for I Cor. 13:5 "love…thinketh no evil” and often referred to that “principle” in other teachings – the subtext usually was a way to insulate him from close scrutiny and suspicions or rationalized his licentious behavior…These underlying themes were meant to keep in check any way corps’ observations about his lifestyle and to deem that anything done in the love of God is okay...after all you shouldn't think evil of the man of god and besides that he was so spiritually mature that he could handle anything, right?
There is a place for "tough love" and sometimes it can be loving to leave someone to take the consequences of wrong actions. BUT in TWI it was constant "tough love," constant "vigilance" for "spiritual errors" in the fantasy world that was HQ.
Doncha love the way that you could get a face-melting from - well, I got several from LCM, who was a master at it (the manipulative b@st@rd) - and then, shortly afterwards, you'd get a visit from a Corps bro or sis, who was sent lovingly to see that you were all right. In reality, I think this checker-upper person was probably a spy to see that you weren't "harbouring a grudge" or preparing to do anything that might reflect badly on TWI, like mouthing off to other Corps members or to friends and family.
TWI was very keen on spying on the in-rez Corps. Just keeping a spiritual check on them, no doubt they'd say. No. Frikkin' spying.
There is a place for "tough love" and sometimes it can be loving to leave someone to take the consequences of wrong actions. BUT in TWI it was constant "tough love," constant "vigilance" for "spiritual errors" in the fantasy world that was HQ.
Doncha love the way that you could get a face-melting from - well, I got several from LCM, who was a master at it (the manipulative b@st@rd) - and then, shortly afterwards, you'd get a visit from a Corps bro or sis, who was sent lovingly to see that you were all right. In reality, I think this checker-upper person was probably a spy to see that you weren't "harbouring a grudge" or preparing to do anything that might reflect badly on TWI, like mouthing off to other Corps members or to friends and family.
TWI was very keen on spying on the in-rez Corps. Just keeping a spiritual check on them, no doubt they'd say. No. Frikkin' spying.
Do you remember veepee introducing the concept in PFLAP that the label on the can may say one thing, but inside the can is something else?
This IS it. Twi consciously taught abusiveness as a culture. Undershepherding developed abusers. Ultimately for me, it (I) caused my post-twi marriage to fail because of it.
They also harped on "phileo" v "agape". Agape being superior, spiritual not emotional. Emotional attachment was earthly and inferior. "I have no friends when it comes to the word.""
They also harped on "phileo" v "agape". Agape being superior, spiritual not emotional. Emotional attachment was earthly and inferior. "I have no friends when it comes to the word.""
1 hour ago, JavaJane said:
And then there was the idea that "any two believers" can make a marriage work... I HATED THAT. I saw so many badly mismatched couples because of this.
Your posts made me think of an old definition that I haven’t thought of in a long time – “the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation”…besides sounding so wordy and clinical (impersonal) it revolves around the “renewed mind”. You say your marriage isn’t working?Just renew your mind... ...I think that tended to put the kibosh on communicating our true feelings and needs in an honest and respectful way…I’m no expert on relationships but I’ve found that trying to be emotionally transparent takes work and courage (especially to undo old mental habits); it does make you vulnerable – but it also promotes trust and closeness in a relationship.
trying to be emotionally transparent takes work and courage (especially to undo old mental habits); it does make you vulnerable – but it also promotes trust and closeness in a relationship.
That's it exactly, T-Bone. Having worked as a matrimonial lawyer for some years (not my fave bit of law) - I have to say that the no.1 reason for marriage breakdown is lack of communication between the parties. Not being able to say how you feel/think/want about something (whether nice or a potential difficulty) and/or not listening when your spouse tries to talk to you. Parties need to say honestly what they want to say and not leave it to the other person to guess/mind read/know by intuition or revelation; and the listener needs to listen and hear what's said, not just the words used.
On "The Marriage Course" I think it's said that if you have a row with your spouse, do it holding hands. Reminds you that you are tied together and you need to pay attention to the other party.
And then there was the idea that "any two believers" can make a marriage work... I HATED THAT. I saw so many badly mismatched couples because of this.
"Any 2 believers can make a marriage work. It's called 'commitment.' " - lcm
How did the marriages work for those at the top?
vpw- cheated on his wife by molesting, raping, and drugging other women. At his funeral, she said "he was a mean man." May have left his denominational church over being caught with the church secretary.
lcm- Both lcm and donna cheated behind each other's back. donna became interested in lcm as soon as vpw told her lcm was going to be vpw's successor. They became a couple, and then LATER spent some time to get to know each other better.
rfr- Entered divorced, never married anyone while in twi. Had relations with other women, most prominently donna.
So, the people who claimed that it wasn't that hard all seemed to have blown it, one way or another, majorly.
Your posts made me think of an old definition that I haven’t thought of in a long time – “the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation”…besides sounding so wordy and clinical (impersonal) it revolves around the “renewed mind”. You say your marriage isn’t working?Just renew your mind... ...I think that tended to put the kibosh on communicating our true feelings and needs in an honest and respectful way…I’m no expert on relationships but I’ve found that trying to be emotionally transparent takes work and courage (especially to undo old mental habits); it does make you vulnerable – but it also promotes trust and closeness in a relationship.
Verbose, clinical, impersonal, cold, MECHANICAL. The key to everything was in precise steps- which means it was all MECHANICAL. People don't work that way. The best way to have a good friend is to BE a good friend, and that's not impersonal. Marriages are a LOT more personal and intimate (emotionally) than a good friendship.
DOES NOT ENVY Always trying to do one better, esp better than Christian churches
DOES NOT BOAST Knows the WoG as it hasn’t been known since the 1st century
IS NOT PROUD Never does anything wrong
NOT RUDE Foul-mouthed
NOT SELF SEEKING Always self-promoting
NOT EASILY ANGERED Angry at the slightest mistake; sustained slow-burn rage
KEEPS NO RECORD OF WRONGS. Has a file of all sorts of supposed misdemeanours
DOES NOT DELIGHT IT EVIL, Full of “spiritual suspicion”
BUT REJOICES WITH THE TRUTHSlanders its own followers
11 hours ago, WordWolf said:
Verbose, clinical, impersonal, cold, MECHANICAL. The key to everything was in precise steps- which means it was all MECHANICAL. People don't work that way. The best way to have a good friend is to BE a good friend, and that's not impersonal. Marriages are a LOT more personal and intimate (emotionally) than a good friendship.
In his book “On Bull$hit” American philosopher Harry Frankfurt talks about things that are fake, phony or counterfeit. They may even appear genuine in many respects – but what is fundamentally wrong in every case is not what they are like or appear to be, but how they are made.
The counterfeit has no real value except to those who pass it off to defraud another of something that is of real value – e.g. buying a genuine Rolex watch with counterfeit money or selling a fake art piece to the highest bidder. It’s telling folks don’t donate or lend support to any charity or good cause - instead they should give their money and support to the best cause - a ministry researching and teaching the great accuracy and integrity of The Word, blah, blah blah…The fake love of TWI is an imitation currency that betrays folks’ trust and cheats them out of their money, any resources, time, and even relationships.
Real love as defined in I Corinthians 13 - is organic – great sustenance for living beings because it is so easily metabolized. Real relationships need real love – a free commerce between hearts of stuff like kindness, patience, humility, understanding, unselfishness, trust, empathy, honesty, forgiveness.
TWI’s fake love is mechanical – machine like – unthinking – unemotional – - manipulative and controlling - artificial and totally self-serving. It tends to gum up the works of how relationships should function naturally. Doesn’t matter if it’s a friend, family or spouse – when it comes to The Word you should have no friends.
…wierwille would often belittle emotions “feelings come and go”. TWI’s fake love is made of the opposite ingredients of real love as Twinky pointed out. And if you ask me – out of all those negative tendencies, the most dominant one is that TWI is always self-promoting to advance its own "glory", growth, interests and prosperity…In case you don’t know (or don’t care ) on Bizarro world ( see Wikipedia - Bizarro world ) - part of their code of conduct states "Us do opposite of all Earthly things!” (that’s right - when people from Bizarro talk, their speech-pattern is kin to that of Cro-Magnons )…wait - - do you think I’m going for some goofy comparison with TWI? Don’t be ridiculous! I’m telling you straight up that secret agents from the planet Bizarro have already infiltrated TWI and are intent on TWI-world domination – tricking folks into doing the opposite of what the Bible says to do – oh the inhumanity of it all! Run for the hills! E.T. phone home! It's a close encounter of the turd kind.
If you could see a graph of the percentage of fake love as opposed to real love that characterized my life during TWI-involvement I think it might indicate the fake stuff was prevalent for most of my stint. Managing relationships was cut and dry. The other person is either doing The Word or they’re off The Word - and their status would determine how much time I would invest in that relationship . And if they question my involvement with TWI or challenge my beliefs they might be under devilish influence, possessed or wrong seed. During the early 70s when I was in art school (and before TWI) I had a pretty much live-and-let-live outlook toward others. But oh how things change when you join a cult. Things become polarized. The line drawn in the sand becomes more and more pronounced as far as what type of people are acceptable according to TWI's standards - why it's devoted followers of TWI of course!
I can still remember the first few months after I took PFAL – how excited I was – how generous I felt toward anyone I met – I wanted to give them “The Word”. I felt "The Word" was the best way to help them no matter what the problem was. My Twig coordinator got wind of me always sharing things I learned in the class with friends from school. He had to talk to me several times to try and convince me that I shouldn’t just give away all the info from the class – no one will want to pay for the class if you give it all to them for free...oh pardon me if I didn't realize the commercial aspect of "moving The Word".
...Later on, in the way corps I had the 80/20 rule drummed into my head – spend 80 percent of my time with the 20 percent of the people who really want to do The Word…which translated from original way-speak means spend most of your time with people who are willing to do whatever TWI wants them to do...Ultimately I think this mindset even prioritized the agenda of TWI over and far above friends, family and spouse...how many friendships, families, relationships, and marriages were destroyed because the person was pressured to choose "The Word" over all else?
The day I left TWI was the start of something life-affirming…heart-expanding…and truly humbling…realizing I was no better than anyone else…seeing people as wonderful individual human beings.
They also harped on "phileo" v "agape". Agape being superior, spiritual not emotional. Emotional attachment was earthly and inferior. "I have no friends when it comes to the word.""
If I remember correctly virtually all occurrences of "love" in the NT are translations of agape and it is used in various contexts, not limited to "the love of God". I remember many teachings where the teacher would come across the word "love" and breathlessly announce "and it's the word agape" as if it were soehow unique
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T-Bone
on a side note - wierwille had a multipurpose use for I Cor. 13:5 "love…thinketh no evil” and often referred to that “principle” in other teachings – the subtext usually was a way to insulate him from close scrutiny and suspicions or rationalized his licentious behavior…These underlying themes were meant to keep in check any way corps’ observations about his lifestyle and to deem that anything done in the love of God is okay...after all you shouldn't think evil of the man of god and besides that he was so spiritually mature that he could handle anything, right?
Edited by T-Boneadd emoticon and formatting
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Twinky
PATIENT Quick to find fault
KIND Aggressive
DOES NOT ENVY Always trying to do one better, esp better than Christian churches
DOES NOT BOAST Knows the WoG as it hasn’t been known since the 1st century
IS NOT PROUD Never does anything wrong
NOT RUDE Foul-mouthed
NOT SELF SEEKING Always self-promoting
NOT EASILY ANGERED Angry at the slightest mistake; sustained slow-burn rage
KEEPS NO RECORD OF WRONGS. Has a file of all sorts of supposed misdemeanours
DOES NOT DELIGHT IT EVIL, Full of “spiritual suspicion”
BUT REJOICES WITH THE TRUTH Slanders its own followers
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Twinky
It's an interesting point you raise, JJ.
There is a place for "tough love" and sometimes it can be loving to leave someone to take the consequences of wrong actions. BUT in TWI it was constant "tough love," constant "vigilance" for "spiritual errors" in the fantasy world that was HQ.
Doncha love the way that you could get a face-melting from - well, I got several from LCM, who was a master at it (the manipulative b@st@rd) - and then, shortly afterwards, you'd get a visit from a Corps bro or sis, who was sent lovingly to see that you were all right. In reality, I think this checker-upper person was probably a spy to see that you weren't "harbouring a grudge" or preparing to do anything that might reflect badly on TWI, like mouthing off to other Corps members or to friends and family.
TWI was very keen on spying on the in-rez Corps. Just keeping a spiritual check on them, no doubt they'd say. No. Frikkin' spying.
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Rocky
Do you remember veepee introducing the concept in PFLAP that the label on the can may say one thing, but inside the can is something else?
This IS it. Twi consciously taught abusiveness as a culture. Undershepherding developed abusers. Ultimately for me, it (I) caused my post-twi marriage to fail because of it.
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JavaJane
YES!!!
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Bolshevik
But, Love IS obedience, right?
https://psychcentral.com/lib/can-a-narcissist-love/
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waysider
"We sure do love you."
Well, at least they were honest.
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outandabout
They also harped on "phileo" v "agape". Agape being superior, spiritual not emotional. Emotional attachment was earthly and inferior. "I have no friends when it comes to the word.""
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JavaJane
And then there was the idea that "any two believers" can make a marriage work... I HATED THAT. I saw so many badly mismatched couples because of this.
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T-Bone
Your posts made me think of an old definition that I haven’t thought of in a long time – “the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation”…besides sounding so wordy and clinical (impersonal) it revolves around the “renewed mind”. You say your marriage isn’t working? Just renew your mind... ...I think that tended to put the kibosh on communicating our true feelings and needs in an honest and respectful way…I’m no expert on relationships but I’ve found that trying to be emotionally transparent takes work and courage (especially to undo old mental habits); it does make you vulnerable – but it also promotes trust and closeness in a relationship.
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Twinky
That's it exactly, T-Bone. Having worked as a matrimonial lawyer for some years (not my fave bit of law) - I have to say that the no.1 reason for marriage breakdown is lack of communication between the parties. Not being able to say how you feel/think/want about something (whether nice or a potential difficulty) and/or not listening when your spouse tries to talk to you. Parties need to say honestly what they want to say and not leave it to the other person to guess/mind read/know by intuition or revelation; and the listener needs to listen and hear what's said, not just the words used.
On "The Marriage Course" I think it's said that if you have a row with your spouse, do it holding hands. Reminds you that you are tied together and you need to pay attention to the other party.
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Allan
I think their love was summed up in one of their sayings that got thrown around in-rez..."You're the breast, rub ya".....
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WordWolf
"Any 2 believers can make a marriage work. It's called 'commitment.' " - lcm
How did the marriages work for those at the top?
vpw- cheated on his wife by molesting, raping, and drugging other women. At his funeral, she said "he was a mean man." May have left his denominational church over being caught with the church secretary.
lcm- Both lcm and donna cheated behind each other's back. donna became interested in lcm as soon as vpw told her lcm was going to be vpw's successor. They became a couple, and then LATER spent some time to get to know each other better.
rfr- Entered divorced, never married anyone while in twi. Had relations with other women, most prominently donna.
So, the people who claimed that it wasn't that hard all seemed to have blown it, one way or another, majorly.
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WordWolf
Verbose, clinical, impersonal, cold, MECHANICAL. The key to everything was in precise steps- which means it was all MECHANICAL. People don't work that way. The best way to have a good friend is to BE a good friend, and that's not impersonal. Marriages are a LOT more personal and intimate (emotionally) than a good friendship.
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T-Bone
In his book “On Bull$hit” American philosopher Harry Frankfurt talks about things that are fake, phony or counterfeit. They may even appear genuine in many respects – but what is fundamentally wrong in every case is not what they are like or appear to be, but how they are made.
The counterfeit has no real value except to those who pass it off to defraud another of something that is of real value – e.g. buying a genuine Rolex watch with counterfeit money or selling a fake art piece to the highest bidder. It’s telling folks don’t donate or lend support to any charity or good cause - instead they should give their money and support to the best cause - a ministry researching and teaching the great accuracy and integrity of The Word, blah, blah blah…The fake love of TWI is an imitation currency that betrays folks’ trust and cheats them out of their money, any resources, time, and even relationships.
Real love as defined in I Corinthians 13 - is organic – great sustenance for living beings because it is so easily metabolized. Real relationships need real love – a free commerce between hearts of stuff like kindness, patience, humility, understanding, unselfishness, trust, empathy, honesty, forgiveness.
TWI’s fake love is mechanical – machine like – unthinking – unemotional – - manipulative and controlling - artificial and totally self-serving. It tends to gum up the works of how relationships should function naturally. Doesn’t matter if it’s a friend, family or spouse – when it comes to The Word you should have no friends.
…wierwille would often belittle emotions “feelings come and go”. TWI’s fake love is made of the opposite ingredients of real love as Twinky pointed out. And if you ask me – out of all those negative tendencies, the most dominant one is that TWI is always self-promoting to advance its own "glory", growth, interests and prosperity…In case you don’t know (or don’t care
) on Bizarro world ( see Wikipedia - Bizarro world ) - part of their code of conduct states "Us do opposite of all Earthly things!” (that’s right - when people from Bizarro talk, their speech-pattern is kin to that of Cro-Magnons 
)…wait - - do you think I’m going for some goofy comparison with TWI? Don’t be ridiculous! I’m telling you straight up that secret agents from the planet Bizarro have already infiltrated TWI and are intent on TWI-world domination – tricking folks into doing the opposite of what the Bible says to do 
– oh the inhumanity of it all! Run for the hills! E.T. phone home! It's a close encounter of the turd kind.
If you could see a graph of the percentage of fake love as opposed to real love that characterized my life during TWI-involvement I think it might indicate the fake stuff was prevalent for most of my stint. Managing relationships was cut and dry. The other person is either doing The Word or they’re off The Word - and their status would determine how much time I would invest in that relationship . And if they question my involvement with TWI or challenge my beliefs they might be under devilish influence, possessed or wrong seed. During the early 70s when I was in art school (and before TWI) I had a pretty much live-and-let-live outlook toward others. But oh how things change when you join a cult. Things become polarized. The line drawn in the sand becomes more and more pronounced as far as what type of people are acceptable according to TWI's standards - why it's devoted followers of TWI of course!
I can still remember the first few months after I took PFAL – how excited I was – how generous I felt toward anyone I met – I wanted to give them “The Word”. I felt "The Word" was the best way to help them no matter what the problem was. My Twig coordinator got wind of me always sharing things I learned in the class with friends from school. He had to talk to me several times to try and convince me that I shouldn’t just give away all the info from the class – no one will want to pay for the class if you give it all to them for free...oh pardon me if I didn't realize the commercial aspect of "moving The Word".
...Later on, in the way corps I had the 80/20 rule drummed into my head – spend 80 percent of my time with the 20 percent of the people who really want to do The Word…which translated from original way-speak means spend most of your time with people who are willing to do whatever TWI wants them to do...Ultimately I think this mindset even prioritized the agenda of TWI over and far above friends, family and spouse...how many friendships, families, relationships, and marriages were destroyed because the person was pressured to choose "The Word" over all else?
The day I left TWI was the start of something life-affirming…heart-expanding…and truly humbling…realizing I was no better than anyone else…seeing people as wonderful individual human beings.
Edited by T-Boneformatting and typos
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Rocky
One of my favorite books. My favorite word.
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Oakspear
If I remember correctly virtually all occurrences of "love" in the NT are translations of agape and it is used in various contexts, not limited to "the love of God". I remember many teachings where the teacher would come across the word "love" and breathlessly announce "and it's the word agape" as if it were soehow unique
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