Interesting, isn't it, that the "ministry" roundly condemns those who walk away, who "don't stand" with TWI. Such people are roundly vilified, slandered, mocked.
Jesus laid out the living word for many, many, people. Some chose to follow him and cling to his teachings. Some hung around for a while and then fell away. How much condemnation is heaped on them? How did Jesus vilify them and slander their names? I missed that bit in my Bible.
And Paul (revered by TWI). How many walked away from him? Quite a few, who are actually mentioned. But how many are vilified? Only those who have actively walked away and are working against him. Those individuals, or some of them, are named. But not most.
So, "ministry is the word" (cough) - learn from those examples. Maybe TWI have stopped that behaviour. Maybe it's just gone even more private. But of a certainty, they haven't apologised to those they've slandered, either individually or as a group (by, eg, apologising on public sites like this and the various Facebook groups).
Interesting, isn't it, that the "ministry" roundly condemns those who walk away, who "don't stand" with TWI. Such people are roundly vilified, slandered, mocked.
Jesus laid out the living word for many, many, people. Some chose to follow him and cling to his teachings. Some hung around for a while and then fell away. How much condemnation is heaped on them? How did Jesus vilify them and slander their names? I missed that bit in my Bible.
And Paul (revered by TWI). How many walked away from him? Quite a few, who are actually mentioned. But how many are vilified? Only those who have actively walked away and are working against him. Those individuals, or some of them, are named. But not most.
So, "ministry is the word" (cough) - learn from those examples. Maybe TWI have stopped that behaviour. Maybe it's just gone even more private. But of a certainty, they haven't apologised to those they've slandered, either individually or as a group (by, eg, apologising on public sites like this and the various Facebook groups).
If Paul could have lived long enough, he could have taken the advanced class to learn that slandering those opposed to idolatry and rape is only a problem if you BELEEEVE it is.
In this verse, Paul is describing victor with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision not known since...well, since Paul wrote it...
I guess Paul didn't know any saints who were sinners. (That cop out must have come in a later dispensation.) Paul said don't even eat with people like victor. Don't even eat with such people! Just tremendous accuracy.
1 Corinthians 5:11 (NIV)
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
Oh brother…now I’ve got a decision to make…do I follow what Paul said - or do I follow wierwille’s example?
hmmmm decisions, decisions…
Maybe I’ll ask the pendant…yes…no…yes…
oh wait - can I use the pendant for either / or questions?
Oh brother…now I’ve got a decision to make…do I follow what Paul said - or do I follow wierwille’s example?
hmmmm decisions, decisions…
Maybe I’ll ask the pendant…yes…no…yes…
oh wait - can I use the pendant for either / or questions?
If you want to eat anywhere near victor, but you want to follow Paul, just cross out the verse. Just cross it out. It wasn't in the original. None that I've ever seen, and I've been to Germany. Plus, it just doesn't make sense the way it interprets itself.
Anyway, like Bullinger and his Trinity, Paul wasn't accurate about EVERYTHING. If Paul could have believed big enough to live long enough, he would have seen how much fun slander and greed and drunkenness and rape and swindling could be.
If you want to eat anywhere near victor, but you want to follow Paul, just cross out the verse. Just cross it out. It wasn't in the original. None that I've ever seen, and I've been to Germany. Plus, it just doesn't make sense the way it interprets itself.
Anyway, like Bullinger and his Trinity, Paul wasn't accurate about EVERYTHING. If Paul could have believed big enough to live long enough, he would have seen how much fun slander and greed and drunkenness and rape and swindling could be.
Time and time again, the vpw-apologists take the stance that vpw's"doctrine"(i.e.pfal class) stands alone and should be exclusively embraced WITHOUT vpw'smanner of lifeas an issue.
BUT........when I read the Scriptures I find that this incongruous acceptance is UNACCEPTABLE in God's eyes. Without delving into the countless issues of things like 1) hypocrits, 2) deceivers, 3) seducers, 4) wolves in sheeps' clothing, 5) know them by their fruit, 6) leaven overtaking the whole lump, etc....I would like to make note of the following Scripture:
I Timothy 3: 10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity patience...
Interesting how the apostle Paul's doctrine AND manner of life AND purpose AND faith AND longsuffering AND charity AND patience were [past tense] FULLY KNOWN by disciples and followers. Paul lived his lifein open viewfor all to see. How many times do we see where THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE POWER OF GOD superceded any eloquent words of man?
IMO,doctrineandmanner of lifeare the "hammer and the anvil" that STRIKE FORCEFULLY against the adversary's realm to impact his evil kingdom. And, when a true minister lives blameless and upright in "the zone of godliness and true righteousness" THEN he/she is worthy of double honor. Then, he is a strong vessel fit for the Master's use.
Jesus Christ was the perfect sacrifice, for all of mankind. He was THE MAN FOR ALL TIME, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God [Heb.10:12]. And, He was the new and living way that made my heart soar to the heavens and strengthened me to carry on his work of reconciling men and women back to God.
When I read through accounts from threads likeA few big things I learned in PFAL.......where one elevates the man, vpw, and "his doctrine".....I am reminded of the Scriptural references, "...there are contentions among you...Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."Those of you that basically say, I am of Victor Paul Wierwille......aren't you DISSING aspects of pfal by your statements of allegiance?
Yeah......I learned some good things in pfal.
Yeah......at the time, I swallowed its whole -- hook, line and sinker. Young and naive and rebellious, I found a group that had a bigger-than-life zeal to "go and grow with God." And, I fully invested years (decades) into teaching and ministering to others in the valleys of life. Little did I realize that wierwille and his cronies were deceivers and being deceived. Clearly, I had no idea that wierwille was raping and drugging and pillaging the hearts and lives of young and innocent twi girls.
BUT WHEN I BECAME A SPIRITUALLY ACUTE MAN.....I discarded much of pfal's indoctrinations that were based on private interpretation and innuendos and cliches and the following of a cult personality. And, what basic truths that I cleave to regarding the pfal class.....many of these truths were Scripturally-based and taught by Rev. BG Leonard, Kenyon, Stiles, and others.
Regardless......this thread is one of highlighting DOCTRINE and the complementary fruit of MANNER OF LIFE.
Seems to me, that God's Holy Writ bonds these TWO ASPECTS in an unbreakable hold to help His people discern good men from evil men, good doings from wrong-filled doings. And therefore......I do not understand how vpw-defenders can separate wierwille from his savage, sexual plundering of many women while at the same time, hold high the pfal class and all they "learned.".....................?????
Does anyone have Vern Edwards' email or phone? I think he may be in New York state. I think Bill Greene might be in Atlanta of even Orlando. Linked in is no help.
Does anyone have Vern Edwards' email or phone? I think he may be in New York state. I think Bill Greene might be in Atlanta of even Orlando. Linked in is no help.
Perhaps I am wrong, but don't directors live at HQ? or did that change? Rosalie said in a cabinet meeting many moons ago that they would likely lif the requirement for directors to live at HQ but I am out of the loop.
Does anyone have Vern Edwards' email or phone? I think he may be in New York state. I think Bill Greene might be in Atlanta of even Orlando. Linked in is no help.
Don't know how accurate this is but I googled him and he once lived in Baldwinsville NY but now he's listed as living in New Knoxville.
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penworks
As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Neverthele
JavaJane
Been there and done that. It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online. And then a couple years after that before I realized God was
skyrider
Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980?
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Twinky
Interesting, isn't it, that the "ministry" roundly condemns those who walk away, who "don't stand" with TWI. Such people are roundly vilified, slandered, mocked.
Jesus laid out the living word for many, many, people. Some chose to follow him and cling to his teachings. Some hung around for a while and then fell away. How much condemnation is heaped on them? How did Jesus vilify them and slander their names? I missed that bit in my Bible.
And Paul (revered by TWI). How many walked away from him? Quite a few, who are actually mentioned. But how many are vilified? Only those who have actively walked away and are working against him. Those individuals, or some of them, are named. But not most.
So, "ministry is the word" (cough) - learn from those examples. Maybe TWI have stopped that behaviour. Maybe it's just gone even more private. But of a certainty, they haven't apologised to those they've slandered, either individually or as a group (by, eg, apologising on public sites like this and the various Facebook groups).
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Nathan_Jr
If Paul could have lived long enough, he could have taken the advanced class to learn that slandering those opposed to idolatry and rape is only a problem if you BELEEEVE it is.
In this verse, Paul is describing victor with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision not known since...well, since Paul wrote it...
I guess Paul didn't know any saints who were sinners. (That cop out must have come in a later dispensation.) Paul said don't even eat with people like victor. Don't even eat with such people! Just tremendous accuracy.
1 Corinthians 5:11 (NIV)
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloved hands
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T-Bone
Oh brother…now I’ve got a decision to make…do I follow what Paul said - or do I follow wierwille’s example?
hmmmm decisions, decisions…
Maybe I’ll ask the pendant…yes…no…yes…
oh wait - can I use the pendant for either / or questions?
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Nathan_Jr
If you want to eat anywhere near victor, but you want to follow Paul, just cross out the verse. Just cross it out. It wasn't in the original. None that I've ever seen, and I've been to Germany. Plus, it just doesn't make sense the way it interprets itself.
Anyway, like Bullinger and his Trinity, Paul wasn't accurate about EVERYTHING. If Paul could have believed big enough to live long enough, he would have seen how much fun slander and greed and drunkenness and rape and swindling could be.
Edited by Nathan_JrMmmmm.... gloves
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skyrider
Time and time again, the vpw-apologists take the stance that vpw's "doctrine" (i.e. pfal class) stands alone and should be exclusively embraced WITHOUT vpw's manner of life as an issue.
BUT........when I read the Scriptures I find that this incongruous acceptance is UNACCEPTABLE in God's eyes. Without delving into the countless issues of things like 1) hypocrits, 2) deceivers, 3) seducers, 4) wolves in sheeps' clothing, 5) know them by their fruit, 6) leaven overtaking the whole lump, etc....I would like to make note of the following Scripture:
I Timothy 3: 10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity patience...
Interesting how the apostle Paul's doctrine AND manner of life AND purpose AND faith AND longsuffering AND charity AND patience were [past tense] FULLY KNOWN by disciples and followers. Paul lived his life in open view for all to see. How many times do we see where THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE POWER OF GOD superceded any eloquent words of man?
IMO, doctrine and manner of life are the "hammer and the anvil" that STRIKE FORCEFULLY against the adversary's realm to impact his evil kingdom. And, when a true minister lives blameless and upright in "the zone of godliness and true righteousness" THEN he/she is worthy of double honor. Then, he is a strong vessel fit for the Master's use.
Jesus Christ was the perfect sacrifice, for all of mankind. He was THE MAN FOR ALL TIME, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God [Heb.10:12]. And, He was the new and living way that made my heart soar to the heavens and strengthened me to carry on his work of reconciling men and women back to God.
When I read through accounts from threads like A few big things I learned in PFAL.......where one elevates the man, vpw, and "his doctrine".....I am reminded of the Scriptural references, "...there are contentions among you...Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ." Those of you that basically say, I am of Victor Paul Wierwille......aren't you DISSING aspects of pfal by your statements of allegiance?
Yeah......I learned some good things in pfal.
Yeah......at the time, I swallowed its whole -- hook, line and sinker. Young and naive and rebellious, I found a group that had a bigger-than-life zeal to "go and grow with God." And, I fully invested years (decades) into teaching and ministering to others in the valleys of life. Little did I realize that wierwille and his cronies were deceivers and being deceived. Clearly, I had no idea that wierwille was raping and drugging and pillaging the hearts and lives of young and innocent twi girls.
BUT WHEN I BECAME A SPIRITUALLY ACUTE MAN.....I discarded much of pfal's indoctrinations that were based on private interpretation and innuendos and cliches and the following of a cult personality. And, what basic truths that I cleave to regarding the pfal class.....many of these truths were Scripturally-based and taught by Rev. BG Leonard, Kenyon, Stiles, and others.
Regardless......this thread is one of highlighting DOCTRINE and the complementary fruit of MANNER OF LIFE.
Seems to me, that God's Holy Writ bonds these TWO ASPECTS in an unbreakable hold to help His people discern good men from evil men, good doings from wrong-filled doings. And therefore......I do not understand how vpw-defenders can separate wierwille from his savage, sexual plundering of many women while at the same time, hold high the pfal class and all they "learned.".....................?????
Thou hast FULLY known my doctrine and MANNER OF LIFE
[Repost of thoughts from 2007.......ring true more today!]
.
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chockfull
Yes they do ring more true today sky. And you are spot on as usual.
The Ways doctrine is plagiarized, stolen, the work product of immoral acts.
The Ways manner is cheap dictatorship.
This is about as far as you can get from a genuine minister and ministry. But they are going to run on the rails that brought them there.
A nostalgia ministry founded on stealing, lying, and attacking one another for position.
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Gary R. Anderson
Does anyone have Vern Edwards' email or phone? I think he may be in New York state. I think Bill Greene might be in Atlanta of even Orlando. Linked in is no help.
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OldSkool
Perhaps I am wrong, but don't directors live at HQ? or did that change? Rosalie said in a cabinet meeting many moons ago that they would likely lif the requirement for directors to live at HQ but I am out of the loop.
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chockfull
Did you try calling the number tattooed in invisible ink on all our lower lips?
Just kidding btw
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oldiesman
Don't know how accurate this is but I googled him and he once lived in Baldwinsville NY but now he's listed as living in New Knoxville.
(15) Vern Edwards | LinkedIn
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OldSkool
No...my black light bulb went out...
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chockfull
Ok I’ve got something for Vern.
Hey bro melt down the golden calf image of VPW on your desk and in the lobby of your teaching center.
It is in the very least clouding your judgement.
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