How else could it be but a downward spiral fading into obscurity and death? Rebuild what? Rebuildon what? The 1942 promise? The foundation of the entire enterprise from the very beginning is based on lies. All of it.
Let them repent. Let them address their sins. Let them get honest. Then what?
BUT let them WAKE UP to Truth. Let them truly get born again. Let them find out what that means. Only then will they be free to see that there is nothing to rebuild. All that will be left to do is fold.
Until then, blindness, folly, death.
*Thank you for every word you've ever written here, Skyrider.
EXACTLY !!
What could twi possibly build upon? Everywhere you look.....twi is a hollow shell.
Wierwille's pfal class was STOLEN from Rev. B.G. Leonard.
WOW Ambassador program has been cancelled/replaced by watered-down commitments.
Way Corps Training is and ALWAYS WAS indoctrinating youth.
Corps campuses have all gone belly-up.....exploiting corps labor and ponzi money.
Directors are putting out cheesy ads to "please come work at hq." LOL
Way Mag has a generic/composite display of unreal people in twi.
Long gone are the business, professionals and celebrity-types of the late '70s.
Having stockpiled and invested monies from late 70s/ early 80s.....twi is a mirage.
Top "elites" at hq feast from the tables of the fleeced.
Surrounded by sand......there is NOTHING TO BUILD UPON.
ps. Thanks guys for your kind words. It has been one heck of a journey.....having exited 24-years ago and researched the cult's revisionist history......ie the wierwille deception, rot and corruption that deceived many of us for years.
So thankful....in God's mercy and grace.....to escape the trappings and climb other summits.
Way Mag has a generic/composite display of unreal people in twi.
Massively inauthentic. They can't get honest with themselves about anything that could help them. If they did, I suppose they'd probably have to fold up the tent and go home.
What could twi possibly build upon? Everywhere you look.....twi is a hollow shell.
Wierwille's pfal class was STOLEN from Rev. B.G. Leonard.
WOW Ambassador program has been cancelled/replaced by watered-down commitments.
Way Corps Training is and ALWAYS WAS indoctrinating youth.
Corps campuses have all gone belly-up.....exploiting corps labor and ponzi money.
Directors are putting out cheesy ads to "please come work at hq." LOL
Way Mag has a generic/composite display of unreal people in twi.
Long gone are the business, professionals and celebrity-types of the late '70s.
Having stockpiled and invested monies from late 70s/ early 80s.....twi is a mirage.
Top "elites" at hq feast from the tables of the fleeced.
Surrounded by sand......there is NOTHING TO BUILD UPON.
ps. Thanks guys for your kind words. It has been one heck of a journey.....having exited 24-years ago and researched the cult's revisionist history......ie the wierwille deception, rot and corruption that deceived many of us for years.
So thankful....in God's mercy and grace.....to escape the trappings and climb other summits.
.
Yes absolutely sky !!!
Thank you for all your words over the years. They have helped me tremendously to deal with the PTSD left over from dealing with this insidious cult and self seeking and serving individuals running it.
I am thankful my family and legacy is free from the trappings of this cult to climb other summits and I also am free to climb not bound in my later years to the dictates of cheap dictators.
Vern still has a great smile. I remember him as being a nice, kind, gentle and open man. But then, that was - oh lord - 35 years ago. And I was naive and clueless about the inner workings of TWI. God only knows what sort of man he is now.
3. In this confrontation, the directors are dealing with major players. Four couples have been corps coordinators......overseeing campuses and several hundreds of corps thru the years. Plus, they'd gone on to oversee regions, limbs and branches. Other major players had been hq-staffers for decades......in security, investment, legal, international outreach, etc. No longer were these corps 30 year olds.........they are NOW 60-70 year olds and pi$$ed at the system of corruption.
Y'know, one thing that worries me a little about this.
Some of these folks will go off and start their own splinter groups.
But some of them may go along to some churches and inveigle themselves into leadership positions. After all, they are "Revs" with many years of "leadership" behind them. Do they repent their ways? Genuinely? I do know of some who have left and joined "normal" churches, and some have risen to leadership positions - and appear genuinely repentant. But who knows what some (perhaps not the R&R group, which has a different agenda) may harbour in their thinking if they never address the faulty doctrines? And when they have practised wilful blindness and worse, deception, for decades, and accreted influence and supposed power over others - hmm.
It's taken many of us here years to work out sensible approaches to gospel and theology free from TWI-taint. We here at the Cafe may not agree, but at least we've put thought and effort into what we believe now (or don't believe).
How else could it be but a downward spiral fading into obscurity and death? Rebuild what? Rebuild on what? The 1942 promise? The foundation of the entire enterprise from the very beginning is based on lies. All of it.
........
THE BIG LIE...... "The Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word."
Of course, there were lots of lies and a heaping of false teachings from victor wierwille. He took whole swaths of scriptural references from the pages of Holy Writ [and genuine, God-fearing ministers].....and structured his Babel-temple with a series of stairs to climb.
As you climb these stairs......you reach the floors that give you a better perspective and perch from which to observe. The "advanced class level" is one of those perches. On one hand, you are taught [indoctrinated] many truths from the old testament how these godly men and women received revelation....burning bush, a talking donkey (a$$), writings on the wall, etc. Reading thru these accounts is wonderful and spectacular. But within twi's deceptive plan is the manipulation and coercion of YOUR COMMITMENT TO TWI, "THE MINISTRY."
On the other hand, did you notice [for those who took the advanced class in the '70's].....that wierwille did NOTHING of significance in instructing you on the gifts of healing, casting out devil spirits, or power manifestations? Where was this walking with "all nine all the time" power in wierwille, trustees or top brass at hq? Another one of their selling points was that upon taking the advanced class.....you would reach "spiritual maturity." Remember that? Yet, near the end of the advanced class there was a strong push to promote the corps program for further training!?!?!
Going corps.....you were climbing more stairs. Classes, meetings, obedience training, roll calls, aerobic points, floss charts, monthly financial ledgers [$20 max], twigs, work assignments, pseudo-curriculum of biblical studies, etc. Dozens of my elder corps [7th]....plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc.....were sent to Gunnison, CO and Tinnie, NM for 6-8 weeks of work assignments at those campuses. These guys missed two months of classes at Emporia....and it didn't matter. Thousands upon tens of thousands of hours of free labor were exploited by the cult/ministry.
This was [and is] an abusive system at work. Youth were indoctrinated and trapped into this stair-climbing cult that led to nowhere. Year after year, corps were exploited and abused.....financially, psychologically, emotionally, and sexually. Some apparently have grown accustomed to this institutionalization, but for those who desired to leave.....skilled abusers leveraged and exacted psychological pain and trauma for their exits/escape. Threats of death to them and their children [you will be grease spots by midnight] was heralded from the highest seats of twi.
Even as late as 2020 [a poster on this thread].....said that he was afraid to google "Greasespot Cafe" because he might get possessed. See how entrenched that indocrination-lie imprisons with psychological trauma? The directors ARE abusers and know what they are doing. Look past the fake smiles of Vern, the newly-installed president, and SEE that he is INSIDE THE ABUSERS' CLUBHOUSE.
Also, note......that this summer, twi made a concerted effort to reach out to a younger swath of followers and invited them to hq. Anyone over 35 years old was NOT to attend....why? The name of this game is "youth exploitation." Same thing wierwille did in the late '60's and early '70's. The young mind is generally unable to grasp the levels of deception and exploitation.....yet, the Scriptures give them plenty of warnings about deceivers and seducers.
"The Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word".....was one of wierwille's biggest lies. With his hand in the money jar, wierwille crafted a psychological pyramid scheme on the youth. Much like Jim Jones and Jonestown.....wierwille set up WIERWILLETOWN. Take the pilgrimage every August to Ohio.....and "the corps will build it." They'll set up the tents, supervise and serve the food, maintain the cleanliness of the grounds, oversee bless patrol, clean the porta-potties and showers, and make sure kool-aide was served to one and all.
Anyone not in WIERWILLETOWN.....was an outsider.
Vern Edwards signed on to be the Mayor of WIERWILLETOWN......(???)......tells you everything you need to know about the abusers and their system. It hasn't changed.
... did you notice [for those who took the advanced class in the '70's].....that wierwille did NOTHING of significance in instructing you on the gifts of healing, casting out devil spirits, or power manifestations? Where was this walking with "all nine all the time" power in wierwille, trustees or top brass at hq? Another one of their selling points was that upon taking the advanced class.....you would reach "spiritual maturity." Remember that? ...
It was one of the most depressing, disappointing experiences of my entire life.
It was one of the most depressing, disappointing experiences of my entire life.
Yeah, really disappointing.
Looking back.....I should have EXITED twi, then and there. Wierwille was a fraud.....smoke and mirrors.
All the smoke......the tangents, The Illuminati, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, Marxist Minstrels, The Thirteenth Tribe, The Myth of the Six Million.
All the mirrors......look at the great "man of God" and relish in his definitions of each manifestation. How wonderful to see the sleight-of-hand.....er, gift ministries of Teacher, Prophet and Apostle he brings to us in this day and time. Pppppffffftttt.
. "The Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word."
Was this an actual quote? It makes sense, even if T7TMOG never said it.
HOWEVER, I thought the Word was the Will and the Will was the Word? BUT, it's the Ministry that's the Word? The Ministry, the Ministry, and nothing but the Ministry.
This is what it's all about. The ministry, the corporation, the 501c3.
Edited by Nathan_Jr These gloves fit like gloves.....mmmmmm, gloves...
The name of this game is "youth exploitation." Same thing wierwille did in the late '60's and early '70's. The young mind is generally unable to grasp the levels of deception and exploitation.....yet, the Scriptures give them plenty of warnings about deceivers and seducers.
Largely because young people don't have nearly as much memory built by experiencing the abuse. Therefore they haven't built/received the wisdom necessary to withstand the onslaught.
I think of something OldSkool posted not long ago on a different thread about realizing the bull$hit Rosie was spewing from the head table at lunch time about the lawsuit settlement with the Allens.
OldSkool was able to recognize it most likely because he had enough relevant lived experience.
Looking back.....I should have EXITED twi, then and there. Wierwille was a fraud.....smoke and mirrors.
All the smoke......the tangents, The Illuminati, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, Marxist Minstrels, The Thirteenth Tribe, The Myth of the Six Million.
If you had, you wouldn't be the man you are now. You wouldn't have the insight from which to light the way out of the darkness you actually now do have.
Well, another afternoon being spent very profitably at GSC, thank you ALL. Lots of copying and pasting in my journalings... A few pretty scattered responses if I may:
1) Quote from Skyrider, Aug 7, 2020- "John Summ3rville.........TFI 1975,76 (Total Fitness Institute in California) the only man (as far as I know) who stood up to wierwille." Well, I recall Ralph D recounting his confronting vp on his adulteries at a head hauncho meeting, but don't recall the year... and being summarily fired, put on house arrest, and shipped out. Or maybe that was Craig?? Hhhmmm...
2) T-bone's quote (sorry, can't find exact post now): "Just some quick thoughts here - with wierwille being an unabashed plagiarist and a control freak – maybe the creative process and creative people truly mystified him as something very foreign and outside his comfort zone – hence he would lower the boom...was it something that threatened him and his "leadership"? was he envious of creative people? Did he want to control the creativity of others?"
Possibly! Either way, I agree that it fits that vp's power, control, and narcissistic hold were threatened with the great word in culture movements of the late 70's; I loved the hippie crafts at that ROA! Bought some Really Cool Stuff! I weep at what could have been...
3) I blindly followed cg in '88 along w/ lots of us in IN, so was really good (but tough) to re-evaluate POP (again!), and learn about the truths/various accounts re: Gartmore (and other locations).
4) Damn! re: vp disrespecting girls in that Way Home w/ his nakedness. More like terrorizing... Well, I just can't pull of being humorous about that behavior, as the actual spiritual impact of his unGodly disobedience (LOTS of verses) hits me. Serious spiritual and personal abuse IMO, while not compared to the seductions, rapes, druggings, etc!
Looking back.....I should have EXITED twi, then and there. Wierwille was a fraud.....smoke and mirrors.
All the smoke......the tangents, The Illuminati, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, Marxist Minstrels, The Thirteenth Tribe, The Myth of the Six Million.
All the mirrors......look at the great "man of God" and relish in his definitions of each manifestation. How wonderful to see the sleight-of-hand.....er, gift ministries of Teacher, Prophet and Apostle he brings to us in this day and time. Pppppffffftttt.
Skyrider I agree with Rocky - your detail analysis of TWI stuff and especially all the social dynamics often reads like something a sociologist would write - but it’s not bookish - more like your specialty was cults from a practical experience - like Stephen Hassan’s work
1 hour ago, Rocky said:
If you had, you wouldn't be the man you are now. You wouldn't have the insight from which to light the way out of the darkness you actually now
Skyrider I agree with Rocky - your detail analysis of TWI stuff and especially all the social dynamics often reads like something a sociologist would write - but it’s not bookish - more like your specialty was cults from a practical experience - like Stephen Hassan’s work
T-Bone and Rocky.....thanks, and I understand where you are coming from regarding this.
BUT..... honestly, at times, the hurt in my heart aches from my deprogramming experience. This episode caused a fracture and an estrangement with my parents that never was mended. Last week was the 14-year anniversary of my Dad's death.....and some of the memories came back into view.
Here at Greasespot.....we've spent some 20 years unraveling the deception, manipulation and exploitation of this cult. I'm quite certain that my farming parents had no concept of how to cut twi's tentacles from my young mind. They were concerned, anxious and understandably scared. When this deprogramming effort "failed"..... I spent 17 more years trapped in this cult, 17 more years that I didn't have them in my life.
Hopefully, others who visit GSC will heed our warnings. Twi is a cult.....and exudes disdain for what they call one's "earthly family." So, how's that "spiritual household" working out for you, twi? Tatters and ruins.
Hopefully, others who visit GSC will heed our warnings. Twi is a cult.....and exudes disdain for what they call one's "earthly family."
Yes. I get it. Your sentiment echoes the blurb I wrote for Undertow. I grieve with you.
May your heart be led to put your recollections into a memoir like Charlene or Kristin have done.
Quote
“Undertow is a gift to young people and their families who want to understand the inner workings of fundamentalist cults. Charlene Edge’s experience parallels much of my own twelve years as a follower of Victor Paul Wierwille’s ministry. Undertow sheds light on the decisions, questions, and longings that she encountered, and ultimately worked her way through. In the words of Canadian author Matshona Dhliwayo, ‘Books are kinder teachers than experience.’ May Undertow be a kinder teacher to you than Charlene’s seventeen years in The Way International were to her.” —Steve Muratore, publisher of award-winning political blog the Arizona Eagletarian
Edge, Charlene L. Undertow . New Wings Press, LLC. Kindle Edition.
May grace and comfort accompany on whatever journey you choose for the rest of your days.
THE BIG LIE...... "The Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word."
I actually had pushed that down in my conscious mind from direct remembrance.
I would agree this is the big lie that justifies practical error and gives rise to spirits of antichrist, obsession and error to run free within the confines of that group.
Antichrist because the emphasis shifts from Christ and new birth to orchestrated SIT and Pharisee compliance.
Obsession because of the scribe like pursuit of interpretation while denying any private opinion. And the control and sex.
Error because this all happens while the dullard is believing they know scripture better than any other Christian group.
I look forward to the bema and standing by Jesus side while he covers these items with them. If I am allowed.
I actually had pushed that down in my conscious mind from direct remembrance.
I would agree this is the big lie that justifies practical error and gives rise to spirits of antichrist, obsession and error to run free within the confines of that group.
Antichrist because the emphasis shifts from Christ and new birth to orchestrated SIT and Pharisee compliance.
........
Once you see the strings on the marionettes, you can never return to that moment in the performance when you did not see them.
Well, another afternoon being spent very profitably at GSC, thank you ALL. Lots of copying and pasting in my journalings... A few pretty scattered responses if I may:
1) Quote from Skyrider, Aug 7, 2020- "John Summ3rville.........TFI 1975,76 (Total Fitness Institute in California) the only man (as far as I know) who stood up to wierwille." Well, I recall Ralph D recounting his confronting vp on his adulteries at a head hauncho meeting, but don't recall the year... and being summarily fired, put on house arrest, and shipped out. Or maybe that was Craig?? Hhhmmm...
[What you're thinking of was craig. Some woman came to Ralph for help, and he went to get to the bottom of this "abusing the women/lockbox" thing. The twi powers-that-be stopped him from talking to anyone while they escorted him off-grounds, threatening him with dogs and firearms. I don't remember that waiting for any kind of meeting.
That having been said, vpw got less shrift than he was hoping. He got testy with Ralph not reacting like he was the US president and standing when he entered the room or something. He asked if Ralph would stand if (then-president) Nixon entered the room.]
"As it turned out, I had an affinity for being hailed into dictor's office over the loudspeakers in the courtyard for personal reproof and correction meetings frequently during my first 4 months in the corpse. The first one, I entered his office smoking a cigarette and sat down without asking permission. OMG!....you'd think the world was ending! Dictor screams at me, "Stand up!".
Would you walk into the office of President Nixon smoking a .... cigarette?". I quickly shot back, "I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near old tricky dick's office VP!" I was then ordered at top vein-popping volume, to get the .... outta his sight and never call him "VP" again! Never got around to yelling at me for whatever he called me in for."
On 8/22/2022 at 5:49 PM, annio said:
2) T-bone's quote (sorry, can't find exact post now): "Just some quick thoughts here - with wierwille being an unabashed plagiarist and a control freak – maybe the creative process and creative people truly mystified him as something very foreign and outside his comfort zone – hence he would lower the boom...was it something that threatened him and his "leadership"? was he envious of creative people? Did he want to control the creativity of others?"
Possibly! Either way, I agree that it fits that vp's power, control, and narcissistic hold were threatened with the great word in culture movements of the late 70's; I loved the hippie crafts at that ROA! Bought some Really Cool Stuff! I weep at what could have been...
3) I blindly followed cg in '88 along w/ lots of us in IN, so was really good (but tough) to re-evaluate POP (again!), and learn about the truths/various accounts re: Gartmore (and other locations).
4) Damn! re: vp disrespecting girls in that Way Home w/ his nakedness. More like terrorizing... Well, I just can't pull of being humorous about that behavior, as the actual spiritual impact of his unGodly disobedience (LOTS of verses) hits me. Serious spiritual and personal abuse IMO, while not compared to the seductions, rapes, druggings, etc!
All for now, phew! Best to all!
[I think, given his narcissism, vpw belittled what he didn't understand- like creativity in the arts, music. etc. He could play an existing song but didn't make much of those who made new songs.
One of the best things at the ROA was all the unofficial stuff people sold around the grounds- music, t-shirts, wood-carvings, etc. I liked bringing souvenirs for those who couldn't make the trip.
When lcm was forcing everyone to choose between lcm and cg, he made it look like choosing cg was a good idea. It wasn't as bad an idea as choosing lcm- which is not the same thing at all. ]
From the "Cliches, Collaterals and Claptrap" thread.....
============================================
"The surrounding of himself with an armed security detail and a tight entourage was not out of fear as much as it was out of malignant narcissism.
My first summer school in 1971, dictor was everybody's pal. He walked around in shorts and overalls and hung out with his keedz. Lots of pizza and beer or burger nights, dances with secular rock and R&B music. There was no dress code other than Sunday nights and corpse nights (Tuesday's back then). Lots of laughter and music in prep for the first ROA.
But, by the time of my first year in-Rez, it was already changing. As it turned out, I had an affinity for being hailed into dictor's office over the loudspeakers in the courtyard for personal reproof and correction meetings frequently during my first 4 months in the corpse. The first one, I entered his office smoking a cigarette and sat down without asking permission. OMG!....you'd think the world was ending! Dictor screams at me, "Stand up!".
Would you walk into the office of President Nixon smoking a .... cigarette?". I quickly shot back, "I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near old tricky dick's office VP!" I was then ordered at top vein-popping volume, to get the .... outta his sight and never call him "VP" again! Never got around to yelling at me for whatever he called me in for.
But, I began to see that malignant narcissistic delusional grandeur of dictor as the man-o-gawd. Comparing himself to Nixon as worthy of the same care, concern, respect and treatment for himself as the most important man on the Earth.....the greatest Apostle since Paul in the first centur, expositor of the great mystery, whose "specialty" was "the holy spirit field" which he co-opted and blatantNtly plagiarized from J.E. Stiles, B.G. Leonard, E.W. Bullinger, Kenyon, Pillai, Lamsa, Glenn Clark, Rufus Mosely, Starr Daily, Oswald Chambers, Rosalind Rinker, F.F. Bruce, Charles Welch, to name a few of his original researchers.
So, when Dictor had enough $$ and "trained personnel", the security team, "Bless Patrol", guns, malpacks etc., took over and the goon squad began in earnest in 1975 under the guise of "spiritual vigilance and CP# 1" against the reprogrammers and the seedboy-led trinitarian denominations which were out to kill him and "the minus-tray of the word" we all stood for. Oh the humanity!......LOL!
Add to the growing malignant paranoid narcissism, alcoholism, neo-Nazi politics and Aryan theology, stir in a little of Nietche's "Ubermensch" and a lot of sexual predation and serial rape, and you've got a lot to protect, eh? Surround yourself with family and corpses and build your kingdom. Grab guys like MacMullan, Quillen, Geer, Wajnberg, and some other psychopathic ex-marines, Green Berets, and general whackos, give 'em guns and "training" and turn them loose. First on the enemies without.....then, more sinisterly, the enemies within. The whole gun/security/bless patrol/goon squad thing was produced not by fear, but rather by a massive malignant paranoid narcissist's vain and self-serving ego trip. Sheesh!"
Once you see the strings on the marionettes, you can never return to that moment in the performance when you did not see them.
.
This!
When the veil is lifted, what you will see cannot be unseen. This seeing is clarity of perception. But another cannot see it for you. Another's claimed light is not the light that will illuminate. This clarity of perception cannot be taught. No amount of teaching can SEE the Truth for you. You can only see it for yourself. You either see it, or you don't.... until you do.... no one can see it for you.
When one sees the Truth, one realizes it is nothing to be possessed. Beware the one claiming to HAVE the Truth, for he surely does not.
Was this an actual quote? It makes sense, even if T7TMOG never said it.
HOWEVER, I thought the Word was the Will and the Will was the Word? BUT, it's the Ministry that's the Word? The Ministry, the Ministry, and nothing but the Ministry.
This is what it's all about. The ministry, the corporation, the 501c3.
Hey Nate. Yes it’s an actual quote I’ve heard it many times. I didn’t check but would bet it is in the Lifelines publication of VPs one liners.
Hey Nate. Yes it’s an actual quote I’ve heard it many times. I didn’t check but would bet it is in the Lifelines publication of VPs one liners.
Thanks, Chockfull.
So, it's the ministryrightly divided?? The rightly divided ministry? The ministry, the ministry and nothing but the ministry? The will of God is the ministry of God?
Hey Nate. Yes it’s an actual quote ....["The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word."] I’ve heard it many times. I didn’t check but would bet it is in the Lifelines publication of VPs one liners.
Having studied and reviewed wierwille's history of failures and bloviating.....and reading thru Mrs. W's book a few times.....wierwille traveled up and down the highways for 10 years [1958-1967] running pfal classes and LOTS (90%?) of those pfal grads WENT BACK TO THEIR CHURCHES.
People, even after taking the pfal class, did "not stick" with twi.
Wierwille, the malignant narcissist, could not understand this. Why would people having heard "the Word" (cough, cough) NOT want to continue in fellowship and support of The Way Ministry? So, what's an authoritarian to do? Well......tweak language, insert directives and mandates, disguised intentions, etc. ... all with subjugation [control] over others. Inserting little one-liners like "The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word"......to ensnare them.
"The Word" was/is a generic, all-encompassing term of claiming ownership and sole biblical authority
"the ministry" was/is those who faithfully support and affirm that pfal class is foundational truth
Deception.....making it appear that two things are congruent, in agreement
Wierwille wanted to weld these two terms/concepts together
Much like Jesus Christ is THE WAY and twi's corporation "followers of the way"
Thus, anyone who LEFT "the ministry" ALSO LEFT "the word"
And further, any clergy (or anyone) who left twi did NOT have "the word"
Lots of wierwille's one-liners and cliches, when further inspected, were deceptive
Wierwille was an opportunist, hustler and grifter. The Van Wert church board voted unanimously to have his name stricken from the church's clergy register. Erased. Forgotten. Good Riddance.
Wierwille, then, spent 10 years trying to peddle Leonard's "The Gifts of the Spirit" class to church goers. Very few people thru the years stuck with vpw....except a couple of dozen enablers who got fiefdoms in twi for their efforts. The 1967 film class gave wierwille more time to recruit youth as "class instructors" while he promoted summer camps. More youth. Music. Counterculture. Distance from parents. Night owls. Sex, drugs and rock and roll.
Finally, wierwille figured that his best strategy was to have Youth Firebrands front the ministry.....while he drives the country in his secluded motor coach. And, when in public....surround himself with an entourage of yes-men, body guards. Build the mystique as "the man of God" and let the adulation pour in.
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penworks
As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Neverthele
JavaJane
Been there and done that. It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online. And then a couple years after that before I realized God was
skyrider
Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980?
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skyrider
EXACTLY !!
What could twi possibly build upon? Everywhere you look.....twi is a hollow shell.
Surrounded by sand......there is NOTHING TO BUILD UPON.
ps. Thanks guys for your kind words. It has been one heck of a journey.....having exited 24-years ago and researched the cult's revisionist history......ie the wierwille deception, rot and corruption that deceived many of us for years.
So thankful....in God's mercy and grace.....to escape the trappings and climb other summits.
.
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OldSkool
Well...you have helped me significantly over the years with your posts and for that I thank you!
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Rocky
Massively inauthentic. They can't get honest with themselves about anything that could help them. If they did, I suppose they'd probably have to fold up the tent and go home.
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chockfull
Yes absolutely sky !!!
Thank you for all your words over the years. They have helped me tremendously to deal with the PTSD left over from dealing with this insidious cult and self seeking and serving individuals running it.
I am thankful my family and legacy is free from the trappings of this cult to climb other summits and I also am free to climb not bound in my later years to the dictates of cheap dictators.
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Twinky
Vern still has a great smile. I remember him as being a nice, kind, gentle and open man. But then, that was - oh lord - 35 years ago. And I was naive and clueless about the inner workings of TWI. God only knows what sort of man he is now.
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Twinky
Y'know, one thing that worries me a little about this.
Some of these folks will go off and start their own splinter groups.
But some of them may go along to some churches and inveigle themselves into leadership positions. After all, they are "Revs" with many years of "leadership" behind them. Do they repent their ways? Genuinely? I do know of some who have left and joined "normal" churches, and some have risen to leadership positions - and appear genuinely repentant. But who knows what some (perhaps not the R&R group, which has a different agenda) may harbour in their thinking if they never address the faulty doctrines? And when they have practised wilful blindness and worse, deception, for decades, and accreted influence and supposed power over others - hmm.
It's taken many of us here years to work out sensible approaches to gospel and theology free from TWI-taint. We here at the Cafe may not agree, but at least we've put thought and effort into what we believe now (or don't believe).
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skyrider
THE BIG LIE...... "The Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word."
Of course, there were lots of lies and a heaping of false teachings from victor wierwille. He took whole swaths of scriptural references from the pages of Holy Writ [and genuine, God-fearing ministers].....and structured his Babel-temple with a series of stairs to climb.
As you climb these stairs......you reach the floors that give you a better perspective and perch from which to observe. The "advanced class level" is one of those perches. On one hand, you are taught [indoctrinated] many truths from the old testament how these godly men and women received revelation....burning bush, a talking donkey (a$$), writings on the wall, etc. Reading thru these accounts is wonderful and spectacular. But within twi's deceptive plan is the manipulation and coercion of YOUR COMMITMENT TO TWI, "THE MINISTRY."
On the other hand, did you notice [for those who took the advanced class in the '70's].....that wierwille did NOTHING of significance in instructing you on the gifts of healing, casting out devil spirits, or power manifestations? Where was this walking with "all nine all the time" power in wierwille, trustees or top brass at hq? Another one of their selling points was that upon taking the advanced class.....you would reach "spiritual maturity." Remember that? Yet, near the end of the advanced class there was a strong push to promote the corps program for further training!?!?!
Going corps.....you were climbing more stairs. Classes, meetings, obedience training, roll calls, aerobic points, floss charts, monthly financial ledgers [$20 max], twigs, work assignments, pseudo-curriculum of biblical studies, etc. Dozens of my elder corps [7th]....plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc.....were sent to Gunnison, CO and Tinnie, NM for 6-8 weeks of work assignments at those campuses. These guys missed two months of classes at Emporia....and it didn't matter. Thousands upon tens of thousands of hours of free labor were exploited by the cult/ministry.
This was [and is] an abusive system at work. Youth were indoctrinated and trapped into this stair-climbing cult that led to nowhere. Year after year, corps were exploited and abused.....financially, psychologically, emotionally, and sexually. Some apparently have grown accustomed to this institutionalization, but for those who desired to leave.....skilled abusers leveraged and exacted psychological pain and trauma for their exits/escape. Threats of death to them and their children [you will be grease spots by midnight] was heralded from the highest seats of twi.
Even as late as 2020 [a poster on this thread].....said that he was afraid to google "Greasespot Cafe" because he might get possessed. See how entrenched that indocrination-lie imprisons with psychological trauma? The directors ARE abusers and know what they are doing. Look past the fake smiles of Vern, the newly-installed president, and SEE that he is INSIDE THE ABUSERS' CLUBHOUSE.
Also, note......that this summer, twi made a concerted effort to reach out to a younger swath of followers and invited them to hq. Anyone over 35 years old was NOT to attend....why? The name of this game is "youth exploitation." Same thing wierwille did in the late '60's and early '70's. The young mind is generally unable to grasp the levels of deception and exploitation.....yet, the Scriptures give them plenty of warnings about deceivers and seducers.
"The Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word".....was one of wierwille's biggest lies. With his hand in the money jar, wierwille crafted a psychological pyramid scheme on the youth. Much like Jim Jones and Jonestown.....wierwille set up WIERWILLETOWN. Take the pilgrimage every August to Ohio.....and "the corps will build it." They'll set up the tents, supervise and serve the food, maintain the cleanliness of the grounds, oversee bless patrol, clean the porta-potties and showers, and make sure kool-aide was served to one and all.
Anyone not in WIERWILLETOWN.....was an outsider.
Vern Edwards signed on to be the Mayor of WIERWILLETOWN......(???)......tells you everything you need to know about the abusers and their system. It hasn't changed.
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waysider
It was one of the most depressing, disappointing experiences of my entire life.
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skyrider
Yeah, really disappointing.
Looking back.....I should have EXITED twi, then and there. Wierwille was a fraud.....smoke and mirrors.
All the smoke......the tangents, The Illuminati, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, Marxist Minstrels, The Thirteenth Tribe, The Myth of the Six Million.
All the mirrors......look at the great "man of God" and relish in his definitions of each manifestation. How wonderful to see the
sleight-of-hand.....er, gift ministries of Teacher, Prophet and Apostle he brings to us in this day and time. Pppppffffftttt.Link to comment
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Nathan_Jr
Was this an actual quote? It makes sense, even if T7TMOG never said it.
HOWEVER, I thought the Word was the Will and the Will was the Word? BUT, it's the Ministry that's the Word? The Ministry, the Ministry, and nothing but the Ministry.
This is what it's all about. The ministry, the corporation, the 501c3.
Edited by Nathan_JrThese gloves fit like gloves.....mmmmmm, gloves...
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Rocky
Largely because young people don't have nearly as much memory built by experiencing the abuse. Therefore they haven't built/received the wisdom necessary to withstand the onslaught.
Edited by RockyI think of something OldSkool posted not long ago on a different thread about realizing the bull$hit Rosie was spewing from the head table at lunch time about the lawsuit settlement with the Allens.
OldSkool was able to recognize it most likely because he had enough relevant lived experience.
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Rocky
If you had, you wouldn't be the man you are now. You wouldn't have the insight from which to light the way out of the darkness you actually now do have.
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annio
Well, another afternoon being spent very profitably at GSC, thank you ALL. Lots of copying and pasting in my journalings... A few pretty scattered responses if I may:
1) Quote from Skyrider, Aug 7, 2020- "John Summ3rville.........TFI 1975,76 (Total Fitness Institute in California) the only man (as far as I know) who stood up to wierwille." Well, I recall Ralph D recounting his confronting vp on his adulteries at a head hauncho meeting, but don't recall the year... and being summarily fired, put on house arrest, and shipped out. Or maybe that was Craig?? Hhhmmm...
2) T-bone's quote (sorry, can't find exact post now): "Just some quick thoughts here - with wierwille being an unabashed plagiarist and a control freak – maybe the creative process and creative people truly mystified him as something very foreign and outside his comfort zone – hence he would lower the boom...was it something that threatened him and his "leadership"? was he envious of creative people? Did he want to control the creativity of others?"
Possibly! Either way, I agree that it fits that vp's power, control, and narcissistic hold were threatened with the great word in culture movements of the late 70's; I loved the hippie crafts at that ROA! Bought some Really Cool Stuff! I weep at what could have been...
3) I blindly followed cg in '88 along w/ lots of us in IN, so was really good (but tough) to re-evaluate POP (again!), and learn about the truths/various accounts re: Gartmore (and other locations).
4) Damn! re: vp disrespecting girls in that Way Home w/ his nakedness. More like terrorizing... Well, I just can't pull of being humorous about that behavior, as the actual spiritual impact of his unGodly disobedience (LOTS of verses) hits me. Serious spiritual and personal abuse IMO, while not compared to the seductions, rapes, druggings, etc!
All for now, phew! Best to all!
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T-Bone
Skyrider I agree with Rocky - your detail analysis of TWI stuff and especially all the social dynamics often reads like something a sociologist would write - but it’s not bookish - more like your specialty was cults from a practical experience - like Stephen Hassan’s work
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skyrider
T-Bone and Rocky.....thanks, and I understand where you are coming from regarding this.
BUT..... honestly, at times, the hurt in my heart aches from my deprogramming experience. This episode caused a fracture and an estrangement with my parents that never was mended. Last week was the 14-year anniversary of my Dad's death.....and some of the memories came back into view.
Here at Greasespot.....we've spent some 20 years unraveling the deception, manipulation and exploitation of this cult. I'm quite certain that my farming parents had no concept of how to cut twi's tentacles from my young mind. They were concerned, anxious and understandably scared. When this deprogramming effort "failed"..... I spent 17 more years trapped in this cult, 17 more years that I didn't have them in my life.
Hopefully, others who visit GSC will heed our warnings. Twi is a cult.....and exudes disdain for what they call one's "earthly family." So, how's that "spiritual household" working out for you, twi? Tatters and ruins.
.
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Rocky
Yes. I get it. Your sentiment echoes the blurb I wrote for Undertow. I grieve with you.
May your heart be led to put your recollections into a memoir like Charlene or Kristin have done.
May grace and comfort accompany on whatever journey you choose for the rest of your days.
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chockfull
I actually had pushed that down in my conscious mind from direct remembrance.
I would agree this is the big lie that justifies practical error and gives rise to spirits of antichrist, obsession and error to run free within the confines of that group.
Antichrist because the emphasis shifts from Christ and new birth to orchestrated SIT and Pharisee compliance.
Obsession because of the scribe like pursuit of interpretation while denying any private opinion. And the control and sex.
Error because this all happens while the dullard is believing they know scripture better than any other Christian group.
I look forward to the bema and standing by Jesus side while he covers these items with them. If I am allowed.
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skyrider
Once you see the strings on the marionettes, you can never return to that moment in the performance when you did not see them.
.
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WordWolf
[What you're thinking of was craig. Some woman came to Ralph for help, and he went to get to the bottom of this "abusing the women/lockbox" thing. The twi powers-that-be stopped him from talking to anyone while they escorted him off-grounds, threatening him with dogs and firearms. I don't remember that waiting for any kind of meeting.
That having been said, vpw got less shrift than he was hoping. He got testy with Ralph not reacting like he was the US president and standing when he entered the room or something. He asked if Ralph would stand if (then-president) Nixon entered the room.]
"As it turned out, I had an affinity for being hailed into dictor's office over the loudspeakers in the courtyard for personal reproof and correction meetings frequently during my first 4 months in the corpse. The first one, I entered his office smoking a cigarette and sat down without asking permission. OMG!....you'd think the world was ending! Dictor screams at me, "Stand up!".
Would you walk into the office of President Nixon smoking a .... cigarette?". I quickly shot back, "I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near old tricky dick's office VP!" I was then ordered at top vein-popping volume, to get the .... outta his sight and never call him "VP" again! Never got around to yelling at me for whatever he called me in for."
[I think, given his narcissism, vpw belittled what he didn't understand- like creativity in the arts, music. etc. He could play an existing song but didn't make much of those who made new songs.
One of the best things at the ROA was all the unofficial stuff people sold around the grounds- music, t-shirts, wood-carvings, etc. I liked bringing souvenirs for those who couldn't make the trip.
When lcm was forcing everyone to choose between lcm and cg, he made it look like choosing cg was a good idea. It wasn't as bad an idea as choosing lcm- which is not the same thing at all. ]
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WordWolf
From the "Cliches, Collaterals and Claptrap" thread.....
============================================
"The surrounding of himself with an armed security detail and a tight entourage was not out of fear as much as it was out of malignant narcissism.
My first summer school in 1971, dictor was everybody's pal. He walked around in shorts and overalls and hung out with his keedz. Lots of pizza and beer or burger nights, dances with secular rock and R&B music. There was no dress code other than Sunday nights and corpse nights (Tuesday's back then). Lots of laughter and music in prep for the first ROA.
But, by the time of my first year in-Rez, it was already changing. As it turned out, I had an affinity for being hailed into dictor's office over the loudspeakers in the courtyard for personal reproof and correction meetings frequently during my first 4 months in the corpse. The first one, I entered his office smoking a cigarette and sat down without asking permission. OMG!....you'd think the world was ending! Dictor screams at me, "Stand up!".
Would you walk into the office of President Nixon smoking a .... cigarette?". I quickly shot back, "I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near old tricky dick's office VP!" I was then ordered at top vein-popping volume, to get the .... outta his sight and never call him "VP" again! Never got around to yelling at me for whatever he called me in for.
But, I began to see that malignant narcissistic delusional grandeur of dictor as the man-o-gawd. Comparing himself to Nixon as worthy of the same care, concern, respect and treatment for himself as the most important man on the Earth.....the greatest Apostle since Paul in the first centur, expositor of the great mystery, whose "specialty" was "the holy spirit field" which he co-opted and blatantNtly plagiarized from J.E. Stiles, B.G. Leonard, E.W. Bullinger, Kenyon, Pillai, Lamsa, Glenn Clark, Rufus Mosely, Starr Daily, Oswald Chambers, Rosalind Rinker, F.F. Bruce, Charles Welch, to name a few of his original researchers.
So, when Dictor had enough $$ and "trained personnel", the security team, "Bless Patrol", guns, malpacks etc., took over and the goon squad began in earnest in 1975 under the guise of "spiritual vigilance and CP# 1" against the reprogrammers and the seedboy-led trinitarian denominations which were out to kill him and "the minus-tray of the word" we all stood for. Oh the humanity!......LOL!
Add to the growing malignant paranoid narcissism, alcoholism, neo-Nazi politics and Aryan theology, stir in a little of Nietche's "Ubermensch" and a lot of sexual predation and serial rape, and you've got a lot to protect, eh? Surround yourself with family and corpses and build your kingdom. Grab guys like MacMullan, Quillen, Geer, Wajnberg, and some other psychopathic ex-marines, Green Berets, and general whackos, give 'em guns and "training" and turn them loose. First on the enemies without.....then, more sinisterly, the enemies within. The whole gun/security/bless patrol/goon squad thing was produced not by fear, but rather by a massive malignant paranoid narcissist's vain and self-serving ego trip. Sheesh!"
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Nathan_Jr
This!
When the veil is lifted, what you will see cannot be unseen. This seeing is clarity of perception. But another cannot see it for you. Another's claimed light is not the light that will illuminate. This clarity of perception cannot be taught. No amount of teaching can SEE the Truth for you. You can only see it for yourself. You either see it, or you don't.... until you do.... no one can see it for you.
When one sees the Truth, one realizes it is nothing to be possessed. Beware the one claiming to HAVE the Truth, for he surely does not.
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chockfull
Hey Nate. Yes it’s an actual quote I’ve heard it many times. I didn’t check but would bet it is in the Lifelines publication of VPs one liners.
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Nathan_Jr
Thanks, Chockfull.
So, it's the ministry rightly divided?? The rightly divided ministry? The ministry, the ministry and nothing but the ministry? The will of God is the ministry of God?
Hey, if doesn't fit, MAKE it fit.
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skyrider
Having studied and reviewed wierwille's history of failures and bloviating.....and reading thru Mrs. W's book a few times.....wierwille traveled up and down the highways for 10 years [1958-1967] running pfal classes and LOTS (90%?) of those pfal grads WENT BACK TO THEIR CHURCHES.
People, even after taking the pfal class, did "not stick" with twi.
TWI-Gatekeepers No More
Wierwille, the malignant narcissist, could not understand this. Why would people having heard "the Word" (cough, cough) NOT want to continue in fellowship and support of The Way Ministry? So, what's an authoritarian to do? Well......tweak language, insert directives and mandates, disguised intentions, etc. ... all with subjugation [control] over others. Inserting little one-liners like "The Word is the ministry and the ministry is the Word"......to ensnare them.
Wierwille was an opportunist, hustler and grifter. The Van Wert church board voted unanimously to have his name stricken from the church's clergy register. Erased. Forgotten. Good Riddance.
Wierwille, then, spent 10 years trying to peddle Leonard's "The Gifts of the Spirit" class to church goers. Very few people thru the years stuck with vpw....except a couple of dozen enablers who got fiefdoms in twi for their efforts. The 1967 film class gave wierwille more time to recruit youth as "class instructors" while he promoted summer camps. More youth. Music. Counterculture. Distance from parents. Night owls. Sex, drugs and rock and roll.
Finally, wierwille figured that his best strategy was to have Youth Firebrands front the ministry.....while he drives the country in his secluded motor coach. And, when in public....surround himself with an entourage of yes-men, body guards. Build the mystique as "the man of God" and let the adulation pour in.
Marketing 101
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