Sooooooo…I think Penworks has the right idea – dissolve TWI.
Sorry to disappoint any expectations...............but TWI is NOT going to dissolve.
When wierwille was president.....if he would have been exposed, then it could have been dissolved (maybe).
I tend to think.......if the cult leader went down in flames, then the cult died. But NOW, the system is the cult. Much like Scientology that gives unbridled adulation to L. Ron Hubbard......the cult feeds off the 1) attaining spiritual enlightenment, 2) the mystique of the founder and 3)mysticism. No one is going to be idolizing Vern Edwards or Donna Martindale......they are merely figureheads that help the system keep the "railroad" running.
Vern will be micro-managed. Rupp will be critiqued. But Donna......she is the one in authority and no blame will come to her door. When there are failures and mistakes...... Donna will step in and confront it. Easy-peasy. She is beyond reproach. She is the "shadow governance" over the cult.
Not sure about this. The evolution would be complete if some of the Wierwille kids came back to head up TWI. But they haven't, and won't. Too busy with CFFM, which has taken a different track from TWI.
Sorry to disappoint any expectations...............but TWI is NOT going to dissolve.
When wierwille was president.....if he would have been exposed, then it could have been dissolved (maybe).
I tend to think.......if the cult leader went down in flames, then the cult died. But NOW, the system is the cult.
Much like Scientology that gives unbridled adulation to L. Ron Hubbard......
the cult feeds off the 1) attaining spiritual enlightenment, 2) the mystique of the founder and 3)mysticism. No one is going to be idolizing Vern Edwards or Donna Martindale......they are merely figureheads that help the system keep the "railroad" running.
Vern will be micro-managed. Rupp will be critiqued. But Donna......she is the one in authority and no blame will come to her door. When there are failures and mistakes...... Donna will step in and confront it. Easy-peasy. She is beyond reproach. She is the "shadow governance" over the cult.
The evolution is complete.
You sound like one of those suppressive persons Scientology warned about ....just kidding
I think you’re right…it’s sickening to think that wierwille is now immortalized by some for whatever whitewashed and/or delusional reasons.
Skyrider, your post got me thinking of how much more complex the inner-workings of TWI are. It’s wheels within wheels (not to be confused with Ezekiel’s wheel ) :
“If you say that there are wheels within wheels, you mean that there are a number of different influences, reasons, and actions which together make a situation complicated and difficult to understand. ‘Our culture is more complex than he knows. Wheels within wheels.’ ” (from Collins dictionary ) …Exploring how TWI institutionalized social controls has always held my interest – but you got me thinking of another angle – that looks at the heart of the problem – who really runs the show.
........
T-Bone..........wheels, within wheels. I like that.
I, too, like exploring how twi institutionalized social controls. When I finally took off the rose-colored glasses and focused on wierwille's life and twi......it became clear that it was "wheels and wheels" of deception. The 1942 bogus beginning of twi. The Van Wert Church Board unanimously striking wierwille's name from their clergy registry. The undeniable fact that wierwille stole Leonard's class! And then......10 years of pathetic results even though wierwille was traveling up and down the highway.
I cannot name one thing wierwille did where I'd call it the power of God. Not one!
I think we all know that my idea is a dream, for now. Donna is in the hot seat. But she'll do what Rosalie says. I knew them back in the day. Sigh ... I remember Donna in the olden days, when she was a "secretary" on staff, and I was in my second year of the Corps. She was totally loyal even then. And then went in the 4th Corps. For many early Corps, the loyalty was planted so deeply they'll never root it out of themselves. I don't really have much hope for The Way going bye bye any time soon, at least in name.
Added note: by "loyalty" in her case, I mean sticking with VPW's legacy no matter what.
I think we all know that my idea is a dream, for now. Donna is in the hot seat. But she'll do what Rosalie says. I knew them back in the day. Sigh ... I remember Donna in the olden days, when she was a "secretary" on staff, and I was in my second year of the Corps. She was totally loyal even then. And then went in the 4th Corps. For many early Corps, the loyalty was planted so deeply they'll never root it out of themselves. I don't really have much hope for The Way going bye bye any time soon, at least in name.
Added note: by "loyalty" in her case, I mean sticking with VPW's legacy no matter what.
Donna Lombardi Martindale and Rosalie F. Shumate [link] are two sides of the same coin.
The coin is counterfeit.
Notice the pattern......arrive at twi's headquarters, a "secretary" on staff, a loyalist, an opportunist, go corps, stay on payroll, minimal time on field and yearning to be at the cult compound, marry, divorce, stay at hq. Connections, baby! The inner-sanctum club. A former trunk leader posted his knowledge of Rosie's and Donna's sexual activities with other corps men and even wierwille. Read the link.
Sticking with VPW's legacy is nothing more that riding his coattails.....i.e. the gravy train. Thru decades of exploitation, twi has amassed some $68 Million and guards their investments, and its accruements, with beady-eyes. Think Mr. Scrooge and the Christmas Carol. Decades and decades of staffers were paid "according to their need"......and since they lived on grounds in floppy trailers or founders hall and ate in twi's cafeteria, they needed very little. Corps and staff bought into the martyrdom complex of twi's subtle power of spiritual abuse. They count themselves in the Halls of the Faithful. Ugh.
Donna and Rosalie ride the train.......and wave.
Why should they leave........................EVER?
Add Marcia Faulk Greene into the mix. When Rosalie summoned Bill and Marcia back to headquarters, she accomplished two things: 1) With Bill Greene on the Board of Directors to guard her flank, Rosalie was given more time to adjust the pieces of the chessboard, and 2) Marcia Greene is a longtime friend and "buds" with the girls.
How many times will Donna, Rosalie and Marcia slip away for fine dining and shopping sprees?
How many times will Donna be able to phone in her marching orders.......while out and about with Rosalie?
How many hours will Donna need to work each week for all those perks, pay and privileges of ceo.........10 hours? 20 hours?
The CEO gig AND time with the girls......whoohoo.
P.S. Just adding to Penwork's post. She knows all this stuff well and I'm not suggesting for her to read the link. Penworks wrote a book on the cult's fundamentalist views and how they abused and exploited their followers.
I wanted to hear more and think through a good response to what is going on before I posted something here about whose calling the shots in the Way, but this is what I think is going on:
Vern's current role in the Way is similar to that of Gorbachev's in the Soviet Union.
The story starts with the state of the Way in the 2000's: its still significant assets have been depreciating, and it shows. TWI has been destroying buildings and selling property that it doesn't have the resources to maintain. The Way had been creeping along, but its stagnation wasn't of any critical concern, until 2017.
In 2017, Revival and Restoration comes along. As tough as TWI wanted to be with R&R, it was not as invincible as it made itself out to be. The M&As of various state and region coordinators took a toll on TWI. The number of followers in the US had always been small, but in the wake of R&R, TWI's numbers had become unsustainably small and so did the ABS inflows.
The initial solution from leadership was simple: MORE WITNESSING. Way of the USA (Trunk Office) lit a fire under every follower to go out witnessing more, but the reaction from the rank and file followers was mixed and only the most devout answered the call. Even with more people walking around malls and knocking on doors, the results were poor. Thanks to the combined forces of the cold and bureaucratic rules about classes, and Google, TWI found little success recruiting more followers. I don't know what the plan with JYDL was, maybe to better connect with TWI's large francophone following from West Africa, but that seemed to take a lesser priority to increasing ABS for whoever was in charge. In the end, JYDL played the role of the scapegoat for TWI's under-performance (although even among the most devout, you will hear whispers that Rosalie should have retired earlier, so I don't know if anyone actually believes that).
Enter Vern. By now, Rosalie had seen the writing on the wall and that TWI couldn't keep doing what it had been doing for at least the past 20 years and was at least willing to delegate. I think Vern will actually make changes in how things are done on staff and in the field. He has the power to do so. The other BOD members don't live on grounds and I suspect have little sway outside their at most quarterly meetings. Donna and the Secretary Treasurer (who I think is her sister) will keep their eyes on Vern and the ABS inflows, but I don't think they will get involved in daily decision making unless Vern takes a step too far. Rosalie too could probably take a more active role, staff and region leadership has grown used to unquestioningly taking orders from her over the past 20 years and I doubt that her losing her title can do anything to change that.
In the end, Vern might make TWI a more appealing place for those born into it and cut the red tape for recruits, but TWI will always have to face the challenge of Google. The dark stories of TWI's past are only a click away, and if you don't want to take the time to read, there's even a couple of podcast episodes you can listen to. Any real reform would require addressing TWI's sketchy past, and judging by his letter and those who are overseeing him, I don't think he has the luxury or the personal willingness to do that. So like Gorbachev, he is in the impossible position of reforming a system that was broke from the very beginning.
that stuff about TWI's stagnation, shrinkage and Vern's "impossible position of reforming a system that was broke from the very beginning" makes sense - good post!
The word figurehead again comes to mind…“In politics, a figurehead is a person who de jure (in name or by law) appears to hold an important and often supremely powerful title or office, yet de facto (in reality) exercises little to no actual power. This usually means that they are head of state, but not head of government. The metaphor derives from the carved figurehead at the prow of a sailing ship…The word can also have more sinister overtones, and refer to a powerful leader, who should be exercising full authority, who is actually being controlled by a more powerful figure behind the throne.” (from Wikipedia - figurehead )
Another word for figurehead is frontman - a person who represents an organization and works to make its image more appealing to the public.
I left ages ago so I’m so out of touch with what’s going on in TWI and what the predominant mood is of most folks right now – the only thing I can possibly relate it to is the general air of malaise after Chris G’s passing-of-a-patriarch-$hit-hitting-the-fan back in ’86 – which I think may have been the first major glitch in an already faulty system.
A good frontman is always important to pacifying any turmoil in an exploitative cult – as long as the organization itself is not called into question – just keep selling the idea that “The Way is a unique venture in the study and practical application of the Bible. We are dedicated to setting before people the astonishing accuracy and practicality of God’s Word and letting people decide for themselves whether or not to believe it or use it.” ( from TWI's website )
The Way International has always been a tyranny of deceptive and manipulative hypocrites. Perhaps one of the biggest lies I bought into when I first joined was the idea that I could take full control of my life through things like the power of believing and mastering PFAL. There is very little accuracy found in TWI’s scripture twisting and stuff like magical thinking or believing is about as practical as a hamster wheel for a means of transportation. That added up to years of frustration for me. I understood from PFAL that I should have all this power but somehow didn’t manifest it. I think that frustration – that lack of such a supposedly powerful means of control - is what kept me suckered me in for so long – don't know if it was along the lines of a gambler's fallacy - I figured sooner or later it would all click - I'd break my losing streak and hit the jackpot of what PFAL promised. I always thought wierwille and other top leadership had it so together - that's why I followed them - I felt they had what I lacked.
…now stay with me on this…
I found this article on why people follow tyrants – and I think it relates not only to cult leaders – but why people go along with the tyranny of deceptive and manipulative organizations too…I don’t think Vern looks at Grease Spot…I don’t know maybe he peeks at it occasionally…so anyway – this is for the new figurehead…frontman of TWI…and to all the sales reps who sell snake oil:
"When people feel a lack of control in their own lives, they turn to fantasy figures or escapist outlets to regain a sense of power and ego strength. Sometimes they turn to religion and its all-powerful idealized figures, but more often, they turn to figureheads in their lives, be it celebrities, idols, and people who possess charisma and strength. These charismatic types are masters of outward confidence, self-assuredness, which is reassuring and infectious for those who feel unsteady or insecure in themselves. When your relationship, economic situation, or happiness appears to be breaking down, it’s the allure of the person who seems to have it all together that draws you in and makes you hope for the same, even if it’s a phony promise." ( from Psychology Today - why do people follow tyrants )
Oh Waysider. Your final paragraph... If Ii posted what I really want to say, it'd be kicked off for being political. Let's just say, the forthcoming US elections present an opportunity for change.
TWI will always have to face the challenge of Google
It was Google that rescued me, in a way, from TWI. I was desperately miserable and felt I had no alternative but to crawl across broken glass and grovel at TWI's feet. Needed their zip code to address my letter correctly. First item when I searched for TWI was GreaseSpot Cafe. Hmm, interesting name... what's this all about?
I wanted to hear more and think through a good response to what is going on before I posted something here about whose calling the shots in the Way, but this is what I think is going on:
Vern's current role in the Way is similar to that of Gorbachev's in the Soviet Union.
The story starts with the state of the Way in the 2000's: its still significant assets have been depreciating, and it shows. TWI has been destroying buildings and selling property that it doesn't have the resources to maintain. The Way had been creeping along, but its stagnation wasn't of any critical concern, until 2017.
In 2017, Revival and Restoration comes along. As tough as TWI wanted to be with R&R, it was not as invincible as it made itself out to be. The M&As of various state and region coordinators took a toll on TWI. The number of followers in the US had always been small, but in the wake of R&R, TWI's numbers had become unsustainably small and so did the ABS inflows.
The initial solution from leadership was simple: MORE WITNESSING. Way of the USA (Trunk Office) lit a fire under every follower to go out witnessing more, but the reaction from the rank and file followers was mixed and only the most devout answered the call. Even with more people walking around malls and knocking on doors, the results were poor. Thanks to the combined forces of the cold and bureaucratic rules about classes, and Google, TWI found little success recruiting more followers. I don't know what the plan with JYDL was, maybe to better connect with TWI's large francophone following from West Africa, but that seemed to take a lesser priority to increasing ABS for whoever was in charge. In the end, JYDL played the role of the scapegoat for TWI's under-performance (although even among the most devout, you will hear whispers that Rosalie should have retired earlier, so I don't know if anyone actually believes that).
Enter Vern. By now, Rosalie had seen the writing on the wall and that TWI couldn't keep doing what it had been doing for at least the past 20 years and was at least willing to delegate. I think Vern will actually make changes in how things are done on staff and in the field. He has the power to do so. The other BOD members don't live on grounds and I suspect have little sway outside their at most quarterly meetings. Donna and the Secretary Treasurer (who I think is her sister) will keep their eyes on Vern and the ABS inflows, but I don't think they will get involved in daily decision making unless Vern takes a step too far. Rosalie too could probably take a more active role, staff and region leadership has grown used to unquestioningly taking orders from her over the past 20 years and I doubt that her losing her title can do anything to change that.
In the end, Vern might make TWI a more appealing place for those born into it and cut the red tape for recruits, but TWI will always have to face the challenge of Google. The dark stories of TWI's past are only a click away, and if you don't want to take the time to read, there's even a couple of podcast episodes you can listen to. Any real reform would require addressing TWI's sketchy past, and judging by his letter and those who are overseeing him, I don't think he has the luxury or the personal willingness to do that. So like Gorbachev, he is in the impossible position of reforming a system that was broke from the very beginning.
Thanks rubina.
When their only tool is a hammer.....every solution looks like a nail.
As a limb coordinator back in 1992-1998.......I had to fill out monthly reports of 1) Number of new people witnessed to, 2) Number of new people who attended twi that month, and 3) Number of pfal signups. Even back then, people did NOT want to go witnessing and the number of new people attending twig or signing up for pfal was dismal. Yeah, some 25 years ago......it became grueling to promote twi's condescending classes.
With Waydale and its successor, GreaseSpot grabbing clicks and eyeballs for all to see what lies hidden in this cornfield cult.......I have long suspected that twi was hemorrhaging badly. This "death by a thousand cuts" has been taking place for a long, long time........but these internet sites have added the long spears to document the details.
When Martindale was ousted.......6 or 7 region coordinators hit the exit doors in 2000, 2001.
Rosalie's micro-management came to the fore........and bristled more corps leaders. Panarellos left.
For years, there was a parade of vice-presidents passing thru the halls of the OSC.
More and more corps saw the writings on the wall. Many states did NOT have limb coordinators.
The annual advanced class was not filling up. Corps signups per year hit the single digits.
Reportedly, 150 way corps exited between 2007-2017. Then, the R&R movement and purge.
Corps Coordinators Dissent......Magnellis, Moynihans, Horneys, and Forts. The gloves are off!!!
So yeah.........when you treat people as disposable, they leave and take their money with them.
Things in the USA have changed dramatically since these corps graduated from the training program back in 1974-1986. Marriage. Kids. Grandkids. Homeownership or rental rates rising. Need to buy healthcare insurance. Retirement savings? Health issues? How did twi treat others with health issues in the latter stages of life? And then...... seeing that Craig Martindale got a $65,000 pension per year from twi. Does Rosalie get a $65,000 pension per year? Will Donna get this same pension plan?
Some corps have served in 4, 5 or 6 different states thru the years. Moving each time at their expense. Running classes night after night. Witnessing in malls, coffee shops, laundry mats and parks. If staffers at hq get access to pension plans, then why do field corps get left out? Who was faithful to serve? Who decides? Why are the field corps, the ones who do the outreach, treated substandard? Does God look more favorably on those who serve at headquarters? Don't you see Rosalie and Donna.......the corps SEE the double-standards, the hypocrisy of your ways. The corps are NOT kids anymore.
Isn't a workman worthy of his hire? Well......you assigned them a task to accomplish. You sent them forth.
There are many, many reasons why corps grads have been exiting twi for the past 40 years!!!!!
Those corps, ages 60-70 years old........most likely, wanted to be counted among the faithful AND retire in dignity. But Rosalie would NOT let them. She kept giving them assignments. She kept pushing. She kept demanding that they do more. The place was like a powder keg of grievances and tensions. Rosalie kept pounding with her hammer.......not realizing what was about to befall twi. And then, it happened. Dozens and dozens of "big-name" corps finally exited.
I do not think that Rosalie and Donna really realize what they've done.
The perception of twi as this "Household of God" is totally debunked. Every empty seat in the auditorium screams out twi's hypocrisy and deception. With every passing year...... I am SO THANKFUL that I left twi 22 years ago.
Things in the USA have changed dramatically since these corps graduated from the training program back in 1974-1986. Marriage. Kids. Grandkids. Homeownership or rental rates rising. Need to buy healthcare insurance. Retirement savings? Health issues? How did twi treat others with health issues in the latter stages of life? And then...... seeing that Craig Martindale got a $65,000 pension per year from twi. Does Rosalie get a $65,000 pension per year?Will Donna get this same pension plan?
Imagine.........sending in weekly abundant sharing from your hard-earned money and it goes to help fund craig martindale's retirement?
Ummm...........might want to think that one through some more. Why was he ousted? What lawsuits did he settle out-of-court?
I think you bring up a good point about the HQ-field divide. I believe only a small portion of the already small number of recent Way Corps grads actually go out into the field. I also think you are dead on when it comes to the age and state of the field corp. Another indicator is that the majority of region coordinators used to be reverends, but by now they've lost so many reverends that they don't have enough to fill all these spots with them.
It may have been another driving reason why they put Vern, a man who has spent the vast majority of his time in the field, in the driver's seat. Even if they are mostly concerned about the money, they need someone who can straighten the field back out so the money will keep coming in.
5 hours ago, skyrider said:
As a limb coordinator back in 1992-1998.......I had to fill out monthly reports of 1) Number of new people witnessed to, 2) Number of new people who attended twi that month, and 3) Number of pfal signups. Even back then, people did NOT want to go witnessing and the number of new people attending twig or signing up for pfal was dismal. Yeah, some 25 years ago......it became grueling to promote twi's condescending classes.
Things in the USA have changed dramatically since these corps graduated from the training program back in 1974-1986. Marriage. Kids. Grandkids. Homeownership or rental rates rising. Need to buy healthcare insurance. Retirement savings? Health issues? How did twi treat others with health issues in the latter stages of life? And then...... seeing that Craig Martindale got a $65,000 pension per year from twi. Does Rosalie get a $65,000 pension per year? Will Donna get this same pension plan?
Those corps, ages 60-70 years old........most likely, wanted to be counted among the faithful AND retire in dignity.
I don't know what paperwork they are given, but I remember being told by my fellowship coordinators a year or two ago that we had to report back to them when we had spoken to a coworker about some recent topic we heard a teaching on. This kind of strikes me as being some initiative from the top. I kind of feel bad for them because I don't think anybody did it and they were likely given a judgmental silent treatment (Rosalie's replacement for LCM era face meltings) by their leadership.
I think you bring up a good point about the HQ-field divide.
.......
The way corps on the field, with strong support from advanced class grads..........is the driving force of outreach. They should be treated with respect and admiration for their commitment and perseverance to fight thru the onslaught of challenges in reaching others. All the hours of witnessing......and follow-up......and setting up rooms to run classes. After working all day, corps and advanced class grads attend nightly twigs, or classes.......week after week, year after year.
Is it any wonder why the field corps grow weary and quit? Not only do they receive very little thanks..........they are constantly confronted to do MORE WITNESSING. The central driving message from hq is 1) Give Money and 2) Witness, Witness, Witness. Yet, The Way International doesn't want to spend ministry dollars for room rentals, field events or limb meetings. Do they have any idea how challenging this is in today's world? Maybe, in the late 70s.....there was more community/library/legion hall rooms for free. But those days are over.
It costs TIME and MONEY to reach others.....and run classes.
The Way International is still operating like its 1978........and it ain't. Life has moved on. Those 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th corps are NO LONGER YOUNG, ZEALOUS, CORPS. Many are struggling with expenses and very concerned about retirement issues and health concerns. For those who've built very little equity....... what are they going to do? What if they live to be 92? Who is going to be there to take care of them? No pension. No savings? Jumping from hourly-waged jobs year after year doesn't amount to much, does it? Someday......a small social security check in the mail.....maybe.
I think you bring up a good point about the HQ-field divide. I believe only a small portion of the already small number of recent Way Corps grads actually go out into the field. I also think you are dead on when it comes to the age and state of the field corp. Another indicator is that the majority of region coordinators used to be reverends, but by now they've lost so many reverends that they don't have enough to fill all these spots with them.
Why are there so many "reverends" at hq.......and not on the field?
Even during the wierwille era, there were all kinds of reverends at hq:
Reverends on security and carry guns
Reverends who worked on way magazine
Reverends who worked in kitchen detail
Reverends who oversaw grounds crews
Reverends who worked in purchasing
Reverends who worked in photography
Reverends who worked in Divine Design
Reverends who worked in Way Builders
Etc.
At headquarters......no one went witnessing. No one attended Tues night twig or Friday night twig. You did your job and went home. Sure, some worked extra hours or even a few Saturday mornings........but no weekend classes like on the field. Some of those R&R guys were at hq or on payroll for 30-35 years
Why do I get this mind picture of that movie "Hunger Games" and its Capital City? All the fanfare and activity a-buzzing at the Capital (wierwille's headquarters).......while those out in District 5 are working in the coal mines and District 6 are working on the farms. The slave-labor feeds the Capital.
Why are there so many "reverends" at hq.......and not on the field?
Even during the wierwille era, there were all kinds of reverends at hq:
Reverends on security and carry guns
Reverends who worked on way magazine
Reverends who worked in kitchen detail
Reverends who oversaw grounds crews
Reverends who worked in purchasing
Reverends who worked in photography
Reverends who worked in Divine Design
Reverends who worked in Way Builders
Etc.
At headquarters......no one went witnessing. No one attended Tues night twig or Friday night twig. You did your job and went home. Sure, some worked extra hours or even a few Saturday mornings........but no weekend classes like on the field. Some of those R&R guys were at hq or on payroll for 30-35 years
Why do I get this mind picture of that movie "Hunger Games" and its Capital City? All the fanfare and activity a-buzzing at the Capital (wierwille's headquarters).......while those out in District 5 are working in the coal mines and District 6 are working on the farms.
The slave-labor feeds the Capital.
Interesting observation…back in my day within the ministry’s caste system - I always thought of TWI-ordained clergy as the spiritual mainstays and heavyweights of the ministry – I was never ordained myself, btw…now it’s kind of appalling and dismal to hear you talk of TWI-clergy at HQ as nothing more than a slave-labor force…I mean, it makes sense what you said. I also imagine there is probably a lot of pressure to lead by example the rest of the workforce (non-clergy) at HQ.
A little off-topic – but sort of related…and sorry if I’m mischaracterizing any clergy…I do believe there are certain women and men who have a calling…gifts…and that they may not necessarily have a “Reverend” in front of their name…I also knew of some very ambitious people – corporate types, who play the game, who like to make sure others toe the line – who craved status and recognition…so - - I tend to think TWI had nothing in place ordination-wise to weed out the wannabes from the truly gifted – but I’m interested in what you or other folks know or think…back to your main point – whether someone is gifted or not - HQ has got to be the exploitation capital of The Way International.
A little off-topic – but sort of related…and sorry if I’m mischaracterizing any clergy…I do believe there are certain women and men who have a calling…gifts…and that they may not necessarily have a “Reverend” in front of their name…I also knew of some very ambitious people – corporate types, who play the game, who like to make sure others toe the line – who craved status and recognition…so - - I tend to think TWI had nothing in place ordination-wise to weed out the wannabes from the truly gifted – but I’m interested in what you or other folks know or think…back to your main point – whether someone is gifted or not - HQ has got to be the exploitation capital of The Way International.
I don't think it was to do with any particular calling - like being really good at pastoral care! - more with biddability and willingness to toe the party line. Think of "Rev" as being a synonym for "manager" or "officer in charge" rather than a recognition of their spirituality.
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penworks
As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Neverthele
JavaJane
Been there and done that. It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online. And then a couple years after that before I realized God was
skyrider
Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980?
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skyrider
Sorry to disappoint any expectations...............but TWI is NOT going to dissolve.
When wierwille was president.....if he would have been exposed, then it could have been dissolved (maybe).
I tend to think.......if the cult leader went down in flames, then the cult died. But NOW, the system is the cult. Much like Scientology that gives unbridled adulation to L. Ron Hubbard......the cult feeds off the 1) attaining spiritual enlightenment, 2) the mystique of the founder and 3)mysticism. No one is going to be idolizing Vern Edwards or Donna Martindale......they are merely figureheads that help the system keep the "railroad" running.
Vern will be micro-managed. Rupp will be critiqued. But Donna......she is the one in authority and no blame will come to her door. When there are failures and mistakes...... Donna will step in and confront it. Easy-peasy. She is beyond reproach. She is the "shadow governance" over the cult.
The evolution is complete.
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Twinky
Not sure about this. The evolution would be complete if some of the Wierwille kids came back to head up TWI. But they haven't, and won't. Too busy with CFFM, which has taken a different track from TWI.
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T-Bone
You sound like one of those suppressive persons Scientology warned about ....just kidding
I think you’re right…it’s sickening to think that wierwille is now immortalized by some for whatever whitewashed and/or delusional reasons.
Edited by T-Bonerevision
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skyrider
T-Bone..........wheels, within wheels. I like that.
I, too, like exploring how twi institutionalized social controls. When I finally took off the rose-colored glasses and focused on wierwille's life and twi......it became clear that it was "wheels and wheels" of deception. The 1942 bogus beginning of twi. The Van Wert Church Board unanimously striking wierwille's name from their clergy registry. The undeniable fact that wierwille stole Leonard's class! And then......10 years of pathetic results even though wierwille was traveling up and down the highway.
I cannot name one thing wierwille did where I'd call it the power of God. Not one!
Wierwille died at 68.
Ermal died at 69.
Harry died at 70.
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Twinky
I think we can only say, thank God that they didn't all have another 20 or more years so that they could continue to abuse innocent God-searchers.
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Rocky
Not sure Ermal was an abuser. An enabler of Wierwille, sure, but I don't know that his reputation included abusing people.
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penworks
I think we all know that my idea is a dream, for now. Donna is in the hot seat. But she'll do what Rosalie says. I knew them back in the day. Sigh ... I remember Donna in the olden days, when she was a "secretary" on staff, and I was in my second year of the Corps. She was totally loyal even then. And then went in the 4th Corps. For many early Corps, the loyalty was planted so deeply they'll never root it out of themselves. I don't really have much hope for The Way going bye bye any time soon, at least in name.
Added note: by "loyalty" in her case, I mean sticking with VPW's legacy no matter what.
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skyrider
Donna Lombardi Martindale and Rosalie F. Shumate [link] are two sides of the same coin.
Notice the pattern......arrive at twi's headquarters, a "secretary" on staff, a loyalist, an opportunist, go corps, stay on payroll, minimal time on field and yearning to be at the cult compound, marry, divorce, stay at hq. Connections, baby! The inner-sanctum club. A former trunk leader posted his knowledge of Rosie's and Donna's sexual activities with other corps men and even wierwille. Read the link.
Sticking with VPW's legacy is nothing more that riding his coattails.....i.e. the gravy train. Thru decades of exploitation, twi has amassed some $68 Million and guards their investments, and its accruements, with beady-eyes. Think Mr. Scrooge and the Christmas Carol. Decades and decades of staffers were paid "according to their need"......and since they lived on grounds in floppy trailers or founders hall and ate in twi's cafeteria, they needed very little. Corps and staff bought into the martyrdom complex of twi's subtle power of spiritual abuse. They count themselves in the Halls of the Faithful. Ugh.
Add Marcia Faulk Greene into the mix. When Rosalie summoned Bill and Marcia back to headquarters, she accomplished two things: 1) With Bill Greene on the Board of Directors to guard her flank, Rosalie was given more time to adjust the pieces of the chessboard, and 2) Marcia Greene is a longtime friend and "buds" with the girls.
How many times will Donna, Rosalie and Marcia slip away for fine dining and shopping sprees?
How many times will Donna be able to phone in her marching orders.......while out and about with Rosalie?
How many hours will Donna need to work each week for all those perks, pay and privileges of ceo.........10 hours? 20 hours?
The CEO gig AND time with the girls......whoohoo.
P.S. Just adding to Penwork's post. She knows all this stuff well and I'm not suggesting for her to read the link. Penworks wrote a book on the cult's fundamentalist views and how they abused and exploited their followers.
Edited by skyrideradding the P.S.
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Rejoice
Considering she has never held a REAL job, this is just laughable.
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waysider
I was under the impression she had been an English teacher at one time.
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Rocky
Wasn't that Rosie?
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rubina
I wanted to hear more and think through a good response to what is going on before I posted something here about whose calling the shots in the Way, but this is what I think is going on:
Vern's current role in the Way is similar to that of Gorbachev's in the Soviet Union.
The story starts with the state of the Way in the 2000's: its still significant assets have been depreciating, and it shows. TWI has been destroying buildings and selling property that it doesn't have the resources to maintain. The Way had been creeping along, but its stagnation wasn't of any critical concern, until 2017.
In 2017, Revival and Restoration comes along. As tough as TWI wanted to be with R&R, it was not as invincible as it made itself out to be. The M&As of various state and region coordinators took a toll on TWI. The number of followers in the US had always been small, but in the wake of R&R, TWI's numbers had become unsustainably small and so did the ABS inflows.
The initial solution from leadership was simple: MORE WITNESSING. Way of the USA (Trunk Office) lit a fire under every follower to go out witnessing more, but the reaction from the rank and file followers was mixed and only the most devout answered the call. Even with more people walking around malls and knocking on doors, the results were poor. Thanks to the combined forces of the cold and bureaucratic rules about classes, and Google, TWI found little success recruiting more followers. I don't know what the plan with JYDL was, maybe to better connect with TWI's large francophone following from West Africa, but that seemed to take a lesser priority to increasing ABS for whoever was in charge. In the end, JYDL played the role of the scapegoat for TWI's under-performance (although even among the most devout, you will hear whispers that Rosalie should have retired earlier, so I don't know if anyone actually believes that).
Enter Vern. By now, Rosalie had seen the writing on the wall and that TWI couldn't keep doing what it had been doing for at least the past 20 years and was at least willing to delegate. I think Vern will actually make changes in how things are done on staff and in the field. He has the power to do so. The other BOD members don't live on grounds and I suspect have little sway outside their at most quarterly meetings. Donna and the Secretary Treasurer (who I think is her sister) will keep their eyes on Vern and the ABS inflows, but I don't think they will get involved in daily decision making unless Vern takes a step too far. Rosalie too could probably take a more active role, staff and region leadership has grown used to unquestioningly taking orders from her over the past 20 years and I doubt that her losing her title can do anything to change that.
In the end, Vern might make TWI a more appealing place for those born into it and cut the red tape for recruits, but TWI will always have to face the challenge of Google. The dark stories of TWI's past are only a click away, and if you don't want to take the time to read, there's even a couple of podcast episodes you can listen to. Any real reform would require addressing TWI's sketchy past, and judging by his letter and those who are overseeing him, I don't think he has the luxury or the personal willingness to do that. So like Gorbachev, he is in the impossible position of reforming a system that was broke from the very beginning.
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T-Bone
Thanks Rubina,
that stuff about TWI's stagnation, shrinkage and Vern's "impossible position of reforming a system that was broke from the very beginning" makes sense - good post!
The word figurehead again comes to mind…“In politics, a figurehead is a person who de jure (in name or by law) appears to hold an important and often supremely powerful title or office, yet de facto (in reality) exercises little to no actual power. This usually means that they are head of state, but not head of government. The metaphor derives from the carved figurehead at the prow of a sailing ship…The word can also have more sinister overtones, and refer to a powerful leader, who should be exercising full authority, who is actually being controlled by a more powerful figure behind the throne.” (from Wikipedia - figurehead )
Another word for figurehead is frontman - a person who represents an organization and works to make its image more appealing to the public.
I left ages ago so I’m so out of touch with what’s going on in TWI and what the predominant mood is of most folks right now – the only thing I can possibly relate it to is the general air of malaise after Chris G’s passing-of-a-patriarch-$hit-hitting-the-fan back in ’86 – which I think may have been the first major glitch in an already faulty system.
A good frontman is always important to pacifying any turmoil in an exploitative cult – as long as the organization itself is not called into question – just keep selling the idea that “The Way is a unique venture in the study and practical application of the Bible. We are dedicated to setting before people the astonishing accuracy and practicality of God’s Word and letting people decide for themselves whether or not to believe it or use it.” ( from TWI's website )
The Way International has always been a tyranny of deceptive and manipulative hypocrites. Perhaps one of the biggest lies I bought into when I first joined was the idea that I could take full control of my life through things like the power of believing and mastering PFAL. There is very little accuracy found in TWI’s scripture twisting and stuff like magical thinking or believing is about as practical as a hamster wheel for a means of transportation. That added up to years of frustration for me. I understood from PFAL that I should have all this power but somehow didn’t manifest it. I think that frustration – that lack of such a supposedly powerful means of control - is what kept me suckered me in for so long – don't know if it was along the lines of a gambler's fallacy - I figured sooner or later it would all click - I'd break my losing streak and hit the jackpot of what PFAL promised. I always thought wierwille and other top leadership had it so together - that's why I followed them - I felt they had what I lacked.
…now stay with me on this…
I found this article on why people follow tyrants – and I think it relates not only to cult leaders – but why people go along with the tyranny of deceptive and manipulative organizations too…I don’t think Vern looks at Grease Spot…I don’t know maybe he peeks at it occasionally…so anyway – this is for the new figurehead…frontman of TWI…and to all the sales reps who sell snake oil:
"When people feel a lack of control in their own lives, they turn to fantasy figures or escapist outlets to regain a sense of power and ego strength. Sometimes they turn to religion and its all-powerful idealized figures, but more often, they turn to figureheads in their lives, be it celebrities, idols, and people who possess charisma and strength. These charismatic types are masters of outward confidence, self-assuredness, which is reassuring and infectious for those who feel unsteady or insecure in themselves. When your relationship, economic situation, or happiness appears to be breaking down, it’s the allure of the person who seems to have it all together that draws you in and makes you hope for the same, even if it’s a phony promise." ( from Psychology Today - why do people follow tyrants )
Edited by T-Bonerevision
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waysider
Yeah, you're right. Not sure what I was thinking.
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Twinky
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Twinky
Good post, rubina.
It was Google that rescued me, in a way, from TWI. I was desperately miserable and felt I had no alternative but to crawl across broken glass and grovel at TWI's feet. Needed their zip code to address my letter correctly. First item when I searched for TWI was GreaseSpot Cafe. Hmm, interesting name... what's this all about?
My letter to TWI never got posted.
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skyrider
Thanks rubina.
When their only tool is a hammer.....every solution looks like a nail.
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skyrider
As a limb coordinator back in 1992-1998.......I had to fill out monthly reports of 1) Number of new people witnessed to, 2) Number of new people who attended twi that month, and 3) Number of pfal signups. Even back then, people did NOT want to go witnessing and the number of new people attending twig or signing up for pfal was dismal. Yeah, some 25 years ago......it became grueling to promote twi's condescending classes.
With Waydale and its successor, GreaseSpot grabbing clicks and eyeballs for all to see what lies hidden in this cornfield cult.......I have long suspected that twi was hemorrhaging badly. This "death by a thousand cuts" has been taking place for a long, long time........but these internet sites have added the long spears to document the details.
Things in the USA have changed dramatically since these corps graduated from the training program back in 1974-1986. Marriage. Kids. Grandkids. Homeownership or rental rates rising. Need to buy healthcare insurance. Retirement savings? Health issues? How did twi treat others with health issues in the latter stages of life? And then...... seeing that Craig Martindale got a $65,000 pension per year from twi. Does Rosalie get a $65,000 pension per year? Will Donna get this same pension plan?
Some corps have served in 4, 5 or 6 different states thru the years. Moving each time at their expense. Running classes night after night. Witnessing in malls, coffee shops, laundry mats and parks. If staffers at hq get access to pension plans, then why do field corps get left out? Who was faithful to serve? Who decides? Why are the field corps, the ones who do the outreach, treated substandard? Does God look more favorably on those who serve at headquarters? Don't you see Rosalie and Donna.......the corps SEE the double-standards, the hypocrisy of your ways. The corps are NOT kids anymore.
Isn't a workman worthy of his hire? Well......you assigned them a task to accomplish. You sent them forth.
There are many, many reasons why corps grads have been exiting twi for the past 40 years!!!!!
Those corps, ages 60-70 years old........most likely, wanted to be counted among the faithful AND retire in dignity. But Rosalie would NOT let them. She kept giving them assignments. She kept pushing. She kept demanding that they do more. The place was like a powder keg of grievances and tensions. Rosalie kept pounding with her hammer.......not realizing what was about to befall twi. And then, it happened. Dozens and dozens of "big-name" corps finally exited.
I do not think that Rosalie and Donna really realize what they've done.
The perception of twi as this "Household of God" is totally debunked. Every empty seat in the auditorium screams out twi's hypocrisy and deception. With every passing year...... I am SO THANKFUL that I left twi 22 years ago.
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skyrider
Imagine.........sending in weekly abundant sharing from your hard-earned money and it goes to help fund craig martindale's retirement?
Ummm...........might want to think that one through some more. Why was he ousted? What lawsuits did he settle out-of-court?
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rubina
I think you bring up a good point about the HQ-field divide. I believe only a small portion of the already small number of recent Way Corps grads actually go out into the field. I also think you are dead on when it comes to the age and state of the field corp. Another indicator is that the majority of region coordinators used to be reverends, but by now they've lost so many reverends that they don't have enough to fill all these spots with them.
It may have been another driving reason why they put Vern, a man who has spent the vast majority of his time in the field, in the driver's seat. Even if they are mostly concerned about the money, they need someone who can straighten the field back out so the money will keep coming in.
I don't know what paperwork they are given, but I remember being told by my fellowship coordinators a year or two ago that we had to report back to them when we had spoken to a coworker about some recent topic we heard a teaching on. This kind of strikes me as being some initiative from the top. I kind of feel bad for them because I don't think anybody did it and they were likely given a judgmental silent treatment (Rosalie's replacement for LCM era face meltings) by their leadership.
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skyrider
The way corps on the field, with strong support from advanced class grads..........is the driving force of outreach. They should be treated with respect and admiration for their commitment and perseverance to fight thru the onslaught of challenges in reaching others. All the hours of witnessing......and follow-up......and setting up rooms to run classes. After working all day, corps and advanced class grads attend nightly twigs, or classes.......week after week, year after year.
Is it any wonder why the field corps grow weary and quit? Not only do they receive very little thanks..........they are constantly confronted to do MORE WITNESSING. The central driving message from hq is 1) Give Money and 2) Witness, Witness, Witness. Yet, The Way International doesn't want to spend ministry dollars for room rentals, field events or limb meetings. Do they have any idea how challenging this is in today's world? Maybe, in the late 70s.....there was more community/library/legion hall rooms for free. But those days are over.
It costs TIME and MONEY to reach others.....and run classes.
The Way International is still operating like its 1978........and it ain't. Life has moved on. Those 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th corps are NO LONGER YOUNG, ZEALOUS, CORPS. Many are struggling with expenses and very concerned about retirement issues and health concerns. For those who've built very little equity....... what are they going to do? What if they live to be 92? Who is going to be there to take care of them? No pension. No savings? Jumping from hourly-waged jobs year after year doesn't amount to much, does it? Someday......a small social security check in the mail.....maybe.
What a legacy twi is leaving.........
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skyrider
Why are there so many "reverends" at hq.......and not on the field?
Even during the wierwille era, there were all kinds of reverends at hq:
At headquarters......no one went witnessing. No one attended Tues night twig or Friday night twig. You did your job and went home. Sure, some worked extra hours or even a few Saturday mornings........but no weekend classes like on the field. Some of those R&R guys were at hq or on payroll for 30-35 years
Why do I get this mind picture of that movie "Hunger Games" and its Capital City? All the fanfare and activity a-buzzing at the Capital (wierwille's headquarters).......while those out in District 5 are working in the coal mines and District 6 are working on the farms. The slave-labor feeds the Capital.
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T-Bone
Interesting observation…back in my day within the ministry’s caste system - I always thought of TWI-ordained clergy as the spiritual mainstays and heavyweights of the ministry – I was never ordained myself, btw…now it’s kind of appalling and dismal to hear you talk of TWI-clergy at HQ as nothing more than a slave-labor force…I mean, it makes sense what you said. I also imagine there is probably a lot of pressure to lead by example the rest of the workforce (non-clergy) at HQ.
A little off-topic – but sort of related…and sorry if I’m mischaracterizing any clergy…I do believe there are certain women and men who have a calling…gifts…and that they may not necessarily have a “Reverend” in front of their name…I also knew of some very ambitious people – corporate types, who play the game, who like to make sure others toe the line – who craved status and recognition…so - - I tend to think TWI had nothing in place ordination-wise to weed out the wannabes from the truly gifted – but I’m interested in what you or other folks know or think…back to your main point – whether someone is gifted or not - HQ has got to be the exploitation capital of The Way International.
Edited by T-Boneformatting
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Twinky
I don't think it was to do with any particular calling - like being really good at pastoral care! - more with biddability and willingness to toe the party line. Think of "Rev" as being a synonym for "manager" or "officer in charge" rather than a recognition of their spirituality.
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