Once in the upper level of the Wierwille Library (You know, the library that had NO BOOKS), I attended a meeting where a Way leader was teaching that we, as Way Corps, were called to lead God's people from darkness into light. In order to do this, we were to use our brains to see things differently than "the world" sees them.
In order to illustrate his point, the teacher drew three rows of three dots on a black board and asked us to connect all 9 dots using only 4 straight lines without lifting the pen from the paper.
Of course, the only way it can be done is to extend the lines and go outside the "box" the 9 dots appear to make. Most people are fooled by the three rows of three dots, and think only of how to solve the puzzle by staying within the box.
Most people, said the speaker, only think of solutions within the confines of what they can understand with their 5 senses. We, the Corps, were to "go outside the 9 dots," or outside the 5 senses to the Word of God (read rules and regulations and "spiritual principles" laid down by the ministry) in order to be successful leaders and successful believers.
We all immediately understood. We had options that "the natural man" did not have: the "spiritual senses" of being led by the spirit, the written Word of God (as taught by leadership), and direction from the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers that "God" (read the BOT) had set in our midst.
However, what The Way International did for us was to lay down their own "Nine Dots of Nonsense" beyond which followers refuse to look.
Way followers are so programmed to stay within the boundaries of what their leaders have taught them is the truth, that they refuse to consider there are options for them OUTSIDE the boundaries of what they have been taught.
Way Followers are taught that "No one else out there has the rightly-divided Word." Followers have been convinced and reinforce with each other and themselves that "there's nothing else out there." They are convinced that they are in God's only TRUE ministry and that anything else is second-rate and counterfeit.
Way followers have been taught, convince each other, and themselves, that those in leadership positions above them have been placed there by God. That even though they are human and therefore flawed, followers are still required to be obedient without question according to "The Word." TWI teaches that because God saw fit to choose them and set them where they are, so they should be obeyed without question.
Way followers have been taught, convinced, and reinforce with each other and themselves, that these "gift ministries" are there for our benefit, and for us to obey, because "The Word Says" that they "bear not the sword in vain."
In other words, there are consequences for disobedience. When we "obey" these leaders, we "grow up into Him," so of course, we all want to grow up into Christ and avoid the wrath of the minister, so we all obey, without question.
Questions from the very beginning in TWI are not allowed. Well, lets say, certain questions. You will know what is allowed and not allowed by the response you get in asking.
If questions are likely to contradict established teaching, or delve into matters TWI doesn't want to discuss, they are deferred to leadership or answered with another question to deflect attention away from glaring errors or contradictions. Persistence along this vein will get you the bum's rush or worse.
Followers are taught specifically about "spiritual boundaries" and staying on the "right path," or "highway of holiness" in order to remain in God's favor and out of harm's way. This pathway is understood to be staying within the teachings of The Way International and the guidance of it's ministers.
Followers are convinced, reinforce it with each other, and reinforce with themselves through classes, teachings, private study, and retemories, that safety is only possible within the boundaries of what they have been taught by their leadership. Followers have been repeatedly taught that the only thing that awaits them outside The Nine Dots Of Nonsense are tragic consequences.
A good Way follower does not question his leadership or the direction which comes from TWI headquarters. This direction is not questioned publicly in meetings, nor is it questioned privately between "good" Way followers, nor does the "good" Way follower even allow himself the luxury of entertaining such a question in his own mind.
He is bound by FEAR to stay within the Nine Dots of Nonsense that TWI has dictated for him, not allowing himself to consider he has options outside the "household of The Way" other than spiritual, physical, emotional, and financial devastation.
Followers of The Way International are bound by FEAR within The Nine Dots Of Nonsense taught by The Way International. But they will never admit it to themselves.
Why? They cannot.
Fear is the believer's only enemy. Fear defeats the promises of God. Fear is believing in reverse. Fear is a spiritual prison. Fear is a devil spirit. Good Way Followers are not allowed to have FEAR.
A good Way Follower simply refuses to look outside those nine dots. He is totally unable to see things other than how The Way International sees them for him.
However, the follower sees all the "freedom" he has to question-- WITHIN THE NINE DOTS
He has all the freedom to think and use his brain-- WITHIN THE NINE DOTS
He has all the abundance and safety God promises-- ONLY WITHIN THE NINE DOTS
Except, WHAT IF he lacks abundance? WHAT IF he lacks health? WHAT IF he finds he is not really safe? WHAT ABOUT the apparent contradictions he sees in the doctrine and practice of the ministry?
He is only allowed to seek answers for those questions WITHIN THE NINE DOTS OF NONSENSE.
While believing he is bringing God's brightest light to the world by witnessing for his ministry, the Good Way Follower is locked into a mindset that holds him captive from being able to see that he is in complete darkness.
If the light you have is darkness, said Jesus, then HOW GREAT IS THAT DARKNESS!
A more-fitting name for the program would have been F.O.L.L.O.W.
Feckless Organization Loses Lives On Watch
The youth put their trust in wierwille and his leaders (cough, cough.....spit) and the corps program failed to watch over their safety.
Alas... there was no way to enforce any "truth in advertising" provision whether it was enshrined in any law or not. I applaud you for the acronym more fairly characterizing the situation.
“…However, what The Way International did for us was to lay down their own "Nine Dots of Nonsense" beyond which followers refuse to look.
Way followers are so programmed to stay within the boundaries of what their leaders have taught them is the truth, that they refuse to consider there are options for them OUTSIDE the boundaries of what they have been taught.
Way Followers are taught that "No one else out there has the rightly-divided Word." Followers have been convinced and reinforce with each other and themselves that "there's nothing else out there." They are convinced that they are in God's only TRUE ministry and that anything else is second-rate and counterfeit…”
thanks so much for quoting Catcup’s post from 2005 – that was before I joined Grease Spot – so I never saw it. That’s why it’s always good to bring up those oldies but goodies every so often…For the past few years I have been copying / pasting into Word docs so many of the great threads on Grease Spot along with the links to them just so I can easily ruminate over the wisdom and truth contained in them at my convenience. Catcup’s thread is now one of those docs on my laptop.
Stuff like this always fascinates me - I am irresistibly drawn to anything that helps me understand the manipulative techniques & impact of con artists, predators, cult leaders, mental & emotional bullies, sleazebags, tyrants – and “lying thieving weasels” (that triad of doom was Don’tWorryBeHappy’s moniker for those TWI a$$holes past & present – you know who you are! ).
(Hi Don'tWorryBeHappy, Tonto and I sure miss you man! hope you're doing well !!! )
Around the time I left TWI I happened to read a book The Closing of the American Mind by Allan Bloom (Bloom was an American philosopher, classicist, and academician – and his book is a critique of the contemporary university and how Bloom saw it as failing its students – which resonates with me seeing the catastrophic failure of the way corps program)…over the years since I’ve read that book – there is this one quote from it that has become almost like a refrain to my once cult-entangled life – and it’s as follows:
Freedom of the mind requires not only, or not even specially, the absence of legal constraints but the presence of alternative thoughts. The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.
Freedom of the mind requires not only, or not even specially, the absence of legal constraints but the presence of alternative thoughts. The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.
Hazzah! Great quote. Thanks for highlighting it.
Here's another Allan Bloom quote:
“The failure to read good books both enfeebles the vision and strengthens our most fatal tendency -- the belief that the here and now is all there is.” ―Allan Bloom, The Closing of the American Mind
“The liberally educated person is one who is able to resist the easy and preferred answers, not because he is obstinate but because he knows others worthy of consideration.” ―Allan Bloom,The Closing of the American Mind
“The real community of man, in the midst of all the self-contradictory simulacra of community, is the community of those who seek the truth, of the potential knowers...of all men to the extent they desire to know. But in fact, this includes only a few, the true friends, as Plato was to Aristotle at the very moment they were disagreeing about the nature of the good...They were absolutely one soul as they looked at the problem. This, according to Plato, is the only real friendship, the only real common good. It is here that the contact people so desperately seek is to be found...This is the meaning of the riddle of the improbable philosopher-kings. They have a true community that is exemplary for all other communities.” ―Allan Bloom,The Closing of the American Mind
At this point, I think it's worth mentioning that it's NOT just TWI that is guilty, but all churches in America, I suspect, are prone to this malady.
By the way, a current discussion taking place in the Matters of Faith/Doctrinal forum on this website conjures in my mind the last quote I listed above. It's SO easy to be dismissive of those with whom we disagree. Perhaps a lingering artifact of waybrain, but active love, wonderment at those with whom one disagrees (which I hope to make a habit) can foster that community and enlarge the lives of people on all sides of such a discussion. That is, even if no one comes to a consensus of mind.
Alas, I don't find this book in the catalog at my local public library... however, it IS on Amazon.
TWI basically focused on PFAL, Intermediate, Advanced and the other classes required before the Advanced Class. That was pretty much it. Focusing on those year after year over and over didn't result in much growth. And we thought we knew more than other Christians. It just went around in circles, becoming more and more stifling as the years went by. No freedom to actually research the Bible and learn new things. There are so many Bible scholars I have discovered and learned from since I left TWI - people who have dedicated their lives to the study of God's Word. And each of them has something unique to offer.
I still apply some things I learned in TWI but that isn't the end all a be all regarding learning and growth.
Even when I was IN twi, I didn't think they knew EVERYTHING, even though I thought they knew better than the rest. I wasn't above learning spot-skills from all sorts of Christians, and I've considered myself an eclectic Christian all along, free to borrow from this and that and not forced to conform to a single style or brand. Granted, I was only in for a few years, and it was in NYC, where there were a lot of mavericks as far as twi went. I do think that, had I stayed for another 5-10 years, the chain would have chafed and I might have left on my own and not just when craig was acting visibly and obviously crazy.
Even when I was IN twi, I didn't think they knew EVERYTHING, even though I thought they knew better than the rest. I wasn't above learning spot-skills from all sorts of Christians, and I've considered myself an eclectic Christian all along, free to borrow from this and that and not forced to conform to a single style or brand. Granted, I was only in for a few years, and it was in NYC, where there were a lot of mavericks as far as twi went. I do think that, had I stayed for another 5-10 years, the chain would have chafed and I might have left on my own and not just when craig was acting visibly and obviously crazy.
As you noted, WW......even when IN twi, I didn't think they knew EVERYTHING.
Because they didn't......
It was obvious that twi was a young ministry trying to find its way in life. Wierwille would "borrow" and tweak from others ALL THE TIME. Whether it was a whole teaching like "The Red Thread" from Oral Roberts or the "Not Ancient Walls" poem he adapted and adopted as the corps poem.
The Blue Songbook contained MANY of the great Christian hymns like......"How Great Thou Art." Some songs contained only a couple of stanzas of the song......but then, certain words were tweaked from twi-consumption. Later, words of songs were changed, but kept the melody. And then, Christmas carols were perverted to the cult doctrine.
Teachings, scripture verses, songs, poems, art, professions, culture........wierwille was tweaking it at every turn. During the building phases 1974-1985.......architects, engineers, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, audio/video personnel, etc. etc. helped to take twi from its patchwork history to the next level. Twi was ALWAYS grasping for the expertise of "the professional world" to help bolster its image.
BUT.......in the last decade of his life, wierwille's narcissism attempted to close ranks.
Followers of The Way International are bound by FEAR within The Nine Dots Of Nonsense taught by The Way International. But they will never admit it to themselves.
Why? They cannot.
Fear is the believer's only enemy. Fear defeats the promises of God. Fear is believing in reverse. Fear is a spiritual prison. Fear is a devil spirit. Good Way Followers are not allowed to have FEAR.
A good Way Follower simply refuses to look outside those nine dots. He is totally unable to see things other than how The Way International sees them for him.
However, the follower sees all the "freedom" he has to question-- WITHIN THE NINE DOTS
He has all the freedom to think and use his brain-- WITHIN THE NINE DOTS
He has all the abundance and safety God promises-- ONLY WITHIN THE NINE DOTS
Except, WHAT IF he lacks abundance? WHAT IF he lacks health? WHAT IF he finds he is not really safe? WHAT ABOUT the apparent contradictions he sees in the doctrine and practice of the ministry?
He is only allowed to seek answers for those questions WITHIN THE NINE DOTS OF NONSENSE.
While believing he is bringing God's brightest light to the world by witnessing for his ministry, the Good Way Follower is locked into a mindset that holds him captive from being able to see that he is in complete darkness.
If the light you have is darkness, said Jesus, then HOW GREAT IS THAT DARKNESS!
This whole episode of twi...........looks, to me, like a damn horse race.
Substitute all kinds of "names for these horses"..........Dr. Wierwille, the law of believing, red drapes, cancer is a devil spirit, copouts, Lo Shanta, etc..........and you get a horse race that no one knows what really "fvcking happened."
Add: Take this with a slice of humor in one hand and a beer in the other.
This whole episode of twi...........looks, to me, like a damn horse race.
Substitute all kinds of "names for these horses"..........Dr. Wierwille, the law of believing, red drapes, cancer is a devil spirit, copouts, Lo Shanta, etc..........and you get a horse race that no one knows what really "fvcking happened."
Add: Take this with a slice of humor in one hand and a beer in the other.
If you ask me, Flatten the Curve was never in the race, even though promoted in the corridors of power from the beginning.
This whole episode of twi...........looks, to me, like a damn horse race.
Substitute all kinds of "names for these horses"..........Dr. Wierwille, the law of believing, red drapes, cancer is a devil spirit, copouts, Lo Shanta, etc..........and you get a horse race that no one knows what really "fvcking happened."
Add: Take this with a slice of humor in one hand and a beer in the other.
That’s so funny Skyrider - thanks for posting!
Taking your horse name substitution a step further – in the race to captivate people’s souls:
And they’re off their rockers right out of the gate - it’s Wierwille’s Snow Job…followed closely in his behind by Twinkle Toes Craig…Critical Mind stumbling out of the gate trying to catch up…Great Fvcking Darkness already hustling for an early lead…from the inside going outside it’s Chris the Bus Driver working hard against Twinkle Toes Craig… Rosie the Racketeer got off to a slow start but she’s now neck and neck with Chris the Bus Driver…moving to the outside it’s Egypt’s Gold followed by Reverends Aplenty…as they pass the quarterly report , Revival & Restoration is working hard to get past Reverends Aplenty and Splinters Galore…they’re moving at a brisk pace all clustered together except for Abundant Sharing and I’m Corps Dammit now lagging way behind…Rosie the Racketeer and Great Fvcking Darkness are still looking strong…with just a forlorn look ahead it’s Rosie the Racketeer and Great Fvcking Darkness, followed by Splinters Galore and Offshoot Yourself in the Foot…as they come down to the wire…oh my God - - it’s Great Fvcking Darkness !
…Skyrider, your comments about subjugation and corps grads needing to have a splinter group leader over their decisions got me thinking about the attachment theory…
Subjugate is the old divide-and-conquer strategy…The interview article below describes the “trifecta of terror, love, and brainwashing as key to cult behavior”:
“People come into cults through a variety of pathways and bring with them a variety of personality types. In addition, many are born into cults. But the one thing that seems to be supported by research is that new followers are more easily recruited when they are at a normal life “blip,” as Margaret Singer put it—if one is between affiliations, such as moving house, going to university, getting married or divorced or breaking up a relationship, experiencing bereavement. A person embarking on such changes may be looking for a new relationship, hobby, religious affiliation, or even a new gym (yes, there are many fitness-based cults). And all such changes can expose a person to a recruitment attempt.
But in my view, the main vulnerability factor is ignorance. A person lacking knowledge of how cults target and recruit people and the mechanisms they use to entrap people may not be able to identify a coercion attempt when targeted."
You identify a trifecta of terror, love, and brainwashing as key to cult behavior. Can you explain the intersection of the three?
“The same dynamic that occurs in domestic violence also applies to cults. First a person is lured to group or person who seemingly shares their interests and concerns. They may then be subject to a kind of love-bombing, given extreme amounts of attention, which can feel flattering and seem the sign of having found a safe place. Then begins an attempt to isolate the person from friends and family. The potential recruit becomes engulfed in a new system and out of touch with their old, known network.
That paves the way for the group to engage in “terror” tactics, arousing a sense of threat, whether it’s fear of the apocalypse, fear of being criticized, fear of the outside world, or some other group-specific fear. I believe attachment theory provides a good theoretical approach for understanding brainwashing, and it holds that people run to a safe haven when they are afraid. If the group has been successful, the recruit, now having had fear instilled by the group, runs to the only safe haven available—the group itself."
What are the consequences?
"There are two effects of running to the group. First, it creates a disorganized attachment bond, what Judith Herman described as a trauma bond in her book, Trauma and Recovery. It is strong bond that is difficult to break so long as the person remains isolated from alternate safe havens. Emotional and cognitive isolation are key, not necessarily physical isolation. Cults isolate followers by controlling their personal relationships and by restricting information sources to the cult.
Second, the disorganized attachment, characterized by running to the source of fear, causes dissociation. Running to the source of fear obviously doesn’t provide escape from the threat. Because it is a maladaptive way of coping with threat, the person goes into a “freeze” mode and is unable to think clearly about what is happening. This explains why perfectly intelligent people can find themselves unable to rationally view a cult they are involved with. It is literally too frightening and disorganizing to do so. The lack of alternate information and true havens undermine a follower’s cognitive processes on matters regarding the group. The cult can now do the thinking for them—the essence of brainwashing.”
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skyrider
And........still do.
For 20 years, GSC's posters have been expounding and explaining TWI'S PRISON OF SUBSERVIENCE.
In 2005, Catcup posted a thread entitled "The Nine Dots of Nonsense"..........
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Rocky
Alas... there was no way to enforce any "truth in advertising" provision whether it was enshrined in any law or not. I applaud you for the acronym more fairly characterizing the situation.
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T-Bone
Skyrider,
thanks so much for quoting Catcup’s post from 2005 – that was before I joined Grease Spot – so I never saw it. That’s why it’s always good to bring up those oldies but goodies every so often…For the past few years I have been copying / pasting into Word docs so many of the great threads on Grease Spot along with the links to them just so I can easily ruminate over the wisdom and truth contained in them at my convenience. Catcup’s thread is now one of those docs on my laptop.
Stuff like this always fascinates me - I am irresistibly drawn to anything that helps me understand the manipulative techniques & impact of con artists, predators, cult leaders, mental & emotional bullies, sleazebags, tyrants – and “lying thieving weasels” (that triad of doom was Don’tWorryBeHappy’s moniker for those TWI a$$holes past & present – you know who you are!
).
(Hi Don'tWorryBeHappy,
Tonto and I sure miss you man! hope you're doing well !!! )
Around the time I left TWI I happened to read a book The Closing of the American Mind by Allan Bloom (Bloom was an American philosopher, classicist, and academician – and his book is a critique of the contemporary university and how Bloom saw it as failing its students – which resonates with me seeing the catastrophic failure of the way corps program)…over the years since I’ve read that book – there is this one quote from it that has become almost like a refrain to my once cult-entangled life – and it’s as follows:
Freedom of the mind requires not only, or not even specially, the absence of legal constraints but the presence of alternative thoughts. The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.
Edited by T-Boneformatting and typos
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Rocky
Hazzah! Great quote. Thanks for highlighting it.
Here's another Allan Bloom quote:
“The failure to read good books both enfeebles the vision and strengthens our most fatal tendency -- the belief that the here and now is all there is.”
― Allan Bloom, The Closing of the American Mind
“The liberally educated person is one who is able to resist the easy and preferred answers, not because he is obstinate but because he knows others worthy of consideration.”
― Allan Bloom, The Closing of the American Mind
“The real community of man, in the midst of all the self-contradictory simulacra of community, is the community of those who seek the truth, of the potential knowers...of all men to the extent they desire to know. But in fact, this includes only a few, the true friends, as Plato was to Aristotle at the very moment they were disagreeing about the nature of the good...They were absolutely one soul as they looked at the problem. This, according to Plato, is the only real friendship, the only real common good. It is here that the contact people so desperately seek is to be found...This is the meaning of the riddle of the improbable philosopher-kings. They have a true community that is exemplary for all other communities.”
― Allan Bloom, The Closing of the American Mind
At this point, I think it's worth mentioning that it's NOT just TWI that is guilty, but all churches in America, I suspect, are prone to this malady.
By the way, a current discussion taking place in the Matters of Faith/Doctrinal forum on this website conjures in my mind the last quote I listed above. It's SO easy to be dismissive of those with whom we disagree. Perhaps a lingering artifact of waybrain, but active love, wonderment at those with whom one disagrees (which I hope to make a habit) can foster that community and enlarge the lives of people on all sides of such a discussion. That is, even if no one comes to a consensus of mind.
Alas, I don't find this book in the catalog at my local public library... however, it IS on Amazon.
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Rocky
Btw, T-Bone, I had never heard of Professor Bloom or his book before reading your recent post. Thanks very much for mentioning it.
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outandabout
TWI basically focused on PFAL, Intermediate, Advanced and the other classes required before the Advanced Class. That was pretty much it. Focusing on those year after year over and over didn't result in much growth. And we thought we knew more than other Christians. It just went around in circles, becoming more and more stifling as the years went by. No freedom to actually research the Bible and learn new things. There are so many Bible scholars I have discovered and learned from since I left TWI - people who have dedicated their lives to the study of God's Word. And each of them has something unique to offer.
I still apply some things I learned in TWI but that isn't the end all a be all regarding learning and growth.
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WordWolf
Even when I was IN twi, I didn't think they knew EVERYTHING, even though I thought they knew better than the rest. I wasn't above learning spot-skills from all sorts of Christians, and I've considered myself an eclectic Christian all along, free to borrow from this and that and not forced to conform to a single style or brand. Granted, I was only in for a few years, and it was in NYC, where there were a lot of mavericks as far as twi went. I do think that, had I stayed for another 5-10 years, the chain would have chafed and I might have left on my own and not just when craig was acting visibly and obviously crazy.
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skyrider
As you noted, WW......even when IN twi, I didn't think they knew EVERYTHING.
Because they didn't......
It was obvious that twi was a young ministry trying to find its way in life. Wierwille would "borrow" and tweak from others ALL THE TIME. Whether it was a whole teaching like "The Red Thread" from Oral Roberts or the "Not Ancient Walls" poem he adapted and adopted as the corps poem.
The Blue Songbook contained MANY of the great Christian hymns like......"How Great Thou Art." Some songs contained only a couple of stanzas of the song......but then, certain words were tweaked from twi-consumption. Later, words of songs were changed, but kept the melody. And then, Christmas carols were perverted to the cult doctrine.
Teachings, scripture verses, songs, poems, art, professions, culture........wierwille was tweaking it at every turn. During the building phases 1974-1985.......architects, engineers, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, audio/video personnel, etc. etc. helped to take twi from its patchwork history to the next level. Twi was ALWAYS grasping for the expertise of "the professional world" to help bolster its image.
BUT.......in the last decade of his life, wierwille's narcissism attempted to close ranks.
By 1978......twi was a full-fledged cult.
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skyrider
This whole episode of twi...........looks, to me, like a damn horse race.
Substitute all kinds of "names for these horses"..........Dr. Wierwille, the law of believing, red drapes, cancer is a devil spirit, copouts, Lo Shanta, etc..........and you get a horse race that no one knows what really "fvcking happened."
Add: Take this with a slice of humor in one hand and a beer in the other.
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Rocky
Love the video, thanks Skyrider!
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GeorgeStGeorge
A bit off-topic, but hysterical.
George
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Twinky
It's "No-one f---g knows" as they reach the finish line!! LOL!
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T-Bone
Taking your horse name substitution a step further – in the race to captivate people’s souls:
And they’re off their rockers right out of the gate - it’s Wierwille’s Snow Job…followed closely in his behind by Twinkle Toes Craig…Critical Mind stumbling out of the gate trying to catch up…Great Fvcking Darkness already hustling for an early lead…from the inside going outside it’s Chris the Bus Driver working hard against Twinkle Toes Craig… Rosie the Racketeer got off to a slow start but she’s now neck and neck with Chris the Bus Driver…moving to the outside it’s Egypt’s Gold followed by Reverends Aplenty…as they pass the quarterly report , Revival & Restoration is working hard to get past Reverends Aplenty and Splinters Galore…they’re moving at a brisk pace all clustered together except for Abundant Sharing and I’m Corps Dammit now lagging way behind…Rosie the Racketeer and Great Fvcking Darkness are still looking strong…with just a forlorn look ahead it’s Rosie the Racketeer and Great Fvcking Darkness, followed by Splinters Galore and Offshoot Yourself in the Foot…as they come down to the wire…oh my God - - it’s Great Fvcking Darkness !
Edited by T-Boneformatting and typos
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Twinky
LOL, T-Bone. You have a great sense of humor (note US spelling).
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Grace Valerie Claire
T-Bone, excellent post. Thanks for the information.
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