Hi everyone. I’ve been lurking a while and out for about 10 years. Although I would go to a splinter group with my husband and eventually walked away because there was never anything new or fresh. My husband and I are not in a good place. He is still affiliated with the splinter group. The leader got him in the word many years ago and he says it saved his life. I believe. But he knows I’ve got information about how terrible TWI was and is and he has some questions. I was quite shocked myself to hear that Maggie Muggins and Herman Baloko were stolen from BG Leonard. My question is, where do I find that? Thank you so much.
I don’t know if these will answer your specific question but here’s a few links to other Grease Spot threads that discuss plagiarism – I think there’s been some reference to "stolen characters" in some of them:
IIRC, it was dmiller who met Leonard and looked through his photo album. He found vpw's photo from "his" class. According to Leonard, vpw asked Leonard for permission to teach Leonard's class locally on a one-time basis. Leonard gave permission, and vpw sent a photo of that class to Leonard.
According to vpw, the class he taught was HIS class on "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today", which just happened to have identical content to Leonard's class. It was years later when Leonard found out vpw had been plagiarizing him continually.
BG Leonard's publishing house was CANADIAN CHRISTIAN PRESS. His examples in class included Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup and Henry Bellocco. Maggie Muggins was recognizable to a Canadian audience. vpw's publishing house was American Christian Press. His examples in class included Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup, and exactly one mention each of Herman Bellocco and Snowball Pete. IMHO, Herman was a mistake when he meant to say Henry, and it stuck, and Snowball Pete was his weak attempt to say something different.
"What Maggie Muggins Told us About Wierwille." Mrs W's book was "Born Again to Serve." it was supposedly written by her. The content includes some of her recollections as well as documentation from twi's records, but she didn't actually WRITE the thing, no matter who it says it was written by. It occasionally gave an inside look at something and revealed something they didn't really mean to reveal.
There's some interesting threads on the subject, but I'm not sure if any directly address this question.
IIRC, it was dmiller who met Leonard and looked through his photo album. He found vpw's photo from "his" class. According to Leonard, vpw asked Leonard for permission to teach Leonard's class locally on a one-time basis. Leonard gave permission, and vpw sent a photo of that class to Leonard.
I believe dmiller IS on Facebook. Friends there with several current and/or former GSCers... but not me, so I wouldn't be the guy to ask him for more specifics.
Over the years, both here & on Waydale, I've seen countless posters come in and call the time of their entry into 'the ministry' as the good old days, the days that really were happenin'.
I could argue that socks or me, with our entry in '69 & '70 respectively, came in on the really good old days. So it seemed to me. To me the big change was when Wierwille staged a coup on the Way West&East and coopted those ministries as his own (a familiar pattern if you follow what he did to BG Leonard).
So to you, the big change was when Harry died. Yeah, he was different after that, but i didn't see a marked change in Der Veg, just a continued slide in the direction it had charted years earlier.
For others, their time of entry was dem golden days.
Back to Leonard. Being cataloger of old photos and such, surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two "PFAL" classes? Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did. But i didn't see them in Da Way. I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture. It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times.
As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class. He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing. The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregatin in O-hiya. Hmmm. Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-oted the man's work as his own. FAMILIAR PATTERN!
All of which disqualifies him in any way from having been in public ministry of any kind. Period. However you burnish it and photograph it with a warm hazy glow, the conclusion is clear in the harsh light of day.
yes, vpw called Leonard's class his own, and the first name vpw gave it was "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today". Some time later came more material, and splitting it into 3 classes and calling it Power For Abundant Living, and the books with those names. vpw took Leonard's class once- showing up after it had begun and demanding he be allowed to stay despite Leonard telling him not to show up since they had a class that had already started. vpw retook it a few months later, and brought a few people with him, and vpw was considered a grad. A few months after that was when vpw pulled his teach-Leonard's class- stunt, and those people who had attended Leonard's class were called grads of vpw's supposedly different class.
IIRC, it was dmiller who met Leonard and looked through his photo album. He found vpw's photo from "his" class. According to Leonard, vpw asked Leonard for permission to teach Leonard's class locally on a one-time basis. Leonard gave permission, and vpw sent a photo of that class to Leonard.
According to vpw, the class he taught was HIS class on "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today", which just happened to have identical content to Leonard's class. It was years later when Leonard found out vpw had been plagiarizing him continually.
BG Leonard's publishing house was CANADIAN CHRISTIAN PRESS. His examples in class included Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup and Henry Bellocco. Maggie Muggins was recognizable to a Canadian audience. vpw's publishing house was American Christian Press. His examples in class included Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup, and exactly one mention each of Herman Bellocco and Snowball Pete. IMHO, Herman was a mistake when he meant to say Henry, and it stuck, and Snowball Pete was his weak attempt to say something different.
"What Maggie Muggins Told us About Wierwille." Mrs W's book was "Born Again to Serve." it was supposedly written by her. The content includes some of her recollections as well as documentation from twi's records, but she didn't actually WRITE the thing, no matter who it says it was written by. It occasionally gave an inside look at something and revealed something they didn't really mean to reveal.
There's some interesting threads on the subject, but I'm not sure if any directly address this question.
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Squirrel Watcher
Hi everyone. I’ve been lurking a while and out for about 10 years. Although I would go to a splinter group with my husband and eventually walked away because there was never anything new or fresh. My husband and I are not in a good place. He is still affiliated with the splinter group. The leader got him in the word many years ago and he says it saved his life. I believe. But he knows I’ve got information about how terrible TWI was and is and he has some questions. I was quite shocked myself to hear that Maggie Muggins and Herman Baloko were stolen from BG Leonard. My question is, where do I find that? Thank you so much.
Edited by Squirrel WatcherNeeded to add more
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T-Bone
I don’t know if these will answer your specific question but here’s a few links to other Grease Spot threads that discuss plagiarism – I think there’s been some reference to "stolen characters" in some of them:
Plagiarism on the road to success
vpw and plagiarism
wierwille's avid plagiarism and sexual predation
Open letter to Jean Yves DeLisle
life cycle of wierwille's Way Tree
a couple of questions about vpw
== == ==
Here’s a couple more I just found by putting “Maggie Muggins” in the search window
What Maggie Muggins told us about wierwille
Socrates reply on The Wierwille Legacy thread
To use the search feature on Grease Spot use the search feature at the top right of Grease Spot page:
Edited by T-Bonerevisions = to see the vision again
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WordWolf
IIRC, it was dmiller who met Leonard and looked through his photo album. He found vpw's photo from "his" class. According to Leonard, vpw asked Leonard for permission to teach Leonard's class locally on a one-time basis. Leonard gave permission, and vpw sent a photo of that class to Leonard.
According to vpw, the class he taught was HIS class on "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today", which just happened to have identical content to Leonard's class. It was years later when Leonard found out vpw had been plagiarizing him continually.
BG Leonard's publishing house was CANADIAN CHRISTIAN PRESS. His examples in class included Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup and Henry Bellocco. Maggie Muggins was recognizable to a Canadian audience. vpw's publishing house was American Christian Press. His examples in class included Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup, and exactly one mention each of Herman Bellocco and Snowball Pete. IMHO, Herman was a mistake when he meant to say Henry, and it stuck, and Snowball Pete was his weak attempt to say something different.
"What Maggie Muggins Told us About Wierwille." Mrs W's book was "Born Again to Serve." it was supposedly written by her. The content includes some of her recollections as well as documentation from twi's records, but she didn't actually WRITE the thing, no matter who it says it was written by. It occasionally gave an inside look at something and revealed something they didn't really mean to reveal.
There's some interesting threads on the subject, but I'm not sure if any directly address this question.
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/14041-bg-leonard-attended-vpws-funeral/
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/8966-vpws-plagiarized-sources/
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/8645-vpw-on-the-sources-of-his-books/
I made a note somewhere that it's discussed in the thread "the way: living in wonderland" but I'll need to find the post where it was discussed.
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/7363-the-wayliving-in-wonderland/
I'll get back with the specifics from that thread when I have time.
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Rocky
I believe dmiller IS on Facebook. Friends there with several current and/or former GSCers... but not me, so I wouldn't be the guy to ask him for more specifics.
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WordWolf
It was faster to find it here. Good thing, too. It was TheEvan who had a story to tell.
TheEvan posted this once.
(1/17/05, 12:04pm)
"...surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two 'PFAL' classes?
Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever
see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did.
But I didn't see them in Da Way.
I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th
birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old
ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture.
It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times.
As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class.
He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing.
The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's
Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregation in O-hiya.
Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-opted the man's work as his own.
FAMILIAR PATTERN!
All of which disqualifies him in any way from having been in public ministry
of any kind. Period. However you burnish it and photograph it with a warm
hazy glow, the conclusion is clear in the harsh light of day."
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WordWolf
TheEvan's original post was on "Craig and VP's relationship?" thread.
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4650-craig-and-vps-relationship/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-112790
Over the years, both here & on Waydale, I've seen countless posters come in and call the time of their entry into 'the ministry' as the good old days, the days that really were happenin'.
I could argue that socks or me, with our entry in '69 & '70 respectively, came in on the really good old days. So it seemed to me. To me the big change was when Wierwille staged a coup on the Way West&East and coopted those ministries as his own (a familiar pattern if you follow what he did to BG Leonard).
So to you, the big change was when Harry died. Yeah, he was different after that, but i didn't see a marked change in Der Veg, just a continued slide in the direction it had charted years earlier.
For others, their time of entry was dem golden days.
Back to Leonard. Being cataloger of old photos and such, surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two "PFAL" classes? Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did. But i didn't see them in Da Way. I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture. It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times.
As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class. He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing. The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregatin in O-hiya. Hmmm. Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-oted the man's work as his own. FAMILIAR PATTERN!
All of which disqualifies him in any way from having been in public ministry of any kind. Period. However you burnish it and photograph it with a warm hazy glow, the conclusion is clear in the harsh light of day.
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WordWolf
For those wondering,
yes, vpw called Leonard's class his own, and the first name vpw gave it was "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today". Some time later came more material, and splitting it into 3 classes and calling it Power For Abundant Living, and the books with those names. vpw took Leonard's class once- showing up after it had begun and demanding he be allowed to stay despite Leonard telling him not to show up since they had a class that had already started. vpw retook it a few months later, and brought a few people with him, and vpw was considered a grad. A few months after that was when vpw pulled his teach-Leonard's class- stunt, and those people who had attended Leonard's class were called grads of vpw's supposedly different class.
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WordWolf
Ok, I was wrong, It was TheEvan who posted about Leonard.
"
(1/17/05, 12:04pm)
"...surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two 'PFAL' classes?
Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever
see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did.
But I didn't see them in Da Way.
I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th
birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old
ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture.
It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times.
As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class.
He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing.
The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's
Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregation in O-hiya.
Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-opted the man's work as his own.
FAMILIAR PATTERN!
All of which disqualifies him in any way from having been in public ministry
of any kind. Period. However you burnish it and photograph it with a warm
hazy glow, the conclusion is clear in the harsh light of day."
=======================
My reply......
[Here's what that means in plainer English.
vpw takes Leonard's class.
vpw REtakes Leonard's class.
vpw then goes off for a few months by himself.
vpw tells Leonard
"I'd like to run your CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to my local congregation."
Leonard concludes that this would bless that single congregation,
and approves this, giving his blessing for this one Gifts of the Spirit class.
vpw then prepares to run "his" class-using Leonard's material but
slapping his name on it,
and calling it "Power For Abundant Living" rather than "Gifts of the Spirit".
While vpw tells the new students it is HIS class,
he tells Leonard he is running LEONARD's class,
and even provides Leonard with a copy of the class photos for
Leonard's scrapbook.
Leonard, trusting other Christians as he does,
believes vpw and does not realize vpw is lying through his teeth
until later,
after vpw has run several of "his" classes.]
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