I remember my early time at HQ. Went straight there from the Adv Class, so RoA was being set up. We were immediately expected to join work crews and all the potential in-rez Corps were in the dishroom or setting up the food tables. I remember Reggie H having great fun posing with a mop or broom, and singing into it as if into a microphone. There was a lot of camaraderie and fun in those early days.
After RoA - maybe, it was even the first week or so of in-rez - we were invited to help lift potatoes in a field a short distance away. It was only an invitation, "but there'll be nobody left here if you don't come along." Everybody went, and it was quite a nice time, picking the lifted potatoes in the evening sunshine.
I also enjoyed the wood-chopping upper body exercise that we had to do. Twice a week, we went into Way Woods to chop piles of wood. One quickly learned which woods split easily and which didn't. There were things that God could teach us too, but we didn't need that week after week. While I enjoyed the activity, I resented that it always took place when we were supposed to be at study hall, as if studying the Bible had no importance (little did I know!!). It never took place during our "work" time, which clearly had a higher priority.
Twinky, your post reminds me so much of the FellowLaborer program I participated in during the mid 1970s. Work, work, work, that's all we did. When we would be allowed to go back home for a visit, you got a sense that local believers were under the impression we were doing in-depth studies of "the word". Nothing could be farther from the truth. When we weren't working, we rehashed the PFAL materials over and over and over. Then we rehashed them again. There was precious little time to do any independent study or simply grow as an individual. I read the Bible less there than I ever had before entering the program. That may be, for me, one of the biggest disappointments of the program.
Waysider’s post got me thinking about my in-residence time…pretty much the same thing…rehashing PFAL…even up to the culmination of our in-rez “higher education”, the research paper…and there was craig ranting at the podium “don’t try to reinvent the wheel – base your research paper on something from PFAL”…it doesn’t matter how many ways you slice it and dice it – there’s only so many recipes you can come up with when you’re restricted to certain ingredients…rehash indeed…I went into the way corps program because “acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness” sounded really cool to me…what a disappointment !
Rocky has an interesting thread ( here ) about wierwille challenging PFAL students to lay aside other reading material and to just read what he told you to read – because he didn’t want you to THINK ! Now imagine doing that for 2 years straight in a tightly controlled environment. Sound intellectually stimulating? I trow not.
On Rocky’s thread he says you should read classic literature because it forces you to think deeply and concentrate. I’ve started reading Hamlet. But ya know, Grease Spot forces me to think deeply and concentrate – a lot more than way corps training did anyway.
Twinky’s post got me thinking of the camaraderie in-residence. Steve was a very talented musician. Tuning our instruments for a rehearsal in the Chapel, he took the time to help me with my wooden ear (usually it took me forever to tune my bass and sometimes it was hit-or-miss). He was on piano and I was on bass. He’d hit a low E key and I would pluck the E string. He got me to focus on the difference in wavelengths between the two notes – and as I’m tuning to his E, I could actually hear the fluttering of my string smooth out to match his E – from wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa to waaa-waaa-waaa-waaa to uhmmmmmmmmmmm. Tuning an instrument is probably no big deal to a lot of musicians – but this was a tremendous breakthrough for me.
Edited by T-Bone this revision was re-tuned to a Grease Spot wavelength
There was a lot of camaraderie in rez and we had some good times - as individuals, just having a bit of fun. First semester was hard, but we had fun together for the first few weeks. Before the screws started to really tighten. But - it seems to me - the most fun people to be around were also the people who mysteriously vanished, got dismissed, went home, didn't come back after "HoHo Relo." And many of the ones who left were remarkably toe-the-line, or priggish, or so goody-two-shoes... none of that was me, but somehow I managed to avoid getting thrown out. Perhaps they wanted to keep an International onside for some other reason - but they had a good go at breaking me.
As an International, I did two years back to back. No interim year on the field (or more likely, mouldering in some meaningless role at HQ). No. I did my first year with one Corps, then straight into the next year with the previous Corps. WCz suddenly becoming WCy, as it were. They were bonded in their way and were somehow focused a bit differently. Perhaps it was something that happened, after the year on the field. Often I didn't really feel a part of them. But then I didn't really feel a part of my own corps, either. Very strange.I did have some good times, with them, though.
I liked being at Gunnison where I was put in charge of pre-school kids - the sort of 3-5 year age group. Me? I knew absolutely nothing about kids, of that age or any other. But I found I really got to like the littlies and they were a lot of fun and it was a good time. I saw how many of them grew in confidence and took care of each other, all in each individual week. It was amazing. And I look back at that time as being one of the best. Hard work (I was finishing up my research paper at the time) but still, one of the best times.
I found these Rock of Ages videos while I was looking for Bob Stanley Acts 29 on You Tube...enjoy...obviously if you don't like a portion of the video feel free to fast forward it.
Who's the 1st speaker in 1972 part 2? (about the 3:00 mark)
good question...I don't know - I got in TWI in 1974 - my first Rock was 1975...my first impressions were that it was Peter J Wade...then Bishop KC Pillai...but then I blew that off realizing I was just grasping at hay sticks - as I kept listen to his phraseology (different than way-speak) I was wondering if he was some invited local official like the mayor or something...hey any "old-TWI timers" out there - can you ID this guy?
Who's the 1st speaker in 1972 part 2? (about the 3:00 mark)
That was Rev. Bishop. He was Tim Bishop’s father, and his church was in Rye, NY. Remember the “Groovy Christians of Rye”? (Life Magazine article, May 14, 1971)
As I recall they held Sunday fellowships and larger meetings in a room in Rev, Bishop’s church at the time.
That was Rev. Bishop. He was Tim Bishop’s father, and his church was in Rye, NY. Remember the “Groovy Christians of Rye”? (Life Magazine article, May 14, 1971)
HAPe4me, thanks for the link to the article…I got a kick out of this line in the article:
“Sometimes I almost wish they would go back to something simple like smoking a little grass,” says Mrs. Lynn Seiffer, a travel agent who is getting her master’s in library science. “Drugs I can try to understand, but this? This is creepy.”
That was Rev. Bishop. He was Tim Bishop’s father, and his church was in Rye, NY. Remember the “Groovy Christians of Rye”? (Life Magazine article, May 14, 1971)
As I recall they held Sunday fellowships and larger meetings in a room in Rev, Bishop’s church at the time.
"...His professional life included stints as senior pastor of the Swarthmore (Pennsylvania) Presbyterian Church from 1948 to 1958, and in the same capacity in Rye, New York, from 1960 to 1982..."
Hi everyone, although I did not disclose his name in my memoir, Undertow, Dr. Joseph Bishop was my father-in-law. I was married to Tim Bishop from 1973 to 1991.
Hi everyone, although I did not disclose his name in my memoir, Undertow, Dr. Joseph Bishop was my father-in-law. I was married to Tim Bishop from 1973 to 1991.
Hi everyone, although I did not disclose his name in my memoir, Undertow, Dr. Joseph Bishop was my father-in-law. I was married to Tim Bishop from 1973 to 1991.
In Undertow, Tim's name is changed to Ed.
Thanks Penworks !
...and about this thread in general: it looks like memory lane is turning into a freeway.
I did love the Rock of Ages events. I think 94 was my last one. The timeline is fuzzy. I know its that last one seeing the deteriorating conduct of Loy that really set off my growing baloney alarm. I think that directly lead to my being marked late summer of 95. Its amazing how he turned me from being so committed that I spent 91-92 as a WOW in Tuscaloosa Al to having massive deep doubts.
Edited by Scott S. Change aperently not allowed word
This picture was taken 10 minutes before the document was put in the shredder…Only the name has been changed to protect the innocent.
I remember some WOWs sent to our area – they all were wearing sweatshirts that said “I operate all nine all the time”
I thought of a way to re-purpose that sweatshirt but it only works if you’re a very busy surgeon: I operate all nine all the time
Hello T-Bone,
I believe I attended this class as well. But I disposed of my diploma years ago during a Marie Kondo tidying flurry :-)
During my class VPW stopped teaching for a day because the students were "so screwed up" that we needed time to get "our heads right" or some such thing.
I believe I attended this class as well. But I disposed of my diploma years ago during a Marie Kondo tidying flurry :-)
During my class VPW stopped teaching for a day because the students were "so screwed up" that we needed time to get "our heads right" or some such thing.
Does this ring a bell?
I was a Branch Coordinator at this 1978 Advanced Class.
Wierwille and Martindale had us branch coordinators meet them in the Fireplace Room at 4pm the opening day. It was at this meeting that wierwille vented his frustrations with three 8th Corps guys who had, in his words, "gone rogue" on their research papers. Assumingly, they had ventured off the plantation of pfal and took upon themselves the earnest quest of something that challenged the very core of wierwille's foundational teachings.
It was a weird, and tense, advanced class. Looking back, as I have several times......I would say that wierwille's levels of frustration were overflowing and martindale tried to be "extra spiritually sharp" and confrontational as well. It wasn't pleasant.
For the record, this was the last advanced class where twi used outside sources and tapes of spiritual activity. Tapes like where the one woman was possessed with multiple devil spirits. Or, the unique casting out of spirits by some minister. After this 1978 Class......twi went in-house. It became more O.T. readings and parsing thru the 16 keys to walking by the spirit. Except.....they still promoted things like "The Thirteenth Tribe" and "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" and the Illuminati.
Those release groups were simply there to help regurgitate the morning's teaching......and give wierwille time for a nap.
I found these Rock of Ages videos while I was looking for Bob Stanley Acts 29 on You Tube...enjoy...obviously if you don't like a portion of the video feel free to fast forward it.
Did you find Bob Stanley Acts 29 on YT?
I have two songs from that album as MP3s, God First and First Fruits. I always loved those tunes.
Also have a few others in MP3 format, Paul Vergilio's 1974 album, Good Seed (Living in Love), Brian Bliss (Sons of God), a few from PDSTRO.
Perhaps these have all been shared here before, but if anyone is interested I'll make them shareable on Google Drive .
I was a Branch Coordinator at this 1978 Advanced Class.
Wierwille and Martindale had us branch coordinators meet them in the Fireplace Room at 4pm the opening day. It was at this meeting that wierwille vented his frustrations with three 8th Corps guys who had, in his words, "gone rogue" on their research papers. Assumingly, they had ventured off the plantation of pfal and took upon themselves the earnest quest of something that challenged the very core of wierwille's foundational teachings.
It was a weird, and tense, advanced class. Looking back, as I have several times......I would say that wierwille's levels of frustration were overflowing and martindale tried to be "extra spiritually sharp" and confrontational as well. It wasn't pleasant.
For the record, this was the last advanced class where twi used outside sources and tapes of spiritual activity. Tapes like where the one woman was possessed with multiple devil spirits. Or, the unique casting out of spirits by some minister. After this 1978 Class......twi went in-house. It became more O.T. readings and parsing thru the 16 keys to walking by the spirit. Except.....they still promoted things like "The Thirteenth Tribe" and "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" and the Illuminati.
Those release groups were simply there to help regurgitate the morning's teaching......and give wierwille time for a nap.
I remember the tenseness but thought it normal as this was my first AC. On a positive note, my branch was full of fun loving, interesting guys. We'd parody some of those outside sourced tapes like the KISS video where Gene Simmons is throwing up blood, or the satanic ritual that culminated with the line, "Kiss... the GOAT!" :-)
"Kiss... the GOAT" would induce gales of laughter for the reminder of the class.
A guy from Montana named Glenn O. may have been my BC. I think he was 8th corps (might be wrong about that). I just found a photo of my branch. A good looking group of guys ;-)
I believe I attended this class as well. But I disposed of my diploma years ago during a Marie Kondo tidying flurry :-)
During my class VPW stopped teaching for a day because the students were "so screwed up" that we needed time to get "our heads right" or some such thing.
Does this ring a bell?
2 hours ago, skyrider said:
I was a Branch Coordinator at this 1978 Advanced Class.
Wierwille and Martindale had us branch coordinators meet them in the Fireplace Room at 4pm the opening day. It was at this meeting that wierwille vented his frustrations with three 8th Corps guys who had, in his words, "gone rogue" on their research papers. Assumingly, they had ventured off the plantation of pfal and took upon themselves the earnest quest of something that challenged the very core of wierwille's foundational teachings.
It was a weird, and tense, advanced class. Looking back, as I have several times......I would say that wierwille's levels of frustration were overflowing and martindale tried to be "extra spiritually sharp" and confrontational as well. It wasn't pleasant.
For the record, this was the last advanced class where twi used outside sources and tapes of spiritual activity. Tapes like where the one woman was possessed with multiple devil spirits. Or, the unique casting out of spirits by some minister. After this 1978 Class......twi went in-house. It became more O.T. readings and parsing thru the 16 keys to walking by the spirit. Except.....they still promoted things like "The Thirteenth Tribe" and "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" and the Illuminati.
Those release groups were simply there to help regurgitate the morning's teaching......and give wierwille time for a nap.
That “silent treatment” from wierwille sounds vaguely familiar. ..that type of behavior by wierwille (and other leadership as well) was but a foretaste of the punishment and manipulation that would lie ahead in way corps training:
“The silent treatment is a way to inflict pain without visible bruising – literally...Research has shown that the act of ignoring or excluding activates the same area of the brain that is activated by physical pain…The silent treatment can tend to present itself as a response more fitting of the ‘high road’, one of grace and dignity, but research has shown it is anything but… Kipling Williams, a Professor of Psychology at Purdue University who has studied ostracism for twenty years, explains, ‘Excluding and ignoring people, such as giving them the cold shoulder or silent treatment, are used to punish or manipulate, and people may not realise the emotional or physical harm that is being done.’..The ability to detect ostracism is hardwired in us – it doesn’t matter if you’re being ignored by a group or a person you can’t stand, the pain still registers…”
It’s odd how certain things will stick in my memory – like stuff from Advanced Class ’78. There’s only a few things that stick out in my mind from that class: craig’s anti-Semitic rantings about the Thirteenth Tribe and questioning leadership (more on that in a second), a video of David Noebel talking about stuff out of his book The Marxist Minstrels - followed by wierwille and craig elaborating on a lot of big name musicians (like the Beatles) were either wrong seed or heavily influenced by devil spirits. And the most disturbing memory of all from that class is of my wife being put through an emotional and intellectual wringer over the "technicalities" of how to become born again of the wrong seed… ...btw, since I left TWI my opinion of that whole teaching on being born again of the wrong seed is that it's totally bogus – and not something I care to discuss here – the doctrinal forum is the place for that – I am just bringing it up as it relates to one of those turning-off-the-switch-moments-in-critical-thinking .
My wife was in a Twig at Advanced Class ’78 (btw, married couples were separated in sleeping quarters and in Twig placement). Tonto (my wife) got into an argument with the Twig leader who emphatically kept making the assertion that one could only become born again of the wrong seed by addressing Satan directly at an altar and saying something along the lines of Satan you are my Lord. Well, this brouhaha went all the way up the mini-Way-Tree-of-Advanced-Class-’78 - and no surprise, was more fuel to add to the fire (as Skyrider mentioned the 8th corps guys going rogue on research paper) so, another confrontational-rant by craig – that we should not question leadership...so to sum up the message to my wife - coming straight from the top was "leadership is always right, you're wrong, so shut up".
== == == ==
On a lighter note, at Advanced Class ’79, I remember Del D. on stage telling about how he was so nervous anticipating meeting wierwille for the first time. Del said he expected that when he would see him, wierwille would thrust his arm out with pointed finger at him saying “you’re wrong seed, you’re wrong seed!” ....I loved it ! I sort of identified with Del - not that I ever thought that I was wrong seed - but I definitely had low self-esteem issues and often doubted if I was really born again, going to heaven and all that jazz.
== == ==
2 hours ago, Inkernet said:
Did you find Bob Stanley Acts 29 on YT?
I have two songs from that album as MP3s, God First and First Fruits. I always loved those tunes.
Also have a few others in MP3 format, Paul Vergilio's 1974 album, Good Seed (Living in Love), Brian Bliss (Sons of God), a few from PDSTRO.
Perhaps these have all been shared here before, but if anyone is interested I'll make them shareable on Google Drive .
The only thing I found on You Tube was some Acts 29 clips – but it appears other bands used that name too.
Edited by T-Bone revised - for the love of the game
I remember the tenseness but thought it normal as this was my first AC. On a positive note, my branch was full of fun loving, interesting guys. We'd parody some of those outside sourced tapes like the KISS video where Gene Simmons is throwing up blood, or the satanic ritual that culminated with the line, "Kiss... the GOAT!" :-)
"Kiss... the GOAT" would induce gales of laughter for the reminder of the class.
A guy from Montana named Glenn O. may have been my BC. I think he was 8th corps (might be wrong about that). I just found a photo of my branch. A good looking group of guys ;-)
that stuff is funny, Inkernet !
sometimes when people would ask me what's something heavy that I learned from the Advanced Class, I would say "found out that Mickey Mouse is wrong seed."
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waysider
I like to think I wouldn't have gotten involved, either. Truth is, though, it was 50 years ago. I'm not the same person now that I was then. Don't beat yourself up over decisions you made so long ago.
outandabout
After I left TWI, I realized my pre-TWI life was just as valid as during TWI. As posted above, we were taught to disavow our previous life as "old man" etc. i came to see my life a single thread,
waysider
I remember one day, in FellowLaborers, looking in the mirror and suddenly wondering "How did I become this person I'm looking at in the mirror?" It wasn't one of those moments where you somberly ponde
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Twinky
I remember my early time at HQ. Went straight there from the Adv Class, so RoA was being set up. We were immediately expected to join work crews and all the potential in-rez Corps were in the dishroom or setting up the food tables. I remember Reggie H having great fun posing with a mop or broom, and singing into it as if into a microphone. There was a lot of camaraderie and fun in those early days.
After RoA - maybe, it was even the first week or so of in-rez - we were invited to help lift potatoes in a field a short distance away. It was only an invitation, "but there'll be nobody left here if you don't come along." Everybody went, and it was quite a nice time, picking the lifted potatoes in the evening sunshine.
I also enjoyed the wood-chopping upper body exercise that we had to do. Twice a week, we went into Way Woods to chop piles of wood. One quickly learned which woods split easily and which didn't. There were things that God could teach us too, but we didn't need that week after week. While I enjoyed the activity, I resented that it always took place when we were supposed to be at study hall, as if studying the Bible had no importance (little did I know!!). It never took place during our "work" time, which clearly had a higher priority.
Edited by TwinkySpelling
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waysider
Twinky, your post reminds me so much of the FellowLaborer program I participated in during the mid 1970s. Work, work, work, that's all we did. When we would be allowed to go back home for a visit, you got a sense that local believers were under the impression we were doing in-depth studies of "the word". Nothing could be farther from the truth. When we weren't working, we rehashed the PFAL materials over and over and over. Then we rehashed them again. There was precious little time to do any independent study or simply grow as an individual. I read the Bible less there than I ever had before entering the program. That may be, for me, one of the biggest disappointments of the program.
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T-Bone
Waysider’s post got me thinking about my in-residence time…pretty much the same thing…rehashing PFAL…even up to the culmination of our in-rez “higher education”, the research paper…and there was craig ranting at the podium “don’t try to reinvent the wheel – base your research paper on something from PFAL”…it doesn’t matter how many ways you slice it and dice it – there’s only so many recipes you can come up with when you’re restricted to certain ingredients…rehash indeed…I went into the way corps program because “acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness” sounded really cool to me…what a disappointment !
Rocky has an interesting thread ( here ) about wierwille challenging PFAL students to lay aside other reading material and to just read what he told you to read – because he didn’t want you to THINK ! Now imagine doing that for 2 years straight in a tightly controlled environment. Sound intellectually stimulating? I trow not.
On Rocky’s thread he says you should read classic literature because it forces you to think deeply and concentrate. I’ve started reading Hamlet. But ya know, Grease Spot forces me to think deeply and concentrate – a lot more than way corps training did anyway.
Twinky’s post got me thinking of the camaraderie in-residence. Steve was a very talented musician. Tuning our instruments for a rehearsal in the Chapel, he took the time to help me with my wooden ear (usually it took me forever to tune my bass and sometimes it was hit-or-miss). He was on piano and I was on bass. He’d hit a low E key and I would pluck the E string. He got me to focus on the difference in wavelengths between the two notes – and as I’m tuning to his E, I could actually hear the fluttering of my string smooth out to match his E – from wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa to waaa-waaa-waaa-waaa to uhmmmmmmmmmmm. Tuning an instrument is probably no big deal to a lot of musicians – but this was a tremendous breakthrough for me.
Edited by T-Bonethis revision was re-tuned to a Grease Spot wavelength
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Twinky
There was a lot of camaraderie in rez and we had some good times - as individuals, just having a bit of fun. First semester was hard, but we had fun together for the first few weeks. Before the screws started to really tighten. But - it seems to me - the most fun people to be around were also the people who mysteriously vanished, got dismissed, went home, didn't come back after "HoHo Relo." And many of the ones who left were remarkably toe-the-line, or priggish, or so goody-two-shoes... none of that was me, but somehow I managed to avoid getting thrown out. Perhaps they wanted to keep an International onside for some other reason - but they had a good go at breaking me.
As an International, I did two years back to back. No interim year on the field (or more likely, mouldering in some meaningless role at HQ). No. I did my first year with one Corps, then straight into the next year with the previous Corps. WCz suddenly becoming WCy, as it were. They were bonded in their way and were somehow focused a bit differently. Perhaps it was something that happened, after the year on the field. Often I didn't really feel a part of them. But then I didn't really feel a part of my own corps, either. Very strange.I did have some good times, with them, though.
I liked being at Gunnison where I was put in charge of pre-school kids - the sort of 3-5 year age group. Me? I knew absolutely nothing about kids, of that age or any other. But I found I really got to like the littlies and they were a lot of fun and it was a good time. I saw how many of them grew in confidence and took care of each other, all in each individual week. It was amazing. And I look back at that time as being one of the best. Hard work (I was finishing up my research paper at the time) but still, one of the best times.
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T-Bone
I found these Rock of Ages videos while I was looking for Bob Stanley Acts 29 on You Tube...enjoy...obviously if you don't like a portion of the video feel free to fast forward it.
Rock of Ages 1972
Rock of Ages 1972 part 2
Rock of Ages 1975
Rock of Ages 1975 part 2
Rock of Ages 1986 part 1
Edited by T-BoneRevision of the Ages
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waysider
Who's the 1st speaker in 1972 part 2? (about the 3:00 mark)
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T-Bone
good question...I don't know - I got in TWI in 1974 - my first Rock was 1975...my first impressions were that it was Peter J Wade...then Bishop KC Pillai...but then I blew that off realizing I was just grasping at hay sticks - as I kept listen to his phraseology (different than way-speak) I was wondering if he was some invited local official like the mayor or something...hey any "old-TWI timers" out there - can you ID this guy?
Edited by T-Bonethe quicker revision-upper
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Peruser
A preacher. I think in another post on this site, Penworks mentions him. Noted quote "may your tribe increase."
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HAPe4me
That was Rev. Bishop. He was Tim Bishop’s father, and his church was in Rye, NY. Remember the “Groovy Christians of Rye”? (Life Magazine article, May 14, 1971)
As I recall they held Sunday fellowships and larger meetings in a room in Rev, Bishop’s church at the time.
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HAPe4me
The article in Life Magazine
The Groovy Christians of Rye, NY
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Rocky
IIRC, Penworks mentions this in Undertow.
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waysider
Isn't he the one who said "The Way is like a bunch of kids playing church."?
Edit:
On second thought, maybe that was Rev. Tracy.
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T-Bone
HAPe4me, thanks for the link to the article…I got a kick out of this line in the article:
“Sometimes I almost wish they would go back to something simple like smoking a little grass,” says Mrs. Lynn Seiffer, a travel agent who is getting her master’s in library science. “Drugs I can try to understand, but this? This is creepy.”
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T-Bone
I found this tribute to Rev. Bishop - Tribute to Joseph Bishop - excerpt from the tribute:
"...His professional life included stints as senior pastor of the Swarthmore (Pennsylvania) Presbyterian Church from 1948 to 1958, and in the same capacity in Rye, New York, from 1960 to 1982..."
Edited by T-Bonerevision for typos
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penworks
Hi everyone, although I did not disclose his name in my memoir, Undertow, Dr. Joseph Bishop was my father-in-law. I was married to Tim Bishop from 1973 to 1991.
In Undertow, Tim's name is changed to Ed.
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Rocky
Yes, of course... I knew that.
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T-Bone
Thanks Penworks !
...and about this thread in general: it looks like memory lane is turning into a freeway.
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Scott S.
I did love the Rock of Ages events. I think 94 was my last one. The timeline is fuzzy. I know its that last one seeing the deteriorating conduct of Loy that really set off my growing baloney alarm. I think that directly lead to my being marked late summer of 95. Its amazing how he turned me from being so committed that I spent 91-92 as a WOW in Tuscaloosa Al to having massive deep doubts.
Edited by Scott S.Change aperently not allowed word
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Inkernet
Hello T-Bone,
I believe I attended this class as well. But I disposed of my diploma years ago during a Marie Kondo tidying flurry :-)
During my class VPW stopped teaching for a day because the students were "so screwed up" that we needed time to get "our heads right" or some such thing.
Does this ring a bell?
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skyrider
I was a Branch Coordinator at this 1978 Advanced Class.
Wierwille and Martindale had us branch coordinators meet them in the Fireplace Room at 4pm the opening day. It was at this meeting that wierwille vented his frustrations with three 8th Corps guys who had, in his words, "gone rogue" on their research papers. Assumingly, they had ventured off the plantation of pfal and took upon themselves the earnest quest of something that challenged the very core of wierwille's foundational teachings.
It was a weird, and tense, advanced class. Looking back, as I have several times......I would say that wierwille's levels of frustration were overflowing and martindale tried to be "extra spiritually sharp" and confrontational as well. It wasn't pleasant.
For the record, this was the last advanced class where twi used outside sources and tapes of spiritual activity. Tapes like where the one woman was possessed with multiple devil spirits. Or, the unique casting out of spirits by some minister. After this 1978 Class......twi went in-house. It became more O.T. readings and parsing thru the 16 keys to walking by the spirit. Except.....they still promoted things like "The Thirteenth Tribe" and "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" and the Illuminati.
Those release groups were simply there to help regurgitate the morning's teaching......and give wierwille time for a nap.
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Inkernet
Did you find Bob Stanley Acts 29 on YT?
I have two songs from that album as MP3s, God First and First Fruits. I always loved those tunes.
Also have a few others in MP3 format, Paul Vergilio's 1974 album, Good Seed (Living in Love), Brian Bliss (Sons of God), a few from PDSTRO.
Perhaps these have all been shared here before, but if anyone is interested I'll make them shareable on Google Drive .
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Inkernet
I remember the tenseness but thought it normal as this was my first AC. On a positive note, my branch was full of fun loving, interesting guys. We'd parody some of those outside sourced tapes like the KISS video where Gene Simmons is throwing up blood, or the satanic ritual that culminated with the line, "Kiss... the GOAT!" :-)
"Kiss... the GOAT" would induce gales of laughter for the reminder of the class.
A guy from Montana named Glenn O. may have been my BC. I think he was 8th corps (might be wrong about that). I just found a photo of my branch. A good looking group of guys ;-)
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T-Bone
That “silent treatment” from wierwille sounds vaguely familiar. ..that type of behavior by wierwille (and other leadership as well) was but a foretaste of the punishment and manipulation that would lie ahead in way corps training:
“The silent treatment is a way to inflict pain without visible bruising – literally...Research has shown that the act of ignoring or excluding activates the same area of the brain that is activated by physical pain…The silent treatment can tend to present itself as a response more fitting of the ‘high road’, one of grace and dignity, but research has shown it is anything but… Kipling Williams, a Professor of Psychology at Purdue University who has studied ostracism for twenty years, explains, ‘Excluding and ignoring people, such as giving them the cold shoulder or silent treatment, are used to punish or manipulate, and people may not realise the emotional or physical harm that is being done.’..The ability to detect ostracism is hardwired in us – it doesn’t matter if you’re being ignored by a group or a person you can’t stand, the pain still registers…”
From Hey Sigmund website
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It’s odd how certain things will stick in my memory – like stuff from Advanced Class ’78. There’s only a few things that stick out in my mind from that class: craig’s anti-Semitic rantings about the Thirteenth Tribe and questioning leadership (more on that in a second), a video of David Noebel talking about stuff out of his book The Marxist Minstrels - followed by wierwille and craig elaborating on a lot of big name musicians (like the Beatles) were either wrong seed or heavily influenced by devil spirits. And the most disturbing memory of all from that class is of my wife being put through an emotional and intellectual wringer over the "technicalities" of how to become born again of the wrong seed… ...btw, since I left TWI my opinion of that whole teaching on being born again of the wrong seed is that it's totally bogus – and not something I care to discuss here – the doctrinal forum is the place for that – I am just bringing it up as it relates to one of those turning-off-the-switch-moments-in-critical-thinking .
My wife was in a Twig at Advanced Class ’78 (btw, married couples were separated in sleeping quarters and in Twig placement). Tonto (my wife) got into an argument with the Twig leader who emphatically kept making the assertion that one could only become born again of the wrong seed by addressing Satan directly at an altar and saying something along the lines of Satan you are my Lord. Well, this brouhaha went all the way up the mini-Way-Tree-of-Advanced-Class-’78 - and no surprise, was more fuel to add to the fire (as Skyrider mentioned the 8th corps guys going rogue on research paper) so, another confrontational-rant by craig – that we should not question leadership...so to sum up the message to my wife - coming straight from the top was "leadership is always right, you're wrong, so shut up".
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On a lighter note, at Advanced Class ’79, I remember Del D. on stage telling about how he was so nervous anticipating meeting wierwille for the first time. Del said he expected that when he would see him, wierwille would thrust his arm out with pointed finger at him saying “you’re wrong seed, you’re wrong seed!” ....I loved it ! I sort of identified with Del - not that I ever thought that I was wrong seed - but I definitely had low self-esteem issues and often doubted if I was really born again, going to heaven and all that jazz.
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The only thing I found on You Tube was some Acts 29 clips – but it appears other bands used that name too.
Edited by T-Bonerevised - for the love of the game
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T-Bone
sometimes when people would ask me what's something heavy that I learned from the Advanced Class, I would say "found out that Mickey Mouse is wrong seed."
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