Reach out to re-engage Way Corps ministers who have been dropped or have discontinued their Way Corps service due to their conscience based on the Word, family needs, health or other issues.
....................[snip]
Wow that’s a huge red flag – it seems to me like they're expecting folks to act against their own conscience. Yikes!!!
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water...Hebrews 10:22 ESV
The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith...
Holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith...I Timothy 1:5, 19 ESV
I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God. Amen…Martin Luther
Wow that’s a huge red flag – it seems to me like they're expecting folks to act against their own conscience. Yikes!!!
................
Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
And, the March 2017 letter continues.......
~~~~~~~~~~
"The fruit of our current leadership for the past decade has become increasingly apparent.
In the past 10 years we have lost over 150 Way Corps ministers. Combined with continuing small in-residence Corps classes, the overall Way Corps numbers are in a sharp decline.
The number of new graduates who stand following completion of classes is dropping. Because qualified Advanced Class candidate numbers have dropped so low, there is no longer a need to do a class every year.
There has been a steady decrease in the number of believers seeking employment at The Way International and there is a high turnover rate.
Attendance at Sunday Teaching Services at The Way International Headquarters and at on-the-field phone hookups is consistently low.
The Way International has a book value of all assets over $68 million, however believers often pay a facility fee to meet as a State or Branch, or they meet in only “budget” or “free” spaces. There are less and less full time ministers on the field and in many Regions only one full time couple in the entire Region. This inequality is non-Biblical and begs the question of how the abundant sharing is utilized. There is no transparency. (II Corinthians 8:14)
There is continued mistreatment of long-standing, faithful believers and leadership. Without dialogue and nothing resembling I Timothy 5:19-21, numerous ministers—including seasoned Officers, Region coordinators, State coordinators, Branch coordinators, and others on Headquarters Staff—have been abruptly removed, mishandled, and in several cases barred from fellowship. This is inexcusable.
The Board of Directors have refused to dialogue regarding the Biblical confrontation for which they were rebuked on August 12, 2016. The attached letters were sent asking for representatives to meet with the Board of Directors and later to attend the Region coordinator’s meetings so concerns could be effectually represented. The only option given was meeting with one couple at a time, not in a suggested Acts 15-type leadership meeting. The Board of Directors continue to move ahead unrepentant.
These are factual indications of their fruit. Additional questions need to be asked....."
~~~~~~~~~~~
Since 2007........150 corps had exited abandoned twi. [2007 - 2017]
How many more since this letter have left or been mark/avoid? Another 120?
And, at the time of this letter..........Bobby Moynihan and other corps leaders (cough, cough) want to "re-engage" with corps who left? What? Convince them against their OWN conscience? What the hell?
Rev. Rosalie F. Rivenbark, Chairman
Rev. Vern Edwards
Rev. Bill Greene
Rev. John Rupp
April 2000...........Twenty (20) years ago, martindale made his public announcement of a "one-time affair" (cough, cough).....
Although martindale thought he could salvage his status and position......he was going down.
Rosalie had known about craig's sexual predation for many years according to a court deposition.
Yet, all those years........Rosalie did NOT warn or expose this disgusting evil.
Six months later.....September 2000 and the fox was in the henhouse (sitting in the prez chair).
Doesn't anyone do RESEARCH in that place?...........Hint: research this linkShumate
Today......20 years later, she still sits in a position to control others. The cult is abysmal and running on fumes......yet, indoctrination and guilt ensue that 15% of earnings MUST be sent into the cult vortex to appease "the gods." Yeah, lower case....."gods" of darkness.
With some $68 million hoarded away......what's another million or two raked away year after year. Rosalie, Donna, Bill and John are low-life, pond dwellers in Podunk, Ohio that are grifters and hypocrites. They have their reward as they walk the halls of the OSC and are greeted with adulation by "servants of the household." What a farce.
Why wasn't Bill Greene installed as twi's 5th president?
Why wasn't John Anthony Rupp chosen? Remember the guy who put his resume' out there on a public forum, February 2016.....looking for ANOTHER job? Yep, that's right. John was trying to find employment elsewhere. LOL
It's like that old analogy of the bucket of crabs all trying to get out, "crab mentality ... a metaphor derived from a pattern of behavior noted incrabswhen they are trapped in a bucket. While any one crab could easily escape,its efforts will be undermined by others, ensuring the group's collective demise." (wikipedia)
It's like that old analogy of the bucket of crabs all trying to get out, "crab mentality ... a metaphor derived from a pattern of behavior noted incrabswhen they are trapped in a bucket. While any one crab could easily escape,its efforts will be undermined by others, ensuring the group's collective demise." (wikipedia)
Crab's on the barb-bee!
true - maybe because they're all being shellfish ...I mean selfish
...don't give me those crusty looks over a bad pun - this isn’t my first Bisque-o-theque ...conch you sea this whole thing has gone craycray...it's the urchin-cy of our times, man!
It is all about the money. If they are worth $68M, that's over a million and a half to play with every year. Income from the current group is small potatoes but it doesn't matter. Work the Corps and staff like slaves, keep "research" or other services down to a minimum, and live off the dividends in perpetuity. The revs "on the field" are just ....ed because they aren't getting some of this largess and they aren't getting much adulation, either. Not to mention a lot of their buddies have left. Rosalie stops anything that smacks of upsetting the status quo because it might interfere with the gravy train. She's no Bill Gates, but it's enough to live on and she gets free housekeeping. All is fine as long as the operation stays small. No more World Over the World nonsense. No more new research. Just keep everyone in line, and dump anyone who threatens otherwise.
True- so long as they do enough to justify having a group, they can avoid lifting an additional finger and just live off the interest. The slave labor is a bonus. Rozilla is just running the clock and trying to collect benefits from twi as long as she lives. I expect the others have similar plans. Everyone except the top cadre are EXPENDABLE and receive virtually no benefits in exchange for all the work they put in. If twi manages to stay reasonably close to legal and remains small potatoes, they can avoid official notice and IRS audits. Since they don't care about God or Christians but rather for money, that's what they're focusing on. They have their reward. For now. Later, I expect an accounting will come and it will be exhaustive.
The dirty, little secret that long-standing corps do NOT want to admit.......
The "red thread" that runs through this corps posturing, hypocrisy and drivel.......
Older Corps, with no marketable or tangible skills, are........UNEMPLOYABLE.
Arrogant corps leaders would NEVER find another job where fawning followers would obey their every command.
Unemployable --- in the sense of, finding a substantial career move away from twi with adulation for who they were.
Corps who went in-residence at age 20-24 and stayed faithful 12-15 yrs to twi, spent their youth in church/cult world.
The vast majority of corps in this swath of life......did NOT further their education or marketable skill sets.
Unless one became a salesperson or self-employed..........the pay scale (to raise a family) was rather bleak.
The smart ones.......like Lonnell J0hnson (5th corps) exited early and went forward to further his education (Phd).
The musicians and orchestra.......at least, had been honing their skills during their tenure in the cult.
Others........ushered at meetings or sat on their butt.
Examples of this? Sure, let's look at L. Craig Martindale. He boasted that he could get a job with any Fortune 500 Company. On several corps meetings, lcm confronted the corps on one level and then, boasted that he could be hired into any executive position in the country. Well, after martindale was ousted by twi's lawyers for sexual predation.......what happened? Leaving in the dead of night, no forwarding address, no public announcement or farewell......martindale re-surfaced in Toledo, Ohio. He got a part-time job at Bally's fitness center.......and later, a low-level job at a UPS hub center.
Other clergy, who left during those turbulent 1986/1987 years............sold fish from a small ice truck (traveling their circuit of customers). They did this for several years UNTIL a better job came along or they attended night school and found better, gainful employment.
Harve Plat!g was twi's vice-president around 2002-2004 (?)......and he exited. Where? To a job as a mid-manager in debt collection.
John Anthony Rupp put his resume' on a public forum in February 2016. Obviously, he was "fishing" for a better opportunity. Rupp's resume' his leadership position in a "national/international company" and plenty of fluffy stuff. No bites. No offers. Rupp was resigned to stay in the cult.
There are low-level, starting jobs everywhere.........but a 40 year old corps grad (with wife and kids) finds it gut-wrenching to admit he "wasted" years of his youth. In my opinion.... there are many who HANG ONTO TWI-NOSTALGIA because it feeds their need for self-importance or those years of adulation.
Now, consider a 55-65 year old corps grad.......who just exited twi in 2017. No home. No equity. No social or community standing. Very little retirement savings or investment. Hundreds of corps leaving twi and disillusioned. What now? They need to face reality......and re-build.
But wait......a new splinter leader arises from the ashes and gives them "hope."
Rather than face reality head-on.......it's more soothing to cleave to the nostalgia of the past (embrace the new splinter).
New splinter leaders get INSTANT gratification. Position. Perks. Privilege. Payment.
The 62 year old corps grad gets to teach once every 3-months for 25 minutes to the new group......yah. Newfound self-importance. (sigh)
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter.......
The strong, independent, educated person.......has plenty of options. You see, he NEVER went into the corps where the undertow carried him far from shore. Perhaps, he/she took pfal and then moved on......no big deal. Life is full of classes and detours. The justification for higher education opens all kinds of pathways, opportunities, advancements, family choices, wealth and security. A life fulfilled.
The follower, dependent on twi.........is led down a path of servitude. He goes into the corps indoctrination program as wierwille admonished. He is scolded for not being fully-committed. He avoids higher education or opportunities that require night school or weekend training. Forty (40) years later, he finds that everything he was led to believe is a lie. The ministry is in shambles. His life is in shambles. What now? He is unemployable.
DeLisle was booted by Rosalie for speaking up. I dont know what he spoke up about....i do know he was forced to admit publicly that he hasnt helped people. He was forced to leave hq and went to Montana.
true - maybe because they're all being shellfish ...I mean selfish
...don't give me those crusty looks over a bad pun - this isn’t my first Bisque-o-theque ...conch you sea this whole thing has gone craycray...it's the urchin-cy of our times, man!
Oh, the shifting bucket of sludge the Way puts out....bored of directors? How could they not be, reshuffling that deck's got to be getting pretty weird.
On this general topic I was chatting with someone about some other stuff, of companies and corporate cultures we'd been part of and I remembered how ungracious the Way Nash could be, as both an organization and a culture.
VP would bend over sideways to try and establish some kind of formal "this is how it's done in pro circles" protocol and get everyone hopping and skipping to get everything "right" and just - so......while keeping his good ol' boy outlaw preacher-on-a-Harley personae, pastor with a dog and a yippidee ky yae tip to his JohnDeere cap.
And then he'd end up publicly ridiculing someone for the slightest mistake, perceived or real, and embarrassing everyone involved.
The man could take the simplest, most elegantly simple thing and make it a shit fest of blame and paranoia.
People who want to follow his every utterance today forget that or excuse it, with a "but he just did that because he loved us", or "he just cared about the Word so much he cared enough to" blah blah blah. They don't credit how much patience, love, care and intelligence it takes to maintain an even keel and patiently guide and support people we care about.
I've had to separate the Word, the life's lessons and the unadulterated bulls h it from each other. I guess I just get a kick out of the fact that they're still playing musical chairs back there.
DeLisle was booted by Rosalie for speaking up. I dont know what he spoke up about....i do know he was forced to admit publicly that he hasnt helped people. He was forced to leave hq and went to Montana.
9 hours ago, skyrider said:
The dirty, little secret that long-standing corps do NOT want to admit.......
The "red thread" that runs through this corps posturing, hypocrisy and drivel.......
Older Corps, with no marketable or tangible skills, are........UNEMPLOYABLE.
Arrogant corps leaders would NEVER find another job where fawning followers would obey their every command.
Unemployable --- in the sense of, finding a substantial career move away from twi with adulation for who they were.
Corps who went in-residence at age 20-24 and stayed faithful 12-15 yrs to twi, spent their youth in church/cult world.
The vast majority of corps in this swath of life......did NOT further their education or marketable skill sets.
Unless one became a salesperson or self-employed..........the pay scale (to raise a family) was rather bleak.
The smart ones.......like Lonnell J0hnson (5th corps) exited early and went forward to further his education (Phd).
The musicians and orchestra.......at least, had been honing their skills during their tenure in the cult.
Others........ushered at meetings or sat on their butt.
Examples of this? Sure, let's look at L. Craig Martindale. He boasted that he could get a job with any Fortune 500 Company. On several corps meetings, lcm confronted the corps on one level and then, boasted that he could be hired into any executive position in the country. Well, after martindale was ousted by twi's lawyers for sexual predation.......what happened? Leaving in the dead of night, no forwarding address, no public announcement or farewell......martindale re-surfaced in Toledo, Ohio. He got a part-time job at Bally's fitness center.......and later, a low-level job at a UPS hub center.
Other clergy, who left during those turbulent 1986/1987 years............sold fish from a small ice truck (traveling their circuit of customers). They did this for several years UNTIL a better job came along or they attended night school and found better, gainful employment.
Harve Plat!g was twi's vice-president around 2002-2004 (?)......and he exited. Where? To a job as a mid-manager in debt collection.
John Anthony Rupp put his resume' on a public forum in February 2016. Obviously, he was "fishing" for a better opportunity. Rupp's resume' his leadership position in a "national/international company" and plenty of fluffy stuff. No bites. No offers. Rupp was resigned to stay in the cult.
There are low-level, starting jobs everywhere.........but a 40 year old corps grad (with wife and kids) finds it gut-wrenching to admit he "wasted" years of his youth. In my opinion.... there are many who HANG ONTO TWI-NOSTALGIA because it feeds their need for self-importance or those years of adulation.
Now, consider a 55-65 year old corps grad.......who just exited twi in 2017. No home. No equity. No social or community standing. Very little retirement savings or investment. Hundreds of corps leaving twi and disillusioned. What now? They need to face reality......and re-build.
But wait......a new splinter leader arises from the ashes and gives them "hope."
Rather than face reality head-on.......it's more soothing to cleave to the nostalgia of the past (embrace the new splinter).
New splinter leaders get INSTANT gratification. Position. Perks. Privilege. Payment.
The 62 year old corps grad gets to teach once every 3-months for 25 minutes to the new group......yah. Newfound self-importance. (sigh)
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter.......
The strong, independent, educated person.......has plenty of options. You see, he NEVER went into the corps where the undertow carried him far from shore. Perhaps, he/she took pfal and then moved on......no big deal. Life is full of classes and detours. The justification for higher education opens all kinds of pathways, opportunities, advancements, family choices, wealth and security. A life fulfilled.
The follower, dependent on twi.........is led down a path of servitude. He goes into the corps indoctrination program as wierwille admonished. He is scolded for not being fully-committed. He avoids higher education or opportunities that require night school or weekend training. Forty (40) years later, he finds that everything he was led to believe is a lie. The ministry is in shambles. His life is in shambles. What now? He is unemployable.
I think .... and I don't mean to insult any of them - but I really do think that those who chose to embed themselves in Way culture and work on the "business/ministry" side of the Way for all these years aren't real high achievers, they're not the "A" types they portray themselves out to be nor the real helpful servants that ministerial and pastors pursuits in the church tend to produce.
I knew several Corps who saw the exodus in the 80's as an opening up of higher level positions in the Way Tree and on staff and jumped at the chance to "go full time" - before LCM's disastrous buy-out of all the Way Corps grads to paid staff status. Those people were more than happy to step in and take over whatever the new program was going forward - and some of them were happy to be the hit-men and ball busters for any program requirements that Craig instituted. They want along as long as they could and I know a couple that are still onboard. And there's probably a lot more like that from what I've heard - perfectly happy to see Corps leave or get fired and then take their jobs over.
Guys like Harve - Ex-Mrs Weirwilles escort? ..... I first met him in '74 when he came into the Way farm for the "Word in Music" week conference we held, a Way Productions effort a la Summer School programs. He was a recent PFAL grad, and I can honestly say he went a different route, very deliberately, to get ahead in the Way. Not the sharpest knife, to be kind but he chose where to put his blade, so to speak.
All that Way-For stuff, that's not real high level achievement or great, strong character - it's Peter Principle stuff, the Dilbert mentality, but without any real professional, academic or usable talent or skill beyond doing whatever you're told to do and nothing more or less.
So yeah - they'll be unemployable to be sure but they'll find a way to make a buck or get along........which is what it was all about for some of them anyway.....there's a few in operations sides of things who know what they're doing, from what I can tell by my sources but on the business side of the Way - there's a lot of under achievers who are warming the bench and collecting a pay check, such as it is.
DeLisle was booted by Rosalie for speaking up. I dont know what he spoke up about....i do know he was forced to admit publicly that he hasnt helped people. He was forced to leave hq and went to Montana.
The dirty, little secret that long-standing corps do NOT want to admit.......
The "red thread" that runs through this corps posturing, hypocrisy and drivel.......
Older Corps, with no marketable or tangible skills, are........UNEMPLOYABLE.
Arrogant corps leaders would NEVER find another job where fawning followers would obey their every command.
Unemployable --- in the sense of, finding a substantial career move away from twi with adulation for who they were.
Corps who went in-residence at age 20-24 and stayed faithful 12-15 yrs to twi, spent their youth in church/cult world.
The vast majority of corps in this swath of life......did NOT further their education or marketable skill sets.
Unless one became a salesperson or self-employed..........the pay scale (to raise a family) was rather bleak.
The smart ones.......like Lonnell J0hnson (5th corps) exited early and went forward to further his education (Phd).
The musicians and orchestra.......at least, had been honing their skills during their tenure in the cult.
Others........ushered at meetings or sat on their butt.
(snip)
Speaking of no marketable skills – I found something that reminds me to be thankful that we got out while we were still young enough to develop good careers…this “stay at home” thing has got us rummaging through stuff in the attic (God bless those waste management folks – here comes another big load). My wife (Tonto) had me drag a heavy trunk down to the garage so she can sort through stuff…I would not have believed it if she didn’t show me the letter. It’s a rejection letter from American Airlines to me, dated March 1987 (shortly after we left TWI) - in response to the Flight Attendant application that I had sent them – and I quote “…upon careful review of your application, it has been determined that other candidates appeared to meet more of those requirements.” Darn if I had made the cut I would have been something special in the air “coffee, tea, retemories” ...I taped the letter down to the concrete driveway with some blue masking tape so the wind wouldn't blow it away and edited out any incriminating evidence.
…I don’t remember any of this !!!! shows you what time and age will do to ya.
Where to now, for JY? Seems to me there are three choices:
1. Stay with TWI in whatever role is now assigned to him.
2. Depart TWI and start his own splinter group. Not sure he'd be welcome at R&R.
3. Depart TWI and get a real job. What do you put on your resume, when you've been booted from being the (apparent) head honcho?
On 4/13/2020 at 8:47 AM, OldSkool said:
DeLisle was booted by Rosalie for speaking up. I dont know what he spoke up about....i do know he was forced to admit publicly that he hasnt helped people. He was forced to leave hq and went to Montana.
According to OldSkool...........JYDL went to Montana.
I suspect this is retribution (punishment)......dealt out by rosa-lie.
From this early report, I have no idea if this is a Region or Limb or Branch assignment......but am inclined to think that it's a State Coordinator assignment and highly doubt that it's big enough for a paid position. If Jean-Yves and Michele have to go out and get secular employment, then they are in store for a rude awakening. Life has indeed changed since they were tucked away for 31 years in a cult compound.
Maybe, rosa-lie wanted to send them close to the Canadian border and see if they'd just say, "Forget them"......and bolt into the Land of the North?
But whatever the case........no one is sent to M-O-N-T-A-N-A.....and later, becomes a serious "player" for the cult.
Yes, I saw he had been exiled to Montana. I suspect they are there licking their wounds and having a deep think.
I'm wondering where they'll be in a few months. In six months. In twelve months.
I wonder if they are expected to write some grovelly letter to Rosalie, denouncing themselves, crawling through the dirt, so that they'll be "allowed" to live in, say, Indiana or Illinois or even Kansas?
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skyrider
Whatever the "cult board" is doing.......
Whatever the past board of "trustees" ever did......
......in all my years, the "board of hypocrisy" exploited the followers....
......never saw vpw or lcm do any knowledge or power manifestations.
......none.
All of this is nothing more than manufactured spirituality.
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waysider
Well, I did hear VPW say "Lo Shanta Lamaka See Tay"...so there's that.
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T-Bone
Wow that’s a huge red flag – it seems to me like they're expecting folks to act against their own conscience. Yikes!!!
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water...Hebrews 10:22 ESV
The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith...
Holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith...I Timothy 1:5, 19 ESV
I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God. Amen…Martin Luther
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Twinky
Don't you mean, Bored of (Mis)Directors?
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skyrider
Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
And, the March 2017 letter continues.......
~~~~~~~~~~
"The fruit of our current leadership for the past decade has become increasingly apparent.
In the past 10 years we have lost over 150 Way Corps ministers. Combined with continuing small in-residence Corps classes, the overall Way Corps numbers are in a sharp decline.
The number of new graduates who stand following completion of classes is dropping. Because qualified Advanced Class candidate numbers have dropped so low, there is no longer a need to do a class every year.
There has been a steady decrease in the number of believers seeking employment at The Way International and there is a high turnover rate.
Attendance at Sunday Teaching Services at The Way International Headquarters and at on-the-field phone hookups is consistently low.
The Way International has a book value of all assets over $68 million, however believers often pay a facility fee to meet as a State or Branch, or they meet in only “budget” or “free” spaces. There are less and less full time ministers on the field and in many Regions only one full time couple in the entire Region. This inequality is non-Biblical and begs the question of how the abundant sharing is utilized. There is no transparency. (II Corinthians 8:14)
There is continued mistreatment of long-standing, faithful believers and leadership. Without dialogue and nothing resembling I Timothy 5:19-21, numerous ministers—including seasoned Officers, Region coordinators, State coordinators, Branch coordinators, and others on Headquarters Staff—have been abruptly removed, mishandled, and in several cases barred from fellowship. This is inexcusable.
The Board of Directors have refused to dialogue regarding the Biblical confrontation for which they were rebuked on August 12, 2016. The attached letters were sent asking for representatives to meet with the Board of Directors and later to attend the Region coordinator’s meetings so concerns could be effectually represented. The only option given was meeting with one couple at a time, not in a suggested Acts 15-type leadership meeting. The Board of Directors continue to move ahead unrepentant.
These are factual indications of their fruit. Additional questions need to be asked....."
~~~~~~~~~~~
Since 2007........150 corps had exited abandoned twi. [2007 - 2017]
And, at the time of this letter..........Bobby Moynihan and other corps leaders (cough, cough) want to "re-engage" with corps who left? What? Convince them against their OWN conscience? What the hell?
.
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skyrider
April 2000...........Twenty (20) years ago, martindale made his public announcement of a "one-time affair" (cough, cough).....
Today......20 years later, she still sits in a position to control others. The cult is abysmal and running on fumes......yet, indoctrination and guilt ensue that 15% of earnings MUST be sent into the cult vortex to appease "the gods." Yeah, lower case....."gods" of darkness.
With some $68 million hoarded away......what's another million or two raked away year after year. Rosalie, Donna, Bill and John are low-life, pond dwellers in Podunk, Ohio that are grifters and hypocrites. They have their reward as they walk the halls of the OSC and are greeted with adulation by "servants of the household." What a farce.
Why wasn't Bill Greene installed as twi's 5th president?
Why wasn't John Anthony Rupp chosen? Remember the guy who put his resume' out there on a public forum, February 2016.....looking for ANOTHER job? Yep, that's right. John was trying to find employment elsewhere. LOL
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waysider
It's beyond that. The tank is empty and it's coasting downhill at this point.
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socks
It's like that old analogy of the bucket of crabs all trying to get out, "crab mentality ... a metaphor derived from a pattern of behavior noted in crabs when they are trapped in a bucket. While any one crab could easily escape, its efforts will be undermined by others, ensuring the group's collective demise." (wikipedia)
Crab's on the barb-bee!
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T-Bone
true - maybe because they're all being
shellfish...I mean selfish...don't give me those crusty looks over a bad pun - this isn’t my first Bisque-o-theque ...conch you sea this whole thing has gone cray cray...it's the urchin-cy of our times, man!
Edited by T-Boneadrift on a sea of uncertain tea
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shazdancer
Here's a drive by from Shaz [waves hi]:
It is all about the money. If they are worth $68M, that's over a million and a half to play with every year. Income from the current group is small potatoes but it doesn't matter. Work the Corps and staff like slaves, keep "research" or other services down to a minimum, and live off the dividends in perpetuity. The revs "on the field" are just ....ed because they aren't getting some of this largess and they aren't getting much adulation, either. Not to mention a lot of their buddies have left. Rosalie stops anything that smacks of upsetting the status quo because it might interfere with the gravy train. She's no Bill Gates, but it's enough to live on and she gets free housekeeping. All is fine as long as the operation stays small. No more World Over the World nonsense. No more new research. Just keep everyone in line, and dump anyone who threatens otherwise.
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WordWolf
Hey, Shaz!
True- so long as they do enough to justify having a group, they can avoid lifting an additional finger and just live off the interest. The slave labor is a bonus. Rozilla is just running the clock and trying to collect benefits from twi as long as she lives. I expect the others have similar plans. Everyone except the top cadre are EXPENDABLE and receive virtually no benefits in exchange for all the work they put in. If twi manages to stay reasonably close to legal and remains small potatoes, they can avoid official notice and IRS audits. Since they don't care about God or Christians but rather for money, that's what they're focusing on. They have their reward. For now. Later, I expect an accounting will come and it will be exhaustive.
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skyrider
The dirty, little secret that long-standing corps do NOT want to admit.......
The "red thread" that runs through this corps posturing, hypocrisy and drivel.......
Older Corps, with no marketable or tangible skills, are........UNEMPLOYABLE.
Examples of this? Sure, let's look at L. Craig Martindale. He boasted that he could get a job with any Fortune 500 Company. On several corps meetings, lcm confronted the corps on one level and then, boasted that he could be hired into any executive position in the country. Well, after martindale was ousted by twi's lawyers for sexual predation.......what happened? Leaving in the dead of night, no forwarding address, no public announcement or farewell......martindale re-surfaced in Toledo, Ohio. He got a part-time job at Bally's fitness center.......and later, a low-level job at a UPS hub center.
Other clergy, who left during those turbulent 1986/1987 years............sold fish from a small ice truck (traveling their circuit of customers). They did this for several years UNTIL a better job came along or they attended night school and found better, gainful employment.
Harve Plat!g was twi's vice-president around 2002-2004 (?)......and he exited. Where? To a job as a mid-manager in debt collection.
John Anthony Rupp put his resume' on a public forum in February 2016. Obviously, he was "fishing" for a better opportunity. Rupp's resume' his leadership position in a "national/international company" and plenty of fluffy stuff. No bites. No offers. Rupp was resigned to stay in the cult.
There are low-level, starting jobs everywhere.........but a 40 year old corps grad (with wife and kids) finds it gut-wrenching to admit he "wasted" years of his youth. In my opinion.... there are many who HANG ONTO TWI-NOSTALGIA because it feeds their need for self-importance or those years of adulation.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter.......
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OldSkool
DeLisle was booted by Rosalie for speaking up. I dont know what he spoke up about....i do know he was forced to admit publicly that he hasnt helped people. He was forced to leave hq and went to Montana.
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socks
On this general topic I was chatting with someone about some other stuff, of companies and corporate cultures we'd been part of and I remembered how ungracious the Way Nash could be, as both an organization and a culture.
VP would bend over sideways to try and establish some kind of formal "this is how it's done in pro circles" protocol and get everyone hopping and skipping to get everything "right" and just - so......while keeping his good ol' boy outlaw preacher-on-a-Harley personae, pastor with a dog and a yippidee ky yae tip to his JohnDeere cap.
And then he'd end up publicly ridiculing someone for the slightest mistake, perceived or real, and embarrassing everyone involved.
The man could take the simplest, most elegantly simple thing and make it a shit fest of blame and paranoia.
People who want to follow his every utterance today forget that or excuse it, with a "but he just did that because he loved us", or "he just cared about the Word so much he cared enough to" blah blah blah. They don't credit how much patience, love, care and intelligence it takes to maintain an even keel and patiently guide and support people we care about.
I've had to separate the Word, the life's lessons and the unadulterated bulls h it from each other. I guess I just get a kick out of the fact that they're still playing musical chairs back there.
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socks
I think .... and I don't mean to insult any of them - but I really do think that those who chose to embed themselves in Way culture and work on the "business/ministry" side of the Way for all these years aren't real high achievers, they're not the "A" types they portray themselves out to be nor the real helpful servants that ministerial and pastors pursuits in the church tend to produce.
I knew several Corps who saw the exodus in the 80's as an opening up of higher level positions in the Way Tree and on staff and jumped at the chance to "go full time" - before LCM's disastrous buy-out of all the Way Corps grads to paid staff status. Those people were more than happy to step in and take over whatever the new program was going forward - and some of them were happy to be the hit-men and ball busters for any program requirements that Craig instituted. They want along as long as they could and I know a couple that are still onboard. And there's probably a lot more like that from what I've heard - perfectly happy to see Corps leave or get fired and then take their jobs over.
Guys like Harve - Ex-Mrs Weirwilles escort? ..... I first met him in '74 when he came into the Way farm for the "Word in Music" week conference we held, a Way Productions effort a la Summer School programs. He was a recent PFAL grad, and I can honestly say he went a different route, very deliberately, to get ahead in the Way. Not the sharpest knife, to be kind but he chose where to put his blade, so to speak.
All that Way-For stuff, that's not real high level achievement or great, strong character - it's Peter Principle stuff, the Dilbert mentality, but without any real professional, academic or usable talent or skill beyond doing whatever you're told to do and nothing more or less.
So yeah - they'll be unemployable to be sure but they'll find a way to make a buck or get along........which is what it was all about for some of them anyway.....there's a few in operations sides of things who know what they're doing, from what I can tell by my sources but on the business side of the Way - there's a lot of under achievers who are warming the bench and collecting a pay check, such as it is.
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rubina
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T-Bone
Speaking of no marketable skills – I found something that reminds me to be thankful that we got out while we were still young enough to develop good careers…this “stay at home” thing has got us rummaging through stuff in the attic (God bless those waste management folks – here comes another big load). My wife (Tonto) had me drag a heavy trunk down to the garage so she can sort through stuff…I would not have believed it if she didn’t show me the letter. It’s a rejection letter from American Airlines to me, dated March 1987 (shortly after we left TWI) - in response to the Flight Attendant application that I had sent them – and I quote “…upon careful review of your application, it has been determined that other candidates appeared to meet more of those requirements.” Darn if I had made the cut I would have been something special in the air “coffee, tea, retemories” ...I taped the letter down to the concrete driveway with some blue masking tape so the wind wouldn't blow it away and edited out any incriminating evidence.
…I don’t remember any of this !!!! shows you what time and age will do to ya.
American Airlines 1987 commercial
Edited by T-Bonesomething special in this post
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waysider
Now, instead of American Airlines doing what THEY do best, it's you, doing what YOU do best.
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T-Bone
you've got that right !!!! Thanks Waysider.
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Twinky
Where to now, for JY? Seems to me there are three choices:
1. Stay with TWI in whatever role is now assigned to him.
2. Depart TWI and start his own splinter group. Not sure he'd be welcome at R&R.
3. Depart TWI and get a real job. What do you put on your resume, when you've been booted from being the (apparent) head honcho?
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skyrider
According to OldSkool...........JYDL went to Montana.
I suspect this is retribution (punishment)......dealt out by rosa-lie.
From this early report, I have no idea if this is a Region or Limb or Branch assignment......but am inclined to think that it's a State Coordinator assignment and highly doubt that it's big enough for a paid position. If Jean-Yves and Michele have to go out and get secular employment, then they are in store for a rude awakening. Life has indeed changed since they were tucked away for 31 years in a cult compound.
Maybe, rosa-lie wanted to send them close to the Canadian border and see if they'd just say, "Forget them"......and bolt into the Land of the North?
But whatever the case........no one is sent to M-O-N-T-A-N-A.....and later, becomes a serious "player" for the cult.
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Twinky
Yes, I saw he had been exiled to Montana. I suspect they are there licking their wounds and having a deep think.
I'm wondering where they'll be in a few months. In six months. In twelve months.
I wonder if they are expected to write some grovelly letter to Rosalie, denouncing themselves, crawling through the dirt, so that they'll be "allowed" to live in, say, Indiana or Illinois or even Kansas?
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