I feel that we are not getting anywhere twinky- if you want to find reasons why sabbath is insignificant, you will find them
and we will be debating on this till the cows come home. I have done all i can but it seems some of the things I have said
just goes over your head.
Waxit, this is why I asked you on the other thread to tell us your story, how and why you came to believe what you do about sabbath.
Arguing the logic of this or that doesn't convince people. Of anything. Anytime.
Stories CAN, however, accomplish your purpose powerfully.
If you've already shared your story about this conversion, I obviously missed it.
But YOU matter. I want to understand YOU.
Please tell us your story about coming to believe in the importance of keeping the sabbath.
Please tell us your story about coming to believe in the importance of keeping the sabbath.
God's story- The truth of God's word is more important.
My story is simply this
I read the book called "God's plan for salvation: - I meditated on the bible verses
which i either never understood before or never seen before and it hit me like a ton of rocks spiritually
I repented because i could clearly see what God's word is showing me
This is my story- what more can I tell you
12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath."
3 He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread — which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
NIV
Jesus Christ as the Son of Man relates Jesus Christ to common mortal man. The Pharisees after continually accusing Jesus and his followers of not following their pharisees mindset of the Sabbath being a burden while condemning the innocent. Jesus Christ says this day is not a burden, while desiring mercy or a blessing through the Sabbath day instead of this day being a day of condemnation and sacrifice.
Please tell us your story about coming to believe in the importance of keeping the sabbath.
I will be pretty soon gone from gsc- if people want to communicate with me - they can pm me
The public forum is a waste of my time- just invites people to nit pick and poke comments against me
You cannot be a part of the covenant relationship with God under the new covenant if you do not keep all of
God's commandments. People who ignore the 7th day sabbath miss out on the new covenant relationship with God
in Christ
But for the last time Rocky, i will tell you whether it means anything to you or not
if you refuse to keep any of God's commndments not just the love commandments - any of God's commandment
including the 7th day sabbath, you do not have a relationship with God
1 John 2:3
He that saith, I know him (false relationship), and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
The sabbath keeping commandment is especially important in regards to a relationship with God
Whether you understand or not - I am going to let you know the importance of "keeping all the commandments"
including the 2 greatest commandments - the 10 commandments (including te 7th day sabbath keeping commandment)
A covenant law is such that in return from the promise of God,we on our part accept to keep all his commandments
I am thankful that when and if i do fall into sin upon sincere repentance,
Galatians 3:29King James Version (KJV)
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
God first made a covenant with Abraham- Jesus Christ was the promised seed-
God also showed Abraham the stars in the heaven (spiritual seed -spiritual descendents of faithful Abraham
and like Abraham, we keep all the commandments of God under the new covenant relationship in Christ (christians)
Since we who are in Christ are the spiritual seed of Abraham
A covenant law is irrevocable since it is by promise- the condition in which the promise is
activated is we keep our part of the deal by keeping the commandments of God
We cannot add to it- (by keeping sunday as the sabbath) or subtract from it by ignoring the 7th
day sabbath. Christians miss out on the relationship with God when they willfiully or ignorantly
do not keep any of God's commandments. In this case the 7th day sabbath keeping commandment
week in week out
What makes you doubt that Twinky has a brain previously
Perhaps you should check yours for doubting others just because they hold a different view
Sorry Waxit, but I have complimented her even more than I have complimented you. Now Waxit please read my previous posts here as it relates to the views of the Pharisees on the days of Sabbath, where I quote from actual scriptures instead of ignoring them. I am sorry, but you will not be able to bring diversity between me and other posters here. It is clear that you are trying now. NO, I do not have a different view on this and many other biblical subjects compared to Twinky.
But for the last time Rocky, i will tell you whether it means anything to you or not
if you refuse to keep any of God's commndments not just the love commandments - any of God's commandment
including the 7th day sabbath, you do not have a relationship with God
How is that at all about Gabe?
I'm not nitpicking.
Stories can communicate powerfully and effectively when/where just telling people that you know they're doing it wrong doesn't get the message across that you wanted to get across.
At some point, perhaps when/if you get frustrated enough with lack of response to your preaching, you might explore the idea of trying to express what really motivated you to make the decision in your life.
It's a ministry of reconciliation, isn't it?
How can you reconcile people to God if you are so frustrated with them that you can't tolerate their feedback to you?
I will be pretty soon gone from gsc- if people want to communicate with me - they can pm me
The public forum is a waste of my time- just invites people to nit pick and poke comments against me
You cannot be a part of the covenant relationship with God under the new covenant if you do not keep all of
God's commandments. People who ignore the 7th day sabbath miss out on the new covenant relationship with God
in Christ
But for the last time Rocky, i will tell you whether it means anything to you or not
if you refuse to keep any of God's commndments not just the love commandments - any of God's commandment
including the 7th day sabbath, you do not have a relationship with God
The Apostle Paul had a story. By the way that story developed, he (and many others) came to realize there was a better way than persecuting Gentiles and Christians.
What's YOUR story?
What happened in your life that opened your eyes to the wonder of how important the sabbath was?
It may have been associated chronologically with you reading certain scriptures, but what was the something that happened to give you the "AH HA" moment when you "got it?"
I will be pretty soon gone from gsc- if people want to communicate with me - they can pm me
The public forum is a waste of my time- just invites people to nit pick and poke comments against me
You cannot be a part of the covenant relationship with God under the new covenant
if you do not keep all of God's commandments.
People who ignore the 7th day sabbath miss out on the new covenant relationship with God in Christ
But for the last time Rocky, i will tell you whether it means anything to you or not
if you refuse to keep any of God's commndments not just the love commandments - any of God's commandment
including the 7th day sabbath, you do not have a relationship with God
(snip)
Hi Waxit,
I am very puzzled by your follow-up posts after Rocky asked you to tell your story...If you remember, I asked you something similar - along the same lines as Rocky back on May 2nd:
On 5/2/2020 at 7:14 PM, T-Bone said:
(snip)
Waxit, what I am asking is why do you feel keeping the Sabbath is so important to you?
Can you say why it is so important without referring to scripture?
So to be clear - I am not asking you for any scripture references nor am I asking why you think it should be important to everyone else.
For something to be important to you – it must have changed your life. How?
By the way, there are no wrong answers because of the way I’ve asked the questions.
Rocky has shared some good things on the importance of sharing YOUR story…I share a brief story of myself in my profile – in the "about me" tab – it’s just two simple paragraphs – but I’ve also supplemented and expanded on that over the years in various posts about many of those aha moments…
The reason I asked you why the Sabbath was so important and how did it change your life was over something you said on April 13th:
On 4/13/2020 at 1:27 PM, Waxit said:
I do not want the opinion of anyone else because I frequently get misunderstood
I prefer to dialogue one on one
I’m just trying to be helpful here – you might want to ask yourself why people misunderstand you and if there’s something you can do to remedy that.
I do that quite a bit on myself . One of the biggest things I’ve learned at Grease Spot (and more so here than anywhere else) is that we all have “filters” (like our set of beliefs, experiences, worldview, etc.). These “filters” have to do with processing communication – both in the sending and receiving of information:
Sending information: when we say someone has no filter it really means the person just says what they think without considering the audience or situation.
Receiving information: on the flip side – when it comes to listening “filters” may be in place to remove, block, alter or in some way restrict unwanted material – like things that don’t jibe with our worldview.
I don’t think it’s possible to remove all “filters” in communication. But I do think it’s possible to adjust some filters. On a personal note, I’ve always been a very inquisitive person. I am aware of the many times in my life where I’ve opened up more on some narrow outlook I had on something. For example, over the years of dialoging with a variety of folks on Grease Spot (some Christian, agnostic, atheist, Jewish, and New Age - there's more viewpoints too - that's all I can think of right now) I’ve reevaluated what I think of the Bible – and oddly enough it has also heightened my interest in Jesus Christ. So when it comes to doctrine and practice, what someone is preaching or teaching…whatever – it all goes through these “filters” – what I know of the Bible, what makes sense to me and seems to resonate with the spirit of God within me.
Granted sometimes people may have misunderstood you.
But sometimes you may have misunderstood others.
I am curious about something... Is Grease Spot the only place where you try to get your message out?
Do you share your message on other online forums as well as talking to people in person?
If Grease Spot has been such a waste of time then why have you persisted this long - from March 31st and some 17 pages until now?
I mentioned above about someone having no filter and just says what they think without considering the audience or situation. Have you really thought about your audience at Grease Spot?
Are you aware that Grease Spot is made up of a lot of folks who felt that wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership demanded blind and unquestioned obedience?
Are you aware that Grease Spot is made up of a lot of folks who felt that wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership acted arrogantly superior and disdainful toward others?
Are you aware that Grease Spot is made up of a lot of folks who felt that wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership devalued others as being inferior, incapable or unworthy?
Are you aware that Grease Spot is made up of a lot of folks who felt that wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership did not seem to listen well to what others said and that communication was really a one-way street in the form of their dictates and "spiritual" pronouncements?
Are you aware that Grease Spot is made up of a lot of folks who felt that wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership acted as if they had the answer to man’s spiritual problem?
Am I saying you are like a dangerous cult leader? No – of course not ! So what am I saying?
I’m saying you might consider adjusting your output filter – taking into account your audience at Grease Spot – since the way you often come across seems to be reminiscent of wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership - a prime example is the part of your post I quoted above – it’s actually counterproductive to your “mission” (whatever that is) because you’re turning people off.
I’ve said it before – and I’ll say it again – I believe you do have a lot to offer Grease Spot. That’s not to dismiss what you think your mission is here – just saying there’s more to you than just that. That's the point of telling your story.
We are certainly complex creatures – and I guess we all like to take shortcuts with early impressions of others – maybe make a few mistakes in assumptions or judgements. In that regard we are cognitive misers - “the human mind is considered to be a cognitive miser due to the tendency of people to think and solve problems in simpler and less effortful ways rather than in more sophisticated and more effortful ways, regardless of intelligence.”
I try to accept people as they are - warts and all – and I hope they accept me the same way. Sometimes it takes a lot of work – maybe make some adjustments to the input and output filters.
Of late, I’ve tried to streamline my comments to probe and criticize your method of interpreting a verse - but I was not criticizing you!
You should not take that as a personal attack or that you are in any way inferior - or superior to me. If it gives you any satisfaction I want you to know because of your passion on this thread you’ve got me reading up on the Sabbath in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - - it’s only a six page article but it takes me a longer than normal time because ( besides other responsibilities I have to family and neighbors during this pandemic ) I like to look up every chapter and verse reference – so it takes a while of checking out various translations, Hebrew & Greek words, and prayerfully contemplating the passage. When I’m done with that article I’m going to read the eight page article in - Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible
Now don’t get your hopes up on making another convert - I just want to let you know I don’t like to be force-fed. And I can assure you my filters mentioned above pretty much guarantees I’m not going to be gung ho on Sabbath keeping anytime in the foreseeable future. However, you’ve inspired me to expand my awareness and respect for the spiritual significance the Sabbath has with some people...
And before you go patting yourself on the back – I was serious when I said you’re turning off folks – so the reason I got into reading up on the Sabbath isn’t because of anything in particular you’ve said. As I said earlier, I am very inquisitive by nature - and it was for the strong feelings you expressed over the Sabbath that got my curiosity up…And btw I have intentionally tried to maintain either a neutral tone or a slightly abrasive tone so that you would keep me at arm’s length – that way I had hopes you might feel I wasn’t threatening your independence or interests through some guise of friendliness.
I believe in the transformative process of open and honest discussions…hope you stick around.
Waxit certainly got us talking and having a think about why we think what we think. It's been an interesting discussion at times, and I've been glad to review my own understandings and investigate other parts of the Bible. It's all about seeing the big picture, isn't it? God's heart and concern for all his people. And a rest for his people is what is promised, many times, of which the sabbath (or day of rest, particular day unspecified) is just a part.
He hasn't convinced anyone, in part because he hasn't made the effort to touch hearts and genuinely listen to other views than his own. It was more an imposition - Way-style --> "This is what you must do. Because I say (that God says) so." Without seeing, or caring, that others of us see that God says something different.
I wonder if he will try to convince other groups of his belief? Here is a link to the official stance of Jehovah's Witnesses, who do believe in assembling together and having a day of rest, but again, don't say it should be a particular day of the week. Maybe Waxit could try in a JW forum. https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201109/A-Weekly-Holy-Day-Is-It-Required/
Edited by Twinky Link didn't include itself. Weird.
It's my view that all the Big Ten commandments, and all the following commandments, are just like that: Statutory Instruments, further defining what is meant by the foundational law(s) but not overriding them.
You are right- the big 10 commanement that you call statutory instruments doesnt override the greatest commandment/foundational laws -whatever you want to call it defines and establishes the foundational laws. Have a look at the bible verses that I am bringing to your attention again
This is what I have been trying to tell you and your buddies in gsc again and again which is going right over your heads.
You guys are not telling me anything new ( most of chrisianity including twi are saying the same thing about 7th day sabbath)
Always remember that the commandments- include the 4th commandment- which is sabbath keeping on the 7th day
not on any day that you want or your church has decreed
In regards to your legal knowledge that the ancilliary statutory instruments defines and by implication establishes the main law
take a good look at what the bible (God's authority) says through John the beloved apostle:
1 John 5: 3
3 For this is the love of God (greatest commandment), that we keep his commandments (staturory instruments) and his commandments are not grievous. ( God's precise commandments come to us for our benefit that we sin not)
Does the day matter? Yes! Why because God said it? He has instituted this special day and time to meet with us from
heaven. You dont believe it, I dont care what you believe. I go by God's word and God's word only
Please examine what Paul one of the greatest apostles is saying:
Romans 3:31 - (hopefully this verse wont go over your head- it woulnt suprise me if it did- because you wont be able to answer Rom 3:31)
prove me wrong if you can)
31 Do we then make void the law (ignore the commandments -includes the 7th day sabbath commandment) through faith?
God forbid (very strong language): yea, we establish the law ( we keep the commanments-incudes the 7th day sabbath commanement)- exactly like would you said above
You guys have been telling me nothing new that i dont already know and nothing you guys have told me has gone over my head-
remember i was where you are guys still are now until God opened my eyes and I can see clearly
the relevance and significance of keeping the 7th day commandment because I love God with all my heart
I am not going to question His wisdom or authority.
I do not think it is possible to say that any "original" sabbath day was on any particular day of the week. In fact, I'd say the task is absolutely impossible.
This is absolutely incorrect- I have already shown you in detail why the original 7th day is still the saturday of our modern calendar
which you have blissfully ignored (maybe you haven read the thread and that's why you keep harping on that it is impossible to know
which day is the original 7th day of the week
Sorry Waxit, but I have complimented her even more than I have complimented you. Now Waxit please read my previous posts here as it relates to the views of the Pharisees on the days of Sabbath, where I quote from actual scriptures instead of ignoring them. I am sorry, but you will not be able to bring diversity between me and other posters here. It is clear that you are trying now. NO, I do not have a different view on this and many other biblical subjects compared to Twinky.
You dont have to compliment me but you dont have to be indirectly snarky to me either- you cannot compliment twinky
all you like but that doesnt mean she is necessarily right. It's just that she thinks the same way as you do so dont get smart with
me ok, just because i have a different viewpoint
Waxit, it is Saturday. It is not yet sunset in the country in which you are living. Why have you been posting here for the last two hours, which would be since about 4pm your local time? Isn't that "work" that is forbidden on the sabbath (today being Saturday)?
ou are right- the big 10 commanement that you call statutory instruments doesnt override the greatest commandment/foundational laws -whatever you want to call it defines and establishes the foundational laws. Have a look at the bible verses that I am bringing to your attention again
This is what I have been trying to tell you and your buddies in gsc again and again which is going right over your heads.
You guys are not telling me anything new ( most of chrisianity including twi are saying the same thing about 7th day sabbath)
Always remember that the commandments- include the 4th commandment- which is sabbath keeping on the 7th day
not on any day that you want or your church has decreed
In regards to your legal knowledge that the ancilliary statutory instruments defines and by implication establishes the main law
take a good look at what the bible (God's authority) says through John the beloved apostle:
1 John 5: 3
3 For this is the love of God (greatest commandment), that we keep his commandments (staturory instruments) and his commandments are not grievous.
But you still haven't accounted for whenever you are counting from. The seventh day from when? And how can you possibly know what day the earth was created? Which day? The day that the earth was formless and void? The day the sun shone for the first time? The day the first man walked on earth? You are obviously counting literal days; do you think that? A literal day when (eg) animals were formed and roamed the earth? How can you say thevery day that some aspect of the earth's creation was on some specific day, when there were no people around to keep records? Where do ancient fossil records fit into your computation? Most people think that the earth developed in stages, periods, sometimes lasting thousands or millions of year - not literal 24 hr periods.
You know Australian aborigines trace their history back tens of thousands of years (and they have written records (drawings that can be carbon-dated) to prove it). In the UK it's proven that (eg) Stonehenge is tens of thousands of years old (carbon-dating from not just the Stones and debris found at the foot of the Stones, but from other artefacts found nearby) (Stonehenge is very much older than merely the famous stones, which are quite new in comparison with the entire site).
My church (unlike yours) does not decree any day, but we choose to meet together on a particular day. Other churches choose other days, perhaps because of other work or care commitments. Would you condemn all health workers for working on the sabbath (whatever day is chosen for that)? I wouldn't! I'd say they honour God by their service and honour God in their off-duty time as well. After all, God didn't condemn Levites for ministering on the reserved day.
Why do you feel it’s necessary to insert “(includes 7th day sabbayh)” in certain verses?
How would you feel if someone inserted “(includes 7th day sabbayh)” in other verses like:
“because by the works of the Law ( includes 7th day sabbayh) no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law (includes 7th day sabbayh) comes the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:20
My friend- this is the last time ever, I will ever reply to you again - i mean it- you can go and on- you will not get another reply- no offence
we can still share clean puny jokes but no more sabbath discussion wih you- so you are wasting your time by taking what i share with others
have no idea what i share because you either ignore what i am saying- goes right over your head or you dint bother read it my replies in its entirety
so make this the last time- i will skip anything you share- in fact i am winding down - i certainly wont be reading your replies
Listen up and pay attention: (no offence- but you need to pay attention- or you will be asking me rabbit hole questions)- dont take it personnaly but it's
annoying when people ask me things without understanding what the bible is saying- by all means use whatever software you are having to verify it for yourself
and instead of undermining me and making me look like an idiot
Your quote:
Why do you feel it’s necessary to insert “(includes 7th day sabbayh)” in certain verses?
First of all it's the wrong question- who am I to insert verses in what Gd has said- no one has the right to add or subtract from the bible verses- se revelation
The question should be "why do you say it includes the 7th day sabbath"
Whenever is refers to the commandments of God- it goes without saying that it is all the commandments of God
including the love commandments and the 10 commandments -they are inter linked- I have been saying this over and over again- it's like talking to a wall Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not steal (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not lie- bear false witness (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not commit adultery (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not tell lies (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not worship other gods(of course that goes without saying)
So in the same way: pay attention now
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means keep the 7th day sabbath keeping - 4th commanement???????????????
Your qute: How would you feel if someone inserted “(includes 7th day sabbayh)” in other verses like:
“because by the works of the Law ( includes 7th day sabbayh) no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law (includes 7th day sabbayh) comes the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:20
Please understand Rom 3:20 in the KJV and any other translation that says : the works of the law . The word "the" has already been erroneously been inserted by
the translators. So, No -I dont have to feel anything.... The translators have already added it to confuse people like you and many others
Rom 3:20 does not refer to the commandments of God- This is a major translation error that has confused a lot of christians
The words "the" has been inserted twice by the translators not me- instead of works of law ( man made traditions) they have made it "the works of the law"
so how can I tell? If you look it up in the original greek - Romans 3: 20 should be "works of law" man made traditions - original greek "nomos"
If it was "the works of the law" (God's commandment) then original greek would be "tou nomos"
So if you understand it correctly translated according to orignal greek-
Romans 3:20 makes complete sense- I dont have to feel anything if clowns monkey around with the bible verses and you dont discern it- then of
couse you are going to ge the wrong end of the stick
So Romans 3: 20
“because by works of Law (includes all man made traditions- includes sunday keeping) no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law (God's commandments including 7th day sabbath- comes the knowledge of sin .”
|
So now Rom 3:20 makes perfect sense- by man made traditions, shall no flesh be justified - for through God's commanments- you will come to the knowledge
of when you are sinning. So in this case by you keeping man's traditions- sunday keeping- when you compare it with God's commandments- that that says shoult keep the
7th day sabbath, you will see that you are sinning- week in and week out. The wages of sin is death- with no recognition of sin and repentance from sin, there is death
in your relationship with God- That's baaadd news- but you are welcome to continuing ignoring the 7th day sabbath and one day face Matt 7:22- entirely up to you
Sayonara and Asta La Vista- Dont waste your time replying- Ihave had enough of you- I certainly wont waste your time- you have exhausted your time corresponding with me
Over and out
My friend- this is the last time ever, I will ever reply to you again - i mean it- you can go and on- you will not get another reply- no offence
we can still share clean puny jokes but no more sabbath discussion wih you- so you are wasting your time by taking what i share with others
have no idea what i share because you either ignore what i am saying- goes right over your head or you dint bother read it my replies in its entirety
so make this the last time- i will skip anything you share- in fact i am winding down - i certainly wont be reading your replies
Listen up and pay attention: (no offence- but you need to pay attention- or you will be asking me rabbit hole questions)- dont take it personnaly but it's
annoying when people ask me things without understanding what the bible is saying- by all means use whatever software you are having to verify it for yourself
and instead of undermining me and making me look like an idiot
Your quote:
Why do you feel it’s necessary to insert “(includes 7th day sabbayh)” in certain verses?
First of all it's the wrong question- who am I to insert verses in what Gd has said- no one has the right to add or subtract from the bible verses- se revelation
The question should be "why do you say it includes the 7th day sabbath"
Whenever is refers to the commandments of God- it goes without saying that it is all the commandments of God
including the love commandments and the 10 commandments -they are inter linked- I have been saying this over and over again- it's like talking to a wall Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not steal (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not lie- bear false witness (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not commit adultery (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not tell lies (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not worship other gods(of course that goes without saying)
So in the same way: pay attention now
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means keep the 7th day sabbath keeping - 4th commanement???????????????
(SNIP)...
Technically, when you quoted a passage and then placed within it “(includes 7th day sabbayh)” YOU are the one adding to the Bible. Inserting that parenthetical phrase as you did is a pretentious way to try and validate your point of view – and is more or less equivalent to just saying it out loud. I am sorry but your futile attempts to preach on “no one has the right to add or subtract from the bible verses” are rendered ineffectual by the hypocrisy of you doing just that.
It’s not necessary for you to resort to such desperate means to try and get your point across – since you have already succeeded (ages and pages ago ) in making me understand what you are saying – keeping the Sabbath is important to you for whatever pat answers you’ve given – and shy of you telling us more than just some brief personal story of how you’ve come to this position. I’ve got no problem with that – I think it’s wonderful – for you.
I also understand you’ve been trying to get me to see and/or agree that keeping the Sabbath is also important for everyone else for whatever reasons you’ve mentioned. That I have a problem with, since you seem to have a tendency to ignore the immediate context of verses, read your Sabbath bias into verses, and collapse contexts (where two or more unrelated verses are treated as if they belonged together).
Maybe you didn't mean to come across this way - but your posts give me the idea that you must think you are better or more important than me and have a right to tell me what to do – trying to browbeat me into agreeing with you – attempting to lord it over me. Perhaps I wasn’t clear on something – Jesus Christ is my Lord. And besides that – I think it’s rather presumptuous, arrogant, and egotistical on your part to expect me to simply ignore the plain sense of scripture, logic, personal conscientious beliefs and the spirit of God within.
Waxit, - when you said “Whenever is refers to the commandments of God- it goes without saying that it is all the commandments of God including the love commandments and the 10 commandments -they are inter linked- I have been saying this over and over again- it's like talking to a wall” you are also expressing your point of view... You know, I feel like I’m also talking to a wall – since I’ve already offered an explanation at your request -
onMay 20th you asked
On 5/20/2020 at 1:19 PM, Waxit said:
The bible shows where we are spiritually.
From the following verses, it is clear the importance of commandent keeping (includes 7th day Sabbath)
1 John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
How do you explain the above verses in light of your anti sabbath stance?
and I replied to your request on the same day:
On 5/20/2020 at 3:49 PM, T-Bone said:
I beg to differ – “includes 7th day Sabbath” (which I put in bold red of your quote) - or even just the word "Sabbath" is NOT mentioned or even alluded to in I John 2: 3 & 4 - it seems to me you are trying to force your assumption into this discussion...So I refuse to dignify yourloaded questionwith a response - instead I will re-frame the question in a straight forward manner - what are his "commandments" mentioned in I John?
The word “commandments” is indeed intriguing – and should warrant the attention of Bible students. Let’s use Scripture to interpret Scripture – I believe clarification as to what “commandments” refers to may be gathered from the immediate context as well as the greater context…please allow me to quote more of this chapter, and of II John after which I will humbly offer an explanation.
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. 8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. 9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. 10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes…I John 2: 3- 11 NASB
4 I was very glad to find some of your children walking in truth, just as we have received commandment to do from the Father. 5 Now I ask you, lady, not as though I were writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it…II John 4 – 6 NASB
== == == == == ==
In I John 2:7, when John says “I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard” he is probably using word play to reinforce the meaning of “commandment”. Though John does not say what the commandment is in I John, he does clearly state what it is in II John 5 & 6 (see above text quote) – it is the commandment to love…John saying the commandment was “old” may refer to the Old Testament commands to love in Leviticus 19:18 “…you shall love your neighbor as yourself…” and in Deuteronomy 6:5 “…You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…”. The command that we love one another seems to be consistent with directives given elsewhere in the New Testament (see Matt. 22: 39; John 13: 35; 15:12; Rom. 13:10; Gal. 5:13; Eph. 4: 2; I Thess. 4:9; Heb. 13:1; James 2:8; I Peter 1:22; 2:17; 4: 8; I John 3:16, 17, 23; 4: 11, 21).
Though I don’t see any directives or mandatory obligation to keep the Sabbath in the epistles of I John or II John – you are certainly free to think that there are.
And I will leave you with the same sentiment I expressed at the end of my post quoted above: While I don’t see any connection between “the commandments” in John’s epistles and keeping the Sabbath - you are certainly free to think that “the commandments” in the epistles of John are interlinked with keeping the Sabbath.
But you still haven't accounted for whenever you are counting from. The seventh day from when?
Fair enough- it's not always negative from you- sometimes you do ask questions-
I was about to give up on you because it was heading no where and another rabbit hole
Thank you for remaining calm with me and asking questions that concern you that can give
definte pointers why God wants to keep the 7th day sabbath-
If Jesus Christ sacrifice every drop of His blood , die a very shameful and cruel death- unimaginable
torture - is it too much to ask to keep His 7th day commandment Exodus 20:8-11
Where did you ever get the idea that the 7th Sabbath day is for the OT only- that's what satan wants you to
believe- a lie from the pit of hell believe
I have already showed you how the disciples of jesus Christ- Mary Magdalene and the other woman
honoured the 7th day sabbath even at the expense of not anointing Jesus Christ when they came to
the tomb where Joseph Arimathea did a wonderful thing of wrapping the body of Jesus Christ
carefully. They left because sabbath was approaching- they had to be back at sunset
and they came back after sabbath- where was this? In the new Testament- when post crucifixion
Did you now sabbath is mentioned in 10 times in the book of acts- i covered this but this has gone
over your head because you have a strong anti sabbath stance?
I will cover next time in Hebrews where there is no doubt at all- 7th day sabbath is the recommedned
practise and you will see how strongly God wants us to keep the 7th day sabbath. Remind me in case
i forget
But I will answer your question below:
I can only do my best and pray for you that God Himself will enlighten you:
This is the last time- I will explain to you how the present 7th day of the week (saturday) is the original 7th day when
God created the world and created the sabbath for man to enjoy fellowship with Him.
Please keep this and chew over this and take it to God in prayer
Explanation of why the 7th day of the week is our present saturday
The seven day weekly cycle was established by God in Gen 2:1-2 and is not obscured and is not tied to patterns
or alignment of stars, sun or moon. It is a continous serial counting of days one after another from the time God set it
in motion -1st day of the week to 7th day of the week and it is unbroken till our present day.
The fact that the days of the week have pagan names doesnt alter the sequence from 1st day- Sunday to 7th day Saturday
The only calendar that people had from the time God set the weekly pattern was day 1 to day 7until the babylonians
So the babylonians -the earliest civilization adopted this weekly cycle that people were used to this- initially it was day 1 to day 7 weekly cycle -
which was was started by God to this present date.
Later on the Bablonians began to number the months -1st month, 2 month,3 month to 12th and according to one complete solar cycle
(365 days) according to the rotation of the earth around the sun- 12 months. I dont know what names they would have given to specific days
but you can see even in the bible Nisan was the first month and it is the babylonian equivalent of what God called Abib
Ezra the priest during the time of the jews in captivity in Babylon saw no need to change the jewish calendar and
adopted the Babylonian calendar -All through this time- the 7th day sabbath is being kept
From 46 bc upto 1582 ad- The western world adopted the Julian Calendar- This is when we got the eqivalent names of the days and months
Sun day being 1st day (very important in the roman culture- sun worsip) through to Saturday (names after saturn) Saturday was Named after the Roman god and planet Saturn, Saturday is the only day of the week that retained its Roman origin in English
Julian calendar was an improvement only on account of the fact in that it kept the months in sync with the season.
The weekly cycle was still the same- 1st day to 7th day still the same
In 1582 ad- the old Julian calendar which was 10 days out of sync with the solar system
was replaced by the Gregorian calendar . which is what we have today, The Gregorian calendar
removed the 10 days which was out of sync- so the chop was made on Thursday Oct 4, 1582
so the next day which was supposed to be Friday, Oct 5th 1582 became Friday, Oct 15th, 1582
so theweekly cycle was still the same from the time God started it to the present day- 1st day -Sunday to 7th day Saturday
If the above is not good enough, then I am sorry- I believe God is very wise, he wouldnt leave us wondering whether the seventh
day that He commanded us to obey is still the original seventh day. You and I know God knows everything way before we
come across the problem. What He commands us to do - he will ensure that we can work it out
Did you all the rulers of this world- everyone is in God's control? God is in absolute control of everyhing but the one thing
He will never do is to force us to believe something- we are not robots, he gave us free will choice as he gave Adam & Eve
but they were deceived. Did He give them all the information they needed regarding the tree of life and the tree of good and evil?
What makes you think he will do any less to whave wondering if our saturday is indeed the original 7th day. Of course not
You roll your eyes too much and wonder abot what about this and what about that and everything else
in the 100 billion galaxies that God created. Relax and pray to God, I say this to you sincerely with all my heart- do not let anyone
put peer pressure to confirm what they want you to think- I know that I am the last person you will listen to - because sometimes
I can be a bit "nasty" - God is still working on me to bring patience, His love- I was a complete wreck after the beasts at TWI
but I thank God that He "opened" my eyes - i say this not to brag but just to attest that when someone cries out God- He is tender,loving
and it is the real mccoy- I felt the presence of Jesus Christ- you can pooh pooh -all you like- no doubt many will read this- and be very sarcastic
and no doubt flatter (peer pressure -satan will be actively working thru them so in some way you will continue to hold on and the tragedy is
everyone will face judgement and the prognosis is not good for people who have willfully ignored the sabbath
you so you allow yourself to be decieved- I have absolutely nothing to gain- believe it or not, if you are reading this,
after all the mud slinging we had- I am reaching out to love- I am surprised that not one person has honestly gone to God- to spend time
with me- in saying what if Waxit is right- what if i truly face Matt 7:22
I can only point to things but God the Father is the only that can open your eyes
I have previously provided the below information to help Waxit understand how the Pharisees often promoted the days of Sabbath. The question now is will Waxit actually read these verse along with teaching comments?Please read these verses Waxit.
On 5/27/2020 at 2:28 PM, Mark Sanguinetti said:
Waxit needs to look at the context of Jesus telling the Pharisees who were accusing him and his followers for working on the Sabbath, that "the Son of Man is also the Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus said this because the Pharisees were accusing Jesus' followers of perhaps even working on the day of Sabbath.
Quote
Mark 2:23-28
23 Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. 24 And the Pharisees said to Him, "Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?"
25 But He said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: 26 how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?"
27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."
NKJV
Here are the other verses where Jesus said he was the "Lord of theSabbath".
Quote
Luke 6:1-11
6 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2 Some of the Pharisees asked, "Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
3 Jesus answered them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions." 5 Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of theSabbath."
6 On another Sabbath he went into the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was shriveled. 7 The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath. 8 But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Get up and stand in front of everyone." So he got up and stood there.
9 Then Jesus said to them, "I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?"
10 He looked around at them all, and then said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He did so, and his hand was completely restored. 11 But they were furious and began to discuss with one another what they might do to Jesus.
NIV
Calm down, Waxit. We've all had our journeys out of TWI. Some of us have been very badly abused. Some still have good memories. Your journey is your journey; do share the bits that you think will help people. You don't know where others have "been" - I do know my own experiences of life during TWI and particularly the enormous injury afterwards (that I have told you about) have enabled me to reach out to others with much greater compassion. If you permit it, God will enable you to bless and help others, when you share your journey (but only to help others and show that recovery is possible when they are "down the bottom of the well." - ie, not share because your story is better, worse, more/less lurid, etc - the story is how God rescued you, not about you, glorify Him not you).
People here have tried to understand where you are coming from, and have asked you questions, both to understand you and perhaps to help you. Your responses are often repetitive, hectoring, lecturing, generally unresponsive and less than respectful. Would it be true to say that you think those who disagree with you do not love God? Despite what they do, believe, how they act - they will be banished for ever?
Please, Waxit, have a bigger view of God. He sent Jesus to die horrifically so that all might live - not be banished. All have sinned, all have done wrong, and all will continue to do wrong, despite best efforts otherwise. God allows us to go wrong, time after time. He knows we (all) are imperfect, we are foolish, we don't understand enough. He's not looking to catch us out - he's looking to draw us (all) in. If people do their best but it's wrong, or at least, not perfect, does a loving God slam the door? If a child does wrong, does a parent banish the child from the house? Or look on, smile, and be glad that he has a child, even though the child does wrong?
We bring JOY to God, Waxit. He smiles on us with pleasure. He doesn't slam the door on us.
It appears that in all his posts he writes as if he is GOD, rather than as himself telling his story of why he believes the sabbath is important.
That certainly would explain why nobody here seems to have been convinced by anything Waxit preached at us.
Most disappointing.
21 minutes ago, Twinky said:
People here have tried to understand where you are coming from, and have asked you questions, both to understand you and perhaps to help you. Your responses are often repetitive, hectoring, lecturing, generally unresponsive and less than respectful. Would it be true to say that you think those who disagree with you do not love God? Despite what they do, believe, how they act - they will be banished for ever?
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Twinky
Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time
WordWolf
"The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearl
WordWolf
Waxit: "The 7th day Sabbath was universally accepted by all and observed by both Jews,Gentiles and the apostles/leadership Acts 13: 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the
Rocky
Waxit, this is why I asked you on the other thread to tell us your story, how and why you came to believe what you do about sabbath.
Arguing the logic of this or that doesn't convince people. Of anything. Anytime.
Stories CAN, however, accomplish your purpose powerfully.
If you've already shared your story about this conversion, I obviously missed it.
But YOU matter. I want to understand YOU.
Please tell us your story about coming to believe in the importance of keeping the sabbath.
Thanks
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Waxit
God's story- The truth of God's word is more important.
My story is simply this
I read the book called "God's plan for salvation: - I meditated on the bible verses
which i either never understood before or never seen before and it hit me like a ton of rocks spiritually
I repented because i could clearly see what God's word is showing me
This is my story- what more can I tell you
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Mark Sanguinetti
Jesus Christ as the Son of Man relates Jesus Christ to common mortal man. The Pharisees after continually accusing Jesus and his followers of not following their pharisees mindset of the Sabbath being a burden while condemning the innocent. Jesus Christ says this day is not a burden, while desiring mercy or a blessing through the Sabbath day instead of this day being a day of condemnation and sacrifice.
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Waxit
I will be pretty soon gone from gsc- if people want to communicate with me - they can pm me
The public forum is a waste of my time- just invites people to nit pick and poke comments against me
You cannot be a part of the covenant relationship with God under the new covenant if you do not keep all of
God's commandments. People who ignore the 7th day sabbath miss out on the new covenant relationship with God
in Christ
But for the last time Rocky, i will tell you whether it means anything to you or not
if you refuse to keep any of God's commndments not just the love commandments - any of God's commandment
including the 7th day sabbath, you do not have a relationship with God
1 John 2:3
He that saith, I know him (false relationship), and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
The sabbath keeping commandment is especially important in regards to a relationship with God
Whether you understand or not - I am going to let you know the importance of "keeping all the commandments"
including the 2 greatest commandments - the 10 commandments (including te 7th day sabbath keeping commandment)
A covenant law is such that in return from the promise of God,we on our part accept to keep all his commandments
I am thankful that when and if i do fall into sin upon sincere repentance,
Galatians 3:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
God first made a covenant with Abraham- Jesus Christ was the promised seed-
God also showed Abraham the stars in the heaven (spiritual seed -spiritual descendents of faithful Abraham
and like Abraham, we keep all the commandments of God under the new covenant relationship in Christ (christians)
Since we who are in Christ are the spiritual seed of Abraham
A covenant law is irrevocable since it is by promise- the condition in which the promise is
activated is we keep our part of the deal by keeping the commandments of God
We cannot add to it- (by keeping sunday as the sabbath) or subtract from it by ignoring the 7th
day sabbath. Christians miss out on the relationship with God when they willfiully or ignorantly
do not keep any of God's commandments. In this case the 7th day sabbath keeping commandment
week in week out
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Waxit
What makes you doubt that Twinky has a brain previously
Perhaps you should check yours for doubting others just because they hold a different view
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Mark Sanguinetti
Sorry Waxit, but I have complimented her even more than I have complimented you. Now Waxit please read my previous posts here as it relates to the views of the Pharisees on the days of Sabbath, where I quote from actual scriptures instead of ignoring them. I am sorry, but you will not be able to bring diversity between me and other posters here. It is clear that you are trying now. NO, I do not have a different view on this and many other biblical subjects compared to Twinky.
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Rocky
How is that at all about Gabe?
I'm not nitpicking.
Stories can communicate powerfully and effectively when/where just telling people that you know they're doing it wrong doesn't get the message across that you wanted to get across.
At some point, perhaps when/if you get frustrated enough with lack of response to your preaching, you might explore the idea of trying to express what really motivated you to make the decision in your life.
It's a ministry of reconciliation, isn't it?
How can you reconcile people to God if you are so frustrated with them that you can't tolerate their feedback to you?
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Rocky
The Apostle Paul had a story. By the way that story developed, he (and many others) came to realize there was a better way than persecuting Gentiles and Christians.
What's YOUR story?
What happened in your life that opened your eyes to the wonder of how important the sabbath was?
It may have been associated chronologically with you reading certain scriptures, but what was the something that happened to give you the "AH HA" moment when you "got it?"
What was it in your journey/experience that represented the realization, like when the scales fell off of Paul's eyes?
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Rocky
This TED talk about storytelling got posted to YouTube today. Storytelling is a very important part of life.
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T-Bone
Hi Waxit,
I am very puzzled by your follow-up posts after Rocky asked you to tell your story...If you remember, I asked you something similar - along the same lines as Rocky back on May 2nd:
Rocky has shared some good things on the importance of sharing YOUR story…I share a brief story of myself in my profile – in the "about me" tab – it’s just two simple paragraphs – but I’ve also supplemented and expanded on that over the years in various posts about many of those aha moments…
The reason I asked you why the Sabbath was so important and how did it change your life was over something you said on April 13th:
I’m just trying to be helpful here – you might want to ask yourself why people misunderstand you and if there’s something you can do to remedy that.
I do that quite a bit on myself
. One of the biggest things I’ve learned at Grease Spot (and more so here than anywhere else) is that we all have “filters” (like our set of beliefs, experiences, worldview, etc.). These “filters” have to do with processing communication – both in the sending and receiving of information:
Sending information: when we say someone has no filter it really means the person just says what they think without considering the audience or situation.
Receiving information: on the flip side – when it comes to listening “filters” may be in place to remove, block, alter or in some way restrict unwanted material – like things that don’t jibe with our worldview.
I don’t think it’s possible to remove all “filters” in communication. But I do think it’s possible to adjust some filters. On a personal note, I’ve always been a very inquisitive person. I am aware of the many times in my life where I’ve opened up more on some narrow outlook I had on something. For example, over the years of dialoging with a variety of folks on Grease Spot (some Christian, agnostic, atheist, Jewish, and New Age - there's more viewpoints too - that's all I can think of right now) I’ve reevaluated what I think of the Bible – and oddly enough it has also heightened my interest in Jesus Christ. So when it comes to doctrine and practice, what someone is preaching or teaching…whatever – it all goes through these “filters” – what I know of the Bible, what makes sense to me and seems to resonate with the spirit of God within me.
Granted sometimes people may have misunderstood you.
But sometimes you may have misunderstood others.
I am curious about something... Is Grease Spot the only place where you try to get your message out?
Do you share your message on other online forums as well as talking to people in person?
If Grease Spot has been such a waste of time then why have you persisted this long - from March 31st and some 17 pages until now?
I mentioned above about someone having no filter and just says what they think without considering the audience or situation. Have you really thought about your audience at Grease Spot?
Are you aware that Grease Spot is made up of a lot of folks who felt that wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership demanded blind and unquestioned obedience?
Are you aware that Grease Spot is made up of a lot of folks who felt that wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership acted arrogantly superior and disdainful toward others?
Are you aware that Grease Spot is made up of a lot of folks who felt that wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership devalued others as being inferior, incapable or unworthy?
Are you aware that Grease Spot is made up of a lot of folks who felt that wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership did not seem to listen well to what others said and that communication was really a one-way street in the form of their dictates and "spiritual" pronouncements?
Are you aware that Grease Spot is made up of a lot of folks who felt that wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership acted as if they had the answer to man’s spiritual problem?
Am I saying you are like a dangerous cult leader? No – of course not ! So what am I saying?
I’m saying you might consider adjusting your output filter – taking into account your audience at Grease Spot – since the way you often come across seems to be reminiscent of wierwille and/or other TWI-leadership - a prime example is the part of your post I quoted above – it’s actually counterproductive to your “mission” (whatever that is) because you’re turning people off.
I’ve said it before – and I’ll say it again – I believe you do have a lot to offer Grease Spot. That’s not to dismiss what you think your mission is here – just saying there’s more to you than just that. That's the point of telling your story.
We are certainly complex creatures – and I guess we all like to take shortcuts with early impressions of others – maybe make a few mistakes in assumptions or judgements. In that regard we are cognitive misers - “the human mind is considered to be a cognitive miser due to the tendency of people to think and solve problems in simpler and less effortful ways rather than in more sophisticated and more effortful ways, regardless of intelligence.”
I try to accept people as they are - warts and all – and I hope they accept me the same way. Sometimes it takes a lot of work – maybe make some adjustments to the input and output filters.
Of late, I’ve tried to streamline my comments to probe and criticize your method of interpreting a verse - but I was not criticizing you!
You should not take that as a personal attack or that you are in any way inferior - or superior to me. If it gives you any satisfaction I want you to know because of your passion on this thread you’ve got me reading up on the Sabbath in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - - it’s only a six page article but it takes me a longer than normal time because ( besides other responsibilities I have to family and neighbors during this pandemic ) I like to look up every chapter and verse reference – so it takes a while of checking out various translations, Hebrew & Greek words, and prayerfully contemplating the passage. When I’m done with that article I’m going to read the eight page article in - Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible
Now don’t get your hopes up on making another convert - I just want to let you know I don’t like to be force-fed. And I can assure you my filters mentioned above pretty much guarantees I’m not going to be gung ho on Sabbath keeping anytime in the foreseeable future. However, you’ve inspired me to expand my awareness and respect for the spiritual significance the Sabbath has with some people...
And before you go patting yourself on the back – I was serious when I said you’re turning off folks – so the reason I got into reading up on the Sabbath isn’t because of anything in particular you’ve said. As I said earlier, I am very inquisitive by nature - and it was for the strong feelings you expressed over the Sabbath that got my curiosity up…And btw I have intentionally tried to maintain either a neutral tone or a slightly abrasive tone so that you would keep me at arm’s length – that way I had hopes you might feel I wasn’t threatening your independence or interests through some guise of friendliness.
I believe in the transformative process of open and honest discussions…hope you stick around.
Edited by T-Boneformatting and bunch of editing
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Twinky
Waxit certainly got us talking and having a think about why we think what we think. It's been an interesting discussion at times, and I've been glad to review my own understandings and investigate other parts of the Bible. It's all about seeing the big picture, isn't it? God's heart and concern for all his people. And a rest for his people is what is promised, many times, of which the sabbath (or day of rest, particular day unspecified) is just a part.
He hasn't convinced anyone, in part because he hasn't made the effort to touch hearts and genuinely listen to other views than his own. It was more an imposition - Way-style --> "This is what you must do. Because I say (that God says) so." Without seeing, or caring, that others of us see that God says something different.
I wonder if he will try to convince other groups of his belief? Here is a link to the official stance of Jehovah's Witnesses, who do believe in assembling together and having a day of rest, but again, don't say it should be a particular day of the week. Maybe Waxit could try in a JW forum.
Edited by Twinkyhttps://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201109/A-Weekly-Holy-Day-Is-It-Required/
Link didn't include itself. Weird.
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Waxit
You are right- the big 10 commanement that you call statutory instruments doesnt override the greatest commandment/foundational laws -whatever you want to call it defines and establishes the foundational laws. Have a look at the bible verses that I am bringing to your attention again
This is what I have been trying to tell you and your buddies in gsc again and again which is going right over your heads.
You guys are not telling me anything new ( most of chrisianity including twi are saying the same thing about 7th day sabbath)
Always remember that the commandments- include the 4th commandment- which is sabbath keeping on the 7th day
not on any day that you want or your church has decreed
In regards to your legal knowledge that the ancilliary statutory instruments defines and by implication establishes the main law
take a good look at what the bible (God's authority) says through John the beloved apostle:
1 John 5: 3
3 For this is the love of God (greatest commandment), that we keep his commandments (staturory instruments)
and his commandments are not grievous. ( God's precise commandments come to us for our benefit that we sin not)
Does the day matter? Yes! Why because God said it? He has instituted this special day and time to meet with us from
heaven. You dont believe it, I dont care what you believe. I go by God's word and God's word only
Please examine what Paul one of the greatest apostles is saying:
Romans 3:31 - (hopefully this verse wont go over your head- it woulnt suprise me if it did- because you wont be able to answer Rom 3:31)
prove me wrong if you can)
31 Do we then make void the law (ignore the commandments -includes the 7th day sabbath commandment) through faith?
God forbid (very strong language): yea, we establish the law ( we keep the commanments-incudes the 7th day sabbath commanement)- exactly like would you said above
You guys have been telling me nothing new that i dont already know and nothing you guys have told me has gone over my head-
Edited by Waxitremember i was where you are guys still are now until God opened my eyes and I can see clearly
the relevance and significance of keeping the 7th day commandment because I love God with all my heart
I am not going to question His wisdom or authority.
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waysider
You still haven't answered the question.... Why is this particular subject of such great importance to you personally?
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Waxit
This is absolutely incorrect- I have already shown you in detail why the original 7th day is still the saturday of our modern calendar
which you have blissfully ignored (maybe you haven read the thread and that's why you keep harping on that it is impossible to know
which day is the original 7th day of the week
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waysider
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Waxit
You dont have to compliment me but you dont have to be indirectly snarky to me either- you cannot compliment twinky
all you like but that doesnt mean she is necessarily right. It's just that she thinks the same way as you do so dont get smart with
me ok, just because i have a different viewpoint
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Twinky
Waxit, it is Saturday. It is not yet sunset in the country in which you are living. Why have you been posting here for the last two hours, which would be since about 4pm your local time? Isn't that "work" that is forbidden on the sabbath (today being Saturday)?
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Twinky
But you still haven't accounted for whenever you are counting from. The seventh day from when? And how can you possibly know what day the earth was created? Which day? The day that the earth was formless and void? The day the sun shone for the first time? The day the first man walked on earth? You are obviously counting literal days; do you think that? A literal day when (eg) animals were formed and roamed the earth? How can you say the very day that some aspect of the earth's creation was on some specific day, when there were no people around to keep records? Where do ancient fossil records fit into your computation? Most people think that the earth developed in stages, periods, sometimes lasting thousands or millions of year - not literal 24 hr periods.
You know Australian aborigines trace their history back tens of thousands of years (and they have written records (drawings that can be carbon-dated) to prove it). In the UK it's proven that (eg) Stonehenge is tens of thousands of years old (carbon-dating from not just the Stones and debris found at the foot of the Stones, but from other artefacts found nearby) (Stonehenge is very much older than merely the famous stones, which are quite new in comparison with the entire site).
My church (unlike yours) does not decree any day, but we choose to meet together on a particular day. Other churches choose other days, perhaps because of other work or care commitments. Would you condemn all health workers for working on the sabbath (whatever day is chosen for that)? I wouldn't! I'd say they honour God by their service and honour God in their off-duty time as well. After all, God didn't condemn Levites for ministering on the reserved day.
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Waxit
My friend- this is the last time ever, I will ever reply to you again - i mean it- you can go and on- you will not get another reply- no offence
we can still share clean puny jokes but no more sabbath discussion wih you- so you are wasting your time by taking what i share with others
have no idea what i share because you either ignore what i am saying- goes right over your head or you dint bother read it my replies in its entirety
so make this the last time- i will skip anything you share- in fact i am winding down - i certainly wont be reading your replies
Listen up and pay attention: (no offence- but you need to pay attention- or you will be asking me rabbit hole questions)- dont take it personnaly but it's
annoying when people ask me things without understanding what the bible is saying- by all means use whatever software you are having to verify it for yourself
and instead of undermining me and making me look like an idiot
Your quote:
Why do you feel it’s necessary to insert “(includes 7th day sabbayh)” in certain verses?
First of all it's the wrong question- who am I to insert verses in what Gd has said- no one has the right to add or subtract from the bible verses- se revelation
The question should be "why do you say it includes the 7th day sabbath"
Whenever is refers to the commandments of God- it goes without saying that it is all the commandments of God
including the love commandments and the 10 commandments -they are inter linked- I have been saying this over and over again- it's like talking to a wall
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not steal (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not lie- bear false witness (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not commit adultery (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not tell lies (of course that goes without saying)
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means thou shalt not worship other gods(of course that goes without saying)
So in the same way: pay attention now
Would you say when God says keep my commandments- it also means keep the 7th day sabbath keeping - 4th commanement???????????????
Your qute: How would you feel if someone inserted “(includes 7th day sabbayh)” in other verses like:
“because by the works of the Law ( includes 7th day sabbayh) no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law (includes 7th day sabbayh) comes the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:20
Please understand Rom 3:20 in the KJV and any other translation that says : the works of the law . The word "the" has already been erroneously been inserted by
the translators. So, No -I dont have to feel anything.... The translators have already added it to confuse people like you and many others
Rom 3:20 does not refer to the commandments of God- This is a major translation error that has confused a lot of christians
The words "the" has been inserted twice by the translators not me- instead of works of law ( man made traditions) they have made it "the works of the law"
so how can I tell? If you look it up in the original greek - Romans 3: 20 should be "works of law" man made traditions - original greek "nomos"
If it was "the works of the law" (God's commandment) then original greek would be "tou nomos"
So if you understand it correctly translated according to orignal greek-
Romans 3:20 makes complete sense- I dont have to feel anything if clowns monkey around with the bible verses and you dont discern it- then of
couse you are going to ge the wrong end of the stick
So Romans 3: 20
“because by works of Law (includes all man made traditions- includes sunday keeping) no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law (God's commandments
including 7th day sabbath- comes the knowledge of sin .”
|
So now Rom 3:20 makes perfect sense- by man made traditions, shall no flesh be justified - for through God's commanments- you will come to the knowledge
of when you are sinning. So in this case by you keeping man's traditions- sunday keeping- when you compare it with God's commandments- that that says shoult keep the
7th day sabbath, you will see that you are sinning- week in and week out. The wages of sin is death- with no recognition of sin and repentance from sin, there is death
in your relationship with God- That's baaadd news- but you are welcome to continuing ignoring the 7th day sabbath and one day face Matt 7:22- entirely up to you
Sayonara and Asta La Vista- Dont waste your time replying- Ihave had enough of you- I certainly wont waste your time- you have exhausted your time corresponding with me
Over and out
Waxit
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T-Bone
Technically, when you quoted a passage and then placed within it “(includes 7th day sabbayh)” YOU are the one adding to the Bible. Inserting that parenthetical phrase as you did is a pretentious way to try and validate your point of view – and is more or less equivalent to just saying it out loud. I am sorry but your futile attempts to preach on “no one has the right to add or subtract from the bible verses” are rendered ineffectual by the hypocrisy of you doing just that.
It’s not necessary for you to resort to such desperate means to try and get your point across – since you have already succeeded (ages and pages ago
) in making me understand what you are saying – keeping the Sabbath is important to you for whatever pat answers you’ve given – and shy of you telling us more than just some brief personal story of how you’ve come to this position. I’ve got no problem with that – I think it’s wonderful – for you.
I also understand you’ve been trying to get me to see and/or agree that keeping the Sabbath is also important for everyone else for whatever reasons you’ve mentioned. That I have a problem with, since you seem to have a tendency to ignore the immediate context of verses, read your Sabbath bias into verses, and collapse contexts (where two or more unrelated verses are treated as if they belonged together).
Maybe you didn't mean to come across this way - but your posts give me the idea that you must think you are better or more important than me and have a right to tell me what to do – trying to browbeat me into agreeing with you – attempting to lord it over me. Perhaps I wasn’t clear on something – Jesus Christ is my Lord. And besides that – I think it’s rather presumptuous, arrogant, and egotistical on your part to expect me to simply ignore the plain sense of scripture, logic, personal conscientious beliefs and the spirit of God within.
Waxit, - when you said “Whenever is refers to the commandments of God- it goes without saying that it is all the commandments of God including the love commandments and the 10 commandments -they are inter linked- I have been saying this over and over again- it's like talking to a wall” you are also expressing your point of view... You know, I feel like I’m also talking to a wall – since I’ve already offered an explanation at your request -
on May 20th you asked
and I replied to your request on the same day:
And I will leave you with the same sentiment I expressed at the end of my post quoted above: While I don’t see any connection between “the commandments” in John’s epistles and keeping the Sabbath - you are certainly free to think that “the commandments” in the epistles of John are interlinked with keeping the Sabbath.
Edited by T-Boneformatting and typos
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Waxit
Fair enough- it's not always negative from you- sometimes you do ask questions-
I was about to give up on you because it was heading no where and another rabbit hole
Thank you for remaining calm with me and asking questions that concern you that can give
definte pointers why God wants to keep the 7th day sabbath-
If Jesus Christ sacrifice every drop of His blood , die a very shameful and cruel death- unimaginable
torture - is it too much to ask to keep His 7th day commandment Exodus 20:8-11
Where did you ever get the idea that the 7th Sabbath day is for the OT only- that's what satan wants you to
believe- a lie from the pit of hell believe
I have already showed you how the disciples of jesus Christ- Mary Magdalene and the other woman
honoured the 7th day sabbath even at the expense of not anointing Jesus Christ when they came to
the tomb where Joseph Arimathea did a wonderful thing of wrapping the body of Jesus Christ
carefully. They left because sabbath was approaching- they had to be back at sunset
and they came back after sabbath- where was this? In the new Testament- when post crucifixion
Did you now sabbath is mentioned in 10 times in the book of acts- i covered this but this has gone
over your head because you have a strong anti sabbath stance?
I will cover next time in Hebrews where there is no doubt at all- 7th day sabbath is the recommedned
practise and you will see how strongly God wants us to keep the 7th day sabbath. Remind me in case
i forget
But I will answer your question below:
I can only do my best and pray for you that God Himself will enlighten you:
This is the last time- I will explain to you how the present 7th day of the week (saturday) is the original 7th day when
God created the world and created the sabbath for man to enjoy fellowship with Him.
Please keep this and chew over this and take it to God in prayer
Explanation of why the 7th day of the week is our present saturday
The seven day weekly cycle was established by God in Gen 2:1-2 and is not obscured and is not tied to patterns
or alignment of stars, sun or moon. It is a continous serial counting of days one after another from the time God set it
in motion -1st day of the week to 7th day of the week and it is unbroken till our present day.
The fact that the days of the week have pagan names doesnt alter the sequence from 1st day- Sunday to 7th day Saturday
The only calendar that people had from the time God set the weekly pattern was day 1 to day 7until the babylonians
So the babylonians -the earliest civilization adopted this weekly cycle that people were used to this- initially it was day 1 to day 7 weekly cycle -
which was was started by God to this present date.
Later on the Bablonians began to number the months -1st month, 2 month,3 month to 12th and according to one complete solar cycle
(365 days) according to the rotation of the earth around the sun- 12 months. I dont know what names they would have given to specific days
but you can see even in the bible Nisan was the first month and it is the babylonian equivalent of what God called Abib
Ezra the priest during the time of the jews in captivity in Babylon saw no need to change the jewish calendar and
adopted the Babylonian calendar -All through this time- the 7th day sabbath is being kept
From 46 bc upto 1582 ad- The western world adopted the Julian Calendar- This is when we got the eqivalent names of the days and months
Sun day being 1st day (very important in the roman culture- sun worsip) through to Saturday (names after saturn)
Saturday was Named after the Roman god and planet Saturn, Saturday is the only day of the week that retained its Roman origin in English
Julian calendar was an improvement only on account of the fact in that it kept the months in sync with the season.
The weekly cycle was still the same- 1st day to 7th day still the same
In 1582 ad- the old Julian calendar which was 10 days out of sync with the solar system
was replaced by the Gregorian calendar . which is what we have today, The Gregorian calendar
removed the 10 days which was out of sync- so the chop was made on Thursday Oct 4, 1582
so the next day which was supposed to be Friday, Oct 5th 1582 became Friday, Oct 15th, 1582
so the weekly cycle was still the same from the time God started it to the present day- 1st day -Sunday to 7th day Saturday
******************************************************************************************************************************
Edited by WaxitIf the above is not good enough, then I am sorry- I believe God is very wise, he wouldnt leave us wondering whether the seventh
day that He commanded us to obey is still the original seventh day. You and I know God knows everything way before we
come across the problem. What He commands us to do - he will ensure that we can work it out
Did you all the rulers of this world- everyone is in God's control? God is in absolute control of everyhing but the one thing
He will never do is to force us to believe something- we are not robots, he gave us free will choice as he gave Adam & Eve
but they were deceived. Did He give them all the information they needed regarding the tree of life and the tree of good and evil?
What makes you think he will do any less to whave wondering if our saturday is indeed the original 7th day. Of course not
You roll your eyes too much and wonder abot what about this and what about that and everything else
in the 100 billion galaxies that God created. Relax and pray to God, I say this to you sincerely with all my heart- do not let anyone
put peer pressure to confirm what they want you to think- I know that I am the last person you will listen to - because sometimes
I can be a bit "nasty" - God is still working on me to bring patience, His love- I was a complete wreck after the beasts at TWI
but I thank God that He "opened" my eyes - i say this not to brag but just to attest that when someone cries out God- He is tender,loving
and it is the real mccoy- I felt the presence of Jesus Christ- you can pooh pooh -all you like- no doubt many will read this- and be very sarcastic
and no doubt flatter (peer pressure -satan will be actively working thru them so in some way you will continue to hold on and the tragedy is
everyone will face judgement and the prognosis is not good for people who have willfully ignored the sabbath
you so you allow yourself to be decieved- I have absolutely nothing to gain- believe it or not, if you are reading this,
after all the mud slinging we had- I am reaching out to love- I am surprised that not one person has honestly gone to God- to spend time
with me- in saying what if Waxit is right- what if i truly face Matt 7:22
I can only point to things but God the Father is the only that can open your eyes
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Mark Sanguinetti
I have previously provided the below information to help Waxit understand how the Pharisees often promoted the days of Sabbath. The question now is will Waxit actually read these verse along with teaching comments? Please read these verses Waxit.
Here are the other verses where Jesus said he was the "Lord of the Sabbath".
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Twinky
Calm down, Waxit. We've all had our journeys out of TWI. Some of us have been very badly abused. Some still have good memories. Your journey is your journey; do share the bits that you think will help people. You don't know where others have "been" - I do know my own experiences of life during TWI and particularly the enormous injury afterwards (that I have told you about) have enabled me to reach out to others with much greater compassion. If you permit it, God will enable you to bless and help others, when you share your journey (but only to help others and show that recovery is possible when they are "down the bottom of the well." - ie, not share because your story is better, worse, more/less lurid, etc - the story is how God rescued you, not about you, glorify Him not you).
People here have tried to understand where you are coming from, and have asked you questions, both to understand you and perhaps to help you. Your responses are often repetitive, hectoring, lecturing, generally unresponsive and less than respectful. Would it be true to say that you think those who disagree with you do not love God? Despite what they do, believe, how they act - they will be banished for ever?
Please, Waxit, have a bigger view of God. He sent Jesus to die horrifically so that all might live - not be banished. All have sinned, all have done wrong, and all will continue to do wrong, despite best efforts otherwise. God allows us to go wrong, time after time. He knows we (all) are imperfect, we are foolish, we don't understand enough. He's not looking to catch us out - he's looking to draw us (all) in. If people do their best but it's wrong, or at least, not perfect, does a loving God slam the door? If a child does wrong, does a parent banish the child from the house? Or look on, smile, and be glad that he has a child, even though the child does wrong?
We bring JOY to God, Waxit. He smiles on us with pleasure. He doesn't slam the door on us.
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Rocky
Did I miss where Waxit shared his story?
It appears that in all his posts he writes as if he is GOD, rather than as himself telling his story of why he believes the sabbath is important.
That certainly would explain why nobody here seems to have been convinced by anything Waxit preached at us.
Most disappointing.
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