Been around for quite a long time, and is both OT and NT. First (c) 1999. Very readable, good footnotes. Various other notes and tables at the end.
I note there's something else around called "The Passion Translation" - don't know if it's also published by Holman - different sort of logo on the "Passion" name.
Waxit, I see that you can read and write. And you have written much to support your doctrinal view on the Sabbath day. You can see and understand the following if you want to. The Sabbath day was primarily important to the nation of Israel under the Old Testament law as a method of showing faith in God. It still looks to me like only the prophets had the spirit of God to help their understanding of spiritual truth during Old Testament times. Because of this people needed the help of symbols and actions to help their spiritual understanding. However, because of Jesus Christ and the receiving of the gift of holy spirit for common every day followers of Christ, more spiritual understanding has been passed onto more people. This includes the Gentiles which are every person or nation that was not part of the nation of Israel. Hence people now simply do not need special days of service to understand spiritual things in order to fully follow God. Following God is now simply through following Jesus Christ as Lord. The greatest commandment of Christ was love for God and God's people. Here are the only New Testament words for Sabbath or related Greeks words as taught by and used by Paul the apostle for the Gentiles using the original Greek word, which is "sabbatoon" and "sabbatou" when specifically addressed to the Gentiles. Using my biblical study software this is Strong's #4521. The first usage as taught by Paul involves giving of money to help the poor. The last usage for Sabbath shows that this day was and is not important. People today do not need the day of Sabbath to worship God. These days are only a shadow of what is to come through Jesus Christ.
Quote
1 Corinthians 16:1-4
16 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. 2 On the first day of every week (sabbatou) each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come. 3 When I arrive, whomever you may approve, I will send them with letters to carry your gift to Jerusalem; 4 and if it is fitting for me to go also, they will go with me.
NASU
Colossians 2:16-19
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath (sabbatoon) day — 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
NASU
Been around for quite a long time, and is both OT and NT. First (c) 1999. Very readable, good footnotes. Various other notes and tables at the end.
I note there's something else around called "The Passion Translation" - don't know if it's also published by Holman - different sort of logo on the "Passion" name.
No - that is the Holman Christian Standard Bible - The Passion Bible...I have the HCSB study Bible already ( HCSB Study Bible on Amazon )
The Passion Translation is another translation - The Passion Translation on Amazon - all I've found is the New Testament and some will have Psalms, Proverbs, Song of Songs
All I can see is PC Study Bible Version 5. Perhaps I have the in between Version and not the version with the most data. I have plenty of data for biblical study. As I recall the Professional with the most data might simply have more reference data. However, because I purchased the first version years ago and upgraded the version with an additional purchase I get plenty of biblical data that includes Greek text and Greek New Testament words. You can simply check which version is best for you.
Thanks for the info, Mark…I looked into each series from the link you had provided – interesting stuff – lots of resources in each one…I may try something like that down the road…For now, I’ve got plenty of Bible translations and resources on my bookshelves to keep me busy – and I do have the Logos Bible app on my iPhone, as well as a few study Bibles in different translations, a couple of Bible Handbooks and commentaries in Kindle app on my iPhone. Also I’ve been using the Bible Gateway site and the Bible Hub site more frequently this year.
With T-Bone quoting from the epistle of Romans from the NASB (New American Standard Bible). I wonder if Waxit will complain about this biblical version also? He previously complained about the King James Version that was written in the 1500s and specifically about this version for the epistle to the Romans. Yes the Romans were not under the Old Testament law. They had different laws. Hopefully they would at least through Jesus Christ see the importance of love. The translation work for the NASB was first published in 1963 and finished in 1971. A newer version was published in 1995. This looks like regular English so it should not be a problem for reading the content.
Hi Mark
I have no problems with what bible version uses- generally bible version like NASB are ok
There is no version that's 100% accurate- there is bound to be translation errors and that''s why
it's good to cross check with greek interlinear and also to read it in context so we dont go off track
in seeing what is actually been said
But it's important to examine the verses and get the correct interpretation without conflicting
with other verses in the bible i.e no contradictions in other parts of the bible
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath…Colossians 2:16 ESV
Hi T-Bone
How are you doing?
First of all I want to say I am sorry for misunderstanding you when you said, "it looks like I am using deceptive tactics like vpw"
Thanks for being nice to me and explaining to me
Mate, I think sometimes you give me more credit than i deserve (lol) in regards to what you are clever deceptive tricks to fool people
I am just not that kind of a guy. When someone associates me with vpw in any way specifically in explaining doctrine- I see red
and that;s why i reacted the way, i reacted (not very smart of me- because unlike you who was patient and understanding, other
people and i know Twinky is one will think i am a jerk- which i am not. God is still teaching me patience and understanding
In a sense, I get the feeling God is telling me- it's ok- just let them ask quesions and cooly answer them one by one until they run out
and you ask them questions and see if they cn ansewr it>
At one point in time, I didnt like gsc at all - you know we had spats and I thought of just abandoning gsc
but then all of a sudden 2 things happened- I read one of Rocky's posts and he really wanted to know more about the sabbath- it tugged at my heart
and I also received a nice post from you expressing open and thoughtfuol communication which was a real surprise and suddenly I am not dreading to go to gsc.
You maybe an expert on analysing what vpw did and we can talk about this because I have also been through his garbage
I am quite sad for all my friends who are still stuck with the twi
Imust stress to you that i have no ulterior motive or undertow or any kind of manipulative tactics and you dont
have to use your magnifying glass like you have to for vpw - which if we had done right from the start at pfal stage, we would have got out the
gestapo a lot faster. I hate deception and manipulation - thousands of lives have been destroyed at twi because of that
I am just a simple guy doing my best to explain so people can understand where i am coming and take into consideration- I am willing to do the same
but if i see mistakes in translation errors and wrong understanding- I am obviously not going to agree with what I can clearly see to be false
and i will explain where the error is - if people want to ignore that- then it is their business. I will just leave it at that
At the end of the day, I hope even if we have differences we can still be friends
It's great that you want to now why I think sabbath is important. 3 words- God said it-
I love God with all my heart and will trust him and obey him- As i have said earlier (i dont care whether you believe me or not- It doesnt bother me in the slightest
When i was in a really low point and cried out to him, He reached out to me. I felt His very presence and from there, it was a systematic
and gradual leading out from the false to the truth
Ok! Sock it to me mate- you say you have got a lot of bible verses that show "sabbath is insignificant"
What we will do so it can be open, productive conversation ( where each party will take into account what's been said by the other- no long thesis- short paragraphs
I will answer your "law and commandment keeping/sabbath is not important" bible verse and then you answer
my "keeping God's laws and commandments is important" bible verse. We will go by God's word only (the truth) not our opinions/beliefs (which can be wrong)
I hope both of us can be direct and simple and honest- If you agree with something - simply say yes- no shame in that
You said in your last post to me directly- "Go ahead convince me" Mate! I cannot convince a fly to enter a paper bag
i am totally prepared to acknowledge that after all the time i spend- you will still believe what you want to believe.
but on both sides (me and you), God is the only one that can open our eyes. to His word. It's spiriually discerned when someone
honestly seeks the truth and prays to God for understanding. Proverbs 2:1-9 (Rocky nailed this one)
and Psalm 25:1-5
Oh! I hope other people like mark and twinky who are looking at Col 2:16 and maintaining their
"7th day sabbath keeping" stand can follow this post and hopefully by God's grace and goodness
they will begin to see it's importance.
So I will start explaining your anti law/anti sabbath bible verse and then you answer me simply and directly
my pro law and commandment keeping (which includes 7th day sabbath keeping)
Firstly we go one bible verse at a time-
which you think is going to support your anti sabbath stand and i will answer them for you
Secondly when you reply- be simple and directly answer the question . It can be a simple yes or no
Of coure it might become necessary to explain the context- (i.e to whom it was written, why it was written ,, the verses bfore and after within the same cahpter
or other verses in the ebible that explaind the problem or contradiction with the verse in question etc) by all means
If your answer is yes- (same for me)great we can move on - (we are on a discovery trail so let's see what we can learn to get a proper understanding)
If your answer is no -why not? (same for me) Short paragraphs will be great so i can quickly see what your objections are or
you may reply positively (same for me) and say, yep that's a good point
Ok! Let's get on with it - I have actually Col 2:16 explained this before- but i think you disagreed and shot in a different direction- remember we
are only interested in the bible verse that either confirms law/sabbath keeping or shows that law/sabbath keeping is unneccesary (as you say it)
Nothing else- I am not interested in long term trends and analysis- let's stay focussed on the bible verses only- the trends and analysis will sort itself out
Colossians 2:16-17King James Version (KJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. ( Mark made a comment of this so I will include it in here- no charge
The above verse is actually saying the opposite of what you are thinking. You have got it backwards
You are of the understanding that Paul is saying, Guys! dont let people criticise you for what type of meat or drink you are having
and in regards to whether you are or are not observing holy day, new moon and keeping of sabbath> This is not important
It's actually the other way around i.e it is important that you are not put off in practising the teachings of your christian faith.
Please consider carefully who Paul was talking to and what the colossians were faced with
i.e pagan culture and false teachers trying to impose the religious traditions of man If you read it in context and the fact that the churche at colosse came from a pagan background
Paul is telling the gentile christians not to be intimidated for observing the teachings of christianity- clean and unclean meat
sabbath keeping, holy days etc
Colossians was a letter written to the gentile christian converts at the the church in Colosse.
The colossians in general came from a pagan culture which had their own customs and traditions
If you look at Colosse- it was on an international trade route where the colossians were exposed to a putpourri of different cultures
and with it came more traditions and customs. Syncretism or a mixture of religious beliefs was not uncommon.
The colossian converts were one confused lot and Paul is writing to them to set things straight not to detract from their christian faith
In addition false teachers had infiltrated the church at colosse and were attempting to deceive the believers with their own religious philosphy.
How do i know this?
Look at Col 2 in vs 8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy (religious) and vain deceit, after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (7th day Sabbath keeping is NOT a tradition of Man like Sunday keeping is) 4th Commandment -Exodus 20:8-11)
So T- Bone, put yourself in Paul's shoes, if you were addressing christian converts from a formerly pagan background
who were being harassed by the local pagan community for observing the teachings of the christian faith and trying to impose their man made traditions
Would you be saying to them, "Guys it's ok- just tolerate and practise all the false religious beliefs and man made traditions-
it's not important whether you follow the teachings of the christian faith or not
Would you do this? Of course not
So now Col 2:16 becomes very clear when we know colossians were heavily bombarded with false religious beliefs and man made traditions
and Paul is encouraging the christian converts at Colosse to stand strong and not be intimidated by the local community and false teachers
Colossians 2:16-17King James Version (KJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you (on the importance of your observing and practice ) in meat (clean and unclean) , or in drink (no drunkard shall enter the kingdom of God), or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon (sighting only), or of the sabbath days (God's laws and commanemnts)
Ok! Question: Among all the 10 commandments in Exodus 20:8-11 -
Why do you single out the 7th day sabbath keeping commandment among all the 10 commandmentst
as being not important and not necessary? Please be as brief as possible
When you answer the question, please consider this warning from Almighty God
Deut 4:2
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of theLordyour God which I command you.
Please don't think that by your many words and protestations you are convincing anyone. Quite the contrary. You would do much better if you answered questions put to you (of which, genuine answers are there few) and said, succinctly, in few words, what it is you feel you need to say.
The tone of your posts is regrettably rather show-offish and it appears you think you, and you alone, have all the Bible knowledge and understanding, together with comprehensive understanding of some version of Greek, and the rest of us here have no knowledge or understanding, and are not entitled to any view at all. You think we are completely wrong. It may be that you are completely wrong, however. Time and again, people have presented thoughtful study against your own view, and you have dismissed them. That's not honest on your part.
I think you have the wrong impression about me Twinky
First of all i am not interesting in convincing- i am just explaining the scriptures as best as I can. I am not doing it to show off-
but hoping that i have explained it clearly enough so people can understand where I am coming from (food for thought-so it will get people thinking now then during judgement time)
There are a lot of assumptions about me that you are assuming (maybe i am being misunderstood by you- I am sorry if you feel this way Hazel- it's simply not true
Your remarks that i am show offish, i am the only one with the knowledge and everyone should listen to me, i am not genuine ( why do you feel that way)
is absolutely false> Of course- you are entitled to your opinion- where did you get the idea where i dont allow people to have their opinion>
I cannot stop people from having their own opinion- whether i like it or not
Ok! from now on _ I will try to be brief and to the point. I am sorry that it has turned out this way after knowing you as a friend for so long
Can we just forget our differences and be friends?
But I (and many others here) would prefer that you be brief and to the point, and address questions asked of you in simple manner. I'm still waiting... well, no, I don't expect you to answer now.
Hi T-Bone How are you doing?
First of all I want to say I am sorry for misunderstanding you when you said, "it looks like I am using deceptive tactics like vpw"
Thanks for being nice to me and explaining to me
Mate, I think sometimes you give me more credit than i deserve (lol) in regards to what you are clever deceptive tricks to fool people
I am just not that kind of a guy. When someone associates me with vpw in any way specifically in explaining doctrine- I see red
and that;s why i reacted the way, i reacted (not very smart of me- because unlike you who was patient and understanding, other
people and i know Twinky is one will think i am a jerk- which i am not. God is still teaching me patience and understanding
In a sense, I get the feeling God is telling me- it's ok- just let them ask quesions and cooly answer them one by one until they run out
and you ask them questions and see if they cn ansewr it>
At one point in time, I didnt like gsc at all - you know we had spats and I thought of just abandoning gsc
but then all of a sudden 2 things happened- I read one of Rocky's posts and he really wanted to know more about the sabbath- it tugged at my heart
and I also received a nice post from you expressing open and thoughtfuol communication which was a real surprise and suddenly I am not dreading to go to gsc.
...(SNIP)...
Ok! Question: Among all the 10 commandments in Exodus 20:8-11 -
Why do you single out the 7th day sabbath keeping commandment among all the 10 commandmentst
as being not important and not necessary? Please be as brief as possible
When you answer the question, please consider this warning from Almighty God
Deut 4:2
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of theLordyour God which I command you.
Hi Waxit,
I’m doing okay – thanks for asking – and I hope you’re doing well…btw, there’s no need to explain your reaction to my posts – I know I come across as a jerk sometimes – especially when I get wound up/abrasive /aggressive – I guess I see red too when I open up my old TWI-mental-baggage and let it overshadow my clear thinking…so once again I apologize…and going forward I will try to be brief and to the point…
== == ==
And now to answer your question…I’ve never said that the “7th day sabbath keeping commandment” is unimportant or unnecessary per se.
For something to be necessary means it’s a required or mandatory component of something bigger. The context determines what components are necessary. For example, what is necessary or required for our bodies to survive? Our bodies have just five basic needs: air, water, food, shelter and sleep.
I’m pretty sure I’ve never belittled any of the commandments within the context of the Jewish religion, nor am I belittling them now as a Christian.
What I have tried to explain was thatwithin the context of Christianity ( as I understand it, anyway ) the most important or necessary components are what Christ deemed so – and he kept it simple – he simplified the law and the prophets down to just two commands - love God and neighbor…Logically, if one loves God and neighbor they would also believe it is wrong to commit adultery, murder, lie, steal, etc. – however, it seems apparent from many New Testament passages that there is much more latitude given to “keep the Sabbath holy”. For instance, Romans 14:5 ,6 says
“One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.”
From that I take it if one Christian wants to regard every day as holy and live it for the Lord that’s just as cool as another Christian who wants to regard one day above another – such as the Sabbath – and live it for the Lord. Verses like this make me think that perhaps God has given us a greater capacity to understand the scope of freedom in action or thought we now have. Maybe it’s not so much a matter of what was written on tables of stone by the finger of God (Exodus 24:12) – but rather now the priority is to the law that the Spirit of the living God has written in our minds and hearts (II Cor. 3: 2, 3; Heb. 8:10).
I am sorry if my answer is not brief enough for you – but there were a few points that were necessary to unfold from your question.
So you agree that Jesus Christ is not the end of the law?
You said that.
I say: we are TO GET TO KNOW JESUS, THE CHRIST. Waxit, do you consider you know Jesus, the Christ? Or do you just know a book about him? And if you consider that you know Jesus, why are you dissing those who also say they know Jesus - but think differently? You're the only one who has real knowledge? Everyone else knows a false Jesus, maybe?
Do give that some serious thought. Be not quick to judge others... (now where have I read that? (rhetorical question)).
I say: we are TO GET TO KNOW JESUS, THE CHRIST. Waxit, do you consider you know Jesus, the Christ? Or do you just know a book about him? And if you consider that you know Jesus, why are you dissing those who also say they know Jesus - but think differently? You're the only one who has real knowledge? Everyone else knows a false Jesus, maybe?
Do give that some serious thought. Be not quick to judge others... (now where have I read that? (rhetorical question)).
Hi Twinky
You will recall I asked if we could be friends despite our difference.
You didnt respond to that and instead you go on a rampage about how i behave ( Sorry if i gave you a bad impression but you are wrong so hopefully you will
change your very negative attiude about me
I never said I am the only one who has real knowledge, everyone else is false (where did you get that from?????) (Sounds like hot chili to me)
I dont know why you bite each time you converse with me. It's like you hate me and that's not good
Please consider the verses below and see where your heart is. Even if you dont like me, at least take heed to the word of God
God is loving and kind and honours repentance
1 John 4:20
20 If a man (or woman) say, I love God, and hateth his (her)brother, he (she) is a liar: for he (she) that loveth not his(her) brother
whom he(she) hath seen, how can he(she) love God whom he(she) hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
We are to love as brother and sister- not devour each other
Please do not speak for others in regards to your comments about me "knowing the true Jesus"- let them form their own opinions without you encouraging them to hate me
I am beginning to form good relationships with others and I hope you will give me a chance like Rocky and TBone
I agree in the beginning i was very passionate and ran in like a bull in the china shop with unbridled excitement but now i know better
I am prepared to accept the fact that at the end of the day, people can and will believe what they want to believe- that's a fact of life
and I have told this to Rocky and T-Bone.
I will give serious thought about not being too quick to judge others and do my best to bei patient and kind .
Please pray for me
I believe that once you change your attitude about me, we can have a productive conversation and be able to
serious consideration for each other and check the bible out without having a biased opnion
And now to answer your question…I’ve never said that the “7th day sabbath keeping commandment” is unimportant or unnecessary per se.
Didnt you say sometime ago in your conversation with me that Sabbath has become unnecessary- I do recall you said this and we exchanged
gunfire (lol)? Maybe you have thought seriously about the scriptures I have highlighted
12 hours ago, T-Bone said:
For something to be necessary means it’s a required or mandatory component of something bigger. The context determines what components are necessary. For example, what is necessary or required for our bodies to survive? Our bodies have just five basic needs: air, water, food, shelter and sleep.
That's great T-Bone for keeping it brief - let's keep it that way
Also let's go one important question at a time- I have noticed that you tend to fire off several different questions- we dont want to go off topic
and distracted
I understand where you are coming from in terms of something bigger in Jesus Christ and what God has accomplished through Jesus Christ
Hebrews 8:6 - might be something along the lines of what you have in mind ( am i correct?)
and I hope I can get some traction from you as you consider the bible verses below
Thats' great about the body but what's more basic and mandatory than the 10 commandments from GodHimself
Luke 4:3-4
3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
It's interesting that you gave the example of the survival of the body and it's five components.
In Luke 4:4 The devil starts out by tempting Jesus Christ after the Lord had fasted for 40 days and 40 night
Wow- Can you imagine the hunger for food? It was immense, huge and food would have been the most necessary
component for Jesus to survive and He could have easily turned the stones into bread (He fed the hungry multitude
by listening to the temptation by the devil. But he shrugged the devil off by saying: 4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
(physical need) (spiritual need)
Notice the difference in level of intensity between the physical and the spiritual needs of man according to Jesus Christ
(The Lawgiver and the Lord of the Sabbath)
Jesus said, "man shall not live by bread alone' (physical need) and there is something more that's required in order to live
(eternal life- will never die) and that is "by living (practising) every word of God"
This means that all the words of God (God's laws and commandments) including the 7th day Sabbath is important
Also you are contradicting yourself and different from what Jesus Christ is saying
because on one hand you are saying that you did not say : 7th day sabbath keeping commandment” is unimportant or unnecessary
but when you look at Luke 4:5
The Lord is saying "man shall live (practise" every word of God) (Laws and Commandmens of God- including the 7th day Sabbath
Should i believe you or the Lord Jesus Christ?
T-Bone there is nothing wrong with you in focussing on the love of God and I always said that
and you will agree with me the 2 greatest commandments- "Love God with all your heart, mind and soul and your neighbour as yourself"
So if you love God with all your heart- Ths is the acid test according to the bible
Let's look at what does validate our love relationship with God
John 14:21-24
21 He that hath my commandments (includes 7th day Sabbath) , and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (wouldnt you want this father /son relationship and yes it's conditional on keeping
the commandmentss (plural-all of God's laws and
commandments- including 7th day Sabbath)S
So i hope you can see from the above verse that love for God and commandment keeping are inseperable
No matter where you run in the bible with your love commandment- the love for God is not based on what you and i
think but what the bible states. We must trust God and His word only (He is all knowing, all wise and all powerful and He loves us more than we Him)|
Also to love God is to know Him. So again what's the proof according to the word of God
1 John 2: 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments,(includes 7th day Sabbath) is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Do you believe that what the word of God says is more important than what we think? Proverbs 14:12
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. ( Mark made a comment of this so I will include it in here- no charge
The above verse is actually saying the opposite of what you are thinking. You have got it backwards
You are of the understanding that Paul is saying, Guys! dont let people criticise you for what type of meat or drink you are having
and in regards to whether you are or are not observing holy day, new moon and keeping of sabbath> This is not important
It's actually the other way around i.e it is important that you are not put off in practising the teachings of your christian faith.
Please consider carefully who Paul was talking to and what the colossians were faced with
i.e pagan culture and false teachers trying to impose the religious traditions of man If you read it in context and the fact that the churche at colosse came from a pagan background
Paul is telling the gentile christians not to be intimidated for observing the teachings of christianity- clean and unclean meat
sabbath keeping, holy days etc
Colossians was a letter written to the gentile christian converts at the the church in Colosse.
The colossians in general came from a pagan culture which had their own customs and traditions
If you look at Colosse- it was on an international trade route where the colossians were exposed to a putpourri of different cultures
and with it came more traditions and customs. Syncretism or a mixture of religious beliefs was not uncommon.
The colossian converts were one confused lot and Paul is writing to them to set things straight not to detract from their christian faith
In addition false teachers had infiltrated the church at colosse and were attempting to deceive the believers with their own religious philosphy.
How do i know this?
Look at Col 2 in vs 8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy (religious) and vain deceit, after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (7th day Sabbath keeping is NOT a tradition of Man like Sunday keeping is) 4th Commandment -Exodus 20:8-11)
So put yourself in Paul's shoes, if you were addressing christian converts from a formerly pagan background
who were being harassed by the local pagan community for observing the teachings of the christian faith and trying to impose their man made traditions
Would you be saying to them, "Guys it's ok- just tolerate and practise all the false religious beliefs and man made traditions-
it's not important whether you follow the teachings of the christian faith or not
Would you do this? Of course not
So now Col 2:16 becomes very clear when we know colossians were heavily bombarded with false religious beliefs and man made traditions
and Paul is encouraging the christian converts at Colosse to stand strong and not be intimidated by the local community and false teachers
Colossians 2:16-17King James Version (KJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you (on the importance of your observing and practice ) in meat (clean and unclean) , or in drink (no drunkard shall enter the kingdom of God), or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon (sighting only), or of the sabbath days (God's laws and commanemnts)
I dont belong to CGG or any cult- wcg is long gone and replaced by a weaker church -CGG have some excellent articles which has helped me tremendously
and challenged me in having a better relationship with God and has given me deep understanding of
the word of God. I can see that a lot of ex way people lhave gone from one extreme to the opposite extreme
From total bondage and slavery at twi to extreme do as you please, (jus as in the days of Noah (lawlessness) -
you are all accepted in the kingdom of God -dont worry about what the bible says about sin, righteousness, about the love of God
just do what you think is right Proverbs 14:12
Why not join the worldwide ecumenical church which the mainline protestant church is running headlong to
where all religions even atheists are accepted as part of the "fellowship"?
Do you believe that what the word of God says is more important than what we think? Proverbs 14:12
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
I’m sorry but since we are both aware that you and I have opposing views on what the Word of God says about keeping the Sabbath – you’ll have to be much more specific in your question. Can you re-frame the question around a specific chapter or verse in the Bible?
But I (and many others here) would prefer that you be brief and to the point, and address questions asked of you in simple manner. I'm still waiting... well, no, I don't expect you to answer now.
I dont understand- what are questions are you waiting to be answered
It certainly was apparent even though it took quite a while to figure out which one.
I will never belong to any church or any cult- I may support a church in witnessing the word of God after checking them out
but i will never let my life be controlled again by an organization or by any one person.
Only Jesus Christ who i belong to and will hear His voice and follow Him
Didnt you say sometime ago in your conversation with me that Sabbath has become unnecessary-
I do recall you said this and we exchanged gunfire (lol)?
Maybe you have thought seriously about the scriptures I have highlighted
That's great T-Bone for keeping it brief - let's keep it that way
Also let's go one important question at a time- I have noticed that you tend to fire off several different questions- we dont want to go off topic
and distracted
I don’t recall saying that…you might be conflating something you asked with a response I gave.
You used the word “insignificant” in your request
On 4/23/2020 at 4:30 AM, Waxit said:
Mate, Jesus Christ said that "He is the (only)way, the (only)truth, and the l(only) ife" and He is the Lord of the Sabbath
You say we should focus on Jesus Christ- You are absolutely right there
You will obviously agree with me that Jesus Christ is righteous and correct in what He said and practised
So tell me how can someone be Lord of the Sabbath and then consider sabbath keeping insignificant
Forget about TWI - I dont really care what they believe- if there is something good that i learnt
from pfal- it's the keys and principles in rightly dividing the word of God.
In fact there is a lot more than what vpw said- there are 14 rules for enabling one to rightly divide the word of God where there are no errors or contradictions
I also pray to God that He will guide me to all areas of truth
There are no 10,000 ways for everyone to be right. If you belives, yes everybody can be correct with differing opinion and it depends on how you look at it
then go and join the ecumenical movemnent which is very popular, you will be welcomed there
Let's forget about all the character analysis- what i think about you or what you think about e Give me one bible verse that proves 7th day sabbath is insignificant
To which I responded by quoting Romans 14:5
On 4/23/2020 at 8:20 AM, T-Bone said:
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:5 ESV
I don't recall any exchange of gunfire with you over this verse - matter of fact I don't recall you ever responding at all to my post of this verse.
I have had a look at the above link and I can understand why you think it's a cult
Do not assoicate wcg with the other churches of God- if the article is accurate then wcg had some strange doctrines that is not biblical
As i said i dont belong to any one of them
I do look at the sermons preached at cgg (I am not their memberbtw- and they have helped me to come to a deeper understanding
and a greater resolve to focus on Jesus Christ
there was a lot of rubbish with wcg -i was never in their organization-
and the guy that took over joseph tkach jr according to the article, has made wcg into a spiritual sewer to draw in more peole- seeker friendly-
i suppose to keep the coffers full
i think they are now called grace community church
The difference between when i was in twi and now is that when i was in twi- i was a passionate idiot- brain washed with the pflap class
not being able to check them out with being trapped in the tw household - I wished i had come across a site like gsc years ago and it would
have saved me years of heartache and slavery. I now know what bible verses vpw to keep people goons like me motivated
I will never promote church of God - if people want to fellowship- they can check the church out for themselves
The focus is on Jesus Christ- knowing Him, obeying the laws and commandments of God as stated win the bib'e
growing in grace and knowledge to be a spiritually mature christian
Very nice
Someone was rushing to meet his dental appointment
and the car broke down between a marina and an atm machine
I guess you could say- he was caught between a dock and a card place
nice!
In situations like that, one’s choice of transportation is critical. My Punster Underwriter’s Nomenclature states that a Dodge Charger can access cash for repairs at the ATM. A Plymouth Voyager sounds like it’s seaworthy – so it would depend on what propulsion system had broken down – the drivetrain for land or sea.
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Twinky
Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time
WordWolf
"The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearl
WordWolf
Waxit: "The 7th day Sabbath was universally accepted by all and observed by both Jews,Gentiles and the apostles/leadership Acts 13: 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the
Twinky
Is this what you're looking for, T-Bone?
https://www.amazon.com/Holman-CSB-The-Passion-Bible/dp/1586401688/ref=sr_1_21?crid=1SU0DXIIF7CSD&dchild=1&keywords=the+passion+bible&qid=1589841430&sprefix=the+passion+%2Caps%2C231&sr=8-21
Been around for quite a long time, and is both OT and NT. First (c) 1999. Very readable, good footnotes. Various other notes and tables at the end.
I note there's something else around called "The Passion Translation" - don't know if it's also published by Holman - different sort of logo on the "Passion" name.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Waxit, I see that you can read and write. And you have written much to support your doctrinal view on the Sabbath day. You can see and understand the following if you want to. The Sabbath day was primarily important to the nation of Israel under the Old Testament law as a method of showing faith in God. It still looks to me like only the prophets had the spirit of God to help their understanding of spiritual truth during Old Testament times. Because of this people needed the help of symbols and actions to help their spiritual understanding. However, because of Jesus Christ and the receiving of the gift of holy spirit for common every day followers of Christ, more spiritual understanding has been passed onto more people. This includes the Gentiles which are every person or nation that was not part of the nation of Israel. Hence people now simply do not need special days of service to understand spiritual things in order to fully follow God. Following God is now simply through following Jesus Christ as Lord. The greatest commandment of Christ was love for God and God's people. Here are the only New Testament words for Sabbath or related Greeks words as taught by and used by Paul the apostle for the Gentiles using the original Greek word, which is "sabbatoon" and "sabbatou" when specifically addressed to the Gentiles. Using my biblical study software this is Strong's #4521. The first usage as taught by Paul involves giving of money to help the poor. The last usage for Sabbath shows that this day was and is not important. People today do not need the day of Sabbath to worship God. These days are only a shadow of what is to come through Jesus Christ.
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T-Bone
No - that is the Holman Christian Standard Bible - The Passion Bible...I have the HCSB study Bible already ( HCSB Study Bible on Amazon )
The Passion Translation is another translation - The Passion Translation on Amazon - all I've found is the New Testament and some will have Psalms, Proverbs, Song of Songs
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T-Bone
Thanks for the info, Mark…I looked into each series from the link you had provided – interesting stuff – lots of resources in each one…I may try something like that down the road…For now, I’ve got plenty of Bible translations and resources on my bookshelves to keep me busy – and I do have the Logos Bible app on my iPhone, as well as a few study Bibles in different translations, a couple of Bible Handbooks and commentaries in Kindle app on my iPhone. Also I’ve been using the Bible Gateway site and the Bible Hub site more frequently this year.
Edited by T-Bonecorrected link
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Waxit
Hi Mark
I have no problems with what bible version uses- generally bible version like NASB are ok
There is no version that's 100% accurate- there is bound to be translation errors and that''s why
it's good to cross check with greek interlinear and also to read it in context so we dont go off track
in seeing what is actually been said
But it's important to examine the verses and get the correct interpretation without conflicting
Edited by Waxitwith other verses in the bible i.e no contradictions in other parts of the bible
Regards
Waxit
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Waxit
Hi T-Bone
How are you doing?
First of all I want to say I am sorry for misunderstanding you when you said, "it looks like I am using deceptive tactics like vpw"
Thanks for being nice to me and explaining to me
Mate, I think sometimes you give me more credit than i deserve (lol) in regards to what you are clever deceptive tricks to fool people
I am just not that kind of a guy. When someone associates me with vpw in any way specifically in explaining doctrine- I see red
and that;s why i reacted the way, i reacted (not very smart of me- because unlike you who was patient and understanding, other
people and i know Twinky is one will think i am a jerk- which i am not. God is still teaching me patience and understanding
In a sense, I get the feeling God is telling me- it's ok- just let them ask quesions and cooly answer them one by one until they run out
and you ask them questions and see if they cn ansewr it>
At one point in time, I didnt like gsc at all - you know we had spats and I thought of just abandoning gsc
but then all of a sudden 2 things happened- I read one of Rocky's posts and he really wanted to know more about the sabbath- it tugged at my heart
and I also received a nice post from you expressing open and thoughtfuol communication which was a real surprise and suddenly I am not dreading to go to gsc.
You maybe an expert on analysing what vpw did and we can talk about this because I have also been through his garbage
I am quite sad for all my friends who are still stuck with the twi
Imust stress to you that i have no ulterior motive or undertow or any kind of manipulative tactics and you dont
have to use your magnifying glass like you have to for vpw - which if we had done right from the start at pfal stage, we would have got out the
gestapo a lot faster. I hate deception and manipulation - thousands of lives have been destroyed at twi because of that
I am just a simple guy doing my best to explain so people can understand where i am coming and take into consideration- I am willing to do the same
but if i see mistakes in translation errors and wrong understanding- I am obviously not going to agree with what I can clearly see to be false
and i will explain where the error is - if people want to ignore that- then it is their business. I will just leave it at that
At the end of the day, I hope even if we have differences we can still be friends
It's great that you want to now why I think sabbath is important. 3 words- God said it-
I love God with all my heart and will trust him and obey him- As i have said earlier (i dont care whether you believe me or not- It doesnt bother me in the slightest
When i was in a really low point and cried out to him, He reached out to me. I felt His very presence and from there, it was a systematic
and gradual leading out from the false to the truth
Ok! Sock it to me mate- you say you have got a lot of bible verses that show "sabbath is insignificant"
What we will do so it can be open, productive conversation ( where each party will take into account what's been said by the other- no long thesis- short paragraphs
I will answer your "law and commandment keeping/sabbath is not important" bible verse and then you answer
my "keeping God's laws and commandments is important" bible verse. We will go by God's word only (the truth) not our opinions/beliefs (which can be wrong)
I hope both of us can be direct and simple and honest- If you agree with something - simply say yes- no shame in that
You said in your last post to me directly- "Go ahead convince me" Mate! I cannot convince a fly to enter a paper bag
i am totally prepared to acknowledge that after all the time i spend- you will still believe what you want to believe.
but on both sides (me and you), God is the only one that can open our eyes. to His word. It's spiriually discerned when someone
honestly seeks the truth and prays to God for understanding. Proverbs 2:1-9 (Rocky nailed this one)
and Psalm 25:1-5
Oh! I hope other people like mark and twinky who are looking at Col 2:16 and maintaining their
"7th day sabbath keeping" stand can follow this post and hopefully by God's grace and goodness
they will begin to see it's importance.
So I will start explaining your anti law/anti sabbath bible verse and then you answer me simply and directly
my pro law and commandment keeping (which includes 7th day sabbath keeping)
Firstly we go one bible verse at a time-
which you think is going to support your anti sabbath stand and i will answer them for you
Secondly when you reply- be simple and directly answer the question . It can be a simple yes or no
Of coure it might become necessary to explain the context- (i.e to whom it was written, why it was written ,, the verses bfore and after within the same cahpter
or other verses in the ebible that explaind the problem or contradiction with the verse in question etc) by all means
If your answer is yes- (same for me)great we can move on - (we are on a discovery trail so let's see what we can learn to get a proper understanding)
If your answer is no -why not? (same for me) Short paragraphs will be great so i can quickly see what your objections are or
you may reply positively (same for me) and say, yep that's a good point
Ok! Let's get on with it - I have actually Col 2:16 explained this before- but i think you disagreed and shot in a different direction- remember we
are only interested in the bible verse that either confirms law/sabbath keeping or shows that law/sabbath keeping is unneccesary (as you say it)
Nothing else- I am not interested in long term trends and analysis- let's stay focussed on the bible verses only- the trends and analysis will sort itself out
Colossians 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. ( Mark made a comment of this so I will include it in here- no charge
The above verse is actually saying the opposite of what you are thinking. You have got it backwards
You are of the understanding that Paul is saying, Guys! dont let people criticise you for what type of meat or drink you are having
and in regards to whether you are or are not observing holy day, new moon and keeping of sabbath> This is not important
It's actually the other way around i.e it is important that you are not put off in practising the teachings of your christian faith.
Please consider carefully who Paul was talking to and what the colossians were faced with
i.e pagan culture and false teachers trying to impose the religious traditions of man
If you read it in context and the fact that the churche at colosse came from a pagan background
Paul is telling the gentile christians not to be intimidated for observing the teachings of christianity- clean and unclean meat
sabbath keeping, holy days etc
Colossians was a letter written to the gentile christian converts at the the church in Colosse.
The colossians in general came from a pagan culture which had their own customs and traditions
If you look at Colosse- it was on an international trade route where the colossians were exposed to a putpourri of different cultures
and with it came more traditions and customs. Syncretism or a mixture of religious beliefs was not uncommon.
The colossian converts were one confused lot and Paul is writing to them to set things straight not to detract from their christian faith
In addition false teachers had infiltrated the church at colosse and were attempting to deceive the believers with their own religious philosphy.
How do i know this?
Look at Col 2 in vs 8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy (religious) and vain deceit, after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (7th day Sabbath keeping is NOT a tradition of Man like Sunday keeping is) 4th Commandment -Exodus 20:8-11)
So T- Bone, put yourself in Paul's shoes, if you were addressing christian converts from a formerly pagan background
who were being harassed by the local pagan community for observing the teachings of the christian faith and trying to impose their man made traditions
Would you be saying to them, "Guys it's ok- just tolerate and practise all the false religious beliefs and man made traditions-
it's not important whether you follow the teachings of the christian faith or not
Would you do this? Of course not
So now Col 2:16 becomes very clear when we know colossians were heavily bombarded with false religious beliefs and man made traditions
and Paul is encouraging the christian converts at Colosse to stand strong and not be intimidated by the local community and false teachers
Colossians 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you (on the importance of your observing and practice ) in meat (clean and unclean) , or in drink (no drunkard shall enter the kingdom of God), or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon (sighting only), or of the sabbath days (God's laws and commanemnts)
Ok! Question: Among all the 10 commandments in Exodus 20:8-11 -
Why do you single out the 7th day sabbath keeping commandment among all the 10 commandmentst
as being not important and not necessary? Please be as brief as possible
When you answer the question, please consider this warning from Almighty God
Deut 4:2
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
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Waxit
I think you have the wrong impression about me Twinky
First of all i am not interesting in convincing- i am just explaining the scriptures as best as I can. I am not doing it to show off-
but hoping that i have explained it clearly enough so people can understand where I am coming from (food for thought-so it will get people thinking now then during judgement time)
There are a lot of assumptions about me that you are assuming (maybe i am being misunderstood by you- I am sorry if you feel this way Hazel- it's simply not true
Your remarks that i am show offish, i am the only one with the knowledge and everyone should listen to me, i am not genuine ( why do you feel that way)
is absolutely false> Of course- you are entitled to your opinion- where did you get the idea where i dont allow people to have their opinion>
I cannot stop people from having their own opinion- whether i like it or not
Ok! from now on _ I will try to be brief and to the point. I am sorry that it has turned out this way after knowing you as a friend for so long
Can we just forget our differences and be friends?
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Twinky
I haven't fallen out with you, Waxit.
But I (and many others here) would prefer that you be brief and to the point, and address questions asked of you in simple manner. I'm still waiting... well, no, I don't expect you to answer now.
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Waxit
So you agree that Jesus Christ is not the end of the law?
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T-Bone
Hi Waxit,
I’m doing okay – thanks for asking – and I hope you’re doing well…btw, there’s no need to explain your reaction to my posts – I know I come across as a jerk sometimes – especially when I get wound up/abrasive /aggressive – I guess I see red too when I open up my old TWI-mental-baggage and let it overshadow my clear thinking…so once again I apologize…and going forward I will try to be brief and to the point…
== == ==
And now to answer your question…I’ve never said that the “7th day sabbath keeping commandment” is unimportant or unnecessary per se.
For something to be necessary means it’s a required or mandatory component of something bigger. The context determines what components are necessary. For example, what is necessary or required for our bodies to survive? Our bodies have just five basic needs: air, water, food, shelter and sleep.
I’m pretty sure I’ve never belittled any of the commandments within the context of the Jewish religion, nor am I belittling them now as a Christian.
What I have tried to explain was that within the context of Christianity ( as I understand it, anyway
) the most important or necessary components are what Christ deemed so – and he kept it simple – he simplified the law and the prophets down to just two commands - love God and neighbor…Logically, if one loves God and neighbor they would also believe it is wrong to commit adultery, murder, lie, steal, etc. – however, it seems apparent from many New Testament passages that there is much more latitude given to “keep the Sabbath holy”. For instance, Romans 14:5 ,6 says
“One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.”
From that I take it if one Christian wants to regard every day as holy and live it for the Lord that’s just as cool as another Christian who wants to regard one day above another – such as the Sabbath – and live it for the Lord. Verses like this make me think that perhaps God has given us a greater capacity to understand the scope of freedom in action or thought we now have. Maybe it’s not so much a matter of what was written on tables of stone by the finger of God (Exodus 24:12) – but rather now the priority is to the law that the Spirit of the living God has written in our minds and hearts (II Cor. 3: 2, 3; Heb. 8:10).
I am sorry if my answer is not brief enough for you – but there were a few points that were necessary to unfold from your question.
Edited by T-Boneformatting and bunch of editing
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Twinky
Waxit said:
You said that.
I say: we are TO GET TO KNOW JESUS, THE CHRIST. Waxit, do you consider you know Jesus, the Christ? Or do you just know a book about him? And if you consider that you know Jesus, why are you dissing those who also say they know Jesus - but think differently? You're the only one who has real knowledge? Everyone else knows a false Jesus, maybe?
Do give that some serious thought. Be not quick to judge others... (now where have I read that? (rhetorical question)).
Edited by TwinkyInclude quote
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Waxit
Hi Twinky
You will recall I asked if we could be friends despite our difference.
You didnt respond to that and instead you go on a rampage about how i behave ( Sorry if i gave you a bad impression but you are wrong so hopefully you will
change your very negative attiude about me
I never said I am the only one who has real knowledge, everyone else is false (where did you get that from?????) (Sounds like hot chili to me)
I dont know why you bite each time you converse with me. It's like you hate me and that's not good
Please consider the verses below and see where your heart is. Even if you dont like me, at least take heed to the word of God
God is loving and kind and honours repentance
1 John 4:20
20 If a man (or woman) say, I love God, and hateth his (her)brother, he (she) is a liar: for he (she) that loveth not his(her) brother
whom he(she) hath seen, how can he(she) love God whom he(she) hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
We are to love as brother and sister- not devour each other
Please do not speak for others in regards to your comments about me "knowing the true Jesus"- let them form their own opinions without you encouraging them to hate me
I am beginning to form good relationships with others and I hope you will give me a chance like Rocky and TBone
I agree in the beginning i was very passionate and ran in like a bull in the china shop with unbridled excitement but now i know better
I am prepared to accept the fact that at the end of the day, people can and will believe what they want to believe- that's a fact of life
and I have told this to Rocky and T-Bone.
I will give serious thought about not being too quick to judge others and do my best to bei patient and kind .
Please pray for me
I believe that once you change your attitude about me, we can have a productive conversation and be able to
serious consideration for each other and check the bible out without having a biased opnion
Love in Christ
Waxit
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Waxit
Didnt you say sometime ago in your conversation with me that Sabbath has become unnecessary- I do recall you said this and we exchanged
gunfire (lol)? Maybe you have thought seriously about the scriptures I have highlighted
That's great T-Bone for keeping it brief - let's keep it that way
Also let's go one important question at a time- I have noticed that you tend to fire off several different questions- we dont want to go off topic
and distracted
I understand where you are coming from in terms of something bigger in Jesus Christ and what God has accomplished through Jesus Christ
Hebrews 8:6 - might be something along the lines of what you have in mind ( am i correct?)
and I hope I can get some traction from you as you consider the bible verses below
Thats' great about the body but what's more basic and mandatory than the 10 commandments from God Himself
Luke 4:3-4
3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
It's interesting that you gave the example of the survival of the body and it's five components.
In Luke 4:4 The devil starts out by tempting Jesus Christ after the Lord had fasted for 40 days and 40 night
Wow- Can you imagine the hunger for food? It was immense, huge and food would have been the most necessary
component for Jesus to survive and He could have easily turned the stones into bread (He fed the hungry multitude
by listening to the temptation by the devil. But he shrugged the devil off by saying:
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
(physical need) (spiritual need)
Notice the difference in level of intensity between the physical and the spiritual needs of man according to Jesus Christ
(The Lawgiver and the Lord of the Sabbath)
Jesus said, "man shall not live by bread alone' (physical need) and there is something more that's required in order to live
(eternal life- will never die) and that is "by living (practising) every word of God"
This means that all the words of God (God's laws and commandments) including the 7th day Sabbath is important
Also you are contradicting yourself and different from what Jesus Christ is saying
because on one hand you are saying that you did not say : 7th day sabbath keeping commandment” is unimportant or unnecessary
but when you look at Luke 4:5
The Lord is saying "man shall live (practise" every word of God) (Laws and Commandmens of God- including the 7th day Sabbath
Should i believe you or the Lord Jesus Christ?
T-Bone there is nothing wrong with you in focussing on the love of God and I always said that
and you will agree with me the 2 greatest commandments- "Love God with all your heart, mind and soul and your neighbour as yourself"
So if you love God with all your heart- Ths is the acid test according to the bible
Let's look at what does validate our love relationship with God
John 14:21-24
21 He that hath my commandments (includes 7th day Sabbath) , and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (wouldnt you want this father /son relationship and yes it's conditional on keeping
the commandmentss (plural-all of God's laws and
commandments- including 7th day Sabbath)S
So i hope you can see from the above verse that love for God and commandment keeping are inseperable
No matter where you run in the bible with your love commandment- the love for God is not based on what you and i
think but what the bible states. We must trust God and His word only (He is all knowing, all wise and all powerful and He loves us more than we Him)|
Also to love God is to know Him. So again what's the proof according to the word of God
1 John 2:
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments,(includes 7th day Sabbath) is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Do you believe that what the word of God says is more important than what we think?
Proverbs 14:12
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
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I dont belong to CGG or any cult- wcg is long gone and replaced by a weaker church -CGG have some excellent articles which has helped me tremendously
and challenged me in having a better relationship with God and has given me deep understanding of
the word of God. I can see that a lot of ex way people lhave gone from one extreme to the opposite extreme
From total bondage and slavery at twi to extreme do as you please, (jus as in the days of Noah (lawlessness) -
you are all accepted in the kingdom of God -dont worry about what the bible says about sin, righteousness, about the love of God
just do what you think is right Proverbs 14:12
Why not join the worldwide ecumenical church which the mainline protestant church is running headlong to
where all religions even atheists are accepted as part of the "fellowship"?
Edited by WaxitLink to comment
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T-Bone
I’m sorry but since we are both aware that you and I have opposing views on what the Word of God says about keeping the Sabbath – you’ll have to be much more specific in your question. Can you re-frame the question around a specific chapter or verse in the Bible?
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Waxit
What did the sign say on the dentiist front door office?
"I speak the tooth, the whole tooth and nothing but the tooth"
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T-Bone
When is it time to go to the dentist?
Tooth hurty.
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Waxit
I dont understand- what are questions are you waiting to be answered
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Waxit
I will never belong to any church or any cult- I may support a church in witnessing the word of God after checking them out
but i will never let my life be controlled again by an organization or by any one person.
Only Jesus Christ who i belong to and will hear His voice and follow Him
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Waxit
Very nice
Someone was rushing to meet his dental appointment
and the car broke down between a marina and an atm machine
I guess you could say- he was caught between a dock and a card place
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T-Bone
I don’t recall saying that…you might be conflating something you asked with a response I gave.
You used the word “insignificant” in your request
To which I responded by quoting Romans 14:5
I don't recall any exchange of gunfire with you over this verse - matter of fact I don't recall you ever responding at all to my post of this verse.
Edited by T-Boneformatting and typos
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Waxit
I have had a look at the above link and I can understand why you think it's a cult
Do not assoicate wcg with the other churches of God- if the article is accurate then wcg had some strange doctrines that is not biblical
As i said i dont belong to any one of them
I do look at the sermons preached at cgg (I am not their memberbtw- and they have helped me to come to a deeper understanding
and a greater resolve to focus on Jesus Christ
there was a lot of rubbish with wcg -i was never in their organization-
and the guy that took over joseph tkach jr according to the article, has made wcg into a spiritual sewer to draw in more peole- seeker friendly-
i suppose to keep the coffers full
i think they are now called grace community church
The difference between when i was in twi and now is that when i was in twi- i was a passionate idiot- brain washed with the pflap class
not being able to check them out with being trapped in the tw household - I wished i had come across a site like gsc years ago and it would
have saved me years of heartache and slavery. I now know what bible verses vpw to keep people goons like me motivated
I will never promote church of God - if people want to fellowship- they can check the church out for themselves
The focus is on Jesus Christ- knowing Him, obeying the laws and commandments of God as stated win the bib'e
growing in grace and knowledge to be a spiritually mature christian
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T-Bone
nice!
In situations like that, one’s choice of transportation is critical. My Punster Underwriter’s Nomenclature states that a Dodge Charger can access cash for repairs at the ATM. A Plymouth Voyager sounds like it’s seaworthy – so it would depend on what propulsion system had broken down – the drivetrain for land or sea.
Bonus feature: James Bond’s underwater car
Edited by T-Bonetypos & formatting
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