Believe me, Gabe, God has given me "an understanding of the sabbath and why it is important" - my "day of rest" is vital.
Please dont call me Gabe-It's a nickname I might have used accidentally. Call me Waxit
Ok! You say you keep sabbath on Sunday (1st day of the week). That's fantastic
So what's the problem with keeping sabbath on the 7th day (Saturday) in line with the word of God
Does the fact that God of the bible has specifically commanded the 7th day (Saturday) sabbath
too much for you to handle?
Is that what you are saying?
DDoesn’t God have the right to specify the day of the week he wants sabbath day observance
He created the heavens and the earth, He created you and me-(Read Jeremiah 18:6)
If he was not specific about the 7th day, He would not have specified the 7th day as the sabbath day
and would not have specified into His Laws & Commandment(7th day sabbath is part of the 10 commandments)
You and I know that God is supreme and the most intelligent being in the whole universe and knows
what He is doing. Abraham believed and trusted God when He told him to get of his established comfort zone
in Ur of the chaldees and was greatly blessed for doing so, How about you?
Please understand I am not being sarcastic. I am trying to understand the real reason for your resistance
to 7th day sabbath in light of the fact that you say you already keep sabbath presumably on Sunday (if I am not mistaken)
I think it is unfair for you to call my church/organization a cult (that is your opinion- how would you like it if I came out on public forum on gsc and
said- the church that you belong to is pagan and false.
A cult is where you are controlled by what the organization dictates- (contrary to the word of God)
I dont belong to any particular church nor am I controlled by church idealogies- I go by the written word of God and communing wwith God)
Cult not where I am - far fom it- I have learnt the lessons of twi
as I am sure you have learnt as well
That could be more aspirational than anything else. I mean what the heck, there's so much ambiguity and paradox, not to mention the variety of versions/translations.
Ye shall not add unto the word … BUT THEN YOU DO ADD by including the words "7TH DAY SABBATH"!!!!!!
This is ridiculous Twinks- I mean come on- are you kidding me? The verse below in Exodus 20:8-11 is the word of God not my words.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of theLordthy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou,
nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
How do you say I add the words when God is plainly telling you plainly, it is the 7th day of the week
By keeping sabbath on the 1st day of the week (sunday), by your action you are adding to the word of God
and subtracting at the same time by ignoring the 7th day sabbath
I have previously posted to you about your reason for resisting the 7th day sabbath commandment
Once you have told me your real reason (fear ,concern whatever)
for resisting the 7th daysabbath day ( and I am 99.9999% sure you will not keep the 7th day sabbath as commanded by God)
Then we can agree to differ so i wont discuss the 7th day sabbath with you anymore- you can go on your merry way and I will go mine
I have previously posted to you about your reason for resisting the 7th day sabbath commandment
Once you have told me your real reason (fear ,concern whatever) for resisting the 7th day sabbath day ...
What is your real reason for not accepting the grace of God, and having to do one better than Jesus?
10And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
11In Him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christb and not by human hands. 12And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.
13When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, 14having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross!
Waxit, we were made complete in Christ, who observed all the tenets of the law. We were circumcised with him (so, for males, that's the end of mutilation of private parts). We were buried with him; we were baptised in him, we were raised with him. Jesus took away our sin and our sins.
I wonder, do you think Jesus is alive and well, observing the sabbath in heaven or wherever he is?
We who believe kept the law with him, we kept the sabbath with him, and we are freed from the law with him. For the dead are not subject to any laws.
I believe that Jesus is alive and well in his spiritual body, in my church (and in many others) and in that form he observes a sabbath rest (of sorts) on Sundays and other days too. I say "of sorts" because the good work of my church doesn't stop on Sundays, but we're out there looking out for hurt and needy people, and fellowshipping with each other. We do that on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays AND SATURDAYS. I believe Jesus is with each one of us as we do that, too.
Waxit, we were made complete in Christ, who observed all the tenets of the law. We were circumcised with him (so, for males, that's the end of mutilation of private parts). We were buried with him; we were baptised in him, we were raised with him. Jesus took away our sin and our sins.
Please understand that whaever I am saying- I am declaring the truth in love and this will almost end my sabbath discussion with you- it's pointless going on for both of us
and we must agree to differ. I am just answering your replies and i will be leaving it at this
Does your quote above that since Jesus Christ took away our sins, we can now continuing sinning? lie, steal etc- obviously not- so in the same way we also keep the 7th day sabbath
Nowehere in the bible does it state that Jesus bore all your sins- you can now sin as much
you like- You cannot be perfect like Jesus so go ahead lie and steal- is that the story
Jesus has kept himself
pure in this regard- so that gives you the license to go ahead and lie and steal
I keep saying this over and over but it doesnt seem to go through to you- Paul is clearly saying we keep the laws and commandments
(your major misunderstnding is that the law has been done away with and that's why you keep bringing up Col 2: 10
I told you that if you can prove from the bible that the "commandments of God' does not include the 7th day sabbath then I will join you.
But you cannot prove that - and I can - The 10 commandments - like lying, stealing, worshipping other gods are cardinal sins and everyone knows that
and the 7th day sabbath commandment- God placed it right about the middle of the 10 commandments (James 2:10)
And you dont even acknowledge or oblivious to the fact - that if you dont keep all the commandments of God
then you are not in fellowship with God of the bible who is loving .comapassionate, gracious but the age of grace
ends when you face the Lord in judgement. This is when most christians will face 7:22
Doesnt it shock you to know that you might not be in fellowship with God? How can you possible ignore this?
1 John 2:4
4 He (she) that saith, I know him (My God is a compassionate God), and keepeth not his commandments( includes the 7th day sabbath commandment), is a liar, and the truth is not in him/her
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (why is Paul saying this - have you ever wondered?)
.You may say we try to lead a sinless life and do our best by not lying and stealing- That's right! but there is one commandment among the 10 commandments
that you dont even try and keep- in fact you have never kept it and you willfully keep another day as the sabbath
not the 7th day sabbath (saturday). This is a specific commandment of God which cannot be annulled -
In a covenant law- you can add or subtract to the terms and conditions, otherwise you break it (1 John 3:4) and the 7th day commandment is a commandment you are
breaking every week and will continue to sin until you fo to the graveyard- This is the danger- unrepentance and disobedience through ignorance
Hebrews 9:27 - It is appointed for man (woman) to die once and then judgement - Matt 7:22
6 hours ago, Twinky said:
the good work of my church doesn't stop on Sundays, but we're out there looking out for hurt and needy people, and fellowshipping with each other. We do that on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays AND SATURDAYS.
It's great you are doing good work- but the biblical 7th day sabbath is an inhouse rest day- where you can invite people to your home for sabbath
fellowship, studying the word, teaching, praying for healing- if you have to bandage their wounds or wash their feet (healing) , you can even do that but
it is a specific rest from your normal work day week activiies. It is impossible to keep the the 7th day sabbath that God commanded on every day of the
week- Most people are not not millionaires- and financially free to do sunset to sunset sabbath on Monday to Friday and then Sunday- It's impossible Try doing what you are currently doing sunset to sunset on your sunday sabbath from mon to fri- so the type of 7th day sabbath that God commands is feasible and reasonable for most people on one day of the week- unless you are a millionaire and God doesnt require 6 days of sabbath keeping as he wants it from sunset to sunset-
and God has stated in His laws and commandments that it must be on the 7th day of the week (saturday).
You are right there is no more physical circumcision for the males as a sign as in Abraham's days but now it's the circumcision of the heart (spiritual)
where we put away for sins from a heart perspective. You seem to think that since Jesus Christ observed all the tenets of the law- we are not required to keep it
This is an erroneous teaching of the protestant churches who fail to understand that the law has never been done away with- It's not getting through to your head
The law or the commandments in the new covenant with Christ instituted at the last supper are spiritual where are the laws are kept with a deeper intensity of
heart and mind. If you read Hebrews, you will see that Jesus Christ is our one time sin offering and therfore the animal sacrifices have been done away with
So the christian sabbath (post cucifixion) is not observed with the physical focus of the old covenant (animal sacrifices- this was done to show how disgusting sin is- so
animal sacrifices has been done way with) but the 7th day sabbath (being a law of God- part of the 10 commandmens) has neven been done away with (Hebrews
Read this verse below very carefully: Jesus has not destroyed the law by fullfilling the law- In fact He is saying to keep all the comandments of God (icludes 7th day sabbath)
Isnt this what Paul is also saying in Romans 3:31
Matt 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, (the law has been done away with) or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
This is really, really important so pay close attention and you may understand what I am trying to get through to you:
Buried with Him, Baptised with Him and Raised with Him ( This is only for repentant sinners who are locked in with the covenant law that Jesus christ made with His church)
Do you think that "buried with Him, baptised with Him and Raised with Him" is going to be effective for people who willfully start lying
and stealing and worshipping Gods? No of course not- Breaking the 7th day commandment is just as bad as lying
and stealing according to God and you cannot add or subtract in a covenant law- it has to be exact or specific as in the commanded 7th day sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:8-11
James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point(ignoring the 7th day sabbath) , he is guilty of all.
They would be breaking the new covenant law. (1 John 3:4)
But you are breaking the new covenant law every single week Twinky, because you violate the 7th day sabbath kweeping commandment of God
and you are not repentant. How is God going to forgive you if you are unrepentant?
Hebrews 10:
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. (Matt 7:22)
What is your real reason for not accepting the grace of God, and having to do one better than Jesus?
Twinky, this will be my last reply to you. i am replying to your comments and questions below
You are very very very mistaken when you say- "having to do one better than Jesus"- This is an absolute copout of protestants who want to escape the
spiritually "inconvenient truth"- i.e 7th day sabbath commandment
Keeping the 7th day sabbath is not doing better than Jesus but in keeping the commandments of God -in holiness and righteousness in Jesus Christ
For those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit- they are empowered to be like Jesus Christ- Why do you think God wants us in: 1 Peter 1:16King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. ( Will you pooh, pooh, this from God)
If you think that God doesnt want us to put on Jesus Christ and what do you think is he reason for the presence of
indwelling Holy Spirit in obdedient and repented christians is for- To teach us and to empower us so we can be like Jesus Christ (Lord of the Sabbath")
Why was Peter so bold after the day of pentecost? Because he received the gift of the Holy Spirit and walked in faith
1 John 3:
3 And every man that hath this hope in him (Jesus Christ- The Lord of the Sabbath- The Hope of Glory ) purifieth himself, even as he (Jesus Christ) is pure. (will you be sarky with this loving encouragement from the apostle John as well)
Your quote::
Ignore? Or accept the heart of it? The heart of it is: rest, on a regular basis. And I have told you, time and again, how it is that I personally honour God and God's rest.
I did ask you why God would be so petty as to demand that rest be on one particular day only, and condemn all those who love him but honour him on a different day. You didn't answer that.
It's good that you honour God on a regular basis each week; I'm glad that you so choose. I think you're going to be awfully upset if you find that the calendar isn't as you think and you find you are sabbathing on, say, Wednesday, or Tuesday. Oops!
I do not accept your (church's) assertion that one can know what day the original "7th day" was. Nor do I think it necessary to know.
Where in the bible does God state- "rest on a regular basis"?Resting on a regular basis -like sleep for 8 hrs is an understood health principle that even the heathen know. God doesn’t need to tell us to rest on a regular basis. However God did say in Exodus 20:8-10
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
So in vs 9 and vs 10- the heart of the matter that God is referring to is not that you rest on a regular basis as in physical sleep or recovery (even work insist on 2 (30 minute breaks)
and this is something people do anyway but rather He is saying, you have 6 days that you do your normal secular occupations (6 days shalt thou labour) and you can even work from sunset to sunset on these 6 days (if that's your shift work requirements) but reserve the 7th day from sunset to sunset (so you can rest and recover from the weekly toil and rest in me
spiritually- doing spiritual activities like praying Fellowship with God), studying the word, meditating, teaching
fellowshipping with believers)
Yes! We all can rest on a regular basis but can you have a sunset to sunset rest everyday of the week
That's impossible because people have to go to work, have families to feed and so forth
and that's why God hallowed and sancified a special day.
So contrary to what you are thinking, God is being very practical in nominating one special day and
he specifically created the 7th day as a sabbath keeping day for mankind.
Twinky, a little while ago you told me, "d'ya know what you may have a point" when I told you that God
rained manna on the sixth day so the children of Israel(Jews) knew when the seventh day sabbath was.
Now if you have done a bit of a back flip in saying- "the sabbatarians will be shocked to learn that the original
Seventh day might be tues or wed.This doesn’t make sense- all this just tells me that you are trying to justify
your excuse for not keeping the 7th day sabbath commandment of God
and your preference for any day of the week.
If the original seventh day was a tues, God would have rained manna on a mon. and you know what! there is one thing that Jews meticulously clung on to (even though they had all their man made traditions of which we christian sabbath keepers are not a part of)
The jews know very well which day is the 7th day sabbath- God showed it to them and they carried it on through their generations. If the 7th day sabbath was our modern Tuesday- then Jewswould have kept the sabbath on Tuesday. Can you see the jews in Israel celeberating on Tuesday, No! It is always and will be always
The 7th day i.e Saturday
So there is no resetting of calendar when God gave it to the children of Israel. It's a continous counting of the days of the week from when creation
started day1 to day 7. This was given to mankind like in the days of Noah- how do you think Noah kept track of the days?
Why would God break the calendar that he set up (numbering the days of the week from day 1 to day 7)
Your attempts to analyse with how God reset the calendar when he rained manna on the 6th day to indicate the sabbath day to the children of israel is pure conjecture and man's opinions or woman's opinions cannot be trusted
"There is a way that seemeth right to man (woman) but the end thereof is death
|In those days -before the julian and gregorian calendar named the days
It was always 1st day of the week, 2nd day of the week, 3rd day of the week and so on till 7th day of the week
like it is in the bible in the New Testament
The babylonian calendar was the first civilization to bring in a calendar system and they just adopted God's calendar which was already being used- i.e. numbering the days of the week as in 1st, 2nd and so on
When the romans came in they just named the days of the week according to their pagan days- 1st day of the
week was to their sun god and so on
Your quote:
"I do not accept your (church's) assertion that one can know what day the original "7th day" was. Nor do I think it necessary to know.
I really don’t care whether you accept or reject- it is not my church assertion- it's a fact- whether you believe it or not
it doesn’t bother me one bit.
Saying it's not necessary to know which is the 7th day sabbath really is being ignorant of God's 7th day sabbath commandment keeping which is very specific
Your quote:
"I did ask you why God would be so petty as to demand that rest be on one particular day only, and condemn
all those who love him but honour him on a different day. You didn't answer that."
God is not petty and He is commanding you to do a "sabbath rest" which is not feasible and not practical to do every day of the week
He is being very practical to the needs of mankind. He says you can do whatever you need or want to do
on six days of the week- go all out -work hard in your jobs to feed yourself and your family, rest, exercise, play golf whatever
but reserve the 7th day (Saturday)-the day I specifically created for you in heaven with me so you can rest from your weekly
toil - be free of stress from work , rest from physical activity and devote it to me (God) so you can have special fellowship
With God, reading, studying, meditating on His word and even fellowship with other believers focussing on God and His word
He doesn’t condemn at the moment all those to hell who love him and honour him on a different day.
He is asking them to wake up- the judgement will come in Matt 7:22- (The people here are saying Lord, Lord- they actually
in their own way thought they are honouring God but God a rude shock because they were dishonouring him by not following
the 7th day sabbath commandment. One of the 10 commandments
Christians with good intentions may say:
Ahh God! We love honour you but we have a better idea, we will keep the sabbath on any day we like
because we know better than you. ( Proverbs 21:2) We will keep Sunday- which is claimed by your arch enemy- satan via theman made tradition of the rc church. (Read Rome's Challenge to the Protestants)
Note if you keep any other day other than the specified 7th day- it's still man made and not of God
How is this honouring to God?Ignorant- yes, Dishonouring- yes
Note if you keep any other day- it's still man made preference and not of God
So God is not petty (as in what you think pettyness is as in pooh poohing the 7th day holy sabbath commandment of God)
I know that I can come across as being harsh but believe me that's not my intention but just declaring what
is clearly shown in the bible. God is a loving God but he also warns people ahead of time. You keep forgetting and ignoring also
that God is a God of justice- God will recompense unrepentant sinners- he will not contradict his word
I keep saying this over and over again- there is no shades of sin with God
You did say there have been some pretty good people like nicky cruz and david wilkerson who
had big time ministries. Will God judge them for not keeping the 7th day sabbath! Of Course
They had the bible but they ignored the sabbath so like you they will face (Matt 7:22)- I know its a rude shock
But like you they will have a chance to repent in the 2nd resurrection and they will be one of the first ones
to admit their mistakes. I dont about you- if you think matt 7:22 is a joke- then wait and find out
I am not taking chances and i keep the commandments of God for the simple reason that I love God
and Jesus Christ who delivered me from false religion
This is why Jesus said, "take heed"- it's so important - in judgement there is a heavy price to pay
God will carry out sentencing at the right time when he returns as the judge
and judges according to the word of God (1 John 3:4)
Like the others i am absolutely done with you on discussing the 7th day sabbath issue
From i experience, I can see that GSC forum is a spiritual grave yard - You guys have gone from the twi cult (from one end of the spectrum)
to the other (where you do what you like and not according to God's commandments and that's why you love ignoring the 7th day sabbath
commandment). Mark my words when you face judgement face to face with Jesus Christ and you receive he Matt 7:22 backlash
you will remember me. Better to repent now then to sorrowfully regret on judgement day
I have wasted enough of time. It's pointless having back and forth 7th day sabbath arguments
I wont be looking at the public forum on gsc. If you have something different and not throwing mud back
at me then PM me. We can still be friends -but no more public forum
Regarding Sabbath, here are scriptures where Jesus Christ stated his views of the day of Sabbath after being accused of doing things even to help people on the day of Sabbath by the Jews.
Quote
John 5:1-18
5 Some time later, Jesus went up to Jerusalem for a feast of the Jews. 2 Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool, which in Aramaic is called Bethesda and which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. 3 Here a great number of disabled people used to lie — the blind, the lame, the paralyzed. 5 One who was there had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time, he asked him, "Do you want to get well?"
7 "Sir," the invalid replied, "I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me."
8 Then Jesus said to him, "Get up! Pick up your mat and walk." 9 At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked.
The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, 10 and so the Jews said to the man who had been healed, "It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat."
11 But he replied, "The man who made me well said to me, 'Pick up your mat and walk.'"
12 So they asked him, "Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk?"
13 The man who was healed had no idea who it was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there.
14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you." 15 The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
NIV
Here are scriptures that showed that the Jews had a crazy and hateful mindset of so called working on the Sabbath day with Jesus trying to correct the crazy sinful mindset of at least one Jew who was healed through the faith of Jesus on the day of Sabbath. Regarding the day of Sabbath being a special day of worship. It looks to me like Jesus worshiped God his Father seven days a week and so can we through prayer.
WOW Waxit and others! Because this is Saturday we got or get to rest and sleep today, Saturday. We even get to worship God. However, I think God lets us also rest and even sleep other days also and not just only Saturday, the day of rest. We also get to even worship God, not just on Saturday, but also seven days a week. I hope that is OK to worship God seven days a week, perhaps through prayer, but I think it is.
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Twinky
Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time
WordWolf
"The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearl
WordWolf
Waxit: "The 7th day Sabbath was universally accepted by all and observed by both Jews,Gentiles and the apostles/leadership Acts 13: 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the
Waxit
Please dont call me Gabe-It's a nickname I might have used accidentally. Call me Waxit
Ok! You say you keep sabbath on Sunday (1st day of the week). That's fantastic
So what's the problem with keeping sabbath on the 7th day (Saturday) in line with the word of God
Does the fact that God of the bible has specifically commanded the 7th day (Saturday) sabbath
too much for you to handle?
Is that what you are saying?
Edited by WaxitDDoesn’t God have the right to specify the day of the week he wants sabbath day observance
He created the heavens and the earth, He created you and me- (Read Jeremiah 18:6)
If he was not specific about the 7th day, He would not have specified the 7th day as the sabbath day
and would not have specified into His Laws & Commandment (7th day sabbath is part of the 10 commandments)
You and I know that God is supreme and the most intelligent being in the whole universe and knows
what He is doing. Abraham believed and trusted God when He told him to get of his established comfort zone
in Ur of the chaldees and was greatly blessed for doing so, How about you?
Please understand I am not being sarcastic. I am trying to understand the real reason for your resistance
to 7th day sabbath in light of the fact that you say you already keep sabbath presumably on Sunday (if I am not mistaken)
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Rocky
That could be more aspirational than anything else. I mean what the heck, there's so much ambiguity and paradox, not to mention the variety of versions/translations.
I wish you well in that endeavor.
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Rocky
Really? How is it that you can see into the heart or depths of mind of any person. Can you even do that with yourself? (i.e. self-awareness)
Btw, I started addressing you as Gabe intending it to indicate respect.
I will cease doing so.
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Waxit
This is ridiculous Twinks- I mean come on- are you kidding me?
The verse below in Exodus 20:8-11 is the word of God not my words.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou,
nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
How do you say I add the words when God is plainly telling you plainly, it is the 7th day of the week
By keeping sabbath on the 1st day of the week (sunday), by your action you are adding to the word of God
and subtracting at the same time by ignoring the 7th day sabbath
I have previously posted to you about your reason for resisting the 7th day sabbath commandment
Once you have told me your real reason (fear ,concern whatever)
for resisting the 7th daysabbath day ( and I am 99.9999% sure you will not keep the 7th day sabbath as commanded by God)
Then we can agree to differ so i wont discuss the 7th day sabbath with you anymore- you can go on your merry way and I will go mine
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Twinky
Waxit, many count the first day of the week as MONDAY. How does that suit your argument? Who's to say Monday isn't the first day?
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Twinky
What is your real reason for not accepting the grace of God, and having to do one better than Jesus?
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Twinky
Waxit, we were made complete in Christ, who observed all the tenets of the law. We were circumcised with him (so, for males, that's the end of mutilation of private parts). We were buried with him; we were baptised in him, we were raised with him. Jesus took away our sin and our sins.
I wonder, do you think Jesus is alive and well, observing the sabbath in heaven or wherever he is?
We who believe kept the law with him, we kept the sabbath with him, and we are freed from the law with him. For the dead are not subject to any laws.
I believe that Jesus is alive and well in his spiritual body, in my church (and in many others) and in that form he observes a sabbath rest (of sorts) on Sundays and other days too. I say "of sorts" because the good work of my church doesn't stop on Sundays, but we're out there looking out for hurt and needy people, and fellowshipping with each other. We do that on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays AND SATURDAYS. I believe Jesus is with each one of us as we do that, too.
Edited by TwinkyLink to comment
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Waxit
Please understand that whaever I am saying- I am declaring the truth in love and this will almost end my sabbath discussion with you- it's pointless going on for both of us
and we must agree to differ. I am just answering your replies and i will be leaving it at this
Does your quote above that since Jesus Christ took away our sins, we can now continuing sinning? lie, steal etc- obviously not- so in the same way we also keep the 7th day sabbath
Nowehere in the bible does it state that Jesus bore all your sins- you can now sin as much
you like- You cannot be perfect like Jesus so go ahead lie and steal- is that the story
Jesus has kept himself
pure in this regard- so that gives you the license to go ahead and lie and steal
I keep saying this over and over but it doesnt seem to go through to you- Paul is clearly saying we keep the laws and commandments
(your major misunderstnding is that the law has been done away with and that's why you keep bringing up Col 2: 10
I told you that if you can prove from the bible that the "commandments of God' does not include the 7th day sabbath then I will join you.
But you cannot prove that - and I can - The 10 commandments - like lying, stealing, worshipping other gods are cardinal sins and everyone knows that
and the 7th day sabbath commandment- God placed it right about the middle of the 10 commandments (James 2:10)
And you dont even acknowledge or oblivious to the fact - that if you dont keep all the commandments of God
then you are not in fellowship with God of the bible who is loving .comapassionate, gracious but the age of grace
ends when you face the Lord in judgement. This is when most christians will face 7:22
Doesnt it shock you to know that you might not be in fellowship with God? How can you possible ignore this?
1 John 2:4
4 He (she) that saith, I know him (My God is a compassionate God), and keepeth not his commandments( includes the 7th day sabbath commandment), is a liar, and the truth is not in him/her
To better understand Colossians 2- go here : https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/bible-questions-and-answers/i-would-like-some-information-please-in-colossians-2
Paul is clearly saying in Romans 3:31
Romans 3:31 King James Version (KJV)
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (why is Paul saying this - have you ever wondered?)
.You may say we try to lead a sinless life and do our best by not lying and stealing- That's right! but there is one commandment among the 10 commandments
that you dont even try and keep- in fact you have never kept it and you willfully keep another day as the sabbath
not the 7th day sabbath (saturday). This is a specific commandment of God which cannot be annulled -
In a covenant law- you can add or subtract to the terms and conditions, otherwise you break it (1 John 3:4) and the 7th day commandment is a commandment you are
breaking every week and will continue to sin until you fo to the graveyard- This is the danger- unrepentance and disobedience through ignorance
Hebrews 9:27 - It is appointed for man (woman) to die once and then judgement - Matt 7:22
It's great you are doing good work- but the biblical 7th day sabbath is an inhouse rest day- where you can invite people to your home for sabbath
fellowship, studying the word, teaching, praying for healing- if you have to bandage their wounds or wash their feet (healing) , you can even do that but
it is a specific rest from your normal work day week activiies. It is impossible to keep the the 7th day sabbath that God commanded on every day of the
week- Most people are not not millionaires- and financially free to do sunset to sunset sabbath on Monday to Friday and then Sunday- It's impossible
Try doing what you are currently doing sunset to sunset on your sunday sabbath from mon to fri- so the type of 7th day sabbath that God commands is feasible and reasonable for most people on one day of the week- unless you are a millionaire and God doesnt require 6 days of sabbath keeping as he wants it from sunset to sunset-
and God has stated in His laws and commandments that it must be on the 7th day of the week (saturday).
You are right there is no more physical circumcision for the males as a sign as in Abraham's days but now it's the circumcision of the heart (spiritual)
where we put away for sins from a heart perspective. You seem to think that since Jesus Christ observed all the tenets of the law- we are not required to keep it
This is an erroneous teaching of the protestant churches who fail to understand that the law has never been done away with- It's not getting through to your head
The law or the commandments in the new covenant with Christ instituted at the last supper are spiritual where are the laws are kept with a deeper intensity of
heart and mind. If you read Hebrews, you will see that Jesus Christ is our one time sin offering and therfore the animal sacrifices have been done away with
So the christian sabbath (post cucifixion) is not observed with the physical focus of the old covenant (animal sacrifices- this was done to show how disgusting sin is- so
animal sacrifices has been done way with) but the 7th day sabbath (being a law of God- part of the 10 commandmens) has neven been done away with (Hebrews
Read this verse below very carefully: Jesus has not destroyed the law by fullfilling the law- In fact He is saying to keep all the comandments of God (icludes 7th day sabbath)
Isnt this what Paul is also saying in Romans 3:31
Matt 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, (the law has been done away with) or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
This is really, really important so pay close attention and you may understand what I am trying to get through to you:
Buried with Him, Baptised with Him and Raised with Him ( This is only for repentant sinners who are locked in with the covenant law that Jesus christ made with His church)
Do you think that "buried with Him, baptised with Him and Raised with Him" is going to be effective for people who willfully start lying
and stealing and worshipping Gods? No of course not- Breaking the 7th day commandment is just as bad as lying
and stealing according to God and you cannot add or subtract in a covenant law- it has to be exact or specific as in the commanded 7th day sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:8-11
James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point(ignoring the 7th day sabbath) , he is guilty of all.
They would be breaking the new covenant law. (1 John 3:4)
But you are breaking the new covenant law every single week Twinky, because you violate the 7th day sabbath kweeping commandment of God
and you are not repentant. How is God going to forgive you if you are unrepentant?
Hebrews 10:
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. (Matt 7:22)
Edited by WaxitLink to comment
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Waxit
Twinky, this will be my last reply to you. i am replying to your comments and questions below
You are very very very mistaken when you say- "having to do one better than Jesus"- This is an absolute copout of protestants who want to escape the
spiritually "inconvenient truth"- i.e 7th day sabbath commandment
Keeping the 7th day sabbath is not doing better than Jesus but in keeping the commandments of God -in holiness and righteousness in Jesus Christ
For those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit- they are empowered to be like Jesus Christ- Why do you think God wants us in:
1 Peter 1:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. ( Will you pooh, pooh, this from God)
If you think that God doesnt want us to put on Jesus Christ and what do you think is he reason for the presence of
indwelling Holy Spirit in obdedient and repented christians is for- To teach us and to empower us so we can be like Jesus Christ (Lord of the Sabbath")
Why was Peter so bold after the day of pentecost? Because he received the gift of the Holy Spirit and walked in faith
1 John 3:
3 And every man that hath this hope in him (Jesus Christ- The Lord of the Sabbath- The Hope of Glory )
purifieth himself, even as he (Jesus Christ) is pure. (will you be sarky with this loving encouragement from the apostle John as well)
Your quote::
Ignore? Or accept the heart of it? The heart of it is: rest, on a regular basis. And I have told you, time and again, how it is that I personally honour God and God's rest.
I did ask you why God would be so petty as to demand that rest be on one particular day only, and condemn all those who love him but honour him on a different day. You didn't answer that.
It's good that you honour God on a regular basis each week; I'm glad that you so choose. I think you're going to be awfully upset if you find that the calendar isn't as you think and you find you are sabbathing on, say, Wednesday, or Tuesday. Oops!
I do not accept your (church's) assertion that one can know what day the original "7th day" was. Nor do I think it necessary to know.
Where in the bible does God state- "rest on a regular basis"? Resting on a regular basis -like sleep for 8 hrs is an understood health principle that even the heathen know. God doesn’t need to tell us to rest on a regular basis. However God did say in Exodus 20:8-10
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
So in vs 9 and vs 10- the heart of the matter that God is referring to is not that you rest on a regular basis as in physical sleep or recovery (even work insist on 2 (30 minute breaks)
and this is something people do anyway but rather He is saying, you have 6 days that you do your normal secular occupations (6 days shalt thou labour) and you can even work from sunset to sunset on these 6 days (if that's your shift work requirements) but reserve the 7th day from sunset to sunset (so you can rest and recover from the weekly toil and rest in me
spiritually- doing spiritual activities like praying Fellowship with God), studying the word, meditating, teaching
fellowshipping with believers)
Yes! We all can rest on a regular basis but can you have a sunset to sunset rest everyday of the week
That's impossible because people have to go to work, have families to feed and so forth
and that's why God hallowed and sancified a special day.
So contrary to what you are thinking, God is being very practical in nominating one special day and
he specifically created the 7th day as a sabbath keeping day for mankind.
Twinky, a little while ago you told me, "d'ya know what you may have a point" when I told you that God
rained manna on the sixth day so the children of Israel(Jews) knew when the seventh day sabbath was.
Now if you have done a bit of a back flip in saying- "the sabbatarians will be shocked to learn that the original
Seventh day might be tues or wed. This doesn’t make sense- all this just tells me that you are trying to justify
your excuse for not keeping the 7th day sabbath commandment of God
and your preference for any day of the week.
If the original seventh day was a tues, God would have rained manna on a mon. and you know what! there is one thing that Jews meticulously clung on to (even though they had all their man made traditions of which we christian sabbath keepers are not a part of)
The jews know very well which day is the 7th day sabbath- God showed it to them and they carried it on through their generations. If the 7th day sabbath was our modern Tuesday- then Jews would have kept the sabbath on Tuesday. Can you see the jews in Israel celeberating on Tuesday, No! It is always and will be always
The 7th day i.e Saturday
So there is no resetting of calendar when God gave it to the children of Israel. It's a continous counting of the days of the week from when creation
started day1 to day 7. This was given to mankind like in the days of Noah- how do you think Noah kept track of the days?
Why would God break the calendar that he set up (numbering the days of the week from day 1 to day 7)
Your attempts to analyse with how God reset the calendar when he rained manna on the 6th day to indicate the sabbath day to the children of israel is pure conjecture and man's opinions or woman's opinions cannot be trusted
"There is a way that seemeth right to man (woman) but the end thereof is death
|In those days -before the julian and gregorian calendar named the days
It was always 1st day of the week, 2nd day of the week, 3rd day of the week and so on till 7th day of the week
like it is in the bible in the New Testament
The babylonian calendar was the first civilization to bring in a calendar system and they just adopted God's calendar which was already being used- i.e. numbering the days of the week as in 1st, 2nd and so on
When the romans came in they just named the days of the week according to their pagan days- 1st day of the
week was to their sun god and so on
Your quote:
"I do not accept your (church's) assertion that one can know what day the original "7th day" was. Nor do I think it necessary to know.
I really don’t care whether you accept or reject- it is not my church assertion- it's a fact- whether you believe it or not
it doesn’t bother me one bit.
Saying it's not necessary to know which is the 7th day sabbath really is being ignorant of God's 7th day sabbath commandment keeping which is very specific
Your quote:
"I did ask you why God would be so petty as to demand that rest be on one particular day only, and condemn
all those who love him but honour him on a different day. You didn't answer that."
God is not petty and He is commanding you to do a "sabbath rest" which is not feasible and not practical to do every day of the week
He is being very practical to the needs of mankind. He says you can do whatever you need or want to do
on six days of the week- go all out -work hard in your jobs to feed yourself and your family, rest, exercise, play golf whatever
but reserve the 7th day (Saturday) -the day I specifically created for you in heaven with me so you can rest from your weekly
toil - be free of stress from work , rest from physical activity and devote it to me (God) so you can have special fellowship
With God, reading, studying, meditating on His word and even fellowship with other believers focussing on God and His word
He doesn’t condemn at the moment all those to hell who love him and honour him on a different day.
He is asking them to wake up- the judgement will come in Matt 7:22- (The people here are saying Lord, Lord- they actually
in their own way thought they are honouring God but God a rude shock because they were dishonouring him by not following
the 7th day sabbath commandment. One of the 10 commandments
Christians with good intentions may say:
Ahh God! We love honour you but we have a better idea, we will keep the sabbath on any day we like
because we know better than you. ( Proverbs 21:2) We will keep Sunday- which is claimed by your arch enemy- satan via the man made tradition of the rc church. (Read Rome's Challenge to the Protestants)
Note if you keep any other day other than the specified 7th day- it's still man made and not of God
How is this honouring to God? Ignorant- yes, Dishonouring- yes
Note if you keep any other day- it's still man made preference and not of God
So God is not petty (as in what you think pettyness is as in pooh poohing the 7th day holy sabbath commandment of God)
I know that I can come across as being harsh but believe me that's not my intention but just declaring what
is clearly shown in the bible. God is a loving God but he also warns people ahead of time. You keep forgetting and ignoring also
that God is a God of justice- God will recompense unrepentant sinners- he will not contradict his word
I keep saying this over and over again- there is no shades of sin with God
You did say there have been some pretty good people like nicky cruz and david wilkerson who
had big time ministries. Will God judge them for not keeping the 7th day sabbath! Of Course
They had the bible but they ignored the sabbath so like you they will face (Matt 7:22)- I know its a rude shock
But like you they will have a chance to repent in the 2nd resurrection and they will be one of the first ones
to admit their mistakes. I dont about you- if you think matt 7:22 is a joke- then wait and find out
I am not taking chances and i keep the commandments of God for the simple reason that I love God
and Jesus Christ who delivered me from false religion
This is why Jesus said, "take heed"- it's so important - in judgement there is a heavy price to pay
Edited by WaxitGod will carry out sentencing at the right time when he returns as the judge
and judges according to the word of God (1 John 3:4)
Like the others i am absolutely done with you on discussing the 7th day sabbath issue
From i experience, I can see that GSC forum is a spiritual grave yard - You guys have gone from the twi cult (from one end of the spectrum)
to the other (where you do what you like and not according to God's commandments and that's why you love ignoring the 7th day sabbath
commandment). Mark my words when you face judgement face to face with Jesus Christ and you receive he Matt 7:22 backlash
you will remember me. Better to repent now then to sorrowfully regret on judgement day
I have wasted enough of time. It's pointless having back and forth 7th day sabbath arguments
I wont be looking at the public forum on gsc. If you have something different and not throwing mud back
at me then PM me. We can still be friends -but no more public forum
Over and out
Waxit
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Allan
And yet Gabe still hasn't explained Exodus 31:13 where God clearly says "I give unto you ISRAEL, the sabbath, for YOU andYOUR generations to keep"
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Mark Sanguinetti
Regarding Sabbath, here are scriptures where Jesus Christ stated his views of the day of Sabbath after being accused of doing things even to help people on the day of Sabbath by the Jews.
Here are scriptures that showed that the Jews had a crazy and hateful mindset of so called working on the Sabbath day with Jesus trying to correct the crazy sinful mindset of at least one Jew who was healed through the faith of Jesus on the day of Sabbath. Regarding the day of Sabbath being a special day of worship. It looks to me like Jesus worshiped God his Father seven days a week and so can we through prayer.
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
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Twinky
It's a pity that Waxit didn't want to engage with us on some of the other threads. I'm sure he's more than a one-horse wonder.
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T-Bone
I agree - hopefully he's not gone for good.
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Mark Sanguinetti
WOW Waxit and others! Because this is Saturday we got or get to rest and sleep today, Saturday. We even get to worship God. However, I think God lets us also rest and even sleep other days also and not just only Saturday, the day of rest. We also get to even worship God, not just on Saturday, but also seven days a week. I hope that is OK to worship God seven days a week, perhaps through prayer, but I think it is.
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
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