I am confident that Waxit is not as judgmental and bad as the Pharisees were in the first century when they opposed Jesus Christ and his followers. However, perhaps Waxit promotes the Sabbath day here on Grease Spot Cafe even more than the Pharisees did in the first century. Perhaps Waxit agrees with the Pharisees regarding the day of Sabbath, but hopefully not with as much hatred as the Pharisees promoted the day of Sabbath. As a result of the hatred of the Pharisees, the temple of worship was at least partially destroyed on Jesus' day of death. As a result of the hatred of the Pharisees when they worked with the Roman Empire to oppose and persecute Jesus Christ and his followers, their capital city of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman Empire in about 70 AD and this destruction includes the temple of worship. This was prophesied by Jesus Christ in his earthly life. However, with Waxit constantly promoting the day of Sabbath he might still want to ignore the below scriptures that clearly say that Jesus Christ told the Pharisees that the Sabbath day was made for man, even to help them, and not man for the Sabbath day. This was right after the Pharisees accused Jesus Christ and his followers of not following the Sabbath day. Hopefully Waxit who is able to understand this, will want to understand this and not think that these scriptures should be changed to his mindset.
Waxit needs to look at the context of Jesus telling the Pharisees who were accusing him and his followers for working on the Sabbath, that "the Son of Man is also the Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus said this because the Phariseeswere accusing Jesus' followers of perhaps even working on the day of Sabbath.
Quote
Mark 2:23-28
23 Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. 24 And the Pharisees said to Him, "Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?"
25 But He said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: 26 how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?"
27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."
NKJV
Here are the other verses where Jesus said he was the "Lord of the Sabbath".
Quote
Luke 6:1-11
6 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2 Some of the Pharisees asked, "Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
3 Jesus answered them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions." 5 Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of theSabbath."
6 On another Sabbath he went into the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was shriveled. 7 The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath. 8 But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Get up and stand in front of everyone." So he got up and stood there.
9 Then Jesus said to them, "I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?"
10 He looked around at them all, and then said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He did so, and his hand was completely restored. 11 But they were furious and began to discuss with one another what they might do to Jesus.
NIV
Quote
Matthew 12:1-8
12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath."
3 He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread — which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
NIV
Jesus Christ as the Son of Man relates Jesus Christ to common mortal man. The Pharisees after continually accusing Jesus and his followers of not following their Pharisees mindset of the Sabbath being a burden while condemning the innocent. Jesus Christ says this day is not a burden, while desiring mercy or a blessing through the Sabbath day instead of this day being a day of condemnation and sacrifice.
Twinky, I have answere why we can be sure that the 7th day sabbath is the original 7th day creation of God - i.e raining manna on the 6h day
but you still havent answered my two questions- Could you please answer and as you have said answering questions would be a better way
of discussing things. Please refer to my previous post and answer the 2 questions at the end
Didn't I read someplace/time that you were tired of answering questions about that subject?
7 hours ago, Waxit said:
If i was prideful and that i dont care about what oher's think- I agree with them when it is supported by the bible
and disagree with them when it's not supported in the bible- Please dont use swear words like "bloody" because the bibe does say
"we are to be holy in all manner of conversation"
Really? Bloody is a swear word? Come on Gabe.
People have been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I cannot convince you or anyone about anything but God can give you an understanding of the sabbath and why it is important and why the 7th day today is the same original 7th day sabbath day started by God in heaven when He rested from His works.
Believe me, Gabe, God has given me "an understanding of the sabbath and why it is important" - my "day of rest" is vital.
I have told you previously how I spend my "day off," but I'll just recap here. In the morning when I get up I fellowship with a friend via Zoom because he lives in another country. Then I go to church (online church, at present) and after church hang out with the rest of the congregation - just nobody wants to leave straight after church (now, we hang out in Zoom rooms after online church). Then lunch - often with a friend, often a friend who extended an invite following church - obviously not available at present. In the afternoon, a long walk enjoying God's creation: nature, birds, animals, flowers, trees. Sometimes I visit "shut-ins" who can't get to church, or even out in their community. In the evening, more hanging out with friends, chat with my Mum, etc.
In all of this I honour God and God's people. I think this is what God wants for the sabbath. Spend time with him, hang out and build family and community bonds. Learn to congregate, and get on with other people. Enjoy and celebrate his creation - both other people, and in the world of nature around us. Remember that life is not all about me, but about other people as well, other people as human beings, friends - not as customers, clients, people I work for. Have a rest from my usual things, do something different. Allow my mind and body to recuperate, and my strength to recover so that I can go out and work for another week.
I do not kill animals in church or roast them outside the church. I don't wash myself in a huge communal bath. And I don't do what I do on Saturday.
If you think that that in some way how I choose to spend Sunday dishonours God, please say how. Do you think that my "heart for God" is wrong?
I can do this on any (and every) day. God does not choose one day above another for this. However, he did choose one day on a regular basis, to make people take a rest. Because the sabbath is for man. Not man for the sabbath. Sabbath means peace, rest, does it not? "Sabbath" : from the Hebrew verb shabbat, meaning "to rest from labor." Man was made for rest, not rest for man.
Rest is needed on a regular basis - not one day off every month, or every year. But over regular shorter periods. God thinks six days of work followed by one of rest is a good plan. We all like a holiday, but if all our "rest" were the week or fortnight that we take every year, and we worked for all the other days - we'd be tired out. Not a regular enough rest. What, then, if we took every other day off? Perhaps that's too much. So God thinks about six days work is needed, but then we need to have time out.
If God is so petty that despite my "heart for him" and the many other things that I do to keep his commandments, and to love and serve my fellow human beings- but because I don't do certain things on a Saturday I am cast out and condemned forever - then I (and most other Christians) need to find a new God. One that is gracious, compassionate, kind, giving, and motivates me to be a better person towards others. Let me know if you hear of one.
Remember also that the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt and forced to work, to labour. To work very hard, in difficult conditions. I wonder if they were allowed a day of rest? Or if they had to work hard, every day, in gruelling heat and with vicious overseers.
Then, they escaped into the desert, where all their troubles were "washed away" by the flood that swept away the Egyptian pursuers. They marched around for a long time, with no record of any break. Then, they started grumbling because they were hungry and tired. They found a nice oasis and settled there for a while. They grumbled so more. Then, there was quail and manna episode. Six days of food, then no food provided on the 7th day.
Did they rest on the days since they marched out from Egypt? (I've always found this story intriguing. How do you move a horde of over a million people - all at once - do you do this by moving the back bunch forward, leapfrogging the ones ahead, and so forth, so that everyone gets an opportunity of clean space and fodder? And everyone stays put for a little while, gets a bit of rest before moving on. Be tough if everyone marched the same distance every day and the ones at the back were always the ones at the back. But this is off topic.)
And then, perhaps, there was a reintroduction of a day of rest after six days travel. Unlike Gabe, I think this might be a reintroduction rather than reinstatement of an actual day. It was a marker of significance to a different event.
But the significance is in the day of rest, following hard labour. This bunch of people would be used to working all day, every day - so being told to have a rest would surely mark a different set of rules, a different "Lord", a new overseer.
Hi Hazel
Sorry it was a long letter- it must be tiring to read it especially if you had a tiring day
I can appreciate and understand where you are coming from in terms of why you think God being loving
and compassionate is not requiring a specific day of the week.
I will have to think about this because I know that God is loving, kind and compassionate but I also know
God to be a just God- an unbiased judge, a judge/law giver who will not deny His own laws or commandments
If God was to deny his own 7th day specific sabbath commandment- then the whole bible will break down
But i also understand where you are coming from and will get back to you with a reply- after which ww can stop the sabbath
discussion (because i know probably nothing i say, in all likeihood is not going to make a difference in regards to 7th day sabbath keeping
and thereafter, we can just be friends
1 John 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous (includes 7th day sabbath)
In regards to the above satement, you got it the other way round. Sabbath (rest) was made for man and not man for sabbath (rest)
Man was not made for rest ( if that's the case man would be resting 7 days of the week)
The ideas of sabbath rest was introduced by God to give man/woman a break from their working week
The 7th day sabbath is a gift from God - so it's packaged for man spiritually.
For me it's like a weekly appointment and personal invitation from God so i wont turn down the sabbath appointment
You are entitled to make your own decision on that
You still havent answered my question though- as i said i do understand where you are coming from
You know the 7th day sabbath has never changed no matter what you want to think- like resetting- maybe its a different day- no matter it's been shifted
oh well God will understand- so again you are entitled to your own opinion- There is no reason for God to give a different day for sabbath
Since he specifically commanded 7th day sabbath observance in Exodus 20:8-11
so just letting you know that there is no doubt that God according to Exodys 20:8-11, He would have shown the children of Israel
the seventh day of the week exactly as when he started it. Genesis as you will know is the book of beginnings- the pattern is laid out in Genesis
If yu read anywhere else in the book, you can trace the pattern back to Genesis.
So- no- he did not reset the dabbath day-when he rained manna on the 6th day of the week, showing them when the sabbath day was, it would
definitely have been the original seventh day of the week. He introduced the calendar- all through out that time- the days of the week at at that time
was numbered 1,2,3,4,5,6.7th day of the week - the week just continued like that exactly as how it started in heave when God finished creating the
heavens and the earth
If like you said- God is compassionate, kind,loving which i believe- i already told in my long term, He was absolutely gracious and merciful to me.
The part i think where we differ is our understnding of God being a just God who will not deny or contract His own laws
I guess you seem to think that God being compassionate and understanding (which i agree) would overlook the specific 7th day sabbath
and allow you to keep any day which you like to keep.
So then how do you explain this verse: Please do not be evasive again
Hebrews 4:4-10 and focus on vs 10
4
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbatismos- which means keep the sabbath) to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
You can see that God is clearly specifying the seventh day in Heb 4:4
Please let me know how you would explain Hebrews 4:4-10 in light of the fact that seventh day is clearly
and specifically mentioned
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
My answer to you, Waxit:
Jesus said, in Matt 11, the following.
And I come to him. I take his yoke, which is light and easy. I don't need to try to find my own righteousness, by following the heavy and unfulfillable requirements of the law. Those requirements are set out in detail in (is it?) Leviticus.
You can try this too, Waxit: take the yoke of Jesus upon you. Fulfil Jesus's requirements and commandments. You will find them easy, not burdensome.
Quote
28Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
And I come to him. I take his yoke, which is light and easy. I don't need to try to find my own righteousness, by following the heavy and unfulfillable requirements of the law. Those requirements are set out in detail in (is it?) Leviticus.
What Jesus Christ meant here has got nothing whatsover in keeping the 7th day Sabbath>
Please note sabbath is meant for you to have complete rest (physical activity) and from the stress and work responsibilities
of the working week- what could possible be lighter than that. So sabbath is not a piece of hand cufft that you think it is
and Matt 11:28-30 has got nothing to do with sabbath. You are slapping the wrong label on the wrong scripture
Here Jesus is talking about yoke -when two oxen are yoked together- what does it mean- it means they are fitted (getting their work gear on to work)
Here it's symbolically of someone coming to Jesus with all their problem and Jesus will show them, how by taking his yoke- the problem becomes easily solved
Jesus shows them an easier way (love & forgiveness)- there is still work involved but it is solved without stress, hatred or animosity. Wiyh sabbath there is complete rest from work
Jesus shows them who He is kind, gentle, loving, peaceful and this go a long way in making the yoke light and people are in a much lighter mode
in solving their problems
If you want a more detailed explanation go here; https://www.ucg.org/united-news/that-was-easy
Again when i request for an explanation to a specific bible verse, you are being evasive- you will almost never answer my request for an explanation of the bible verse- in this case Hebrews 4. Instead of explaining the scripture as i requested, you go looking for yet another verse that "appears" to be anti 7th day sabbath"
Ok! Can you tell me what are the unfullfillable requiremens of Levitical law you are talking about?
I have told you again and again the christian biblical sabbath is not the same as the jewish sabbath which is of Judaism (man made traditions) ( the bible says in 1 John 5:3 is not burdensome but you insist that it's burdensome so who am i to believe- you or God)
Do you want a free copy of the book "Judaism- Religion of Moses or Religion of Man
While i am looking at giving you a final reply, I will in the meanwhile reply to the comments you make.
to show that to you and anyone else reading this I can explain the anti sabbath scriptures wwhile you cannot handle the
contradictory verses that says 7th day sabbath is a commandment of God. I am not doing this to boast but to show
you that I have looked into sabbath in depth- The more i look at it, the more I know i's meaning, purpose and significance
I keep telling you - the covenant that God made with Israel (physical) and the new covenant in Jesus Christ with the church (spiritual)
differ in that one is before the sacrificial death f Jesus Christ and the other is after the death of Jesus Christ on the cross.
You always have stuck on to the mindset- that sabbath is a strict code of levitical laws and i am telingl you it's not
Under the new covenant with Jesus Christ- all the animal sacifices have been done away with. It also does not include man mde traditions
All the wwwashing rituals have been done away with . For us today a clean and pure heart- when we repent our sins washed by the blood of Jesus Christ and it does the complete job
Please read Hebrews 10 for an explanation of how the form of sacrifice has changed after the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ on the cross 10 For the law having a shadow of good things ( what we are doing here is reflective of what's being done in heaven) to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
old testament- animal sacrifices new testament Jesus Christ (Lamb of God) - one sacrifice for all time
physical circumcison of males circumcion of the heart- putting away off sin
keeping of the 7th day sabbath (No indwelling of Holy spirit) keeping of the 7th day sabbath (God dwells in us via Holy Spirit)
So nothing has changed only the form in regards to the God's covenant with Israel and God's covenant with the Church
The keeping of the sabbath has not changed, will never change and it will be kept in heaven for all eternity- that's how nimportant it is
No, I'm not answering your questions any more, until you learn to assimilate that which is already written, which, despite your protestations, is an answer.
And no thanks, I don't want the free book that your current church is peddling.
I don't know anything about Jewish sabbaths, except that the Jews find ways to make life easy for themselves, rather than the severe restrictions that rabbis placed on them.
If you were referring to rules in Leviticus and other Books of the Law, these are not Jewish but addressed to all the Israelites and the vast number of hangers-on who travelled with them out of Egypt.
Judah should have observed all those Levitical laws; rabbis laid other traditions on top, known as "a hedge around the Torah." These, though perhaps originally kindly meant, ended up being severely restrictive. "Don't light fires" was one such: because a man might need light a fire to heat water to do his job, or to cause metal to melt enough to be worked, etc. But that became "don't light fires even if it's cold or to cook your meal," which is not what God intended. "Don't carry things" was another such tradition: because a man might be carrying his work tools or some necessary thing to facilitate his work. But that became, "don't carry anything on the sabbath" and so (in "recent" times), Jews sew or pin a handkerchief onto their jacket, so that it's "part of the garment" and therefore they're not "carrying it" to blow their noses, which is clearly nonsense.
You didn't answer my question: why were you posting here on Saturday mid-afternoon? That'd be "work," wouldn't it?
And I come to him. I take his yoke, which is light and easy. I don't need to try to find my own righteousness, by following the heavy and unfulfillable requirements of the law. Those requirements are set out in detail in (is it?) Leviticus.
You can try this too, Waxit: take the yoke of Jesus upon you. Fulfil Jesus's requirements and commandments. You will find them easy, not burdensome.
Sure- i definitely agree with you to take the yoke of Jesus (love, kindness, gentleness and humility , but it's nothing to do with keeping the sabbath
(yoke in this case is what you put on to make your task (work) a bit easier. As i explained in my earlier reply, sabbath is for rest - cease from work and rest in God
In fact keeping the sabbath is time well spent in studying and meditating on God's word and can be spent to learn about Jesus Christ and how to put on His yoke
which is much lighter to solve problems the easier way. You can go to Jesus anytime but what better way then to spend time in the word and fellowship with
God on his definite appointed day and time- Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath
The 7th day from sunset to sunset- includes everthing rest (sleep), worship and fellowship- study,meditate,pray
As for Jesus requirements, please read this and understand, they are Jesus words- you fullfill Jesus words and the love commandment
when you obey His words. Please, please Twinky, i beg you - meditate on this scripture below (ask God for clarity- if it still doesnt resonate with you
lets not pay attention to what we want but what Jesus wants
This is God's commandments and God's requirements ( God and Jesus Christ are one)
Jeremiah 7:23
But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and
ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded ( includes 7th day sabbath)
you, that it may be well unto you.
His requirements are not grievious. (why can sabbath not be any of the other 6 days-that's your commandment not God's)
You love and honour God when you discard your own commandments and cling to God's commandments
which is truth (7th day was created by God- it's valid today as the day when it was first createdw- that's why God doesnt reset)
which is love and whch benefits us. Sabbath is something that gives physical rest and spiritual rest in God and if you are going to do
something then follow it through to it's entirety the way God wants it
This is His commandments and His requirements
1 John 5:3King James Version (KJV)
3 For this is the love of God (your favourite commandment), that we keephiscommandments: and his commandments (includes 7th day sabbath) are not grievous.
If you can honesty say and prove from the bible that His commandments above in 1 John 5:3 does not include the 7th day sabbath (10 commandments)
then i will join you and your church
Waxit, I don't agree at all with you about that, and I can't see anything that will convince me to. I thank you that you've offered a thought-provoking discussion - from the heart in my case, from (it often seems) the website of another church/cult in your case, though I accept that you wholly believe what you are writing. This discussion has caused me to re-examine and deepen some of my theology, but I am not going to put myself under the legalism of another cult.
I'm sure you know the old adage: "A man convinced against his will /Is of the same opinion still."
We shall just have to agree to differ - your church, differing from almost the whole of the rest of Christianity, which doesn't recognise this 7th day/Saturday stuff.
Do check out some of the other threads here. You might get to know some of us better.
WordWolf has started a new thread on differences between US English and UK English. You might think of a few examples from some of those other countries you've lived in.
No, I'm not answering your questions any more, until you learn to assimilate that which is already written, which, despite your protestations, is an answer.
And no thanks, I don't want the free book that your current church is peddling.
I don't know anything about Jewish sabbaths, except that the Jews find ways to make life easy for themselves, rather than the severe restrictions that rabbis placed on them.
If you were referring to rules in Leviticus and other Books of the Law, these are not Jewish but addressed to all the Israelites and the vast number of hangers-on who travelled with them out of Egypt.
Judah should have observed all those Levitical laws; rabbis laid other traditions on top, known as "a hedge around the Torah." These, though perhaps originally kindly meant, ended up being severely restrictive. "Don't light fires" was one such: because a man might need light a fire to heat water to do his job, or to cause metal to melt enough to be worked, etc. But that became "don't light fires even if it's cold or to cook your meal," which is not what God intended. "Don't carry things" was another such tradition: because a man might be carrying his work tools or some necessary thing to facilitate his work. But that became, "don't carry anything on the sabbath" and so (in "recent" times), Jews sew or pin a handkerchief onto their jacket, so that it's "part of the garment" and therefore they're not "carrying it" to blow their noses, which is clearly nonsense.
You didn't answer my question: why were you posting here on Saturday mid-afternoon? That'd be "work," wouldn't it?
I am sorry if i come across as insulting and arrogant Twinky- i didnt do it to intentionally to hurt you. I have also answered your question below
I was speaking the truth when i pointed out your wrong inderstanding of that particular scripture- "Take my yoke upon you"
We all make mistakes sometimes including me
and I am certainly saying I am not perfect. Mark poined out the word "sabbath" was only stated 10 times in Hebrews, I checked it out and he was right
so I told him, he was right and that i stand corrected
Many people got offended with Jesus Christ because he told them the truth
Since when is a free book called "peddling" (that shows you that the levitical(judaism) laws is not part of the christian bible
The "hedge around torah" is jewish man made regulations (which is nonsense). Guys anyone genuinely interested in this free book-"Judaism- Religion of Moses or Religion of Man "PM me and I will let you know where you can request a free copy
The orthodox jews are hypocrites who rely on their "own efforts" to make ultra ultra sure- all the commandments are being observed "100%" right down to the pin on the shirt and that is hogwash. Their whole idea of keeping the sabbath is totally screwed up in legalism and not the heart behind it
The Torah is a jewish bible - The jews dont even recognise Jesus Christ as the messiah, and so why would you want to pay attention to a jewish bible
and worse pin their man made laws on to the christian bible sabbath.
If there is a law in the book of leviticus in the bible- that makes it awkard (God did say His commandments are not grievious)- please understand all the ritual rules have been done away with, in the person of
Jesus Christ - who was the sacrificial lamb of God. The Sabbath was never done away with. It's part of the 10 commandments that will be there for all eternity
Jesus Christ who is the Lord of the Sabbth said- "I am the same, yesterday, today and forever
If you want to ignore the 7th day sabbath and you indeed valid in saying that and it is correct and ok with God- then please understand, that will also
give you the right to lie and steal. Can that happen- of course not- No liar shall enter the kingdom of God (1 John 2:4)
All right Twinky- sometimes I do miss your posts- because i am not a fan of the public forum in gsc.
Please note I will now answer your question:
Why did i email you on sabbath
16 hours ago, Twinky said:
You didn't answer my question: why were you posting here on Saturday mid-afternoon? That'd be "work," wouldn't it?
No! definitely not. This is why i keep telling you and you keep ignoring me. Your levitical laws sticking on the sabbath isnt valid
when you understand God allows freedom within the parameters he has defined- sabbath- 7th day- sunset to sunset- rest from physical labour of daily acivities
By all means focus on spiritual activities- the jews with their levitical laws even accused Jesus of healing the crippled man- He called then hypocrites
healing is a spiritual activity as emailing someone telling them regarding the sabbath- did i commuicate with you regarding the share market - no
If you are saying that we sabbath keepers are "performing" work because we are emailing and tapping on some keys telling them about the sabbath
then by the same token, you can also consider putting food into your mouth as work- can you see how ridiculous it can get?
I wonder why the orthodox jews didnt write - "no feeding yourself" on sabbath" into their jewish torah- wwouldnt see any fat rabbis, would we?
On sabbath we communicate online about spiritual things- would you consider that labour as a strenuos wphysical activity
You say you keep "sabbath" on sunday, and you meet online. so obviously you have to tap a few keys- would you consider that work?
Now that i have answered your question- please answer my question:
Why do you think that among all the 10 commandments, wwe should keep 9 commandments and ignore only the 4th commandment ( i.e 7th day sabbath keeping commandment)
Did God not tell us not to add or subtract from His Word (Laws & Commandments) included
Here is a scripture to consider when answering:
Deut 4:2
2 Ye shall not add to the word (keep any day of the week except 7th day-saturday) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish (ignore the 7th day sabbath) ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of theLordyour God which I command you.
(that shows you that the levitical(judaism) laws is not part of the christian bible
The "hedge around torah" is jewish man made regulations (which is nonsense).
Guys anyone genuinely interested in this free book-"Judaism- Religion of Moses or Religion of Man "PM me and I will let you know where you can request a free copy
13 hours ago, waysider said:
The book is not what's being peddled, it's the ideology it promotes.
9 hours ago, Waxit said:
It's a book that examines judaism- there is nothing to peddle
Peddling or selling is to offer something in exchange for money or something else of value; it can also mean to persuade someone of the merits of something; promoting an acceptance of a belief, idea or set of ideas; to persuade someone of the value or desirability of something ( see here )
I found the book "Judaism--Revelation of Moses Or Religion of Men?" by Philip Neal on the same website I found the other books from Waxit’s “reading assignments” – and like the other books, the website allows you to read this book online - here Philip Neal's book online
After checking out some of the chapters I would say the author definitely exhibits a strong bias while examining Judaism and is unabashedly trying to sell (or persuade) readers on a number of ideas – one of which is that the author has “read properly” Acts 10 ( I referred to Acts 10 much earlier on this thread - here )– as Philip Neal states here:
“Obviously, too many assume that the apostle Peter's vision in Acts 10 represents a reversal of God's laws prohibiting unclean meats. However, nowhere in the passage is it ever suggested that God had cleansed unclean meats. Rather, this is something “read into” the section by those with a predisposition against God's laws. When the passage is read properly, it becomes obvious that Peter's vision in no way authorized a change in the laws of clean and unclean meats. In fact, Peter's vision had nothing at all to do with clean and unclean meats.” from appendix 4 of Neal's book
On the contrary, I think it’s obvious that Acts 10 involves a lot more than just putting an end to the Old Testament dietary restrictions – for in making such changes to the law, God made it possible for the church to unite both Jew and Gentile through the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ. See Acts 10 in NASB
Thus to accomplish this unity it was necessary to abolish the ceremonial laws and sacrifices that distinguished the Jews as distinct and separated from the Gentiles – as mentioned in Ephesians:
“ Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.” Ephesians 2:11-22 NASB
Back then – as today there are those who insist it’s necessary to adopt the law of Moses...one such group were Judaizers. They were "Christians who teach it is necessary to adopt Jewish customs and practices, especially those found in the Law of Moses, to be saved. The term is derived from the Koine Greek word Ἰουδαΐζειν (Ioudaizein), used once in the Greek New Testament (Galatians 2:14),when Paul publicly challenges Peter for compelling Gentile converts to Early Christianity to "judaize".This episode is known as the incident at Antioch. This term includes groups who claim the necessity of continued obedience to the Law of Moses found in the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) for gentiles.Members of such groups dispute the label because "Judaizers" is typically used as a pejorative." See Wikipedia Judaizers ....a couple of pertinent references are in Acts 15 and Galatians 2 ...
Insistence on the necessity of following the ceremonial laws and sacrifices of the Old Testament trivializes the comprehensive sacrificial work of Jesus Christ –and seems to be an effort to drive a wedge between those whom God has united – now referred to as the church.
We shall just have to agree to differ - your church, differing from almost the whole of the rest of Christianity, which doesn't recognise this 7th day/Saturday stuff.
Yep! we will agree to differ. I agree that most of christianity ignores the 7th day sabbath and i have stated this again and again.
It doesnt necessarily mean you guys who are anti 7day sabbath are right- even if 99% is against he 7th day sabbath commandment
it doesn't mean you are right. (Rev 12:9). So I agree to differ and I am really happy that God opened my eyes but I will respect
what others believe- you are entitled to believe what you want to believe. I just dont want to be shocked come judgement time.
If you are pretty confident and believe that Matt 7:22 doesnt apply to you and somehow you have special exemption and btw
when Jesus Christ comes back - it's not the age of grace anymore- He is coming back to judge- 1 Peter 4:17
so if all this doesnt bother you- so be it- i will leave it at that
I have one last question for you though which may or may not give you food for thought and I would be interested to know your thoughts
This is the question that i asked and you have left unanswered:
Why is it that among all the 10 commandments- most believing christian respect and obey- all the other 9 commandments
as in thout shalt not lie, thou shalt not steal...and so forth but ignore the 4th commandment to keep the 7th day Sabbath
I cannot understand how we can ignore one of God's commandments (they are all important), so why do christians choose to ignore the specific 7th day sabbath which is clearly a part of the 10 commandments?
especially when God also says in: Deuteronomy 4:2
2 Ye shall not add unto the word (7th day sabbath) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish (keep any of the other 6 days week for the weekly sabbath ) ought from it, that ye maykeep the commandments of theLordyour God which I command you.
However, with Waxit constantly promoting the day of Sabbath he might still want to ignore the below scriptures that clearly say that Jesus Christ told the Pharisees that the Sabbath day was made for man, even to help them, and not man for the Sabbath day. This was right after the Pharisees accused Jesus Christ and his followers of not following the Sabbath day. Hopefully Waxit who is able to understand this, will want to understand this and not think that these scriptures should be changed to his mindset.
Waxit needs to look at the context of Jesus telling the Pharisees who were accusing him and his followers for working on the Sabbath, that "the Son of Man is also the Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus said this because the Phariseeswere accusing Jesus' followers of perhaps even working on the day of Sabbath.
This is the very last time you will see me replying to you in gsc public forum - I dont really care what kind of comments you make from now on
Just to clarify your above comment for the last time
Promotion is the wrong word- Declaring the truth is more appropriate. I dont have any hatred that the pharisees -
if i do have hatred than i have sinned and i honestly dont have hatred but just sad that no one in gsc has responded positively to God's 7th day sabbath commeanment
I dont know where you got this idea that I am a pharisee type- not as bad as a pharisee but still a pharisee- that's absolute nonsense and you also judging me and
the worst part, judging me wronly
I think you make these type of comments because you just dont get it rearding the validity of the 7th day sabbath
- you have got your understanding of the sabbath reversed from what it is actually sayong
Do you go to the ucg link - i sent you- do go there Mark, seriously and you will then be able o answer people from the scriptures
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/sunset-to-sunset-gods-sabbath-rest/jesus-christ-and-the-sabbath
when they are ask you why 7th day sabbath is important. You wont be rubbishing it when you understand how the 7th day sabbath fits
perfectly into the plan of God and why it's very important If you visit the link, you will learn the meaning of the sabbath and why it's so important and you will stop making comments like the one above
The phrase "Sabbath is made for Man and not Man for the Sabbath is misunderstood by a lot of christians and is
a favourite excuse for anti sabbatarians because they think the Lord is saying, you dont have to keep the sabbath
I the Lord am Lor of the sabbath and i the Lord give you the authority to do what you like- Thats absolute hogwash
Why am I saying thiws? For the simple reason that God will not break His own laws. Refer to Exodus 20:8-11 on your software
look at what Paul is saying- anywhere in the bible where it says, "commandments" referring to God's commandments
not man made commandments (judaism) - it includes the 4th commandment- i.e 7th day sabbath commandment
Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (includes the 7th day sabbath commandment)
What will happen in America- if there was total lawlessness, anyone can go the bank- rob the bank and get away
with it. The police will not come after you- like this you can do anything like- lie, murder
If this is the case then there will be absolute mayhem and a total breakdown of society- so what about the universe
over which God is in control- it will fall apart if God was a lawless God and did not follow His own governing laws.
Jesus Christ as the "Lord of the Sabbath" doesnt mean He gives you the authorty to do what you like but that you follow
His example of what He is and what He created the 7thday Sabbath and the Lord of the Sabbath.
Ignoring and going against the 7th day Sabbath is going against the spiritual law of God and as a result there is a break down in
relationship with God- The 7th day sabbath is a commandment that specifically relates to relationship and fellowship with God
Yes! The pharisees hated Jesus Christ - they couldnt fault him because He was already keeping the keeping the sabbath so
they tried to muscle in on "how he was keeping the sabbath"- Mark, noe there's a very important difference between
saying "keeping the sabbath" and "how He and his disciples were keeping the sabbath"
If you read the gospels Mark, I gurantee you there iws not one single time, the pharisess confronted Jesus Christ about
whether "He kept the sabbath" but rather "How He kept the sabbath". The pharisees wanted Jesus o obey their man ade laws (judaism)
When it says sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath
You will see in Genesis that God created man first before He created the 7th day
That shows He took into account the needs of man for pphysical rest and also the need to rest in God- a special day
at the end of week to commune with God and a day devoted to God in godly acivities likes fellowship,studying, meditating on the word of God
So Sabbath was specifically made for man so how can man (dust of the earth) turn around and ignore the 7th day sabbath which was made for him
God did not make the sabbath and then tried to conform man to fit the sabbath. No, no ,no
God made man and took into account the needs of man for physical rest and for him to rest in God (spiritual rest and revitalising
example reading the word, meditation on the word of God, worship of the one true God etc
and then He created the 7th day sabbath
Can you see now how "Sabbath was made for Man and Not Man for Sabbath" and how this fits into God's plan for the well being of Man
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (includes the 7th day sabbath commandment)
Perhaps we should thank Waxit for inspiring us to do the research showing that the day of Sabbath is NOT important compared to faith in Jesus Christ. Yet Waxit wants to continually try to add his mindset to the scriptures. As one of MANY examples here on GSC doctrinal. Waxit has a long post with his comments that include accusations to someone named Mark Sanguinetti, yet Waxit does this with only one scripture quote , while again trying to get people to ignore the context of the one scripture that Waxit quotes from, while again trying to add his mindset of the 7th day Sabbath to one scripture. Here is the context of the one scripture that Waxit quotes from while again trying to add his mindset to the scripture.
Quote
Romans 3:19-31
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
NIV
Because I do not have time to write comments now regarding these scriptures because of other biblical research that I am doing with even a biblical book with articles that I am writing. I am instead simply copying from a biblical commentary pertaining to Romans 3:19-31.
Quote
In Romans 3:19-20: the whole world is guilty before God! The Law that the Jews thought would save them merely condemns them; for the Law gives the knowledge of sin. (Mark S. note: Yes this includes the law of the day of Sabbath, which the Pharisees often accused Jesus and his followers of not following.)
Romans 3:21-31
II. The Good News: Justification by Faith (3:21-31)
A. Apart from the Law.
Verse 21 can be paraphrased, "But now, in this age of grace, a righteousness - a new kind of righteousness has been revealed, but not one that depends on the Law."People today want righteousness by the Law and by works, but Paul has already proved that the Law condemns and can never save. This grace-righteousness was, however, seen in the OT. Abraham, for example, was declared righteous because of his faith (Genesis 15:6). Habakkuk 2:4 says, "The just shall live by faith." Read Romans 9:30-33 and see why Israel missed this righteousness by faith.
Note how often Paul uses the word "faith." Verse 23 can be read, "For all have sinned [once-for-all in Adam] and are constantly coming short of the glory of God." Then Paul introduces several important terms:
Justified - declared righteous in God's sight through the merits of Christ, secure in our position in Christ before the throne of God. justification is God's righteousness imputed, put to our account. Sanctification is righteousness imparted, or lived out in our daily lives.
Redemption - deliverance from sin and its penalties, by the payment of a price. This price was Christ's blood on the cross.
Propitiation - Christ's sacrifice satisfied God's holy law, thus making it possible for God to forgive sinners and remain just Himself. God's justice has been satisfied; He may now look with kindness and grace upon a lost world.
"Justified freely by His grace" (v. 24)! What a thrilling statement! Not by works, good intentions, gifts, or prayers, but freely by His grace alone. It is in this letter that Paul explains how God can be both "just and justifier" (v. 26), and the answer is the cross. When Jesus died, He bore our sins in His own body (1 Peter 2:24) and thus paid the price God's law demanded. But He arose again! Thus He is alive and able to save all who will believe!
Verse 25 teaches that in the ages before the full revelation of the Gospel of Christ, God appeared to be unjust in "passing over" the sins of mankind and forgiving such people as Noah, Abraham, and Enoch. True, He did send wrath in some cases; but generations of sinners seemed to escape the judgment of God. How was God able to do this? Because He knew that at the cross, He would give a full display of His wrath against sin, and yet through Christ's death provide a redemption for sins that had merely been "covered" by the blood of bulls and goats (Hebrews 9-10).
C. Accepted by faith (vv. 27-31). "Hear the conclusion of the whole matter!" The Jew has nothing to boast of, because all sinners are justified by faith and not by the works of the Law.If justification is by the Law, then He is a God of the Jews only, because only Israel had the Law.But God is also the God of the Gentiles. Therefore, both Jews and Gentiles are saved the same way - by faith. And this simple means of salvation does not cancel the Law, for the Law demanded death for sin, and Christ died for our sins. Thus, the Gospel establishes the Law. God's Law reveals my need of grace, and God's grace enables me to obey the Law.
And this is something that Waxit will again try to get people to ignore, while he adds his Mindset to scriptures. The day of Sabbath is not mentioned in the epistle to the Gentile Romans. Thank you again Waxit for inspiring us here on Grease Spot Cafe to do the biblical research that shows that following the Old Testament law's day of Sabbath is not important in comparison to faith in Jesus Christ.
2 Ye shall not add unto the word (7th day sabbath) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish (keep any of the other 6 days week for the weekly sabbath ) ought from it, that ye maykeep the commandments of theLordyour God which I command you.
Ye shall not add unto the word … BUT THEN YOU DO ADD by including the words "7TH DAY SABBATH"!!!!!!
Yep! we will agree to differ. I agree that most of christianity ignores the 7th day sabbath and i have stated this again and again.
It doesnt necessarily mean you guys who are anti 7day sabbath are right- even if 99% is against he 7th day sabbath commandment
it doesn't mean you are right. (Rev 12:9). So I agree to differ and I am really happy that God opened my eyes but I will respect
what others believe- you are entitled to believe what you want to believe. I just dont want to be shocked come judgement time.
If you are pretty confident and believe that Matt 7:22 doesnt apply to you and somehow you have special exemption and btw
when Jesus Christ comes back - it's not the age of grace anymore- He is coming back to judge- 1 Peter 4:17
so if all this doesnt bother you- so be it- i will leave it at that
Do you see how judgmental this sounds? "I agree to differ" but you're sill wrong and you're gonna be shocked come judgment time, because you think you have special exemption and I, Waxit, say that you don't.
Waxit, it may be the other way round! You think old laws apply to you and you are actually free from them. Maybe Jesus will say, "Waxit, why do you keep putting yourself into bondage? Do you like shackles, when I paid the price for you? Is what I did somehow not enough for you?"
Why do you think that among all the 10 commandments, we should keep 9 commandments and ignore only the 4th commandment ( i.e 7th day sabbath keeping commandment)
Ignore? Or accept the heart of it? The heart of it is: rest, on a regular basis. And I have told you, time and again, how it is that I personally honour God and God's rest.
I did ask you why God would be so petty as to demand that rest be on one particular day only, and condemn all those who love him but honour him on a different day. You didn't answer that.
It's good that you honour God on a regular basis each week; I'm glad that you so choose. I think you're going to be awfully upset if you find that the calendar isn't as you think and you find you are sabbathing on, say, Wednesday, or Tuesday. Oops!
I do not accept your (church's) assertion that one can know what day the original "7th day" was. Nor do I think it necessary to know.
Ye shall not add unto the word … BUT THEN YOU DO ADD by including the words "7TH DAY SABBATH"!!!!!!
Perhaps we should congratulate Waxit for a Grease Spot Cafe record for adding a phrase of his promotion and mindset to his posts. Congratulations Waxit!
Do you see how judgmental this sounds? "I agree to differ" but you're sill wrong and you're gonna be shocked come judgment time, because you think you have special exemption and I, Waxit, say that you don't.
Waxit, it may be the other way round! You think old laws apply to you and you are actually free from them. Maybe Jesus will say, "Waxit, why do you keep putting yourself into bondage? Do you like shackles, when I paid the price for you? Is what I did somehow not enough for you?"
I'm guessing that our good friend Gabe does NOT see how judgmental it sounds.
I think it is unfair for you to call my church/organization a cult (that is your opinion- how would you like it if I came out on public forum on gsc and
said- the church that you belong to is pagan and false.
A cult is where you are controlled by what the organization dictates- (contrary to the word of God)
I dont belong to any particular church nor am I controlled by church idealogies- I go by the written word of God and communing wwith God)
Cult is not where I am - far fom it- I have learnt the lessons of twi
as I am sure you have learnt as well
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Twinky
Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time
WordWolf
"The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearl
WordWolf
Waxit: "The 7th day Sabbath was universally accepted by all and observed by both Jews,Gentiles and the apostles/leadership Acts 13: 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the
Mark Sanguinetti
I am confident that Waxit is not as judgmental and bad as the Pharisees were in the first century when they opposed Jesus Christ and his followers. However, perhaps Waxit promotes the Sabbath day here on Grease Spot Cafe even more than the Pharisees did in the first century. Perhaps Waxit agrees with the Pharisees regarding the day of Sabbath, but hopefully not with as much hatred as the Pharisees promoted the day of Sabbath. As a result of the hatred of the Pharisees, the temple of worship was at least partially destroyed on Jesus' day of death. As a result of the hatred of the Pharisees when they worked with the Roman Empire to oppose and persecute Jesus Christ and his followers, their capital city of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman Empire in about 70 AD and this destruction includes the temple of worship. This was prophesied by Jesus Christ in his earthly life. However, with Waxit constantly promoting the day of Sabbath he might still want to ignore the below scriptures that clearly say that Jesus Christ told the Pharisees that the Sabbath day was made for man, even to help them, and not man for the Sabbath day. This was right after the Pharisees accused Jesus Christ and his followers of not following the Sabbath day. Hopefully Waxit who is able to understand this, will want to understand this and not think that these scriptures should be changed to his mindset.
Waxit needs to look at the context of Jesus telling the Pharisees who were accusing him and his followers for working on the Sabbath, that "the Son of Man is also the Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus said this because the Pharisees were accusing Jesus' followers of perhaps even working on the day of Sabbath.
Quote
Mark 2:23-28
23 Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. 24 And the Pharisees said to Him, "Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?"
25 But He said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: 26 how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?"
27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."
NKJV
Here are the other verses where Jesus said he was the "Lord of the Sabbath".
Quote
Luke 6:1-11
6 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2 Some of the Pharisees asked, "Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
3 Jesus answered them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions." 5 Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
6 On another Sabbath he went into the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was shriveled. 7 The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath. 8 But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Get up and stand in front of everyone." So he got up and stood there.
9 Then Jesus said to them, "I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?"
10 He looked around at them all, and then said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He did so, and his hand was completely restored. 11 But they were furious and began to discuss with one another what they might do to Jesus.
NIV
Quote
Matthew 12:1-8
12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath."
3 He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread — which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
NIV
Jesus Christ as the Son of Man relates Jesus Christ to common mortal man. The Pharisees after continually accusing Jesus and his followers of not following their Pharisees mindset of the Sabbath being a burden while condemning the innocent. Jesus Christ says this day is not a burden, while desiring mercy or a blessing through the Sabbath day instead of this day being a day of condemnation and sacrifice.
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Rocky
Didn't I read someplace/time that you were tired of answering questions about that subject?
Really? Bloody is a swear word? Come on Gabe.
Edited by RockyPeople have been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Otherwise TL;DR
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Twinky
Believe me, Gabe, God has given me "an understanding of the sabbath and why it is important" - my "day of rest" is vital.
I have told you previously how I spend my "day off," but I'll just recap here. In the morning when I get up I fellowship with a friend via Zoom because he lives in another country. Then I go to church (online church, at present) and after church hang out with the rest of the congregation - just nobody wants to leave straight after church (now, we hang out in Zoom rooms after online church). Then lunch - often with a friend, often a friend who extended an invite following church - obviously not available at present. In the afternoon, a long walk enjoying God's creation: nature, birds, animals, flowers, trees. Sometimes I visit "shut-ins" who can't get to church, or even out in their community. In the evening, more hanging out with friends, chat with my Mum, etc.
In all of this I honour God and God's people. I think this is what God wants for the sabbath. Spend time with him, hang out and build family and community bonds. Learn to congregate, and get on with other people. Enjoy and celebrate his creation - both other people, and in the world of nature around us. Remember that life is not all about me, but about other people as well, other people as human beings, friends - not as customers, clients, people I work for. Have a rest from my usual things, do something different. Allow my mind and body to recuperate, and my strength to recover so that I can go out and work for another week.
I do not kill animals in church or roast them outside the church. I don't wash myself in a huge communal bath. And I don't do what I do on Saturday.
If you think that that in some way how I choose to spend Sunday dishonours God, please say how. Do you think that my "heart for God" is wrong?
I can do this on any (and every) day. God does not choose one day above another for this. However, he did choose one day on a regular basis, to make people take a rest. Because the sabbath is for man. Not man for the sabbath. Sabbath means peace, rest, does it not? "Sabbath" : from the Hebrew verb shabbat, meaning "to rest from labor." Man was made for rest, not rest for man.
Rest is needed on a regular basis - not one day off every month, or every year. But over regular shorter periods. God thinks six days of work followed by one of rest is a good plan. We all like a holiday, but if all our "rest" were the week or fortnight that we take every year, and we worked for all the other days - we'd be tired out. Not a regular enough rest. What, then, if we took every other day off? Perhaps that's too much. So God thinks about six days work is needed, but then we need to have time out.
If God is so petty that despite my "heart for him" and the many other things that I do to keep his commandments, and to love and serve my fellow human beings- but because I don't do certain things on a Saturday I am cast out and condemned forever - then I (and most other Christians) need to find a new God. One that is gracious, compassionate, kind, giving, and motivates me to be a better person towards others. Let me know if you hear of one.
Edited by TwinkyLink to comment
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Twinky
Remember also that the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt and forced to work, to labour. To work very hard, in difficult conditions. I wonder if they were allowed a day of rest? Or if they had to work hard, every day, in gruelling heat and with vicious overseers.
Then, they escaped into the desert, where all their troubles were "washed away" by the flood that swept away the Egyptian pursuers. They marched around for a long time, with no record of any break. Then, they started grumbling because they were hungry and tired. They found a nice oasis and settled there for a while. They grumbled so more. Then, there was quail and manna episode. Six days of food, then no food provided on the 7th day.
Did they rest on the days since they marched out from Egypt? (I've always found this story intriguing. How do you move a horde of over a million people - all at once - do you do this by moving the back bunch forward, leapfrogging the ones ahead, and so forth, so that everyone gets an opportunity of clean space and fodder? And everyone stays put for a little while, gets a bit of rest before moving on. Be tough if everyone marched the same distance every day and the ones at the back were always the ones at the back. But this is off topic.)
And then, perhaps, there was a reintroduction of a day of rest after six days travel. Unlike Gabe, I think this might be a reintroduction rather than reinstatement of an actual day. It was a marker of significance to a different event.
But the significance is in the day of rest, following hard labour. This bunch of people would be used to working all day, every day - so being told to have a rest would surely mark a different set of rules, a different "Lord", a new overseer.
Read about it in Ex 14-16.
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Waxit
Hi Hazel
Sorry it was a long letter- it must be tiring to read it especially if you had a tiring day
I can appreciate and understand where you are coming from in terms of why you think God being loving
and compassionate is not requiring a specific day of the week.
I will have to think about this because I know that God is loving, kind and compassionate but I also know
God to be a just God- an unbiased judge, a judge/law giver who will not deny His own laws or commandments
If God was to deny his own 7th day specific sabbath commandment- then the whole bible will break down
But i also understand where you are coming from and will get back to you with a reply- after which ww can stop the sabbath
discussion (because i know probably nothing i say, in all likeihood is not going to make a difference in regards to 7th day sabbath keeping
and thereafter, we can just be friends
1 John 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous (includes 7th day sabbath)
In regards to the above satement, you got it the other way round. Sabbath (rest) was made for man and not man for sabbath (rest)
Man was not made for rest ( if that's the case man would be resting 7 days of the week)
The ideas of sabbath rest was introduced by God to give man/woman a break from their working week
The 7th day sabbath is a gift from God - so it's packaged for man spiritually.
For me it's like a weekly appointment and personal invitation from God so i wont turn down the sabbath appointment
You are entitled to make your own decision on that
You still havent answered my question though- as i said i do understand where you are coming from
You know the 7th day sabbath has never changed no matter what you want to think- like resetting- maybe its a different day- no matter it's been shifted
oh well God will understand- so again you are entitled to your own opinion- There is no reason for God to give a different day for sabbath
Since he specifically commanded 7th day sabbath observance in Exodus 20:8-11
so just letting you know that there is no doubt that God according to Exodys 20:8-11, He would have shown the children of Israel
the seventh day of the week exactly as when he started it. Genesis as you will know is the book of beginnings- the pattern is laid out in Genesis
If yu read anywhere else in the book, you can trace the pattern back to Genesis.
So- no- he did not reset the dabbath day-when he rained manna on the 6th day of the week, showing them when the sabbath day was, it would
definitely have been the original seventh day of the week. He introduced the calendar- all through out that time- the days of the week at at that time
was numbered 1,2,3,4,5,6.7th day of the week - the week just continued like that exactly as how it started in heave when God finished creating the
heavens and the earth
If like you said- God is compassionate, kind,loving which i believe- i already told in my long term, He was absolutely gracious and merciful to me.
The part i think where we differ is our understnding of God being a just God who will not deny or contract His own laws
I guess you seem to think that God being compassionate and understanding (which i agree) would overlook the specific 7th day sabbath
and allow you to keep any day which you like to keep.
So then how do you explain this verse: Please do not be evasive again
Hebrews 4:4-10 and focus on vs 10
4
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbatismos- which means keep the sabbath) to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
You can see that God is clearly specifying the seventh day in Heb 4:4
Please let me know how you would explain Hebrews 4:4-10 in light of the fact that seventh day is clearly
and specifically mentioned
Regards
Edited by WaxitGabe
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Twinky
My answer to you, Waxit:
Jesus said, in Matt 11, the following.
And I come to him. I take his yoke, which is light and easy. I don't need to try to find my own righteousness, by following the heavy and unfulfillable requirements of the law. Those requirements are set out in detail in (is it?) Leviticus.
You can try this too, Waxit: take the yoke of Jesus upon you. Fulfil Jesus's requirements and commandments. You will find them easy, not burdensome.
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Waxit
What Jesus Christ meant here has got nothing whatsover in keeping the 7th day Sabbath>
Please note sabbath is meant for you to have complete rest (physical activity) and from the stress and work responsibilities
of the working week- what could possible be lighter than that. So sabbath is not a piece of hand cufft that you think it is
and Matt 11:28-30 has got nothing to do with sabbath. You are slapping the wrong label on the wrong scripture
Here Jesus is talking about yoke -when two oxen are yoked together- what does it mean- it means they are fitted (getting their work gear on to work)
Here it's symbolically of someone coming to Jesus with all their problem and Jesus will show them, how by taking his yoke- the problem becomes easily solved
Jesus shows them an easier way (love & forgiveness)- there is still work involved but it is solved without stress, hatred or animosity. Wiyh sabbath there is complete rest from work
Jesus shows them who He is kind, gentle, loving, peaceful and this go a long way in making the yoke light and people are in a much lighter mode
in solving their problems
If you want a more detailed explanation go here; https://www.ucg.org/united-news/that-was-easy
Again when i request for an explanation to a specific bible verse, you are being evasive- you will almost never answer my request for an explanation of the bible verse- in this case Hebrews 4. Instead of explaining the scripture as i requested, you go looking for yet another verse that "appears" to be anti 7th day sabbath"
Ok! Can you tell me what are the unfullfillable requiremens of Levitical law you are talking about?
I have told you again and again the christian biblical sabbath is not the same as the jewish sabbath which is of Judaism (man made traditions)
( the bible says in 1 John 5:3 is not burdensome but you insist that it's burdensome so who am i to believe- you or God)
Do you want a free copy of the book "Judaism- Religion of Moses or Religion of Man
While i am looking at giving you a final reply, I will in the meanwhile reply to the comments you make.
to show that to you and anyone else reading this I can explain the anti sabbath scriptures wwhile you cannot handle the
contradictory verses that says 7th day sabbath is a commandment of God. I am not doing this to boast but to show
you that I have looked into sabbath in depth- The more i look at it, the more I know i's meaning, purpose and significance
I keep telling you - the covenant that God made with Israel (physical) and the new covenant in Jesus Christ with the church (spiritual)
differ in that one is before the sacrificial death f Jesus Christ and the other is after the death of Jesus Christ on the cross.
You always have stuck on to the mindset- that sabbath is a strict code of levitical laws and i am telingl you it's not
Under the new covenant with Jesus Christ- all the animal sacifices have been done away with. It also does not include man mde traditions
All the wwwashing rituals have been done away with . For us today a clean and pure heart- when we repent our sins washed by the blood of Jesus Christ and it does the complete job
Please read Hebrews 10 for an explanation of how the form of sacrifice has changed after the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ on the cross
10 For the law having a shadow of good things ( what we are doing here is reflective of what's being done in heaven) to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
old testament- animal sacrifices new testament Jesus Christ (Lamb of God) - one sacrifice for all time
physical circumcison of males circumcion of the heart- putting away off sin
keeping of the 7th day sabbath (No indwelling of Holy spirit) keeping of the 7th day sabbath (God dwells in us via Holy Spirit)
So nothing has changed only the form in regards to the God's covenant with Israel and God's covenant with the Church
The keeping of the sabbath has not changed, will never change and it will be kept in heaven for all eternity- that's how nimportant it is
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Twinky
You're being insulting and arrogant again.
No, I'm not answering your questions any more, until you learn to assimilate that which is already written, which, despite your protestations, is an answer.
And no thanks, I don't want the free book that your current church is peddling.
I don't know anything about Jewish sabbaths, except that the Jews find ways to make life easy for themselves, rather than the severe restrictions that rabbis placed on them.
If you were referring to rules in Leviticus and other Books of the Law, these are not Jewish but addressed to all the Israelites and the vast number of hangers-on who travelled with them out of Egypt.
Judah should have observed all those Levitical laws; rabbis laid other traditions on top, known as "a hedge around the Torah." These, though perhaps originally kindly meant, ended up being severely restrictive. "Don't light fires" was one such: because a man might need light a fire to heat water to do his job, or to cause metal to melt enough to be worked, etc. But that became "don't light fires even if it's cold or to cook your meal," which is not what God intended. "Don't carry things" was another such tradition: because a man might be carrying his work tools or some necessary thing to facilitate his work. But that became, "don't carry anything on the sabbath" and so (in "recent" times), Jews sew or pin a handkerchief onto their jacket, so that it's "part of the garment" and therefore they're not "carrying it" to blow their noses, which is clearly nonsense.
You didn't answer my question: why were you posting here on Saturday mid-afternoon? That'd be "work," wouldn't it?
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Waxit
Sure- i definitely agree with you to take the yoke of Jesus (love, kindness, gentleness and humility , but it's nothing to do with keeping the sabbath
(yoke in this case is what you put on to make your task (work) a bit easier. As i explained in my earlier reply, sabbath is for rest - cease from work and rest in God
In fact keeping the sabbath is time well spent in studying and meditating on God's word and can be spent to learn about Jesus Christ and how to put on His yoke
which is much lighter to solve problems the easier way. You can go to Jesus anytime but what better way then to spend time in the word and fellowship with
God on his definite appointed day and time- Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath
The 7th day from sunset to sunset- includes everthing rest (sleep), worship and fellowship- study,meditate,pray
As for Jesus requirements, please read this and understand, they are Jesus words- you fullfill Jesus words and the love commandment
when you obey His words. Please, please Twinky, i beg you - meditate on this scripture below (ask God for clarity- if it still doesnt resonate with you
lets not pay attention to what we want but what Jesus wants
This is God's commandments and God's requirements ( God and Jesus Christ are one)
Jeremiah 7:23
But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and
ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded ( includes 7th day sabbath)
you, that it may be well unto you.
His requirements are not grievious. (why can sabbath not be any of the other 6 days-that's your commandment not God's)
You love and honour God when you discard your own commandments and cling to God's commandments
which is truth (7th day was created by God- it's valid today as the day when it was first createdw- that's why God doesnt reset)
which is love and whch benefits us. Sabbath is something that gives physical rest and spiritual rest in God and if you are going to do
something then follow it through to it's entirety the way God wants it
This is His commandments and His requirements
1 John 5:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 For this is the love of God (your favourite commandment), that we keep his commandments: and his commandments (includes 7th day sabbath) are not grievous.
If you can honesty say and prove from the bible that His commandments above in 1 John 5:3 does not include the 7th day sabbath (10 commandments)
then i will join you and your church
Regards
Waxit
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Twinky
Waxit, I don't agree at all with you about that, and I can't see anything that will convince me to. I thank you that you've offered a thought-provoking discussion - from the heart in my case, from (it often seems) the website of another church/cult in your case, though I accept that you wholly believe what you are writing. This discussion has caused me to re-examine and deepen some of my theology, but I am not going to put myself under the legalism of another cult.
I'm sure you know the old adage: "A man convinced against his will /Is of the same opinion still."
We shall just have to agree to differ - your church, differing from almost the whole of the rest of Christianity, which doesn't recognise this 7th day/Saturday stuff.
Do check out some of the other threads here. You might get to know some of us better.
WordWolf has started a new thread on differences between US English and UK English. You might think of a few examples from some of those other countries you've lived in.
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Waxit
I am sorry if i come across as insulting and arrogant Twinky- i didnt do it to intentionally to hurt you. I have also answered your question below
I was speaking the truth when i pointed out your wrong inderstanding of that particular scripture- "Take my yoke upon you"
We all make mistakes sometimes including me
and I am certainly saying I am not perfect. Mark poined out the word "sabbath" was only stated 10 times in Hebrews, I checked it out and he was right
so I told him, he was right and that i stand corrected
Many people got offended with Jesus Christ because he told them the truth
Since when is a free book called "peddling" (that shows you that the levitical(judaism) laws is not part of the christian bible
The "hedge around torah" is jewish man made regulations (which is nonsense). Guys anyone genuinely interested in this free book-"Judaism- Religion of Moses or Religion of Man "PM me and I will let you know where you can request a free copy
The orthodox jews are hypocrites who rely on their "own efforts" to make ultra ultra sure- all the commandments are being observed "100%" right down to the pin on the shirt and that is hogwash. Their whole idea of keeping the sabbath is totally screwed up in legalism and not the heart behind it
The Torah is a jewish bible - The jews dont even recognise Jesus Christ as the messiah, and so why would you want to pay attention to a jewish bible
and worse pin their man made laws on to the christian bible sabbath.
If there is a law in the book of leviticus in the bible- that makes it awkard (God did say His commandments are not grievious)- please understand all the ritual rules have been done away with, in the person of
Jesus Christ - who was the sacrificial lamb of God. The Sabbath was never done away with. It's part of the 10 commandments that will be there for all eternity
Jesus Christ who is the Lord of the Sabbth said- "I am the same, yesterday, today and forever
If you want to ignore the 7th day sabbath and you indeed valid in saying that and it is correct and ok with God- then please understand, that will also
give you the right to lie and steal. Can that happen- of course not- No liar shall enter the kingdom of God (1 John 2:4)
All right Twinky- sometimes I do miss your posts- because i am not a fan of the public forum in gsc.
Please note I will now answer your question:
Why did i email you on sabbath
No! definitely not. This is why i keep telling you and you keep ignoring me. Your levitical laws sticking on the sabbath isnt valid
when you understand God allows freedom within the parameters he has defined- sabbath- 7th day- sunset to sunset- rest from physical labour of daily acivities
By all means focus on spiritual activities- the jews with their levitical laws even accused Jesus of healing the crippled man- He called then hypocrites
healing is a spiritual activity as emailing someone telling them regarding the sabbath- did i commuicate with you regarding the share market - no
If you are saying that we sabbath keepers are "performing" work because we are emailing and tapping on some keys telling them about the sabbath
then by the same token, you can also consider putting food into your mouth as work- can you see how ridiculous it can get?
I wonder why the orthodox jews didnt write - "no feeding yourself" on sabbath" into their jewish torah- wwouldnt see any fat rabbis, would we?
On sabbath we communicate online about spiritual things- would you consider that labour as a strenuos wphysical activity
You say you keep "sabbath" on sunday, and you meet online. so obviously you have to tap a few keys- would you consider that work?
In regards to ligting a fire (cooking) considered "work" during sabbath- please go to this link here for a clear explanation:
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/bible-questions-and-answers/does-lighting-a-fire-on-the-sabbath-break-gods-law
Now that i have answered your question- please answer my question:
Why do you think that among all the 10 commandments, wwe should keep 9 commandments and ignore only the 4th commandment ( i.e 7th day sabbath keeping commandment)
Did God not tell us not to add or subtract from His Word (Laws & Commandments) included
Here is a scripture to consider when answering:
Deut 4:2
2 Ye shall not add to the word (keep any day of the week except 7th day-saturday) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish (ignore the 7th day sabbath) ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
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waysider
The book is not what's being peddled, it's the ideology it promotes.
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Waxit
It's a book that examines judaism- there is nothing to peddle
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T-Bone
Peddling or selling is to offer something in exchange for money or something else of value; it can also mean to persuade someone of the merits of something; promoting an acceptance of a belief, idea or set of ideas; to persuade someone of the value or desirability of something ( see here )
I found the book "Judaism--Revelation of Moses Or Religion of Men?" by Philip Neal on the same website I found the other books from Waxit’s “reading assignments” – and like the other books, the website allows you to read this book online - here Philip Neal's book online
After checking out some of the chapters I would say the author definitely exhibits a strong bias while examining Judaism and is unabashedly trying to sell (or persuade) readers on a number of ideas – one of which is that the author has “read properly” Acts 10 ( I referred to Acts 10 much earlier on this thread - here )– as Philip Neal states here:
“Obviously, too many assume that the apostle Peter's vision in Acts 10 represents a reversal of God's laws prohibiting unclean meats. However, nowhere in the passage is it ever suggested that God had cleansed unclean meats. Rather, this is something “read into” the section by those with a predisposition against God's laws. When the passage is read properly, it becomes obvious that Peter's vision in no way authorized a change in the laws of clean and unclean meats. In fact, Peter's vision had nothing at all to do with clean and unclean meats.” from appendix 4 of Neal's book
On the contrary, I think it’s obvious that Acts 10 involves a lot more than just putting an end to the Old Testament dietary restrictions – for in making such changes to the law, God made it possible for the church to unite both Jew and Gentile through the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ. See Acts 10 in NASB
Thus to accomplish this unity it was necessary to abolish the ceremonial laws and sacrifices that distinguished the Jews as distinct and separated from the Gentiles – as mentioned in Ephesians:
“ Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.” Ephesians 2:11-22 NASB
Back then – as today there are those who insist it’s necessary to adopt the law of Moses...one such group were Judaizers. They were "Christians who teach it is necessary to adopt Jewish customs and practices, especially those found in the Law of Moses, to be saved. The term is derived from the Koine Greek word Ἰουδαΐζειν (Ioudaizein), used once in the Greek New Testament (Galatians 2:14),when Paul publicly challenges Peter for compelling Gentile converts to Early Christianity to "judaize".This episode is known as the incident at Antioch. This term includes groups who claim the necessity of continued obedience to the Law of Moses found in the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) for gentiles.Members of such groups dispute the label because "Judaizers" is typically used as a pejorative." See Wikipedia Judaizers ....a couple of pertinent references are in Acts 15 and Galatians 2 ...
Insistence on the necessity of following the ceremonial laws and sacrifices of the Old Testament trivializes the comprehensive sacrificial work of Jesus Christ –and seems to be an effort to drive a wedge between those whom God has united – now referred to as the church.
Edited by T-Boneformatting and bunch of editing
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Waxit
Yep! we will agree to differ. I agree that most of christianity ignores the 7th day sabbath and i have stated this again and again.
It doesnt necessarily mean you guys who are anti 7day sabbath are right- even if 99% is against he 7th day sabbath commandment
it doesn't mean you are right. (Rev 12:9). So I agree to differ and I am really happy that God opened my eyes but I will respect
what others believe- you are entitled to believe what you want to believe. I just dont want to be shocked come judgement time.
If you are pretty confident and believe that Matt 7:22 doesnt apply to you and somehow you have special exemption and btw
when Jesus Christ comes back - it's not the age of grace anymore- He is coming back to judge- 1 Peter 4:17
so if all this doesnt bother you- so be it- i will leave it at that
I have one last question for you though which may or may not give you food for thought and I would be interested to know your thoughts
This is the question that i asked and you have left unanswered:
Why is it that among all the 10 commandments- most believing christian respect and obey- all the other 9 commandments
as in thout shalt not lie, thou shalt not steal...and so forth but ignore the 4th commandment to keep the 7th day Sabbath
I cannot understand how we can ignore one of God's commandments (they are all important),
so why do christians choose to ignore the specific 7th day sabbath which is clearly a part of the 10 commandments?
especially when God also says in:
Deuteronomy 4:2
2 Ye shall not add unto the word (7th day sabbath) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish (keep any of the other 6 days week for the weekly sabbath ) ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Your thoughts on this Twinky?
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Waxit
This is the very last time you will see me replying to you in gsc public forum - I dont really care what kind of comments you make from now on
Just to clarify your above comment for the last time
Promotion is the wrong word- Declaring the truth is more appropriate. I dont have any hatred that the pharisees -
if i do have hatred than i have sinned and i honestly dont have hatred but just sad that no one in gsc has responded positively to God's 7th day sabbath commeanment
I dont know where you got this idea that I am a pharisee type- not as bad as a pharisee but still a pharisee- that's absolute nonsense and you also judging me and
the worst part, judging me wronly
I think you make these type of comments because you just dont get it rearding the validity of the 7th day sabbath
- you have got your understanding of the sabbath reversed from what it is actually sayong
Do you go to the ucg link - i sent you- do go there Mark, seriously and you will then be able o answer people from the scriptures
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/sunset-to-sunset-gods-sabbath-rest/jesus-christ-and-the-sabbath
when they are ask you why 7th day sabbath is important. You wont be rubbishing it when you understand how the 7th day sabbath fits
perfectly into the plan of God and why it's very important If you visit the link, you will learn the meaning of the sabbath and why it's so important and you will stop making comments like the one above
The phrase "Sabbath is made for Man and not Man for the Sabbath is misunderstood by a lot of christians and is
a favourite excuse for anti sabbatarians because they think the Lord is saying, you dont have to keep the sabbath
I the Lord am Lor of the sabbath and i the Lord give you the authority to do what you like- Thats absolute hogwash
Why am I saying thiws? For the simple reason that God will not break His own laws. Refer to Exodus 20:8-11 on your software
look at what Paul is saying- anywhere in the bible where it says, "commandments" referring to God's commandments
not man made commandments (judaism) - it includes the 4th commandment- i.e 7th day sabbath commandment
Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (includes the 7th day sabbath commandment)
What will happen in America- if there was total lawlessness, anyone can go the bank- rob the bank and get away
with it. The police will not come after you- like this you can do anything like- lie, murder
If this is the case then there will be absolute mayhem and a total breakdown of society- so what about the universe
over which God is in control- it will fall apart if God was a lawless God and did not follow His own governing laws.
Jesus Christ as the "Lord of the Sabbath" doesnt mean He gives you the authorty to do what you like but that you follow
His example of what He is and what He created the 7thday Sabbath and the Lord of the Sabbath.
Ignoring and going against the 7th day Sabbath is going against the spiritual law of God and as a result there is a break down in
relationship with God- The 7th day sabbath is a commandment that specifically relates to relationship and fellowship with God
Yes! The pharisees hated Jesus Christ - they couldnt fault him because He was already keeping the keeping the sabbath so
they tried to muscle in on "how he was keeping the sabbath"- Mark, noe there's a very important difference between
saying "keeping the sabbath" and "how He and his disciples were keeping the sabbath"
If you read the gospels Mark, I gurantee you there iws not one single time, the pharisess confronted Jesus Christ about
whether "He kept the sabbath" but rather "How He kept the sabbath". The pharisees wanted Jesus o obey their man ade laws (judaism)
When it says sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath
You will see in Genesis that God created man first before He created the 7th day
That shows He took into account the needs of man for pphysical rest and also the need to rest in God- a special day
at the end of week to commune with God and a day devoted to God in godly acivities likes fellowship,studying, meditating on the word of God
So Sabbath was specifically made for man so how can man (dust of the earth) turn around and ignore the 7th day sabbath which was made for him
God did not make the sabbath and then tried to conform man to fit the sabbath. No, no ,no
God made man and took into account the needs of man for physical rest and for him to rest in God (spiritual rest and revitalising
example reading the word, meditation on the word of God, worship of the one true God etc
and then He created the 7th day sabbath
Can you see now how "Sabbath was made for Man and Not Man for Sabbath" and how this fits into God's plan for the well being of Man
Edited by WaxitLink to comment
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Mark Sanguinetti
Perhaps we should thank Waxit for inspiring us to do the research showing that the day of Sabbath is NOT important compared to faith in Jesus Christ. Yet Waxit wants to continually try to add his mindset to the scriptures. As one of MANY examples here on GSC doctrinal. Waxit has a long post with his comments that include accusations to someone named Mark Sanguinetti, yet Waxit does this with only one scripture quote , while again trying to get people to ignore the context of the one scripture that Waxit quotes from, while again trying to add his mindset of the 7th day Sabbath to one scripture. Here is the context of the one scripture that Waxit quotes from while again trying to add his mindset to the scripture.
Because I do not have time to write comments now regarding these scriptures because of other biblical research that I am doing with even a biblical book with articles that I am writing. I am instead simply copying from a biblical commentary pertaining to Romans 3:19-31.
And this is something that Waxit will again try to get people to ignore, while he adds his Mindset to scriptures. The day of Sabbath is not mentioned in the epistle to the Gentile Romans. Thank you again Waxit for inspiring us here on Grease Spot Cafe to do the biblical research that shows that following the Old Testament law's day of Sabbath is not important in comparison to faith in Jesus Christ.
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Twinky
Ye shall not add unto the word … BUT THEN YOU DO ADD by including the words "7TH DAY SABBATH"!!!!!!
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Twinky
Do you see how judgmental this sounds? "I agree to differ" but you're sill wrong and you're gonna be shocked come judgment time, because you think you have special exemption and I, Waxit, say that you don't.
Waxit, it may be the other way round! You think old laws apply to you and you are actually free from them. Maybe Jesus will say, "Waxit, why do you keep putting yourself into bondage? Do you like shackles, when I paid the price for you? Is what I did somehow not enough for you?"
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Twinky
Ignore? Or accept the heart of it? The heart of it is: rest, on a regular basis. And I have told you, time and again, how it is that I personally honour God and God's rest.
I did ask you why God would be so petty as to demand that rest be on one particular day only, and condemn all those who love him but honour him on a different day. You didn't answer that.
It's good that you honour God on a regular basis each week; I'm glad that you so choose. I think you're going to be awfully upset if you find that the calendar isn't as you think and you find you are sabbathing on, say, Wednesday, or Tuesday. Oops!
I do not accept your (church's) assertion that one can know what day the original "7th day" was. Nor do I think it necessary to know.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Perhaps we should congratulate Waxit for a Grease Spot Cafe record for adding a phrase of his promotion and mindset to his posts. Congratulations Waxit!
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Rocky
I'm guessing that our good friend Gabe does NOT see how judgmental it sounds.
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Twinky
That should read, "You think old laws apply to you, but you are actually free from them."
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Waxit
I think it is unfair for you to call my church/organization a cult (that is your opinion- how would you like it if I came out on public forum on gsc and
Edited by Waxitsaid- the church that you belong to is pagan and false.
A cult is where you are controlled by what the organization dictates- (contrary to the word of God)
I dont belong to any particular church nor am I controlled by church idealogies- I go by the written word of God and communing wwith God)
Cult is not where I am - far fom it- I have learnt the lessons of twi
as I am sure you have learnt as well
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