it's common for cult leaders to come up with a NEW SPECTACULAR DISCOVERY ONLY I KNOW ABOUT at least once a year to keep followers and money coming in. Michael Rood has done this for years- like clockwork, every 12 months. New video series, new pitch for money. vpw did the same - 4 crucified! No trinity was guaranteed to get attention- he even drove his motor home into town and posted the AMAZING discovery on the local church's door. Only he knew truth not tradition!?!?
many of vp's sources were New Thought (like Christian Science) Clark, Mosely, Cliffe, etc, who don't even know a personal God much less a Trinity. But I suspect Lamsa put vp over the top on this. Lamsa himself was a cult leader who, like vp, rewrote Bible verses when he felt like it.a
The sad thing was that 4 crucified was ancient news, even if true.
Nothing new here, move along.. same for 3 days and three nights, etc. etc. I would say, what's the relevance? In a Practical sense. What do you think that I should do differently, if Jesus is God or not, or if there are a 4 + 1 crucified or 2+1 = 3.. should I love God or my neighbor any differently?
The sad thing was that 4 crucified was ancient news, even if true.
Nothing new here, move along.. same for 3 days and three nights, etc. etc. I would say, what's the relevance? In a Practical sense. What do you think that I should do differently, if Jesus is God or not, or if there are a 4 + 1 crucified or 2+1 = 3.. should I love God or my neighbor any differently?
This reminds me of that old time-proven scripture:
"Tis easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than to explain 4 crucified."
this thread started out with "A couple of questions about VPW"...and here's a couple of questions vpw would suggest:
ask not what your cult-leader can do for you. ask what you can do for your cult-leader.
Edited by T-Bone were there 2 or 4 editors crucified over this post? when it comes to friends I have no words. fear is typos on the editorial page of your life.
Firstly, when did he renounce the trinity? Correct me if I'm wrong, but VPW was ordained as an Evangelical and Reformed minister. Since part of their dogma is the belief in the Augsburg Confessions, I would suspect that he believed in the trinity back then.
Secondly, did VPW ever mention the evangelist William M. Branham?
Branham was an enormously successful evangelist of the same era of VPW and Oral Roberts, and Branham's ministry had many parallels with VPW's, including a divergence from the trinity. I'd be really interested to know if VPW was influenced by him.
Hey Jim,
The various works by VP indicate a struggle with the Trinity he claimed to not have ever believed it and avoided teaching on the topic. Then later the JCNG book which imo was a differentiation tactic because people were taking his classes and going back to their churches in the 60s.
I never heard of Branham looked him up. A faith healer part of the Pentecostal movement. Died in a car wreck in 65. One God Pentecostals or Apostolics are part of that. Branham followers now labeled a cult. I doubt VP knew of the guy he had not that much power so wouldn't have been on vps radar.
Just because Branham is a cipher NOW doesn't mean he wasn't a big deal ONCE. He seems to have had his 15 minutes of fame. We've discussed him before, also.
Just because Branham is a cipher NOW doesn't mean he wasn't a big deal ONCE. He seems to have had his 15 minutes of fame. We've discussed him before, also.
Some of those are threads where he was discussed for a bit, not just in a single post.
Thx for the history links WW.
I did not mean to belittle Branham’s life or movement. In fact my impression was he was the founder of a denomination One God Apostolics or at least heavily influencing that movement.
I have attended one of their tent meetings in the past…
I did not mean to belittle Branham’s life or movement. In fact my impression was he was the founder of a denomination One God Apostolics or at least heavily influencing that movement.
I have attended one of their tent meetings in the past…
So IMO that movement may have influenced the method or worship manifestations or what they teach in the INT class regarding order in those.
Branham and related groups do the speaking in tongues along with emotional displays, dancing, cartwheels, running up and down the aisles, and bowl haircuts of all oddities. Oh and the no makeup for ladies and demure flower print dresses.
I mean for real everything of the day and time had some influence. The spiritual 40 club or whatever funded traveling speakers to come in and steal their research, practical approach, etc. Never for a dual ministry or collaborative ministry purpose, but to steal Pillais writings, or Glenn Clark’s camps idea which they are still failing at btw.
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skyrider
Hey Jim......good to "see" you again. To answer your two questions.......I have, again, searched Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, to attain this information. Yes, vpw was ordained in
skyrider
Look at this expansive work! How much of it inspired wierwille? How much of it did he plagiarize? E. Stanley Jones books.......... The Christ of the Indian Road (1925). German trans
waysider
"Fear is the sand in the machinery of life."...E.Stanley Jones Even this quote, for which Wierwille is famously remembered, originated with a source other than himself
johnj
it's common for cult leaders to come up with a NEW SPECTACULAR DISCOVERY ONLY I KNOW ABOUT at least once a year to keep followers and money coming in. Michael Rood has done this for years- like clockwork, every 12 months. New video series, new pitch for money. vpw did the same - 4 crucified! No trinity was guaranteed to get attention- he even drove his motor home into town and posted the AMAZING discovery on the local church's door. Only he knew truth not tradition!?!?
many of vp's sources were New Thought (like Christian Science) Clark, Mosely, Cliffe, etc, who don't even know a personal God much less a Trinity. But I suspect Lamsa put vp over the top on this. Lamsa himself was a cult leader who, like vp, rewrote Bible verses when he felt like it.a
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Ham
The sad thing was that 4 crucified was ancient news, even if true.
Nothing new here, move along.. same for 3 days and three nights, etc. etc. I would say, what's the relevance? In a Practical sense. What do you think that I should do differently, if Jesus is God or not, or if there are a 4 + 1 crucified or 2+1 = 3.. should I love God or my neighbor any differently?
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waysider
This reminds me of that old time-proven scripture:
"Tis easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than to explain 4 crucified."
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
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T-Bone
this thread started out with "A couple of questions about VPW"...and here's a couple of questions vpw would suggest:
ask not what your cult-leader can do for you. ask what you can do for your cult-leader.
Edited by T-Bonewere there 2 or 4 editors crucified over this post? when it comes to friends I have no words. fear is typos on the editorial page of your life.
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chockfull
Hey Jim,
The various works by VP indicate a struggle with the Trinity he claimed to not have ever believed it and avoided teaching on the topic. Then later the JCNG book which imo was a differentiation tactic because people were taking his classes and going back to their churches in the 60s.
I never heard of Branham looked him up. A faith healer part of the Pentecostal movement. Died in a car wreck in 65. One God Pentecostals or Apostolics are part of that. Branham followers now labeled a cult. I doubt VP knew of the guy he had not that much power so wouldn't have been on vps radar.
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WordWolf
Just because Branham is a cipher NOW doesn't mean he wasn't a big deal ONCE. He seems to have had his 15 minutes of fame. We've discussed him before, also.
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/15152-did-they-really-believe-it/page/2/#comment-360752
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/8171-wierwille-jonestown-totalitarian-cults/page/3/#comment-200157
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/7914-sit-rightly-divided/page/5/#comment-192854
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/5186-biblical-universalism/page/14/#comment-134550
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/5089-did-vpw-plagiarize-jcing/#comment-52991
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/371-web-page-with-all-the-facts/#comment-52466
Some of those are threads where he was discussed for a bit, not just in a single post.
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chockfull
Thx for the history links WW.
I did not mean to belittle Branham’s life or movement. In fact my impression was he was the founder of a denomination One God Apostolics or at least heavily influencing that movement.
I have attended one of their tent meetings in the past…
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chockfull
So IMO that movement may have influenced the method or worship manifestations or what they teach in the INT class regarding order in those.
Branham and related groups do the speaking in tongues along with emotional displays, dancing, cartwheels, running up and down the aisles, and bowl haircuts of all oddities. Oh and the no makeup for ladies and demure flower print dresses.
I mean for real everything of the day and time had some influence. The spiritual 40 club or whatever funded traveling speakers to come in and steal their research, practical approach, etc. Never for a dual ministry or collaborative ministry purpose, but to steal Pillais writings, or Glenn Clark’s camps idea which they are still failing at btw.
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