"I didn’t expect to finish a book about behavior feeling more hopeful, but Christakis surprised me. It’s easy to feel down reading news headlines every day about how polarized we’re becoming. Blueprint is a refreshing reminder that, when people say we’re all in this together, it’s not just a platitude—it’s evolution."
I think a lot of people either have never heard of Sociology, or don't think it's useful. The sometimes-forgotten brother of Psychology, Sociology studies groups where Psychology studies individuals. (I've done some work with both at the university level.) Sociology can break down how groups tick and what draws people to them, or what keeps people in them. Since twi was largely about group dynamics and groupthink, studying it with the lens of Sociology could be quite useful. I don't think vpw knew the names of any principles he used in manipulating and conning people, but I think he used many of them, almost ignorant of their details, but knowing enough to put them into practice.
I think a lot of people either have never heard of Sociology, or don't think it's useful. The sometimes-forgotten brother of Psychology, Sociology studies groups where Psychology studies individuals. (I've done some work with both at the university level.) Sociology can break down how groups tick and what draws people to them, or what keeps people in them. Since twi was largely about group dynamics and groupthink, studying it with the lens of Sociology could be quite useful. I don't think vpw knew the names of any principles he used in manipulating and conning people, but I think he used many of them, almost ignorant of their details, but knowing enough to put them into practice.
So, this book is probably a good idea for a read.
Wierwille may have heard of B.F. Skinner, but a good bit of what's in Christakis' book hadn't been figured out before Vic died.
Totally agree with you that twi was largely about group dynamics and groupthink. When one realizes what kind of commune activism had taken place prior to twi, it can make one wonder how we weren't able to see it all before we got involved. Alas, I'm now old enough for Medicare and it has taken me a lifetime of reading to learn about.
Reminds me of the 7 basic human needs, an expansion of Maslow's hierarchy 5 human needs. Those focus on individual where the social suite would be group focused.
In these the expanded 7 needs are from the view of systematic organization, rather than hierarchical. I haven't studied it in great detail but I assume that viewing them as a system allows for flexibility that wouldn't be as useful in a hierarchy/prioritization approach. Still - my early impression was that the move to a holistic 7 point system of human needs may reflect the times more than anything else. But then, what doesn't, he asked...?
They're:
Subsistence-safety-security
Understanding and growth
Connection(love) and leisure
Contribution and Creation
Esteem and Identity
Self-governance(Autonomy) and Freedom
Significance and purpose
Compared to:
On 12/30/2019 at 4:37 PM, Rocky said:
1. Individual identity 2. Love for partners and children 3. Friendship 4. Social networks 5. Cooperation 6. Preference for your own group 7. mild hierarchy 8. Social learning and teaching
My impression of how these two kinds of things work is that the social - group contracts we form together assumes that the most basic need of "survival" is either at stake or accomplished (or in an incremental stage) - put another way, survival is always the box we're checking at a perception level - if it's just being in a meeting with people that we don't know well, and that awkwardness of being unsure how to act or what to say, or not knowing if someone we care deeply about cares about us in a reciprocal way - there's a theme of survival there, albeit not physical life for death but of the emotional layered kinds. We can not be worried about it but all priorities would always re prioritize to recognize the fundamental requirement of survival.
If it's at stake then each of the social suite would serve the fundamentals - so friendship establishment would mean sharing food or helping gather firewood for a shared fire, etc. "Cooperation" would serve the greater need of the group surviving, which really means that each individual survives.
So - self interest drives our social structures, by necessity.
For conversation sake I might propose therefore that if that's the case and in regards to The Way Inc. there was a strong survival element to it that led the individual to see failure or success as something that was always in immediate play. We would read in the Bible that we "were" born again and that we "are" Sons of God and that our "standing" was one of assurance and confidence
But our state could always be rocky, "in or out of fellowship", our"walk" wasn't really treated by VPW in the day to day business of the Way as one of stable assurance, EVERYthing was always one hit away from being "off the Word" and "of the Adversary"........in reality the daily success and survival of the individual was always in danger, on a razor thin path of good/bad, evil/righteousness.
"No friends when it comes to the Word" could really mean "you swim in a tank of sharks and some of them are your co workers"...............
Just some random thoughts here, will kinda gestate this. Thanks!
Edited by socks Someone harmin' me? That won't be done, I stand protected by the laws of fun.
Reminds me of the 7 basic human needs, an expansion of Maslow's hierarchy 5 human needs. Those focus on individual where the social suite would be group focused.
In these the expanded 7 needs are from the view of systematic organization, rather than hierarchical. I haven't studied it in great detail but I assume that viewing them as a system allows for flexibility that wouldn't be as useful in a hierarchy/prioritization approach. Still - my early impression was that the move to a holistic 7 point system of human needs may reflect the times more than anything else. But then, what doesn't, he asked...?
They're:
Subsistence-safety-security
Understanding and growth
Connection(love) and leisure
Contribution and Creation
Esteem and Identity
Self-governance(Autonomy) and Freedom
Significance and purpose
Compared to:
My impression of how these two kinds of things work is that the social - group contracts we form together assumes that the most basic need of "survival" is either at stake or accomplished (or in an incremental stage) - put another way, survival is always the box we're checking at a perception level - if it's just being in a meeting with people that we don't know well, and that awkwardness of being unsure how to act or what to say, or not knowing if someone we care deeply about cares about us in a reciprocal way - there's a theme of survival there, albeit not physical life for death but of the emotional layered kinds. We can not be worried about it but all priorities would always re prioritize to recognize the fundamental requirement of survival.
If it's at stake then each of the social suite would serve the fundamentals - so friendship establishment would mean sharing food or helping gather firewood for a shared fire, etc. "Cooperation" would serve the greater need of the group surviving, which really means that each individual survives.
So - self interest drives our social structures, by necessity.
For conversation sake I might propose therefore that if that's the case and in regards to The Way Inc. there was a strong survival element to it that led the individual to see failure or success as something that was always in immediate play. We would read in the Bible that we "were" born again and that we "are" Sons of God and that our "standing" was one of assurance and confidence
But our state could always be rocky, "in or out of fellowship", our"walk" wasn't really treated by VPW in the day to day business of the Way as one of stable assurance, EVERYthing was always one hit away from being "off the Word" and "of the Adversary"........in reality the daily success and survival of the individual was always in danger, on a razor thin path of good/bad, evil/righteousness.
"No friends when it comes to the Word" could really mean "you swim in a tank of sharks and some of them are your co workers"...............
Just some random thoughts here, will kinda gestate this. Thanks!
Ruminate on! Or gestate or gesticulate, whatever suits your fancy.
I believe you're on the right track.
Christakis' book is more about how societies form without necessarily any conscious intent. And yes, Maslov's hierarchy does seem to correlate closely with the Social Suite as articulated in Blueprint.
But you nailed a couple of key sociological issues we lived through in our time in Wierwille's society/subculture.
Consciously or not, VPW (and every other cult leader, because in this regard twi was far from unique) established a method for giving people a sense of belonging and then controlling their behavior (to a degree) based on threat to withdraw that sense of belonging.
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Rocky
FWIW, Bill Gates (THAT Bill Gates) reviewed Blueprint on Goodreads.com
He closed his review with this paragraph:
"I didn’t expect to finish a book about behavior feeling more hopeful, but Christakis surprised me. It’s easy to feel down reading news headlines every day about how polarized we’re becoming. Blueprint is a refreshing reminder that, when people say we’re all in this together, it’s not just a platitude—it’s evolution."
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I think a lot of people either have never heard of Sociology, or don't think it's useful. The sometimes-forgotten brother of Psychology, Sociology studies groups where Psychology studies individuals. (I've done some work with both at the university level.) Sociology can break down how groups tick and what draws people to them, or what keeps people in them. Since twi was largely about group dynamics and groupthink, studying it with the lens of Sociology could be quite useful. I don't think vpw knew the names of any principles he used in manipulating and conning people, but I think he used many of them, almost ignorant of their details, but knowing enough to put them into practice.
So, this book is probably a good idea for a read.
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Rocky
Wierwille may have heard of B.F. Skinner, but a good bit of what's in Christakis' book hadn't been figured out before Vic died.
Totally agree with you that twi was largely about group dynamics and groupthink. When one realizes what kind of commune activism had taken place prior to twi, it can make one wonder how we weren't able to see it all before we got involved. Alas, I'm now old enough for Medicare and it has taken me a lifetime of reading to learn about.
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socks
Reminds me of the 7 basic human needs, an expansion of Maslow's hierarchy 5 human needs. Those focus on individual where the social suite would be group focused.
In these the expanded 7 needs are from the view of systematic organization, rather than hierarchical. I haven't studied it in great detail but I assume that viewing them as a system allows for flexibility that wouldn't be as useful in a hierarchy/prioritization approach. Still - my early impression was that the move to a holistic 7 point system of human needs may reflect the times more than anything else. But then, what doesn't, he asked...?
They're:
Subsistence-safety-security
Understanding and growth
Connection(love) and leisure
Contribution and Creation
Esteem and Identity
Self-governance(Autonomy) and Freedom
Significance and purpose
Compared to:
My impression of how these two kinds of things work is that the social - group contracts we form together assumes that the most basic need of "survival" is either at stake or accomplished (or in an incremental stage) - put another way, survival is always the box we're checking at a perception level - if it's just being in a meeting with people that we don't know well, and that awkwardness of being unsure how to act or what to say, or not knowing if someone we care deeply about cares about us in a reciprocal way - there's a theme of survival there, albeit not physical life for death but of the emotional layered kinds. We can not be worried about it but all priorities would always re prioritize to recognize the fundamental requirement of survival.
If it's at stake then each of the social suite would serve the fundamentals - so friendship establishment would mean sharing food or helping gather firewood for a shared fire, etc. "Cooperation" would serve the greater need of the group surviving, which really means that each individual survives.
So - self interest drives our social structures, by necessity.
For conversation sake I might propose therefore that if that's the case and in regards to The Way Inc. there was a strong survival element to it that led the individual to see failure or success as something that was always in immediate play. We would read in the Bible that we "were" born again and that we "are" Sons of God and that our "standing" was one of assurance and confidence
But our state could always be rocky, "in or out of fellowship", our"walk" wasn't really treated by VPW in the day to day business of the Way as one of stable assurance, EVERYthing was always one hit away from being "off the Word" and "of the Adversary"........in reality the daily success and survival of the individual was always in danger, on a razor thin path of good/bad, evil/righteousness.
"No friends when it comes to the Word" could really mean "you swim in a tank of sharks and some of them are your co workers"...............
Just some random thoughts here, will kinda gestate this. Thanks!
Edited by socksSomeone harmin' me? That won't be done, I stand protected by the laws of fun.
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Rocky
Ruminate on! Or gestate or gesticulate, whatever suits your fancy.
I believe you're on the right track.
Christakis' book is more about how societies form without necessarily any conscious intent. And yes, Maslov's hierarchy does seem to correlate closely with the Social Suite as articulated in Blueprint.
But you nailed a couple of key sociological issues we lived through in our time in Wierwille's society/subculture.
Consciously or not, VPW (and every other cult leader, because in this regard twi was far from unique) established a method for giving people a sense of belonging and then controlling their behavior (to a degree) based on threat to withdraw that sense of belonging.
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