I still have it, it was so wild. VP blamed the Jim Jones Kool-aid cult-suicide on the CIA predominently because they had planes "ready" in Florida.
This was probably my first red-flag...don't ask me why I stayed...maybe because I was only 20 then? and VERY impressionable still!"
"He somehow thought that because the planes were gassed and ready to leave FLorida...and coincidently had the 400 hundred body bags neccessary to handle this catastrophe, all this general readiness (by military standards) indicated they had set it up and controlled it...to see if people would really follow to that extent. "
igotout:
"Washington, I seem to remember that tape too. I was in Emporia at the time. I distinctly remember him saying that one of the "clues" that it was the government was that all the bodies were lined up side by side in a rather orderly fashion. He said that if they had really taken poison they would have convulsed and it would have been a more chaotic scene. He said the reason the government did this was becasue ultimately they were out to destroy TWI by creating the whole cult attention thing by causing Jonestown.
He definitely fell for conspiracy theories. But I think he was fed those theories by men such as CG and others who were just as paranoid. And of course LCM believed in all that stuff too. (Oklahoma City bombing was carried out by the government, McVeigh was a pawn in the game)
A friend of mine (who was in TWI at the peak of when the theories were being talked about) still believes in all that crap. It is embarrasing to hear him talk about it. I usually just change the subject when he gets started on the Jewish Defamation League or the secret meetings that take place each year with the Bilderbergers and Bill Gates, and or some BS like that. He has a couple of screws loose.
Whe Waydale first started making waves my friend thought PA was a pawn of some "bigger players" who were out to destroy LCM and TWI and ultimately God's Word. After all, how could one man do this without funding, etc.?"
shazdancer:
"Yeah, I absolutely remember that tape, the title even rang a bell. Like igotout, I recall the "proof" about the victims being found in neat rows. If I recall correctly, there was a Military WOW involved in the recovery group that reported what he saw to VPW. (Even then, I wondered if that might have been a breach of security, as an investigation must have still been in progress.)
I think that tape was an early "ooh, we are sooo spiritual" moment for me. At the time, I bought it hook, line, and sinker. After I left TWI, I realized that VP could be wrong. These days, I see it as a not-so-subtle message from the Victimizer: You can trust your local cult leader -- it's the government you should watch out for! With deprogramming coming into fashion, his strategy was understandable.
When the Waco cult thing happened, I yelled "don't do it!" at the car radio when I heard that the feds had decided to wage an assault on the compound of that Armageddon-fearing group. I knew that those people would take it as the sign that everything their leader had told them was true. I knew it in my bones, because of the pervasive distrust of government I had lived with under TWI."
Sunesis:
"He probably got that tape, like all his other "secret" info tapes from the Liberty Lobby, of which he was a member.
For those of you who don't know, the Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington, D.C. for all the white supremist groups. That's where all his stuff on the illuminati, CFR, etc. came from. They have/had a magazine called the spotlight.
For all you 7th corps, remember when we got our copies of the "secret constitution"? I still have mine. In the back is an order form for us to subscribe to the spotlight if we wanted more info. These are the guys who see conspiracy theories in everything the government does. Their political party is called the Populist party.
VP would call their hotline to hear the latest. If was after listening to this stuff, that he would call a meeting, like when the commies were about to take over in the '70s and it was only our prayers that stopped it. Anyone remember that meeting at H.Q. - the whole malpack head for the hills thing, that was Liberty Lobby.
Since he didn't tell where he was getting his info from, everyone thought he was walking with God and getting "heavy revy." We was scammed!"
Johnny Jump Up:
"In 1984 I had a guy in my branch who served in the Airforce during the body pick up from Jonestown.
He discribed what the poisen did to the bodies and how they were found. He was one of the first on the sceen and He totaly contradicted what V.P. told us. I asked about missle silos and covert ops and black bag stuff.
He said no it was exactly as was reported in the press - a cult leader led his people from california to Jonestown and killed them with purple kool-aid.
Being that he was a new believer I didn't tell him the source of my information but his info added to my growing list of reasons to leave the way."
Microbe:
"I remember him telling the Corps about the times he would sit in a chair in his "room" for hours and hours, under such incredible stress that all he could do was hang on until it was clear that Michael had won that particular battle. It required his total concentration and nothing helped. People (his wife etc) had to just leave him alone in the dark for extended periods of time. He described it as something like mental torture. He stood in the GAP! He never mentioned Jesus Christ as far as I remember. At the time it sounded to me (not a doctor - ok) like the man was suffering anxiety attacks. He also said he had trouble sleeping and was seeking medical attention. His MD, a believer, of course dismissed this and calmed his concerns about mental stress. Of course he was sound minded-he just had to save the world!"
"I remember him telling the Corps about the times he would sit in a chair in his "room" for hours and hours, under such incredible stress that all he could do was hang on until it was clear that Michael had won that particular battle. It required his total concentration and nothing helped. People (his wife etc) had to just leave him alone in the dark for extended periods of time. He described it as something like mental torture. He stood in the GAP! He never mentioned Jesus Christ as far as I remember. At the time it sounded to me (not a doctor - ok) like the man was suffering anxiety attacks. He also said he had trouble sleeping and was seeking medical attention. His MD, a believer, of course dismissed this and calmed his concerns about mental stress. Of course he was sound minded-he just had to save the world!"
"You see, kids, there was a time when the only thing that stood between the World's very existence and its total annihilation was my power of believing and an undying commitment to stand in the gap."
"But, Grandpa, I thought you said you were a plumber."
"Oh my, where does the time go? Do be a good sport and hand me the TV remote. I don't want to miss Jeopardy!."
"You see, kids, there was a time when the only thing that stood between the World's very existence and its total annihilation was my power of believing and an undying commitment to stand in the gap."
"But, Grandpa, I thought you said you were a plumber."
"Oh my, where does the time go? Do be a good sport and hand me the TV remote. I don't want to miss Jeopardy!."
Is this something vic said? It sounds like it easily could be.
I still have it, it was so wild. VP blamed the Jim Jones Kool-aid cult-suicide on the CIA predominently because they had planes "ready" in Florida.
This was probably my first red-flag...don't ask me why I stayed...maybe because I was only 20 then? and VERY impressionable still!"
"He somehow thought that because the planes were gassed and ready to leave FLorida...and coincidently had the 400 hundred body bags neccessary to handle this catastrophe, all this general readiness (by military standards) indicated they had set it up and controlled it...to see if people would really follow to that extent. "
igotout:
"Washington, I seem to remember that tape too. I was in Emporia at the time. I distinctly remember him saying that one of the "clues" that it was the government was that all the bodies were lined up side by side in a rather orderly fashion. He said that if they had really taken poison they would have convulsed and it would have been a more chaotic scene. He said the reason the government did this was becasue ultimately they were out to destroy TWI by creating the whole cult attention thing by causing Jonestown.
He definitely fell for conspiracy theories. But I think he was fed those theories by men such as CG and others who were just as paranoid. And of course LCM believed in all that stuff too. (Oklahoma City bombing was carried out by the government, McVeigh was a pawn in the game)
A friend of mine (who was in TWI at the peak of when the theories were being talked about) still believes in all that crap. It is embarrasing to hear him talk about it. I usually just change the subject when he gets started on the Jewish Defamation League or the secret meetings that take place each year with the Bilderbergers and Bill Gates, and or some BS like that. He has a couple of screws loose.
Whe Waydale first started making waves my friend thought PA was a pawn of some "bigger players" who were out to destroy LCM and TWI and ultimately God's Word. After all, how could one man do this without funding, etc.?"
shazdancer:
"Yeah, I absolutely remember that tape, the title even rang a bell. Like igotout, I recall the "proof" about the victims being found in neat rows. If I recall correctly, there was a Military WOW involved in the recovery group that reported what he saw to VPW. (Even then, I wondered if that might have been a breach of security, as an investigation must have still been in progress.)
I think that tape was an early "ooh, we are sooo spiritual" moment for me. At the time, I bought it hook, line, and sinker. After I left TWI, I realized that VP could be wrong. These days, I see it as a not-so-subtle message from the Victimizer: You can trust your local cult leader -- it's the government you should watch out for! With deprogramming coming into fashion, his strategy was understandable.
When the Waco cult thing happened, I yelled "don't do it!" at the car radio when I heard that the feds had decided to wage an assault on the compound of that Armageddon-fearing group. I knew that those people would take it as the sign that everything their leader had told them was true. I knew it in my bones, because of the pervasive distrust of government I had lived with under TWI."
Sunesis:
"He probably got that tape, like all his other "secret" info tapes from the Liberty Lobby, of which he was a member.
For those of you who don't know, the Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington, D.C. for all the white supremist groups. That's where all his stuff on the illuminati, CFR, etc. came from. They have/had a magazine called the spotlight.
For all you 7th corps, remember when we got our copies of the "secret constitution"? I still have mine. In the back is an order form for us to subscribe to the spotlight if we wanted more info. These are the guys who see conspiracy theories in everything the government does. Their political party is called the Populist party.
VP would call their hotline to hear the latest. If was after listening to this stuff, that he would call a meeting, like when the commies were about to take over in the '70s and it was only our prayers that stopped it. Anyone remember that meeting at H.Q. - the whole malpack head for the hills thing, that was Liberty Lobby.
Since he didn't tell where he was getting his info from, everyone thought he was walking with God and getting "heavy revy." We was scammed!"
Johnny Jump Up:
"In 1984 I had a guy in my branch who served in the Airforce during the body pick up from Jonestown.
He discribed what the poisen did to the bodies and how they were found. He was one of the first on the sceen and He totaly contradicted what V.P. told us. I asked about missle silos and covert ops and black bag stuff.
He said no it was exactly as was reported in the press - a cult leader led his people from california to Jonestown and killed them with purple kool-aid.
Being that he was a new believer I didn't tell him the source of my information but his info added to my growing list of reasons to leave the way."
Microbe:
"I remember him telling the Corps about the times he would sit in a chair in his "room" for hours and hours, under such incredible stress that all he could do was hang on until it was clear that Michael had won that particular battle. It required his total concentration and nothing helped. People (his wife etc) had to just leave him alone in the dark for extended periods of time. He described it as something like mental torture. He stood in the GAP! He never mentioned Jesus Christ as far as I remember. At the time it sounded to me (not a doctor - ok) like the man was suffering anxiety attacks. He also said he had trouble sleeping and was seeking medical attention. His MD, a believer, of course dismissed this and calmed his concerns about mental stress. Of course he was sound minded-he just had to save the world!"
WordWolf, thanks for pulling those quotes together.
I remember when the Current Psychological Hoax Sunday Night Teaching Tape came out. The anxious concern in our Twig was palpable – all of us bought into wierwille’s line of bull$hit on what he said really happened in Jonestown. Like a magician using sleight-of-hand to perform tricks – wierwille used a red herring to unscrupulously influence what we thought of the Jonestown massacre.
red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important question. It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences toward a false conclusion. A red herring may be used intentionally, as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies (e.g., in politics), or may be used in argumentation inadvertently.
The term was popularized in 1807 by English polemicist William Cobbett, who told a story of having used a strong-smelling smoked fish to divert and distract hounds from chasing a rabbit.
Sunday, I had listened to a teaching by David Jeremiah. One of the illustrations he used was about a lighthouse being built in the wrong location – and all the problems that caused…While I was reading this thread what came to mind was the lighthouse but as an example of how wierwille mislead us.
Some details of the mislocated lighthouse are as follows:
Controversy arose right from the early stages of construction–reports suggested that the angle of the light and the actual building site were not in accordance with the plans. But despite everything, the lighthouse was erected and finalized on October 1, 1860. When the light was installed it became apparent that the ships approaching Jervis Bay from the north side, where there are a number of offshore reefs, could not see the light beacon, and those from the southern approach had a limited view of the light.
The Pilots Board eventually made an investigation and what they found was shocking: the map that was used to select the site had been drawn incorrectly. It was even suspected that the lighthouse was deliberately constructed closer to the quarry than it should have been. This may have made life easier for the contractors but it was an error that cost lives.
“…the original map and marking of the proposed lighthouse location were so inaccurate that later there were doubts as to whether the light had been erected on the selected site,” writes Lighthouses of Australia Inc.
Upon inspection, it was discovered that Cape St. George lighthouse was built 2.5 miles north of where the it was supposed to have been. The New South Wales Government was notified and a committee was chosen to look deeper into this matter.
The committee found that the location was chosen without inspecting the site and solely relying on maps of dubious character. But nonetheless the lighthouse remained and as a direct result, from 1864 to 1893, twenty-three ships were wrecked on the coast near Jervis Bay. The lighthouse was finally replaced in 1899 by Point Perpendicular Light, which was erected on the southern tip of the Beecroft Peninsula headland.
This location proved to be perfect and the new lighthouse was used for years. The light from the Cape St. George lighthouse was removed and installed in Crookhaven Heads Light, a lighthouse that was erected in 1904 north of the town of Culburra; the Crookhaven Heads Light today stands abandoned and is a favorite target for vandals.
Once the new Point Perpendicular Light was put to use, it became clear that having two lighthouses standing in the same vicinity is confusing, especially during daylight. Having no real use for the Cape St George Lighthouse, it was handed over to the Royal Australian Navy. They decided to use this decommissioned lighthouse as a target during military drills.
Thanks for taking the time to read the lighthouse excerpts. I thought it could also be a vivid illustration of dangerous cult-leaders like Jim Jones and victor paul wierwille – who gave misdirection from their skewed vantage point – which led to a lot of lives being wrecked.
Edited by T-Bone the current editorial hoax: there are no typos here
Is this something vic said? It sounds like it easily could be.
What is the gap?
Quote
I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found no one. (Ezekiel 22:30 NIV)
Martindale did a lot of "standing in the gap," cuz we wuz so weak in believing. Had to protect the household from the adversary, doncha know.
I hate the expression. When they were trying to get rid of me, or cow me into some sort of doormat state, all the leadership picked on me - for the mistakes my man had made. I always seemed to be in trouble and had the Country Coordinator, and IO, and various others demeaning and belittling me over a period of about 6 months. Honestly, I was so confused, because there was nothing I'd done wrong (except decline the CC's sexual advances). (There, I've said it now. Y'all know.) Anyhow, there was one day when my fiance and I had a row about my incompetence and he started yelling at me that he was the only one "standing in the gap" for me. Him! He was the one that did stupid things and I stopped him making some bad mistakes. And he was the only one standing in the gap between me and "the adversary."
Well, if you take "the adversary" to mean the BoT, the International Outreach coordinator at HQ, and my country coordinator - maybe the fiance was right. But dead wrong at the same time. He was too in thrall to them all, and others, to really stand up for me and tell them to pi$$ off. Or to 'fess up to his own mistakes.
Thanks, Rocky. So, Victor was standing alone, righteous before Yahweh, to save Israel from destruction from Yahweh? Was this about protecting TWI from Yahweh's wrath? Sorry. There's probably some context to microbe's post that I'm missing.
And the bit about waiting for Michael to win a particular battle? I need some help unpacking this, please.
Edited by Nathan_Jr Snowball Pete is wearing Maggie's gloves.
Martindale did a lot of "standing in the gap," cuz we wuz so weak in believing. Had to protect the household from the adversary, doncha know.
I hate the expression. When they were trying to get rid of me, or cow me into some sort of doormat state, all the leadership picked on me - for the mistakes my man had made. I always seemed to be in trouble and had the Country Coordinator, and IO, and various others demeaning and belittling me over a period of about 6 months. Honestly, I was so confused, because there was nothing I'd done wrong (except decline the CC's sexual advances). (There, I've said it now. Y'all know.) Anyhow, there was one day when my fiance and I had a row about my incompetence and he started yelling at me that he was the only one "standing in the gap" for me. Him! He was the one that did stupid things and I stopped him making some bad mistakes. And he was the only one standing in the gap between me and "the adversary."
Well, if you take "the adversary" to mean the BoT, the International Outreach coordinator at HQ, and my country coordinator - maybe the fiance was right. But dead wrong at the same time. He was too in thrall to them all, and others, to really stand up for me and tell them to pi$$ off. Or to 'fess up to his own mistakes.
Thanks, Twinky. This is all so F'd up. A form of gaslighting. "I'm the only one who can protect you, and you sure do need protecting!"
Sorry to get textually technical -- I only just now did a quick read of Ezekiel 22, so I may need to go back and read it more carefully, but wasn't the prophet talking about what the LORD had said - the LORD was looking for one man to stand in the gap or else the LORD himself would destroy the land?
VPW was connected to Liberty Lobby. He got conspiracy information from them and passed it off to us, leading us to believe he had gotten the information by revelation. One of these theories involved the USSR taking over the USA. (mid 1970s) If the USA fell to Communism, the Word would be lost again because only TWI had the ability to rightly divide it. We had lots of prayer vigils and kept the situation high on our lift lists. There's a WHOLE lot more to the story, but, in summary, our believing and SIT was all that saved America. We were helping VPW to stand in the gap.
VPW was connected to Liberty Lobby. He got conspiracy information from them and passed it off to us, leading us to believe he had gotten the information by revelation. One of these theories involved the USSR taking over the USA. (mid 1970s) If the USA fell to Communism, the Word would be lost again because only TWI had the ability to rightly divide it. We had lots of prayer vigils and kept the situation high on our lift lists. There's a WHOLE lot more to the story, but, in summary, our believing and SIT was all that saved America. We were helping VPW to stand in the gap.
Dat's Riiiiight.
I've read this account here before. It's one of my favorite stories because it's so absurdly hilarious. It easily could have been a premise for a sketch on Mr. Show. Some of the funniest bull$hit I've heard anywhere. (It's up there with the music coordinator and T7TMOG.) There are people out there who still believe this.
Yes, that was vpw himself who made that claim. Whenever the number of eyewitnesses approached zero, vpw did fantastic things. What a shame we never had any witnessed to him doing amazing healings and so on.
Thanks, Rocky. So, Victor was standing alone, righteous before Yahweh, to save Israel from destruction from Yahweh? Was this about protecting TWI from Yahweh's wrath? Sorry. There's probably some context to microbe's post that I'm missing.
And the bit about waiting for Michael to win a particular battle? I need some help unpacking this, please.
Yes, vpw standing alone, righteous before YHWH. No, not about saving Israel, vpw was of German ancestry and bashed Israel quite a bit. vpw was saving the entire planted from destruction by "the adversary", with only his own believing plugging the holes. So, he was supposedly sitting alone and unmoving. After a while, he'd announce that that time was vpw fighting for the planet, with only Michael the Archangel backing him up. Of course, nobody saw him doing anything other than drinking Drambuie alone and then announcing he'd been in a Deep Spiritual Conflict. I think the only thing you really missed was exactly how full of baloney vpw was. There were lots of little stories- propagated by vpw- about how he/vpw was doing Super Spiritual Stuff all the time, hearing directly from God Almighty and praying effectively for the entire planet.
Well, if you take "the adversary" to mean the BoT, the International Outreach coordinator at HQ, and my country coordinator - maybe the fiance was right. But dead wrong at the same time. He was too in thrall to them all, and others, to really stand up for me and tell them to pi$$ off. Or to 'fess up to his own mistakes.
So sorry you had to endure that abuse. So glad it's quite far behind you now. You (and the rest of us, thankfully) are a survivor!
Thanks, Twinky. This is all so F'd up. A form of gaslighting. "I'm the only one who can protect you, and you sure do need protecting!"
Sorry to get textually technical -- I only just now did a quick read of Ezekiel 22, so I may need to go back and read it more carefully, but wasn't the prophet talking about what the LORD had said - the LORD was looking for one man to stand in the gap or else the LORD himself would destroy the land?
Thanks, Nathan. Gaslighting. Yes. Yes, now I can see it as that. Perceptive of you.
"Stand in the gap" also occurs in Ezek 13. Interesting when you read both passages. A lot, in both, is said about false prophets, those claiming to speak for the Lord - out of their own imaginations, as Ezek 13 says. These are the ones who build flimsy coverings over the gaps, and the repairs were unable to withstand anything. Rather like, don't you think, certain theology, including but not limited to, an Ohio cornfield. And also, to bring this back towards topic, the theology of those in another field.
Thanks, Nathan. Gaslighting. Yes. Yes, now I can see it as that. Perceptive of you.
"Stand in the gap" also occurs in Ezek 13. Interesting when you read both passages. A lot, in both, is said about false prophets, those claiming to speak for the Lord - out of their own imaginations, as Ezek 13 says. These are the ones who build flimsy coverings over the gaps, and the repairs were unable to withstand anything. Rather like, don't you think, certain theology, including but not limited to, an Ohio cornfield. And also, to bring this back towards topic, the theology of those in another field.
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WordWolf
washingtonweather:
"Does any one remember this tape?
I still have it, it was so wild. VP blamed the Jim Jones Kool-aid cult-suicide on the CIA predominently because they had planes "ready" in Florida.
This was probably my first red-flag...don't ask me why I stayed...maybe because I was only 20 then? and VERY impressionable still!"
"He somehow thought that because the planes were gassed and ready to leave FLorida...and coincidently had the 400 hundred body bags neccessary to handle this catastrophe, all this general readiness (by military standards) indicated they had set it up and controlled it...to see if people would really follow to that extent. "
igotout:
"Washington, I seem to remember that tape too. I was in Emporia at the time. I distinctly remember him saying that one of the "clues" that it was the government was that all the bodies were lined up side by side in a rather orderly fashion. He said that if they had really taken poison they would have convulsed and it would have been a more chaotic scene. He said the reason the government did this was becasue ultimately they were out to destroy TWI by creating the whole cult attention thing by causing Jonestown.
He definitely fell for conspiracy theories. But I think he was fed those theories by men such as CG and others who were just as paranoid. And of course LCM believed in all that stuff too. (Oklahoma City bombing was carried out by the government, McVeigh was a pawn in the game)
A friend of mine (who was in TWI at the peak of when the theories were being talked about) still believes in all that crap. It is embarrasing to hear him talk about it. I usually just change the subject when he gets started on the Jewish Defamation League or the secret meetings that take place each year with the Bilderbergers and Bill Gates, and or some BS like that. He has a couple of screws loose.
Whe Waydale first started making waves my friend thought PA was a pawn of some "bigger players" who were out to destroy LCM and TWI and ultimately God's Word. After all, how could one man do this without funding, etc.?"
shazdancer:
"Yeah, I absolutely remember that tape, the title even rang a bell. Like igotout, I recall the "proof" about the victims being found in neat rows. If I recall correctly, there was a Military WOW involved in the recovery group that reported what he saw to VPW. (Even then, I wondered if that might have been a breach of security, as an investigation must have still been in progress.)
I think that tape was an early "ooh, we are sooo spiritual" moment for me. At the time, I bought it hook, line, and sinker. After I left TWI, I realized that VP could be wrong. These days, I see it as a not-so-subtle message from the Victimizer: You can trust your local cult leader -- it's the government you should watch out for! With deprogramming coming into fashion, his strategy was understandable.
When the Waco cult thing happened, I yelled "don't do it!" at the car radio when I heard that the feds had decided to wage an assault on the compound of that Armageddon-fearing group. I knew that those people would take it as the sign that everything their leader had told them was true. I knew it in my bones, because of the pervasive distrust of government I had lived with under TWI."
Sunesis:
"He probably got that tape, like all his other "secret" info tapes from the Liberty Lobby, of which he was a member.
For those of you who don't know, the Liberty Lobby is a front in Washington, D.C. for all the white supremist groups. That's where all his stuff on the illuminati, CFR, etc. came from. They have/had a magazine called the spotlight.
For all you 7th corps, remember when we got our copies of the "secret constitution"? I still have mine. In the back is an order form for us to subscribe to the spotlight if we wanted more info. These are the guys who see conspiracy theories in everything the government does. Their political party is called the Populist party.
VP would call their hotline to hear the latest. If was after listening to this stuff, that he would call a meeting, like when the commies were about to take over in the '70s and it was only our prayers that stopped it. Anyone remember that meeting at H.Q. - the whole malpack head for the hills thing, that was Liberty Lobby.
Since he didn't tell where he was getting his info from, everyone thought he was walking with God and getting "heavy revy." We was scammed!"
Johnny Jump Up:
"In 1984 I had a guy in my branch who served in the Airforce during the body pick up from Jonestown.
He discribed what the poisen did to the bodies and how they were found. He was one of the first on the sceen and He totaly contradicted what V.P. told us. I asked about missle silos and covert ops and black bag stuff.
He said no it was exactly as was reported in the press - a cult leader led his people from california to Jonestown and killed them with purple kool-aid.
Being that he was a new believer I didn't tell him the source of my information but his info added to my growing list of reasons to leave the way."
Microbe:
"I remember him telling the Corps about the times he would sit in a chair in his "room" for hours and hours, under such incredible stress that all he could do was hang on until it was clear that Michael had won that particular battle. It required his total concentration and nothing helped. People (his wife etc) had to just leave him alone in the dark for extended periods of time. He described it as something like mental torture. He stood in the GAP! He never mentioned Jesus Christ as far as I remember. At the time it sounded to me (not a doctor - ok) like the man was suffering anxiety attacks. He also said he had trouble sleeping and was seeking medical attention. His MD, a believer, of course dismissed this and calmed his concerns about mental stress. Of course he was sound minded-he just had to save the world!"
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Nathan_Jr
Damn, you're good WordWolf! Thanks.
The He/Him referred to by Micobe is victor??
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waysider
"You see, kids, there was a time when the only thing that stood between the World's very existence and its total annihilation was my power of believing and an undying commitment to stand in the gap."
"But, Grandpa, I thought you said you were a plumber."
"Oh my, where does the time go? Do be a good sport and hand me the TV remote. I don't want to miss Jeopardy!."
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Nathan_Jr
Is this something vic said? It sounds like it easily could be.
What is the gap?
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T-Bone
WordWolf, thanks for pulling those quotes together.
I remember when the Current Psychological Hoax Sunday Night Teaching Tape came out. The anxious concern in our Twig was palpable – all of us bought into wierwille’s line of bull$hit on what he said really happened in Jonestown. Like a magician using sleight-of-hand to perform tricks – wierwille used a red herring to unscrupulously influence what we thought of the Jonestown massacre.
red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important question. It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences toward a false conclusion. A red herring may be used intentionally, as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies (e.g., in politics), or may be used in argumentation inadvertently.
The term was popularized in 1807 by English polemicist William Cobbett, who told a story of having used a strong-smelling smoked fish to divert and distract hounds from chasing a rabbit.
From Wikipedia – red herring
~ ~ ~ ~
Sunday, I had listened to a teaching by David Jeremiah. One of the illustrations he used was about a lighthouse being built in the wrong location – and all the problems that caused…While I was reading this thread what came to mind was the lighthouse but as an example of how wierwille mislead us.
Some details of the mislocated lighthouse are as follows:
Controversy arose right from the early stages of construction–reports suggested that the angle of the light and the actual building site were not in accordance with the plans. But despite everything, the lighthouse was erected and finalized on October 1, 1860. When the light was installed it became apparent that the ships approaching Jervis Bay from the north side, where there are a number of offshore reefs, could not see the light beacon, and those from the southern approach had a limited view of the light.
The Pilots Board eventually made an investigation and what they found was shocking: the map that was used to select the site had been drawn incorrectly. It was even suspected that the lighthouse was deliberately constructed closer to the quarry than it should have been. This may have made life easier for the contractors but it was an error that cost lives.
“…the original map and marking of the proposed lighthouse location were so inaccurate that later there were doubts as to whether the light had been erected on the selected site,” writes Lighthouses of Australia Inc.
Upon inspection, it was discovered that Cape St. George lighthouse was built 2.5 miles north of where the it was supposed to have been. The New South Wales Government was notified and a committee was chosen to look deeper into this matter.
The committee found that the location was chosen without inspecting the site and solely relying on maps of dubious character. But nonetheless the lighthouse remained and as a direct result, from 1864 to 1893, twenty-three ships were wrecked on the coast near Jervis Bay. The lighthouse was finally replaced in 1899 by Point Perpendicular Light, which was erected on the southern tip of the Beecroft Peninsula headland.
This location proved to be perfect and the new lighthouse was used for years. The light from the Cape St. George lighthouse was removed and installed in Crookhaven Heads Light, a lighthouse that was erected in 1904 north of the town of Culburra; the Crookhaven Heads Light today stands abandoned and is a favorite target for vandals.
Once the new Point Perpendicular Light was put to use, it became clear that having two lighthouses standing in the same vicinity is confusing, especially during daylight. Having no real use for the Cape St George Lighthouse, it was handed over to the Royal Australian Navy. They decided to use this decommissioned lighthouse as a target during military drills.
From: Abandoned Spaces com: Built in the wrong place, this Australian lighthouse caused several shipwrecks
End of excerpts
Thanks for taking the time to read the lighthouse excerpts. I thought it could also be a vivid illustration of dangerous cult-leaders like Jim Jones and victor paul wierwille – who gave misdirection from their skewed vantage point – which led to a lot of lives being wrecked.
Edited by T-Bonethe current editorial hoax: there are no typos here
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Cynthia
It was a Sunday night teaching at Emporia Way College that Dr Fat Rat did right after Jonestown.
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Rocky
Edited by RockyLink to comment
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Twinky
What Rocky said.
Martindale did a lot of "standing in the gap," cuz we wuz so weak in believing. Had to protect the household from the adversary, doncha know.
I hate the expression. When they were trying to get rid of me, or cow me into some sort of doormat state, all the leadership picked on me - for the mistakes my man had made. I always seemed to be in trouble and had the Country Coordinator, and IO, and various others demeaning and belittling me over a period of about 6 months. Honestly, I was so confused, because there was nothing I'd done wrong (except decline the CC's sexual advances). (There, I've said it now. Y'all know.) Anyhow, there was one day when my fiance and I had a row about my incompetence and he started yelling at me that he was the only one "standing in the gap" for me. Him! He was the one that did stupid things and I stopped him making some bad mistakes. And he was the only one standing in the gap between me and "the adversary."
Well, if you take "the adversary" to mean the BoT, the International Outreach coordinator at HQ, and my country coordinator - maybe the fiance was right. But dead wrong at the same time. He was too in thrall to them all, and others, to really stand up for me and tell them to pi$$ off. Or to 'fess up to his own mistakes.
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Nathan_Jr
Thanks, Rocky. So, Victor was standing alone, righteous before Yahweh, to save Israel from destruction from Yahweh? Was this about protecting TWI from Yahweh's wrath? Sorry. There's probably some context to microbe's post that I'm missing.
And the bit about waiting for Michael to win a particular battle? I need some help unpacking this, please.
Edited by Nathan_JrSnowball Pete is wearing Maggie's gloves.
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Nathan_Jr
Thanks, Twinky. This is all so F'd up. A form of gaslighting. "I'm the only one who can protect you, and you sure do need protecting!"
Sorry to get textually technical -- I only just now did a quick read of Ezekiel 22, so I may need to go back and read it more carefully, but wasn't the prophet talking about what the LORD had said - the LORD was looking for one man to stand in the gap or else the LORD himself would destroy the land?
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waysider
VPW was connected to Liberty Lobby. He got conspiracy information from them and passed it off to us, leading us to believe he had gotten the information by revelation. One of these theories involved the USSR taking over the USA. (mid 1970s) If the USA fell to Communism, the Word would be lost again because only TWI had the ability to rightly divide it. We had lots of prayer vigils and kept the situation high on our lift lists. There's a WHOLE lot more to the story, but, in summary, our believing and SIT was all that saved America. We were helping VPW to stand in the gap.
Dat's Riiiiight.
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Nathan_Jr
I've read this account here before. It's one of my favorite stories because it's so absurdly hilarious. It easily could have been a premise for a sketch on Mr. Show. Some of the funniest bull$hit I've heard anywhere. (It's up there with the music coordinator and T7TMOG.) There are people out there who still believe this.
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WordWolf
In twi, it was/is common to claim that the Christians "stand in the gap" or that a certain leader "stands in the gap" to pray for everyone.
There was even a song someone did once. "Standing in the gap, between the need and The Father, making up a hedge and turning loose His Mighty Power."
So, supposedly, lcm did it, and before him, vpw supposedly did it- a lot, at vpw's own word.
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WordWolf
Yes, that was vpw himself who made that claim. Whenever the number of eyewitnesses approached zero, vpw did fantastic things. What a shame we never had any witnessed to him doing amazing healings and so on.
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WordWolf
Yes, vpw standing alone, righteous before YHWH. No, not about saving Israel, vpw was of German ancestry and bashed Israel quite a bit. vpw was saving the entire planted from destruction by "the adversary", with only his own believing plugging the holes. So, he was supposedly sitting alone and unmoving. After a while, he'd announce that that time was vpw fighting for the planet, with only Michael the Archangel backing him up. Of course, nobody saw him doing anything other than drinking Drambuie alone and then announcing he'd been in a Deep Spiritual Conflict. I think the only thing you really missed was exactly how full of baloney vpw was. There were lots of little stories- propagated by vpw- about how he/vpw was doing Super Spiritual Stuff all the time, hearing directly from God Almighty and praying effectively for the entire planet.
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Rocky
So sorry you had to endure that abuse. So glad it's quite far behind you now. You (and the rest of us, thankfully) are a survivor!
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Twinky
Thanks, Nathan. Gaslighting. Yes. Yes, now I can see it as that. Perceptive of you.
"Stand in the gap" also occurs in Ezek 13. Interesting when you read both passages. A lot, in both, is said about false prophets, those claiming to speak for the Lord - out of their own imaginations, as Ezek 13 says. These are the ones who build flimsy coverings over the gaps, and the repairs were unable to withstand anything. Rather like, don't you think, certain theology, including but not limited to, an Ohio cornfield. And also, to bring this back towards topic, the theology of those in another field.
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Nathan_Jr
Wow. Just wow.
mmmmph
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chockfull
The only standing in the gap these arseholes ever did was standing in the one between their ears.
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