I stumbled on the facebook page of a guy I knew in the early 1970s. He had a comment on there that went something like "If you have anything bad to say about Dr. Wierwille, stay off my page." Just like the commercial for the office supply store says, "That was easy!."
YET.......the newly-exited corps have NO interest in uncovering these lies, deception and fraud. The leaders of splinter groups WANT to keep trekking on the SAME PATH OF BUTTS-IN-SEATS with nary a glance at how or why The Way International came crashing down. Rico and his clergy-lieutenants are now the men in charge!!! They get to stand at the podium and "teach the word" to others. They fly here. They hold classes there. In Montana, they had a camp outing and taught on the birds, animals and creation of God. Ain't it great? ppffftt.
4 hours ago, skyrider said:
READ it in mrs. wierwille's book. The dots are easy to connect.
Or perhaps the Dotsies are easy to connect.
Okay Brother Skyrider, please refresh our memories. What is the title of said book? Is there any place that book can currently be obtained?
Birds of a feather flock together.......people of similar interests, background, ideas or characteristics will often congregate or hang out with each other, people who have similar ideas or values tend to stick together.
Mrs. Wierwille's book chronicles the men and women who were instrumental in vp's learning and development.
At the E. Stanley Jones Ashram (retreat) in North Carolina 1944....young wierwille and nearly 200 others present. [p.48]
Rufus Moseley was a main speaker at this retreat.....and became a mentor, visiting vpw on two different occasions. [p. 52]
Inspired by Perry Hayden's teachings on agriculture and tithing.....wierwille firmly held to the doctrine of the tithe. [p. 55]
Glenn Clark and his Camp Farthest Out....utilizing the great outdoors to encourage peace, love, prayer and tranquility. [p. 56]
E. W. Kenyon....he was fixated on "Study to shew thyself approved unto God...." His great work and writings inspired vpw. [.76]
Foreign Missions in Honduras 1951.....Bertha Scheidt was a devoted, tireless worker in many educational programs. [p.77]
At "The Divine Healing Convention" in Tulsa 1951, wierwille was instructed to seek out the man J. E. Stiles. [p. 78-80]
According to this book, Rev. Stiles was able to answer all of wierwille's perplexing questions and to help him receive into manifestation holy spirit. This marked a turning point in vpw's quest of the holy spirit field and solidified his emboldened stance that he was unable to find answers in colleges and universitites, in churches and classrooms or mission fields. The churches were unable to fulfill his need.
Starr Daily was a guest speaker......in and out of prison in his younger years, and published Love Can Open Prison Doors. [p. 82]
Albert Cliffe was zealous over "the law of believing." He was instrumental in promoting Let Go and Let God. [p.94]
.......* Mrs. W. puts Cliffe on page 94 (out of chronological order -- January 4-8, 1953).
.......Why? It put more distance (in the book) from connecting Leonard's Feb 1953 class to Wierwille's Oct 1953 class.
B. G. Leonard, whom vp met in Tulsa 1951......ministered healing over the phone to Mary Wierwille and she was healed. [p.87,88]
Leonard's class "The Gifts of the Spirit" was the foundational cornerstone and rock.....and vpw made it his own. [p. 90,91]
.....Picture of vpw in Leonard's February 1953 class. [p.90]
.....Picture of Dotsie and Don in Leonard's June/July 1953 class [p.91]
THEN......page 99, "In October 1953, Dr. Wierwille taught the first Power for Abundant Living class, which was held in the basement of St. Peter's Church. The first two classes were called "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." The name was then changed to the broader title that fit better with the entire scope of what the class covers. Also, "Power for Abundant Living" would have a greater and broader appeal to people, especially to those not from religious backgrounds."
.................p. 100, "The people who had been part of B. G. Leonard's class on 'The Gifts of the Spirit' were considered graduates and not included in the rosters of Dr. Wierwille's classes."
Translation: Wierwille's class WAS LEONARD'S CLASS. The two carloads of people who attended the June/July 1953 class and were not included in the rosters of new students of this October 1953 class. They were already grads......and did not pay the registration fee (imo).
Also, the name of the class was changed. Marketing strategy and distancing it further from Leonard's work.
Page 101, 102.......Dr. E. E. Higgins attended vpw's class and she was the person who introduced wierwille to the great and influential works of an Englishman named E. W. Bullinger (1837-1913). She gave wierwille his first Companion Bible and a copy of Bullinger's How to Enjoy the Bible.
The dots connect.
Wierwille claimed to have intricate inroads into the holy spirit field.
Yet, in all my years (corps, staff and clergy).......I never saw wierwille operate any of the revelation or power manifestations. Not once.
In conclusion, to me.......Mrs. W's book documents how wierwille was a searching opportunist, looking for a niche like all the other renegade preachers, itinerants and guest speakers who traveled the circuit thru the late 1930s - 1960s. Birds of a feather flock together.......and wierwille found his shtick in compiling, plagiarizing and marketing the works of E. Stanley Jones (Abundant Living - 1942), to Leonard's foundational class (1953), to E. W. Bullinger's research work (Companion Bible and How to Enjoy the Bible).
Unwittingly, this book reveals a paradigm that debunks the myths and mystique of victor paul wierwille.
In conclusion, to me.......Mrs. W's book documents how wierwille was a searching opportunist, looking for a niche like all the other renegade preachers, itinerants and guest speakers who traveled the circuit thru the late 1930s - 1960s. Birds of a feather flock together.......and wierwille found his shtick in compiling, plagiarizing and marketing the works of E. Stanley Jones (Abundant Living - 1942), to Leonard's foundational class (1953), to E. W. Bullinger's research work (Companion Bible and How to Enjoy the Bible).
The "birds of a feather" were flocking together OUTSIDE the church denominations.
Wierwille didn't like the confinement and structure of answering to church boards. He was free-wheeling in his decision-making. Running with renegade preachers, traveling "scholars" and guest speakers......it gave wierwille complete flexibility and control to "do as he fool-well pleased." Sin included.
Claiming to be "the man of God".......was a bridge too far.
dmiller posted here about Leonard's account. According to Leonard, vpw came up to take BGL's class one time. Then vpw requested permission to teach BGL's class locally on a one-time basis. Leonard consented. He was told the class went off and was sent a photo of the graduates. That's the last he was told.
What Leonard found out LATER was that vpw left out that the class was Leonard's. He taught it entirely as his own class. That was why the original classes had no syllabus. vpw would have had to refrain from the printed syllabus of "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" and get around to retyping it as the syllabus of "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." vpw continued to teach that class. Later, vpw added Stiles' book "Gifts of the Spirit" to Sessions 9-12, retyped Stiles' textbook as the White Book, and added the contents of Bullinger's book on the holy spirit (to the White Book and 9-12) and "How to Enjoy the Bible" (which became Sessions 5-8). As he added material, he also split off the Intermediate Class from the other material (first as the "TIP" class for "Tongues Interpretation and Prophecy", then stretched out as the full Intermediate class. The classes were amalgams of the material of others, rearranged and occasionally reworded so they sounded less like the authors.
dmiller posted here about Leonard's account. According to Leonard, vpw came up to take BGL's class one time. Then vpw requested permission to teach BGL's class locally on a one-time basis. Leonard consented. He was told the class went off and was sent a photo of the graduates. That's the last he was told.
What Leonard found out LATER was that vpw left out that the class was Leonard's. He taught it entirely as his own class. That was why the original classes had no syllabus. vpw would have had to refrain from the printed syllabus of "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" and get around to retyping it as the syllabus of "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." vpw continued to teach that class. Later, vpw added Stiles' book "Gifts of the Spirit" to Sessions 9-12, retyped Stiles' textbook as the White Book, and added the contents of Bullinger's book on the holy spirit (to the White Book and 9-12) and "How to Enjoy the Bible" (which became Sessions 5-8). As he added material, he also split off the Intermediate Class from the other material (first as the "TIP" class for "Tongues Interpretation and Prophecy", then stretched out as the full Intermediate class. The classes were amalgams of the material of others, rearranged and occasionally reworded so they sounded less like the authors.
It was TheEvan, not dmiller, who posted it.
"Back to Leonard. Being cataloger of old photos and such, surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two "PFAL" classes? Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did. But i didn't see them in Da Way. I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture. It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times.
As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class. He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing. The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregatin in O-hiya. Hmmm. Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-oted the man's work as his own. FAMILIAR PATTERN!"
(From the thread, "Craig and VP's relationship", page 3. 1/17/2005)
Until today, I've been behind the times in my knowledge of how major a WAY offshoot there is in Belize, although I'd heard of it. On Amazon I saw they published a book titled Christ in You. I recognized the cover photo: the original group of W.O.W.s that VPW sent out in the summer of 1971. The ones who are still alive no longer stand with TWI.
They recycle a lot of VPW books, etc. Geez. How did they get the rights to do that? Or do they not care about details like that?
They recycle a lot of VPW books, etc. Geez. How did they get the rights to do that? Or do they not care about details like that?
Details? Like the thousands of errors that riddle PFAL and the collaterals and Way mags? Details like that only matter if you beleeeve they do. Victor "taught" us that. Hey, I didn't write the book!
They are imitating victor paul wierwille. Above all, they are standing... on his shoulders.
Until today, I've been behind the times in my knowledge of how major a WAY offshoot there is in Belize, although I'd heard of it. On Amazon I saw they published a book titled Christ in You. I recognized the cover photo: the original group of W.O.W.s that VPW sent out in the summer of 1971. The ones who are still alive no longer stand with TWI.
They recycle a lot of VPW books, etc. Geez. How did they get the rights to do that? Or do they not care about details like that?
It seems any book buying through LTA routes directly to Amazon where publishing rights of American Christian Press are protected.
Furthermore, It seems anything “published,” sold or offered for download by LTA is nothing more than a transcription of a sermon. That Christ In You book is just a collection of transcribed sermons.
(Existing or non-existing treaties have no bearing whatsoever.)
As I understand it, victor paul wierwille’s sermons are in the public domain. A YouTube channel unaffiliated with TWI uploads transcribed sermons daily.
——
Is it ironic that LTA purports to be on a mission supporting education and literacy and a “lifetime of learning” while at the same time promoting the spiritual flat earth ideology of wierwille and Bullinger?
Good news! LTA makes it possible to donate books directly to those children being indoctrinated. Any ideas for a book I could send?
There does NOT appear to be a copyright infringement, no matter the laws, actual or heard, of Belize. LTA does NOT appear to be publishing nor reproducing for any purpose TWI's copyrighted material.
I simply heard it casually in conversation, and from too many sources to remember, and for many years.
Hearing it in casual conversation (especially with twi followers) is not only no guarantee for truth or facts, but a particularly dangerous method for determining one's understanding of law. Dare I posit especially laws of countries with which we have no experience or other understanding. Just sayin'
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waysider
I stumbled on the facebook page of a guy I knew in the early 1970s. He had a comment on there that went something like "If you have anything bad to say about Dr. Wierwille, stay off my page." Just like the commercial for the office supply store says, "That was easy!."
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Rocky
Or perhaps the Dotsies are easy to connect.
Okay Brother Skyrider, please refresh our memories. What is the title of said book? Is there any place that book can currently be obtained?
Thanks
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waysider
Born Again To Serve.
Amazon has it. You won't like the price.
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Rocky
$82.33! You inferred correctly, sir.
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skyrider
Birds of a feather flock together.......people of similar interests, background, ideas or characteristics will often congregate or hang out with each other, people who have similar ideas or values tend to stick together.
Mrs. Wierwille's book chronicles the men and women who were instrumental in vp's learning and development.
According to this book, Rev. Stiles was able to answer all of wierwille's perplexing questions and to help him receive into manifestation holy spirit. This marked a turning point in vpw's quest of the holy spirit field and solidified his emboldened stance that he was unable to find answers in colleges and universitites, in churches and classrooms or mission fields. The churches were unable to fulfill his need.
THEN......page 99, "In October 1953, Dr. Wierwille taught the first Power for Abundant Living class, which was held in the basement of St. Peter's Church. The first two classes were called "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." The name was then changed to the broader title that fit better with the entire scope of what the class covers. Also, "Power for Abundant Living" would have a greater and broader appeal to people, especially to those not from religious backgrounds."
.................p. 100, "The people who had been part of B. G. Leonard's class on 'The Gifts of the Spirit' were considered graduates and not included in the rosters of Dr. Wierwille's classes."
Page 101, 102.......Dr. E. E. Higgins attended vpw's class and she was the person who introduced wierwille to the great and influential works of an Englishman named E. W. Bullinger (1837-1913). She gave wierwille his first Companion Bible and a copy of Bullinger's How to Enjoy the Bible.
The dots connect.
Wierwille claimed to have intricate inroads into the holy spirit field.
Yet, in all my years (corps, staff and clergy).......I never saw wierwille operate any of the revelation or power manifestations. Not once.
In conclusion, to me.......Mrs. W's book documents how wierwille was a searching opportunist, looking for a niche like all the other renegade preachers, itinerants and guest speakers who traveled the circuit thru the late 1930s - 1960s. Birds of a feather flock together.......and wierwille found his shtick in compiling, plagiarizing and marketing the works of E. Stanley Jones (Abundant Living - 1942), to Leonard's foundational class (1953), to E. W. Bullinger's research work (Companion Bible and How to Enjoy the Bible).
Unwittingly, this book reveals a paradigm that debunks the myths and mystique of victor paul wierwille.
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skyrider
The "birds of a feather" were flocking together OUTSIDE the church denominations.
Wierwille didn't like the confinement and structure of answering to church boards. He was free-wheeling in his decision-making. Running with renegade preachers, traveling "scholars" and guest speakers......it gave wierwille complete flexibility and control to "do as he fool-well pleased." Sin included.
Claiming to be "the man of God".......was a bridge too far.
A rambling preacher, yes.
The man of God for the whole world......no.
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WordWolf
dmiller posted here about Leonard's account. According to Leonard, vpw came up to take BGL's class one time. Then vpw requested permission to teach BGL's class locally on a one-time basis. Leonard consented. He was told the class went off and was sent a photo of the graduates. That's the last he was told.
What Leonard found out LATER was that vpw left out that the class was Leonard's. He taught it entirely as his own class. That was why the original classes had no syllabus. vpw would have had to refrain from the printed syllabus of "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" and get around to retyping it as the syllabus of "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today." vpw continued to teach that class. Later, vpw added Stiles' book "Gifts of the Spirit" to Sessions 9-12, retyped Stiles' textbook as the White Book, and added the contents of Bullinger's book on the holy spirit (to the White Book and 9-12) and "How to Enjoy the Bible" (which became Sessions 5-8). As he added material, he also split off the Intermediate Class from the other material (first as the "TIP" class for "Tongues Interpretation and Prophecy", then stretched out as the full Intermediate class. The classes were amalgams of the material of others, rearranged and occasionally reworded so they sounded less like the authors.
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WordWolf
It was TheEvan, not dmiller, who posted it.
"Back to Leonard. Being cataloger of old photos and such, surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two "PFAL" classes? Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did. But i didn't see them in Da Way. I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture. It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times.
As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class. He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing. The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregatin in O-hiya. Hmmm. Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-oted the man's work as his own. FAMILIAR PATTERN!"
(From the thread, "Craig and VP's relationship", page 3. 1/17/2005)
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Ham
I dunno. I think Splinter work is the Wierwille legacy if one is trying to obtain money, fortune and fame from it..
filthy lucre.
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Twinky
Here's something to help deal with those splinters.
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penworks
Until today, I've been behind the times in my knowledge of how major a WAY offshoot there is in Belize, although I'd heard of it. On Amazon I saw they published a book titled Christ in You. I recognized the cover photo: the original group of W.O.W.s that VPW sent out in the summer of 1971. The ones who are still alive no longer stand with TWI.
They recycle a lot of VPW books, etc. Geez. How did they get the rights to do that? Or do they not care about details like that?
About Us | LTA (ltaschool.com)
Read books online (ourebooks.com)
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Mike
It is my understanding that the country of Belize has no copyright treaty with the USA.
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Nathan_Jr
Details? Like the thousands of errors that riddle PFAL and the collaterals and Way mags? Details like that only matter if you beleeeve they do. Victor "taught" us that. Hey, I didn't write the book!
They are imitating victor paul wierwille. Above all, they are standing... on his shoulders.
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Nathan_Jr
It seems any book buying through LTA routes directly to Amazon where publishing rights of American Christian Press are protected.
Furthermore, It seems anything “published,” sold or offered for download by LTA is nothing more than a transcription of a sermon. That Christ In You book is just a collection of transcribed sermons.
(Existing or non-existing treaties have no bearing whatsoever.)
As I understand it, victor paul wierwille’s sermons are in the public domain. A YouTube channel unaffiliated with TWI uploads transcribed sermons daily.
——
Is it ironic that LTA purports to be on a mission supporting education and literacy and a “lifetime of learning” while at the same time promoting the spiritual flat earth ideology of wierwille and Bullinger?
Good news! LTA makes it possible to donate books directly to those children being indoctrinated. Any ideas for a book I could send?
Edited by Nathan_JrGloved hands
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Stayed Too Long
Belize does respect the copyright laws of other countries.
https://www.belipo.bz/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Copyright-Orders.pdf
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Rocky
Intriguing.
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Rocky
How did you come to that understanding?
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Rocky
Perhaps in theory but not necessarily in practice?
Which makes Mike's possible misunderstanding potentially true also.
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Mike
I simply heard it casually in conversation, and from too many sources to remember, and for many years.
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Nathan_Jr
So what? It doesn't matter.
There does NOT appear to be a copyright infringement, no matter the laws, actual or heard, of Belize. LTA does NOT appear to be publishing nor reproducing for any purpose TWI's copyrighted material.
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Rocky
Hearing it in casual conversation (especially with twi followers) is not only no guarantee for truth or facts, but a particularly dangerous method for determining one's understanding of law. Dare I posit especially laws of countries with which we have no experience or other understanding. Just sayin'
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Ham
I gather all kinds of facts this way- or should I call them opinions. Too many sources to remember.. but generally I do.
I was showing some students the nature of multiplying by the number 9, and the results..
9 X 2 = 18, 1 +8 = 9
9X 4 = 36, 3 +6 = 9
9 X 32 = 288, 2 + 8 +8 = 18, 1 + 8 =9.
I cited my source. It was from Sesame Street.
Of course it is far more interesting when Muppets are singing and dancing about numbers.. heh
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Ham
If only you could read it in the original.. heh
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Ham
Edited by Hammessed up quoting process.. trying to delete..
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