Never heard of it before. So clearly, despite VPW's adulation of Martin Luther, celebrating the nailing of the 95 theses didn't hit VPW's radar. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he'd never heard of Reformation Day (or Reformation Sunday).
The way The Way celebrated Halloween was discussed in a lame class which was the last one I took before leaving. It was called The Believer's Family, or some such. In it LCM said that was each family's decision. Sometimes they had a "Harvest Festival" or some such. Some believers just let their kids go trick or treating or to a locally sponsored event.
VPW talked a lot about Reformation and Martin Luther, but I do not recall in my 23.5 years in that we celebrated it on the same day as the traditional Protestant church calendar. I do recall, however, that on one day around the time Jesus Christ is Not God was published, that he went to the Evangelical and Reformed Church in downtown New Knoxville and posted his Theses (not 95) on its church door. As you might imagine, that did not go over well with the locals.
In all my time attending Way functions (1970s-1980s), I don't recall ever being specifically taught anything about Reformation. I'm sure it must have been referenced in passing, but that's about the extent of it. I was never in the WC, so maybe that's the reason.
The way The Way celebrated Halloween was discussed in a lame class which was the last one I took before leaving. It was called The Believer's Family, or some such. In it LCM said that was each family's decision. Sometimes they had a "Harvest Festival" or some such. Some believers just let their kids go trick or treating or to a locally sponsored event.
VPW talked a lot about Reformation and Martin Luther, but I do not recall in my 23.5 years in that we celebrated it on the same day as the traditional Protestant church calendar. I do recall, however, that on one day around the time Jesus Christ is Not God was published, that he went to the Evangelical and Reformed Church in downtown New Knoxville and posted his Theses (not 95) on its church door. As you might imagine, that did not go over well with the locals.
Martin Luther was famous for the 95 Theses incident. Martin Luther, disgusted with church/political corruption in the church, isolated 95 specific points where the church official practices and teachings differed sharply from the Bible's content (at least how he saw it, certainly.) He made a list, then posted it at the door of the church- which, at the time, meant he was opening discussion on the topic(s).
Wierwille never studied church history (too much work.) So, he had a cursory understanding of the incident at best. When he announced he was going to do something similar, he said they were going to go around to all the church doors, and post the list of verses that said Jesus was the Son of God. Much later, I read about what they actually DID. They went to all the church doors. They posted a sign that said, "Jesus Christ is Not God. Never was and never will be." They dropped off a signed copy of "Jesus Christ is Not God", and they took off.
==================================
The Way Magazine, January-February 1978, p. 22.
"On October 50, 1977, Victor Paul Wierwille stepped from his luxury coach and strutted proudly to the front door of his former United Church of Christ in New Knoxville. There, in an act representing what he saw as “a potentially greater Reformation” than that begun by Martin Luther, he nailed his “version” of Luther’s 95 theses to its door. It screamed: JESUS CHRIST IS NOT GOD—Never Was and Never Will Be.” Then, “Dr. Wierwille strode back to the custom coach after placing an autographed copy of Jesus Christ Is Not God at the foot of the church door for all to see. As the custom coach pulled away, its foghorn blasted three times to signify the ceremony’s completion.”
============================================
The limit of vpw's understanding of history didn't go beyond posturing and grandstanding.
As for the founding of the Protestant Reformation, vpw didn't know much beyond the nailing of the 95 Theses, if he knew anything more. He couldn't celebrate what he didn't know. The only way vpw would have celebrated such an event would have been the way he made other comments, the lazy way. Some twi-er would do the research, then come to him, thinking he'd also done the research. Then vpw would later parrot what they said, and make it sound like he'd done the research himself. With vpw deprecating the study of history (which saved him from having to learn it), few wayfers would have bothered. In fact, it was a selling point of twi that they went back to the 1st century Christian Church and ignored all the history since then, which they derided as religion. Mind you, they wouldn't bring that up if they mentioned George Mueller (Muller), or Tyndale, but otherwise, yes.
In all my time attending Way functions (1970s-1980s), I don't recall ever being specifically taught anything about Reformation. I'm sure it must have been referenced in passing, but that's about the extent of it. I was never in the WC, so maybe that's the reason.
The funny thing about that.... you can take a general subject, talk ABOUT it for HOURS, and never say anything SPECIFIC about it. I'm confident Mr "my degree is in Homiletics" could go on forever on the Reformation without hitting one historical fact. He had the general idea, he had the nailing of the theses, and if he had nothing else, he could expound on that all day. Homespun analogies, anecdotes, editorializing, the list goes on and on.
I remember celebrating Reformation Sunday. Also, at my Advanced class we watched an old Martin Luther movie. Years later, this same movie was shown in our fellowships.
I remember celebrating Reformation Sunday. Also, at my Advanced class we watched an old Martin Luther movie. Years later, this same movie was shown in our fellowships.
I heard they regularly showed this one film about Martin Luther at the Advanced class, just as cg showed this Tyndale video at his Advanced class. (Someone got a copy of the tape of the Martin Luther one, so I saw it at someone's home, later, now that I think about it.)
How did they "celebrate" Reformation Sunday? Was it "this is Reformation Sunday, this is who Martin Luther was, and here's a film about him" , with a 10 second explanation of Martin Luther, or was there something in addition?
I thought this was a regular event. Maybe it wasn't.
The movie was an opportunity to thump your chest and chant "sola scriptura" and then thumb your nose at authority while Luther gets worked up, (an authority that doesn't even know you exist).
Edited by Bolshevik words and the letters and putting them together
Maybe because of my Lutheran heritage, it seems Lutherans and Moravians were the only ones who celebrated Reformation Day(most of them celebrated the Sunday before October 31st). Strange that the Reformed churches rarely did that
I remember Halloween parties where we had to go as biblical characters. (of course) Once I taped sticks and leaves and orange and yellow streams of crepe paper and went as the Burning Bush.
The way it was taught to us in about 2007 was that the adversary has tricked the idiots of the world into celebrating Halloween on this great day. They talked about Martin Luther (only the good things of course like he was a .... saint) and what he did. They said the world celebrates death, but we are watching this dangty boring as hell movie. I don't remember if they called it Reformation, and I don't care, but I do remember Reformation being talked about, and how it was basically the dark ages before it.
Exodus 30 says it formed the basis of an anointing oil. It was later used as an ingredient of the consecrating incense in the Temple at Jerusalem, at least according to Wikipedia (which cites the Talmud.)
Next stop (at least in the UK): Remembrance Sunday - the nearest Sunday to the 11th day of the 11th month. Commonly called "Poppy Day."
Remembrance Day itself is observed on 11 November in most countries to recall the end of hostilities of First World War on that date in 1918. Hostilities formally ended "at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month." Mostly observed as such in Commonwealth countries.
On the Sunday, there will be parades at all UK churches, with Scouts, Guides, etc and the British Legion (ex-service personnel) with flags and wreaths. Prayers and thanks for the dead in action. There's a startling 2-min silence at 11am, broken by a bugler playing the last post. In our village, most of the traffic (at least past the church) also stops (a voluntary action).
I think the emphasis is a little different from the US Veterans' Day.
It's good to remember and honour the sacrifices of those who have died in honorable combat.
Next stop (at least in the UK): Remembrance Sunday - the nearest Sunday to the 11th day of the 11th month. Commonly called "Poppy Day."
Remembrance Day itself is observed on 11 November in most countries to recall the end of hostilities of First World War on that date in 1918. Hostilities formally ended "at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month." Mostly observed as such in Commonwealth countries.
On the Sunday, there will be parades at all UK churches, with Scouts, Guides, etc and the British Legion (ex-service personnel) with flags and wreaths. Prayers and thanks for the dead in action. There's a startling 2-min silence at 11am, broken by a bugler playing the last post. In our village, most of the traffic (at least past the church) also stops (a voluntary action).
I think the emphasis is a little different from the US Veterans' Day.
It's good to remember and honour the sacrifices of those who have died in honorable combat.
Veterans Day(originally known asArmistice Day) is afederal holiday in the United Statesobserved annually on November 11, for honoringmilitary veterans, that is, persons who have served in theUnited States Armed Forces(and were discharged under conditions other than dishonorable)[1].[2]It coincides with other holidays includingArmistice DayandRemembrance Daywhich are celebrated in other countries that mark the anniversary of the end ofWorld War I. Major hostilities of World War I were formally ended at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918, when theArmistice with Germanywent into effect. At the urging of major U.S. veteran organizations, Armistice Day was renamed Veterans Day in 1954.
Veterans Day is distinct fromMemorial Day, a U.S. public holiday in May. Veterans Day celebrates the service of all U.S. military veterans, while Memorial Day honors those who havediedwhile in military service.[3]There is another military holiday,Armed Forces Day, a minor U.S. remembrance that also occurs in May, which honors thosecurrently servingin the U.S. military.
Remembrance Day, Vets' Day, or those other things you mention, Rocky: I don't recall TWI respecting any of those days. Could be wrong as to whether they did or not, but I don't remember anything.
But then - nobody knows or understands "service" or "serving one's country" quite as well as TWI (bleah, vomit).
Remembrance Day, Vets' Day, or those other things you mention, Rocky: I don't recall TWI respecting any of those days. Could be wrong as to whether they did or not, but I don't remember anything.
But then - nobody knows or understands "service" or "serving one's country" quite as well as TWI (bleah, vomit).
It's interesting- when one thinks about what was SAID about the military. Breakthrough dd a song, "Military Man", and vpw often cozied up to the idea of the military like he cozied up quietly to the big money. Did vpw like the military? Yes and no. When it was time for vpw to serve, he went into ministry, which got him an exemption, IIRC. vpw talked up how good it was that the military were LOYAL- that an order was given and carried out without question. Since he had no experience with the military- no time himself, no family members in the military, all he knew was what was in the movies and/or television.
What stuck with him was a system where people got to give orders that were obeyed without question. Compare that to the REAL military, and you see a different picture. Unlawful orders can be questioned and refused (uncommon, but not impossible.) Officers giving inappropriate orders may be followed NOW but the higher-ups will look into this. (There's always someone higher-up.) Finally, officers are ACCOUNTABLE and can end up serving hard time in Leavenworth if they just flatly decide to do whatever they want and issue whatever orders they want. vpw knew none of this. He saw officers bark orders and be obeyed, and that impressed him. That was the movies. Me? I was impressed when I saw Christopher Reeve fly in the movies with the big 'S' on his chest, but the reality never quite matched the movies. The sad part? Even as a kid, I knew the difference between the movies and the reality.
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Twinky
Never heard of it before. So clearly, despite VPW's adulation of Martin Luther, celebrating the nailing of the 95 theses didn't hit VPW's radar. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he'd never heard of Reformation Day (or Reformation Sunday).
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DogLover
The way The Way celebrated Halloween was discussed in a lame class which was the last one I took before leaving. It was called The Believer's Family, or some such. In it LCM said that was each family's decision. Sometimes they had a "Harvest Festival" or some such. Some believers just let their kids go trick or treating or to a locally sponsored event.
VPW talked a lot about Reformation and Martin Luther, but I do not recall in my 23.5 years in that we celebrated it on the same day as the traditional Protestant church calendar. I do recall, however, that on one day around the time Jesus Christ is Not God was published, that he went to the Evangelical and Reformed Church in downtown New Knoxville and posted his Theses (not 95) on its church door. As you might imagine, that did not go over well with the locals.
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waysider
In all my time attending Way functions (1970s-1980s), I don't recall ever being specifically taught anything about Reformation. I'm sure it must have been referenced in passing, but that's about the extent of it. I was never in the WC, so maybe that's the reason.
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WordWolf
Martin Luther was famous for the 95 Theses incident. Martin Luther, disgusted with church/political corruption in the church, isolated 95 specific points where the church official practices and teachings differed sharply from the Bible's content (at least how he saw it, certainly.) He made a list, then posted it at the door of the church- which, at the time, meant he was opening discussion on the topic(s).
Wierwille never studied church history (too much work.) So, he had a cursory understanding of the incident at best. When he announced he was going to do something similar, he said they were going to go around to all the church doors, and post the list of verses that said Jesus was the Son of God. Much later, I read about what they actually DID. They went to all the church doors. They posted a sign that said, "Jesus Christ is Not God. Never was and never will be." They dropped off a signed copy of "Jesus Christ is Not God", and they took off.
==================================
The Way Magazine, January-February 1978, p. 22.
"On October 50, 1977, Victor Paul Wierwille stepped from his luxury coach and strutted proudly to the front door of his former United Church of Christ in New Knoxville. There, in an act representing what he saw as “a potentially greater Reformation” than that begun by Martin Luther, he nailed his “version” of Luther’s 95 theses to its door. It screamed: JESUS CHRIST IS NOT GOD—Never Was and Never Will Be.” Then, “Dr. Wierwille strode back to the custom coach after placing an autographed copy of Jesus Christ Is Not God at the foot of the church door for all to see. As the custom coach pulled away, its foghorn blasted three times to signify the ceremony’s completion.”
============================================
The limit of vpw's understanding of history didn't go beyond posturing and grandstanding.
As for the founding of the Protestant Reformation, vpw didn't know much beyond the nailing of the 95 Theses, if he knew anything more. He couldn't celebrate what he didn't know. The only way vpw would have celebrated such an event would have been the way he made other comments, the lazy way. Some twi-er would do the research, then come to him, thinking he'd also done the research. Then vpw would later parrot what they said, and make it sound like he'd done the research himself. With vpw deprecating the study of history (which saved him from having to learn it), few wayfers would have bothered. In fact, it was a selling point of twi that they went back to the 1st century Christian Church and ignored all the history since then, which they derided as religion. Mind you, they wouldn't bring that up if they mentioned George Mueller (Muller), or Tyndale, but otherwise, yes.
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WordWolf
The funny thing about that.... you can take a general subject, talk ABOUT it for HOURS, and never say anything SPECIFIC about it. I'm confident Mr "my degree is in Homiletics" could go on forever on the Reformation without hitting one historical fact. He had the general idea, he had the nailing of the theses, and if he had nothing else, he could expound on that all day. Homespun analogies, anecdotes, editorializing, the list goes on and on.
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penguin2
I remember celebrating Reformation Sunday. Also, at my Advanced class we watched an old Martin Luther movie. Years later, this same movie was shown in our fellowships.
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WordWolf
I heard they regularly showed this one film about Martin Luther at the Advanced class, just as cg showed this Tyndale video at his Advanced class. (Someone got a copy of the tape of the Martin Luther one, so I saw it at someone's home, later, now that I think about it.)
How did they "celebrate" Reformation Sunday? Was it "this is Reformation Sunday, this is who Martin Luther was, and here's a film about him" , with a 10 second explanation of Martin Luther, or was there something in addition?
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Bolshevik
I thought this was a regular event. Maybe it wasn't.
The movie was an opportunity to thump your chest and chant "sola scriptura" and then thumb your nose at authority while Luther gets worked up, (an authority that doesn't even know you exist
).
Edited by Bolshevikwords and the letters and putting them together
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Maybe because of my Lutheran heritage, it seems Lutherans and Moravians were the only ones who celebrated Reformation Day(most of them celebrated the Sunday before October 31st). Strange that the Reformed churches rarely did that
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outandabout
I remember Halloween parties where we had to go as biblical characters. (of course) Once I taped sticks and leaves and orange and yellow streams of crepe paper and went as the Burning Bush.
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Twinky
Sounds like great fun! Very inventive.
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No names left
The way it was taught to us in about 2007 was that the adversary has tricked the idiots of the world into celebrating Halloween on this great day. They talked about Martin Luther (only the good things of course like he was a .... saint) and what he did. They said the world celebrates death, but we are watching this dangty boring as hell movie. I don't remember if they called it Reformation, and I don't care, but I do remember Reformation being talked about, and how it was basically the dark ages before it.
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outandabout
Re; the burning bush. At the time I was being a little satirical. "You want a biblical costume do you? Ok, take this!"
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WordWolf
It sounds funny and clever. As soon as I read it, I thought of getting 2 friends and going as the gold, frankincense and myrrh (back then, at least.)
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outandabout
You'd have to figure out what myrrh is.
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WordWolf
A gum resin used in burials.
Exodus 30 says it formed the basis of an anointing oil. It was later used as an ingredient of the consecrating incense in the Temple at Jerusalem, at least according to Wikipedia (which cites the Talmud.)
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Twinky
Not only not Halloween.
Also, not All Saints' Day (1 November) or All Souls' Day (2 November). Both of these are significant in church calendars.
But we can commemorate "Uncle Harry Day" (the anniv of Harry's birthday) and make a big deal of that.
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Twinky
Next stop (at least in the UK): Remembrance Sunday - the nearest Sunday to the 11th day of the 11th month. Commonly called "Poppy Day."
Remembrance Day itself is observed on 11 November in most countries to recall the end of hostilities of First World War on that date in 1918. Hostilities formally ended "at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month." Mostly observed as such in Commonwealth countries.
On the Sunday, there will be parades at all UK churches, with Scouts, Guides, etc and the British Legion (ex-service personnel) with flags and wreaths. Prayers and thanks for the dead in action. There's a startling 2-min silence at 11am, broken by a bugler playing the last post. In our village, most of the traffic (at least past the church) also stops (a voluntary action).
I think the emphasis is a little different from the US Veterans' Day.
It's good to remember and honour the sacrifices of those who have died in honorable combat.
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Rocky
From Wikipedia:
Veterans Day (originally known as Armistice Day) is a federal holiday in the United States observed annually on November 11, for honoring military veterans, that is, persons who have served in the United States Armed Forces (and were discharged under conditions other than dishonorable)[1].[2] It coincides with other holidays including Armistice Day and Remembrance Day which are celebrated in other countries that mark the anniversary of the end of World War I. Major hostilities of World War I were formally ended at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918, when the Armistice with Germany went into effect. At the urging of major U.S. veteran organizations, Armistice Day was renamed Veterans Day in 1954.
Veterans Day is distinct from Memorial Day, a U.S. public holiday in May. Veterans Day celebrates the service of all U.S. military veterans, while Memorial Day honors those who have died while in military service.[3] There is another military holiday, Armed Forces Day, a minor U.S. remembrance that also occurs in May, which honors those currently serving in the U.S. military.
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Twinky
Remembrance Day, Vets' Day, or those other things you mention, Rocky: I don't recall TWI respecting any of those days. Could be wrong as to whether they did or not, but I don't remember anything.
But then - nobody knows or understands "service" or "serving one's country" quite as well as TWI (bleah, vomit).
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Rocky
I don't recall them having done so either.
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WordWolf
It's interesting- when one thinks about what was SAID about the military. Breakthrough dd a song, "Military Man", and vpw often cozied up to the idea of the military like he cozied up quietly to the big money. Did vpw like the military? Yes and no. When it was time for vpw to serve, he went into ministry, which got him an exemption, IIRC. vpw talked up how good it was that the military were LOYAL- that an order was given and carried out without question. Since he had no experience with the military- no time himself, no family members in the military, all he knew was what was in the movies and/or television.
What stuck with him was a system where people got to give orders that were obeyed without question. Compare that to the REAL military, and you see a different picture. Unlawful orders can be questioned and refused (uncommon, but not impossible.) Officers giving inappropriate orders may be followed NOW but the higher-ups will look into this. (There's always someone higher-up.) Finally, officers are ACCOUNTABLE and can end up serving hard time in Leavenworth if they just flatly decide to do whatever they want and issue whatever orders they want. vpw knew none of this. He saw officers bark orders and be obeyed, and that impressed him. That was the movies. Me? I was impressed when I saw Christopher Reeve fly in the movies with the big 'S' on his chest, but the reality never quite matched the movies. The sad part? Even as a kid, I knew the difference between the movies and the reality.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
When we have book burnings of Wierwille's plagurized materials
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Twinky
Uncle Harry Day:
Now who'd've thought that VPW could have planned so far ahead?
That is funny, Thomas.
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