I was intrigued by this same issue, and so did some research on it. Some of my work is based on research by Ernest L. Martin (his work here), and some is from what I worked on my own. Following is a summary of what I found.
The Mosaic Law was very specific, the aspect of the tithe being no different. The tithe was instituted so that the tribe of Levi would be supported because they owned no property and could not raise crops or livestock. If you read the details of the tithe you'll see it specifies crops and animals. These tithes were to be brought to the Temple in Jerusalem and put into the storehouse. This was modified slightly, but basically that was it. In Malachi there is a description of them NOT doing this. There is no mention of contributing money even though there was money then; some people did work for money. The only time money is involved is if the person lives so far away from the Temple that it would be impractical to bring the animal or crop tithe. In that case, they were to sell their tithe, travel to the Temple, and then purchase the proper tithe. That was what the money changers, the ones Jesus drove out and threw down their tables, were there for. An important detail that is often missed or ignored was that this was for the nation of Israel only, not for the gentiles.
In the new testament Paul never mentions the tithe. The monetary sharing among the believers was on a local level, to those that had need. At one point Paul does help gather a large sharing for Jerusalem from among the believers in Corinth and the surrounding area, because there was a famine in Israel. This is done only once, and it is not referred to as a tithe.
There is actually less validity today for the tithe than there is for honoring the Passover. That's because the Passover meal isn't dependent on any conditions, so for a person still following the law honoring the Passover is okay. But the tithe is dependent on conditions. There is no longer a tribe of Levi conducting religious work at the Temple - there is no Temple. So to tithe as described in the Mosaic law is actually illegal today because there is no way to send it to the Temple.
Will God not heal a person if they don't tithe to The Way International?
Not sure God will heal with just a tithe. Might not start until abundantly sharing or plurality giving.
Less than abundant sharing is the tithe, and for that God won't send you his spit, if I remember correctly. I'm assuming God's spit is what heals. Just rub it in.
Bolshevik, that was a serious question. ACCORDING TO TWI, you need to give them all your money or God won't help you. It's a system of paying protection money to a "God-Father" out of self-preservation and fear rather than giving cheerfully to a loving Father who loves you either way.
God is Good Always. Outside of twi, there's many happy Christians who aren't cowering in fear of God smiting them, or cowering in fear that God will let someone else smite them- all because they didn't donate enough money, or donate enough time, and so on. There's never an exact amount for "arriving" because twi has to keep moving the goalposts. Gave them all your time and money, and bad things STILL happened? Well, it's your fault still, so ANOTHER excuse is made up. The sun and the rain are for all people, and bad things happen to good even as good things happen to bad people. twi's system benefits twi and not the people.
I've seen some miraculous healing for people who never tithed to anyone, from people who don't tithe. So, healing is not dependent upon tithing. Taxidev addressed the tithe quite neatly above, so I won't get into specifics because I'll just repeat what he already said. Tithing was for Israel for a specific reason and specific circumstances (none of which apply now even to Israel.) Tithing was never mentioned in the Epistles as something we needed to do, and references in the Gospel were Jesus saying that people were doing it- it wasn't something Jesus went around teaching we had to do. He addressed it when it came up.
Not sure God will heal with just a tithe. Might not start until abundantly sharing or plurality giving.
Less than abundant sharing is the tithe, and for that God won't send you his spit, if I remember correctly. I'm assuming God's spit is what heals. Just rub it in.
Just to be clear, God will continue to spit whether you tithe or not. He just won't spit in your direction. Personally, I've never been all that keen on spit so maybe that's good news.
I recall LCM teaching somewhere...he said that God called it robbery if people didn't tithe in the OT, therefore...it must be grand larceny if people don't at least tithe in the grace administration. I believe his logic was flawed.
In the grace administration, we are absolutely NOT under law. If 5% or less is what someone can give cheerfully (as Wordwolf pointed out), then why wouldn't God honor that? I think He WOULD!
Not sure God will heal with just a tithe. Might not start until abundantly sharing or plurality giving.
Less than abundant sharing is the tithe, and for that God won't send you his spit, if I remember correctly. I'm assuming God's spit is what heals. Just rub it in.
So short answer is no.
I was crying just a second ago. I’m not going to explain. Good tears. To read all this.
On 10/30/2019 at 11:50 AM, Bolshevik said:
Not sure God will heal with just a tithe. Might not start until abundantly sharing or plurality giving.
Less than abundant sharing is the tithe, and for that God won't send you his spit, if I remember correctly. I'm assuming God's spit is what heals. Just rub it in.
So short answer is no.
I remembered what i was going to say, in a good way this time. Hey. Sometimes it happens. I wasn’t going to explain why tihs made mi cry….. but I should. I can’t sleep. And an alarm started going off when all I could think of to say was that the short answer is ALWAYS no. Because it has only two letters. Ha. Never thought of that one before. Ten is a good number. Twenty is a little more animalistic maybe, or just complete? But earlier yesterday we were listening to Joanna Newsom’s song Have One On Me. Titular track of the album. & listening & listening, loud as possible. I was not singing along, but we came to the line and i had to shout it in an angry monotone, so angry it came out: As If God Himself Spat Like A Cornered Rat. (In the line the songwriter is describing a shooting star she sees, I imagine, from a train taking her away from her wedding and to her honeymoon with her first husband. It resonated with me because it was… I went somewhere last summer. Made a hm humbl hanbleçi ya no ya ya vision quest ~ just to see if I Am was still with me. My life has REALLY unraveled since then and starting then although it’s not quite unraveling that’s the word. Has been marked by marks of failure. And awakening to my own lousiness, after executing it, it would seem. I’m a firstborn daughter raised at HQ by an Army vet with a troubled past and a quiet man, and peculiar and goofy, and his wife, the Registration tent lady, or one of them, I guess! Also goofy and self-deprecating and very cheerful. I don’t believe in C——-. But I went out there to see if the Great Spirit, whom I had encountered before on the Horseshoe Hill in a storm as I Am……. ah memory
I went out there and I was in the dark on the ground on night 1 of the fast ~ already exhausted from just doing the basic preparations and getting to the mountains. I was crouched down kneeling on the earth with my forearms on the earth staring intently at my pipe as i could barely see her in the dark. For a while. Just worshiping. I made a move with my hand to touch my pipe ~ I forget why ~ and suddenly a light that I thought was in the bowl lit up. It had been totally dark & then this round lil light glowed on. I quickly withdrew my hand without having touched, startled. I thought it was a spirit light but seems like it could have been a lightning bug. There were So many out there!!!!! I hadn’t stood up and turned around to see them yet. Or they hadn’t started. But it was In/sane Beauty. when I did. But at that time i was just crouched down there and that happened a light on my çanunpa, and then a minute later I was just still looking with a more “softened gaze” in that general direction and I saw a meteorite pass from point B to point A as we read in the big inky black sky full of stars over across the scenic overlook. So ~ uh ~ thank you ?!?!! Have also been thinking about camels. The Story of the Weeping Camel movie has been IN my heart so much lately. And I was writing about my landlady and i this afternoon…… how I spat back… but not in the mouth, ha. In the eye. Hoping I didn’t spit too hard, i said to my friends, who live not in spitting distance. I’m sorta new to GS and this is the first post I’ve read. Gratitude to all the minds & hearts & forums for gathering of spirits. <3
My study of this topic led me to believe that the New Testament strongly encourages generous giving without attaching a percentage to what qualifies as generous. There is no "at least." Your giving should be a reflection of your faith, your understanding of the Word, the extent to which you preach the word (in word or deed), your diligence in seeking the things of God, and your agape love.
Ten percent was never a standard of giving for the church.
Thankful that God heals and that it is not dependent on my "super powerful" believing. It's a load of pressure if you think you have to believe perfectly or you won't be healed.
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Guest JkNorth
Will God not heal a person if they don't tithe to The Way International?
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Taxidev
I was intrigued by this same issue, and so did some research on it. Some of my work is based on research by Ernest L. Martin (his work here), and some is from what I worked on my own. Following is a summary of what I found.
The Mosaic Law was very specific, the aspect of the tithe being no different. The tithe was instituted so that the tribe of Levi would be supported because they owned no property and could not raise crops or livestock. If you read the details of the tithe you'll see it specifies crops and animals. These tithes were to be brought to the Temple in Jerusalem and put into the storehouse. This was modified slightly, but basically that was it. In Malachi there is a description of them NOT doing this. There is no mention of contributing money even though there was money then; some people did work for money. The only time money is involved is if the person lives so far away from the Temple that it would be impractical to bring the animal or crop tithe. In that case, they were to sell their tithe, travel to the Temple, and then purchase the proper tithe. That was what the money changers, the ones Jesus drove out and threw down their tables, were there for. An important detail that is often missed or ignored was that this was for the nation of Israel only, not for the gentiles.
In the new testament Paul never mentions the tithe. The monetary sharing among the believers was on a local level, to those that had need. At one point Paul does help gather a large sharing for Jerusalem from among the believers in Corinth and the surrounding area, because there was a famine in Israel. This is done only once, and it is not referred to as a tithe.
There is actually less validity today for the tithe than there is for honoring the Passover. That's because the Passover meal isn't dependent on any conditions, so for a person still following the law honoring the Passover is okay. But the tithe is dependent on conditions. There is no longer a tribe of Levi conducting religious work at the Temple - there is no Temple. So to tithe as described in the Mosaic law is actually illegal today because there is no way to send it to the Temple.
I hope this helps.
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Bolshevik
Not sure God will heal with just a tithe. Might not start until abundantly sharing or plurality giving.
Less than abundant sharing is the tithe, and for that God won't send you his spit, if I remember correctly. I'm assuming God's spit is what heals. Just rub it in.
So short answer is no.
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WordWolf
Bolshevik, that was a serious question. ACCORDING TO TWI, you need to give them all your money or God won't help you. It's a system of paying protection money to a "God-Father" out of self-preservation and fear rather than giving cheerfully to a loving Father who loves you either way.
God is Good Always. Outside of twi, there's many happy Christians who aren't cowering in fear of God smiting them, or cowering in fear that God will let someone else smite them- all because they didn't donate enough money, or donate enough time, and so on. There's never an exact amount for "arriving" because twi has to keep moving the goalposts. Gave them all your time and money, and bad things STILL happened? Well, it's your fault still, so ANOTHER excuse is made up. The sun and the rain are for all people, and bad things happen to good even as good things happen to bad people. twi's system benefits twi and not the people.
I've seen some miraculous healing for people who never tithed to anyone, from people who don't tithe. So, healing is not dependent upon tithing. Taxidev addressed the tithe quite neatly above, so I won't get into specifics because I'll just repeat what he already said. Tithing was for Israel for a specific reason and specific circumstances (none of which apply now even to Israel.) Tithing was never mentioned in the Epistles as something we needed to do, and references in the Gospel were Jesus saying that people were doing it- it wasn't something Jesus went around teaching we had to do. He addressed it when it came up.
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Bolshevik
There are two questions. The first is doctrinal.
The second question leads one to accept a rather subjective product while discussing a separate topic.
Edited by Bolshevikgrammars
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Twinky
What TaxiDev said, which is exactly right.
I wasn't going to go there; opens too big a discussion for this Any Questions forum. Mods can move, of course, if the thread gets too busy.
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Rocky
Nicely done Bolshevik.
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waysider
Just to be clear, God will continue to spit whether you tithe or not. He just won't spit in your direction. Personally, I've never been all that keen on spit so maybe that's good news.
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johniam
I recall LCM teaching somewhere...he said that God called it robbery if people didn't tithe in the OT, therefore...it must be grand larceny if people don't at least tithe in the grace administration. I believe his logic was flawed.
In the grace administration, we are absolutely NOT under law. If 5% or less is what someone can give cheerfully (as Wordwolf pointed out), then why wouldn't God honor that? I think He WOULD!
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Quiet Colors
I was crying just a second ago. I’m not going to explain. Good tears. To read all this.
I remembered what i was going to say, in a good way this time. Hey. Sometimes it happens. I wasn’t going to explain why tihs made mi cry….. but I should. I can’t sleep. And an alarm started going off when all I could think of to say was that the short answer is ALWAYS no. Because it has only two letters. Ha. Never thought of that one before. Ten is a good number. Twenty is a little more animalistic maybe, or just complete? But earlier yesterday we were listening to Joanna Newsom’s song Have One On Me. Titular track of the album. & listening & listening, loud as possible. I was not singing along, but we came to the line and i had to shout it in an angry monotone, so angry it came out: As If God Himself Spat Like A Cornered Rat. (In the line the songwriter is describing a shooting star she sees, I imagine, from a train taking her away from her wedding and to her honeymoon with her first husband. It resonated with me because it was… I went somewhere last summer. Made a hm humbl hanbleçi ya no ya ya vision quest ~ just to see if I Am was still with me. My life has REALLY unraveled since then and starting then although it’s not quite unraveling that’s the word. Has been marked by marks of failure. And awakening to my own lousiness, after executing it, it would seem. I’m a firstborn daughter raised at HQ by an Army vet with a troubled past and a quiet man, and peculiar and goofy, and his wife, the Registration tent lady, or one of them, I guess! Also goofy and self-deprecating and very cheerful. I don’t believe in C——-. But I went out there to see if the Great Spirit, whom I had encountered before on the Horseshoe Hill in a storm as I Am……. ah memory
I went out there and I was in the dark on the ground on night 1 of the fast ~ already exhausted from just doing the basic preparations and getting to the mountains. I was crouched down kneeling on the earth with my forearms on the earth staring intently at my pipe as i could barely see her in the dark. For a while. Just worshiping. I made a move with my hand to touch my pipe ~ I forget why ~ and suddenly a light that I thought was in the bowl lit up. It had been totally dark & then this round lil light glowed on. I quickly withdrew my hand without having touched, startled. I thought it was a spirit light but seems like it could have been a lightning bug. There were So many out there!!!!! I hadn’t stood up and turned around to see them yet. Or they hadn’t started. But it was In/sane Beauty. when I did. But at that time i was just crouched down there and that happened a light on my çanunpa, and then a minute later I was just still looking with a more “softened gaze” in that general direction and I saw a meteorite pass from point B to point A as we read in the big inky black sky full of stars over across the scenic overlook. So ~ uh ~ thank you ?!?!! Have also been thinking about camels. The Story of the Weeping Camel movie has been IN my heart so much lately. And I was writing about my landlady and i this afternoon…… how I spat back… but not in the mouth, ha. In the eye. Hoping I didn’t spit too hard, i said to my friends, who live not in spitting distance. I’m sorta new to GS and this is the first post I’ve read. Gratitude to all the minds & hearts & forums for gathering of spirits. <3
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Raf
My study of this topic led me to believe that the New Testament strongly encourages generous giving without attaching a percentage to what qualifies as generous. There is no "at least." Your giving should be a reflection of your faith, your understanding of the Word, the extent to which you preach the word (in word or deed), your diligence in seeking the things of God, and your agape love.
Ten percent was never a standard of giving for the church.
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Cheri
God heals !!!!
it’s our believing that gets results , not $$ to TWI or “other” churches
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Rocky
God heals or our believing? Agree with you that $$ to TWI or "other" churches doesn't do it.
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Nathan_Jr
Required of whom? Required by whom?
In the context of Judeo-Christian ethics and traditions, Taxidev provides a succinct an accurate answer.
In the context of TWI, which is a swirling sea of bull$hit and error, Twinky and Bolshevik also delivered with concision and accuracy.
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penguin2
Thankful that God heals and that it is not dependent on my "super powerful" believing. It's a load of pressure if you think you have to believe perfectly or you won't be healed.
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