As top-tier corps/clergy (cough, cough) splinter from twi.......soon thereafter, some of wierwille's hard-core men desire to subjugate others with new, ongoing teachings, classes and weekends that you just can't miss [and the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round]. In the immortal words of The Church Lady from Saturday Night Live................"How Conveeenient."
Subjugate --- 1. to bring under control or subjection; conquer 2. to cause to become subservient; subdue
Looking back at wierwille's ministry and corps program........I believe that subjugating was the core of the corps program.
Wierwille did NOT design a "leadership program." THAT was all a deceptive tactic. Wierwille designed a FOLLOWship program wherein the youth were subjugated to his control.......and corps women were subjugated to his sexual predation!! He sat back and picked his prey. He targeted the innocent and vulnerable into his classes and programs. Isolation. Immersion. Intimidation. Indoctrination. Idolization.
Classes can have profit........or........classes can be steppingstones to indoctrination.
Already, we see that Rico has a foundational, intermediate and advanced class/course to offer. THEN.......how about a special weekend in Montana? Enjoy some hiking, fishing, kick-back relaxing and all. Is this good? Or, is this to get you to drop your guard.........and start the CULT PROGRAMMING all over again?
HOW does this happen AGAIN?
HOW does someone throw off the shackles of twi's hypocrisy and absolute power over the individual.......THEN, fall again into a splinter group that runs classes, demands tithing and claim that they are, indeed, the ones to follow? It nearly baffles the mind to see how some are so easily persuaded against their own will and better judgment to repeat the same cycle. Especially those who follow those corps "leaders" who are ADAMANT that wierwille was "the man of God" who walked by revelation. And, most notably.......those who pattern the SAME pyramid organization from afar, the SAME class structure, the SAME clichés and the SAME approach that "humble yourselves and our classes will answer your questions."
Are you someone who prefers the life of those institutionalized?
Once again, brother, you have nailed it.
How does this happen again? That's the ultimate underlying issue.
One way to look at possible answers to it is in this book.
WHY we fall for it EVERY time... until we choose not to be conned, which goes directly to whether we prefer to be led.
Another author, journalist Gail Sheehy published a book, 38-years ago, on finding one's own way, Pathfinders. Might be a good book for those tired of being led by wolves in sheep's clothing. Sheehy wrote a number of other books on subjects that can shed helpful insight. But what she doesn't do and hasn't done, is develop a series of classes that one must take to secure HER (the author's) living.
None of the insights from either Sheehy or Konnikova relieve the very real human need for belonging. The con artists Skyrider exquisitely described above grab hold of that human need and try to sell themselves as the answer to that need.
But if a person finds her/his own path, (s)he can also find others who share interests in the same or similar paths. That can make for a more fulfilling (self-actualizing) inner AND social life with great meaning.
As top-tier corps/clergy (cough, cough) splinter from twi.......soon thereafter, some of wierwille's hard-core men desire to subjugate others with new, ongoing teachings, classes and weekends that you just can't miss [and the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round]. In the immortal words of The Church Lady from Saturday Night Live................"How Conveeenient."
Subjugate --- 1. to bring under control or subjection; conquer 2. to cause to become subservient; subdue
Looking back at wierwille's ministry and corps program........I believe that subjugating was the core of the corps program.
Wierwille did NOT design a "leadership program." THAT was all a deceptive tactic. Wierwille designed a FOLLOWship program wherein the youth were subjugated to his control.......and corps women were subjugated to his sexual predation!! He sat back and picked his prey. He targeted the innocent and vulnerable into his classes and programs. Isolation. Immersion. Intimidation. Indoctrination. Idolization.
Classes can have profit........or........classes can be steppingstones to indoctrination.
Already, we see that Rico has a foundational, intermediate and advanced class/course to offer. THEN.......how about a special weekend in Montana? Enjoy some hiking, fishing, kick-back relaxing and all. Is this good? Or, is this to get you to drop your guard.........and start the CULT PROGRAMMING all over again?
HOW does this happen AGAIN?
HOW does someone throw off the shackles of twi's hypocrisy and absolute power over the individual.......THEN, fall again into a splinter group that runs classes, demands tithing and claim that they are, indeed, the ones to follow? It nearly baffles the mind to see how some are so easily persuaded against their own will and better judgment to repeat the same cycle. Especially those who follow those corps "leaders" who are ADAMANT that wierwille was "the man of God" who walked by revelation. And, most notably.......those who pattern the SAME pyramid organization from afar, the SAME class structure, the SAME clichés and the SAME approach that "humble yourselves and our classes will answer your questions."
Are you someone who prefers the life of those institutionalized?
Skyrider, good point on wierwille actually designing a follow-ship rather than a leadership program. So true! If a leader is supposed to have the vision for the direction of a group – wierwille certainly had that – but I think it was along the lines of everyone under his thumb doing it his way. His vision was a grand delusion of course.
20 hours ago, Rocky said:
Once again, brother, you have nailed it.
How does this happen again? That's the ultimate underlying issue.
One way to look at possible answers to it is in this book.
WHY we fall for it EVERY time... until we choose not to be conned, which goes directly to whether we prefer to be led.
Another author, journalist Gail Sheehy published a book, 38-years ago, on finding one's own way, Pathfinders. Might be a good book for those tired of being led by wolves in sheep's clothing. Sheehy wrote a number of other books on subjects that can shed helpful insight. But what she doesn't do and hasn't done, is develop a series of classes that one must take to secure HER (the author's) living.
None of the insights from either Sheehy or Konnikova relieve the very real human need for belonging. The con artists Skyrider exquisitely described above grab hold of that human need and try to sell themselves as the answer to that need.
But if a person finds her/his own path, (s)he can also find others who share interests in the same or similar paths. That can make for a more fulfilling (self-actualizing) inner AND social life with great meaning.
Anyway, thanks Skyrider for your salient post.
Rocky, thanks for the link to that article; some great points from it:
“A sense of belonging is a human need, just like the need for food and shelter. Feeling that you belong is most important in seeing value in life and in coping with intensely painful emotions. Some find belonging in a church, some with friends, some with family, and some on Twitter or other social media. Some see themselves as connected only to one or two people. Others believe and feel a connection to all people the world over, to humanity…
…A sense of belonging to a greater community improves your motivation, health, and happiness. When you see your connection to others, you know that all people struggle and have difficult times. You are not alone. There is comfort in that knowledge…One way to work on increasing your sense of belonging is to look for ways you are similar with others instead of focusing on ways you are different…Another way to build your own sense of belonging is to work on acceptance of others. To accept others and views that are not the same as yours may require that you open your thoughts to the idea that there is value in everyone's thinking…” from Psychology Today article
As the article indicates, our sense of belonging can be fulfilled in various ways. I can see how TWI and any controlling cult for that matter – can take advantage of that. Initially, I joined because it appeared to me this group had all the answers to any struggles in life.
But over time my autonomy was being chipped away – as I felt more and more pressured through groupthink and browbeating to accept TWI’s perspective and solutions for any struggles. Think about all those claims on the back of the PFAL class signup card – if you wanted more harmony in the home, or to increase your prosperity or whatever they listed – you come to find out sometime later after taking the class, they were just unsubstantiated claims and how ineffective and frustrating their solutions proved to be. And not just life struggles but stupid ridiculous time-wasting struggles – like having a hard time trying to get another PFAL class together.
TWI and offshoots appeal to one’s sense of belonging but over time start encroaching on one’s boundaries and self-governance; within the group one finds only a certain view is acceptable and only a certain class of people are acceptable – those in good standing with their group. They sort of turn around one's sense of belonging - almost like saying "now you belong to us." yeeeeccchhh !
How does this happen again? That's the ultimate underlying issue.
.......snip
WHY we fall for it EVERY time... until we choose not to be conned, which goes directly to whether we prefer to be led.
Another author, journalist Gail Sheehy published a book, 38-years ago, on finding one's own way, Pathfinders. Might be a good book for those tired of being led by wolves in sheep's clothing. Sheehy wrote a number of other books on subjects that can shed helpful insight. But what she doesn't do and hasn't done, is develop a series of classes that one must take to secure HER (the author's) living.
None of the insights from either Sheehy or Konnikova relieve the very real human need for belonging. The con artists Skyrider exquisitely described above grab hold of that human need and try to sell themselves as the answer to that need.
But if a person finds her/his own path, (s)he can also find others who share interests in the same or similar paths. That can make for a more fulfilling (self-actualizing) inner AND social life with great meaning.
Thanks Rocky.......lots of great insight.
There are plenty of ways to supplement this *very real human need for belonging* .......besides going to classes and parking one's butt in a chair. Look around and partake of the vast avenues of BELONGING to something bigger than self:
Community.......volunteer work, charity walks, habitat for humanity, red cross blood drives, committee involvement, parks and recreation, safety, etc
Religious...........bible study groups, choirs, programs, youth groups, children's activities, daycare, grieving and group participation, societal issues
Self....................golf outings, cards and game nights, book clubs, bowling league, bike club, 10-K runs/walks, get a dog and go to your nearest dog park
Academic..........take night classes at community college, attend lectures, go to World War II Museum, study different cultures, learn a new language
Hobbies.............find other enthusiasts of your particular interest, bee-keeping, woodworking, bird watching, kayaking, camping
You belong........get out there and find your true passions.
The world is a BIG and EXCITING SOCIAL EXPLORATION.......
Do NOT allow some little cult leader to coerce your butt in a chair......
When peer pressure and coercion is involved.......subjugating is not far behind.
There are plenty of ways to supplement this *very real human need for belonging* .......besides going to classes and parking one's butt in a chair. Look around and partake of the vast avenues of BELONGING to something bigger than self:
Community.......volunteer work, charity walks, habitat for humanity, red cross blood drives, committee involvement, parks and recreation, safety, etc
Religious...........bible study groups, choirs, programs, youth groups, children's activities, daycare, grieving and group participation, societal issues
Self....................golf outings, cards and game nights, book clubs, bowling league, bike club, 10-K runs/walks, get a dog and go to your nearest dog park
Academic..........take night classes at community college, attend lectures, go to World War II Museum, study different cultures, learn a new language
Hobbies.............find other enthusiasts of your particular interest, bee-keeping, woodworking, bird watching, kayaking, camping
You belong........get out there and find your true passions.
The world is a BIG and EXCITING SOCIAL EXPLORATION.......
Do NOT allow some little cult leader to coerce your butt in a chair......
When peer pressure and coercion is involved.......subjugating is not far behind.
And sometimes the coercion is extremely subtle. When/after we (no doubt unconsciously) decided/accepted that Wierwille was THE authority on how to interpret the Bible, we did no longer, if ever, challenge when he taught that we were a people separate and apart from other groups. We accepted that we did NOT BELONG to community organizations, other religions/denominations/ourselves/affinity groups (like bee-keeping clubs or bird watchers, etc.).
It didn't feel like coercion at first. But then we NEEDED the twi fellowships. And when we NEEDED them, we tolerated the abusive tactics/harassment.
We were GROOMED to be abused.
I appreciate your additional insight, brother Skyrider.
Looking back at wierwille's ministry and corps program........I believe that subjugating was the core of the corps program.
Was Wierwille's First-Failed Corps Program.......ie which vpw labeled the "zero corps" [to DEFLECT from his failure]........too heavy-handed [subjugating] on these young participants? I know that twi's damage-control narrative put all the onus on these young corps, but I ain't buying it. I think that wierwille went into this "training" like a charging bull......and these young whippersnappers pushed back on his bullsh!t.
And further.......subjugating being the core objective of the corps program, it adds more evidence as to why wierwille got so irritated and irate when corps walked away. He felt entitled to disparage the character and reputation of those who left.......they were "cop-outs."
In his narcissistic world, he was "The Teacher" and "his" people were to be subservient to him.
And, to this day.........how many splinter cults out there are ingrained with subjugating their followers? Structured with classes that take you from level A to level F (follower)...... even these classes depict what level of subservience you are at.
Already, we see that Rico has a foundational, intermediate and advanced class/course to offer. THEN.......how about a special weekend in Montana? Enjoy some hiking, fishing, kick-back relaxing and all. Is this good? Or, is this to get you to drop your guard.........and start the CULT PROGRAMMING all over again?
......
Gee........lookie here.
NOW......the R&R group is also planning to have a spend-time-with-us-in-nature's-playground extended weekend in June, 2020. You mean to tell me that these guys have FINALLY come to realize that always demanding butts in chairs NEEDS SOMETHING ELSE?
Does this help their agenda.......or, simply mask its intent?
~~~~~~~~~
The Mystery Living and Real: EPHESIANS
This Christian gathering is open to anyone who would like to enjoy a time of Biblical study, live music, outdoor activities, and fellowship with one another.
The focus of the event is seeing God’s plan for believers as members in particular to be joined together and function fully in the Body of Christ.
Stay awhile and take the opportunity to explore the gardens, hike, fish, bike, enjoy water sports, and much more.
Special room rates are available June 21-30, 2020
Save the Date
June 24-27, 2020
“Therefore, rejecting all falsity and being done now with it, let everyone express the truth with his neighbor, for we are all parts of one body and members one of another.” Ephesians 4:25 (Amplified)
Callaway Gardens
Callawaygardens.com
Pine Mountain, Georgia
Housing: Cottages, Lodge, Hotel Rooms, and Suites
Airport is: Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International
NOW......the R&R group is also planning to have a spend-time-with-us-in-nature's-playground extended weekend in June, 2020. You mean to tell me that these guys have FINALLY come to realize that always demanding butts in chairs NEEDS SOMETHING ELSE?
Does this help their agenda.......or, simply mask its intent?
~~~~~~~~~
The Mystery Living and Real: EPHESIANS
This Christian gathering is open to anyone who would like to enjoy a time of Biblical study, live music, outdoor activities, and fellowship with one another.
The focus of the event is seeing God’s plan for believers as members in particular to be joined together and function fully in the Body of Christ.
Stay awhile and take the opportunity to explore the gardens, hike, fish, bike, enjoy water sports, and much more.
Special room rates are available June 21-30, 2020
Save the Date
June 24-27, 2020
“Therefore, rejecting all falsity and being done now with it, let everyone express the truth with his neighbor, for we are all parts of one body and members one of another.” Ephesians 4:25 (Amplified)
Callaway Gardens
Callawaygardens.com
Pine Mountain, Georgia
Housing: Cottages, Lodge, Hotel Rooms, and Suites
Airport is: Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International
Registration Opens: January 1, 2020
How quaint! "Rejecting all falsity and being done with it now..."
This reminds me of Wierwille's snow story. Something to con them (without having to at all deal with rational arguments or objections that naturally come up to challenge this new premise) into believing that this group somehow, MYSTERIOUSLY, now knows the truth that they didn't know over the last 40 to 50 years. God's plan for believers to fully function in the Body of Christ?
If they hadn't had an ongoing failure of imagination, they might come up with something mind-blowingly distinct from the rut they've been in for (some of them) HALF a CENTURY.
If they were to do that, they'd have to shatter old assumptions about how they define some of the jargon they used in that advert/notice. But if they do that, will they risk losing a substantial percentage of the former twi folks they have grabbed onto since they left the "Household?"
In case anyone's wondering, the quote from the Amplified Bible is NOT a departure from vpw, it is right out of his playbook. The only difference is that they are admitting that's where its from (if not, a few seconds of a websearch would reveal it, of course.) vpw used to do "literal translations according to usage" that looked an awful lot like the Amplified Bible's rendering of the same verse. The best known is probably Philippians 4:13. vpw rendered it "I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him who infuses inner strength into me." (Sing along if you want, Acts 29 did a song including it, probably because they were told that was HIS rendering of the verse.)
13 I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me [I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me;[/u]
[/u]I am self-sufficient in Christ’s sufficiency]
I'm sure there's someone out there who's ready to say that both rendered it the same because both got Divine Revelation to do so, rather than vpw just lifting their work without attribution- which was the basis for his entire career, as we now know in these parts.
Edited by WordWolf Why can't I turn off the underlining?
Are they aware that the body of Christ includes ALL born again believers?
Heck, if they were aware, they could use that as justification for plagiarising. All part of the same body, so what belongs to one part belongs to all parts. Therefore, what that person worked out belongs equally to us, and we can pass it off as our own.
(I hasten to say I never heard this as an argument by VPW or TWI for plagiarising, but that might be because VPW never acknowledged that he pinched anybody else's work.)
One of our posters once insisted vpw never plagiarized. Then, once it was incredibly obvious he DID plagiarize, the poster went on to say that God Almighty either gave vpw the same material He gave others, so it was God Almighty who apparently plagiarized. Then he switched to "but we're all God's Children so God authorized him to plagiarize it and it was OK because it all belonged to God so He could authorize plagiarizing it." So, it would not surprise me if somebody tried that, somewhere.
One of our posters once insisted vpw never plagiarized. Then, once it was incredibly obvious he DID plagiarize, the poster went on to say that God Almighty either gave vpw the same material He gave others, so it was God Almighty who apparently plagiarized. Then he switched to "but we're all God's Children so God authorized him to plagiarize it and it was OK because it all belonged to God so He could authorize plagiarizing it." So, it would not surprise me if somebody tried that, somewhere.
How incredibly human. It seems a similar pattern has been identified in current affairs in the news lately. But I won't go into the current affairs situation. But yes, that looks like rationalization.
Rationalizationis an unconsciousdefense mechanismin which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are logically justified and explained in a rational or logical manner in order to avoid any true explanation, and are made consciously tolerable – or even admirable and superior – by plausible means.[1]Rationalization encourages irrational or unacceptable behavior, motives, or feelings and often involvesad hoc hypothesizing. This process ranges from fullyconscious(e.g. to present an external defense against ridicule from others) to mostlysubconscious(e.g. to create a block against internalfeelings, for exampleguiltorshame).
It was. The poster's entire "raison d'etre" was to start from the position that vpw was always correct and was God Almighty's Chosen Mouthpiece. From there, it followed that anything Bible-related vpw did was done with the approval of God Almighty, and usually by His direct instruction. So, that meant God Almighty endorsed the most ridiculous BS. When the BS piled up, things changed to vpw still being the Chosen Mouthpiece, but occasionally making errors, and the occasional errors were gigantic because he was such a titan of a person while he walked the earth that both his good deeds and his evil deeds topped the scales. I SWEAR I'm not exaggerating. If anything, I'm understating it.
This Christian gathering is open to anyone who would like to enjoy a time of Biblical study, live music, outdoor activities, and fellowship with one another.
The focus of the event is seeing God’s plan for believers as members in particular to be joined together and function fully in the Body of Christ.
Stay awhile and take the opportunity to explore the gardens, hike, fish, bike, enjoy water sports, and much more.
Special room rates are available June 21-30, 2020
Save the Date
June 24-27, 2020
Perhaps, when this Revival and Restoration Group of corps and followers get together next June......they will study wierwille's old corps notes, pontifications and "prophecies" that he made over the years. Since wierwille was their Patriarch.......his life and legacy is worth studying, right?
Blood Lines Matter .........Many of us heard the great swelling words of wierwille's ancestry, heritage and legacy during those campfire settings. That's when, many times, the full-throated bravado came forth. Wouldn't it be good to review this wierwille heritage during this Georgia outing? Detail the bloodline and how God is working thru the ages to bring about his deliverance via the wierwille bloodline and wierwille ministry, right?
Johann Heinrich Wierwille (1792-1889)
Herman Heinrich Adolph Wierwille (1828-1887)
Henry Ernst Wierwille (1875-1956)
Victor Paul Wierwille (1916-1985)
Donald Ernst Wierwille (1940-2000) .....[passed over for LCM-ministry & leadership]
.....Loy Craig Martindale (1948- ) .....[given mantle.....but ousted from twi]
.....Luke Summerv!ille ............................[false prophecy, never twi's 3rd president]
.....Rosalie Fox Shumate Rivenbark ..... [took over as twi's 3rd president]
...........where did all the wierwilles go?
............why did the legacy fall flat?
Many of us sat for HOURS AND HOURS listening to victor paul wierwille ramble on about the wierwille legacy. Dotsie writes a book and fluffs up the first paragraph with bloviating wierwille ancestry. All of it went SPLAT.
Will the Real Victor Paul Wierwille please stand up.....er, come clean.
Will the former corps coordinators please explain their complicity in this fraud?
I was so bored with all the Wierwille legacy stuff. I didn't understand what that had to do with God's Word. Or why a Wierwille was any more important in the body of Christ than the rest of us.
I was so bored with all the Wierwille legacy stuff. I didn't understand what that had to do with God's Word. Or why a Wierwille was any more important in the body of Christ than the rest of us.
Outie......I know. Teaching this wierwille-legacy to the corps was adding leaven to the wierwille doctrine, right?
I suppose there are many ways to explain this.......but I see it as cunning craftiness and sleight of men. In other words, this wierwille legacy stuff was IN DIRECT CONFLICT with what true ministers in the church should be teaching and advancing. Namely, true apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors or teachers DO NOT advance or carry doctrine that disrupts the unity of the faith, the knowledge of the Son of God. [Ephesians 4:11-14]
And further.....corps coordinators like Moynihans, Forts, and Horneys were complicit in these "winds of doctrine."
The corps training.....which I often refer to as corps indoctrination.....had a "green thread" of *wierwille allegiance* running thru this training/tapestry. As best I can tell, it picked up steam after Harry died in the Fall of 1977 and wierwille's days were counting down. His narcissistic visions of self and legacy were of utmost importance.......and thus, the corps coordinators were given their marching orders as well. Then with wierwille's failing health.....it's time to designate a successor to the throne (cough, cough) and herald the October 1982 date as the 40th Anniversary (cough, cough) of his presidency and reign, and step down.
The corps program was indoctrinating followers towards unbridled adulation for victor paul wierwille.
The corps coordinators were cheerleaders of this counterfeit message.
TODAY.......lots of these guys run splinter groups. The subtle messaging is STILL THERE.
The Wierwille Mystique is still there..........hiding in plain sight.
Thus......many splinters are following an Anti-Christ message.
The corps training.....which I often refer to as corps indoctrination.....had a "green thread" of *wierwille allegiance* running thru this training/tapestry. As best I can tell, it picked up steam after Harry died in the Fall of 1977 and wierwille's days were counting down. His narcissistic visions of self and legacy were of utmost importance.......and thus, the corps coordinators were given their marching orders as well. Then with wierwille's failing health.....it's time to designate a successor to the throne (cough, cough) and herald the October 1982 date as the 40th Anniversary (cough, cough) of his presidency and reign, and step down.
The corps program was indoctrinating followers towards unbridled adulation for victor paul wierwille.
How right you are. One doesn't need an advanced degree in psychology to recognize how Wierwille personified narcissism. One also doesn't need to spend much time reviewing the dark history of his ministry in order to find parallels to Paul's admonition to Timothy regarding what was the actual root of all evil.
What Are the Traits of a Narcissist?
It’s easy to slap the “narcissist” label on someone who spends a bit too much time talking about hercareeror who never seems to doubt himself, but narcissism is more complicated than it may seem: It’s not a surplus ofself-esteem, but more accurately encompasses ahungerfor appreciation or admiration, a sense of specialness and a desire to be the center of attention, and an expectation of special treatment reflecting perceived higher status.
How right you are. One doesn't need an advanced degree in psychology to recognize how Wierwille personified narcissism. One also doesn't need to spend much time reviewing the dark history of his ministry in order to find parallels to Paul's admonition to Timothy regarding what was the actual root of all evil.
...........
Yes, Rocky.........personified narcissism.
But also.....I would add wantonness to describe this as well.
For those who adhere to Christian theology and doctrine...... II Peter 2:18,19 gives a succinct glimpse of wierwille's spiritual state at that time.
II Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. II Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
Now......they are in the process of promoting a camp get-together next June.
Then.....they will establish hierarchy in the group and push for a central location.
Even though I walked away from them, I must disagree with you. First, they've been doing large gatherings since their first year. I know a few people who have gone and it was just like a huge limb meeting, with pre-designated teachers. I didn't bother going.
Second, I have yet to get any indication that they want a "central location", just like they don't want anyone's money. You are speculating unless, of course, you have received revelation that they are intending to do that.
My statements do not, in any way, mean I now support them. But just as I have defended a certain politician, who I can't stand, I also defend them, who I have no interest in.
Even though I walked away from them, I must disagree with you. First, they've been doing large gatherings since their first year. I know a few people who have gone and it was just like a huge limb meeting, with pre-designated teachers. I didn't bother going.
Second, I have yet to get any indication that they want a "central location", just like they don't want anyone's money. You are speculating unless, of course, you have received revelation that they are intending to do that.
My statements do not, in any way, mean I now support them. But just as I have defended a certain politician, who I can't stand, I also defend them, who I have no interest in.
Wow! You seem to have been in quite the contrarian mood today.
"You are speculating..." since you didn't even bother going.
Have you ever considered that there is often (usually) more than one way to look at any given situation? And how certain are you that the situation (highlighted above in the quote of your comment) is only either/or?
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
12
14
10
4
Popular Days
Jul 20
5
May 23
5
May 24
4
Nov 2
4
Top Posters In This Topic
skyrider 12 posts
Rocky 14 posts
WordWolf 10 posts
T-Bone 4 posts
Popular Days
Jul 20 2020
5 posts
May 23 2020
5 posts
May 24 2020
4 posts
Nov 2 2019
4 posts
Popular Posts
skyrider
As top-tier corps/clergy (cough, cough) splinter from twi.......soon thereafter, some of wierwille's hard-core men desire to subjugate others with new, ongoing teachings, classes and weekends that yo
skyrider
Thanks Rocky.......lots of great insight. There are plenty of ways to supplement this *very real human need for belonging* .......besides going to classes and parking one's butt in a chair. Look
WordWolf
For those arriving late, this was a quote from MRS WIERWILLE, at vpw's FUNERAL.
Rocky
Once again, brother, you have nailed it.
How does this happen again? That's the ultimate underlying issue.
One way to look at possible answers to it is in this book.
WHY we fall for it EVERY time... until we choose not to be conned, which goes directly to whether we prefer to be led.
Another author, journalist Gail Sheehy published a book, 38-years ago, on finding one's own way, Pathfinders. Might be a good book for those tired of being led by wolves in sheep's clothing. Sheehy wrote a number of other books on subjects that can shed helpful insight. But what she doesn't do and hasn't done, is develop a series of classes that one must take to secure HER (the author's) living.
None of the insights from either Sheehy or Konnikova relieve the very real human need for belonging. The con artists Skyrider exquisitely described above grab hold of that human need and try to sell themselves as the answer to that need.
But if a person finds her/his own path, (s)he can also find others who share interests in the same or similar paths. That can make for a more fulfilling (self-actualizing) inner AND social life with great meaning.
Anyway, thanks Skyrider for your salient post.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Skyrider, good point on wierwille actually designing a follow-ship rather than a leadership program. So true! If a leader is supposed to have the vision for the direction of a group – wierwille certainly had that – but I think it was along the lines of everyone under his thumb doing it his way. His vision was a grand delusion of course.
Rocky, thanks for the link to that article; some great points from it:
“A sense of belonging is a human need, just like the need for food and shelter. Feeling that you belong is most important in seeing value in life and in coping with intensely painful emotions. Some find belonging in a church, some with friends, some with family, and some on Twitter or other social media. Some see themselves as connected only to one or two people. Others believe and feel a connection to all people the world over, to humanity…
…A sense of belonging to a greater community improves your motivation, health, and happiness. When you see your connection to others, you know that all people struggle and have difficult times. You are not alone. There is comfort in that knowledge…One way to work on increasing your sense of belonging is to look for ways you are similar with others instead of focusing on ways you are different…Another way to build your own sense of belonging is to work on acceptance of others. To accept others and views that are not the same as yours may require that you open your thoughts to the idea that there is value in everyone's thinking…” from Psychology Today article
As the article indicates, our sense of belonging can be fulfilled in various ways. I can see how TWI and any controlling cult for that matter – can take advantage of that. Initially, I joined because it appeared to me this group had all the answers to any struggles in life.
But over time my autonomy was being chipped away – as I felt more and more pressured through groupthink and browbeating to accept TWI’s perspective and solutions for any struggles. Think about all those claims on the back of the PFAL class signup card – if you wanted more harmony in the home, or to increase your prosperity or whatever they listed – you come to find out sometime later after taking the class, they were just unsubstantiated claims and how ineffective and frustrating their solutions proved to be. And not just life struggles but stupid ridiculous time-wasting struggles – like having a hard time trying to get another PFAL class together.
TWI and offshoots appeal to one’s sense of belonging but over time start encroaching on one’s boundaries and self-governance; within the group one finds only a certain view is acceptable and only a certain class of people are acceptable – those in good standing with their group. They sort of turn around one's sense of belonging - almost like saying "now you belong to us." yeeeeccchhh !
well said, Skyrider - subdued.
Edited by T-Boneformatting
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Thanks Rocky.......lots of great insight.
There are plenty of ways to supplement this *very real human need for belonging* .......besides going to classes and parking one's butt in a chair. Look around and partake of the vast avenues of BELONGING to something bigger than self:
The world is a BIG and EXCITING SOCIAL EXPLORATION.......
Do NOT allow some little cult leader to coerce your butt in a chair......
When peer pressure and coercion is involved.......subjugating is not far behind.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
And sometimes the coercion is extremely subtle. When/after we (no doubt unconsciously) decided/accepted that Wierwille was THE authority on how to interpret the Bible, we did no longer, if ever, challenge when he taught that we were a people separate and apart from other groups. We accepted that we did NOT BELONG to community organizations, other religions/denominations/ourselves/affinity groups (like bee-keeping clubs or bird watchers, etc.).
It didn't feel like coercion at first. But then we NEEDED the twi fellowships. And when we NEEDED them, we tolerated the abusive tactics/harassment.
We were GROOMED to be abused.
I appreciate your additional insight, brother Skyrider.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Was Wierwille's First-Failed Corps Program.......ie which vpw labeled the "zero corps" [to DEFLECT from his failure]........too heavy-handed [subjugating] on these young participants? I know that twi's damage-control narrative put all the onus on these young corps, but I ain't buying it. I think that wierwille went into this "training" like a charging bull......and these young whippersnappers pushed back on his bullsh!t.
And further.......subjugating being the core objective of the corps program, it adds more evidence as to why wierwille got so irritated and irate when corps walked away. He felt entitled to disparage the character and reputation of those who left.......they were "cop-outs."
In his narcissistic world, he was "The Teacher" and "his" people were to be subservient to him.
And, to this day.........how many splinter cults out there are ingrained with subjugating their followers? Structured with classes that take you from level A to level F (follower)...... even these classes depict what level of subservience you are at.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Gee........lookie here.
NOW......the R&R group is also planning to have a spend-time-with-us-in-nature's-playground extended weekend in June, 2020. You mean to tell me that these guys have FINALLY come to realize that always demanding butts in chairs NEEDS SOMETHING ELSE?
Does this help their agenda.......or, simply mask its intent?
~~~~~~~~~
The Mystery Living and Real: EPHESIANS
This Christian gathering is open to anyone who would like to enjoy a time of Biblical study, live music, outdoor activities, and fellowship with one another.
The focus of the event is seeing God’s plan for believers as members in particular to be joined together and function fully in the Body of Christ.
Stay awhile and take the opportunity to explore the gardens, hike, fish, bike, enjoy water sports, and much more.
Special room rates are available June 21-30, 2020
Save the Date
June 24-27, 2020
“Therefore, rejecting all falsity and being done now with it, let everyone express the truth with his neighbor, for we are all parts of one body and members one of another.” Ephesians 4:25 (Amplified)
Callaway Gardens
Callawaygardens.com
Pine Mountain, Georgia
Housing: Cottages, Lodge, Hotel Rooms, and Suites
Airport is: Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International
Registration Opens: January 1, 2020
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Remember........wierwille used Summer Camps to groom his followers BEFORE the corps program.
Just saying......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
How quaint! "Rejecting all falsity and being done with it now..."
This reminds me of Wierwille's snow story. Something to con them (without having to at all deal with rational arguments or objections that naturally come up to challenge this new premise) into believing that this group somehow, MYSTERIOUSLY, now knows the truth that they didn't know over the last 40 to 50 years. God's plan for believers to fully function in the Body of Christ?
If they hadn't had an ongoing failure of imagination, they might come up with something mind-blowingly distinct from the rut they've been in for (some of them) HALF a CENTURY.
If they were to do that, they'd have to shatter old assumptions about how they define some of the jargon they used in that advert/notice. But if they do that, will they risk losing a substantial percentage of the former twi folks they have grabbed onto since they left the "Household?"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
In case anyone's wondering, the quote from the Amplified Bible is NOT a departure from vpw, it is right out of his playbook. The only difference is that they are admitting that's where its from (if not, a few seconds of a websearch would reveal it, of course.) vpw used to do "literal translations according to usage" that looked an awful lot like the Amplified Bible's rendering of the same verse. The best known is probably Philippians 4:13. vpw rendered it "I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him who infuses inner strength into me." (Sing along if you want, Acts 29 did a song including it, probably because they were told that was HIS rendering of the verse.)
Philippians 4:13 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
13 I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me [I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me;[/u]
[/u]I am self-sufficient in Christ’s sufficiency]
I'm sure there's someone out there who's ready to say that both rendered it the same because both got Divine Revelation to do so, rather than vpw just lifting their work without attribution- which was the basis for his entire career, as we now know in these parts.
Why can't I turn off the underlining?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
Are they aware that the body of Christ includes ALL born again believers?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Define "aware."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Heck, if they were aware, they could use that as justification for plagiarising. All part of the same body, so what belongs to one part belongs to all parts. Therefore, what that person worked out belongs equally to us, and we can pass it off as our own.
(I hasten to say I never heard this as an argument by VPW or TWI for plagiarising, but that might be because VPW never acknowledged that he pinched anybody else's work.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
One of our posters once insisted vpw never plagiarized. Then, once it was incredibly obvious he DID plagiarize, the poster went on to say that God Almighty either gave vpw the same material He gave others, so it was God Almighty who apparently plagiarized. Then he switched to "but we're all God's Children so God authorized him to plagiarize it and it was OK because it all belonged to God so He could authorize plagiarizing it." So, it would not surprise me if somebody tried that, somewhere.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
How incredibly human. It seems a similar pattern has been identified in current affairs in the news lately. But I won't go into the current affairs situation. But yes, that looks like rationalization.
Rationalization is an unconscious defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are logically justified and explained in a rational or logical manner in order to avoid any true explanation, and are made consciously tolerable – or even admirable and superior – by plausible means.[1] Rationalization encourages irrational or unacceptable behavior, motives, or feelings and often involves ad hoc hypothesizing. This process ranges from fully conscious (e.g. to present an external defense against ridicule from others) to mostly subconscious (e.g. to create a block against internal feelings, for example guilt or shame).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
It was. The poster's entire "raison d'etre" was to start from the position that vpw was always correct and was God Almighty's Chosen Mouthpiece. From there, it followed that anything Bible-related vpw did was done with the approval of God Almighty, and usually by His direct instruction. So, that meant God Almighty endorsed the most ridiculous BS. When the BS piled up, things changed to vpw still being the Chosen Mouthpiece, but occasionally making errors, and the occasional errors were gigantic because he was such a titan of a person while he walked the earth that both his good deeds and his evil deeds topped the scales. I SWEAR I'm not exaggerating. If anything, I'm understating it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Perhaps, when this Revival and Restoration Group of corps and followers get together next June......they will study wierwille's old corps notes, pontifications and "prophecies" that he made over the years. Since wierwille was their Patriarch.......his life and legacy is worth studying, right?
Blood Lines Matter .........Many of us heard the great swelling words of wierwille's ancestry, heritage and legacy during those campfire settings. That's when, many times, the full-throated bravado came forth. Wouldn't it be good to review this wierwille heritage during this Georgia outing? Detail the bloodline and how God is working thru the ages to bring about his deliverance via the wierwille bloodline and wierwille ministry, right?
Donald Ernst Wierwille(1940-2000) .....[passed over for LCM-ministry & leadership]Loy Craig Martindale(1948- ) .....[given mantle.....but ousted from twi]Luke Summerv!ille............................[false prophecy, never twi's 3rd president]Rosalie Fox Shumate Rivenbark..... [took over as twi's 3rd president]Many of us sat for HOURS AND HOURS listening to victor paul wierwille ramble on about the wierwille legacy. Dotsie writes a book and fluffs up the first paragraph with bloviating wierwille ancestry. All of it went SPLAT.
Will the Real Victor Paul Wierwille please
stand up.....er, come clean.Will the former corps coordinators please explain their complicity in this fraud?
Next June would be a good time to come clean.......with Georgia on my mind.
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
I was so bored with all the Wierwille legacy stuff. I didn't understand what that had to do with God's Word. Or why a Wierwille was any more important in the body of Christ than the rest of us.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Likewise,Outie.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Outie......I know. Teaching this wierwille-legacy to the corps was adding leaven to the wierwille doctrine, right?
I suppose there are many ways to explain this.......but I see it as cunning craftiness and sleight of men. In other words, this wierwille legacy stuff was IN DIRECT CONFLICT with what true ministers in the church should be teaching and advancing. Namely, true apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors or teachers DO NOT advance or carry doctrine that disrupts the unity of the faith, the knowledge of the Son of God. [Ephesians 4:11-14]
And further.....corps coordinators like Moynihans, Forts, and Horneys were complicit in these "winds of doctrine."
The corps training.....which I often refer to as corps indoctrination.....had a "green thread" of *wierwille allegiance* running thru this training/tapestry. As best I can tell, it picked up steam after Harry died in the Fall of 1977 and wierwille's days were counting down. His narcissistic visions of self and legacy were of utmost importance.......and thus, the corps coordinators were given their marching orders as well. Then with wierwille's failing health.....it's time to designate a successor to the throne (cough, cough) and herald the October 1982 date as the 40th Anniversary (cough, cough) of his presidency and reign, and step down.
The corps program was indoctrinating followers towards unbridled adulation for victor paul wierwille.
The corps coordinators were cheerleaders of this counterfeit message.
TODAY.......lots of these guys run splinter groups. The subtle messaging is STILL THERE.
The Wierwille Mystique is still there..........hiding in plain sight.
Thus......many splinters are following an Anti-Christ message.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
How right you are. One doesn't need an advanced degree in psychology to recognize how Wierwille personified narcissism. One also doesn't need to spend much time reviewing the dark history of his ministry in order to find parallels to Paul's admonition to Timothy regarding what was the actual root of all evil.
What Are the Traits of a Narcissist?
It’s easy to slap the “narcissist” label on someone who spends a bit too much time talking about her career or who never seems to doubt himself, but narcissism is more complicated than it may seem: It’s not a surplus of self-esteem, but more accurately encompasses a hunger for appreciation or admiration, a sense of specialness and a desire to be the center of attention, and an expectation of special treatment reflecting perceived higher status.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Yes, Rocky.........personified narcissism.
But also.....I would add wantonness to describe this as well.
For those who adhere to Christian theology and doctrine...... II Peter 2:18,19 gives a succinct glimpse of wierwille's spiritual state at that time.
To the Very End.......Wierwille's Wantonness ........
Succinct and poignant.
.
Edited by skyridertypo
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Right before our very eyes......we see the Revival and Restoration Group Phasing in a Splinter.
Voila......phasing in a splinter in 3 easy steps.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Taxidev
Even though I walked away from them, I must disagree with you. First, they've been doing large gatherings since their first year. I know a few people who have gone and it was just like a huge limb meeting, with pre-designated teachers. I didn't bother going.
Second, I have yet to get any indication that they want a "central location", just like they don't want anyone's money. You are speculating unless, of course, you have received revelation that they are intending to do that.
My statements do not, in any way, mean I now support them. But just as I have defended a certain politician, who I can't stand, I also defend them, who I have no interest in.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Wow! You seem to have been in quite the contrarian mood today.
"You are speculating..." since you didn't even bother going.
Have you ever considered that there is often (usually) more than one way to look at any given situation? And how certain are you that the situation (highlighted above in the quote of your comment) is only either/or?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.