Thisforum is an experiment. We will decide whether it is constructive based on how it progresses.
The idea is simple: If you have a question about The Way International, past present or future, this is the place to ask.
Due to the nature of this forum, we reserve the right to revisit the issue of who can ask and answer questions. For now, you do NOT need to be registered with GSC to ask a question. You DO have to be registered with GSC to answer and to respond to answers.
ALL QUESTIONS have to be approved by moderators. Answers do not.
Answers are not to be considered official statements from GSC, its owners or moderators.
The standard rules of GSC apply: No namecalling, no "outing" people, no libel/slander, etc.
The moderators and owners of GSC will not disclose the IP addresses of those who post here unless legally necessary (don't make threats, and we should all be happy).
To clarify for those reading the responses to this question: it was originally posted as "Are you all unbelievers?" A similar question was asked by a guest, so I changed this one to make it more clear that this thread is an explanation of what we're attempting here.
I'm not really sure what the question is but here is my take on the "TWI experience".
What affected me most and continues to affect me to a lesser degree, was not so much what I believe(d), but rather the dynamics of the lifestyle we tried to live. I mean, FellowLaborers was essentially an experiment in the commune lifestyle, using religion as a pretext. (Minus the sex, drugs and Rock and Roll) People are all over the charts on their religious/spiritual beliefs but the thing we all have in common is we tried to live a contrived lifestyle. We were all affected in our own ways, some to a minimal degree, some profoundly. Make no mistake, though, we were all affected.
Hi waysider. The idea behind his subforum is for anyone, ANYONE, to ask questions about us and about TWI. We can answer if we want. We can ASK if we want. It's like a little more explicit in its format than the average thread. Hopefully people will find it useful. If not, we scrap it and no harm done.
This forum is an experiment. We will decide whether it is constructive based on how it progresses.
The idea is simple: If you have a question about The Way International, past present or future, this is the place to ask.
Due to the nature of this forum, we reserve the right to revisit the issue of who can ask and answer questions.
But for now, let's see how it works.
[The moderators and owners of GSC will not disclose the IP addresses of those who post here unless legally necessary -- don't make threats, and we should all be happy].
In the interest of transparency, we ask guests to identify themselves either by name or by a consistent username we can all refer back to. (In other words, if you don't want to tell us who you are, fine. But at least come back with the same "fake" name when you return, like WierwilleDale or something).
When I checked this morning, I had the button allowing me to post a question while logged out, and the thread showed the button allowing me to reply. So, in theory, someone can post a question to us without logging in, or reply to one. Obviously, the staff will be watching for potential vandalism, so this is (also obviously) an "experiment." There may be no problems, or one fool may ruin things for everyone as staff has to delete their stuff immediately. We'll all have to wait and see what happens.
According to TWI's definition of unbeliver, I am one. A rank one. Currently practicing a combination of Catholicism, Buddhism, and Paganism. I can't say I have held on to any of the core beliefs of TWI. They all dropped off as I picked them up and examined them once I was outside of the group. I do still hold on to the memories of the beliefs, and I have found it has given me a lot of empathy for others who follow belief systems (religious and political) that I do not subscribe to. I feel that I have become more of who I really am in the process - not someone who is watching myself do things according to how someone else has told me it should be done, but instead living in the present moment, comfortable in my own being, knowing my decisions are my own to make.
I base my belief now on the simple "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself" with the definition of neighbor being all humanity instead of the narrow view of "the Household of Zion."
Like Java Jane said - if you subscribe to TWI’s definition then I too am an unbeliever. However, I’ve taken up a more active role in my evolving belief system. I look at life as a journey. Raised Roman Catholic but at a critical juncture in my young life I chose to join TWI. Initially, I felt I was in the driver’s seat. But after years and years of programs, meetings, adopting a certain mindset and thinking I was serving God – most of my “motoring” skills took a back seat. If life is a journey - then this portion of the trip I was taken for a ride.
Why did I leave TWI? Maybe it was something like watching a train wreck in slow-motion…me slowly coming to the realization that there was something morally wrong with the whole thing. My beef is not over theology or some particular doctrine. I mean, if you look at the Pharisees in Jesus’ day – they may have had a tight theological system (whatever that is) but morally there was such dark overgrown jungle-like stain on their hearts that they often received Jesus’ most vehement criticism.
I would describe myself as a believer – with the Bible and the basics of Christianity as part of my moral compass on this journey of faith.
For anyone considering getting involved with The Way, or if you are and you're having doubts about the group, consider this. It is information you may not have already:
That's enough for me to categorize the current organization as corrupt. Its roots in Wierwille are rotten. Their current "tree" cannot be any good no matter how "nice" any followers might be.
Many of us had first-hand experience with the authoritarian, narcissistic, predatory, abusive plagiarist named Victor Paul Wierwille. We know that he stole most of his teachings that are found on tapes and in his books. Many of those are still used today, or tweaked, or slanted this way or that.
We know the women he seduced and raped and silenced. We know the emotional abuse he inflicted on anyone who questioned him. We now understand how cults work and how they make extensive efforts to hide their corrupt histories like the one The Way has and cannot escape. We know that no matter how many fresh coats of paint you slather over filth, the filth is still underneath.
To any followers of this organization: ask where the money goes. Ask where the power lies. Ask what happens if you leave the group. Ask what happens if you disagree with the ideology. Think for yourself.
For anyone considering getting involved with The Way, or if you are and you're having doubts about the group, consider this. It is information you may not have already:
That's enough for me to categorize the current organization as corrupt. Its roots in Wierwille are rotten. Their current "tree" cannot be any good no matter how "nice" any followers might be.
Many of us had first-hand experience with the authoritarian, narcissistic, predatory, abusive plagiarist named Victor Paul Wierwille. We know that he stole most of his teachings that are found on tapes and in his books. Many of those are still used today, or tweaked, or slanted this way or that.
We know the women he seduced and raped and silenced. We know the emotional abuse he inflicted on anyone who questioned him. We now understand how cults work and how they make extensive efforts to hide their corrupt histories like the one The Way has and cannot escape. We know that no matter how many fresh coats of paint you slather over filth, the filth is still underneath.
To any followers of this organization: ask where the money goes. Ask where the power lies. Ask what happens if you leave the group. Ask what happens if you disagree with the ideology. Think for yourself.
This forum is an experiment. We will decide whether it is constructive based on how it progresses.
The idea is simple: If you have a question about The Way International, past present or future, this is the place to ask.
Due to the nature of this forum, we reserve the right to revisit the issue of who can ask and answer questions.
But for now, let's see how it works.
[The moderators and owners of GSC will not disclose the IP addresses of those who post here unless legally necessary -- don't make threats, and we should all be happy].
In the interest of transparency, we ask guests to identify themselves either by name or by a consistent username we can all refer back to. (In other words, if you don't want to tell us who you are, fine. But at least come back with the same "fake" name when you return, like WierwilleDale or something).
I find it very difficult to know that this thread even exists for someone new to GSC. I've been here for a while now and never even paid attention to the "Ask the Greasepot Cafe" link that shows under "About the Way." I went straight to "About the Way" from day one. I didn't know about until penworks' post of today.
Is it not possible to have a sub forum called "Ask About the Way" with a description similar to "If you have a question about The Way International, past present or future, this is the place to ask?"
I'm curious what sort of jargon is currently being used at TWI. We had things like "I'm believing for it.", SIT more." and "We sure do love you." What catch phrases could you expect current followers to be using?
Many of us had first-hand experience with the authoritarian, narcissistic, predatory, abusive plagiarist named Victor Paul Wierwille. We know that he stole most of his teachings that are found on tapes and in his books. Many of those are still used today, or tweaked, or slanted this way or that.
We know the women he seduced and raped and silenced. We know the emotional abuse he inflicted on anyone who questioned him. We now understand how cults work and how they make extensive efforts to hide their corrupt histories like the one The Way has and cannot escape. We know that no matter how many fresh coats of paint you slather over filth, the filth is still underneath.
To any followers of this organization: ask where the money goes. Ask where the power lies. Ask what happens if you leave the group. Ask what happens if you disagree with the ideology. Think for yourself.
Steven Hassan Ph.D. after years of focused study of cults came up with the BITE model for assessing whether the group was a cult or not.
Behavior
Information (control thereof)... I took the PFLAP class 49+ years ago. I still remember Victor Wierwille instructing students to NOT read anything but materials produced by TWI. He cleverly couched that directive in temporal terms in that class. IF you will ONLY read the bible and TWI materials for several months...
Thought
Emotion
Bottom-line: like Penworks pointed out, it does matter where the money they'll ask you to donate goes and what they do with it. But it's really so much more. Penworks, in her memoir UNDERTOW demonstrated how it was far more insidious than just keeping their use of donations secret.
Steven Hassan Ph.D. after years of focused study of cults came up with the BITE model for assessing whether the group was a cult or not.
Behavior
Information (control thereof)... I took the PFLAP class 49+ years ago. I still remember Victor Wierwille instructing students to NOT read anything but materials produced by TWI. He cleverly couched that directive in temporal terms in that class. IF you will ONLY read the bible and TWI materials for several months...
Thought
Emotion
Bottom-line: like Penworks pointed out, it does matter where the money they'll ask you to donate goes and what they do with it. But it's really so much more. Penworks, in her memoir UNDERTOW demonstrated how it was far more insidious than just keeping their use of donations secret.
Thank you Rocky and Charlene!!!!!!! If I may share, I had a dream which got me to look at the PRESSURE we were under as wow's and way corpses. But/and your reminder Rocky re: how vp decreed/pontifically asserted that if we only read the Bible and twi materials, we would reap Great Benefits... This really hit me this am. What a mental POWER GRAB!!! OMG!!!!! How naive etc etc I was. What a devious way to get the doctrinal/emotional/spiritual box to close even further around the unsuspecting prey... I allowed myself to be lured into the trap, and then agreed to shut the door TIGHT, even locking it myself, and agreeing to only eat the stinking rotten food that was tossed my way... O M G.
Thank you Rocky and Charlene!!!!!!! If I may share, I had a dream which got me to look at the PRESSURE we were under as wow's and way corpses. But/and your reminder Rocky re: how vp decreed/pontifically asserted that if we only read the Bible and twi materials, we would reap Great Benefits... This really hit me this am. What a mental POWER GRAB!!! OMG!!!!! How naive etc etc I was. What a devious way to get the doctrinal/emotional/spiritual box to close even further around the unsuspecting prey... I allowed myself to be lured into the trap, and then agreed to shut the door TIGHT, even locking it myself, and agreeing to only eat the stinking rotten food that was tossed my way... O M G.
Question
modcat5
UPDATED: 8/12/2019
This forum is an experiment. We will decide whether it is constructive based on how it progresses.
The idea is simple: If you have a question about The Way International, past present or future, this is the place to ask.
Due to the nature of this forum, we reserve the right to revisit the issue of who can ask and answer questions. For now, you do NOT need to be registered with GSC to ask a question. You DO have to be registered with GSC to answer and to respond to answers.
ALL QUESTIONS have to be approved by moderators. Answers do not.
Answers are not to be considered official statements from GSC, its owners or moderators.
The standard rules of GSC apply: No namecalling, no "outing" people, no libel/slander, etc.
The moderators and owners of GSC will not disclose the IP addresses of those who post here unless legally necessary (don't make threats, and we should all be happy).
To clarify for those reading the responses to this question: it was originally posted as "Are you all unbelievers?" A similar question was asked by a guest, so I changed this one to make it more clear that this thread is an explanation of what we're attempting here.
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waysider
I'm not really sure what the question is but here is my take on the "TWI experience".
What affected me most and continues to affect me to a lesser degree, was not so much what I believe(d), but rather the dynamics of the lifestyle we tried to live. I mean, FellowLaborers was essentially an experiment in the commune lifestyle, using religion as a pretext. (Minus the sex, drugs and Rock and Roll) People are all over the charts on their religious/spiritual beliefs but the thing we all have in common is we tried to live a contrived lifestyle. We were all affected in our own ways, some to a minimal degree, some profoundly. Make no mistake, though, we were all affected.
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modcat5
Hi waysider. The idea behind his subforum is for anyone, ANYONE, to ask questions about us and about TWI. We can answer if we want. We can ASK if we want. It's like a little more explicit in its format than the average thread. Hopefully people will find it useful. If not, we scrap it and no harm done.
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waysider
Thanks, modcat5. I wasn't sure if my comment was relevant. I think I have a better grasp now on what the thread is about.
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Raf
Ask Us Anything
This forum is an experiment. We will decide whether it is constructive based on how it progresses.
The idea is simple: If you have a question about The Way International, past present or future, this is the place to ask.
Due to the nature of this forum, we reserve the right to revisit the issue of who can ask and answer questions.
But for now, let's see how it works.
[The moderators and owners of GSC will not disclose the IP addresses of those who post here unless legally necessary -- don't make threats, and we should all be happy].
In the interest of transparency, we ask guests to identify themselves either by name or by a consistent username we can all refer back to. (In other words, if you don't want to tell us who you are, fine. But at least come back with the same "fake" name when you return, like WierwilleDale or something).
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Rocky
Does this AMA (reddit's version of this thread) allow people who are not logged into GSC to post a question?
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Raf
That's the idea. If it proves problematic, we'll ditch the experiment.
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WordWolf
When I checked this morning, I had the button allowing me to post a question while logged out, and the thread showed the button allowing me to reply. So, in theory, someone can post a question to us without logging in, or reply to one. Obviously, the staff will be watching for potential vandalism, so this is (also obviously) an "experiment." There may be no problems, or one fool may ruin things for everyone as staff has to delete their stuff immediately. We'll all have to wait and see what happens.
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JavaJane
According to TWI's definition of unbeliver, I am one. A rank one. Currently practicing a combination of Catholicism, Buddhism, and Paganism. I can't say I have held on to any of the core beliefs of TWI. They all dropped off as I picked them up and examined them once I was outside of the group. I do still hold on to the memories of the beliefs, and I have found it has given me a lot of empathy for others who follow belief systems (religious and political) that I do not subscribe to. I feel that I have become more of who I really am in the process - not someone who is watching myself do things according to how someone else has told me it should be done, but instead living in the present moment, comfortable in my own being, knowing my decisions are my own to make.
I base my belief now on the simple "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself" with the definition of neighbor being all humanity instead of the narrow view of "the Household of Zion."
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T-Bone
Like Java Jane said - if you subscribe to TWI’s definition then I too am an unbeliever. However, I’ve taken up a more active role in my evolving belief system. I look at life as a journey. Raised Roman Catholic but at a critical juncture in my young life I chose to join TWI. Initially, I felt I was in the driver’s seat. But after years and years of programs, meetings, adopting a certain mindset and thinking I was serving God – most of my “motoring” skills took a back seat. If life is a journey - then this portion of the trip I was taken for a ride.
Why did I leave TWI? Maybe it was something like watching a train wreck in slow-motion…me slowly coming to the realization that there was something morally wrong with the whole thing. My beef is not over theology or some particular doctrine. I mean, if you look at the Pharisees in Jesus’ day – they may have had a tight theological system (whatever that is) but morally there was such dark overgrown jungle-like stain on their hearts that they often received Jesus’ most vehement criticism.
I would describe myself as a believer – with the Bible and the basics of Christianity as part of my moral compass on this journey of faith.
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modcat5
Please check first post for an update.
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penworks
For anyone considering getting involved with The Way, or if you are and you're having doubts about the group, consider this. It is information you may not have already:
The current Way organization still lauds the corrupt VPW as their founding "man of God?" About the Founder - Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille
That's enough for me to categorize the current organization as corrupt. Its roots in Wierwille are rotten. Their current "tree" cannot be any good no matter how "nice" any followers might be.
Many of us had first-hand experience with the authoritarian, narcissistic, predatory, abusive plagiarist named Victor Paul Wierwille. We know that he stole most of his teachings that are found on tapes and in his books. Many of those are still used today, or tweaked, or slanted this way or that.
We know the women he seduced and raped and silenced. We know the emotional abuse he inflicted on anyone who questioned him. We now understand how cults work and how they make extensive efforts to hide their corrupt histories like the one The Way has and cannot escape. We know that no matter how many fresh coats of paint you slather over filth, the filth is still underneath.
To any followers of this organization: ask where the money goes. Ask where the power lies. Ask what happens if you leave the group. Ask what happens if you disagree with the ideology. Think for yourself.
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Charity
I find it very difficult to know that this thread even exists for someone new to GSC. I've been here for a while now and never even paid attention to the "Ask the Greasepot Cafe" link that shows under "About the Way." I went straight to "About the Way" from day one. I didn't know about until penworks' post of today.
Is it not possible to have a sub forum called "Ask About the Way" with a description similar to "If you have a question about The Way International, past present or future, this is the place to ask?"
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Raf
I totally forgot this was here.
I think there are a bunch of things that need to be revisited in light of dwindling participation.
I want to find some way to preserve our testimonies and reconsiderations of what The Way taught.
No solid answers here. We'll figure something out.
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waysider
I'm curious what sort of jargon is currently being used at TWI. We had things like "I'm believing for it.", SIT more." and "We sure do love you." What catch phrases could you expect current followers to be using?
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Twinky
You could try reading some of the articles on their website. That's if you can stomach the jargon.
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waysider
Yeah, I could, but I'd be more interested in seeing if searching for things using their own jargon brought them to this website.
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Rocky
https://bitemodel.com/
Steven Hassan Ph.D. after years of focused study of cults came up with the BITE model for assessing whether the group was a cult or not.
Behavior
Information (control thereof)... I took the PFLAP class 49+ years ago. I still remember Victor Wierwille instructing students to NOT read anything but materials produced by TWI. He cleverly couched that directive in temporal terms in that class. IF you will ONLY read the bible and TWI materials for several months...
Thought
Emotion
Bottom-line: like Penworks pointed out, it does matter where the money they'll ask you to donate goes and what they do with it. But it's really so much more. Penworks, in her memoir UNDERTOW demonstrated how it was far more insidious than just keeping their use of donations secret.
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annio
Thank you Rocky and Charlene!!!!!!! If I may share, I had a dream which got me to look at the PRESSURE we were under as wow's and way corpses. But/and your reminder Rocky re: how vp decreed/pontifically asserted that if we only read the Bible and twi materials, we would reap Great Benefits... This really hit me this am. What a mental POWER GRAB!!! OMG!!!!! How naive etc etc I was. What a devious way to get the doctrinal/emotional/spiritual box to close even further around the unsuspecting prey... I allowed myself to be lured into the trap, and then agreed to shut the door TIGHT, even locking it myself, and agreeing to only eat the stinking rotten food that was tossed my way... O M G.
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Rocky
As did MANY of us...
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