...you shut down and hardly ever consider what others are saying to you.
English is a goofy language, ya know? "Shut down" can have more than one meaning. Are you saying that he, himself, closes his mind to more thorough deliberation or that he attempts to silence alternative opinions? I'm not sure it matters either way. I'm just seeking a bit of clarification, here
That is a valid way to work the scriptures, if you are digging deep down below the English. Sometimes that is necessary in areas of the scriptures that got messed up. But I don't think that is the case here, with the English words we are reasoning with.
In other words, there are times when paraphrasing is good enough to get to the bottom of something. God's Word being His will is one of them.
We are working with basic ideas here, and the ONLY complication is the self-induced allergy many have here to anything (even truth) that reminds them of VPW.
The handicap here with this topic of God's Word being His will is NOT the exact wording of any scripture, but the hate that blinds people to simple ideas.
The “allergy” that many have for VPWs works stem from the putrid fruit evident in his life which is continually whitewashed over by Wierwilleolatry - ignoring and discounting the putrid fruit, making images of the Wierwille idol, deifying his human works as coming straight from God and becoming egotistical and condescending as if this way of living in bondage is superior to common sense, intellect, and reason.
Wierwilles work is substandard and shallow.
It reminds me of someone trying to construct a philosophy of living straight from Dr. Seuss.
I don’t like green eggs and ham. I do not like them Sam I am.
Obviously I’m filled with hate for green eggs and ham and Dr Seuss.
That’s why these cult members are like they are asleep. The mind just can’t wake up to anything outside of grooved idolatry.
I did that very thing with several topics: the NT Canon, Free Will, and God's Budget. I got plenty of scrutiny.
There are other ideas that I put through scrutiny for many years before coming here. They do not need any more scrutiny.
It is YOU FOLKS who need to scrutinize self thinking. You folks who operated far too much in the emotional realm, snapping into TWI and snapping out need to face your blinding hate. Not much scrutiny going on when someone is still emotionally reacting negatively to the GOOD ideas God taught VPW.
There is no “snapping”. That term is probably something your subconscious came up with in response to Karl Kahlers book “The Cult That Snapped” highlighting a members personal experience in the cult and contact with its leaders. Your brain rejected the idea of the Way “snapping” so with the victim blaming ingrained in you from Plaffy “law of believing” now you flip it to blame members.
It is YOU FOLKS who need to scrutinize self thinking. You folks who operated far too much in the emotional realm, snapping into TWI and snapping out need to face your blinding hate. Not much scrutiny going on when someone is still emotionally reacting negatively to the GOOD ideas God taught VPW.
Who needs to scrutinize their thinking?
How many of us are forever whining about being jeered at, or being tricked, or being pounced on?
I submit that it's YOU that has all the hate. You claim all these years studying PLAF yet you never learned to apply the simplest of principles: believing equals recieving. Confession of belief equals receipt of confession.
One of the reasons I believe you don't believe Saint Vic's garbage any more that I do. If you believed it you'd apply it.
How many of us are forever whining about being jeered at, or being tricked, or being pounced on?
I submit that it's YOU that has all the hate. You claim all these years studying PLAF yet you never learned to apply the simplest of principles: believing equals recieving.
One of the reasons I believe you don't believe Saint Vic's garbage any more that I do. If you believed it you'd apply it.
Mike you want to get away from all the hate? Well a camera offers a great analogy. What you focus on is what you become. Vol 1 Chap 1 of the Blue Book - your substitution for the New Testament.
I thought you were a paradigm of living the collaterals. I mean they are what you worship.
Mike you want to get away from all the hate? Well a camera offers a great analogy. What you focus on is what you become. Vol 1 Chap 1 of the Blue Book - your substitution for the New Testament.
I thought you were a paradigm of living the collaterals. I mean they are what you worship.
Are you slipping here?
Well he's forgotten what we were taught and drifted away from the fundamentals...remember?
English is a goofy language, ya know? "Shut down" can have more than one meaning. Are you saying that he, himself, closes his mind to more thorough deliberation or that he attempts to silence alternative opinions? I'm not sure it matters either way. I'm just seeking a bit of clarification, here
You folks who operated far too much in the emotional realm,
How many realms are there anyway? spiritual realm, physical realm, emotional realm, pflappy realm, colateral damage realm, Rogaine realm, if it dont fit you must acquit realm...personally I think its a word thats just overused by you wierwilleites to try and sound like you know what your talking about...
I laugh out loud whenever I read GSC. There are some really funny emmeffers here. Where else could I read the pants-p¡ssing hilarity that is "God taught VPW."
I laugh out loud whenever I read GSC. There are some really funny emmeffers here. Where else could I read the pants-p¡ssing hilarity that is "God taught VPW."
Its a relevant point for certain. God clearly states I am holy so be ye holy. He lays out multiple qualifications for ministers in his scripture that sets a high bar of ethical behavior that victor paul wierwille clearly did not live at all, since he was a drunken, sexual predator, and plagairist. So God almighty, with whom it is impossible for God to lie, violates his own written Word to teach victor paul wierwille. He didnt even violate scripture for his own Son, Jesus Christ but had him fulfill the law and redeem mankind where Jesus Christ fulfilled the minutest detail of the Mosaic law: but he made an exception for Victor Paul Wierwille?....complete bullshonta.
The fact of the matter is there are no original manuscripts in existence. There is material evidence humans have corrupted what we've believed to be the Word of God.
Theres copious evidence that people have corrupted manuscripts and such....but why do you think God has to produce one ancient manuscript to rule them all in order for the Bible to be legitimate?
The KJV committee utilized 5000 or so texts from the Byzantine line of texts and the Textus Receptus agrees with these manuscripts nearly 99%. So God chose many manuscripts for comparison and accuracy. I wont derail this topic any further with this off topic post but Im more than happy to discuss what Ive learned on the subject in another thread. Peace!
Its a relevant point for certain. God clearly states I am holy so be ye holy. He lays out multiple qualifications for ministers in his scripture that sets a high bar of ethical behavior that victor paul wierwille clearly did not live at all, since he was a drunken, sexual predator, and plagairist. So God almighty, with whom it is impossible for God to lie, violates his own written Word to teach victor paul wierwille. He didnt even violates scripture for his own Sonm Jesus Christ but had him fulfill the law and redeem mankind where Jesus Christ fulfilled the munutest detail of the Mosaic law, but he made an exception for Victor Paul Wierwille....complete bullshonta.
I wish I could give the above quote 1000 upvotes. It's what lies at the crux of the whole "1942 promise."
There's copious evidence that people have corrupted manuscripts and such....but why do you think God has to produce one ancient manuscript to rule them all in order for the Bible to be legitimate?
I appreciate your acknowledgment of said copious evidence. I reply by asking (rhetorically) why you think the question you asked me is salient.
I have been under the impression it's humans (generally men) who have "produced" manuscripts, not God.
We're not in a realm wherein God produces manuscripts, right? I have also been under the impression the "holy men of God" were INSPIRED by God. Might "God-breathed" have been a figure of speech or an Orientalism? IDK. But I do believe the cultures (the time frame was over the course of a couple of millennia, right?) How quickly did cultures change back then? Probably not as quickly as they do now, but I suspect over one or two thousand years, there could have been significant culture shifts.
As a journalist, mediocre as I may have been, and only employed as such for three years or so, and as a citizen-funded one for another year or two, I encountered a LOT of errors in the written words of humans (women and men). Almost always, said errors/typos, even with the most rigorous and current technology available was unintentional. We don't really have to look any further than the contributions by our peers here on GSC (including me) to recognize the pervasiveness of typographical errors. Mostly unintentional. Sometimes intentional.
Here's a classic and poignant example: any time the word public is used journalism or any other publishing medium, it is ALWAYS prone to be written as "pubic." ALMOST always when it actually happens, it's unintentional. OFTEN when it's written without the L, it becomes humorous.
Even Victor Wierwille understood the concept of how easy it is for unintentional errors to creep into manuscripts during manual copying.
Consider also cultural anthropology. Specifically regarding how widespread education may or may not have been at times in question. Guttenberg didn't invent the printing press (for Western Civilization) until sometime in the 15th century of the Christian era. The Guttenberg Bible was apparently published in 1454 CE.
Is it any wonder the BEST possible effort or product only could logically, rationally, reasonably be characterized as religious tradition?
Victor Wierwille emphatically criticized religious tradition during his ministry. Reflecting back to that time, I surmise he did so to discredit anyone else's religious tradition and characterize HIS private interpretation as The Word of God, which just so happened, in his view, to be the one true take on what may actually be the Will of God.
I don't identify as atheist, though I suppose I could. But I do challenge, based on my life experience and education, former (academic) and informal, the notion of Victor Wierwille's private interpretation (or anyone else's) of any version of the Bible to be the accurate Word or Will of God.
Notably, however, I respect your (oldskool) long held belief in God's word. And every other person here on GSC who holds to that belief and understanding of life.
We don't change our values or beliefs quickly, for the most part.
So I am definitely not trying to argue that anyone here "is wrong" about God. I hold that there's just too much we don't and cannot yet know to make any such distinction.
I love you all... even pesky old Mike even though it's possible to see through him to a degree because of his candor about his beliefs.
It is YOU FOLKS who need to scrutinize self thinking. You folks who operated far too much in the emotional realm, snapping into TWI and snapping out need to face your blinding hate. Not much scrutiny going on when someone is still emotionally reacting negatively to the GOOD ideas God taught VPW.
And because it's often so doggone obvious he projects.
So I am definitely not trying to argue that anyone here "is wrong" about God. I hold that there's just too much we don't and cannot yet know to make any such distinction.
Perhaps its the differnce between a faith based view and non-faith based view? Personally, Im ok with whatever anyone wants to believe, but of course Im always ready to explain the reasons for my faith but not everyone wants to hear that. Rock on!
Notably, however, I respect your (oldskool) long held belief in God's word
No doubt, and it's very mutual, and thanks! Actually, I had very little faith if any at all when I was drunk. That was about a 6 year period or more really. My faith rekindled when I dropped to my knees asking God for his help with a sincere and humble heart. My life has not been the same since.
We're not in a realm wherein God produces manuscripts, right?
We are in a realm where God uses many forms of communication to impress his will on us. Ranging from the stars, to written manuscripts, oral tradition, etc. But yes, God has done as you say and provided Moses tables of stone with the mosaic Law inscribed thereon. The errors of men do not nullify God or his scriptures.
Exodus 34:1
And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
I laugh out loud whenever I read GSC. There are some really funny emmeffers here. Where else could I read the pants-p¡ssing hilarity that is "God taught VPW."
Yes that is the expanded “Great Principle”. God who is Spirit can only talk to VPs spirit and make snowstorms. Then VPs spirit teaches some hippie chick not his wife. Then it becomes written down as truth. Then VPs spirit steals a bunch of other shiz from other spirits. And writes those down. All of this makes the poor love bomb victim manifest $100 to be held captive in a basement and watch tapes for hours and become a Plaffy grad.
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penworks
Or, for something completely different along these lines, there's a very compelling argument for doing away with bible study altogether in a "shocking" book called The End of Biblical Studies (gasp!)
waysider
The sound of irony is deafening.
OldSkool
I dont see jeering and chatter I saw you completely shut down because you were confronted with uncomfortable truths that you are smart enough to recognize but deluded enough to rationalize them away.
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waysider
English is a goofy language, ya know? "Shut down" can have more than one meaning. Are you saying that he, himself, closes his mind to more thorough deliberation or that he attempts to silence alternative opinions? I'm not sure it matters either way. I'm just seeking a bit of clarification, here
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chockfull
The “allergy” that many have for VPWs works stem from the putrid fruit evident in his life which is continually whitewashed over by Wierwilleolatry - ignoring and discounting the putrid fruit, making images of the Wierwille idol, deifying his human works as coming straight from God and becoming egotistical and condescending as if this way of living in bondage is superior to common sense, intellect, and reason.
Wierwilles work is substandard and shallow.
It reminds me of someone trying to construct a philosophy of living straight from Dr. Seuss.
I don’t like green eggs and ham. I do not like them Sam I am.
Obviously I’m filled with hate for green eggs and ham and Dr Seuss.
That’s why these cult members are like they are asleep. The mind just can’t wake up to anything outside of grooved idolatry.
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chockfull
There is no “snapping”. That term is probably something your subconscious came up with in response to Karl Kahlers book “The Cult That Snapped” highlighting a members personal experience in the cult and contact with its leaders. Your brain rejected the idea of the Way “snapping” so with the victim blaming ingrained in you from Plaffy “law of believing” now you flip it to blame members.
Truly a sick mind.
Clearly traceable to the collaterals.
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So_crates
Who needs to scrutinize their thinking?
How many of us are forever whining about being jeered at, or being tricked, or being pounced on?
I submit that it's YOU that has all the hate. You claim all these years studying PLAF yet you never learned to apply the simplest of principles: believing equals recieving. Confession of belief equals receipt of confession.
One of the reasons I believe you don't believe Saint Vic's garbage any more that I do. If you believed it you'd apply it.
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chockfull
Mike you want to get away from all the hate? Well a camera offers a great analogy. What you focus on is what you become. Vol 1 Chap 1 of the Blue Book - your substitution for the New Testament.
I thought you were a paradigm of living the collaterals. I mean they are what you worship.
Are you slipping here?
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waysider
The sound of irony is deafening.
Edited by waysidermissed a word
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OldSkool
Well he's forgotten what we were taught and drifted away from the fundamentals...remember?
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OldSkool
Im thinking a lot of both.
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OldSkool
How many realms are there anyway? spiritual realm, physical realm, emotional realm, pflappy realm, colateral damage realm, Rogaine realm, if it dont fit you must acquit realm...personally I think its a word thats just overused by you wierwilleites to try and sound like you know what your talking about...
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Rocky
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Nathan_Jr
I laugh out loud whenever I read GSC. There are some really funny emmeffers here. Where else could I read the pants-p¡ssing hilarity that is "God taught VPW."
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OldSkool
Its a relevant point for certain. God clearly states I am holy so be ye holy. He lays out multiple qualifications for ministers in his scripture that sets a high bar of ethical behavior that victor paul wierwille clearly did not live at all, since he was a drunken, sexual predator, and plagairist. So God almighty, with whom it is impossible for God to lie, violates his own written Word to teach victor paul wierwille. He didnt even violate scripture for his own Son, Jesus Christ but had him fulfill the law and redeem mankind where Jesus Christ fulfilled the minutest detail of the Mosaic law: but he made an exception for Victor Paul Wierwille?....complete bullshonta.
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OldSkool
Theres copious evidence that people have corrupted manuscripts and such....but why do you think God has to produce one ancient manuscript to rule them all in order for the Bible to be legitimate?
The KJV committee utilized 5000 or so texts from the Byzantine line of texts and the Textus Receptus agrees with these manuscripts nearly 99%. So God chose many manuscripts for comparison and accuracy. I wont derail this topic any further with this off topic post but Im more than happy to discuss what Ive learned on the subject in another thread. Peace!
Older is not more reliable:
https://www.kjvtoday.com/arent-older-manuscripts-more-reliable/
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So_crates
I wish I could give the above quote 1000 upvotes. It's what lies at the crux of the whole "1942 promise."
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Rocky
I appreciate your acknowledgment of said copious evidence. I reply by asking (rhetorically) why you think the question you asked me is salient.
I have been under the impression it's humans (generally men) who have "produced" manuscripts, not God.
We're not in a realm wherein God produces manuscripts, right? I have also been under the impression the "holy men of God" were INSPIRED by God. Might "God-breathed" have been a figure of speech or an Orientalism? IDK. But I do believe the cultures (the time frame was over the course of a couple of millennia, right?) How quickly did cultures change back then? Probably not as quickly as they do now, but I suspect over one or two thousand years, there could have been significant culture shifts.
As a journalist, mediocre as I may have been, and only employed as such for three years or so, and as a citizen-funded one for another year or two, I encountered a LOT of errors in the written words of humans (women and men). Almost always, said errors/typos, even with the most rigorous and current technology available was unintentional. We don't really have to look any further than the contributions by our peers here on GSC (including me) to recognize the pervasiveness of typographical errors. Mostly unintentional. Sometimes intentional.
Here's a classic and poignant example: any time the word public is used journalism or any other publishing medium, it is ALWAYS prone to be written as "pubic." ALMOST always when it actually happens, it's unintentional. OFTEN when it's written without the L, it becomes humorous.
Even Victor Wierwille understood the concept of how easy it is for unintentional errors to creep into manuscripts during manual copying.
Consider also cultural anthropology. Specifically regarding how widespread education may or may not have been at times in question. Guttenberg didn't invent the printing press (for Western Civilization) until sometime in the 15th century of the Christian era. The Guttenberg Bible was apparently published in 1454 CE.
Imagine how tedious copy editing and proofreading must (or might) have been at ANY point.
Is it any wonder the BEST possible effort or product only could logically, rationally, reasonably be characterized as religious tradition?
Victor Wierwille emphatically criticized religious tradition during his ministry. Reflecting back to that time, I surmise he did so to discredit anyone else's religious tradition and characterize HIS private interpretation as The Word of God, which just so happened, in his view, to be the one true take on what may actually be the Will of God.
I don't identify as atheist, though I suppose I could. But I do challenge, based on my life experience and education, former (academic) and informal, the notion of Victor Wierwille's private interpretation (or anyone else's) of any version of the Bible to be the accurate Word or Will of God.
Notably, however, I respect your (oldskool) long held belief in God's word. And every other person here on GSC who holds to that belief and understanding of life.
We don't change our values or beliefs quickly, for the most part.
So I am definitely not trying to argue that anyone here "is wrong" about God. I hold that there's just too much we don't and cannot yet know to make any such distinction.
I love you all... even pesky old Mike even though it's possible to see through him to a degree because of his candor about his beliefs.
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Rocky
And because it's often so doggone obvious he projects.
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OldSkool
Perhaps its the differnce between a faith based view and non-faith based view? Personally, Im ok with whatever anyone wants to believe, but of course Im always ready to explain the reasons for my faith but not everyone wants to hear that. Rock on!
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OldSkool
No doubt, and it's very mutual, and thanks! Actually, I had very little faith if any at all when I was drunk. That was about a 6 year period or more really. My faith rekindled when I dropped to my knees asking God for his help with a sincere and humble heart. My life has not been the same since.
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OldSkool
We are in a realm where God uses many forms of communication to impress his will on us. Ranging from the stars, to written manuscripts, oral tradition, etc. But yes, God has done as you say and provided Moses tables of stone with the mosaic Law inscribed thereon. The errors of men do not nullify God or his scriptures.
Exodus 34:1
And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
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chockfull
Yes that is the expanded “Great Principle”. God who is Spirit can only talk to VPs spirit and make snowstorms. Then VPs spirit teaches some hippie chick not his wife. Then it becomes written down as truth. Then VPs spirit steals a bunch of other shiz from other spirits. And writes those down. All of this makes the poor love bomb victim manifest $100 to be held captive in a basement and watch tapes for hours and become a Plaffy grad.
Its all in the “how” lol.
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Nathan_Jr
God is Spirit? Sounds like interpretative math. Sounds like you’re trying to make is mean something it’s not.
A literal interpretation according to usage would be God is represented by spirit, or, accurately, God is associated with spirit.
Bless your heart. I wish you could read it in the original.
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chockfull
I only do interpretive dance not interpretive math. Sorry.
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Nathan_Jr
*Makes note: Chockfull is an athlete.
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OldSkool
But can you do the renewed robot?
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