I have gotten some practice at spotting where we grads (me included) tended to drift off and away from what we were taught.
I am just trying to help. If I were looking for ego strokes, I'd find many more of them elsewhere.
Im a grad of every class they offered as of 2008 and am a way corps grad and went way disciple not once but twice....Im not drifting away from anything. Ive compared wierwilles words to scripture and they don't fit. That wierwille made them fit doesn't make it so. So when Im attempting to discuss these details with you so you could verify what Im telling you, you shut down and hardly ever consider what others are saying to you. Its your loss really but it sucks becuase you seem to be a good, well intentioned person, and I truly believe you love God the way you understand him.
That wierwille made them fit doesn't make it so. So when Im attempting to discuss these details with you so you could verify what Im telling you, you shut down and hardly ever consider what others are saying to you. Its your loss really but it sucks becuase you seem to be a good, well intentioned person, and I truly believe you love God the way you understand him.
I appreciate that and respect our differences.
The way I was showed to love God was bigger than me, and I am still still "taking" that class.
That's better. It is almost scientifically precise and mathematically exact. The word is not equivalent to the will, but the will is expressed, declared by the word.
"We use "their word is their will" all the time with people. We apply this simple idea all the time to people, the idea that if they are smart and trustworthy, then their word is their will."
I've never heard anyone use this phrase. Literally never. Of course, that doesn't mean one person never said it and a second never heard it. So, I'll concede two people use this phrase all the time.
Someone's will is their intention, desire, want, plan, autonomous determination.
(A command or decree could fit in there, too, I suppose, but maybe not -- seems a command is a declaration of a will.)
An intention, plan, desire is expressed by through words spoken or written.
The word ≠ the will. They are not the same. "The word of God is the will of God" is a bullsh¡t phrase.
Hmm, the way this thread has gone is all about the "written word" - the Bible. (And in Mike's case, the collaterals.)
Let's not forget this:
John 1:14is one of the most important verses in the Bible. It reads: “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”
So if we look at Jesus Christ, the one and only son, who was full of grace and truth, do the actions of this "word" differ from the written principles of the Bible?
Shouldn't Jesus have obeyed the written word and thrown a stone at the woman?
What about when he touched lepers, a strict no-no in the written word? Jesus responds (Mt 8:3) to the approaching leper (Mt 8:2) - not by resenting him or scaring him away, but by stretching out his hand towards him.As the leper kneels before him, Jesus touches him. Instead of warning Jesus of his uncleanness, the leper makes a statement of faith and begs for healing.
So if you're going to adhere to a belief that "The word of God is the will of God" then you need to reconcile the dichotomy between what the written word says, and some of the actions of the word in manifestation in the form of Jesus Christ. Fits like a hand in a --- in a what? A mitten? A pocket? A paper bag?
SMH. We do NOT have "God's Word." Anywhere. There has not been discovery and/or verification of any original manuscripts.
Therefore, your declaration, which I quoted in this post, is nothing more than an exposition of your belief.
Geez... I wish you had emotional intelligence, legit critical thinking/analysis skills, and effective communication skills.
You can lump me in with Mike on this one because I believe we do have God's Word...I also lack emotional intelligence, etc because I stake my life in scripture and my all is God and his Son Jesus Christ.
You can lump me in with Mike on this one because I believe we do have God's Word...I also lack emotional intelligence, etc because I stake my life in scripture and my all is God and his Son Jesus Christ.
Thank you for your post OldSkool. This is where I stand as well, and you said it without injecting any of vp's deceitful words which Mike always does.
When BOTH trustworthiness and intelligence are both present in a person, THEN we can look at those smart trustworthy words from them, and know they accurately resemble the will of that person.
Only hate could reject "God's Word being God's will."
Mike, since you have doubled down above on what you said earlier, I will reply again:
Merriam-Webster gives the following definition for the words you have used:
Smart: having or showing a high degree of mental ability.
Intelligent: having or indicating a high or satisfactory degree of intelligence and mental capacity
You do not need either of these to accurately make known your will. I believe you do have to have a sound mind meaning having full, unimpaired thought, memory and cognitive understanding - an ability to think and understand for oneself. (The Free Dictionary by Farlex)
Your last sentence in your post sounds like a defensive projection. I, as well as others, disagree with "God's word is God's will" and have given specific reasons why.
Smart: having or showing a high degree of mental ability.
Intelligent: having or indicating a high or satisfactory degree of intelligence and mental capacity
You do not need either of these to accurately make known your will. I believe you do have to have a sound mind meaning having full, unimpaired thought, memory and cognitive understanding - an ability to think and understand for oneself.
I disagree. All three (smarts, intelligence, sound mind) are involved in (1) assessing what one's own will is, and (2) choosing words that properly communicate what that will is.
There are people who fall short in these areas, and for them we don't have reliable and full knowledge of what their will is, due to inefficient communication.
God, of course, is well aware of His own will, and fully able to communicate it or deliver it to those who are willing to receive it.
*/*/*
The other quality a human must have is trustworthiness. If they lie about their will, then we can't know it.
God, of course, does not lie.
*/*/*
So when we have an accurate knowledge of the Word of God on any topic, we have an accurate knowledge of God's will on that topic.
A short way of saying this that is easy to remember is:
The Word of God is the will of God.
*/*/*
The word "is" here should not be misinterpreted as being "mathematically equivalent to" because no math is involved here. The word "is" denotes "association with," or "represented by," but not the word "equals" in the numerical sense.
All three (smarts, intelligence, sound mind) are involved in (1) assessing what one's own will is, and (2) choosing words that properly communicate what that will is.
All three (smarts, intelligence, sound mind) are involved in (1) assessing what one's own will is, and (2) choosing words that properly communicate what that will is.
It's a good thing you're not a mother. Your baby would be sitting in a poopy diaper for an awful long time.
I disagree. All three (smarts, intelligence, sound mind) are involved in (1) assessing what one's own will is, and (2) choosing words that properly communicate what that will is.
There are people who fall short in these areas, and for them we don't have reliable and full knowledge of what their will is, due to inefficient communication.
You did not carefully read the definitions of smart and intelligent.
"I want you to brush your teeth." Is that smart enough for you? Did I choose my words properly to communicate my will?
The Word of God contains detailed on evil fallen angels, demonic spirits, etc. Since God details the adversaries kingdom, methods, motivations, etc in his Word...is Satan's rebellion Gods will as well? God's Word contains lots of information that is contrary to his will.
That Deut quote does very much tell them to saturate their lives with God's Word, to the extent it was available.
Everyone knows that books were not available then, and scrolls were very expensive. But what about memorization skills? I think they did not invent paper and pencils because they were far more skilled at memorization than we are in our culture.
They also had less distractions.
Psalm 119 tells us to saturate our lives with God's Word.
The highlighting above is mine. A definition of "saturate" is "holding as much water or moisture as can be absorbed; thoroughly soaked."
To me, I find this to be a loaded word when used in the context of a cult such as twi where leaders demanded that many followers totally agree with and live according to everything they taught - absolutely no room for questions, critical thinking, or freedom of choice. You can see this so clearly in the examples given in the BITE Model of Authoritarian Control, shown before on GSC (website below), especially under the "Behavior Control" heading. One of the techniques under "Thought Control" is:
"Use of loaded language and cliché which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words."
The word "saturate" is only used 3 times and appears only in the NET version - twice they refer to tears and once to watering the fields. The verses in Deut 6:6-9 that Mike was referring to are about God's word being in their hearts.
Using the word "saturate" as Mike does is private interpretation of the scriptures and leaves the door open for cult leaders to define what "saturate your life" means for the purpose of lording over believers.
The word "is" here should not be misinterpreted as being "mathematically equivalent to" because no math is involved here. The word "is" denotes "association with," or "represented by," but not the word "equals" in the numerical sense.
The word "is" here should not be misinterpreted as being "mathematically equivalent to" because no math is involved here. The word "is" denotes "association with," or "represented by," but not the word "equals" in the numerical sense.
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penworks
Or, for something completely different along these lines, there's a very compelling argument for doing away with bible study altogether in a "shocking" book called The End of Biblical Studies (gasp!)
waysider
The sound of irony is deafening.
OldSkool
I dont see jeering and chatter I saw you completely shut down because you were confronted with uncomfortable truths that you are smart enough to recognize but deluded enough to rationalize them away.
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OldSkool
Im a grad of every class they offered as of 2008 and am a way corps grad and went way disciple not once but twice....Im not drifting away from anything. Ive compared wierwilles words to scripture and they don't fit. That wierwille made them fit doesn't make it so. So when Im attempting to discuss these details with you so you could verify what Im telling you, you shut down and hardly ever consider what others are saying to you. Its your loss really but it sucks becuase you seem to be a good, well intentioned person, and I truly believe you love God the way you understand him.
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Twinky
Here we go again.
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OldSkool
Nah, Im bowing out before the cycle continues. Thanks for the reminder, nobody enjoys reading these twisted lengthy threads.
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Mike
I appreciate that and respect our differences.
The way I was showed to love God was bigger than me, and I am still still "taking" that class.
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Rocky
SMH. We do NOT have "God's Word." Anywhere. There has not been discovery and/or verification of any original manuscripts.
Therefore, your declaration, which I quoted in this post, is nothing more than an exposition of your belief.
Geez... I wish you had emotional intelligence, legit critical thinking/analysis skills, and effective communication skills.
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Mike
Well, IF IF IF you had God's Word, THEN you could logically conclude that you had His Will declared by His Word.
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Nathan_Jr
"His Will declared by His Word."
That's better. It is almost scientifically precise and mathematically exact. The word is not equivalent to the will, but the will is expressed, declared by the word.
"We use "their word is their will" all the time with people. We apply this simple idea all the time to people, the idea that if they are smart and trustworthy, then their word is their will."
I've never heard anyone use this phrase. Literally never. Of course, that doesn't mean one person never said it and a second never heard it. So, I'll concede two people use this phrase all the time.
Someone's will is their intention, desire, want, plan, autonomous determination.
(A command or decree could fit in there, too, I suppose, but maybe not -- seems a command is a declaration of a will.)
An intention, plan, desire is expressed by through words spoken or written.
The word ≠ the will. They are not the same. "The word of God is the will of God" is a bullsh¡t phrase.
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Twinky
The word of God is the will of God.
Hmm, the way this thread has gone is all about the "written word" - the Bible. (And in Mike's case, the collaterals.)
Let's not forget this:
John 1:14 is one of the most important verses in the Bible. It reads: “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”
So if we look at Jesus Christ, the one and only son, who was full of grace and truth, do the actions of this "word" differ from the written principles of the Bible?
The Woman Caught in Adultery
John 8:28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me. 29 He who sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.”
Shouldn't Jesus have obeyed the written word and thrown a stone at the woman?
What about when he touched lepers, a strict no-no in the written word?
Jesus responds (Mt 8:3) to the approaching leper (Mt 8:2) - not by resenting him or scaring him away, but by stretching out his hand towards him. As the leper kneels before him, Jesus touches him. Instead of warning Jesus of his uncleanness, the leper makes a statement of faith and begs for healing.
So if you're going to adhere to a belief that "The word of God is the will of God" then you need to reconcile the dichotomy between what the written word says, and some of the actions of the word in manifestation in the form of Jesus Christ. Fits like a hand in a --- in a what? A mitten? A pocket? A paper bag?
Or was Jesus wrong? "Off the word"?
Just exactly what word of God is the will of God?
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OldSkool
You can lump me in with Mike on this one because I believe we do have God's Word...I also lack emotional intelligence, etc because I stake my life in scripture and my all is God and his Son Jesus Christ.
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Charity
Thank you for your post OldSkool. This is where I stand as well, and you said it without injecting any of vp's deceitful words which Mike always does.
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Charity
Mike, since you have doubled down above on what you said earlier, I will reply again:
Merriam-Webster gives the following definition for the words you have used:
Smart: having or showing a high degree of mental ability.
Intelligent: having or indicating a high or satisfactory degree of intelligence and mental capacity
You do not need either of these to accurately make known your will. I believe you do have to have a sound mind meaning having full, unimpaired thought, memory and cognitive understanding - an ability to think and understand for oneself. (The Free Dictionary by Farlex)
Your last sentence in your post sounds like a defensive projection. I, as well as others, disagree with "God's word is God's will" and have given specific reasons why.
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Mike
I disagree. All three (smarts, intelligence, sound mind) are involved in (1) assessing what one's own will is, and (2) choosing words that properly communicate what that will is.
There are people who fall short in these areas, and for them we don't have reliable and full knowledge of what their will is, due to inefficient communication.
God, of course, is well aware of His own will, and fully able to communicate it or deliver it to those who are willing to receive it.
*/*/*
The other quality a human must have is trustworthiness. If they lie about their will, then we can't know it.
God, of course, does not lie.
*/*/*
So when we have an accurate knowledge of the Word of God on any topic, we have an accurate knowledge of God's will on that topic.
A short way of saying this that is easy to remember is:
The Word of God is the will of God.
*/*/*
The word "is" here should not be misinterpreted as being "mathematically equivalent to" because no math is involved here. The word "is" denotes "association with," or "represented by," but not the word "equals" in the numerical sense.
What a beautiful and simple idea!
The Word of God is the will of God.
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waysider
It
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waysider
It's a good thing you're not a mother. Your baby would be sitting in a poopy diaper for an awful long time.
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Charity
You did not carefully read the definitions of smart and intelligent.
"I want you to brush your teeth." Is that smart enough for you? Did I choose my words properly to communicate my will?
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OldSkool
The Word of God contains detailed on evil fallen angels, demonic spirits, etc. Since God details the adversaries kingdom, methods, motivations, etc in his Word...is Satan's rebellion Gods will as well? God's Word contains lots of information that is contrary to his will.
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Charity
Hi, what does /s mean?
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So_crates
Sarcasm off.
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So_crates
Haven't you said previously that God can lie?
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Charity
Thanks - it's not always easy to tell so it's helpful when someone does use /s.
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Charity
The highlighting above is mine. A definition of "saturate" is "holding as much water or moisture as can be absorbed; thoroughly soaked."
To me, I find this to be a loaded word when used in the context of a cult such as twi where leaders demanded that many followers totally agree with and live according to everything they taught - absolutely no room for questions, critical thinking, or freedom of choice. You can see this so clearly in the examples given in the BITE Model of Authoritarian Control, shown before on GSC (website below), especially under the "Behavior Control" heading. One of the techniques under "Thought Control" is:
"Use of loaded language and cliché which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words."
The word "saturate" is only used 3 times and appears only in the NET version - twice they refer to tears and once to watering the fields. The verses in Deut 6:6-9 that Mike was referring to are about God's word being in their hearts.
Using the word "saturate" as Mike does is private interpretation of the scriptures and leaves the door open for cult leaders to define what "saturate your life" means for the purpose of lording over believers.
https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/
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Nathan_Jr
Buuuuulllllsssshhhiiiittt!!!!!
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waysider
An apple isn't an apple. It only represents one.
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cman
well, mike, besides the loaded wording and words...
do you think you have truth? if you have the "accurate" Word - do you?
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