When they DID have access they were to make copies of parts to hang in their houses, and they were to talk about what they heard when the scriptures were being read. THEY WERE TO DO THEIR BEST to get God's Word flowing in their minds, SO THAT they could love Him.
God gave a simple commandment to simple people so they could simply love Him via His Word. We can do better with Bibles
Hebrew 1:1,2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Mike, it says that God has spoken in divers manners. Divers literally means "different kinds."
So, while I am in awe of the AV1611 and other Textus Receptus Bibles, such as Geneva, Matthews, Tyndale, et. al., and while I believe the Bible covers the gamut on salvation and knowing what it is God wants us to understand, it is NOT the end of the story and God HAS not limited himself to communicating to his creation via the Bible. In fact, there are fake Bibles, there are books that Martin Luther removed from the Prostetant Canon that shouldnt have been removed. The First Book of Enoch is missing and is directly quoted by Jesus Christ in the Gospels and in the book of Jude. Jasher and Jubilees are both referenced to give further insight on the historical details those books give. The Bible is not an exhaustive collection of every book (scroll, papyri, stone tablets, whatever) of scripture ever written. Some books have been lost. There are many Biblical Canons all over the earth and the books vary significantly. So to limit God to a book that men produced and say because it contains scripture that "THE BIBLE" is the end all be all is a serious misunderstanding of God and how he works.
BTW - You are imagining people in the Old Testament times framing scripture posters on their walls and such. Do you not understand the Mosaic Laws and the details they were to live under? Everything about them was to remind them of God and praise and worship his holy name. Their wardrobe, their feasts and celebrations, days and times of the year, weekly Sabbath, etc. While I can't authoratatively say that Moses didn't have a ministry theme poster on his tent walls I think I can pretty much guess it didnt happen and you are simply daydreaming to make your point.
Is "the Word" written in the stars? Psalm 19:1 says
1
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2
Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge.
3
There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard.
So there is a different written word. Written zillions of years ago - and still around now. You can see it every single night, unless there is cloud cover. The word written in the stars, which we must also study. Some, perhaps many, of us have read Bullinger's "The Witness of the Stars." I wondered briefly if Mike would consider that as part of the collaterals, but he probably wouldn't because it doesn't have VPW's name splattered on it. However, if vpw had pinched chunks of Witness, and published these chunks under his own name, likely Mike would thrill himself with those too.
I suggest we all take up astronomy immediately, then we can study God's Word in the original language. Never mind learning Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic; too late on the scene. If we learned astronomy, who knows, we might even discover some of those missing verses that vpw claimed must exist somewhere.
PS there are other Bible verses about the word being written in the stars, not just Ps 19:1, but that'll do for starters.
I take it from Mike shutting completely down that he is here to lecture us on the merits of flappy and only wants us to return under the yoke of bondage inherent in anything wierwille. So when relevant information is introduced he can't look at it and won't discuss it because wierwille didn't verify the material....anywho...sad really...
Feel free to correct me any time. I remember reading something about this but I found it confusing, although I did look up the meaning of radicals which I'm sure only confused me more . So, are you saying that since vp was inaccurate with the "sitting" stuff that rest and ceasing work is a correct translation?
Just amending the above to have it say, "Feel free to correct or disagree with me any time."
Is "the Word" written in the stars? Psalm 19:1 says
1
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2
Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge.
3
There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard.
So there is a different written word. Written zillions of years ago - and still around now. You can see it every single night, unless there is cloud cover. The word written in the stars, which we must also study. Some, perhaps many, of us have read Bullinger's "The Witness of the Stars." I wondered briefly if Mike would consider that as part of the collaterals, but he probably wouldn't because it doesn't have VPW's name splattered on it. However, if vpw had pinched chunks of Witness, and published these chunks under his own name, likely Mike would thrill himself with those too.
I suggest we all take up astronomy immediately, then we can study God's Word in the original language. Never mind learning Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic; too late on the scene. If we learned astronomy, who knows, we might even discover some of those missing verses that vpw claimed must exist somewhere.
PS there are other Bible verses about the word being written in the stars, not just Ps 19:1, but that'll do for starters.
Speaking of illiteracy, Mike seems to think the reading ability back in Deuteronomy days was equal to contemporary times. How else would the Jews copy passages from the scrolls and hang them in their homes? How else would they become "bible freaks"?
Mike, there wasn't a bible on public display until it was well into book form, sometime way After the Common Era. So how were they able to be "bible freaks" with no bible to freak with?
Also, Mike, note that your Deuteronomy quote does not say "saturate your life with God's words", it too, like John, says "Keep his commandments."
The difference? Your private interpretation requests memorization. Keeping his commandments requires behavior. For example, Saint Vic may have memorized a lot of the bible, but he was lousy about keeping his commandments.
That Deut quote does very much tell them to saturate their lives with God's Word, to the extent it was available.
Everyone knows that books were not available then, and scrolls were very expensive. But what about memorization skills? I think they did not invent paper and pencils because they were far more skilled at memorization than we are in our culture.
They also had less distractions.
Psalm 119 tells us to saturate our lives with God's Word.
I take it from Mike shutting completely down that he is here to lecture us on the merits of flappy and only wants us to return under the yoke of bondage inherent in anything wierwille. So when relevant information is introduced he can't look at it and won't discuss it because wierwille didn't verify the material....anywho...sad really...
I've spent 20 years looking at information you think I don't look at.
That Deut quote does very much tell them to saturate their lives with God's Word, to the extent it was available.
No, YOUR private interpretation (and no doubt you're echoing Saint Vic) says "Saturate your life with God's Word." The texts says, "Keep his commandments." There's a distinction.
Show me where it says "Saturate your life with God"s Word."
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Everyone knows
Everybody? Newborn babies? Three year olds? Everybody's a pretty big word. You're wrong just out of the gate.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
that books were not available then, and scrolls were very expensive. But what about memorization skills? I think they did not invent paper and pencils because they were far more skilled at memorization than we are in our culture.
Oh really? And scrolls weren't their version of pencil and paper?
1 hour ago, Mike said:
They also had less distractions.
Yah, acquiring food and water wasn't a distraction. Not to mention neighboring tribes which may want your women, food, or gold. *Sigh* The good old days.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Psalm 119 tells us to saturate our lives with God's Word.
It also says "Keep his commandments."
Show me where it says "Saturate your life with God's Word."
With any human, it they are trustworthy and smart, then their words will accurately reflect their will.
I use this line in witnessing all the time.
Nathan_Jr wrote, "God's word is God's will" is a loaded, pithyphrase, insidiouslydesigned to seduce."
vp and lcm, as supposed MOG, obviously were not trustworthy.
Being smart (or intelligent) has nothing to do with being trustworthy. It's interesting why you would say it does - it might have something to do with the fact that you often refer to the intelligence of people in twi and almost always, it's in a way to imply yours is greater than theirs. Now a sound mind does come into play since once must be of a sound mind at the time their last will and testament is written.
"I use this line" reminds me of what a guy/girl does when trying to pick someone up in a bar or something. I don't think Jesus had a line or slogan when he ministered to people. Then again, in twi, witnessing wasn't about ministering so much as it was about selling the class; hence a pickup line comes in handy.
The "God's word is God's will" slogan is everything Nathan_Jr says it is, especially when it's repeated over and over again.
Oh, but not when I did it. I was always sincere and selfless in my intentions. /s
I guess I could say I was too in that I sincerely believed the class would minister to them once they sat through all 12 sessions without being allowed to ask questions until the last session. But then, asking questions at the end only meant you weren't paying enough attention the first time (as Mike often reminds us) and therefore you need to take it again. Therefore, go out and sign people up (you're a grad now after all) so there's the required number to start a new class.
I was usually excited about running fellowships (both adult and children's), teaching the Word often from the collaterals and lovingly undershepherding people, but the goal was always to have them sign up for the class and then after taking it, the "commitment to the word" stage would begin. This is pretty much how I remember it.
Being smart (or intelligent) has nothing to do with being trustworthy.
I know they have nothing to do with each other. That is why I put the word "and" between smart and trustworthy in my comment. Maybe you failed to see that word. Maybe you were blind to it; wanting to catch me in error so badly.
When BOTH trustworthiness and intelligence are both present in a person, THEN we can look at those smart trustworthy words from them, and know they accurately resemble the will of that person.
We use "their word is their will" all the time with people.
But for those whose conscience is seared with a hot hate for VPW, then they cannot see truth in "God's Word is God's Will." Their minds are blinded by hate.
We apply this simple idea all the time to people, the idea that if they are smart and trustworthy, then their word is their will.
OF COURSE it also applies to God!
God is more trustworthy and more intelligent, so it applies more to him.
The Word of God is the Will of God !
I really like the simplicity of it, and how simply it shows me who has blinded their minds with hate.
Only hate could reject "God's Word being God's will."
I know they have nothing to do with each other. That is why I put the word "and" between smart and trustworthy in my comment. Maybe you failed to see that word. Maybe you were blind to it; wanting to catch me in error so badly.
When BOTH trustworthiness and intelligence are both present in a person, THEN we can look at those smart trustworthy words from them, and know they accurately resemble the will of that person.
We use "their word is their will" all the time with people.
But for those whose conscience is seared with a hot hate for VPW, then they cannot see truth in "God's Word is God's Will." Their minds are blinded by hate.
We apply this simple idea all the time to people, the idea that if they are smart and trustworthy, then their word is their will.
OF COURSE it also applies to God!
God is more trustworthy and more intelligent, so it applies more to him.
The Word of God is the Will of God !
I really like the simplicity of it, and how simply it shows me who has blinded their minds with hate.
Only hate could reject "God's Word being God's will."
Maybe you think that you know that you know that you know and consider yourself an expert on God....humility...God resists the proud.
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penworks
Or, for something completely different along these lines, there's a very compelling argument for doing away with bible study altogether in a "shocking" book called The End of Biblical Studies (gasp!)
waysider
The sound of irony is deafening.
OldSkool
I dont see jeering and chatter I saw you completely shut down because you were confronted with uncomfortable truths that you are smart enough to recognize but deluded enough to rationalize them away.
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OldSkool
Hebrew 1:1,2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Mike, it says that God has spoken in divers manners. Divers literally means "different kinds."
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/divers?q=divers
So, while I am in awe of the AV1611 and other Textus Receptus Bibles, such as Geneva, Matthews, Tyndale, et. al., and while I believe the Bible covers the gamut on salvation and knowing what it is God wants us to understand, it is NOT the end of the story and God HAS not limited himself to communicating to his creation via the Bible. In fact, there are fake Bibles, there are books that Martin Luther removed from the Prostetant Canon that shouldnt have been removed. The First Book of Enoch is missing and is directly quoted by Jesus Christ in the Gospels and in the book of Jude. Jasher and Jubilees are both referenced to give further insight on the historical details those books give. The Bible is not an exhaustive collection of every book (scroll, papyri, stone tablets, whatever) of scripture ever written. Some books have been lost. There are many Biblical Canons all over the earth and the books vary significantly. So to limit God to a book that men produced and say because it contains scripture that "THE BIBLE" is the end all be all is a serious misunderstanding of God and how he works.
BTW - You are imagining people in the Old Testament times framing scripture posters on their walls and such. Do you not understand the Mosaic Laws and the details they were to live under? Everything about them was to remind them of God and praise and worship his holy name. Their wardrobe, their feasts and celebrations, days and times of the year, weekly Sabbath, etc. While I can't authoratatively say that Moses didn't have a ministry theme poster on his tent walls I think I can pretty much guess it didnt happen and you are simply daydreaming to make your point.
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waysider
I wonder if they had black lights to go with those posters.
Maybe a little patchouli burner on the coffee table.
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OldSkool
May I coordinate refreshments?
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Rocky
I hope that was satisfactory, Oldiesman.
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Twinky
Is "the Word" written in the stars? Psalm 19:1 says
So there is a different written word. Written zillions of years ago - and still around now. You can see it every single night, unless there is cloud cover. The word written in the stars, which we must also study. Some, perhaps many, of us have read Bullinger's "The Witness of the Stars." I wondered briefly if Mike would consider that as part of the collaterals, but he probably wouldn't because it doesn't have VPW's name splattered on it. However, if vpw had pinched chunks of Witness, and published these chunks under his own name, likely Mike would thrill himself with those too.
I suggest we all take up astronomy immediately, then we can study God's Word in the original language. Never mind learning Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic; too late on the scene. If we learned astronomy, who knows, we might even discover some of those missing verses that vpw claimed must exist somewhere.
PS there are other Bible verses about the word being written in the stars, not just Ps 19:1, but that'll do for starters.
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OldSkool
I take it from Mike shutting completely down that he is here to lecture us on the merits of flappy and only wants us to return under the yoke of bondage inherent in anything wierwille. So when relevant information is introduced he can't look at it and won't discuss it because wierwille didn't verify the material....anywho...sad really...
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Charity
Just amending the above to have it say, "Feel free to correct or disagree with me any time."
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Rocky
Wonderful!
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Mike
That Deut quote does very much tell them to saturate their lives with God's Word, to the extent it was available.
Everyone knows that books were not available then, and scrolls were very expensive. But what about memorization skills? I think they did not invent paper and pencils because they were far more skilled at memorization than we are in our culture.
They also had less distractions.
Psalm 119 tells us to saturate our lives with God's Word.
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Mike
With any human, it they are trustworthy and smart, then their words will accurately reflect their will.
I use this line in witnessing all the time.
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Mike
I've spent 20 years looking at information you think I don't look at.
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waysider
Why do you think that?
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oldiesman
Got it, thx.
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So_crates
No, YOUR private interpretation (and no doubt you're echoing Saint Vic) says "Saturate your life with God's Word." The texts says, "Keep his commandments." There's a distinction.
Show me where it says "Saturate your life with God"s Word."
Everybody? Newborn babies? Three year olds? Everybody's a pretty big word. You're wrong just out of the gate.
Oh really? And scrolls weren't their version of pencil and paper?
Yah, acquiring food and water wasn't a distraction. Not to mention neighboring tribes which may want your women, food, or gold. *Sigh* The good old days.
It also says "Keep his commandments."
Show me where it says "Saturate your life with God's Word."
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
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Charity
Nathan_Jr wrote, "God's word is God's will" is a loaded, pithy phrase, insidiously designed to seduce."
vp and lcm, as supposed MOG, obviously were not trustworthy.
Being smart (or intelligent) has nothing to do with being trustworthy. It's interesting why you would say it does - it might have something to do with the fact that you often refer to the intelligence of people in twi and almost always, it's in a way to imply yours is greater than theirs. Now a sound mind does come into play since once must be of a sound mind at the time their last will and testament is written.
"I use this line" reminds me of what a guy/girl does when trying to pick someone up in a bar or something. I don't think Jesus had a line or slogan when he ministered to people. Then again, in twi, witnessing wasn't about ministering so much as it was about selling the class; hence a pickup line comes in handy.
The "God's word is God's will" slogan is everything Nathan_Jr says it is, especially when it's repeated over and over again.
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waysider
Oh, but not when I did it. I was always sincere and selfless in my intentions. /s
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Charity
I guess I could say I was too in that I sincerely believed the class would minister to them once they sat through all 12 sessions without being allowed to ask questions until the last session.
But then, asking questions at the end only meant you weren't paying enough attention the first time (as Mike often reminds us) and therefore you need to take it again. Therefore, go out and sign people up (you're a grad now after all) so there's the required number to start a new class.
I was usually excited about running fellowships (both adult and children's), teaching the Word often from the collaterals and lovingly undershepherding people, but the goal was always to have them sign up for the class and then after taking it, the "commitment to the word" stage would begin. This is pretty much how I remember it.
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OldSkool
You don't know what I think and I don't know what you've looked at.
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OldSkool
Fantasy land.
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waysider
"I use this line..."
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Nathan_Jr
God’s will is YOURwalk+YOURbeliving+TheBible+ChristInYOU.
Simple math.
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Mike
I know they have nothing to do with each other. That is why I put the word "and" between smart and trustworthy in my comment. Maybe you failed to see that word. Maybe you were blind to it; wanting to catch me in error so badly.
When BOTH trustworthiness and intelligence are both present in a person, THEN we can look at those smart trustworthy words from them, and know they accurately resemble the will of that person.
We use "their word is their will" all the time with people.
But for those whose conscience is seared with a hot hate for VPW, then they cannot see truth in "God's Word is God's Will." Their minds are blinded by hate.
We apply this simple idea all the time to people, the idea that if they are smart and trustworthy, then their word is their will.
OF COURSE it also applies to God!
God is more trustworthy and more intelligent, so it applies more to him.
The Word of God is the Will of God !
I really like the simplicity of it, and how simply it shows me who has blinded their minds with hate.
Only hate could reject "God's Word being God's will."
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OldSkool
Maybe you think that you know that you know that you know and consider yourself an expert on God....humility...God resists the proud.
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Nathan_Jr
How can you know if someone's words are trustworthy? Watch. Listen. Check. Test. Verify.
Victor paul wierwille said, "Your parents will be dead within five years."
Pay attention.
(I don't hate victor. I pity him. If I hate anything, I would hate to be him on THAT day.)
Edited by Nathan_JrGlove
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